How to fix F1 and the state of the used car market | Ti podcast 201
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel discuss the latest news from the world of cars, including the new Formula 1 season and the deflating 2024 Bahrain Grand Prix, Bugatti's extraordinary V16 engine and the health of the used performance car market. They also reflect on their 90-minute podcast with James May, published last week.
#f1 #cars #performancecars
0:00 2024 Bahrain Formula 1 Grand Prix
20:20 State of the used car market
27:44 Reflecting on the James May podcast
30:44 Unusual engine configurations
34:19 Climbing Mount Kilimanjaro
This is episode 201 of The Intercooler podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts.
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All due respect why aren't you showing pics of the cars you're discussing on that giant tv
And maybe buy a few lights, for God's sake
That would require production
Fraid Dave is right
God forbid anyone works too hard! 😂😂
If possible please invite Harry Metcalfe & Jeremy Clarkson, we need these famous farmers on the pod.
I'll be very impressed if Jezza turns up. He doesn't really do CZcams. Go to any drivetribe video with JC in the thumbnail and/or title, and you'll notice Clarkson ain't really in the video, or is only in a pre recorded interview. Hammond and May have been much more engaged with the online community.
Don't get me wrong, I love Clarkson, he's been my favourite TV personality for nearly 35 years, I Just don't see him appearing on podcasts.
@@Kris_T_ That's because Drivetribe was always Hammond and May's thing, I believe they financially invested in it whereas Clarkson did not.
I don't often make comments on youtube channels, but wanted to say you guys produce great podcasts, original and authentic. A very balanced discussion between knowledgeable and thoughtful commentators.
Huge achievement for Andrew to climb Kilimanjaro. Well done sir!
With regard to F1 the difference between 1988 and now is that 88 was a battle between two top drivers in the same car. If there was a driver capable of challenging Max in the other Red Bull it could be an amazing year.
Already talk today of Max going to Mercedes, Ford checking whether RB partnership can be dissolved, and Ben Sulayem under investigation. Huge pressure on Antonelli to deliver in F1.
Ground effect regulations simply handed Adrian Newey a blank cheque. Bring on 2025 with Lewis in a Ferrari. Get rid of downforce & wings, bring in V10s (on sustainable fuel) with a manual gearbox to allow some driver error.
Fyi Aconcagua is the highest you can walk up.
I think there is a question which we should all answer about F1 and it’s whether we want it to be the pinnacle of team motorsport where brilliant drivers and engineers can shine or whether we want it to be an entertainment.
In my opinion I love the fact that we can see people like Adrian Newey develop such a dominating car but the regulations needs to do a better job at making those cars exciting to watch even if they’re driving 20 seconds ahead of everyone else. The entertainment should come from a single-make series similar to how the M1 procar supported F1 before. The racing would be close, it could be used instead of sprint races to bring entertainment and we would be able to have a same car comparison between drivers which we would all love to see. A mini championship in this kind of format plus include some young drivers would be great entertainment.
This is just my opinion but it would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on this question as a listener question!
This is just the cycle of F1, same as it ever was. Nearly a decade of single team domination, a year or two of close racing, rinse and repeat.
They have a V16 LS based engine making 1100hm N/A in the US they have been designed primarily for Powerboat racing it’s a very cool unit
F1 is like a science, the science of making something exiting into something boring.
Very sad to be listening to your discussion about F1 - BoP in F1 would be a disaster, impossible to police and tear up the whole point of the sport, i.e. manufacturer versus manufacturer. Informally we already have BoP for the powertrains up-to the last homologation dates, fuel flow control, Battery capacities etc.. - unfortunately Renault were still not able to match their competitors despite all their resource and experience at Viry.
Why not celebrate what Max is doing as we did with Lewis, Seb, Michael, Prost, Senna etc... Behind Max the racing was good last weekend, a mix of jeopardy and performance due to having new cars and lack of experience in setting them up and unseasonal cool temperatures.
The cost-cap has helped teams become viable, invest in new resources and with the stability in regs has seen the gaps between all teams close up (remember pre-qualifying and the 107% rule?) to make the sport even more competitive than ever. Gaps have come down between all teams in the last 3 years.
Unfortunately we should not be negative towards Red Bull or seek to implement rules to penalise them but celebrate their success especially with the lowest amount of Aerodynamic Testing available due to introduction of the ATR along with an iconic driver but enquire why teams such as Mercedes and Ferrari with similar or higher budgets and significantly less ATR cannot be as competitive.
BTW I had an early Elise S1 and it was amazing - wish I'd kept it!
