Edison cylinder recording is alive & well.
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- Reading the patent document of Thomas Edison’s tin foil phonograph of 1878, we were fascinated to see that it encompassed electrical recording, via an electromagnet (solenoid).
Also, magnetic recording on a strip of ferrous metal!
We had no choice but to attempt a working model of Edison’s electric cylinder phonograph. 😀
We tinkered with it for 2 or 3 months. Some progress was made, but it was very much an uphill task.
So eventually we gave up, simply turning it into a youtube video, so that other people doing this sort of thing would know that they were not alone. 😊
Hope you like it!
Cheers
Norman.
Here are some of the links referred to in the video.
Shawn Borri. • A live recording test ...
(Original Edison late model cylinder recorder.)
Norman Field. • cylinder record player...
(Home made electric cylinder player.)
...and here is one I forgot - thanks to Jean-Paul for remindng me. You can read on line the second edition of this important book here:
worldradiohist... - Hudba
Thanks you Mr. Field for giving me credit about the advance ball recorder. I have an original body and advance ball from one of the big cylinder companies, and I made an advance ball recorder totally as a joke, made with crude hand tools, absolutely no measuring! the advance ball made from a broken glass diaphragm. (Originally glass diaphragms were purchased from Carl Zeiss for Edison phonographs, 33mm round microscope cover slips were ordered from Germany. The crude home made one records a very crisp, and clear cylinder. (both of them are acoustical recorders. For what it is the magnetic recorder you made sounds OK for something from 1878 patent, It shows Edison as the father of electrical recording, and discs, which many still ignore. The advance ball recorder, Henry Seymour, author of The Reproduction of sound, gives credit for a British patent from 1903, for this. As you have stated, it takes the weight off the cutter and puts it on the advance ball. It can be sapphire, glass, or agate, and even cork embedded with graphite.
The classic interruption intro never gets old.
Thanks! I had a good laugh at your comment! 😀 Absolutely totally corny! Will have to think of something else for part 2! (Thinks: Inverted screen? Hee hee!) Cheers, Norman.
As usual, nothing short of amazing.
Hi Bridget - great to hear from you - have spoken to Spats yesterday & Jonathan today, and really intend to be floating around in the mid-day of Pershore. Hope all's OK with you, & lookoing forward to another meet-up! Take care & see you soon... N.
Superb, ingenious as ever, and historic! Congratulations and many thanks Norman!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for writing. Yes, in these troubled times it is good, occasionally, to escape to a semi-fantasy world... what if...?? Cheers, Norman.
Fascinating stuff. I stumbled on your video completely by accedent. It kept my attention right to the end. Really neat stuff
That's very kind of you to write in - thanks! There will evenutally be a sequel... All the best to you and yours, Norman.
Norman hi from argentina nice to see more videos from you!!!
Muy amable de tu parte escribir. ¡Muchos gracias! Debe haber una secuela, un seguimiento de este video. Espero que te guste eso también. Mis mejores deseos para usted y su familia. Normando. 😁
Hope you're OK Norman. Great to see you back 🙂
Yes thanks - it' fine here. Hope the same with you & yours. Good to hear from you, and we'll carry on pottering around audio stuff as long as poss! Cheers, Norman.
@@bixanorak Yes, all good here thanks. Will you be building anymore circuits with valves Norman, or featuring any vintage radios?
If only Dolby noise reduction had been invented 100 years ago, you might have been on to a winner Norman!
Hi Michael. Thaks for writing. There will be a Part 2 - true, we'll have to improve the sound quality... 😀 Cheers, Norman.
Amazingly made!
Thanks for writing - and yes, there is already another cylinder project! A simple, cheap but viable home made cylinder player..😊
You know the wind is at your back when you get up in the morning and find Mr. Field has been at work in his lab! Thank you Mr. Field. Your videos are engaging and educational. Please keep them coming!
Many thanks! There _is_ a new cylinder player project in train - a low-cost machine made from readily available bits & pieces. More o this later I hope. All the best for now, cheers, Norman.
great stuff !!! I wonder if warming-up the cutting-needle would lower the S/N-ratio.
But this would make this experiment much too compicated!
Another idea crossing my mind at this moment is using an old telephone-speaker (electro-magnetic with metallic membrane) and glue a "cutting-needle" in the center.
Thanks for writing. Yes - a telephone earrpiece was indeed what Emile Berliner used in his early trial - which I presume was a lateral cut - but like everything else, he couldn't proceed because of no means of amplification. (Same applies to Poulsen's Telegraphone and Laust's 1908 optical film sound track!) These & others will be looked at in Part II of this video! Cheers, Norman. P.S. Yes, the heated cutter or embosser would help too! Can try that out by recording a contant frequency & GENTLY warming the cylinder with a heat gun on low power...
Amazing that no one caught the gist of this obscure recording method. There were no suitable amplifiers available at that time, but someone could have pressed a carbon button mic and a battery into service to check this out. Might have changed the course of recording from the very beginning.
