Why is judging so bad in boxing? w/ Paulie, Chris and Jimmy Smith
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
- 🥊 Expert Debate on Boxing Judging! Dive deep into the controversial world of boxing judging with Paulie Malignaggi, Chris Algeri, and host Jimmy Smith. They tackle the tough questions: Why are boxing judgments so inconsistent? Is corruption influencing the outcomes? 🧐👨⚖️
Discover insights into potential reforms and the urgent need for transparency and integrity in the sport. From training deficiencies to the influence of crowds and potential solutions-nothing is off the table in this hard-hitting discussion! 🎙️💥
Join the conversation and share your thoughts on how we can restore fairness to boxing!
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00:00 ProBoxTV Intro
02:30 The Lack of clear standards for Judges in Boxing
09:00 Does the crowd affect Judges' decisions?
15:00 Sports Betting in boxing
20:00 How do we keep boxing judges accountable? - Sport
Jimmy Smith on Probox is a good thing 👍
I'm not so convinced.
He's phony
Bring back sparring sessions!
Corruption, plain and simple.
So what
@@osiris3yhn Found the judge
Bingo
Def true in some cases, but a lot of times the cards line up in such a way where corruption makes no sense. Like instances where two cards have it right and one is just way out of line. Hanlons razor: “Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity”. I think there’s a shortage of young judges, so the ones we have are old, dumb and have questionable judgment. Gotta get more young judges coming up.
Also, I think judges should be in a press box, not ring side.
Paulie and Teddy Atlas are probably the only two people in boxing that *always* keep it 💯.
100% agree include floyd in that too!!
Teddy’s a anglophobic clown
Not really listen to his last take saying tszu(probably mispelled) deserves a rematch. That’s really bias and not “real.” He talks about the business side of things as if business didn’t make the first fight happen also. I like Tszu don’t get me wrong but he doesn’t deserve a rematch, would it be nice? Yes. But real life isn’t always nice. He had his shot just like Spence ,Bradley, Shawn porter etc. He doesn’t deserve a rematch now. Tim Bradley “kept it real” and kept his feelings out of it on the last take.
The ref should be involved in the judging he’s right in the mix
Judges should be made to declare what they are “looking for” prior to the first bell. Then fighters will know if power shots or ring generalship or jabs etc are going to take precedence
Very Detailed Informative. discussion thank you 😎
Judging is the biggest flaw in boxing! And does the most damage to the integrity of the sport…
Glad to see Jimmy on here.
Are people seeing yt ads when they "take breaks"? Is this being played on cable somewhere? Because if you don't see an ad when they tee up a commercial break, it seems really odd. Like the other day, Matalas tried to stop an interviewee from responding so he could say they were taking a break. It just comes off as nuts, from a television grammar perspective.
Polygraph before & after like VADA
Judging is subjective.
1. Effective aggression, 2. Ring generalship 3. Defense. 4. Clean hard punches. Which criteria is more important?
The audience on tv is influenced by commentators.
The judges are affected by the crowd and their vantage point.
Then 10-8 rounds, 10-10 rounds are judgmental calls.
This is all very subjective
Skills needed to become a boxing judge:
Liking money
Quick lying
Essentially politicians.
They should be interviewed after the fight. Simple as
Jimmy Smith looks like HHH
Great episode!
A lot of bad decisions could be avoided if judges were told to score a round even unless there is a clear winner. Right now, they get too much elbow room to pick the winner of close rounds.
More judges that aren't accountable is just more judges that aren't accountable.
judges who have terrible score cards should have lost fight interviews so they’re held accountable to their decisions in public
A clear hierarchy of scoring.
1. Punches landed
2. Ring generalship
3. Effective defense
Transparency in real time, and post fight accountability for judges.
Love jimmy smith, combat sports media icon!
Don’t know if this would work but I think they should be in the bk watching on a tv and send in their scorecards each round remotely. That way there’s no crowd noise and u can see the fight better. Have the ref have a mic so he can relay cuts from headbutts or punches or whatever. That way there’s no crowd perception and u get the better angles from watching on tv
Dirty little secret in boxing is... judges are actually much better at scoring than average fans and in most instances of controversies, the judges are right and it's just the public's ignorance leading it to conspiracy theories.
