Nostalgia Critic: Are Video Games Art?
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2013
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If one painting is art than a GOOD video game like bioshock infinite, the walking dead, silent hill etc. Is also art in my book.
What about those pieces of modern art that are literally just a line on colored canvas that sell for millions of dollars, if those are considered art than any video game can be considered art
epiclazer42
What about cars? What about cakes? What about.... hell come to think of it what isn't art.
bad videogames, bat movies anre bad art, but art after all
Are video games art?
Bigger question: ARE TIGER GAMES VIDEO GAMES?!?!
Even bigger question is your movie the worst film of all time?!?!?!
Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Journey and Okami are definitely high art.
Shadow of the Colossus is in my opinion one of the best games of all time, though Ico was good too.
I love shadow of the colours well got to go I am on a wing of a giant bird thing with low grip
I'd say The Stanley Parable could definitely be called art.
Ocarina of Time
Half Life 2
Super Mario World Advance
Final Fantasy 7
Resident Evil 4
5 Great Pieces of Art right here.
***** I put that. The GBA version.
Rodget Ebert makes me laugh with it though. Considering when he was young he had to battle to convince people films were art.
He did follow up though and said they he hardly considered any films to be art either though, so it seems like he just had a very stringent definition of the word.
Cian
yeah but he refused to call Dark Knight a comic book movie because then he would have to admit to liking a funny book film.
I think that both Thomas Was Alone and the Bioshock Trilogy are great examples of video games as art
Shadow of the Colossus is definitely art
I couldn't agree more. As many people experienced with MGS that games could go beyond the shooting and simple platforming, SotC did that for me
Brbeee I'd say Journey is also art
Journey is a great piece of art. Cutting down to the basics, it's almost an experiment in human behavior...
In many ways GTA is satire of modern society as we know it just as Dantes Inferno or Chaucers Cantebury Tales were satires of their times.
I would say some games have gotten there. I think Dark Souls could be considered high art. Everything from the gameplay, to the level design and even the visuals holds symbolism. Take for example that a large portion of the game involves delving deep underground, defeating tough enemies, then moving high up above ground. This is symbolic of moving into the deeper parts of your mind and dealing with the issues that trouble you, before attempting to lighten your emotions - a feat that is far more difficult.
The short ebook "Are Video Games Art?" by Marc Ryan is the best argument I've read.
Bioshock 2 is definitely art.
Shadow of the colossus. Nuff said
Amen brother.
Thomas Was Alone: Minimalist art
Flower (TGC): Natural art
Half life 2: Epic art
Sonic the Hedgehog (06): Used toilet-paper art
I'd say Spec Ops: The Line is the first piece of Philosophical art I actually 'studied'. It was the first piece that actually made me feel what it intended me to feel, and I was intrigued to say the least. Was it a cheap feeling? Unfortunately yes. Did it drastically change my views, making me want to throw out my FPS's? Nope. But it did shed some light on how video games romanticize violence, and how violent my own collection is. After playing The Line, I went out and bought more filling games. I saved up for a DS, and bought the retro Sonic collections, Phoenix Wright, and Pokemon. All games I shrugged off because I was an adrenaline junky. Now, with them in my collection, I feel more set into ideals. Pokemon Black has some ideas about how Pokemon should be treated in the first game that challenge my ideas about Animal Rights. Phoenix Wright is just a godly game I wish I had bought sooner. Being able to capture me in storytelling and puzzle solving like no other game. Hell, I skip text in Pokemon, but I cringe when I miss a block in Phoenix Wright. And Sonic I bought because people say not to buy the new ones, the old ones are better. Honestly, I feel like Sonic was the first adrenaline junky game before the FPS. Failure leads to disaster much heavier in Sonic than in Halo or COD though. All in all, thanks to Spec Ops, I have opened my doors to a whole new industry, and I have become more mature in my jump.
Spec Ops: The Line the video game equivalent of Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now
Dennydo1 Say it again for the people in the back!
If you are looking for high art in video gamse look no further than Heavy Rain, Red Dead Redemption, any of the Uncharted, or The Last of Us.
