How to Win Commander Games Without Combos
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- How can you win Commander games without using combos? We've got your answers! We're offering TONS of options for how to win EDH games without those pesky infinite combos!
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I have heard of this elusive combats phase creatures turn sideways and assign damage based on Power. Never seen it used before but I’m told it interacts with the life total which I assumed exist to nerf Necropotence into only being able to draw you 40 cards.
Nah bro, it’s a myth. If it exists I would have seen it. I think maybe somebody played a game against Godo, Narset, Najeela, or Winota and they misinterpreted what happened and why.
Nobody talks about it, but all creatures have an activated ability of "Tap: this creature deals damage to target player. Activate only as a sorcery and only if that player controls no untapped creatures."
@@NitpickingNerds 10/10
You joke, I went 7 turns earlier not able to use Necropotence/draw because someone had Erebos, God of the Dead out and I couldn't gain life from looping Gray Merchant every turn.
@@NitpickingNerds you're right, it's in the oracle text
Hi! This is my lil sister's birthday! I got her into mtg this year, and this was THE most time we spent together since she was born! Love the game and love the community!
Same thing with my brother got him into the game and now he’s addicted definitely feel where your coming from have fun making decks 🙏👏👏👏
Wholesome
Appreciate you, tell her happy birthday from the NN! Magic is one of the best ways to connect with other people :D
For Mass reanimation, I think Eerie Ultimatum deserves a shoutout! 7 mana to get every *permanent* back into play is insanely efficient
LOL I love how Postie is buying joe cherries a cedh deck
Shhhh 😄
I feel like this video was made just for me. I don’t play infinite combos cuz I don’t find it to be fun to pilot. I don’t care if others like to play that way but it’s nice to have a little spotlight on win cons that don’t involve infinite combos.
Super glad it was helpful for you!
I agree completely... although I am not against the win out of nowhere cards like old school insurrection, rise of the dark realms, expropriate, etc... because you still have to actually construct the board to be in a state that wins you the game... you have to sculpt that.... nothing like counterspelling a board wipe the turn before you play insurrection
I really like kindred summons in elf decks. You either hit fierce empath and find an overrun effect or you just win by having all your elves played out at instant speed. Its also really effective in any deck running a bunch of tribal lords.
Ooh, this is gonna be a good episode. A lot of people I know claim that combos are the only way to play magic, and it's really annoying. Might have to send them this video.
Gonna say that the Moxfield ad is at 28:00
Big facts alot of them usually the ones who scoop or quit the game too when you stop their combo 🤣
I watch most of your videos and love this topic as that's my preferred play style as well. Look forward to seeing more focus like this on non combo ideas in future videos. You guys are awesome!
A nice tech for mass reanimator decks is Mogis's Marauder. If you're bringing back a bunch of your stuff, a lot of the stuff in black that's worth reanimating has double black pips anyway, so if you bring back non-black stuff, you can give it all haste and some evasion with intimidate. It's not as reliable as flying, but it can still get through non-black decks, since Sad Robot has started seeing far less play these days.
Came here to say this. That card is great with mad reanimate.
My Chatterfang deck plays so many of the suggested cards lol It has an absurd amount of win conditions. I can win with overrun effects, drains, and commander damage. I can’t get enough games with it. So much fun.
I’ve honestly been looking for content on this topic, but haven’t been able to find any before today, thanks for the great video!
Super glad you found it!
I love this. Just recently starting playing at an LGS, everyone in the pod I was in was popping off... and I felt out of place lol
Sounds like you were out of place, or at least that you were unprepared for the meta.
I don't understand why some magic players are so bothered by combos. You spent 5 turns assembling your combat win con. I spent 5 turns assembling my infinite zombie aristocrat combo with Wilhelt and Poppet stitcher combo that's reliant on my commander, a sac outlet, a payoff, and for poppet stitcher and 3 zombie tokens each needing to survive a whole table rotation before it can flip on my upkeep.
I get why a 2 card 3 mana combo like Thoracle Consultation is cheesy, but something that requires like 10 mana and 3+ cards shouldn't be as unwelcomed.
No one was bothered lol
It was my first time playing at an lgs in a commander pod. Did I lose the first couple games...sure. I had fun tho and continue to go back...