I think the main problem is the lack of keeping to the criteria. I hear people say, quite often, that one judge likes to see this and another judge likes to see that. It’s shouldn’t be what you like, you score. It should be, there’s a criteria so use it
Also, the idea that they have no consequences for bad judging is weird. In any line of work, you do a bad job, there’s consequences
I see your point but the problem is that is possible to stick to the criteria and still see it differently. Because there's no objective way possible to weigh up different aspects of the criteria
Just take effective aggression and defence as an example. How are you supposed to objectively weigh those two factors up against eachother. You might think his aggression outweighed the other guys defensive skills but I may see it the other way. Because you like aggression and I like a stick defensive boxer. And that's before you've got to factor in ring generalship and clean punching.
So even with the best will in the world you always get differences of opinion when two boxers are excelling in two different aspects of the scoring criteria
I believe that the judge should sit ring level or higher. Also, they should have their own side of the ring. Sit up high like the official in tennis. Better view to score.
Paulie always says it how it is !
Judges should be held accountable for off cards and there should be a training course that requires x amount of hours x amount of fights and a previous or active judge to sign off on the completion of the program. They could use professional trainers and ex professionals scoring old fights on tape to set some sort of bar for new judges to follow.
What happened to George J? Is sparring sessions coming back?
George was terminated, sparring sessions will be coming back soon
What if there was Poll and the poll says he should be back would that change anything? From what I have seen and read in the comments people are upset he was let go
@Apoll0SpadeYou know it's some underhanded shit when they flat REFUSE to speak on it. I guess you can't escape corruption in this sport not even on the media side. Sad.
A bit of a shock GJ disappearing from the channel seemingly without any mention. He was my favourite part, I thought he was the main guy on the channel. Bit bland now tbh.
Probably cuz he always fumbled his words.
Honestly this is a simple fix. Hire 2 more judges for a total of 5, and use the point system more effectively. take more points for things other than a knockdown. score it a 10/7 or 10/6 if its a completely dominate round. get rid of this 10/9 for every round. That would greatly eliminate mot of that.
How about add two more judges, but those two judges must be former fighters, Or trainers, or even referees? Whatever we try, I can tell ya first hand that adding MORE government to anything, always makes things worse.
Now When You Five With Somebody de Is Walking Around Fighting You Keep Here en Spa, What The Mean es Over You Win
En el Weather Commentary, Why You Fight güey Living You Wanna no Where You There
Like When People en Del puedes Money en Millions Going Down escucha o ponte las pilas o deja los guantes
I Hope You Understand es When You Queen You One Five y When
PAULIE TELLS IT LIKE IT IS.
Judge: Rolly was landing the more effective punches
That’s their default response it’s disgusting
😂😂😂😂😂 you funny as hell! Effective punches like all the punches Cruz almost drop Rollie with! Rollie a dog though but nah he did the most effective holding and running.
It's B.S n gives boxing a bad name. There definitely needs to be stricter standards by judges in each state/city. Its ridiculous.
"Traveling" judges are the problem. Judges should be appointed by a State agency (athletic commission). That way they only work in one state and are answerable to the director/board of the state commission. Take a look at how many "promotions" bring in certain judges (cough: Weisfeld).
Angles matter and the judges looking from different sides of the ring and looking up is a big problem. I think the viewing angle of the judges needs to change. I say they should be looking down on the ring so they get a full view. When you have another boxer and possibly a ref blocking yoru view, it's hard. That isn't to say there isn't some sabotaging happening in judging, but not all of it is. the view matters. In a fight like the Tszyu/Fundora it would matter. In to Cruz/Romero fight, not way that judge that had Rolly winning wasn't in someone's pocket
The difference in scores is very simple, three judges are watching three different fights.
Get them locked in separate rooms watching a big monitor, no commentary, no replays.
At least then they will all be watching the exact same thing and you’re more likely to be able to question their decisions and hold them to account, because you can run it back, see exactly what they saw, then they have to explain it.
Obviously, there are going to be some dodgy judges too.
If they made judges only ex-professional fighters, it would solve everything. Providing they all pass a vision test and an awareness test to make sure they are all still there mentally.
Would also be some cash for retired fighters that weren't top level/didn't make a lot of money
Jimmy!!!
Great debate...I'm with Paulie on this, it's corruption plain and simple...you know he is right guys.
Bent Mauricio suggested more judges just so the robberies can be given greater legitimacy. Not a solution at all, especially for mega fights where bribing a few more judges is a drop in the ocean.
Basically… Nevada commission anything goes
This is the show you need teddy on !
Because they have different sanction bodies. There is no commissioner in boxing!!
