The Discomfort of Evening by Marieke Lucas Rijneveld | International Booker Prize 2020 review
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- čas přidán 21. 03. 2020
- Hi, guys, it's Kamil here and it's time for the third review of International Booker Prize 2020 longlisted book, The Discomfort of Evening by Marieke Lucas Rijneveld, translated from Dutch by Michele Hutchison.
This video is part of the project of reading and reviewing all International Booker Prize 2020 longlisted books, the next one coming up, The Memory Police.
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Goodreads:
The Discomfort of Evening by Marieke Lucas Rijneveld by Marieke Lucas Rijneveld, Michele Hutchison (Translator) / the-discomfort-of-evening
Reading Schedule:
Reading and Posting Schedule
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Sunday, 15th of March:
The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree by Shokoofeh Azar
Review: • The Enlightenment of t...
Goodreads: / 35708940
Wednesday, 18th of March
The Adventures of China Iron by Gabriela Cabezón Cámara
Review: • The Adventures of Chin...
Goodreads: / the-adventures-of-chin...
Sunday 22nd, of March
The Discomfort of Evening by Marieke Lucas Rijneveld, Michele Hutchison (Goodreads Author) (Translator)
/ the-discomfort-of-evening
Sunday 29th of March
The Memory Police by Yōko Ogawa, Stephen Snyder (Translator)
/ the-memory-police
Sunday 5th of April
The Eighth Life: for Brilka by Nino Haratischwili, Charlotte Collins (Translator),
/ the-eighth-life
Thursday the 9th of April
Mac and His Problem by Enrique Vila-Matas, Margaret Jull Costa (Translator), Sophie Hughes (Translator)
/ mac-and-his-problem
Monday 13th of April
Red Dog by Willem Anker
/ red-dog
Saturday 18th of April
Tyll by Daniel Kehlmann
/ tyll
Wednesday 22nd of April
The Other Name: Septology I-II (Septologien #1-2) by Jon Fosse,
/ the-other-name
Sunday 26th of April
Hurricane Season by Fernanda Melchor
/ temporada-de-huracanes
3rd of May
Little Eyes by Samanta Schweblin
/ little-eyes
10th of May
Faces on the Tip of My Tongue by Emmanuelle Pagano, Jennifer Higgins (Translator), Sophie Lewis (Translator)
/ faces-on-the-tip-of-my...
17th of May
Serotonin by Michel Houellebecq
/ serotonin
#internationalbooker2020 #finestfiction #translatedfiction
I just finished reading this book today. I couldn't put it down once I got really into it. It was such a gripping story and although uncomfortable at times I did not find it as bad as I was expecting it to be given some of the comments I had read online. Yes it was graphic in places and what was going on was horrific but in context with the story as a whole it didn't seem out of place or added in for the sake of it. I think primarily this is a book about grief and how when a child dies those left behind often suffer irreparable damage. In this story the parents are so caught up in their own emotions and overwhelming grief that they almost forget that they have three other children to bring up. The children are not allowed to discuss their feelings or even mention their brother. It is like he never existed yet his coat is still on the hook and his chair is still at the table. The family being very religious and strict about religion compounded the upbringing of the children. Born into a family where religion was everything, strict parents and also living on a farm where work never stops these children never had it easy. In many ways the children were just extensions of the livestock. They were animals to be kept healthy and to be checked over but never fussed over. Our lead protagonist was perhaps hardest hit because she blamed herself for her brothers death. She bargained with God to save her rabbit in the start of the story - let God take her brother rather than the rabbit. A simple request, which seemed harmless enough at the time but when her brother died that request seemed fatal. Later in the book we learn she had the opportunity to go after her brother but she didn't. Again more blame. It is understandable that the children became messed up. They had no role models and no one to parent them. They learnt about sex from one another for example. The brother became a very cruel person murdering animals and tormenting his sisters and the school friend. In all their acts there was always a purpose. They either wanted to bring the dead brother back to life or make their parents love one another again. This was played out through various sexual acts as well as the idea that if the two toads mated their parents would mate and create another child to replace the one they lost. I think these ideas were naive and only worked because the narrator was a child. If the narrator was an adult these theories would have seemed stupid. We as adults know that problems cannot be solved that easily and that another child cannot replace a lost child. I think there was an innocence that would not have been present in the book had it of had an adult narrating it. Although the children were messed up emotionally, mentally and physically they still had childlike qualities. In a way time stopped when their brother died. It was interesting that even when other adults interacted with the family they never saw the need to step in and help or to raise the fact that there was a problem. The vet for example came to the