John Schwalb Id say that any form of media, be it books, TV, movies, paintings etc. has the ability to invoke strong emotional reactions, then that is art. Video games have made me cry almost as much as movies and books. It honestly is a travesty that video games have not been elevated to "high art" status by now.
If you ask me Zeno blade chronicles is art
How on earth did I forget mass effect
I dont think uncharted is art...It is way too along the lines
So is the Mona Lisa all it is is a portrait but it looks good
Video games aren't a specific genre of art, but an amalgamation of other types of art. Cartoonists, sketch artists, painters, graphic designers; animators, both 3D and 2D; actors, both voice and physical. The "game" part of video games is barely 30% of the entire package nowadays.
Silent Hill 2 made me think a lot, Syberia made me cry, Monkey Island made me laugh, Metal Gear excited me more than any major action film, the music of Skyrim gave me chills, and the look of Riven gave me the same excitement as any great painting would... videogames combine all art forms and add interactivity to the mix.
Are video games considered high art?
Why yes, it is considered high art, anyone who played "Red Dead Redemption" or "Bioshock infinite" or "Call Of Duty:World At War" will know what i really mean.
Read Dead redemption is the only one I agree,though it's qwerky as hell because of Dan Houser Participation, Bioschock infinite is a "popular twist mess of bullshit" covered with bad characters, bad writing, and overly popular used twists, and Call of Duty World at war is not any better.
Try Silent Hill 2, Killer7,Shadows of The Collossus, Rez, Journey,Deadly premonition ( even though the gameplay sucks), Beyond Good & Evil, Flower Sun and Rain, the Zero Escapes Games,Portal, Neotokyo,Deus Ex,Fallout 2,ICO,MDK, Katamary Damacy, BTW I didn't mention Indie Games because otherwise, the list would be really long, and hell, I don't even consider my self as a gamer.
And Damn,even after playing these games, I don't consider them as art, Video Games mustn't be considered as "high art" it's a low art, for majorly low people, a time waster.
7Heavensmile I have played COD WAW, and i shed a tear when Roebuck/Polonsky died, the same with Red Dead Redemption, my definition of high-art, are games that plays with your feelings or touches them.
Derpy guy nothing about the gun porn that is cod is artistic
David Brodock That is after COD MW2 came out, but the past Call Of Duty games were quite nice and new, but now Call Of Duty has completed its slide into that dark unpleasent pit where there is only meaningless violence and gun porn. (zero punctuation closing theme)
Cod is not a gun porn, it's not because a game has been over the top for years that it actually sucks, the first were descent ones.
Spec ops the line
It's games like Halo, Call of Duty, Mario, Sonic, etc that are pretty timeless.
I searched this argument on Google and this video (on your site) came up. I'm not into these kinds of videos wherein people express their long opinion on their take about a certain subject, but when I watched this video, I had to go to CZcams and search the vid, and click Like. It was the least I can do to say I enjoyed watching this video. I have to say, you won me over when you said that "Even those who disagree on the matter, should still keep an open mind about it being possible" :)
somebody likes bioshock infinite
Did anyone notice that the video the games he is showing are from gaming channels like achievement hunter.
came to comments looking for this...mission complete returning to base
Yeh ah and angry joe
That was a good review to watch. Personally I'm surprised something like minecraft didn't come up in the vid, which as a platform allows for art to emerge in endless ways, but still good vid.
I just figured it out! How to spot a casual gamer! They are the people who doesn't play anything but Wii or Kinect games, but for some reason are amazing at it!
omg, he used roosterteeth footage >:D
Where? I didn't see it.
Spar10Leonidas I think it was the WoW scene where the man ran into the inn and the girl blew a kiss at him, that was an old music video made to Here Without You. I think that was one of Rooster Teeth's early vids.
Galamere Oh, I never saw that one.
