Diesel Air Heaters Part 16 - Boat Install
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- These are some basic Install Notes for DIY installing a diesel air heater in a boat. As always you should also do your own independent research.
One big advantage of these diesel air heaters, is they provide warm DRY air for heating a boat. They are far safer than many LPG or Propane heaters, and you do not have issues with the high water vapors produced as a by product of gas ignition and hence serious condensation and mildew issues in your boat.
Install Notes.
Position. - Mount where convenient, in a keel boat it is better to mount facing fore and aft close to the center line if possible as the heaters tolerate roll better than pitch. The lazarette in many boats makes an ideal install location. In a multihull or power boat you don't have any real heeling issues so location options are increased.
Wherever the heater is installed it must have venting to outside air.
The exhaust system must be totally sealed using a proper marine muffler and proper exhaust clamps. The common stainless steel worm clamps have no place on a marine exhaust system.
You must have a drain and a water trap at the lowest point in the exhaust system that that not only drains condensation but prevents any exhaust gases entering the boat.
It is not essential, but good practice, to lag the exhaust system. If the exhaust is not lagged there can be no loose or flammable items stored in the compartment, and the exhaust must be bracketed away from the hull and bulkheads.
Before initial heater start, you need to fill the water trap with water to prevent CO and exhaust gases entering the boat on first heater start.
You must have a sea water ingress prevention loop high up in the boat and a proper insulating exhaust gas through hull outlet.
It is essential to check the exhaust system in the boat for any exhaust leaks. Borrow or buy an instant carbon monoxide meter to check for leaks on initial start. A normal domestic CO meter does not measure very low levels of CO and it also has an alarm delay program to lessen false alarms. It is not suitable as a testing instrument.
However it is good safe practice to install a Carbon Monoxide alarm meter in your boat accommodation area to signal dangerous levels of CO..
With the hot air outlet vents, ONE vent must not be able to be closed so there is no possibility of a crew member or guest shutting off all the hot air outlet vents and causing the heater to dangerously overheat.
It is good practice, and also law in some countries to have some form of boat ventilation that can NOT be closed off, so as to prevent hypoxia.
I am reluctant to recommend or list links to products as there are many suppliers, and there are also some sellers who sell a product today and not next week making the links useless.
When you do online searches for marine heater accessories add the words Eberspacher, or Webasto, and the words marine to your search. These two companies are the original manufactures of these heaters, and stating their name helps in the search.
Safe Boating. JMcK - Auta a dopravní prostředky
You sir are a steely eyed missle man! I am getting ready to install up to 3 of these units on my boat and found your channel, you answered every single question I had. Thank you
Pleased you found the videos helpful. JMcK
John, thank you for all your efforts in leaving your wisdom here on this channel. With your videos, not only was I able to fix my heater, but I have also learned what a good heater it is and how to make it last a long time through the maintenance you’ve suggested. Not sure what your working career was, but you are an excellent teacher!
Wow metalman! Thanks for the positive feedback. JMcK
Watching the boat episode tomorrow, John! Cheers.
Thanks for sharing, watched all your diesel heater series, a lot of very useful information I haven't heard anywhere else.
Thanks for the positive feedback Simon. JMcK
I can't thank you enough for these videos, John. They are - literately - life savers.
Thank you Ovidiu. Pleased you found them useful. JMcK
The MAN is back! Hope you had a great holiday! Really good info for marine users, thank you :)
Thanks Mark
Many thanks for this episode, John! I've been pondering a number of possible heating solutions for the 37'6" Benford Sailing Dory I hope to start building soon. This series of videos has convinced me that one of these cheap systems can do the job!
Thanks for the feedback Jafo. JMcK
Thanks you a top man and the only one who has ever mentioned length of heating ducting. Absolute magic you have helped me a lot.
👍
Thanks for all your efforts on these videos John, I've found them immensely valuable! You're an excellent teacher!
Thank you Mr B. JMcK
Hi John wonder can you help me my 5kw diesel heater is showing E06 error I've sorted the fan it's ok now but still showing the fault and also saying check magnet polarity thanks
I considered putting one of these in my motor home but saw a couple videos slamming the quality. After watching these videos I’m convinced that if I install it correctly I won’t have a problem. I’m also confident that I can do it myself. Thanx
Just finished watching your series. Wonderful detailed content. I hope you choose to some reviews on other items. Your well explained tutorials makes me think you were once a teacher.
Thanks for the kind words Colin. I am considering doing a series on Solar panels, probably early next year. JMcK
Hi John, thausands of thanx for your great videos and wisdom! What a kick to listen and watch on your thoroghness!
Thanks for the positive feedback Martin. Pleased you found videos helpful. JMcK
Thank you very much John. I have since watching your videos purchased a 390mm heater and it will be a proper installation in the boat now after your videos. Thank you!
Also, what boat model do you have? Cabin seems very nice!
Hi Peter, pleased the videos were of some help.
The boat is a Bavaria 46.
This "bonus video" must have been becaue you read my mind 2 years before I needed it lol. Thank you very much to make the installation on a boat so clear ! It answert all my lingering questions and doubts of this and that, in particular the exhaust condesation asspect ! Thank you !
Hi Bernd, pleased you found the video helpful. JMcK
I've watched all your interesting and educational videos. Thanks heaps for all your time and effort mate! I've set one up in my humble home and now am waiting eagerly for winter. Greetings from the Hunter Valley.
Hi Stephen, thanks for the feedback. A toasty winter to you. JMcK
Thanks 😊 we'll done.....feel more confident in installing and maintaining my heater
Fantastic episode!! I am very happy, thanks a lot!
Pleased you liked it Martin. JMcK
Thanks for your video. I have one of these to install for my next boat project.
Your welcome Paul. JMcK
I don't have a boat but know people who do. I will show them your video collection and then they can know what you have done and get a complete understanding on how these heaters work. your tops john,,,,,,,thanks for this collection and when I get mine I will watch them again. thank you for all the work you put into these videos.
Glenn in Mississippi
Thanks for the kind feedback Glen. JMcK
I guess you were a teacher or an engineer, judging on how good you are on telling things, that just make sense. I learnt most of the heater theme from your vids, great content!
Thx a lot from Germany!
:-D
Hi Horst, thanks for the positive feedback. JMcK
I used to be suscribed to about 25 CZcams channels , i unsubscribed to all of them except 2 , I kept yours and 1 other , good stuff on this channel.
Thanks
Wow Larry, thanks for the positive feedback. JMcK
Thanks John. Beautiful serie
Your welcome Paolo, I hope you got some useful info out of them. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
I did! Thanks, again.
John, this was a totally excellent video thank you so much for taking the trouble to share all this invaluable information. i have had my Chinese heater lying in its box for months, while I have been thinking about the installation and finding an increasing number of questions. I am now just starting the install, and was thrilled to find that you answered every one of my questions.
I was especially concerned about the terrible muffler as supplied, and will buy a proper one from Butlertechnik. The supplied one is lethal! Many thanks again, fair winds and following seas to you.
Hi, thanks for the nice feedback comments. I hope all goes well for you, and you have a lovely warm boat in the colder weather. JMcK
Thanks, just about to fit one in my yacht, i had it way wrong, now sorting it 😁👍🏻thanks again
Hi JP, pleased you found the video helpful. JMcK
Hi John Mck. I've watched a good number of your informative videos on these compact space heaters. In one of your earlier videos you were mentioning the air bubbles seen in the pump lines and how these were formed by action of cavitation. I have a bit of info to add. If the cavitation bubbles are no longer visible it is a sure sign that the atomisation gauze is becoming severely blocked with carbonisation. This creates a pressure resistance in the pipes exiting the fuel pump and the now compressed bubbles dissapear as the air pockets are collapsed by excess pressure in the fuel line.
Hi Howard, thanks for the feedback. Yes, you need to be able to see those little bubbles pulse tracking towards the heater.
Hi John, what a find ! Like Richard below I've a 25 footer .
I'm in Melbourne and you have just answered so many questions and probably made future winters much more comfortable for me.
Thank you for the great work.
PS you are concise and easy to listen to, loved the nav info. Any sailing videos would be much appreciated
Hi Thos Oz, thanks for the positive feedback. You will have a lovely dry and warm boat with one of these heaters installed. Safe sailing. JMcK
Excellent video. I'm an Aussie who has been sailing the world for 20 years. The last few years I have been in the Med and this year I will finally install a Chinese heater. Great information you provided to make the job so much easier. Thanks and hopefully one day we will be anchored together somewhere. Rob. SV Topaz.
