Subspace Theory and an Origin to the Universe (Star Trek)
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2020
- Subspace is a term that gets thrown around a lot in Star Trek, but what exactly is it?
We hear it's another realm, but what are its properties? Why does warp drive rely on it and so much other faster than light technology?
Let's get some speculation going.
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Star Trek Online developed by Cryptic Studios and Perfect World.
Star Trek, Star Trek Enterprise/Voyager/Deep Space Nine/Discovery/Picard and The Next Generation are all owned and distributed by CBS.
Star Trek Films are owned and distributed by Paramount PicturesMass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 are produced by BioWare and published by EA, Microsoft Game Studios.
This Video is for critical purposes with commentary. - Hry
*Keyes:* "We were running dark, yes?"
*Cortana:* "Until we decelerated. No one could've missed the hole we tore in subspace. They were waiting for us on the far side of the planet."
Iirc Halo’s FTL works by going through eleven dimensional spacetime that’s more tangled than the relatively flat plane of real space. Travelling through the tangles at sublight speed will cover more ground than through flat space, eh?
@@joshuahadams There's a better way to explain Halo's FTL. You have two identical sheets of paper, from which each point corresponds to another. One of those sheets is crumpled into a ball. The slipspace drive is a drill for digging straight through that crumpled ball to the point you are looking for.
When you describe the omega molecule that way it almost seems like instead of destroying subspace, an omega explosion actually just adds an extra layer of "reality" over what currently exists, pushing the subspace layer out of reach. Like pouring a layer of cement over your keyboard
Or instead of destroying subspace it's renders it in a different phase. Maybe with the Mycelium network it could be fixed. A neat idea if we could explore a universe where omega particles damaged large areas of space like in the Star Trek Final Frontier cartoon universe. Add it to a fun side story in STO with a full explorable map and stories to work with. Much like how moss and fungus break down rocks to a more usable state by plants the Mycelium network is the Universe's natural curator of the subspace realm as a natural countermeasure for Omega particles.
That though transmited into me when i watched voyager first time, it was a huge misstake to destroy it
I do like the idea that subspace is just the minute infinite differences between universes. It seems like the simple yet overwhelming answer Trek would have
Still meaningless.
You could almost call them the infinite improbabilities...
annoyed707 DON’T PANIC!
I wish there was a video about all of the ships and ship classes in star trek online, that don't talk about the stats of the ships, but more of the fictional lore of the ships and their classes and variants.
The Chaos Gods laughing in the background.
Necrons: Now lets make this interesting.
@@Marinealver Necrons are more like "GET OFF MY LAWN AND STOP MAKING SO MUCH NOISE!!!"
@The Geek Is Strong Dark Eldar: Bend Over.
No windows please.
*_[WAAAAGH!!! from Gork and Mork in the distance]_*
Subspace is like onions. Onions have layers. Subspace has layers.
Damn you!!! I waited all video to come here and say that!!! 😂😂
But not everyone likes onions...
Oooooh... subspace has laaaaaayerrrrs.... Not everybody likes onions, ya know.
CAKE! Everybody loves cake!
@@TheADHDNerd i dont like cake
@@skie_games6525 How about parfait? Parfait may be the most delicious thing on the entire Earth. You ever ask somebody "hey, you want some parfait?" and they're like "I don't want no parfait."
@@sirdeadlock i dont know what that is
The "Alcubierre drive" is a theory drawing inspiration from Star Trek to create a real warp drive. It might not be subspace but it could wrap a ship in a bubble provided we get enough energy to warp spacetime. There are scientists working on it right now. In the models, they managed to decrease the amount of energy required by adjusting the geometry of the object producing the field. Right now they are trying to warp small objects.
The Alcubierre drive requires negative energy. That doesn't exist.
Hasn’t been *discovered* yet. And since -0 is still zero, maybe there’s geometry that requires practically 0 negative energy to produce.
@@davidappell3105 the theory is that it could require negative energy, the alcubierre drive effectively exploits the energy / mass relationship. we already know space-time is warped by massive objects/entities, we also know that entities with energy inherently have mass, recently it was confirmed a neutrino has mass, despite calculations suggesting it doesn't, and yet a neutrino moves at near the speed of light. this relationship is also the reason why achieving actual light speed with objects with mass is impossible, as the object speeds up, gains more energy, its mass increases exponentially, therefore the energy required also increases exponentially, tending to infinity at light speed. of course to complicate matters, space time is warped locally based on speed, an object travelling at the speed of light can travel infinite distance instantly, to the observer on board, an interesting example is take 2 spacecraft both flying towards a star 10ly away, one leaves travelling at .95c, the other waits a few years then leaves travelling at .951c, the second spacecraft arrives first and travelled less distance than the first, an no one can agree on haw far they travelled or how long it took, of course to an external observer they both took over 10 years and travelled 10ly... confusing isn't it.
the alcubierre drive gets around this problem by forming a static bubble of space time around the ship and expanding and contracting space time in front and behind the ship to 'push' it through space, since space-time can expand and contract at faster than light (big bang expansion was much faster than light). the ship never moves in local space as the bubble gets pushed through global space, therefore no matter moves faster than light and no laws of physics are broken, despite the ship appearing to the observer to move faster than light. negative energy is not explicitly required, just the theory is that it would bend space easier than needing energy equivalent to a black hole, which would create problems in itself anyway.
its an interesting concept, and there is experimentation going on with trying to create a so called 'warp field' .
@@zero_gravity5861 alternatively so much energy is needed, the calculation overflowed the data type and caused a sign error, making it look negative, but its just more than can be represented with current large many-bit data types....
The alcubierre drive is entirely theoretical. No one is warping small objects. Even with the new advances which decreased the energy requirements it was still way beyond anything we can put out
I have always thought of Sub Space as a bit of a catchall for the extra dimensions that Strings and membranes moved around. You dont have to worry about those in non FTL travel, but you do when it comes to subspace.
