Just About Sailing March 2019 - Installing a Chinese Diesel Heater, Pt 2 Fitting it and switching on
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2019
- This video covers the actual fitting of all the bits and the initial start-up. There is nothing too complicated here - but do comment if you have ideas that might be useful for other people. I haven't done a full test yet - in fact I haven't read the instruction manual yet. But I will put it through its paces when we have a 'nice' cold day.
Really interested in this as I plan to purchase a 'live aboard' sailing yacht in the next year or so, thanks for posting.
Well, I have yet to properly test the new heater in any realistic way - but I am impressed with how much heat it pushes out. I lived on Serenity for 2 years mostly plugged into shore power. I used a very small electric fan heater combined with a desiccating de-humidifier (the desiccating ones work in the cold) and that was fine. But no good at anchor. I am hoping that the air blowing heater will both warm the boat up and help with condensation by circulating the air.
Good luck with your new venture.
Great guide of how to install the chinese heater. Thank you for sharing this with us. Regards Sander from the Netherlands
Glad you enjoyed it. Have a look at the titles of some of my other videos. I made a few changes. In particular fitting a water trap, and choosing where to put the air inlet. I also added some more lagging round the air outlet.
So far I am very happy with it.
Cheers, Paul
Top work. Given the current weather patterns I’m sure you’ll get some frosty nights in May or June to test it thoroughly!
Yes, it is certainly not unheard of to get frost in May. It will be interesting to see how good it is at reaching and maintaining a steady pre-set temperature. Although having now tried to read the instruction manual - it is pretty much unfathomable, so there might be a bit of trial and error involved. I also want to try out the remote control and see if I can switch it on from 'in bed' (the Vee Berth).
Hi mate, good video. After a couple of years I'm very close to installing one of these heaters in my 24 foot trailer boat. I'm in Victoria, Australia and for most of the time I need air conditioning, not heating, but recently I've been using a full set of camper covers and my wife and I have been holidaying and living aboard for a week at a time (work permitting). Having one of these heaters would really make the boating experience that much better - it means we don't need to rely on berthing in a marina and hooking our 240v electric heater to the town power supply, we could anchor up anywhere, switch the diesel heater on an nude-up with all that heat 🙂 the only issue worrying me, after this video, is the current draw. I have in total 200 h/a of battery power, not an issue with the engine running but at anchor, you unit pulls quite the current. Has is improved in the years since this video?
Hi there. Firstly, I am jealous that you need air conditioning more than central heating. I didn't realise that these 'Chinese Diesel Heater' videos would be so 'popular' when I first did them - I might have structured things a bit differently. But I was really discovering things as I went on.
Have a look at the next one in the series (Pt 3, April 2019). I did a much longer run and noted the power consumption etc.
Basically, it seems to take up to about 8 amps for a few minutes at start-up and switch-off. This seems to be mainly the glow plug which is either used to ignite the diesel when starting up, or burn it off (to prevent sooting up?) when closing down. It then drops quite a bit as it is really only the fan and the diesel pump taking energy - they are both on full pelt. It then drops down to about 0.5 or 0.6 amps as the fan and the pump go into a sort- of tick-over mode.
It then goes up again if the temperature drops (IE heat is lost out of the boat etc) and then ramps up a bit more. I think that the actual consumption would really depend on your boat setup - insulation etc.
Also, I have chosen to draw the air for the heating from outside. Some people draw it from the cabin and effectively re-circulate it. That would make a difference in how much you need to heat the air. Have a look at the two videos I did on preventing condensation for more details (One was the theory of why we get condensation in boats, the second was a practical test).
Sorry, long answer, but in short - I am quite happy with how little it draws in total. Even in the Winter a decent solar panel should be able to replace the spent amps quite happily.
Good luck with it!
Cheers, Paul
Nice install. As you were showing the current draw, I found myself wondering if you have ever looked into fabricating a solar panel arch for your boat. They seem to be getting quite popular for small sloops these days, and they look like a very practical and tidy way to get a couple of unshaded solar panels on board.