Hi Rob, thanks for the feedback.
Safe sailing. JMcK
Great video. Thanks 😊
Pleased you found it helpful. JMcK
Thanks again John
Thank you great series you probably just saved my life! Or more important some frustration
Glad to be of some help Scott. JMcK
Thank you so much this series answered all my questions plus some things I didn't even consider. I would love to hear more about your navigation, I run openCPN on a raspberry pi type setup with integrated AIS monitoring
Hi Clion. We run open CPN on the ship laptop at the chart table, with tracking always on. At the helm we have a large iPad in a water resistant case running Navionics or iSailor. I prefer iSailor, my partner prefers Navionics. We had to buy a 3 amp USB outlet as we found the normal 2.1 amp would not keep the iPad charged . JMcK
Thanks for the great videos on the heaters. Should have links to Amazon. Would love to see you get some $ for all your efforts!
Great info!
Excellent Series on the Chinese diesel air heaters. I was looking to purchase a webasto, but the price scares me, but after watching your series i will definitely purchase the knock off. Looking to put it into my cargo trailer for hunting the cold winters. Just have to make up my mind on an all in one or the heater and tank separate!! Great job on the videos!!! Hello from the great white north, Fort McMurray, Alberta Canada
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Hi Byron, thanks for the feedback. If I was to install a permanent heater in a trailer I would use the standard heater. If I was going to move the heater around regularly I would go all in one heater. JMcK
excellant explanation! thank you.
Thank you Denevs. JMcK
great stuff mate good info
Your welcome Peter. JMcK
Hi Richard, yes you could do that if you wish. It is just personal preference. Some people like to recycle the air, others like to only heat outside fresh air and accept they will burn a little more diesel.
These heaters are excellent at removing moisture from the air, so that is not an issue whether you go fresh or recycle. JMcK
HOLY that boat is big
I've spent parts of two days watching this series of videos and I've learned a lot. Thank you.
I'm always looking for alternative sources of power, light, heat and means to cook. In addition to a 1600 watt inverter generator and a (very thirsty) 5000 watt generator (House damaged during storm? May need power tools for repair.), I designed and built a solar-charged "Wait until daylight" system that can provide 8 to 20 hours of limited power for the frequent but usually short (under 3 hours) commercial power outages we have (longest outage here in 15 years was 16 hours, but we lived near this area before and had several consecutive days without power). Why "Wait until daylight"? The system provides enough power that I don't need to rush out in a thunderstorm or at below freezing temperatures in 7 inches of snow to get a gasoline generator out of the shed to have lights or keep the fridge cool.
I have the same outlook on backups for heating, having had a nearly new, very efficient, very high tech gas furnace controller die in January and the "3 day" turnaround was 14 days. We managed with a kerosene heater at one end of the space we wanted to heat and gas logs in the fireplace at the other end (the remote AND the gas valve for the gas logs are battery powered so they work when power is off). However, neither of those provides heat to the basement which is why I'm interested in a diesel heater. I need limited heat for a few hundred square feet and the temperature rise above the outside temperature typically only needs to be perhaps 10 degrees F (5 degrees C) to keep the pipes in the basement from freezing. A 5KW heater on its low setting (maybe 5000BTU?) might be adequate and, based on your tests, a gallon of diesel would last perhaps 26 hours. On that basis, a 5 gallon can of diesel could probably probably provide enough heat to protect the pipes for at least a week - not every day will be below freezing and the underground portion of the basement will be close to the 45-50F (7-10C) ground temperature. The solar system has a 420AH 12 volt battery bank so I would have power to run the heater and the solar power to recharge the batteries.
I still have research to do but you've given me an excellent start on it.
Hi Notyoung, thanks for the detailed feedback. I hope a diesel heater install meets your needs. JMcK
Another excellent tutorial. I am now going to cost up purchasing a genuine Chinese 5 Kw model and then the additional exhaust skin fitting, properly sealed marine exhaust silencer, master switch, exhaust lagging, exhaust brackets/hose clamp thingies, stainless steel cable ties, rubber mounts and modified mounting plate. Fitting will be the biggest problem as my boat, Whittley SL26, doesn't have a lot of room around where I intend to do the installation which is in the void close to the throttle box controller
It will need to be side mounted, glow plug side upwards, and the exhaust will, somehow, go upwards and out through the hull above the gunwales on the side of the cabin ----- could be easier said than done. It's going to require universal joints to be fitted to my elbows and wrists!
👍
John, thanks for your very thorough videos. Would you consider doing a video on the Chinese air/water combination heater, in the future.
Thanks Steve
Hi Steve, yes, I would like to do a video on one of those if I can buy one at a reasonable price. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 well over time, the prices should come down, there are not many suppliers. Thanks for the consideration.
wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/5KW-7KW-12V-24V-water-heater_60871506423.html
Steve
John, excellent videos, really top notch on content. @@stevecarlisle3323 Those heater warm water very slowly, and put out a ton of hot air in the process. They are great IF you want to warm up the cabin and, as a bonus, get hot water after a while, but if you mainly want hot water, but does not necessarily want a cabin heater on at that moment, it will not work well (you can dumb warm air outside, but it will still take long to warm water for shower, for instance). With that in mind, I'm looking at getting one of the "regular" 5kw air heaters and installing a Y connection on the hot air output to run it through a car HVAC cabin heater (but backwards, warm air will heat water). A water circulation pump would force the flow between the boiler and the car "radiator" (I'm planing to heat the water it self, not no mess with engine cooling system part of the boiler). If this works, I will be able to only heat water, only cabin, or both... John, are you willing to make a test rig for this??? maybe it suits your needs on the boat as well. Cheers!
@@paial we are well aware of these water (hydronic) heaters, what they are designed for. NO, they are not " On Demand" water heater, but are used with radiators with fans.
Thanks
@@stevecarlisle3323 , you might have seen this (czcams.com/video/vtvy2MwbArQ/video.html), if not, the guy ran a lot of tests on type of heater you linked from alibaba. I was very interested in them, but when I saw the tests, from the total heat created, 20% goes to water an the rest to air (or something in that ball park). As far as I'm aware, chinese do not make a generic hydronic (wish they did), and the "brand" ones are way out of my price range. So my proposition was to transform a regular air heater into a dual porpoise one (heat only air, heat "only" water, heat both), use a air to water radiator in front of the hot air output, and store the hot water on the boiler (not "on demand"). I my sailing, now an then, I need more hot water, but no need for cabin heating, I feel really bad to turn on the diesel engine just to heat water, and I foresee needing cabin heating in the near future. So I was on the hopes that John could give this idea a try as he seems to really enjoy testing this things. Cheers.
Thanks for video.I am also selling this product. It is a shame that our Chinese supplier does not know as much about this product as you do.Because I want to give more help to buyers, I found you to study.It helped me a lot.At the same time, it also made me realize that this product still needs to be improved.
We are willing to provide an 8kw one. If possible, we hope to get your help to make a user manual to help users.And according to your suggestion to add the necessary accessories.
Hi, I would be interested in offering help if I can. My email, johnmck47@outlook.com. JMcK
Great to see everyone can learn from these excellent videos. Can you please list your web site where you are selling your heaters?
Fantastic series, thanks much John. Just curious as to how well these knockoffs fare in the marine environment vs the Espars....
Hi Mr D,
For the price, these are excellent little heaters.
In a Marine environment I suggest you spray the ECB control board with a sealer from an electronics store as it is not encapsulated in resin like the genuine heater.
But that is not all bad, as you have an ECB that can be worked on.
Cheers. JMcK
Just when I thought the series was finished, here comes another informative episode - many thanks, John. Greetings from Canada.
Do you have thoughts on potential fan bearing failure, or lubrication requirements? That's one part that always concerned me.
MichaelAChang
Hi Michael,
We have put over 1,200 hours ourselves on our genuine boat heater without a fan failure, and we bought it second hand. I do not have anywhere near those hours on a Chinese copy heater to act as a comparison, but suspect you will get similar trouble free hours.
I have heard of a fan bearing replacement job on a genuine heater, but with the very cheap cost of the Chinese heaters it would be far cheaper to replace than repair. JMcK
John, I rely on your expertise and knowledge base when purchasing and installing operating, maintaing my 5 kW heater in my motorhome. again I thank you. Since I consider you The best source on the Internet I was thinking that maybe you could do a complete overview from the scam Of an 8 kW heater two the fuel hoses, exhaust, controllers, installing etc. and use this to refer back by number of your specific video for more information. Also I saw on the net that they have made one that has incorporated a water jacket so you can use it to heat water ! I watched it on CZcams and I’m curious as to the practicality? as I would like an on demand boondocks heater. Thanks again John you’re the best
Hi Keith, first thank you for your positive feedback.