I always thought of subspace in relation to normal space like air and water (air is normal space, water is subspace).
It is easier to build a boat and travel on water than to build a boat and travel through the air! Going into a subspace pockets is like submerging into the water. Everyone uses boats to travel around, but the Xindi and some others used submarines.
I seem to remember that sometimes Picard had to get orders from Starfleet through a recorded subspace message, not a live communication. While it was probably actually a matter of the writer not realizing what they could do, I suspect that in-universe it was that they were too far out from settled federation space to have the live communications set up.
Yes, real time communications with a starbase are possible but only if you're within a certain range. Otherwise there is delay, which is worse the further out you go from comm buoys and such. They explain FTL comms quite well in the TNG Technical Manual. Subspace transceivers "submerge" signals into subspace where they travel at FTL speeds. Subsequent comm buoys/ships/stations will pick up these signals and use their transceivers to resubmerge signals so they keep traveling at maximum speeds. Basically think of all the Federation buoys, ships, and stations/planets as "nodes" in one big Internet. Every node is part of the system to keep things flowing at maximum speed and efficiency. Still, if you're talking about getting a message from say, Earth to Deep Space Nine, you're inevitably going to get lag and real time comms won't be possible. Without nodes to keep submerging those messages, eventually they will resurface into normal space and lose their FTL ability, and be lost. That's why Voyager just couldn't boost their power and communicate with Starfleet from the Delta Quadrant, until they found a relay network that would perform nearly the same function as their own relay network in the Federation.
Subspace is like the 7 extra dimensions of String Theory, which are curled up so tiny only subatomic particles take any heed of them. If true, they are literally a "sub-space" that could use quantum entanglement for ftl comm, transporters, etc..
Yes, and somewhat in line with the old conceptions of Burkhard Heim's theories, too - currently out of favour.
That’s pretty much how slipspace works in Halo. The Shaw-Fujikawa drives pull open a path through higher-dimensional space for the ship to fly through. The Shaw-Fujikawa drive holds the passage stable as the ship’s sublight propulsion carries it through a shortcut from point A to point B.
@@joshuahadams I always liked the Halo and Star Trek universes for that reason. Star Trek though is a bit more hand-waving, but considering when they came up with it, it’s still awesome.
You can't actually use quantum entanglement to send information. As soon as you try to alter one of the entangled particles you break the entanglement and nothing is sent.
Another great video, sir!
I have additional thoughts... First, you said 'normal' space' might be expanding into subspace and my immediate reaction was, "or it's is expanding outwards from subspace."
Second, Dilithium Crystals (and their configuration/matrix), may be the bump that the Vulcans were "holding back" in ENT. It's highly unlikely Zefram Cochrane started with any crystals, implying that basic warp-drive technology can exist without it, but at very slow speeds comparatively.
"hyper-subspace"?...
"hyper-" = "above"
"sub-" = "under"
So, "above-under-space"? I.e. ... space?...
@Alejandro Franchini There is a region of space called Ohypeo that is hyper in the middle and round at both ends.
Right now we have subspace in liner algebra as well as multi-dimensional calculation greater than 3.
Makes about as much sense as MIDAS meaning Mutura Interdimentional Subspace Array. Should be MISA!
@@mb2000 it's Mutara Interdimensional Deep space Array System (as for why it's not MIDSAS... that's not as easy to roll of the tongue)
SkyCharger001 Ah least I was close. I assumed they were doing that annoying thing where they take one word and make it two letters in the abbreviation!
I see we are going big today!
Oh, I'm sorry... I'll put some clothes on. 😇
I like how Q told them they are just scratching the surface. And that in the end it would be more then space travel but other universe's travel, dimension travel and time.
Subspace manipulation also fits with the Q and other higher powers.
That fits perfectly with the idea of subspace being a place of thought and energy. Q did talk alot about how human's "perception" of their continuum was so limited when he brought them there in voyager.
Yes, or at least, closer to that actual realm, in a very metaphysical semi Buddhist kind of way.
It could be that subspace exists as a sort of "barrier" between possibilities and eventualities. I mean, there's no real reason why cause and effect work the way they do aside from they work the way they do. Subspace or whatever reality-warping powers essentially screws around with causality because cause and effect is a foreign concept. There simply is, and if something isn't, it could be, because it is.
Ow, my head hurts.
@@BoisegangGaming forgive yourself...you/we are only 3 dimensional beings.
Speaking of that solanagen race that exists in subspace, before La Forge even concieved of his upgrades to the sensor array, Riker had possibly been getting abducted already. This is evidenced by the fact that what those being abducted had experineced, like lost time among other things, were already being encountered by Riker.
And his hair was already messy.
The DS9 novel Original Sin describes subspace in greater detail and describes subspace as the foundation of the universe. Like the ground on which the universe is built upon.
That seems to have terrible implications for the omega molecule: If its detonation destroys the foundation, does the material universe... "fall" into this newly opened sinkhole? Would omega-bombed areas eventually collapse downwards into some sort of dark void, never to be seen again? Would the universe heal over them as though they never existed in the first place?
Subspace has a certain similarity to Brane Cosmology in String Theory. In this, the universe exists as layers of branes (derived from "membrane") with a certain number of dimensions - the observable space-time for example could be a 4-dimensional brane (3 space, 1 time), or maybe the "surface" or "edge" of a higher dimensional one. Brane Cosmology suggests that gravity appears so relatively weak compared to other fundamental forces because it is not constrained to one brane, but affects all nearby ones as well. This could explain dark matter and energy, as gravity/antigravity permeating into our universe from parallel/nearby branes.
At least that's about how I understand it. This stuff is beyond complex...