Spar10Leonidas it's a great little machineama music vid, though sad
Also at 4:35
The first video game where I felt I could consider video games on par with art was "Dreamweb". It's a very basic story that's not overly complex but the music, drama, and tension are astounding. Especially for an adventure game from the very early 90's
Demon/ Dark Souls is a piece of art, in my opinion
During the Guild Wars 2 skit (with the dancing character and the GIGANTIC dragon) was that taken from the Angry Joe Show? I think I remember him saying he found a way to defeat the dragon by dancing and then it started killing everyone so he tried running away (or something, haven't seen it in a while)
I liked that little bit at the end with the picture of the dude playing the video game, cracked me up!
There's a tiny little RPG Maker game called OFF. I'm not sure how obscure it is, but it's not super popular. It has bizarre music, and strange, almost monochrome visuals. This game is actually one of the first games that comes to mind when I think of video games as art, because it has a strange story that is filled to the brim with symbolism and metaphor, to the point where the "true meaning" of the game, if it even has one, is nearly indecipherable.
A lot of people, when talking about art, talk about how the meaning of art should be defined by the individual viewer, and OFF definitely fits the bill.
Every time you said 'choice', I was screaming "Interaction! Not choice!" at the screen. Games don't always offer choice, but every single game is dependant on Interaction.
The first videogame I considered art was Final Fantasy Three US. The graphics were very good for the time, but the story, the character development and especially the soundtrack were mindblowing. The music is still the best in any game until today. As for the writing and direction, in this game you found the most emotional scene in a videogame ever, when Celes tries to comit suicide when the last person she could hold on to dies in a postapocalyptic world. Touched me way more then Aeries in FF7.
He played the Michael Jackson experience pretty damn well!
To me personally games like destiny, Halo, wow, Bioshock and the last of us is art as they create worlds that we have never seen before, enemies we are excited and also scared to fight. They create stories, characters and experiences that sometimes movies can't create.
Time heals all wounds and solves almost all problems.
Exactly! Journey is the milestone that mark a before and an after in this discussion if a video game is art or not.
I REALLY want to see the NC play The Stanley Parable.
Remember what they where saying about FF7 when it came out "There greatest cinematic story of this year is not a movie but GAME" I always remember hearing that because it really was the point when i thought games had crossed the doorway into becoming high art.
Great video. I think the question is a rather easy one... but you did a nice job talking through what it is to be high art, etc... I'll have to sneakily send this to my mother-in-law.... WELL DONE!
I always enjoy watching your opinion videos Doug. You state a fair opinion and give your reasons for it so we can understand why you feel that way, and almost always you have good reasoning. And, in my own opinion, I feel as though there are several if not a few videogames that have reached the point of being high art. Games such as shadow of the colossus or Bioshock are easy examples, with games like cod being graffiti, nice to look at but not high art
Looking at most Atlus games, Shadow of the Colossus, and Journey, there's almost not even a question here.
Shadow of the Colossus has to be one of the most beautiful works of art I have ever witnessed. Such a beautiful game. I hope the Critic plays it some day.
Critic as a fan of your work and as a life long fan of video games I thank you for your stance on this highly debated topic. As for a game that might sway you, I respectfully ask if you'll look at a game called Shadows of the Colossus. I would think you might enjoy it and find it to be an artistic endeavor of the highest form. Thank you.
In terms of gameplay as art, I point to MGS3, Portal and Bioshock. All 3 challenge the concepts of the player's actions whether it was trusting glados, killing The Boss, finding out that everything you did was not of your free will; it uses your interactions with the game to alter your perception of the events.
I consider videogames the highest form of art since it requires ( most of the time )
- Intelligent design ( Art )
- Music
- Storytelling
- Imagination
- Technical design
- And the ability to interact with the video game or change it.
I agree with Doug though it will eventually be respected as high art like movies.
I think the "Fine Art" that Doug describes in this video is the art defined by the philosopher, Immanuel Kant, in his theory on aesthetics.
Art haha the funy thing is i once said : "A videogame is often composed of multiple arts that are brought togheter in a perfect harmony"..
High art of the digital era.