I had basically finished the series but I have undertaken to do two more videos, one on the metal case heater, and a motor home install.
Re the air water heater, I would also do a test of one of those if I get my hands on one, but at this stage I do not see myself going back over past topics. But I never say never.
Cheers, JMcK
John McK 47 Well john I was just hoping that you could do an overview of what’s involved from selecting a heater to installing the heater to running and shutting off the heater giving a complete overview and one video of all your fantastical lessons. By the way I have created a portable suitcase and installed a 5kw in it, along with a battery and fuel-cell I’ll send you a couple of pictures later. 🙌
John McK 47 The reason for an overview is that people are generally misinformed and too lazy to watch all of your explanations An overview with references to each one of your videos will allow them to determine if they would benefit by purchasing and installing the Chinese diesel heater.
Hi Keith,
I will consider your request, but it is not something I would do in the near future. I have a couple more videos to do on these heaters and then I was going to move on to something else. Cheers. JMcK
Thanks for the great series I have watched them all and learnt a lot. You seem to have more than 270 degrees of bends in your boat exhaust but you say it is working fine?
Thanks for the feedback Stonkeng,
The boat has a 90 deg at the start and a splash loop at the top, and then exit. The advantage here is hot gases rising creating their own sucking movement. It would not work so well if the exhaust was the same but in a downwards movement. JMcK
Thanks John for your fantastic videos. So clear and full of useful information. Im having difficulty getting the rigid fuel hose into the joiner (it’s too tight), but I’m concerned about going to a slightly larger/less snug fit. Does one of your videos cover this aspect?
Hi CR,
It is ok to run normal fuel hose from tank to filter to pump, and hence no joiners for the thin nylon. But from pump to heater you should only run the thin hard wall nylon hose (and joiners)
The nylon to the rubber joiner needs to be a tight fit, if it slides in easily without pushing hard it will be too lose and leak.
I soak the rubber joiner in very hot/boiling water for a minute or so and use a little detergent on very tight connectors.
Regards. JMcK
Thanks for the hot water & detergent tip John!
Thank you for taking the time to produce this series of excellent videos. I have watched them all. I would like to fit this to my campervan. Would these be ok to fit under the van? I would as you say keep the glow plug on the top side.
Hi Johnlyn, you can fit them in many places provided you do it properly. You would need to provide the heater with protection from road grime, dirt, and water etc. JMcK
John McK 47 Thank you. Really enjoyed your videos.
JohnlynHD
Your most welcome. JMcK
I have the 5kW Chinese heater. I worked always but I seldom used it. (used electric heater) Now I run it daily 14 hours a day for about a month or two and now everything goes wrong. White smoke starting, black smoke running. Needs a few trials to start ,then it runs colder and colder until it stops. It did not send CO to the cabin (boat) but, even after kitting everything with gungum and alu taper it still smells. I will take it apart but I live on my boat so for safety I think I am going to replace it by a non-Chinese. I'm deep into electronics and if they cut the same corners in materials and using unsuited materials way over specs, I do not want to risk my live or health.
But thank you for all the info, I now know enough to clean/check/test it or replace it by an original.
It looks like you have significant carbon deposit build up in the burner and atomisation screens.
Suggest you need a burner clean and some serious carbon removal. Before disassemble you could try a kerro/diesel mix, 90/10 running at a high Hz rate for 30 mins to see if you can burn off some carbon that way rather than stripping down the heater..
With similar operation, you will have similar carbon issues with non Chinese heaters, and remember you can buy 8 to 10 new Chinese heaters for the cost of a single genuine European heaters. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 I only use automotive diesel, we have no other option here. If I can not use it longer then a month or 2 to daily heat my boat (it is winter here, temps between -zero and +10C) then a diesel heater is no option and I have go back to electric. So buying a real one then is indeed useless. But that makes the whole principle useless other then running it always at full power and then switch it of if the boat gets to hot.
In the morning I start it, the boat is then around 10 degrees C. It then burns full throttle for 30 minutes or so. After that it switches to idle and goes up in RPM so every now and then to keep the temp at 20 degrees. That worked wonderful upto a few days ago. It suddenly started to soot, coolded down, switched off and began to smoke white while starting.
It always smelled it a bit inside the cabin but not in the room it is mounted. So it must come from inside. I think a gasket was already not so great from new. (Chinese do not really check there stuff before selling) The exhaust gasses were before always invisible and the inside of the exhaust was clean like new, now it is black and the floor outside under it is also soothed.
The heater is mounted outside the in a closed steel "box" under a bench on the rear deck against the steering-hut (11m steel motor cruiser I live on) . The inside part exhaust keeps the box warm to preheat the outside air. Form there a hose goes in the cabin. The exhaust goes to a mounting plate that leads it to the outside.
Total exhaust length will be 60 cm or so. Inlet 20 cm to the standard silencer.
@@johnmck1147 I opend it. Hell of a job because they use paper gaskets that would not come loose in one piece, spend an hour scraping the very rough surface.
The combustion chamber is completely filled with sooth. In such a way that there is no combustion possible because there is no space left. The glowplug was clean but I have not yet opened the ignition chamber. Edit: that was clean. Turns out it is a 2kW unit instead of the 5kW on the label.
My ECU is not mounted in a box, they used through hole 105 degreesC electrolytics , I will replace them with a good brand 125C. But this one has a second temperature sensor mounted on the PCB so by accident shutting a down would be less dangerous.
125 caps will last longer.
I replaced the long very thin original heater copper plated alu wires for real copper over twice the diameter (exept the last 5cm because there is not enough room in that hole. That will improve the 3V voltdrop they caused.
Now I have to find metal gaskets. But there must be something really wrong to get this much carbon-sooth. The ECU ?
Hi pa4,
I assume you are not using “silly” fuel like used engine oil, or adding 2 stroke oil or similar. Those oily products burn badly and make lots of carbon.
Suggest you have a look at your install. To have so much carbon, leads me to suspect you have lots of restrictions in your set up. These heaters only have a tiny fan to move combustion air and exhaust air. Restrictions creat a bad fuel air mix and poor burn with lots of carbon residue.
I buy my gaskets off eBay. I search for gaskets for Eberspacher D4 diesel parking heater. The Chinese heaters a a copy.
Suggest once a week or so you run the heater around 5 Hz for 15 to 20 minutes to burn off any carbon residue.
Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you for the support, very kind. Best wishes for 2024I use automotive diesel, my exhaust is about 50cm, the burn-air-inlet is 30cm and only the default muffler, the cabin air inlet is open. The cabin outlet piping is first 40 cm of the diameter of the heater outlet (66mm orso) and the rest 3m around 90mm. And that has 2 outlets. A friend calculated that with 3.0Hz and the 0.022 pump it produces in theory around 2kW. Better would be the 0.016 pump. 5.0Hz, 0.022pump would make 5kW,
So I did the factories job and tried tuning it and now it runs better. It has the size of the 2kW but it was programmed to be a 5kW and using the 0.022ml pump. The settings where 1.3 Hz idle upto 5Hz max. 1450rpm upto 5000rpm. I now set it at 1.1Hz (otherwise it cools down to much) and max 3Hz. The fan 1650-1450rpm. Now it still starts bad but it runs better. It is probably just a bad made clone, the sooth problem was probably due to settings and very bad production. The smell was due to leaking through the bad not flat surface of the aluminium. Poor fabrication quality and lack of end control. Oh, measured the exhaust at 5Hz, the meter jumpd to overload (+1000ppm) even at 3 Hz it is way to rich.
Next week the Autoterm comes in and then the Chinacrap goes to the junk yard.
I
Thanks John some great tips. I would like to send you a picture of my standard silencer that I have modified for the boat. Can't see ho w to do that here....
Hi Chris, my email is. johnmck47@outlook.com
Very helpful and exactly what I was looking for. I have watched all your other videos with a boat installation in mind.
Just one outstanding query after having watched all of these.
The water trap.
It's the first time I've heard of this. I cannot see clearly on the video what it consists of.
And I cannot find any other information online about these water traps or where to buy one.
The safety information here was particularly helpful. It made me realise just how dangerous these heaters can be if not installed correctly.
Many thanks again for the time and trouble you have taken in making these videos.