Yup, and extending on that, Dark Matter is really the gravitational effect of matter on another brane that extends into our 4D brane. Dark Energy would be the potential force between the 2 or more branes causing matter on each brane to want to move away from the matter on another.
I've always thought of subspace as Star Trek's version of hyperspace; hyperspace, short for hyper-dimensional space, is the space tesseracts would occupy. It's in a direction orthogonal to the x, y, and z axis that we freely move through. Using the flatland analogy, everything in our "realm" (n-space) is on flatland and moving into subspace or hyperspace would be analogous to moving UP- off of the flatland plane.
Generally, most sci-fi universes depicts hyperspace as an empty void that allows shortcuts between two points that are hundreds of light-years apart in n-space. Star Trek, however, suggests that objects and sentient life exist in subspace.
This description of subspace reminds me of descriptions of the “Webway” from 40k. In that franchise, the Webway is described as being like a thin sheet if fabric placed on the boundary between real-space and the Immaterium. There are even denizens of the Webway (though they are not native to it): the Dark Eldar, who take great pleasure in cruelly torturing and experimenting on others.
I love the use of mathematical infinities to describe the space between universes. You highlight a neat subject in math. What is infinity? The different kinds in infinity?
This video seems to lend credence to the idea that subspace in star trek, hyperspace in star wars, and the warp in 40k is basically the same thing. The overall difference is how deep they are able to dive into it.
I’ve been thinking of writing a fanfic of where the federation are doing an experiment of deep diving into sub space physically. Which leads to humanities first contact with the warp and it’s inhabitants. After the incident is contained and covered up the disaster out event. They debate on whether research into the new found immaterium should continue. Ultimately they declare the immaterium to be a new frontier to explore with its potential for good infinite as well as its evil.
Ultimately it sets the foundations for psykers to be born into humanity through the survivors of the incident, and allows open interpretation of the fun fan head canon of 40k being star treks future.
Hyperspace often looks more like transwarp or slipstream conduits, to me. More disconnected from normal space.
I mean they're all different riffs on the same idea.
@@djcuevas1057 Please don't write that, don't turn the noblebright into the grimdark, please
@@starliner2498 Rule #43: The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
Gene Roddenberry always used science consultants in the Star-trek series.
Even though some things at the time seemed sci-fyish, they had some theoretical basis.
It could be subspace is just another dimension of regular space that bulky regular matter can't go through,
but communication can. Would you call it inter-dimensional communication or classier subspace communication.
note: It still took time for the subspace communication to be received or sent, just less time.
This delay concept in star trek allowed captains greater autonomy.
The delay concept isn't a concept. It's the core problem with communication today and apparently still in that time as well.
@@benoosthoek 5g man 5g.....is better then sub-space....it will get boring content of pop music, flat earth and kenye west even faster now soo i can cry for longer after i take a good fast look at human race....
I think my "favourite" (well, at least the one that makes me LAUGH the most) version of "subspace" is seen in Space Battleship Yamato (or "Star Blazers")...at least, the original version. I dunno about the remake.
Anyway, at one point the Yamato faces enemy spaceships emerging from subspace like they're LITERALLY _SURFACING ABOVE THE WATER_ . They appear from the top down. Subspace = space _submarines_ ! XD
The dimensional submarines?
Trying to grasp astro-physical concepts helps to suspend disbelief. It's the compelling feature of most good sci-fi. Mind-expansion
I like that kind of subspace, adds more flavor to it.
The problem with that show is that the Yamato has been found and is broken in half and is unlikely to ever become space worthy.
So, Star Trek essentially allowed for the possibility of a God-like being who could have 'thought' our universe into existence. Possible a subspace entity that is more powerful than even the Q. The Star Trek creators really knew how to cover their bases 😂.
Or some kid who thought about the Omega molecule.
There is at least one book in the ST:TNG bookverse that talks about a race more powerful than the Q - called the M I think. It's been at least a decade since I've read it so I don't remember it too well but I know the Q and M were enemies but not much either could do to the other because they somehow balanced each other.
You mean the Cosmic Koala? Because that seems like the Cosmic Koala
@@dragonprinceHP Guinan an M?
@@u_t2347 I don't believe Guinan was ever outed as an M but I read about a race more powerful than the Q called the M (I think - maybe another letter) - and the theories I've always read/seen have been that Guinan was at one time a Q but gave up her powers for some reason or don't use them and Q fears her for that for some reason.
Canon from the books is that dilithium crystals work because they vibrate chronally. That is, they vibrate both forward and backward in time, so to cut them you have to do it twice: once before the moment of cutting and once after, with the two fractures meeting in the middle. This would seem to imply that subspace is not a physical dimension but a _chronal_ dimension, and that FTL is possible because time doesn't work the same way there.
I was under the impression that dilithium was not used in the creation of a warp bubble, but was used to regulate the reaction of matter and antimatter to produce usable energy.
So in other words, you cant cut dilithium crystals... right? How can you cut something just before and after you cut it?
@@kurtr1181 You use self-sealing stem bolts.
@@aleistergein114 I can only tell you what I got from the books, which are not necessarily canon to the shows and movies. According to the books, dilithium crystals have to be used to transform the energy produced by the matter/antimatter reaction into a form which the warp engines can use to produce the warp bubble.
The reason given is that dilithium crystals vibrate in time rather than space.
@@kurtr1181 The way they put it in the books, you have to hit the crystal, then wait for the crystal to crack, then wait a period equal to the time between your first hit and the crack to hit it again.
They don't say what happens if you _don't_ hit it again, but presumably the crystal doesn't have cracked properly... to use confusing time travel tenses.
So helpful. I just finished all the Stargate and this is the kind of thing I’m wondering!
Wow, this conversation got super deep and blew my mind when you mentioned subspace being the space that existed before the big bang and what our universe is expanding into.