I'd actually argue that Shadow of the Colossus is an easy choice to argue video games as being 'high art', simply because there's a philosophy behind it, and a deeper meaning than just "hey, gotta kill all these monsters". Most if not all of them are victims of circumstance as YOU, Wander, is the one seeking them out to slay them in an attempt to resurrect Mono. It's also the fact that the game leaves so much to the imagination that saying it's an artistic accomplishment is a decent summary.
That is arguably one of the best arguments on the subject that I have seen thus far.
There are two games to me that summarize a shift in the gaming experience -- Dear Esther and Minecraft. They are very different from each other -- both represent the different directions that gaming can go. There are plenty out there that break the mold, but these two stand out in my mind as the best examples.
while games are not viewed as art, same as a movie is artistic and not art as a sculpture or painting, the fact that it is remembered in the hearts of all those who appreciate it, makes it a phenomenal creation that displays man's ingenuity and skill
for me, the prime example is Warcraft 3, enjoyable as the gameplay is, i remember it not only for that, but for it's campaign which i played 5 times so far, for the story alone, leaving the mechanics, hidden secrets and graphics as a secondary part of the whole
Bioshock, Bioshock Infinite, Undertale, Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Journey, Flower, Spec Ops: The Line, This War of Mine, all great examples of games that definitely go above and beyond in terms of storytelling and being thought-provoking.
Halo? Walking Dead? Skyrim? Hell, even Sims?
+100 points to the Nostalgia Critic. :3
Why is this even a question? Everything about games is art.
not to mention that the game does something most forms of art can't even do, include the player. They get to choose what to do at what time at their own leisure similarly to a painting and a book, but with all those other elements mixed in at the same time. So it's even got its own little part so it's not just a combination.
the same way a hunk of clay or jars of paint does. I've seen videos of things people made in Minecraft that made me go "That's Awesome" the same way a great drawing or music has
dude... you summed up my opinion in one 11:55 video, and did it in a much more profound way than i would have.
You're killing me Doug, you brought back memories of "The Walking Dead."
No man should ever have to experience that kind of sadness again!
Grand Theft Auto 3, Mortal Kombat 2, Call of Duty 4, Symphony of The Night, Civilization 4, System Shock 2, Far Cry 2, Half Life 2, Portal, Organ Trail Director's Cut, Hotline Miami, Counter Strike Source. Your Move, brother.
I can very well see games like Okami, Half Life, Portal (debatable) and Journey actually being percieved as a form of high art in the future just because of the fact that they had such a huge impact on modern culture in the same way films like Clockwork Orange and The Godfather had. The Video Game is still a fairly new concept despite being almost 50 years old and still has yet to reach its full potential as an art form like film has in its almost century long existence despite its fast technological growth.
Can't judge until you've played one of these games.
Journey,Thomas was Alone, Mass Effect, Zelda, The Walking Dead, Bioshock (1, 2 and Infinite), Tomb Raider 2013, Okami, Silent Hill 2, Amnesia, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, Alice: Madness Returns, Grim Fandango, Heavenly Sword, Guild Wars 2, Batman: Arkham City, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Portal, Earthbound, Final Fantasy 6 and 7, Red Dead Redemption, Spec Opps: The Line, Metro, Papo and Yo, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Flower.
Speaking of the Mother series, I'd say Earthbound fits the bill. If not solely for the final boss sequence, which was inspired by a traumatic event in the life of the game's lead designer. He expressed that through his choice of medium in a way that still resonates with people.
Doug nailed it without saying it outright. Video games aren't art, and neither are movies, literature, paintings or sculpture. They're all media. It's up to the creator to use the medium to create a work of art. There has been a huge amount of influential art in the medium of video games, especially in its short history.
I could not agree more; the message is even up to multiple interpritations which is the mark of high art; I just mentioned visuals as even a casual gamer could understand that aspect.
From creating a thought provoking experience of the choices of Mass Effect Trilogy, to the emotional landscapes of Bioshock Infinite, to the pure horror and disturbing imagery of Amnesia we see the potential for great masterpieces in the videogame entertainment form. Combining what is considered as high art (Music, Image, Writing) but adding a twist with inclusion of gameplay. If you can't forge that into high art, I can't see what you can.