farm on many occasions and never mentioned to the parents that the children were not coping or behaving as children should. If anything the vet was creepy in that he seemed to take a special interest in our narrator to the point where you felt something very disturbing might occur given half a chance. I found this book upsetting, emotional, gripping, moving and very thought provoking. It was a very microscopic look at a family locked in grief - a grief from which there literally was no escape. All the characters talked individually about running away or dying yet as a collective they never really expressed their true feelings. If this book had been narrated by an adult I don't think it would have been as unsettling or disturbing. Coming from a child you got innocence, honesty and the starkness of the life they were leading. Would our narrator have said all the things she said at her age I think she would because she had seen more than a girl of that age should have seen, she was sensitive so picked up on more going on around her as well and consumed by her own guilt I think she was probably wiser than her years but also because of her sheltered life and upbringing rather naive. The boundaries between right and wrong were very blurred in this book but maybe that was deliberate because it made you ask yourself what would you do in that situation. Yes the family needed help and yes they needed some sort of official intervention but some people are so isolated and remote that they do slip through the net. I thought the ending was fitting and didn't feel at all out of place with the rest of the book. For me this book focused on grief and also on what you can and cannot control in life - hence the passages about constipation that feature quite frequently. For our narrator her bowel movements were something she could take charge of unlike the death of her brother over which she had no control and over the disintegration of the family, which try as she might she was never able to fix. Some things are too broken to ever be mended. Overall this book was impressive, an enjoyable read because it posed so many interesting questions and hard hitting because of its subject matter. I loved it a lot more than I expected to. The writing was beautiful in places and also very spare in others. A perfect combination. Some have argued that there are scenes in the book that are just there to sensationalize the story and to get it more press - I would disagree, without those scenes no matter how distressing, the book would not work. You need those episodes to express how dark those children's lives had become and how messed up they had now were. I think the setting, the lifestyle, religion and the air of grief that is always hanging over them makes those scenes possible and completely in context with the story. Personally I loved this book.
Hi John, thank you for such a deliberate commentary. I agree with most of the comments, I also feel that extreme scenes in the novel didn’t feel most of the time as something added for the shock value and that speaks volume about Rijneveld skills as a story teller.
Interesting point regarding parallels of livestock and the children being extension of it. I don’t think it’s exactly the same but definitely there are some similarities, and those grew after the death of brother.
Obviously the novel wouldn’t work if the same story was told by an adult, as all the elements you mentioned are only believable when coming from a child, in that framework only the child can be the narrator, but with that come all sort of limitations as well, but with all of them Rijneveld worked so well. Children would have limited understand of what is taking place for instance, and therefore a lot of creepy scenes might have been over or underplayed by the narrator, we would never know, but that was surely intentional.
I didn’t exactly love the novel but it’s definitely a strong one in the bunch and very memorable.
Just read this book . Thank you so much for this review John and your vlog Kamil . I agree with both your comments . I'm not Dutch and a lot of the book speaks to Dutch culture such as the rabbit story , being based on a very popular cruel Dutch satire song about eating a rabbit for Christmas that a child could take literally .. ( thanks to you tube for this ) but I still have been profoundly affected by the story . For me it's not just about the personal devastation of loss but how loss and damage mutates in different and peverse ways if no-one is able to express it because of an overlying and repressive orthodoxy . The narrator had to be a child for this reason but I agree the author gave Jas too much adult insight on occasion ... Great work of art but not sure if use the word enjoy to describe my experience . BTW really good choice to use chronic constipation as a somatizing trope , very common but first time I've seen it in a novel .
Hello. I have a question?
If we have to apply a literary theory on this book, which theory would be best suitable to apply??
The Discomfort of Evening is a stunning novel that does what a child’s eye narrative should do: reveal that, in the face of adult folly, a ten year old can show us the world as it really is.
It was a bit too direct for my taste but I do think it's a great piece of work, maybe just not 100% up my alley.