@@Fausto_4841 Combo is a rude awakening for newer players who don’t know that much about the game, and don’t realize that there are a lot of ways to win the game that don’t involve turning cards sideways. For people who are used to playing smaller formats, it’s maybe less of a surprise, but it still feels bad when you assemble a very heavy hitting board and you fight for board presence only to lose to the guy who started the turn with practically zero board and a 15 minute turn. Not a great feeling. I say this as a guy who plays 2 decks that really don’t intend on interacting with the opponent to win. I actually think that my thoracle deck is more welcome at most tables than my long ass combo deck, because at least thoracle wins on the spot.
When I first started I just sat there while they combo off having no clue what was going on. I was just taking their word for it lol
I don't like combos, because they force everyone into an awkward spot of deckbuilding.
Other than that, as long as you are playing with people who are ok with it, go ahead.
Simic ascendancy with the new Tyranid cards sounds like a fun synergy
This is exactly the video I was looking for, great content!
Super easy!
Just play stax and wait for everyone to concede.
sounds just as cool as not showering for a month and waiting for everyone to die from asphyxiation.
Boooo 😂
This was a great episode. I got a bunch of new ideas for a few decks I have. I’ve been jotting down cards the whole episode ha
Sweet, that’s great to hear!
First non-combo is basically a combo, all overruns are a combo with any big enough unanswered boardstate and do the exact same thing any critical mass combo does. I suspect that some of these would still leave casual players upset.
I think i can win in nearly all these ways with my lowest power deck as i have at least a card of each kind in the deck other than turns, but a lot of the thousand cuts payoffs build into a critical mass combo.
What you describe there is called synergy. Cards working well together and benefiting off each other. The NN started to spread the term critical mass combo and now everybody uses it without much knowing what it is. But it was and still is just good ole synergy.
@@PraetorGix i'm aware of synergy, but to a casual player a craterhoof is just a one card combo with your boardstate. My point was made tongue in cheek as we'd all be better off simply playing better and talking about what turn we expect to play to or how long the game will take.
Maze's End got stronger now that you can do it with fewer colors. My Muldrotha Maze's End deck is legitimately one of my favorite decks to play.
How am I supposed to pubstomp my opponents without combos…what an interesting dilemma. 😂 Great video as always!
genuinely cool video- people winning commander games like this is way more entertaining that a+b= win. i swore off blue green extra turns decks after winning a few times with them because its no fun for anyone at the table, especially for me if those people are my friends who traveled to a venue to play magic with me on their off time
An intersting Deck being able to win comboless is Karlch flaming fist. Can be build really strong for higher power with stax or for casual with big beater
Glaring spotlight and throne of the god pharaoh are two of my favorite non combo win conditions.
Honestly winning with combat efficiently in commander is essentially a combo too.
You just need to combo your attacks correctly.
My wife once case Genesis Wave for x=71 in with Klauth and definitely won on the spot
OFF RIP opponents
Two more great overrun effects: Beastmaster Ascension and Jetmir. Jetmir just does silly damage in a tokens deck!
One of my favorite, mass pump spells has become Ritual of Hope. It's easily +2/+1 at instant speed for 1w. Ritual costs only a few cents, giving you a lot of bang for your buck.
Two more mass reanimation cards are Twitlight's Call and Immortal Servitude. They're both under a dollar and strong in their own respects.
Great vidéo for a vast majority of players! Love the living death play!
Test of Endurance seems like a pretty easy alternate win-con to pull off on Commander.
Hey guys ive been waiting for a vid like this one for a minute. I was wondering though if your not making infinite mana is ezuri still the best elfball commander?
A cool win I had was kicking Rite of Replication on Massacre Worm! All opponents' creatures got -10/-10 and each opponent lost 12 life for each creature that they had die. Pretty sweet, way cooler than going infinite!
I don't have any commander decks that win with combos.
My Prossh deck has no infinite combos, no expensive cards, and I've banned everything "broken" from it... and it still has half a dozen ways to win. Commander damage, straight up combat damage, life drain, direct burn, etc.
I've never found a need for "combos."