I would say even Pong is a form of art. I have very loose ideas of art, but you can't deny someone put the time in to program an idea they had, tennis with 3 white rectangles on a black backdrop.
Just by playing Journey... Just feeling that marvelous world passing in front of my eyes made clear to me the answer to this question. It is art. Greatly made, made with care, passion... Simply, art.
I feel like an example of video games as art comes in the form of Watch_dogs with it's complex plot interludes, from cyber terror, crime bosses and the emotionally gripping death of his niece, it invokes emotions.
If only the main character was as interesting, maybe the game's hype would have lasted a bit farther than the initial release date.
Well, you seemed to have missed out on his other editorials. Where've you been?
BTW, I find the DR crew pretty entertaining. Okay, it's not ROFLCOPTER levels of hilarity but it does amuse me.
Nice videos Doug.
In my opinion Dear Esther came close but it's not a game as you'd expect it to be, it's basicly a story with an environment to walk through.
keep up the good work!
Radiant Historia, 999, Nier, Katawa Shoujo, Corpse Party.
All hidden gems.
I like how Nostalgia Critic gave his view as a non-gamer.
Objective, precise, unbiased.
Exactly how it should be done.
Art is entirely subjective. I don't see weird abstract structures and useless chairs or whatever to be art. But it is an art form and a real professions. There's people that just make random stuff out of trash and sell it as artwork.
Does it make YOU feel? That's the biggest question you should ask yourself. There's video games that have made me happy, cry, smile, stand up and yell out of pure joy etc and some games has kept me thinking about what happened for months and even years.
Video games to me is art. Just like cars can be art to some people.
It's kinda like saying that music isn't art.
In a way, video games is one of the most artistic mediums out there. Because it combines ALL stereotypical forms of art into one, painters ( conceptart/illustration ), modelers, musicians, actors, writers etc you get my point. So how can anyone sit there and tell me that games aren't art?
Kudos on taking such a firm stance Doug. Really it is true that only the test of time will tell what becomes high art and what doesn't. And really, who of knows what video game will become that? For the first decade after it's release, Citzen Kane was widely panned by critics and now it's considered by many to be the greatest film ever made (a sentiment I myself don't necessarily share, but I do agree it deserves high praise.)
.
That all being said...pfffft! That ending dance! XD
I think part of what keeps games away from high art status is also the thing that makes them special: the high degree of audience participation or collaboration with the creator. And let's face it: the average game player, or person, is no artist.
But it will come in the future, as the players become more sophisticated, and demand more. At the beginning of movies, audiences at first thought anything filmed was real, and could only understand what was essentially photographed stage plays.
Okami is LITERALLY an oil painted legend brought to reality. As a video game. THAT'S art!
But if you can put a bunch of decorations on a car, it becomes a float, which is art. Its a multipurpose piece of art.
For any1 in the U.S, the national art museum (smithsonian) set up for an exibit named the art of video games, explore the idea, and showed many games to prove it. There is a book under the same title as the exibit made by the same people, so check it out.
No intention of trolling; Shadow of the Colossus is one of my favourite games and it does tell a great story story. I just wanted to talk about the visuals first as the message requires you to play it to understand it, and I think more people need to.
as commentary goes, there is a LOT of games out there to note. The bioshocks are actually a good example of it: the first one criticize a purely capitalist society, the second one a communist society, and the third one a religious society. The games were made to attack the extrems and also the stories would end up being very touching for some (like me) and, especially near the end, very interesting and complex (seriously, if you didn't play all the way through bioshock infinite, you missed a LOT. So can games be high art? I think that yes. They bring emotion, commentary, and make you immerse in their world through participation. It's a wonderful media that deserves the recognition.
To me, Klonoa 2 is art.
The music is beautiful. One being so soothing, it might send you to sleep, or be epic, like the boss theme to Leorina the sky pirate
The character designs are amazing but have flaws, like being naive, clumsy, or having one of the good guys stealing stuff just because he thought it might be useful.