Hi Richard,
The water trap is also condensation drain, providing two functions, one draining out any water from the exhaust, and two, providing a gas seal to stop exhaust gases entering the boat.
It is a very simple system of three or four tight coils of copper tube, 5 or 6 mm mounted vertically.
A local fabrication shop could make the exhaust elbow and water trap for you.
There are also a number of sellers on line. In your search use the words Eberspacher, exhaust elbow, and condensate drain.
Here is a link to one supplier to get you started.
www.butlertechnik.com/search/condensate-drain
Cheers, JMcK
Thank you John.
I see what you mean.
It is very simple.
The elbow and trap is quite expensive too. The same price as the heater.
I will do some searching. I much appreciate your reply.
John I've just had a thought.
I am looking at fitting the heater to a 25 foot boat.
The obvious place seems high up in the space that forms the cockpit coaming.
If one were to do this the exhaust tube would come down from the heater and then up and then down again to exit through the transom.
In which case there does not seem any need for an exhaust elbow or a condensate drain.
Any condensate would sit in the bottom loop. And as it's such a small amount would be evaporated off each time the heater is used.
Does that the arrangement sound viable to you?
Richard Gooderick ,
Hi Richard, I personally would always put in a condensate drain at the lowest point in the exhaust. Logic tells me that you would have start issues with condensation pooled in the heater exhaust.
There has to be air sucked into the combustion chamber to mix with the diesel for combustion to start. The fan is small with tiny vanes and I wonder if it would have enough pressure to force the outlet non combusted air past the water. If the water in the exhaust stopped this "outlet air", no fresh air could enter the combustion chamber.
But this is my current opinion and I have not tested this, so it is something I will consider doing in the future to see what would really happen.
But I would still install a drain. Just like anything else connected to the outside atmosphere eg fuel tank, you have "panting". The gas in the exhaust expands and contracts and would suck in moist air every night, so you have the potential to accumulate a lot of condensate water in the exhaust pipe, particularly in a cold moist climate. JMcK
Richard Gooderick ,
I agree, the price is the same cost as a heater. Another item I hope the Chinese manufacturer. A local fabrication shop should be able to make one for you much cheaper. JMcK
Hi John. Great videos. Really informative. Just wondering how big the hole is through the hull around the fitting. Did you need any heat shield to stop burning the hull material and what temp do you think is around the fitting. Thanks very much.
Hi Renay, the fitting has a built in heat shield. There is an air gap built into the fitting. The hole in the hull is around 40 mm, depending on the marine exhaust fitting you buy. JMcK
Hi John, this is such a helpful video! I have a Bavaria Cruiser 32 and am going to install a Chinese heater in the same spot you have. I am stuck on how to mount it properly and wonder if you can send a diagram of how you did it. The cruiser is wide at the back with the indent for the integrated swim platform. I am not sure how to attach it to the hull any tips are super appreciated.
Hi Stephanie, on my Bavaria in the Med the heater is mounted in the lazaret. It is mounted on a a z shaped metal bracket bolted to the roof. To mount the bracket to the roof two timber strips each with 2 bolts inserted with the heads countersunk and glued with epoxy. These strips with the bolts coming out the bottom were glued and glassed to the ceiling. The metal frame was bolted to this.
On the bottom of the metal Z frame the heater was bolted down through some rubber feet for vibration isolation. In hindsight, probably not necessary and the silicone gasket supplied would be sufficient.
You could also glass in a frame to the bottom of your boat if you choose.
Remember, the heater must face fore and aft on a keel boat, but could be mounted on its side if it makes for easier exhaust instillation, provided it is the side with the glow plug on the top. You still must have a moisture trap. Cheers. JMcK
Thanks John, have you any ideas as to how to use the waste heat in the exhaust to boost heat an electric water tank?
zwarst
Hi Zwarst,
Yes I have wondered about wrapping small bore copper pipe around the exhaust hose to act as a heat absorber, I am not sure if you could use a length of the supplied exhaust or you would need to make something new from scratch.
My circumstances have not pushed me to experiment further on this, but if I lived in a winter cabin, I am sure I would experiment to see if I could make plenty of hot water.
Cheers. JMcK
John McK 47 thanks Jon, I’m in a shack next to the Macdonald river NSW so I’ll be looking into soon.
Great video. One question....what if I mount the heater higher than the exhaust outlet - say 200mm - do I still need the exhaust drain and the loop?
Hi Mrs Tatham, you need condensation drain at the lowest point if the exhaust.
If the exhaust slopes downwards and any condensed water can drain out of the exhaust you do not need a seperate condensate drain. JMcK
Once again, thanks for your videos! They are great and very informative. Another idiot question. On a boat, it is often not possible to run the heater while it is in storage. What would be the best procedure to prepare the heater for prolonged inactivity? Normally this would be 6 to 8 months, but with the virus, it may be quite a bit longer. Fuel stabilizer (antibacterial, etc) and or drain the tank and/or fuel lines? Thanks again.
Hi John,
At the end of the sailing season, I run the heater in our boat in the Med around full power (aprox 5Hz) for about 15 minutes and shut it down. Running the heater on high power for a few minutes helps to burn off any accumulated deposits. I then turn off the fuel tap to the heater (it is fed from the boat diesel tank) and that is it.
The boat mostly comes out of the water for hard stand winter storage for 7 months or so each year and in 12 odd years of doing this I have never had an issue with the heater, nor have I had to clean out any accumulated carbon deposits from inside the heater.
A couple of seasons we have not had a need to run the heater so the heater downtime exceeded 18 months without any issues.
The critical issues with these heaters is -
Proper install with minimum restrictions and back pressure.
Clean fuel, and a decent external fuel filter.
If you run the heater mostly on low power, occasionally give them full power for 15 minutes or so to burn off accumulated carbon.
If you run your heater from a small seperate fuel tank and it is easy to do so, it can be an advantage to run a high kerro/diesel mix (90/10) for 15 minutes at season end. (To burn off any accumulated carbon)
Cheers. JMcK
Really informative video.. one question on the water trap though.
It strikes me that the exhaust is going to be pretty hot, and the water trap mounted directly to it.
If the heater is in regular use, won't you have a problem with the water in the trap evaporating, or practically does that just not happen?
Do you have any way to check the water in the water trap to make sure you aren't just exhausting into the boat?
Hi Jonty,
I have never had issues with the water trap in 10 years of use.
However you must use one with multiple turns which means multiple water traps. Water in the first trap probably does evaporate but the others would provide some insulation. Also the exhaust gas racing past the trap tends to creat a sucking effect from the trap rather than blowing into the trap.
However, with any appliance like this it is good practice to install a CO meter in your boat or van.
I do check the trap with a test CO meter on first season start up as I suspect some evaporation after 6 months inactivity. But I have never actually removed the water trap and checked it for water. Something I will do next season for my knowledge.
Regards. JMcK
I am so sorry that I keep asking your questions, but you are the only expert I dare to rely upon.
In one end is the air intake and on the other end is the air outlet. Would it be of any danger or benefit if I mount the intake via a hose to the inside, so the inside air is reheated and blown out in the cabin again?
Hi FM,
It is ok and quite common to recycle the heated air from the heater. In the motorhome video in this series the air is recycled. As in a motorcar you can choose to heat fresh air from outside or heat recycled air.
However, as I state in the motorhome video, you must have some fresh air ventilation somewhere in the heated space/compartment that can not be shut off.
You also should have a CO meter installed, to warn of any carbon monoxide buildup.
Your heater works more efficiently by reheating accommodation air rather than cold outside air.
This is a personal issue. Some people only want fresh outside air coming into their accommodation, others prefer to heat recycled air.
Cheers. JMcK
Great video thank you for posting. Not easy filming in the bilge! Wouldn't the condensation in the exhaust simply burn off? Why risk potential CO leak in the laz with an opening in the exhaust line (albeit when installed correctly the coiled loop contains a water trap)?
Hi FS,
Yes, if there is only a tiny bit. However more than about a tablespoon of water creates a restriction in the exhaust.
As shown in the strip down video, the combustion fan is very small and exerts very little force. With a small restriction in the exhaust the burner will not light, so it can't burn off the condensation water. JMcK
Hey John. Hello from USA. Great work on these videos.
I had a question. Is there any reason that you could not hook a large air intake hose to the interior of the boat like an air return duct in a home or recirculate setting in an automobile. I would think it might improve air flow in the boat if placed correctly as well as avoid drawing damp exterior air into the boat.