....one the one hand, I came here to learn. On the other hand, 99% of the games I've won over the past year or two have been via something mentioned in this video, lol!
Dauthi Embrace from the Tempest set is an enchantment I have in my Kaalia deck for Evasion
Effect of card: {B}{B}: Target creature gains shadow until end of turn. (It can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow.)
Mana cost: {2}{B}
As of now it’s 4.50USD
love that card... I put it in my Sauron dark lord deck immediately with the teferi's veil aura[i might have the name wrong](BB:enchanted creature phases out) for evasion and protection that was evocative of the one ring
How did you know i am building a death by 1000 cuts deck. Haha. Thanks for the tips.
Death to combat damage? Preposterous! That's just a combo where a deck produces enough creatures that have enough power to knock players out!
For real though, lately I've pretty much only died to damage by combat or pinging. A guy sent his Alibou blast at me, but as i used Bolt bend to direct it back at him (which would've knocked him out), he sacrificed an artifact to Bosh, and my 1 HP was not enough to withstand the artifact he flung at me.
“How many times can you take 5 or 6 before you die?”re:Terror of the Peaks.
not to be nitpicky, but If my math served me (without any life gain), correct I think the answer is about 8
Only 8 if it is 5 damage 7 if it is 6 damage which does over kill at 42 damage
i remember casting rite of replication in my kicker deck targeting massacre wurm. Ended up with 10 wurms killing the table xD
Good lord ☠️
Love this kind of video. When are we gonna get more shuffle scuffle
A sub-category under Mass Evasion could contain cards like Taunting elf, Lure, and Shinnen of Life's Roar which can make your team essentially unblockable save for one dork.
Roar of challenge is one of my favorite card. Can be use as a removal or win con. Can be tutor in blue
Holy crap it's actually my bday and the topic is relevant!
"Craterhoof Behemoth. Peace out tribe scout" XD
Whoah. As you were talking about Klauth and Old Gnawb, I was like “they better mention genesis wave, that card closes out games.” Literally had to pause to comment bc now I’m confident the moxfield ad is around 26:30
Cathars' Crusade and Coat of Arms have to be some of the hardest effects in Magic to keep track of. I think it's nearly impossible to determine exactly the P/T of your creatures with both of these in play, and if you do the values will soon change
Try keeping track of counters from Rite of Replication kicked on Reyhan, Last of the Abzan. Then add randomness like Doubling Season, Hardened Scales, etc. The copies of Reyhan die to the legend rule but each of the 6 Reyhans sees and replaces all 15 counters from the dying ones (so 90 counters without any of the extra counters cards. Just adding Doubling Season to this means you made 10 tokens w/ 6 counters each then those counters are doubled again when you move them to something else.
Here's the math... 110(2(2(3))) = 1320 total counters in 110 increments of 12 counters.
This is why I stopped playing ghave and took it apart
Thousand Year Storm is very painful too
@@dirtyfrench2926 I had Doubling Season and parallel lives in play, and a scute swarm. Then I cast reshape the earth. Math, lol.
I took cathar's crusade out of my Ghave deck for this reason, only doubling season for me.
Best big damage spell, bar none, is Crackle with power.
There's really quite something to blasting 7 targets for 35 damage
And in the right deck it's super easy to cast it at strength where you can outright win. If you want to maximize that spell as a wincon, for your commander I recommend trying Galazeth Prismari. Really easy to come up with enough mana to turn that into a game winner.
@@thekwjiboo oooh sounds fun, thanks for the deck idea
I definitely think crackle with power deserves a mention. It's like comet storm that scales so much faster.
Yes! In my Galazeth Prismari deck Crackle with Power is one of my best wincons
@@thekwjiboo I also run it in a galazeth prismatic deck! It's definitely the best way to spend 20 plus mana
Rite of Replication is also a 1-card-combo.
You can really cheese extra turn spells. Just have an isochron Scepter with a Narset's Reversal on it.
I don't understand what is the difference between many of these (like overrun) and many combos having 7 creatures on board and overrunning seems same to me as storming out a win whit some combo. Not talking about super effective combos like demonic consultation and oracle
Last time I won with tana and Elesh Norm on the battlefield, just creating tokens as i attacked. Love it
Thank you for this great episode! Our local meta forbids tutors and combos, so this video is a perfect fit!