@@WhatKamilReads it is one of those heavy books since the protagonist is a 10 year old, I do understand. I have recommended the book to a friend of mine I am waiting for his feedback. Great work once again
instablaster
this book is not just dark but deep too......
I'm new to your book reviews and I immensely enjoy your work. I just finished reading this and I was having a hard time wrapping my head around it. It had a lot of analogies for death and this is my fav:
"Now he asks me whether I still remember the story of the man who got on his bike one day and rode to the edge of the world. As he was cycling he discovered that his brakes didn’t work, which was a relief to him because now he couldn’t stop for anything or anyone. The good man cycles off the edge of the world and tumbles and tumbles, the way he’s been tumbling all his life, but now there’s no end to it. That’s what death will feel like - like an endless fall without getting back up again, without plasters. "
Thank you very much for your kind words. This is a dark and even more so a very disturbing novel. I do think that it's serious achievement for such a young writer, but I did have problems with sexually explicit content at the end of a day. Nonetheless that is probably what Rijneveld tried to make a reader feel - discomfort and unease.
I just read Barry Pierce's review in the Irish Times, and listen to yours, and now I think this is my kind of book. But not right now. When I'm more in the mood for something that's traumatizing.
Now, I read his review too. Quite brilliant. Had no idea Barry writes for Irish Time now. Very impressive. And referring to trauma, this definitely is not a book to spark up your mood, good one for better times then.
Despite my dislike of all things agrarian in literature, your review has whetted my appetite even more and it's going to the top of my TBR pile. Many thanks Kamil and keep up the good work! :-)
Oh Mark I will be so interested to hear what you have to save about this one, when you get around to reading it. And thank you for the encouragement :)
Thank you, Kamil, love your International Booker series :)
Thank you Olga for watching, hugely appreciated.
I love your background!!
Came across this book in a bookshelf but I was so unsure about it and I didn't buy it. Thanks for this review! You've highlighted good points and I love how clear you are. Will probably pick this up for when I wanna be sad lol.
I'm totally looking forward to your review of "The Memory Police", I own two of Ogawa's works and I love her writing.
I enjoy the writing a lot too, it’s so smooth that acquires almost a silk like quality
Hello Kamil! I'm so glad to have found your channel and I love the content of this video (this is the first video I watched). So crisp and yet so expressive!
Thank you so much for your kind words
I just finished reading this novel. It's extraordinary. I wish I had seen this review before I read it, as I had absolutely no idea about the plot apart from that it was set on a dairy farm during the Foot and Mouth outbreak in 2001. It goes to some really dark places and it reminded me of The Cement Garden by Ian McEwan. I wasn't aware of the darker elements but I think the language of the novel navigates these themes pretty well. But like you, I spent the last third open-eyed, and turning the pages like crazy, but I can't quite decide if that's a triumph of the writing, or my own desire for controversy. Which, I think is the point.
Interesting thought. I didn't think about it from the desire for controversy angle.
I thought it had a bit too much of the shocking factor for my taste, on the other hand, it was also strong literary-wise so it wasn't the case of trying to cover the lack of talent with controversy. Having said that I prefer generally a bit more subtle works and therefore I was not buying it in its entirety.
Hi, Kamil. I recently discovered your channel and I enjoy very much your reviews. I was attracted by this in particular because I recently read this novel and it has become one of my favorites so far. I understand it’s not for everyone and, yes, it’s a very dark book that makes you feel unease, sometimes even nauseated. I also understand that the sexual content might be too much for some people, but I appreciated Rijneveld’s bravery for writing about abuse inside the family. It’s something that happens and it’s not talked or wrote about enough- I’m talking about the older brother who clearly abuses his sisters and Jas’ friend from school. I also thought it was very raw and discomforting, yet brave and powerful, the depiction of the discovery of sexuality in puberty. The siblings are totally being emotional neglected by their parents and I can understand why they become like this; why they discover their sexuality in such a dark way, even an abusive and violent way.
Thank you for your reviews and videos!
And congratulation, it has won. I agree with everything you said and I do applaud the writer for their bravery. I'm planning to pick it up by the end of the year to read again looking forward to see what I'll get out from it upon the second reading.
Exactly my thoughts and impression on this book. Great review.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This book changed the way I look at caramel sauce. I will never be able to unimagine that. LOL. But an insane read this is.