Oh, I know this one! Subspace is a state of euphoric lassitude which can occur during or after BDSM play that-
Why are you looking at me like that?
So all this time were been getting it wrong? It's not warp factor, it's WHIP factor.
Kirk " more speed Scotty "
Scotty " she canna take any more captain! Any more and she'll come apart! "
Kirk " dammit Scotty override the safewords and give her everything you've got, I way MORE "
It makes so much sense now.
Can't stop laughing. ...
Best answer
i.imgur.com/D79I8sb.jpg
(recaptioned screencap)
@@epiendless1128 OMG that's hilarious
A hidden realm of strange creatures and broken physics? Subspace = The Warp confirmed.
The Emperor Protects!
Let's get some Omega molecules and stick it to Chaos! FOR THE EMPEROOOR!
@@CharlesUrban Actually, what would happen if an omega molecule were to detonate in the warp? Complete annihilation? A minor inconvenience? Maybe nothing at all?
legend has it if you listen close...you will hear the laughing of Thirsting Gods....
@@khaosgaming6826 Are you refering to the Q?
Subspace is actually Startreks version Hyperspace. They're functionally the same thing. One of the reasons hyperspace in other scifi require beacons, corridors etc to navigate is because sub/hyperspace is distorted to the real worlds and you wont know where you are in relation to it without beacons. Even the borg subspace 'corridors' fall into this problem hence their ships having to use warp speed to reach a place the first time but once a beacon is placed they can use subspace to go back and forth. . Since warp only partially impacts in subspace the ship can see or scan their location in reality while still benifiting from the reduced restrictions our world has against ftl travel.
"This or that is boring, nothing interesting at all happening either place. It's at the interface all the fun stuff happens, isn't it. The possibilities at the interface are endless. This is where the mage's mind must live."
- Frizzil "Sooty" Frostfire, Aerothian physicist.
And TNG REALLY liked touching on realms of thought and energy too, early on.
Message from the Admiralty: The Omega Directive has been suspended for this video.
50 Omega warheads have been prepared under the scope of this video. Each contains 2 molecules and is about as stable as a 21st century antimatter container, but will fail if a diagnostic is run.
...due to it being a 21st century video long before the Omega accident.
My sci-fi universe has subspace act a similar way in that it's a "lower level" of reality, but the objects inside of it are created not from baryons but from a wave-particle-thing originally nicknamed Nadions" by the discoverers as a joke that just caught on. Subspace is continuously expanding, making it a part of what we would currently classify as "dark energy". It wraps around the Grid(a universe's core/nucleus), which is a one-to-two dimensional singularity. In this case, subspace could be described as being 2.5-dimensional.
Fascinating! I really like this.
Not physical at all, just make believe.
@@davidappell3105 Yes. That's why its called "Fiction".
@@BoisegangGaming A very interesting take on it, from what I can see, too - neat.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Thanks! Of course, the universe does have a little bit of a twist on this: The framing device is that pretty much everything the reader sees are recovered fragments of histories and myths and facts and fiction, so even in-universe the nature of how the Universe is composed is up to debate. The framing device takes place quite a long ways into the future, where the stars have all turned into black holes or iron stars, with civilizations having resorted to inhabiting a different substrate of matter as entropy begins to break reality down. Reality for the most part has broken down into "sediment", where the upper("Hyperspace") and lower("Subspace") dimensions sort of just kind of reached a state of equilibrium where they don't really exist anymore, and there's doubt that it ever did and was just essentially in-universe plot devices for storytellers.
That part was inspired mostly by Isaac Arthur's "Civilizations at the end of time" video series and my own experience reading old epics like the Odyssey and the Epic of Giglamesh for a college course. It's a very meta take on sci-fi and its role.
Subspace communication is a form of entanglement communication that hasn't been discovered yet.
Well, even in the real world. We have figured out how to do Quantum Communication. Now it is not easy and the process is very power hungry. Yet it was done. Once. And it is being furthered studied. So we are getting there. Coming to the point able to have two anchor points and able to just send information that is literally real time across the span of a solar system.....once we get off this rock.
At least from what we understand now, quantum entanglement can't be used to send or recieve information. But perhaps if it was done in subspace, it would actually work. Who knows.
Because something was once unknown doesn't mean everything unknown is possible -- that's a major logical error.
If you refer to the concept of quantum entanglement, then I must disagree...
quantum entanglement refers to the use of two particles that are linked at the quantum level. It is theorized that any energy or change applied to either of the particles would instantaneously result in the same change or energy output from its counterpart. The major difference here being,
That's quantum entanglement would result in an instantaneous communication medium regardless of the distance between the two parties. Meanwhile, Subspace,
Subspace is just the Chaos Gods playing a little with the materium.
@randomdoodification Q is a chaos god in my new headcanon
It reminds me more of how the Webway is described (as a thin, satin veil laid between the Materium and Immaterium). Except unlike the Webway, things in normal space don’t usually enter subspace in order to interact with it and go FTL.
Praise Khorne
I tip my cup of Yorkshire to you my good sir
@randomdoodification a species similar to humans they were seeded by the ancestors
About the alternate universe: yes and no.
Think of dimensions like radio frequencies or wi-fi signals. They coexist in the same place at the same time. The observer's focus and perception changes which connections they make and pick up on. So to travel between dimensions, you don't have to punch a hole in space or travel to the other end of the universe; you're already here and you're already in it, it's just that you're on the wrong wavelength if you were aiming for a different dimension.
You're right, we needn't to punch some traversable wormholes as she simply method to trans-dimensional travel, that's only recommended when travel journey is too long to throughout galactic magnetic bubbles or distance.