Which is a good thing
There are different commisions, unless you're referring to one centralized commision for Boxing being needed.
North sentinel Island
LOL..."Just For Men Pauly" finally growing pair n speakin' against da boss!!....😅
Jimmy Smiths the type of dude to go to the bar after work, get drunk off of three amstel lights and two shots of yager, then want to get in a fight with some other dude over by the jukebox
Probably not considering he was a professional fighter for half his life im sure he’s all good with fighting in bars for free ya dork
@@vinceventura4453 joke ma boi, don’t get your panties bunched up groupie
the ref should be part of the judging either as the third judge or the fourth judge ,what do you guy think
I can see that.
In the UK some non-title fights under a certain number of rounds are judged by the referee. That's how Tyson Fury got the win vs John McDermott.
What if they had team judges . 3 teams of 2 💯
The fact that crowed noises play a part for some judges is just stupid. Not only that, having 3 people on one side of the ring without monitors is always going to produce bad judging
The potential solution to issues with boxing judging and outcomes could lie in artificial intelligence applications like JABBR. JABBR uses AI to accurately count punches landed and missed, offering a more objective measure of a boxer's performance. This technology has the potential to revolutionize scoring in boxing by reducing human error and bias, making fight outcomes fairer and more transparent. Integrating JABBR's precise data could ensure that the true winner is determined by clear-cut metrics, potentially transforming the sport into one where accuracy and fairness reign supreme.
They may have missed an opportunity to grow the channel by having a guest fan join the show each week. Just a thought
They probably will allow call in shows
@@MalevolentBite something that promotes fan growth. I'm open to suggestions
We get it you want to be on the show…
@@RobertOrtiz. You don't?
@@mistermallory94 lol no I don’t… I take this for what it is, Entertainment… these guys don’t want to hear what we have to say. You act as if fighters respect the opinions of fans.
More young people need to go become boxing judges/refs. Get these old heads out of here.
Maybe have 3 ringside judges and 2 AI judges.
You got old, visually impaired, judges who have never even laced up a pair of gloves lol. Let them score smh.
I hate majority draw odd judge is the tie breaker
What if they have 5 or 6 judges at a fight and they all score the fight but some how figure out a way to only use a random 3 of the 6 cards for a bout that goes the distance! Not sure how you can make the 3 random but wonder if this is just a dumb idea? Lol
Yall did Tim wrong by not having him on this one 😂 ok im done commenting
A friend from Spain explained to me that their version of our presidential cabinet (the Council of Ministers) includes a minister in charge of sports. Maybe that's how it is in other governments outside the U.S., as well. In any case, I was blown away.
Obviously, since we're talking about politicians, there'd be corruption. Whether with a Democratic or Republican president appointing a Secretary of Sports, you know they'd always side with Big Money--the promoters, PPV, sanctioning bodies, and Canelo-level superstars--but still, I think we should have such a thing
Spanish sport isn't exactly squeaky clean. Real Madrid and Barcelona wipe their asses with the financial fair play rules
4 judges 1 as altarnet so when you have a clown turn in a card like the Rolly fight you throw his card out and use alternet and tell the people that and the clown dont get paid alternet gets it
Jimmy is a good contribution to the show 👍
No
@@Atmosphere90 eat it pleb
That is why soccer instituted the VAR.
What is VAR??
@@sonnycheeba4536 Video Assistant Referee.
VAR can't stop corruption. It's only made matches go to 100 minutes.
You guys say this about judges but you all are just as biased as commentators
And with the amount of Gambling, the marketing of gambling, the billions or trillions of dollars won and lost each year by gambling there is very little chance to fix boxing. During every broadcast there is a gambling "take" on the bouts, radio, internet and cable shows that push gambling odds.
We don't need to any more f****** judges the scoring needs to change. 10/8 rounds should be encouraged more even if there isn't a knock down along with even rounds for feel out rounds. For example rolly should have gotten 10/8 a lot of those rounds
How about everyone does not see everything the same ¿?
Why wont they make ex pro boxers the judges?????,
The damn corruption has been obvious for a while now but lately is ridiculous. Good job Pauly for keeping it real. 👊🏽😎💯
Dumb people everywhere. In controversial wins they simple have to count the punches landed by round. Make it so can't be done wrong and is easy.
Corruption.