Kamil thank you for your hard work and informative, insightful videos. I look at the Booker International list every year and think well there it is! You have made the books accessible to me by hearing the history leading up to them and your analysis of them. I feel confident that I could choose a book from this list and enjoy it thanks to you.
Deborah it’s so rewording to read a comment like yours. Thank you so much it makes me want to continue. The reading and reviewing part is great, recording and editing well let’s say I’m not in love with that part that much, it’s worth it though when I receive a comment like this one.
You are doing such a great job with these reviews. :)
Thank you 🙏
I have read the German translation and I've heard that it is not only better than the English one, but also closer to the original. I was very impressed by the book and I will definitely never forget it. The issues I had, were the same you mentioned as well. I couldn't always believe, that this is the voice of a child. I also found the amount of metaphors too heavy and not always successful.
This has been such an interesting set of books so far!
I wanted to say thank you but then realised that it’s not my doing:) yes the selection is really good so far. I’m half way through The Memory Police and quite content too that it’s on the list.
Thanks for your summary, very informative. I´m reading the english version at the moment but will try to get the original dutch copy .
Thank you, lucky you to read it in original :)
Wow! Another great book from the list..... You've made an entertaining video out of such a dark story..... I love dark stories..... But, it is getting really hard to concentrate on a book tho..... And buying a book is not an option anymore..... Everything is going crazy..... And expensive too..... Lets hope it will be okay and calm..... And I can read these amazing books and watch your amazing videos in peace..... God this year!
Oh thank you and yes, the year is crazy so far. I hope you are safe and well.
thanks for this review i am going to start this today .
Thank you for watching
Great to hear your summary and background about the book, as usual. I'm a bit conflicted about it as well though thinking about it further it annoys me that she describes such a traumatic scene occurring with her friend and then acts like it's no big deal with no consequences. But overall the novel felt too meandering to me to work as a satisfying story. Also, I found it hard to read so many descriptions about constipation. 😬
"Summary"?! I was trying for a review !:) I'm just teasing you. I love receiving your comments. I believe that her behavior in terms of the scene you're referring to, would be shocking if everything else didn't happen, but considering that this is just another one in the escalating nightmare, her behavior in that framework made absolute sense to me. What did you think, was it a nightmarish fantasy or was there a sexual abuse (the caw shed's scenes)? Same with the vet, the scenes with him were also very disturbing.
@@WhatKamilReads Maybe I'm too literal in how I read, but to me it felt like the scene in the cow shed was presented as if it really did happen. So that it was sort of dropped in and then not followed with any consequences came across as dismissive. But if it was a hallucinatory or exagerated version of an experience through her very subjective perspective than perhaps the extreme action she engages in doesn't have any consequence. Nevertheless, what bothered me the most about the novel was the ending which felt needlessly dramatic. I'm aware though that I'm picking apart this novel in a much stronger way than if it weren't prize nominated. Definitely shines a spotlight on what's otherwise a really interesting debut and I appreciate your different point of view.
I also feel like the scenes in the caw shed did happen (father and Obbe). Of course it might be that that was a nightmarish fantasy, but then since she was a narrator everything else might have been. I don’t feel though that any of it needed to be followed up, even if did happen, as she would be, due to all of that so disturbed, that it’s hard to expect from her a logical consequence in her thoughts or narration patterns, as abuse is being normalised. Its also a sacrifice in order to get back to pre-Mathias-death’s period. Abuse happens we move onto the next. I guess I don’t expect from a novel like this one as much logic as I would expect from a narration by an adult person in quasi normal social conditions.
Thank you for your review. I just finished and kept thinking of Kassandra and the Wolf. Have you read that?
No I have not and havent even heard of it. I Need to look it up
Hi Kamil! I love your analysis of this book. "Jas" in Dutch means "coat", which I find something that is lost in translation. I liked the book very much, but i found it very cruel.
Oh, I had no idea, it definitely was lost in the translation. Thank you so much for letting me know.
I'm unsure about this one, it does sound interesting. I finished Memory Police today and my mind will probably gnaw on that for a day before another one....thinking of either The 5th Child next or one of Levy's. After Ogawas themes I feel like I need maybe just the back of a cereal box🤔😂
Oh I'm uploading the video review of The Memory Police, and I can understand you want to have some time off, but The 5th Child as much as I love this book will definitely not make you calmer if you pick it up as the next one :) haha on the cereal box.