I love how star trek had so much thought put into it, they made sure everything followed a set of laws of physics
I like to think that subspace is also what Hyperdrives from Star Wars tap into when they go FTL. These routes exist but are hidden and have been mapped out for thousands of years, as opposed to FTL travel in Trek where you point and go and warp space in that direction
they are all impossible, imaginary, sci-fi, fiction only
@@davidappell3105 let people enjoy things party pooper
@@davidappell3105 Then why are you here, commenting, if you don't like the topic?
You keep producing one kick ass video after another - with top notch sense for topics. Much obliged, thanks for all the hours upon hours of excellent content and keep up the great work✨🙌🏼‼️
If you remember the Original Series, most times communication with a Starbase or Starfleet Command would take weeks or even months. Some writers did forget this, however.
Perhaps they were exploring regions where transmission relays had not yet been set up
If the Alcubierre White Drive actually does pan out, spacetime defamation should be measured in Cochranes.
Can we fold the psychic powers of the Vulcans, Betazoids, Talosians and others into the subspace concept? Some sort of biological structure coupled with mental training that is able to access subspace and translate the energy of mind (thoughts and emotions) into tangible, readable things? A unified theory of everything for Star Trek.
Great video! Keep up what you’re doing 💜
I personally use a form of quantum entanglement principles for instantaneous communication, regardless the physical distance
As do I, it comes in handy when visiting other dimensions, times and realities to be in instant contact with my base on Earth.
Stargate series has a similar concept in which their ships hyper drive engines open a window into subspace to use for faster than light travel(Destiny from SGU being the exception).
Other authors have used the subspace concept in stories \ series. Ms L'engle's Wrinkle in Time series, as well as DC Comics & Marvel series storylines.
The ships used in Stargate are hyperdrive not warp totally different concept and they don’t actually work in sub space because it is too slow to run that is why now so he’s even said that hyperdrive is the better means of travel through space and add a lower power utilization
Star Trek's Warp drive always appealed to me more that Star Wars' hyperdrive. Even if it's all made up techno babble, I much prefer an FTL tech that actually travels through real space rather than entering a whole other dimension. When I realized warp was enabled by subspace, a whole other dimension (or, sub dimension of this one), I couldn't be quite so snooty about it. But, ultimately the harsh mistress of real world physics requires some sort of made up fictional element of the universe if you want a story with FTL.
This is why I hated SW Episode 8 TLJ. Hyperspace is its own dimension apart from real space. One of the few things, if not the only thing, to interact with hyperspace is gravity. Massive gravity wells generated by specialized ships or planetary objects. Gravity can tear a ship apart in Hyperspace or trigger an emergency hyperspace exit, which could be inside a star or lead to a sudden and horrific crash into a planet. The Mon Cala crusier in TLJ should have passed right through the First Order ships. Instead they collided in a brilliant display. If that were true, ships would be shredded by any space dust or debris around them every time they accelerates past light speedy. It is illogical. It would give Spock a brain aneurysm.
@@LancetFencing Not to mention that ST torpedoes have in built warp and smart tracking capability. A ST ship could just fire a few salvos of quantums from a few systems over and destroy a SW ship before it even knew what was coming.
What I never understood in Startrek Tech is this. That the warp engine is on, a warp bubble is created, which causes the ship to move. But when a phaser is used while at warp, the beam would deviate in the opposite direction of the ship, when leaving the warp bubble. The phaser is no longer in subspace, it is in normal space.
This assumes that phasers are warped. But, if a ship needs big warp nacelle in order to warp space, how does a phaser do that?
Apart form this I also believe that the Heissenberg compensators in transporter systems, are warped. They take their measurements in subspace, to make a transport possible.
That makes a lot of sense, actually, provided much shortcuts. We know subspace applications were made widely available, early on. Recent novels treat the compensators as a bit like condensates, though (Bose Einstein ones)
Interesting idea. You made more 'sense' out if it then I figured could be. Nicely done.
i asked for a video explaining sub-space a few videos back and here it is, while im 100% sure it had nothing to do with my request im going to pretend like it did and thank you for the video :)
Bear with me, I am going to "nerd out" big-time, here, for a moment.
Delving into actual quantum mechanics, and also, ironically, string theory, we find actual mention of concepts of both Subspace and Hyperspace theory. Such imperceptible layering of our physical universe seems, at the least, to be accepted as near-to-fact.
However, Star Trek utilizes only Subspace theory, for both Federation and non-Federation races, as being the only solution for FTL applications. Starfleet has never encountered a race whose study and advancement branches off favouring Hyperspace utilisation instead.
On the other hand, in Star wars, George Lucas explores only the use of hyperspace for FTL and makes no mention of any studies into Subspace theory. Within the Star wars universe, we see that travel through hyperspace seems much slower in comparison to the Star trek universes Subspace. 1.5c (the maximum cruising velocity of the Millennium Falcon) seems to be considered as a fairly reasonable cruising velocity. Also, hyperspace travel seems to be limited to narrow corridors, most likely consisting of areas of space least affected by gravitational fields. Travel from one system to another often requires more than one "hyperspace jump," as multiple pre-existing corridors are utilised.
Granted, all of this is only fiction and fantasy. But seeing as how both hyper space and Subspace are thought to exist, I should be very interested in a video comparing the two in layman's terms.
The .5 rating of the millennium falcon doesn't mean it travels at 1.5c
And considering the distances involved, it's safe to say that _Star Wars_ hyperdrives are _much_ faster than _Star Trek_ warp drives. How fast is arguable, but it doesn't take a wormhole or decades to cross the GFFY, and it's generally understood to be similar in size to the Milky Way.
Also, string 'theory.' To be a theory it has to explain something the old theories don't, and make a falsifiable prediction that then checks out. The string hypothesis hasn't done this in the decades since it was put forth. Mind, it hasn't been disproven, either, but throwing thousands of man-hours and millions of dollars at a hypothesis still doesn't make it a theory.