Next up: How to build consistent decks without tutors! ;)
Ooo I don’t hate the idea 👀
Id call Craterhoof an indefinite combo much like grapeshot or tendrils of agony are. Its never cast by itself, but as a payoff for vomiting on the field, 9/10 Craterhoof will kill at least one person the turn its played. Just because decks that use Craterhoof don't just win off the stack with damage doesn't really mean much to me.
Avenger of Zendikar is explosive in Atla Palani decks with Maskwood Nexus and Ashaya... The other day I managed to play it and I wasn't even paying attention until one of my opponents just pointed out how I just won the game... I also had a trample enabler, but I can't remember if it was Kamahl or Garruk's Uprising, and I had Anger on my graveyard (thanks to a turn one looting)
Maelstrom wanderer, keddis, fiery emancipation, dictate of the twin gods, lovely timmy ass combat step jank
Commander without combos is the best , winning with combos is just to damn easy no chalenge
My favorite non combo way to win is equipping grave titan with argentum armor. Just you wait!
(Callback to my favorite Nitpick quote)
JUST YOU WAIT UNTIL I UNTAP, MY TURN IS GONNA BE SO GOOD
Crashing Drawbridge tap haste to all creatures, some boots/greaves after mass reanimate
Dina, Soul Steeper is just Death by 1000 cuts tribal. I almost don't like playing it because it's just too many triggers to track.
I like to goad them until it’s 1v1 and swing with my 10/10 commander relentlessly 😊
Goad gets a lot better without combos!
I think Temporal Trespass deserves a mention for extra turn spells. 3 mana extra turn is great
Great topic
We liked it too! :D
Can we clarify combos? I run a life gain deck and there are cards that synergize well together enough to create a KO. For instance, I have creatures that gain me life when creatures enter the battlefield and when I gain life opponents take damage. So inkshield when I'm attacked for alot makes so many tokens I kill everyone on the spot. Or I can summon tokens equal to my life total, which also knocks everyone out. Heck, if someone board wipes at the wrong time it deals enough damage to end the match. Am I combo deck too?
That’s different then sanguine bond plus exquisite blood lol git gud bro combo
Those would be what this channel calls “critical mass combos.” They rely on having in the range of 3+ synergistic cards on the field that snowball into a win. When you win this way your opponents generally have several turns to see the snowball start to come together and try to find an answer. It’s this sense of forewarning that’s key. You can play a super powerful critical mass deck as long as it doesn’t win out of nowhere.
By contrast you have something like doomsday combo. You tutor up doomsday, cast it, and then win. You’re opponents can’t really do anything to stop you except have a counterspell. These types of combos tend to generate unfun games since they invalidate all the board development, combats, etc. that lead up to that point. A slightly less annoying but still potentially problematic version of this are two card win the game combos. They tend to lead to the same feels bad endings, but are often easier to disrupt.
@@jamesgratz4771 oh I have that too as well as the instant win creature and enchantment. :) gotta be ready!
@@jacksonletts3724 ok dope. Yeah I like the "fairness" of my deck because you can see it building. It ain't top tier but at least everyone has a shot at building up as well as interacting with my board state.
Thanks for the clarification! Game on brother
In my opinion: Inkshield is fine, tokens equal to your life total I would consider a two card combo.
I have an old Ayara deck, and I do run Plague of Vermin in it as an emergency button. That for sure is a combo, and I usually don't pull the trigger on it in most games.
At least Maze's End got a buff with the new support Baldur's Gate provided
I miss the days where I sat down to a lgs table that didn't operate by OP combos and played blue by default
Moxfield guess 17:38
Just won today without combo. Thrumming Stone chained Dragon's Approach. Gotta love Ripple 4.
It’s not combo? I had it helmed by Neheb, Dreadhorde General and I always considered it one. You okay both the cards, and watch as you flip, and flip, and flip your way to victory
@@andreabimonte7688 hmm you do have a point. I play it in Kess and only run 20 approach. Opportunity is there to whiff
Would you consider psycosis and drawing about 10-15 cards a combo? And how about cloning the crawler?