This is 1000% the comment I was looking for. BOP is the antithesis of competition. Upsetting to hear it mentioned in the same sentence as F1 (and I'm a casual fan at best).
What if the cars were 5-8% narrower/smaller? Drivers can't pass what they can't fit past.
There is no answer you will like but I'll give you two. 1) Ballast. 2) Stop changing the damn rules. If you left the rules the same for 10 years all the cars would eventually reach the same pinnacle. As it is, the teams with money leap ahead every time the rules change. After a few years the field closes up. Then the rules change.
The teams f*cked over the Americans with the Indy debacle coming up two decades ago. They won't forget. Did anyone do their nut when Schumacher or Hill or Hakkinen or Hamilton were the majority winners? No. The racing is still great. Get rid of the shi# and boring circuits, the new Hockenheim, all the Herman Tilke circuits that suck.
The TV coverage stinks and is hard to follow, no one wants to see the leader for 95% of the race.
The FIA needs a restructure too it seems . . .
Get Peter Stevens onto the pod please!
What watch is Andrew wearing?
Looks like a Tag Heuer Carrera
My solution for F1 would be to let the championship winner to feature 3 or even 4 cars, so we have at least a 3 horse race at the front till the next rule changes apply and change the order
Unpopular opinion but I’m gonna say it anyway - why not experiment with a single spec chassis, engine, suspension, and aero package with setup adjustability in all those aspects. That takes away development costs to build the car but forces the teams to really focus on the car setup balance with the driver which thus brings the focus on the drivers capability versus the size of a teams budget?
Little point sponsoring Red Bull as you won't get much TV coverage in the race🤷
The problem with F1 is the price cap. I understand why but it doesn't work for the pinnacle. You have a pinnacle of the sport where great Engineers should come up with amazing unique ideas. The team will do well for a couple of races then the rest will copy. Then another team will will find something special. So to summarize you need to free the rules up while semi controlling airflow and wake for the car behind. Constant engine updates throughout the year is good. Even individual unique ways the Engineers can come up with how to deal with hybrid systems, and the interaction between the ICE engine and the electrical energy systems.
The F1 cost cap is the same concept as the salary cap in other American sports. The reality is it doesn't level the playing field.
@@PointNemo9Not really because if they spend more on development then they can push the limits. So the best car will be the ones with the best engineers. Similar to now with Newey except the limits will be taken off can developers can supply the pinnacle as is meant to be.
rallying is the pinnacle
9:37 Suddenly Really3D appears with MegaRuleton: Max a la carcel! And Magic Alonso wins the race. Que grande eres Magic!
It's the olympic final of the mens 100 metre sprint. Usain Bolt has the fastest PB so he's gridded in front of everyone else. No, this doesn't happen as it doesn't make sense.
Maybe drawing for position would work? The emphasis in practice would be on race performance rather than qualifying. Even if the end result is the same, the prospect of the fast guys cutting through the field would be a good watch...
Would the best thing to do be to just not change the rules, or at least change them less frequently than 5 seasons. The end of 2021 after the 2017 onwards regulations made for the best season in years and one of the best seasons ever. When you discount the haas, even the back markets managed to have the odd result. The only problem I can see with that is when towards the end of said regulations, it isn’t competitive, such as 2016 or 2013. Just my thoughts
To answer "how to fix f1"
1) Equal cars or some sort of MOTOGP style (2-3 constructors with customer teams) We just can t avoid this if we want some sort of a championship
2) Less practice, 1FP - Quali - Sprint - GP. Don t give the drivers and teams to get too much data otherwise you end up with a Bahrain scenario where the GP was a copy paste of Winter Testing.
I remember COTA 2018 and German 2020 being good races because all of the friday was wet and they couldn t do any sim runs
3) Racing itself, I think we just need chonkier tyres that don t need management to force drivers to drive on the limit most of the race ?
You can put a mandatory pit stop it seems to work well but chonky tyres to let the drivers push as much as possible
4) You could also touch on the rotation of tracks in order to bring new places. 5-7 slots in the calendar on a discount price to allow smaller venues to havr a chance to promote their circuit on the biggest motorsport series. More tracks, more visibility (I m aware f1 wants to maximise revenues at the moment and aims for bigger venues)
Anything else ? These are for me the main items, the car itself and the format of the weekend to maximise the Sport side
MotoGP to me is the best example of what is ruining both sports if you follow it. since they introduced aero packages Ducati has dominated, it really comes down to who runs the best fluid dynamics simulations because almost every other aspect of the bikes are extremely regulated.