@@boobah5643 NEVER take the point 5 statement as literal. The galaxy could be crossed in weeks, in the films, and in new ones, in HOURS even.
I love how you make like science the fictitious universe of Star Trek. It's so interesting!!!
Thanks for covering this! I've always wondered about subspace. So many more questions....
I understood some of those words
I was lost after “Hi, Rick here...”
Me too! We’re smart.
LJTwiggy We look for things. Things that make us go.
Our uniforms are definitely not gold.
Also helps if one uses their imagination.
Think that is the purpose of science fiction - for the reader in to fill in the gaps
Perhaps....
Remember, nuclear and hydrogen bombs and missiles were the stuff of fiction 100 years ago...
The next 100 years already seems longer
Gundam is older than smartphones. Our imagination is longer than our reach.
only they were not... ot A-bombs/H-bombs etc.... rockets, yess(?), but these were clearly outside of our imagination
They say Gene Roddenberry was the new Jules Verne.
I dont remeber classical fiction predicting a bomb that can destroy an entire city.
I feel like this was directed at a comment thread we had a few weeks ago. Thanks for clearing things up.
That idea of definite space expanding into indeterminate subspace sounds like some crazy cool stuff. Almost makes me think of the infinite improbability drive from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
Thanks Rick, you have made another classic which we can watch over and over 😀
"Hyper Subspace." Hyper is above. Sub is below. I guess, hyper subspace would be... space?
It could also mean Greater Subspace.
The "hyper" applies to the "subspace message" - meaning a subspace message that has been overcharged.
subspace is explained as many layers and "sub" could just be a general term in relation to our dimension.
General subspace
Hyper is above that (but still sub space to our own)
Hypo is below.
Let's hope star trek never crosses over with warhammer 40k becouse going to "warp" has a far more terrifying implication
I have come across a few cross over fan fictions that have usually placed Astartes in the Star Trek universe and have described that Warp travel within the Star Trek universe is like sailing on a plate of glass because it is so smooth compared to the normal 40k experience.
I have only read one rather short story of the inverse that led to Picard making face to face contact with a Khornate berserker.
Then Picard really would have to worship Q as a god. 🙄
@@Hybris51129 so I guess the Astartes find the warp in Star Trek a reprieve from the usual?
I like how seriously you approach these topics! They should hire you as lore consultant.
There's a line in DS9 where the group of geniuses that had the same procedure as Bashir (I don't know what to call them) determine that the cosmological constant is too weak and the universe will collapse into itself in a few trillion years. There solution is to utilize thousands of subspace generators to compensate.
This could imply that subspace is the source of dark energy or the energies of empty space, tying it into known but not understood phenomenon.
Subspace could be the quantum mechanics dimensions we can't perceive. We have our 3 visible spacial dimensions xyz and the linear (mostly) dimension of time, but theoretically there are additional spacial dimensions that we can't see.
quantum mechanics uses the same dimensions you see before you right now
You're thinking of string theory I think. That's the only one I'm familiar with that says there's more than 3 spacial dimensions.
If you want subspace, take Linear Algebra.
Keep in mind you have to understand calculus first.
@@WildBluntHickok You're right, it's string theory with the extra dimensions.
Hey, have you ever noticed that the particles behind Picard at the edge of the Universe look remarkably similar to Omega? What if.......
Oh boy
REDACTED!
ЯЕDАСТЕD
It's like the Minecraft nether, where distances are 1/8th
And the nether happens to be dimension -1.
@@user2C47 So would subspace fill the dimensions inbetween?
A realm shaped by thought that can also be used for faster than light travel, called "warp"?
Oh no.
Star Trek predates Warhammer by like 20 years, sooo who really influenced who? lol
Thank's Rick, that was interesting and fun.
I always thought of subspace as like the Circle size circumference paradox solution. It is a region of outerspace that is much smaller in distance than actual outerspace. But it's points of location correspond to mirror points in regular space. And you use some kind of phasing energy to push matter from it's corresponding subspace, into a new location in subspace also moving the matter through regular space but much faster.
It's like, instead of moving the cherry picker from one tree to the next, you just drive a few feet and that moves the cherry picker faster as the truck can move through space faster than the cherry picker controls.
I always thought of subspace like the mantle and the physical universe like the crust floating on top.
I figure subspace is the dimension that the universe is expanding into, which is why ships in it can reach speeds far exceeding the speed of light.
I had heard that subspace provided a 'preferred' frame of reference that would be needed for ftl travel that didn't create time travel problems. Not it doesn't matter HOW you get from point a to point b faster than c in normal space, only that you can. Wormholes and space warps and hyperdrive and pixie dust are all the same for this.
I’ve seen a few of your videos previously, but this one made me subscribe. Very well explained. You mentioned why sleeker designs of later ships, but doesn’t a deflector array mean your ship can be any shape like a borg cube? I ask because I once said I liked the sleeker shape of the Enterprise D and a friend of mine said aerodynamics don’t matter in space. Unless you mean that sub space particles can’t be affected by deflectors.
Can and should be for efficiency or power usage purposes are two different things. Borg simply don't care because their ships are so advanced and so powerful, that a shape like a cube that is less efficient for warp field purposes, is fine.
Maybe subspace is what allowed Benny Russel’s imaginative writings to come alive. His writings began as ideas and thoughts. He could have had a similar ability like Wesley but unfortunately for Benny it drove him mad when he himself couldn’t live in that future in the present.
We perceive four dimensions. You have the dimension of length, the first dimension, a single line. If you draw a line perpendicular to that dimension you get a second dimension: width, a single plane. If you draw a line perpendicular to the plane you get a third dimension: height: a volume. We also have a dimension called "time" and how that interrelates to the other three is what General Relativity is all about. But (this is the part that's hard to wrap you mind around because we can't see it - I recommend the books "Flatland" and "Sphereland" by Dionys Burger) what if you could draw a line "perpendicular" to that volume and you would have a NEW dimension of space? (Or another line perpendicular to those to create another dimension of space?)