Thanks for writing. Yes indeed! The big problems remaining are: (a) Did Edison try this system - probably; and (b) What gear did he use? Am definitely going to try a part 2 for this video! After all, Berliner defintely recorded a test on a disc using a telephone diaphragm... he did not pursue it as it sounded so feeble. Again, no electronic amplifier! Cheers, Norman.
very good !!!!
Norman sir, its too long a time between drinks, but was well worth the wait. I love your audio experiments on cylinder and disc. This was a fabulous inspiration and most enjoyable! More soon please!
Thanks Martin - yes, there will certainly be a follow-up, where we will attempt to discover what techniques might have been used by Edison. All the best for now, Norman.
First of all my joy to see you again, Professor Field, a.k.a. The Mad Scientist. Quite interesting your research and your machine. Well, these are trademarks of yours. Thank you for another interesting lesson.
Thanks for writing! There'll be a sequel to this video in due course, with more things that (purely IMHO) are in danger of dropping off the edge of this Discworld! 😀
mary had a little lamb, its fleas were white as snow , every where mary went the lamb was sure to go. Ha ! ha! ha! great vid
Thanks indeed, Allan. There was another version in circulation, apparently in the R.A.F. during National Service days - which I missed by about 18 months, late 1950s.. 🤔
Mary had a little lamb.
It trotted in the grass.
One day it climbed into the trees,
and fell down on its...
hands and knees! 😊
Terribly silly, but I can't seem to forget it!
Cheers,
Norman.
Fascinating. I had no idea electric recording was a thing so early!
Thanks for writing in. There was *so much* going on with telegraph, telephone, phonograph &c in the 1870s, that it all became a bit of a chronological jumble. Also, vast sums of money were to be made, so litigation on patents grew large. In fact, it is often impossible to say 'exactly who invented what' - because this bit came from one source, that bit from another - and so on! But it's fascinating to read up on all of it... 🤨 Cheers, Norman.
Hi Norman. I thought that you could solder the recording pick on the tip of the reed of a mini door bell which is itself a coil and a plate that can vibrate freely, you just need to bring a magnet close to the whole assembly. you can also move the stylus from the center of a small speaker. Greetings from Victor from Buenos Aires.
Hi Victor. Thanks for writing. Yes, I agree I could have made a better 'transducer' - and your suggestion is excellent. I actually have a 1960s 'buzzer' that would work as you suggest. hope to get around to that some time. Mis mejores deseos para usted y su familia, amigo Víctor.
Good to see you back sir! I have a copy of that book, I was kicked out of class at uni for reading it during a very boring lecture some years ago! Great experiment, thank you for sharing. Part 2?
Hi Jean-Paul. Sorry you suffered for 'Retro-Tech' reading! 😕 By the way, thanks for reminding me, that there is a second edition of this book, readable on-line, gratis. I should have put a link in the video description. It is worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Sams-Books/Sams-Radio-From-Tin-Foil-to-Stereo-Read-welch-1976.pdf . I will stop now and edit it into the video description. Again thanks & best wishes to you & yours. N.
Another wonderful experiment Norman!
Nice to hear and see from you again.
Is everything okay there with you?
Hopefully we'll see such a nice experiment again soon!
Best regards and 73!
Hi there OM - yes, it's all fine here - as I hope it is with you & yours! Not done any radio lately, but it's always there to go back to. Yes, there will be a follow-up to this video in a few weeks... Best 73 - or 'best bent wire' as used to be sent by CW wireless ops in WW2, if not before, while tuning up their txs. 😊 Cheers, Norman G4LQF, once WS0B.
@ norman field. seems like i cant leave a reply and or respond to a response in my bell. i have to come to the main vid and leave a response that way. im sure there are many variants of the song, some nice and some not so ncce . its amaiZIng how some songs get stuck in our ear worm player forever and cant get rid of them.:):)
Hi there - sorry about that - I usually receive any comment. True, I don't reply to them all 😕 But if you tell me what track the video was, I'll get back to you! 😊Cheers, Norman.
Hello Norman. Big fan! I have a question surrounding the making of the cutting stylus. How is it made to be specific? How do you such a fine tip? Thanks from C.N.
Many thanks! Sorry delay. Well - as you can see, the whole thing is just a lash-up, and I first tried an old sapphire 78 rpm 'needle' that was lying around, but that was too blunt. So I used an early LP one instead, which was of course much smaller - that ought to be a 0.001" radius cone. (0.0254mm). Of course, Edison did not use a cone, he used a tiny hollow-ground sapphire rod that lightly 'dug into' the surface of the wax. I have used very fine 'piano wire' for this, but can't of course make the tip hollow ground - far too small! 🙂 Still, piano wire is very, very much cheaper than sapphire rod! All the best & take care. Cheers, Norman.
Great video Norman, have got another interesting discovery regarding early electrical recording that you might be interested in. May I contact you for more details?
Sure thing! We're around pretty much all the time these days. Just write to jazz@normanfield.com. Happy Easter! 😀😀🐰🐰
@@bixanorak Thanks :) Have sent an email
here is whats possible electrically recording an Edison cylinder : czcams.com/video/ToilbqDvN90/video.html
That's really cool. Thanks! I must try to mke a better recorder... Cheers, Norman.