In the short term, send Adrian Newey to Ferrari. This will spice 2025 a little.
Get rid of hybrid cars for 2026 which will make them much lighter (and loads cheaper). Run an V10 engine on sustainable fuel, which would sound amazing. Keep a close eye on areodynamics.
Oh, get two extra teams on the grid, 24 cars are desperately needed to bring in new younger drivers.
Simples....
Compulsory swapping of drivers. A driver can stay with a team for no more than 2 years
Split the Drivers and Constructors Championships use two types of car. One spec car for racing and one open design for qualifying. Constructors Championship is about building the fastest outright car so these non-spec cars (like current form) will be used for Qualifying and Constructors points awarded as such. Drivers will RACE in spec cars.
Give the teams a set of safety requirements and that’s it. Let them go nuts on engines and configurations and let’s really see what happens
I have been to two Nascar races and it is like demolition derby. The cars are fast but the only excitement was from all the crashes but honestly i was bored senseless after 3 hours of constant interruptions due to all the crashes. F1 has way more excitement in races apart from the fact that Red Bull have Max. But it has always been thus. Remember Lewis at Mercedes in 2019 or Schumacher at Ferrari in 2003 or Mansell at Williams or Vetterl at Red Bull. Putting the best driver in the best car will always produce a dominant car and driver. Short of making F1 a spec series or reversing the grid and Warding points for qualifying, i cannot see how it changes with Max in a RedBull this year and next
Don't know u can fix f1, I have eeotched off. Enough of it for me. Done.
But more of thus this pod has kept me entertained every time.
Thabks for the effort. Worth the sub all day long..
@@jone8626 Nailed it. I’m sick of hearing this rhetoric from Lewis Hamilton fangirls
Last weekend's Grand Prix may not have been much to write home about, but with everything else going on I suspect Drive To Survive will be fine. It's a shame we've got here, but it seems the actual racing is an ever diminishing component of the whole sorry pantomime.
formula one needs covered wheels to allow more risky overtaking
As long as the cars produce downforce in the way that they do, that’s not gonna happen imo.
Lads any chance you can increase the volume? I've the video slider up full, and I can't increase my laptops main volume without the cat shitting itself every time I get an email.
Make Red Bull cars tow a caravan , it’s the only way to make it more enjoyable.
I don't think the new aero rules work at all.
I firmly believe the tires are where the problem is.
2021 I found the racing close and exciting enough. No need for an aero change.
Now the have to baby the tires for the entire race. They changed the tires at the same time as the aero rules, so you can't even tell which of them even does something.
This dirty air thing might be a thing in theory, but the racing is not closer or more exciting than before.
I think its time for pirelli to get out of the sport. Thats why you don't see any racing. They even say that in the junior series,that you have to wait the entire race and nurse the tires and then race a few laps at the end.
We need the drivers to push more and then some mistakes will happen to, nothing happens in the races not even in the mid or back field.
Also the engine freeze hasn't helped I think. No pushing in the engine department either. Thats why most of the time all the teams finish the race.
Cost cap hasn't worked either. All it does now is that the top teams are still on top, but no one can catch up with investing a massive amount,even midseason. Plus now the top teams spend the same as before but instead of engineers or parts getting the money, now the drivers get it.
This problem was accentuated since the late 90s.The technology is so complex now that if a team gets an advantage they have it for quite a long time. Mercedes between 2014-2021 had an incredible advantage. Lewis won all of his races with Merc because of this. Nobody was close. Even Rosberg won with that car.
The only way to fix it is the force the teams to reveal their IP and design every 1 or 2 yrs. And or they change the regulations every 2 or 3 years.
Prices are coming down of used cars, what country is this bloke living in?
Clarkson hit it on the head. It's been the same for literally decades now, Adrian Newey is the key, almost all the cars he's designed have dominated. You have to admire his ability, its just a shame it does make F1 a borefest currently. Will be interesting when he retires. Having said that, Checo doesn't do what Max does with the same car either.
Yeah make tracks more bumpy. Cheap solution to crippling Red Bull. 😊
F1 regulations are fine. Competition has never been as tight as it is today. It's just that Max is better than everybody else. He would beat everybody in Ferrari as well.
This.
How to make F1 more interesting. 1. Make power unrestricted
You fix F1 by not locking drivers to one team... each driver does 2 races for each team throughout the season... that way Red Bull still wins the constructors but the drivers championship is far more competitive
Your podcast is really very quiet.