I do intend to install solar panel(s). I am not sure at the moment how I will do this. An arch is probably the best option. I have a slight issue in that the backstay is actually slightly offset (as part of the design). Although slight, the offset does have to be taken into account - I might even get the rigging changed a bit. The alternative is to have one solar panel and one wind generator.
I will do a power audit in the next month of so and work out what sort of power I actually need.
Cheers
Temporarily fitted mine yesterday and have to say very impressed and no problems. Bought the marine silencer but not happy about the poor quality exhaust tubes supplied as standard though so ordered some stainless webasto stuff and decent exhaust clamps to go with it. Everything else though has gone without a problem.
Andy
Excellent. Just in time for the first frosts. Yes, the basic accessories that come with the heaters are a bit poor in quality. I think I spent more on buying decent stainless steel stuff than I did on the actual heater.
Cheers
Paul
Nice job Paul, i put mine in a totally different place, the exhaust on mine gets VERY HOT so i warped it and put extra tube around it "it does worry me a bit how hot it gets" hope you are feeling better soon FAIR WINDS T.J.
Cheers T.J. - I shall be interested to see where you have put yours. I have only run mine very briefly (what you see on the video is all I have done). I think I will do another video with a longer run time, using the thermostat, and have a good look at current draw and how hot the exhaust gets etc. I must admit that I don't like having such a hot length of exhaust pipe inside the engine compartment. I did buy some lagging for the exhaust pipe, but decided not to use it. My thinking was that I wanted as much of the heat as possible to 'escape' before it got to the exhaust thru-hull. I don't know if that is the correct strategy or not. Maybe I should lag it all and send as much heat as possible out of the thru-hull. There is not an awful lot of guidance out there about this stuff.
So jealous! Looks like a good installation. I spent 4 hours installing my heater and the controller refuses to power on. I haven't quite given up yet though. I will have to check ALL the connections including those in the heater itself.
I must admit that I had my fingers very firmly crosses and was quite expecting that it might not work. I did wonder about rigging something up off the boat just to check that the unit was working. But fitting the actual unit was a very small part of the job, so I just went ahead and fitted it.
Good luck with yours - I hope it starts working.
This is my next job to do on mine. The combustion inlet is supposed to feed from outside though as on bad starts it can spew exhaust out. The heater inlet is best on the inside to reheat circulated air otherwise your pumping cold damp air into the boat. Especially on foggy days.
Andy, thanks. Yes I agree, the combustion inlet must feed from the outside. I had this temporarily hooked up snaking its way under the locker hood and out. I will shortly be finalising both of the inlets and sorting out something that is waterproof(ish) and external.
However, I don't agree regarding the heater air inlet. This is a contested topic with two definite camps. My belief is that the air should come from the outside to increase circulation and suck in cold air which holds less water 'vapour' than warm air.
The problem being that if I am making multiple cups of tea (as I am prone to do), the moisture (from burning flame and steam) will stay inside the boat (taken up by the warm air) and condense more readily on the cold (external) surfaces. Also, breathing (which I also tend to do a lot) produces a surprising amount of moisture.
However, as I say, this is a very contested subject and many people will agree with you. - And I totally get what you say about foggy days.
Are you going to video your installation?
Good luck with it.
Cheers
Paul
Hi, great video, thanks for that. I just bought one of these and your video will be invaluable. Question: where did you source your extra hot air ducting and exhaust piping, and the exhaust vent that you put in the transom? My boat (Moody 33) looks as if it’s had a heater installed in the past, but I think your idea of sticking it in the engine bay is great - I’ve got loads of (otherwise wasted) space there.
David
I got pretty much everything from ebay. I am based in the UK and I know that some items are difficult to get in other countries. I am pasting the links below - but I know that some may not work any more.