Crawler wheel is definitely a combo, usually one of the fairer ones due to the cost of getting crawler in play+ a large draw spell. I can think of ways of increasing the damage if that’s what you are looking for. Cloning it is not bad though.
@@DrewskiTheLegend Well I am Not even wheeling. I Play Grazilaxx and for a the best way to Draw massive amount of cards is blinking Cavaliere of Gales (brainstorm in a 5/5 Flyer)
@@thork_tv blinking with Deadeye Navigator? It does give you decent card selection and you can do it at instant speed. What about Whirlpool Rider from Apocalypse? It’s 2 mana, less mana intensive and if you have a hand with 4+ cards to begin with, it hits much harder. Probably kills everyone if you can clone the crawler and you can blink the rider 4x with a decent grip (which you probably have because your commander is so good at drawing cards) all in all, a relatively fair combo with a reasonable amount of setup. Also Riverwise Augur does what the cavalier does, again for cheaper and less mana intensive. Now THAT’S a nasty combo!
Good topic. Infinite combos are boring.
A pet card of mine is biovisionary, it's my win con in momir vig. Technically I win thru a combo by casting echoing equation on it, but, there's clones to do it the slow way haha
Is that post malone there under “ buy joe cherries a cedh deck” ?
Finale of Devestation finding Pathbreaker Ibex usually gives you atleast +23/+23
Imagine playing Wulfgar. +52/+52
Imagine a second combat!
I think big ugins ult is probably game winning and if you have a solid board or any proliferation he’s not too hard to get to.
Rally the Ancestors is a mass reanimation in white and its also an instant!
Gets even funnier when you look at the word siege side by side with seize. The English language is truly a weird conflicted beast.
For mass evasion, Archetype of Imagination is beast.
This reminded me of the time when I started playing commander last year with Adrix and Nev as my first precon. Watching your awesome upgrade video I was mind blown as you mentioned the Adrix and Nev + Reef Worm + Quasiduplicate/Cackling Counterpart + Altar of Dementia interaction - I'm still playing it in that deck. P.S. Eventually I realized it works nicely with Thassa's Oracle, as well. 😄
My Hinata deck uses stuff like Comet Storm to one shot players. It's fun to play stax until I just randomly win.
Avenger of Zendikar with rite of replication is a great combo.
Fun for you, maybe…
what will Joe build with the Austin Post money?
The Nerds: *describes how they play controlling their opponent's turns*
Me: oh god, oh dear god...I mever thought of tutoring for toxic deluge. Oh dear god, my poor friends.
YESSS make them feel the pain!
The problem I find with combat decks is they tend to just insta lose to nukes
It can be tricky for sure!
I wanted to mention Ral Zarek for the Planeswalker category. I have him in a pillowfort deck and there are times where he ults and I just win because I'm playing defense so aggressively. It can also give you a lot of extra mana every turn especially with a sol ring or a bounce land. It's definitely underrated imo
I agree! It flies under the radar because nobody wants to spend a spell on a planeswalker just untaps and occasionally throws a lightning bolt. It will net you tons of mana, and if it does ultimate you can run away with the game.
What's more interesting 5 piece combo or craterhoof?
Not craterhoof
Once I won with Rograkh because I had etali which got me phyresis from an opponent’s deck.
Hi togther, i really enjoy your video. But there is always a downside…. all spells are counterable. I think one spell is important and a must have. Its called threat assessment. Not counterable and a win con it self. Maybe you 2 can do a video about this win con?
I'm a combat focused player, could you make a video about how not to win with combat?
Try out vrondiss, precon from dnd forgotten realms
That would be the 100% combo + spellslinger + aristocrat video :p
@@NitpickingNerds it’s what John Wayne wants😂 but it is a really good one for a newer player to still get to use combat but has some nice synergy flinging some damage to the face
moxfield really is amazing
I Love archetype of Imagination as a mass evasion creature
Explosive combat, large X spells that drain your opponents to death, and mass land destruction that is one sided enough to break your opponents' will to go on.
People at my LGS are trying to convince the owner to ban any Thasass combo since almost every time there's a tournament there some one with thst combo wins and I agree
You grind them out... my favorite game win is when I have a bunch of cards a Mirrari, Mirrari's wake and a Lithoform engine online while my opponents are reduced to top decking for whatever pathetic card they can manage. Then they either scoop or get a beatdown from Kenrith.