@@WhatKamilReads Im going to start Lessing's today....🤪
Thanks for the great review. I have very mixed feelings about the book. The prose was impressive and I liked how they portrayed the psychological impact of grief - though I agree with you that Jas didn't read like a 10-year old child. It was a deeply sad book. But I also felt so incredibly uncomfortable while reading the book. I think it could have still achieved its narrative purpose with less vivid descriptions of human and animal bodily filth (though it is impressive that they did it so well that I could sometimes smell the farm in my head while reading) and the sexual overtones. In terms of literary influence, I feel it is in the lineage of Dutch author Jan Wolkers.
I have never read Jan Wolkers, thank you for pointing that out. I believe it’s always an interesting discussion to have, when too much is too much when it’s an artistic choice. Your feelings were shared by me and probably will be by most of readers (the sane ones or at least close to that spectrum 😊 as I don’t want to self diagnose myself) but I’m sure Rijnveld knew that and decided to do what he did, then the question remains if we should discuss it in a spectrum of quantity as if adjusted would affect the whole artistic endeavour... what do you think?
@@WhatKamilReads That is a good point you raise. I think the reason why I struggle with it is because I am not sure I understand what narrative purpose Rijneveld pursues through this use of graphic and disturbing violence and sexuality. Was it fundamental to the story they were trying to tell? Or was part of the motivation the desire to shock the reader just for the sake of it? Another thing that comes into play for me, is that there is a category of Dutch and Flemish literature which uses vulgar, coarse or graphic language as an aesthetic rather than a narrative choice, and for some also as a means to shock the 'bourgeois reading circles'. I have read to many books like that and it is starting to grate on me. But obvisouly that is a very personal perspective.
I just finished reading this book, and came here because I thought it would be interesting to see what other people made of it. I have to say, just like you I feel unsure as to whether I liked it or not. I also felt extremely uncomfortable with the sexual parts, but there's a passage on p236 which I think explains some of what that's about; "In the end you'll see wonderful colours...". But it seems like the author always wants to leave a sense of uncertainty.
We'll see if my opinion changes a little over the next few days, but by and large I don't think this novel really appealed to me. The language and imagery is extremely vivid, but it's used to paint quite grotesque images which don't really appeal to my literary aesthetic.
After a few weeks I find it a worthy effort, and a promise of a great talent, it wont be something though that will stay for long with me eventually. Sure when I look at it I will have no problems remembering what it was about but overall as capturing as it was, the shock value was stronger than the message it tried to convey.
does jas died in the end?
This book sounds just like my kind of book and at the same time not at all my kind of book! Thank you for the excellent review. I am not a fan of child narrators because the balance you talk about is so difficult to achieve and that ruins the books for me. And for this book I wonder how well another balance is kept - between depicting violence to make a point and shocking the reader...
Looking forward to your next review and hope you are safe.
Thank you Kay and I hope you are safe too, I think the other point you mentioned re balance is crossed and more if you look at it from a realistic novel perspective, however here, the book crosses to something Yanagihara did in her work “A little life”, to transforming the realistic novel into sort of a dark horror like fantasy.
Nope, this one is not for me at all. Maybe I'm not as Eurocentric as I thought? :-) Excellent review.
Thank you Paula and even though I’m very glad I read it I can understand it might not be for everybody 😊😱🤭
I questioned the reliability of the narrator as well and yes, I also do not know how to think about this book. This was one was heavy.
I think some time needs to pass for this book once read to settle within us,
How do you pronounce Marieke Lucas Rijneveld?
I so appreciate this project and your views, but i could tell this was not for me from the get go and THEN you said Lolita and i felt sure it was not for me, and THEN you said it made you uneasy...well then id be under the couch ....in the fetal position...haha..but its good to know what to skip..
Thank you so much Sandra for saying that. Have you read A Little Life by Yanagihara? It’s not exactly that but it’s also only 250 pages so that amount of violence cannot fit here but the feelings it evokes are similar.
@@WhatKamilReads Ive read a Little Life and really loved it. I have one criticism of the book but no one will ever hear as i have no channel.
Kamil I think you seriously underestimate the awareness and perception of a 12 year old child,
This book causes all kinds of discomfort! I'm sorry but that girl was a real pervert! I never liked it!