The level designs are just stunning. The temple gardens, the haunted house section at the theme park. The maze of memories (it's like you're walking through a M.C Escher painting) Even the war torn city of Volk is amazing to look at.
Well Doug, that's actually a really good look into the question itself. Really good points have been made, especially toward the end about movies. Call of Duty's multiplayer will always be mindless, but the campaign isn't, honestly. It comes with a very serious overtone, with some slapstick or comedy thrown in to make the character seem more human, rather than a pile of pixels. Sometimes these fall flat, but the same can be said for movies. If that's art, then so is a videogame. Even pong. :P
Perhaps one of the games that was designed to be more than a game was 'i have no mouth and I must scream' based on the short story with the same name by Harlan Ellison. In fact he was closely involved with the design and lent his voice for the caracter AM, the hate filled supercomputer. This game was not only entertaining. At times it was touching and at times it was harrowing and disturbing. I think this game came close to becoming an art piece.
The Walking Dead, Corpse Party:Blood Covered, Half-Life 1 and 2, Portal 2 and Persona 3 I definitely consider art. Their psychological impact on you, their immersion, their dependency of choices and their strategic game mechanics make you feel like you are in the universe you are playing, and that's a feeling that I've never had with any other form of media.
I'm glad he took this seriously instead of cramming in the Demo Reel cast or some cross over and trying to make humor out of it. This is the kind of review I was waiting for a long time.
I haven't played many games, never had the opportunity to really. But i agree that they are a higher art form. It takes a lot of skill and dedication to produce something that not only looks amazing, but also has a great story line. While they are often used as a form of escape, many higher art forms are, and that is a good thing. If it is so good that it makes you forget about stuff for a while, and you can just enjoy this alternate reality, it is a great art form.
I agree with this argument. Whether its the graphical approach, gameplay, story, or overall style, the game can be art. Shadow of the colossus is art for the graphics, gameplay, and interesting story. Bastion for its watercolor graphics. Superbrothers sword & sworcery ep for retro style, audio visual experience. That's art. Also, If the game tries something not commonly seen today, it should at least be recognized.
Bagatelle No. 25 in A minor- Beethoven
Also known as "Fur Elise"
One important observation to make is the community in society is aging and as this happens the tastes of this community evolves or elevates. What was considered a great game 5 years ago is often laughed at 5 years later. What's changed? The age of the audience. I know there are exceptions which are seen as classics that are appreciated no matter the age of the gamer but I'm speaking in a general sense.
wow, didn't expect the old 'rpg vs rpe' dilemma to pop up... Doug always gives such great reviews/debates.
My answer: yes. Check out "To the Moon" by Freebird Games. If that story isn't worthy of an Oscar I'm not sure what is.
I think that flaw in his argument is the abundance of choice in games like the Sims. I would argue that the games with heavier narrative imbued with theme's, motifs, character development and story arcs are more closer to art than sandbox games (more directed). They would then be in the same field as books, movies, plays, painting, sculpture, music, etc.
I always thought that this question had already been answered with Shadow of the Colossus.
I think their is so much potential in the gaming medium. Its a truly interactive medium that can convey emotion through game feel. Games like Silent Hill 2, Limbo, and Amnesia the Dark Decent can make you feel so weak and vulnerable in a way that no other medium can. The sad thing about this medium is the human "Power Fantasy" has been over done. Its the staple of gaming escapism. In order to push games into high art, we must express different emotions via game play.
I would argue that either the first Bioshock or, a little earlier, Shadow of the Colossus, were probably the first real examples of games as art.
NICE... I'm literally doing a research paper on this subject....WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!!
nice video and very helpful!
And this is where my favorite game comes in with gusto, Minecraft, It has no story, but it lets you, think it up, your not told that your an adventurer, you make that chose, you can be destructive, you can be creative. The game doesn't give you guide lines, and not to even mention the fact that the modding community goes even further with this. They can enhance or change an experience, examples being Tale of Kingdom and the Aether II: Genusis of the Void. They sound like games, but there not.