Personally I think people are too used to "entertainment" at the cost of everything else. Not every football match HAS to be spectacular, not every contest is amazing, and from there comes the appreciation for the truly great moments in any competition, because of their rarity.
Just watch WEC
Most exciting news of 2024 season is Lewis going to Ferrari end of! The rest is boring same old!
Just get rid of downforce. Job done. 3.5L V10 + 900bhp + 20krpm, concrete tyres, metal brakes. You'll get more overtaking in the first race than in an enitre current season.
This though, will never happen. F1 has not beeen a "sport" for at least 30 years, and money is all that matters.......
The solution for F1 is to either leave the rules alone for a very long time, like 10 years or so, or to make it the fastest spec series in the world. I'm a diehard so almost nothing would stop me from watching F1, however, if they implement BOP I will stop watching immediately. The idea of penalizing a team for doing a great job is gross to me.
Why is Andrew sat in the dark?
How about going back to 1 hour qualifying - and all the action is in the last 10 mins, but you might end up with a different grid?
Don’t disagree with reverse grid in F1 but you are then getting into the realms of WRC where drivers purposely adapt and sand bag. I say put sprinklers in on selected hot tracks during qualifying mid way through to mix the pack up and again during the race. I put of jeopardy indeed. Bring back Bernie 😊😮
NASCAR will turn both left and right 5 times in 2024. Check out the road course races.
Maybe F1 needs a couple oval races each season 😅😅
I couldn't care less about F1 as they missed the opportunity to change years ago. I like what WEC have done with LeMans and Nurburgring24, Dakar, But F1 needs a real failure to get someone to shake the tree. I don't think pretending its 2002 is the answer either.
I bet you both were not moaning about F1 like this when Hamilton was winning endlessly! And lets not forget, he was winning under a ruleset that basically stopped the other teams being allowed to catch up! Remember the PU token system?
The only way to fix F1 is Adrian Newey retiring. Simple as that.
FORMULA 1 has become an expensive pantomime. No racing, no overtaking and no entertainment. That is coming from a one time F1 fan. Indy racing leaves F1 for dead in terms of excitement and vastly lower costs. Shame on those who have created F1 rules.
bring back refuelling . F1 has never been the same since this stopped
Is it just me. Or is this insanity quite compared to every other channel
Simple solution to F1. Watch the MotoGP.
It’s really very simple - stop changing the damn rules and let the cars converge, just like they did in 2021. Screw the changes to implement new environmental nonsense.
For F1 to become competitive wings must go, car manufacturers power trains must be available to all entrants. Chassis must be available for purchase for privateers, yes privateers! The F1 Cartel must be broken. F1 needs to return to proper circuits rather than 'street tracks'. Hopefully, F1 will die, and road racing, Grand Prix, style will return and us fans will find out who is the best single seater race car driver in the world.
I skipped through and watched the race in the span of about 10 minutes, 15 minutes at the most. I'll probably skip the horrendous event in Saudi entirely. Will maybe give the sport a chance and pretend it's starting in Australia later this month. But did any of us expect much of a good season this year? I surely did not
The problem with F1 is that it's not dangerous anymore. All the health and safety killed the thrill.
I get where you’re coming from but it’s also saved a huge amounts of F1 drivers lives by the regs they’ve brought in.
@@Metal05The reality is that F1 enthralled audiences because it was dangerous. Racing with all of the danger removed is not exciting, it's just a boring game.
Without the halo grossean would be dead. Decapitated and burned to the ground. I saw Senna die live on tv in that crappy williams, Dale earnhart in that nascar because he wouldn't wear the hans system and so on. And there is that poor dude that got chopped in half in F2 in 2018 on SPA. And so on. Even with all the safety its still bloody dangerous.
Hate to say it but the constant PistonHeads flogging is starting to grate as a subscriber and detracts from the content.
Lose 80% of the rules
Don’t have tv, but it could not be worse than this dribble.
F1 is boring.
Make it interesting.
There's your fix.
For me F1 shot itself in the foot when Lewis was cheated out of his 8th championship. The ‘show’ overruled the racing. That should never happen.
“Cheated” 😂. He was beaten under race conditions fairly. He’s old and slow. Get over it.
Just like how Max was "cheated" out of a Silverstone 2021 win.
lewis the racism campaigner goes to italy ????
What’s your point?
Exactly
@@slicklace lewis is going to struggle to fit into ferrari and will leave very quickly
@@londonman8688 Vasseur still there and he doesn’t speak Italian plus Lewis and him go way back! If you’re trying to say it’s because Italians are racist well that’s abit much and rude don’t you think?
@@slicklace they are very very racist