Any thoughts?
Does the exhaust fitting with the 90 degree bend come pre-configured with the fitting for the water trap? Or does one need to drill and tap the 90 degree bend and install a fitting for the water trap? Thanks.
Both. You can buy a genuine fitting from Eberspacher, (expensive) or make your own. At this time I know of any Chinese made part. JMcK
Many thanks John for your time and effort to produce these excellent videos on diesel heaters. Did the man from China contact you? I'd like to support his efforts in improving the heaters. Does he have a web address?
Everything in China is controlled by the CCP. No one has authority to change the design but the CCP.
Absolutely brilliant videos John, thank you.
In one of your earlier videos you mention you shouldn't obstruct the exhaust flow 'too much'.
In this clip your exhaust begins with a 90 degree elbow, the exhaust is longer than normal and it ends with an almost 180 degree loop before going thru the hull. Also, i see that the thru hole exhaust fitting is a lot narrower than the factory exhaust pipe.
My question is, do the settings need to adjusted in some way to accommodate the obstructed airflow mate?
Hi Fitzy, the boat install was a professional install by an Eberspacher agent and it has worked very well for 20 years. I think it would be better if the outlet from the heater was a "rounded" 90deg curve but what I have is standard Eberspacher. The exhaust hull outlet is actually slightly bigger than the exhaust hose. No adjustments are needed to heater operation. The positives of the upward flow of hot exhaust gases in the exhaust easily negate the gas restriction of the water ingress prevention bend. I hope this helps. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 certainly does help John, cheers, keep the videos coming and thanks for putting the time into making them mate
I have a webasto 2K gasoline heater and the exhaust is making a intermittent burping sound. New install. It will cycle through a few times then shuts itself down. I have 12.8 v coming to the heater, no bends in the exhaust pipe with a short pipe, no inlet manifold on the intake, the pump is mounted at 30 degrees. Pickup from the axu pipe in the gas tank of a promaster van. Any troubleshooting ideas. Love your videos, I learned a lot.
Hi Rick, a bit hard to offer suggestions without seeing the heater, but from your description I suspect you have a diesel heater, not a gasoline version heater. If you try to run a diesel heater on petrol or gasoline you get symptoms just as you describe.
There is a lot of confusion with Chinese translation. In China, and some other countries diesel is called gasoil, and this is sometimes translated to gasoline.
Is your heater really a Webasto brand heater? If so go back to Webasto. If you bought a Chinese copy air heater, it will almost certainly be designed to run on diesel. A look at the burner chamber will tell if it is a diesel or petrol heater.
Cheers. JMcK
John, sorry to comment twice but one more question. If I run the exhaust straight down through the floor of my bus I would not need a right angle attachment with a water trap, correct? I'm assuming you just need the water trap if you are putting an upward bend into the exhaust. Is this assumption correct? Thanks again for all your super helpful videos!
Hi Mitchell, you only need a water trap in a boat or similar. There two reasons for a water trap.
1. The most important, is to prevent exhaust gases getting into the boat or accommodation area.
2. To allow condensation water to drain away.
You are correct, if you run the exhaust through the floor of a bus you have no issues. However if the exhaust has a u type loop, you just drill a small hole (5 or 6 mm) at the bottom of the loop to allow water to drain away and not flood back into the burner. Where the exhaust gas will not be able to get into the accommodation area you just need a hole, not a water trap. JMcK
thanks for such a well informed and intelligent series john. there was lot there i wouldn't have thought of. i was impressed by the section on fuel lines. i am a senior citizen or old fart in english and have built or made stuff all my life. so it's nice to find something new i had never thought of. Thank you. thinking of replacing my japanese inverter heater with one of these in the house as lamp oil is 4 times the price of c2 kero over here in the UK. just need to drill a hole though a 9 inch wall for the exhaust.do you know if there any restrictions on the hot air outlet length.?
Hi Robert, thanks for the feedback. The shorter the better for the outlet, but they often run 10 meters or so on boats without any real issues, but try to keep out sharp bends. JMcK
John, love your series. Question: I have a 5K. If I find it is too big for my van, is it possible to just change the dosing pump to basically convert it to a 2K heater? Or is the burner different between them? Just wouldn't want to later have to remove the whole unit and mess with different hole configuration between units. Thanks
Hi Andy,
Real 2 kw and 5 kw heaters are different sizes, but some suppliers fraudulently market a standard 5 kw heater as a 2 and 8 kw heater.
Both 2 kw and 5 kw heaters have exactly the same mounting bracket, and the same exhaust hose and the same combustion inlet hose. Only the heater physical size is different and the hot air outlet hose is different.
It is easy to swap out a 5 kw heater for a 2 kw heater.
Regards. JMcK
Did you end up buying a 2kw heater? I'm looking to heat a honda civic. Want a stealth and quiet heater. So trying to decide if u should go 2 kw or 5 kw. The 5 kw is quittee but may be to much for a small civic. Thw car has jo I sultation and would be use in -10 celcius weather.
What is the max length you can go on the intake and exhaust pipes?
Hi, this depends a lot on the install situation. Shorter is better. Greater than about 1.5 meters you perhaps should consider going bigger diameter. You can go longer with a rising exhaust, even over 4m (don't forget condensate drain at lowest point) than with a descending exhaust. You can go longer with a straight exhaust than one with bends. JMcK
Hi John Thanks for all the detailed videos. In particular the boat video, can you confirm this is a 5kW style, and if so, what diameter and number of outlets do you have? 75mm? You mentioned an 8m long run of duct, and I wondered if this was too long for 75mm duct? Cheers, Nigel
Hi Nigel
Yes, the heater is a 5kw unit and the total ducting length is around 8meters long.
It is 100 mm ducting, not 75 mm, and has 3 by 90deg bends, which is not ideal but the system still works well. Cheers, JMcK
I'm hesitant to get one of these because of the noise. Right now I have a Buddy catalytic heater which is totally quiet. My main complaint is that it is not thermostatically controlled and I have to manually start and stop it at night. I would love to see a video with the best install to reduce noise to a minimum.
Hi Rob, please watch the video again. Installed correctly these heaters are pretty quite. Yes, they do make some noise, but I can hardly hear our heater in the boat.
You get two big advantages over your catalytic heater, 1 no gas burning in your boat. 2. A dry heat, none of that condensation you get from a gas heater. JMcK
Hi John, I enjoyed watching your series of videos on these heaters.. On a more technical note is there anyway of 'tuning' these heaters..ie setting correct combustion.. I would assume its an adjustment of fuel flow via the pump and fan speed? and test co2 output through all heat settings.. Would be great if you would be kind enough and look into producing a video to guide us owners of these heaters.. Finally, here in the UK a lot of Ebay heaters now have the simple Dial thermostat device thats apparently digital and it comes with a 2 button remote... A lot of guys state theres no 'pairing' instructions for these... Again your advise would be brilliant... Rick
Hi Rick, the heaters come pre tuned for normal atmosphere pressure, there is no need to fix what is not broken. With the LED digital controller you can go into the password protected settings menu and change the pulse rates and fan settings, but those who do that often open up a can of worms and get the heater all out of balance.
I do not know how, or if it is even possible to pair a remote to the simple dial type controller. Sorry.
JMcK
Greetings from Sweden. Thank you for all of the videos. I now have a brand new 5kW in front of me which will be installed in our 11,9 m boat. There is actually a metal pipe already in place to connect the exhaust. As this is a steel boat it would be better if I could avoid any connection between B- and any metal parts, but I an not sure how to manage that for the exhaust. I will need to order some more parts anyway as I need 90 degree fittings with drain, and also a few vents (will probably go for closable for all but one vent).
Do you have any suggestion how to connect the exhause without grounding it, and if possible solv the issue with draining at the same time?
Regarding the ducting, is there any need for extra fans to move the air long distances or would it be enough to just go with 100mm hose?
Once again thank you for all the time you have put in to this!
Regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan,
First you need the condensation drain, as you do not want that water running back into the heater, and you can get lots of condensation in a wet winter.
Isolating the exhaust electrically will be a little more difficult.
You could use a short length of high temperature silicone tube as a joiner, but I have not personally seen a suitable bore size. But you could make a metal adaptor I guess.
You could perhaps make up metal joining flangers, with oversized holes to stop bolts transferring B-, with a high temp silicone gasket.
Are you worried about electrolysis?
Would that be an issue if you installed a double pole power switch or a switch in the negative line and remembered to turn it off after use?