You could warp a single line into a curve. The one dimensional beings living along that line would not perceive that warping, but it would be obvious to someone in the plane your curve was distorted into. You could distort that plane into a curved shape (say a sphere). The two dimensional beings living on that plane would not perceive that curvature (except super precise measurements of triangles would show that angles adding up to 180.0002 degrees and things like that), but a being outside that plane could see it obviously. Now, we know that our third-dimensional space and time also warps. Gravity warps it. But into which dimension does gravity curve the volume (length/width/height) and time of our universe?
"Subspace" is the catch-all term for those extra-dimensions of space/time beyond or below the four perceived dimensions of length, width, height, and time (because maybe our first, second, and third dimensions aren't actually the first, second, and third but the seventh, eighth, and ninth, or something). Understand, when I use the term "dimension" I'm not talking about alternate universes, here, (which is a whole other subject) but dimensions extra to length, width, height, and time. Current String theory proposes anywhere from 7-11 dimensions beyond the initial 4 that we perceive. It is the dimension(s) into which the warp drive warps the four dimensions of visible space/time. One of the differences between the different species is that their warp drives all warp space into different dimensions.
Some of those extra dimensions may be curled up around themselves at the center of the universe, others may be curled or knotted, like extra-dimensional stitches, along the fabric of space/time (hence Geordi's honeycomb description). Different string theory physicists have proposed different ideas. Some of those dimensions may interact like our "first, second, and third" dimensions to create something akin to, but not entire like, the volume we perceive in the three dimensions we move around in. But they're still part of our universe and objects with gravity in the basic three dimensions still distort them the way they distort the three dimensions we perceive. Some may move around constantly (like that nexus thing in Generations). Some may interact with all the others in a similar way that time does (but at this point we're blowing out my mind). And, of course, you have the mystery of how the Mind and Thought may interact with some of these dimensions.
So, subspace is about extra dimensions to the four dimensions (length, width, height, and time) of space/time we perceive (not "dimensions" as in alternate universes) and how they interact with the four dimensions that we can perceive to circumvent that annoying universal "c" speed limit General Relativity imposes on all matter.
Thank you. Explains a lot.
Really enjoyed this one. Thanks Rick.
EXCELLENT!!
Actually if you are going to get into Aleph mathematics you could retcon subspace as one of an infinite number of layers in between normal space and hyperspace thus making it a sub layer of hyperspace and thus part of the infinity between normal space and hyperspace. Thus then the name subspace...
weirdly or coincidentally i just watched something that would explain subspace, time crystals, basically imagine a line of 10 atoms, every 10th atom is entangled together signals can bounce between a start and finish nearly instantaneously, so the relay is a network of entangled emitters, transmitters and receivers, using the naturally entangled particle remnants from the big bang
I always imagined it to be lite a hyper dimensional cube where a distance in subspace is alot smaller between 2 points than it is in regular space, altho both travel the same distance one is significantly faster in transferring information, any movement in space is moving in subspace, but if you can manipulate subspace the effects magnify into real space, making small inputs massive outputs, and giving the universe faster than light travel.
Subspace, and Subtime are both concepts Star Trek did go into detail with in it's engineering and encyclopedias during the TNG DS9 VOY eras.
The novels even went into detail as to what happens when you send matter out of phase with the rest of the known universe.
When matter steps out of phase, it also steps out of time. Both happen at the same time because time is the illusion of space, matter, and gravity.
When they went after the beings going back in time to harvest the sick for neurochemical energy, they went out of phase especially but it also forced them out of phase temporally.
We're only just now beginning to see what's happening in these situations, the spooky activity from a distance that's recently been proven that was mentioned by einstein is part of the subspace structure. It's why information from one particle can appear in another unrelated particle at any distance. Subspace has a shorter distance.
As far as I remember, subspace is how communications is able to function across vast distances, as for the "Warp drives", that is not dimension-hopping like say Star Wars or Stargate is for ships, rather, "warp drive" is basically an Alcubierre drive for warping local space around it, the ship not actually moving, space around the ship is bent so that the ship is from an observers viewpoint moving from point A to point B, then in Star Trek there's the deflector dish and misc. technology to form a shielding bubble around the ship to avoid getting hit by even the smallest particles in the ship's "path", a danger in theory possibly as damaging as.. damage.. could be..
I'm pretty sure it was Bertrand Russell who posited the existence of the idea of a "Dimension of pure thought"...and if you think about it in a certain way it makes sense. In our reality of euclidean space it's impossible to represent a triangle with only three sides, because we live in Three dimensional space they are always going to have at least eight. However in a dimension of pure thought they can have three and only three. The concept can be realized there and made use of but can't exist in that form here.
Fantastic love it - good stuff on the subject.
Current real world warp theory requires lots of energy + negative mass. Since negative mass doesn't exist (as far as we know), I like to think that the nacelles "dig" into subspace which DOES have negative mass. Then the warp coils bend space time, etc. etc.
Basically everything else you said would still apply, including the subspace "drag" and such.
So it's like a homes carpeting with the padding layer underneath. We interact with the top layer (space) yet there is the padding below (subspace) that the carpet sits on top of. If you could fold or stretch the padding, the carpet itself would also be moved. If you were able to sink through the carpet and travel inside the padding itself, you'd be bypassing the carpet altogether. The foam padding could be considered to be another dimension entirely. Parallel to ours but completely different.
I was under the impression that Voyager could send a message to Starfleet, but subspace has limits on how fast it is...so it would take decades to get there and back. This was expressed in TOS as a message taking time to get to and from Statfleet...usually several hours or a couple of days.