How about an IA software program? It will be more accurate than humans judging, it will be able to differentiate power punches from regular punches and the ones that land vs the ones that don’t and use the algorithm to do pick the winner. 🤷♂️
Guau, Bethy Every When Home en Cruise Sleep To SayZzz
Wama Points
Why you so call experts dont talk about lemos robery ?
Joe Cortez, the famous referee once came up with a pretty good idea: the three judges should be lifted up above the ring, and look down upon it from raised up seating positions. That might not aid the corruption, but it should help the judges do their job much better. Another possibility, my idea, is to allow a non-paid studio or local audience to provide scorecards.
Fuck is you gonna be in the gym for so you can have favorites 😅😅😅😅
$$$$$$$$$!
Tim Tszyu got robbed.
The sports gambling that the new host Jimmy mentioned (whos doing a great job by the way) is the very reason why atlas and paulie cant stand canelo..those two hypocrites lost big when canelo fought GGG and paulie is actually really a lot stupider then he looks repeatedly insulting the viewers on probox when there the lifeblood to the show he works for. Please give that jersey shore reject a day off so he can think about how stupid his comments are
C'mon Chris. My mom who's never watched a fight could judge that fight correctly. This episode made me lose a lot of respect for Algieri. We aren't talking about some extremely technical fight like Leonard Hagler. Most of the fights are obviously one guy beat the crap out of the other guy.
Open scoring per round should be considered in order to put an end to the corruption that exists in this sport that we all love.
I know "corruption" is a part of it, or at least, the practice of promoters paying the bills (5-star hotel, dinners, 1st class flights) for judges--who then feel obligated to "adjust" their score cards accordingly. Of course, the quality control factor can also play a big part of it. If anyone has every boxed--even at the amateur level--then they have probably been the victim of many poorly scored fights. Facts; bad judgements in fights happens a lot--even in non-important (amateur) fights.
So, I think it's a mix of both.
Boxing is decided by opinions and can be corrupt! A new scoring system is needed to get rid of judging and if a fighter lands more punches and more more power punches they should be awarded the round automatically without a judges opinion
sometimes you can hit me with 2 good power punches but I hit u with 1 super duper hook to the face that hurts u and that was all that landed in the round then you're saying you should win that round because u landed 2 power punches to my 1 even though mine did more damage?
So are we really done with sparring sessions??
Nope, sparring sessions will be back
Your question box that asks "Does boxing need to fix judging? ...... Yes, it's time or ..... No, just get rid of the bad judges". Your question "Does boxing need to fix judging?" is possibly a bad play on words, in my opinion. Probox TV should know, and do, better.
Paulie and Teddy are annoying
Llamar Pandora One
Stop user, excuses🙃🙂 I
I can't stand Kimmy Smith
For some reason, it's always the same corrupt/inept judges working both Boxing and Mma fights. It doesn't make sense that former fighters or atleast some younger people aren't trained to be judges by these commisions; so I'd say there's obvious corruption and nepotism going on (I'm looking at you, Adeilade Byrd & Sal D Amato).
Secret society
I think AI technology can replace judges. With everything that is possible now I think it is possible to have AI score fights and award a winner.
Why don’t we have younger judges, with better eye sight, who are MORE familiar with the sport. We have a lot of judges that are up in age who very well may not be seeing things correctly… The corruption is REAL in some cases however…🤷🏾♂️
AI is developing and will be a solution in the future.
With AI is possible to obtain data to validate criteria of the score in any given round.
I got the solution to fix the corrupt judge and pork-barrels. Have a pool of judges, then change the judges at the last minute.
The dumb UFC had Jimmy Smith for a second and they didn't care to use him as a color guy. And he's the best at the job.
Corruption. Mystery solved.
Corrupted judges
AI BOXING JUDGE?
George stop with the burner accounts buddy it’s embarrassing
AI 🤖 judge
Tim Bradley has taken the judging course, he’s better to speak about scoring fights based on the actual criteria.
Hell naw. Have you heard him on an espn broadcast? Dude is insufferable. Andre Ward is much better suited for the role. Bradley gets emotional which leads him to be partial to favorites.
Ford wasn’t the favorite, Valdez was the favorite but was getting his ass kicked before the stoppage. I call it like I see it I get paid no matter who wins buddy. I get passionate not emotional there’s a difference. Btw everyone is biased in every sport we all believe a fighter will win because we have to pick a winner just like you at home!
Tim Bradley also thinks he won the first Pacquiao fight
Cause there’s money involved duh 😂 there’s always one guy who has to stick with his job and look like the jerk and in Canelos case it’s all the judges