I have not had to deal with this issue in the past, but now you have me thinking.
Ref the ducting. I don't think you will have an issue if there are not too many sharp bends. Seven meters of ducting is not uncommon on a boat. If you have an issue, just install a 12V computer fan at the furthest vent outlet.
Merry Christmas. JMcK
Hi John great video series watched them all. You briefly mentioned hard body heaters, is there any advantage to alloy case? And the new style control any advantage? Cheers
Hi Martin,
There are really no significant advantages or disadvantages between alloy or plastic body heaters, it is really just personal preference.
Not quite sure what controllers you are referring to. But here again it is really personal preference. In the boat I prefer a simple dial manual controller, but in my daughters home bedroom I used a digital controller with a remote so she can turn the heater on or off from the bed during the night.
Cheers, JMcK
John McK 47 Thanks for the reply, think I will pay the little bit more for the alloy case. Less likely to melt. If something goes wrong lol. Thanks again for the videos you have given me confidence to give one a go instead of paying 10X more. Cheers
Hi John. Thank you for your time making these heater videos!
Is it possible to have the fuel tank around 1m higher then the heater unit?
This would get about 0,1 bar of pressure in the fuel line before the pump.
Or these pumps has to suck the fuel without any pressure in the hose?
Hi Peter, sorry this is late, I initially missed your post.
You can go up to about 2 meters of head pressure without too many issues, however you really need an inline shut off valve in the fuel line between the tank and the fuel pump.
The issues you have is fuel leakage through the pump. The pump piston is forced upwards by an electromagnetic field but returned down by small springs. Head pressure can cause diesel to overcome the little springs and leak past the pump. If the heater is also lower than the fuel tank you will get diesel leakage into the burner and flooding.
So install a shut off valve. Turn the fuel tap on when you wish to use the heater and off after use and you prevent issues arising from potential fuel leakage.
Regards. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you!
Awesome videos . Quick question about a boat install...what is the failure mode or issue with pitch vs roll in these units.. The Eberspaecher manual seems to imply that they are less tolerant to a roll axis than a pitch based on the ticks and crosses but I'm probably reading it wrong. I assume they want to avoid a permanent pitch down of the outlet end to avoid overheating. As my boat is a Trimaran i would never (normally) experience a heel of more than say 15 degrees so if its the nose down attitude and extended use in this orientation that causes issues I might be immune. Small boat, limited install options for a Chinese version.
Hi Mark, these heaters are pretty tolerant to pitch and roll on a boat. You can actually mount these heaters at 90 deg roll provided the glow plug is at the top. They will also operate for a short time at 90 deg pitch.
What they don't like is permanent install on out of speck angles as the diesel pools on shutdown, and you have start issues, but once started you can twist and roll them and they still work. Mount the heater level on your boat at rest with proper install practices and you won't have operational issues. JMcK
_I have a question what the difference between some pumps. I have come across 12/ 24 by 16, 22, 28, 32, and even 65ml pumps. The most common is the 12/24 by 22ml; can I assume the metering dose it delivers?_
Correct.
The most common pumps are 20 and 22 delivering .02 ml and .022 ml of fuel per stroke.
JMcK
Fine sailing vessel you have there, and that's some sailing going by that chart, is that one season?
Hi Tailss, that would be two seasons recorded there. It is a nice area of sailing with guests out of the Meltimi strong wind belt. JMcK
Hello, does the mounting plate get hot?
No Joe, it gets warm from radiated heat but nowhere near what you would call hot. JMcK
John, thank very much your videos are amazing and very useful. Any chance you could make a video of taking one of these heaters out of the box to connecting everything properly together to test it before the install?
Thanks
another excellent video. thanks for your effort and exactly what I wanted to see. I'm off to make some modifications. I put a 2kw unit in my 45' with a 8m insulated duct run and finding its not getting hot enough. Can you tell me what size heater you have installed. Thanks again.
Hi Mr Dino,
Yes, 2KW is a little small in a 45 ft boat.
Our 46 ft boat has a 5KW heater and is excellent down to low single digit deg C, but the heater efficiency depends on your insulation and number of windows. A 45 ft pilot house boat or catamaran with lots of windows would probably need two heaters installed.
These Chinese heaters are now so cheap you could easily swap your old heater or install two heaters. Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank John and welcome back. I think you're right. Looks like the Jeanneau factory install two 5kw units. I thought i would be right with a small 2kw unit as a 2kw electric heater overheats the boat quickly. For some reason the same is not true for diesel heating. Time for an upgrade. Any links on ebay marine mufflers and drain elbows would be appreciated. My experience with CO detectors is they don't seem to last very long before they need replacing.
Finding Dino
There are a number of sellers on the web, use the words Eberspacher, and marine in your search. Here is one to get you started.
www.butlertechnik.com/search/condensate-drain
Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thanks again hope we cross paths sailing
John, the videos have been great - binge watched them! And ordered a heater for my camper.
I have a question that's been bugging me. You may have answered this somewhere, but I didn't pick it up. I'd really appreciate it if you can answer this question. When you set the temperature on the thermostat and the temperature gets to the preset value in the cabin, does the heater shut off the diesel feed and air pump (that is does it initiate the shut down procedure) or does it just go into a low burn rate setting (low Hz)?
Hi Benny,
Most controllers just cut back the pump frequency and fan speed, but occasionally they shut down completely.
I personally often prefer to use the manual settings, but that is just me, others like the thermistor setting. I feel with manual you do not have the heater ramp up to maximum speed as it tries to increase the temperature of the heated area. With manual, I generally choose a quieter mid range setting and gradually increase the temperature without excessive noise. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John, my unit arrived today (surprised it was so fast), so I will find out. Another surprise is all the ducts and bits were packed within their own box and completely undamaged - another surprise! I get what you are saying about manual control to keep noise down. Thanks for another tip, I wouldn't have worked out until after it was installed. I may be able to accommodate for that in the camper as I build it.
Benny Banger ,
Thanks for the feedback. Safe travels. JMcK
Hi John, I built a portable heater for winter camping. What's proper ducting for that? The 3in rigid stuff is probably fine, tho my ducting with be exposed to snow. Any ideas?
That should be fine. A good way to keep warm. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 I went from a 3" diameter output down to 2.5 where it plugs into the camper...would that be real bad or OK? I'm worried about back pressure or something like that
No Vin, that should be ok.
It is most important not to restrict the combustion air inlet and exhaust outlet, not so much the hot air outlet. However go too small and you can get overheat issues. JMcK
What happens when the fuel runs out? Does the heater shut off itself? Is it bad for the pump etc?
Hi Jetmelt, if you run out of fuel you get an error code and the heater shuts down. Generally there are no adverse issues. JMcK
John: Q? I am about to complete my 5th wheel Dual heater install. Did a test run this evening works like a charm! my question is. Is their a way to intercept a trigger off one of the wires in/on the electrical system? My reason for this is. I want to trigger some inline duct fans. to help move the heated air to the rear of my RV. having a series of inline duct fans would do the job. I was going to have a look at some schematics if I can find some. But thought I'd ask the "Expert". so some trigger wire. Id tie it into a relay that would set off the fans. and when the heater shuts down? have the fans continue to run for some timed amount. Thanks again - Sam
Hi Sam, if you have circuit wire knowledge you could try and connect a relay into one of the fan wires. (Easily accessible). This would energise the relay when the ECB turned the heater fan on.
You would need to use a relay and have your fans on a seperate circuit. I say "try" as I have not done this myself, and although I see no reason it would not work, I have not personally tested for myself. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 John , that was my thinking exactly. However I am not sure if the fan motor is a PWM, etc.. Do you happen to know if its simply a voltage regulated fan? Not too familiar yet, but it sound like it spins at different speeds? I am going to remove the entire unit today and test the fan circuit. Fan circuit energizes a relay which in turn completes the circuit to 2 different fans. here is a little tidbit. I marked all the wires to differentiate the 2 units H1 and H2 since thier right next to each other and will share the same fuel tank etc. I powered up the system primed the fuel lines they fired up!... then 3-5 mins later err code... Both of them having diff err codes. I reset and re fired them up... then both ran for 3-5 mins and both producing heat, Bam err code and shut down.. At this point Im thinking how could both of them be failing? I might see1 but not both. I then realized I never marked the fuel pump it self I marked the connector, in effect the one unit was fueling the 2nd unit. While it eventually failed. amazingly, It still ran! incredible little units. well thats my dummy mistake. at my age? Im sure more to come :0. Million thanks John, -Sam
Sam Rod
Hi Sam, Thanks for the detailed feedback.