Statfleet
The way I usually think about it is based on the way curved spacetime in general relativity is usually explained: for 2d examples, you can imagine "2d spacetime" as being a sheet that you can bend and deform; visualizing these deformations requires a third dimension but the point is that this extra dimension doesn't *need* to be there for this to work mathematically. I think it would make sense if subspace was something similar but for actual spacetime; our spacetime is essentially a higher-dimensional "curved sheet" embedded in another space with even more dimensions.
Excellent work. We will be examining the quantum mechanics of subspace at the York University AIHive Quantum Computing Meetup Hub launching July 2020, a Star Trek technology development shop in disguise.
Actually there were a number of descriptions, one I brought up right away!
Subspace is catch-all term for any part of reality not in contiguous, obvious contact with our own.
The thing you described about space between universes wouldn't that be interphasic space? At least it is said that when the USS Defiant (TOS not DS9) travelled to the mirror universe, it passed through interphasic space, the space between universes. And that made the crew go mad. However, subspace doesn't seem to do that, there's more than one instance of characters entering and exiting subspace without succumbing to madness. I used to think subspace was a property inherent to one universe, so every universe has its own subspace. But now you have the mycilium which exists in subspace and seems to connect all universes. So who knows.
At a guess: Subspace is the next 'verse layer 'up'- or the multiverse. That'd make regular space its own layer of subspace, while also turning warp travel's mechanics essentially being a manipulation of subspace's/the multiverse's extra non-time dimensions on the current universe, by capitalizing on its less-restrictive physics.
It'd also make time travel a form of physical-distance travel by making the past a physical location in multiversal space (Lending to one of voyager's episodes), and alternate/evil universes the opposite point in a circle- rather than the other end of a line (Bypassing the need to drop physical dimensions and lending to the 'infinite honeycomb' description).
Next up... the LCARS interface!
Subspace should really require a preface regarding the earlier sci-fi concept of "hyperspace," as subspace is in many ways Gene and Co.'s attempts at adapting hyperspace theory to Trek in such a way that liberates them from any prior story's attempts at defining hyperspace.
However, I would argue that subspace *is* a different dimension; it clearly operates with more than our current 4 dimensions (X, Y, Z, and Time), and as said in the video, it possesses qualities we can't perceive with our conventional senses, as we are four-dimensional beings. In fact, subspace has to be another dimension in order for it to work.
A key thing that must be noted is that subspace doesn't permit true FTL speed, it only seems as it does, owing to the hyperspace theory which involves "folding space," generally speaking, what's really going on is that warp allows on to enter in between normal space and travel a shorter distance beyond normal space, and exit back out into another part of it. You aren't actually traveling faster than light, you're just skipping through space by entering into a different dimension temporarily; light within a warp bubble still travels faster than anything else in the bubble (save for tachyons), as we see aboard starships traveling at warp. This means the ships are not moving faster than light, but simply skirting through dimensions that allows it to operate on a different spacetime than in normal space.
Obviously the characters do say they're moving faster than light, but this can be more casual speak than truly technical verbiage; they've entered into subspace, and thus they're moving at a faster spacetime than light moves in normal space, but as said, light within their spacetime is still moving faster than everything else (barring possible tachyons).
I used to think of sub space as analogous to the upper and lower side bands that are part of radio communication, in that the primary frequency being used by a radio transceiver, the carrier wave is negated leaving a single side band wave that is more efficient than the original AM carrier wave and can transmit as far using less power...or if running at the same power as the original carrier, transmit farther. It allows greater distance transmission at the same power as the original carrier because it does not require its power to be used to maintain the carrier. In a way I see it analogous to warp drive and subspace. The energy required to accelerate a ship to some percentage of c can be used in warp drive through subspace integration to effectively attain Supraluminal speeds.
Now with other Star Trek tech, all one has to do is take an ordinary science or engineer term and affix the prefix “quantum” and just like that the former mundane tech is now magnitudes of capability greater than it was originally and is the stuff of space wizards.
The word is needed to describe a spacetime w/VIRTUAL dimensions. The notion stems from the idea that space has no innate structure--it can merely be represented by either a single (one dimensional) continuum, or a multidimensional (Lorentzian) manifold or Hilbert space, and whatever points that exist that are outside of the manifold you use for your representation are within subspace (i. e. the points, tho outside your chosen "normal" space, are still contained within the space consisting of those extra virtual dimensions). That's it :)
In simple terms, subspace is an n-dimensional tunnel between one point in the universe and another. A vessel can travel through this tunnel in a matter of minutes, making a journey that might otherwise take decades or even centuries at light speed. ~Decent Freespace
Nope
@@davidappell3105 Yep. wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Subspace
Very interesting theories, Rick. I like your idea about infinite timelines and Janeway 1 and Janeway 2 and an infinite number of Janeway 1.2, 1.3, and so on. Also your idea about sub space being the medium that the Big Bang is expanding into is intriguing, as is your ideas about the Traveller. I also immediately thought of Trilian and the Q of course and all the other “gods” Trek comes up with (imagine if the Prophets of Bajor and the Gods of Olympus were the same and one half went to Earth and one half lived in a wormhole but that’s how they know about earth to drop the Sisko off there…) sorry got side tracked but it’s a very interesting idea. I’d love to see you follow up more on the science of Trek and maybe even expand into the morality or spirituality of trek. I mean are we sure that the transporter didn’t kill Worf every time and run off a copy and does that mean that there are five dozen Worfs in Grethor because I’m sure disolved by transporter doesn’t count as honourably death… idk.
When showing images of Zefram Cochrane I wish that Doctor Cochrane(Glenn Corbett) from Metamorphosis was used as well. And a cannon connection to Jacqueline Cochran would be phenomenal!