Fun fact for coat of arms, changelings get +x/+x x=the # of creatures on THE battlefield.
You guys should play a game of commander with desolatormagic n the magic historian
I played Krenko in my Goblin deck as a commander once. Now they prefer me playing janky 4-card-combo-decks.
Rite of Replication > Utvara Hellkite. Have fun!
For 1000 cuts Mogis God of Slaughter is really good too
My next General Marhault Elsdragon
Since you are talking about aetherflux reservoar outside of combos.
Step 1 trostani as commander
Step 2 have reservoar in play
Step 3 have hornet nest in play
Step 4 nuke the hornet nest to make 50 tokens while gaining the life back
Step 5 profit
Simply play, boardwipe tribal. With an unassuming 5 color commander
I'm guessing 14:22 for the moxfield ad!
Damn
Believe it or not i did make a competitive deck before that did not have any combos in it the deck was just very synergistic and could win before or by turn 4 as goblin no matter what are really strong and will always be competitive no matter the format. To be clear it was a Chandra Goblin Burn and the deck only cost $20 USD to build and i mean i have every physical card in the deck but since i already had a Krenko for a long time it would be around $50 USD to build other than Krenko the Plainswalkers were the only expensive cards in the deck. The only thing i need to make it have combos are Sundial of the infinite and Isochron scepter to pair with my Final Fortune for infinite turns and a Goblin Shapshooter and Thornbite staff which would make the deck tier 1 as i can keep sacing my stuff to untap Krenko and kill everyone and when i sac a goblin i deal 1 damage to a enemy so yeah the deck is really strong without them.
Also not every deck dislikes graveyard hate as my Phage the Untouchable deck pulls from exile with Mirror of Fate and while it is not infinite i can loop it a few times per turn, so the only way to truly get rid of something in that deck is to exile it face down or to exile Mirror of Fate before any harm can be done otherwise my deck, graveyard, and exile are virtual card advantage. Mirror of Fate reads "Tap, Sacrifice Mirror of Fate: Choose up to seven face-up exiled cards you own. Exile all the cards from your library, then put the chosen cards on top of your library" so have Elixir of Immortality and you can loop this as long as you have the mana and card draw but there is a infinite combo where you just played your entire deck and using the exile zone is just a side effect to get your deck into your hand onto the field however you need a infinite Mana combo to activate it.
A way to get infinite mana in a mono black deck is Magus of the Coffers, Umbral Mantle and a mana doubler like Bubbling Muck which all of those cards are cheap to buy so about $10 to $11 USD for all 3 however pair Mirror of Fate and Elixir of Immortality with them and draw spells that you keep recycling you actually play your entire deck from exile which combos greatly with Lich's Mastery as you literally are immortal as you wait for the next turn cycle to finish it especially if you have Emergence Zone and copy it somehow which if you sac that land your spells gain flash for that turn however you won't be able to play that land again unless you had something like Primal surge it off of the deck. But a mono black deck can't do that so it is best to kill two people incase they did a ton of damage their turns to get rid of your hand and combo then wait a turn cycle as it is not infallible and you are only truly immortal for 1 turn as someone gave you a bad elixir.
Though have a Thespian's Stage and Vesuva copy Emergence Zone and then you are definitely completely immortal for 1 entire turn cycle and after that you have better killed two people at the least as only 1 land per turn can be played. Yes those two are actual cards and essential for the Immortality Combo which is a ingenious combo if i do say so myself, yet like all infinite combos they lose their luster after one game as at first it is cool and impressive you were able to think of something like that complicated
I really wish more people played at this Power level.
I'm coming back to MTG this year to start playing commander, and I just hate combos, or players who play 10-minute-turn decks
Pack interaction. It sucks because you aren't sticking to your theme, but it is essential.
I play a Vorel deck and removed Simic Ascendacy fron my deck since I have a multiple ways of putting counters on my creatures on instand speed that make that card boring. I prefer wining with Overwhelming Stampede giving my creatures +32 and smacking everyone in their faces.