Yes the fan does spin at different speeds, and is the main cause of noise at high heat settings. My guess is it is voltage regulated. (Not tested though). JMcK
I'm building a 45' Teign designed by Paul Fisher in the UK, Selway-Fisher. I am in the US. My plans are to install three of these 5kw heaters in my boat. I have questions regarding combustion air, exhaust routing, and using a dampener on an air plenum where the heat and A/C ducts connect to move air through the boat. Is there a way to send you a wordy detailed plan of my ideas? I'd really like to get your feedback on them.
Hi Ben, Happy to have a look for you if you understand my comments are my opinion from my experience. The install is your decision. My secondary email below.
johnmck47@outlook.com
I finally received a heater. I ordered a 2kw and based on it's physical size I actually got one. But it came with a 22ml fuel pump. I was expecting a 16ml. I've ordered a 16 but it's coming from China. Should I wait for the 16? I'm anxious to fire it up.
Hi S, If I had a new heater, I would fire it up in a bench test. JMcK
thanks for the video!! what model is that quiet fuel pump? and what is the price point?
Hi Jasmin,
The fuel pump is a standard electromagnetic dosing pump, same as all the others. It is less noisy because it is suspended in space rather than mounted to a bulkhead, and then has a six inch mattress on top of it.
What do you mean by price point? You can pay well over $100 for one if it has a certain brand name, or around $20 off the internet for a similar unbranded pump.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you!! I saw some videos of people swapping their standard pump with a “quieter” $40 pump (with mixed success). I wasn’t sure if yours was a really expensive pump which might be even more quiet.
I guess it’s just the suspension of the standard pump that did it. Thanks again!!
Where do you find the copper condensation drain coil here in Australia?? I can't find it any where - and how do you tap the exhaust pipe ??? Its killing me!
Hi Charley,
There are a number of suppliers online, below is just one link to get you started. However, one will cost more than the heater itself. They are cheap and easy to make yourself if you have access to a TIG welder for a SS one, or you could make one using a copper elbow with just soldering skills.
Suggest, if you can't TIG weld or have a friend who can, you make your own from copper if you can solder, or have a mate who can. Remember to slit the copper elbow where it joins the heater and use exhaust gasket cement or HT Silicone.
There is no real need to have the copper coil removable if using all copper. It can be soldered to the elbow. Splay the tube where you solder.
www.everythingcaravans.com.au/products/autoterm-diesel-air-heater-exhaust-condensate-drain
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks SO much - I should be able to make it - your video is the only one that talks about it - love the videos!
👍
Hi, I think your videos are very good to learn about these heaters, I am about to install one in my boat and I am now learning how. You never mention in your videos if these chinese heaters are made for mount in 90 degree, so that the exhaust and inlet air pipes are sticking out sideways instead of downwards, I read in the technical manual of ebersprächer that they can? Keep up the good work!
Hi Peter, I do mention that these heaters can run on their side, but only the side with the glow plug on the top.
In actual fact, they will run in any position. - FOR A WHILE. Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Oh, i might have missed that, because I need to install my heater on a boat and its much more easier for me to install it on the side rather than stand up, because then I dont need a exhaust elbow to get the exhaust pipe up above the water line, where the outlet through hull exhaust will be. So this was good news for me. But I still need to have that damn thing called "water dripping condens". That part is a real pain, expensive and another thing with clamps and source for leakage. Thanks a lot for your quick answer and for doing such a detail review and research on these burners, thay are in a position where some considers them as a cheap China and that you should by "real quality" therefor your channel is a blessing. Regards Peter
@@pejochto1968
Hi Peter, if you do not have a low spot in the exhaust you do not need a condensation drain. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 That was great news, I think I can have it without a low spot if I lay down the heater on the side, then it would be quite straight upward to the through hull position. If I dont put it sideways I need to have an elbow like pipe to get it around the heater and then upwards. But that was good information. CHEERS /Peter
Hi John, thank you for your video. I’m really tempted to fit a Chinese 2kw unit in my 33 ft racing boat. Obviously I would use the marine exhaust upgrades and proper clamps etc but I have one question about the condensation drain. Webasto suggest that they are not needed with an exhaust run under 2 metres. Mine would be very short and I’m tempted not to fit a drain. What do you think?
Also were you planning to replace your Eberspächer with a Chinese unit?
Thank you for your reply!
Hi Justin,
Yes, I was going to replace the Eberspacher with a cheap Chinese heater.
The Eberspacher are excellent heaters but the cost difference was just too great for me.
The Chinese copies are also great little heaters, but their ECB,s and wire plugs are not sealed. (Eberspacher are)
In a marine environment I suggest you spray sealer on the ECB and something like WD40 on the plugs.
If you operate in a cold wet environment, (coastal areas) there is a lot of condensate produced.
If this water sits at the bottom of the exhaust, and you don't need much, it creates a blockage and the little heater fan is not powerful enough to blow it out. The heater will not run properly or even start.
If you mount the heater high up just under the deck, or in an outside locker and the exhaust went straight out you would not need a drain.
If the heater is mounted low down in the boat there is nothing stopping you from trying your heater without a condensate drain. You won't blow the heater up. I have not personally seen that Webasto comment. But I would personally use a drain in my boat install.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you very much John!
@@johnmck1147 Hi again John, I expect you may have covered this before but would you say in your experience that the Chinese units are similar to the German units from a running noise viewpoint?
Justin Barber ,
Yes Justin. JMcK
Hi John and co. I received my Chinese 8kw heater to day and have been looking at all the install videos of which I consider this one the best. The 8 kw ( if that is what it really is ) has four outlets @ 40 mm od. My boat is 46 ft ex-trawler and I decided on this model as I want to run four ducts to different parts of the boat. My problem now is that I can't find 40 mm ducting. Eberspacher makes a 60 mm duct but dear as poison and too big , if it was 50 mm I might have gotten away with adapting it but I think 60 mm is too big and as I mentioned very expensive. I have been googling for a couple of hours now and no luck ,flexible electrical conduit is the only thing I can find at the right size and price however I suspect the outlet temps will be too high for pvc which is what the flexible conduit is manufactured from.Does any body know where I might source proper hvac ducting in 40 or 50 mm? I guess my next move is to contact the ebay vendor in China, they obviously have a supply of the 40 mm duct , they supplied about 1.5 meters with the heater , I need about ten meters. Stay safe and warm Brad
Hi Bradley,
I think you will find your heater is actually a 5 kw heater, branded as an 8 kw heater.
It is generally better (resistance wise) to run a bigger main heater line if you have a long run and then run smaller outlets off the main line.
However if your heater has a 4 outlet head that is what you have. Search eBay for diesel heater outlet hose. Below is one link to get hou started.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/42mm-Diesel-Heater-Duct-Pipe-Hot-Air-Paking-Conditioner-Ducting-Aluminum-Foil-US/164136949482?hash=item26375316ea:g:JUIAAOSwZ~peF02g
You can also adapt aluminum vent ducting you can buy from a hardware store, but you will need some lagging as it gets quite hot. I have tested PVC, but it is it can get so hot it actually softens and loses its shape.
Cheers, JMcK
Hi John. Learned a huge amount amount about these heaters from your videos. Un fortunately too late! 😄 Mine won't start at the end of the Mediterranean summer. Just one question to confirm, if the glow plug is a dud then the pump won't cut in? Thanks, John Maclean
Correct, first the fan starts, then the glow plug comes on, then the pump starts.
The most common issues with the glow plug are,
Low battery voltage. It takes 10 amps of current to heat up the glow plug.
Carbon build up around the glow plug, the glow plug screen, and the tiny glow plug screen atomisation hole.
Blockage of the tiny start atomisation hole. Carbon, bug, dirt etc. Do you have a proper filter on the combustion air intake hose? JMcK
@@johnmck1147
Thanks for the reply John. Yes I do have an intake filter. What is stumping me is I have power to the unit but nothing is starting. I have checked the printed circuit visually and there is no frying, all looks good. It has worked perfectly until now and from following your videos I can see the installation is sound. Its correctly fuse protected and I have an inline master switch before the controller which is functioning correctly with no errors showing.
Hi John, suggest you first see if glow plug is working. Do you have, or can you borrow a clamp meter and put over the main power wire from battery to heater. You should see a current draw of around 10 amps. If not check your wiring is sound and the plugs, like controller plug is plugged in tight. If the battery voltage is good, and the wire connections are good you then need to check the glow plug. To do this you need to remove it and connect it to 12V. Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
Thanks John. 😊
Nice video! Many thanks! What do you think about an install of a "all in one" unit inside a boat?
Hi Mathieu,
That is a personal issue.
If done right it would be fine. It is very important you have a proper marine exhaust system.
It could work well if installed in a deck locker with the exhaust coming out the side of the locker.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Many thanks for your response. But the exhaust system seems scary (fire). Doesn't it run too hot so close to the fiberglass hull? Is there some kind of insulation needed? Or this kind (cfr link) of marine exhaust-muffler has a special cooling system? => www.heatso.com/webasto-marine-exhaust-with-silencer-muffler-24mm-diameter/
Mathieu D
Hi Mathieu, yes, in a normal boat install you would need exhaust lagging. In our Med boat the exhaust was installed like that some 20 years ago. We have had the boat for over 10 years without an issue.
Now, be aware that in our boat there is absolutely no storage in that transom compartment and no loose items. Because of this and the fact the exhaust pipe warms up the Transom Compartment and gets rid of condensation I have not (at this stage) lagged the exhaust.
The link you sent me was for a Webasto marine exhaust and muffler. Unless you have a setup similar to ours you would need to lag that exhaust. Be aware, in most marine installs you must have a sealed muffler, one without a drain hole.
I will be doing a video shortly on exhaust lagging.
Cheers. JMcK.
John McK 47 Thank you! A video on this subject would be really interesting indeed!
John, Excellent series Hats off to you. few Q's, 1: What do you think about relocating the ECU to the outside of the case? In the event of an abnormal shutdown? ie power outage 2: Im thinking of mounting 2 of these 5K units side by side to replace my RV's Suburban heater(propane/elec unit) which means 2 controllers side by side. thoughts? 3: On your boat. what controller are you using. it looks like a fantastic controller no word on it?. Million thanks for the awesome effort and series. you are an asset to the community. -Sam
Hi Sam,
It is most uncommon to have an abnormal shutdown and I would not go to all the effort to mount the ECU on the outside of the heater. Also a replacement ECU for the Chinese heaters is only around $20. You must have a very big RV or very cold climate to require two of these heaters. They put out a lot of "dry" heat, not "wet" heat like your gas heater.
I prefer the simple dial controller most times, but that is just a personal like. I also like the LED controllers, but prefer to run them on a manual setting, but that is just me. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 John, Thanks for the thoughts :) On your boat. specifically did you modify a readily available controller/remote or is your controller still available.? BTW my RV is 42' 5th wheel it has 5 slide outs. and an 8' ceiling. I think its about 400sqft? +/-
Sam
Sam Rod
Hi there, the simple controller on the table is available as a spare part, but sadly some Chinese heaters now are not using standard wiring. The controller on the wall of the boat is the Eberspacher controller and is 20 years old. It won't be a simple swap to a Chinese heater.
You have a large impressive RV. And I thought 2 slide outs in Aus was impressive, you have 5. Good luck with your install. JMcK
Hi John, Great videos, thanks. Question - When you are on your boat, how long do you leave your heater on? is it safe to leave on all night? Thanks again :)
Hi Rod,
With the shoulder season we would generally run the heater 2 to 4 hours in the early morning and again in the evening.
When we have wintered over on the water the heater would run 24 hours on very cold days.
With a good install and a CO meter installed, in my personal opinion, it is quite safe to run these heaters all night, and all day if you wish.
Regards. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John - Merry Christmas to you and yours from Bonnie Scotland :)
Rod
👍
Hi John, I've ordered one of these heaters to put in the shed, I was watching a vid on the heater by another guy and he was running the heater on it side, my question is, what do you think of running the heater om it side because I had the idea of instead of mounting it the "normal" way maybe I could mount it directly to the shed wall on it side, the sheds fiber cement sheeting this way the air intake and exhaust is poking straight out the wall and there's no need for the piping and that. What your opinion mate, all advise would be gratefully received. Would you do it !! Seeya Rob
Hi Rob,
These heaters can be run on their side provided it is the side with the glow plug is at the top. If the fuel tank is higher than the heater you should also install a fuel cut off valve in the line.
It makes good sense to side mount these heaters on a wall in a shed with a cement floor.
Regards, JMcK
hi john
I think from what I have seen you are the Guru of Diesel Heaters
here's my question I purchased an 8kw heater it worked great for a couple of days
we shut it down and when we came back to restart it we found the fans were run and we got an error code E07
unable clear or reset unit any ideas please ?
Hi Mr B,
E07 is a wire fault. Check that the plug connections are tight and there is no moisture in the connections. I suggest you unplug the connectors and spray them with WD40 or similar, and make sure they are tight when reconnected.
Also check that the 12V power line is ok and there are no lose connections and fuse is in tight.
Poor plug connection or moisture in the plugs is a common cause.
Regards. JMcK
Thank you I will give it a go
I recently purchased one and found a problem with the design imuo. Accidentally shorted the case to B+, (I have the tall skinny case version, it's the same inside as the modular units), and it failed.
Turned on, it displayed error 06, and the fan ran at full speed.
The error 06 info was useless, but the full speed fan turned out to be the clue needed to fix it.
After checking the sensors and glow plug, I realized it's on the control board, and with the fan clue (often FETs fail full-on), I started testing FET drivers looking for the FET that controls the fan. Replaced it and problem solved.
So what is the design flaw? The case should be grounded, or the motor should not. The only route a voltage can follow is from the case through the motor winding and to the FET, that I fried. It may require changes on the control board to run with a grounded case, can't know that without a circuit diagram. In short, don't short any metal parts to B+, including the exhaust pipe.
Hi FT Rider, thanks agin for this info. You would also need to be very careful not to short a modular unit as well as a enclosed case unit. Cheers. JMcK
Hi John, I want to buy a 2KW real bad. First off I'm in the USA. I'm trying to compare the specs but very few heaters list all the specs. I'm looking for the following approximate specs: weight 2.7kg. Length 300mm. Fuel usage .1L on the low end. Electrical consumption 8-22W. I found a 2.2KW that I like but it has 2 things that I question. First, the specs list the length at 310mm but it has a picture that shows 13.2 inches. Second it has a controller that has a flat 3 prong connector. It has 1 knob with a blue top and that's all. There are no other buttons or writing on it that I can see. It looks like it has a display though. But I want to replace it with the color LCD and I understand it to have a triangular shaped connector. Do you have any suggestions for me? Thanks, Steven
Hi Stephen,
Sadly many suppliers of these heaters are now going with non standard controllers, plugs and wiring, so it is not easy to mix and match, and you really need to buy a heater with the controller you want.
Also issues with the on line advertising. Eg standard 5 KW heaters being marketed as both 2 Kw and 8 Kw heaters.
2 Kw heaters approx size L 330 mm, H 115 mm, W 115 mm
5 Kw heaters approx size L 390 mm, H 140 mm, W 114 mm
Here is the listing of a 2 Kw heater I bought just a few weeks ago to help in your searching. It came with a standard dial controller with a standard triangular plug. However I have not yet bench tested it.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Air-Diesel-Heater-PLANAR-2KW-2000W-for-Motor-homes-Boats-Bus-Car-Truck-ee/323633205099?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Good luck. JMcK
Did swapping out the 2 controllers , one for the other, did that work?? I am thinking of doing the same thing.?
Hi , most time it works really well if they have the same plugs. However, some heaters have non standard plugs and reversed wiring. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 I have one of my heater with reversed wiring, can I change the wiring before changing the controller and then will it work?
sargetester99 , without seeing it I can't fully answer, but in theory it may work. JMcK
I am having a problem with error code E-05 on my unit....it looks like overheat code, any tips?
Hi Kaare, with common heaters E05 is an overheat issue as you state. First, when did it occur?
1. If the problem started on initial start up you could have a sensor problem, an ECU issue, an install issue, or a mechanical issue.
If a sensor issue or ECU issue, you should ask for a replacement heater.
A poor install is where you have blocked off or restricted the free flow of air from the heat exchanger.
You could have a fan issue where either the fan is faulty or the fan is scraping on the case and can not reach operation speed.
2. If the heater has been working well for some time, you could have a scraping fan, as described above, a heat sensor going us, or you have set the heat setting on the controller too high for the ambient temperatures. Measure the temperature of the air coming out of the heater about 500 mm from the heater, if below around 100deg C you would suspect a faulty sensor, or one not installed correctly.
I hope this helps in your diagnosis. JMcK