Bracket
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EBERSPACHER-D2-D4-WEBASTO-Planar-night-heater-MARINE-MOUNTING-BRACKET-316-/143213979958?hash=item215837e936
Silencer
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24MM-MARINE-EXHAUST-SILENCER-MUFFLER-STAINLESS-EBERSPACHER-DIESEL-HEATER-/183762469474?hash=item2ac918c262
Thru-hull
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/exhaust-outlet-24mm-for-webasto-heaters-stainless-steel-polished-eberspacher-d5-/183758810317?hash=item2ac8e0eccd
Oh, that's it. The other items seem seem to have disappeared - try searching 'Webasto' for the ducting and and stainless piping - also double check the size - there are at least two different diameters for the heater ducting. In the end the engine bay was easiest - I am not as bendy as I used to be.
Good luck. Let me know how it goes.
Cheers, Paul
Apparently once they reach the temp set on thermostat the current draw does drop fairly significantly. It's a good job you fitted it, you'll need it next week as it's supposed to be wintery weather!! A pain in the butt as I have a week off and was hoping for a few days out on the boat.
I will do a proper test and see how good it is at getting up to a specific temperature and staying there. It did seem to be running flat out all the time I had it on - but I think the maximum you can set it for is 35 C. I have heard it said that we are more likely to get snow at Easter than we are at Christmas - not sure how true that is.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Its forecasting wintery showers so you maybe right. I hope not!!
I’m glad you are solving all the problems before I do mine in a few weeks. What about changing you engine raw water intake seacock while you are on the hard? A Blake’s or at least a ball valve would be a lot better. Thanks for taking the trouble to film all this stuff. It is really useful for the rest of us and most entertaining!
James, do let us all know how your installation works out. The seacock that you can see on the video is actually for one of the cockpit drains. It is in horrible condition and will be changed. The raw water seacock and thru hull was changed at the same time the new engine went in. In fact all of the thru hulls and seacocks are going to be changed. I intend on using composite ones similar to the ones I have bought for the holding tank (half finished) project.
Just about sailing I’m glad about the seacocks. The composite ones are the way to go I’m sure. I have a horror of a failing seacock or through hull. It’s frightening how much water comes through a small hole in the bottom; I had a problem with my previous stern gland and believe me it’s harrowing when water starts to come in.
Hi Paul. I’m really impressed with your heating system. I wish I know about the Chinese version before I bought my eberspacher d4, don’t get me wrong it’s a great bit of kit. But yours was bout a 10th of the price. I have just bought an ONWA Chartplotter and AID transponder which I will be reviewing soon. All for under £500.00 with UK charts. We’ll done pal keep up the great work you will soon be back in the water.
Cheers John. I look forward to seeing the review. - I was most grateful to copy you on the Habitent, and I probably do need to upgrade my chartplotter (I have a very old Lowrance) and I would like AIS.
Back in the water? After doing all this work - no, I'm going to lock her up somewhere safe and warm. Seriously, I am really looking forward to getting back in the water.
Hi Paul. Talking about Habitent. I would suggest coating it with Fabsil. This is recommended by habitant to stop UV damage. I didn't and now after 2 years mine is starting to rip. I'm holding it together with sail tape at the moment. But remember mine is up all year round and this should no my put people off getting a habitant. I still think they are great value and I will be getting a new one, but this time coating with Fabsil.
Thanks John, good tip. I will do that. - I envisage using the Habitent a lot.
Good video. I'm thinking of doing this. btw I have same self steering system.
Geoff
A lot of people seem to be going for these units now that they are not the silly money that they used to be. Every boat is different, and every boat is awkward - so good luck with it.
I love my Seafeather - its just works. Excellent device.
Cheers
Paul
Nice install, about to do the same on our twister 28, if you don’t mind me asking where did you purchase the extra hose and insulation from?
Hi. Good luck with the installation. I purchased the hose and insulation from ebay. I got the hose from 'eberbasto' and the insulation from 'car-insulation-uk'. Two small points; firstly make sure you order the correct diameter of hose - I bought a 2kw heater, but it seems to be the same size as the 5kw one and the hose is a bit bigger. Second, I am a bit disappointed with the thermal qualities of the lagging. I bought it because it was cheaper than the eberspacher or webasto products - but I don't know if their products are better or not. Having said that, it is definitely a good idea to lag the warm air outlet.
Let me know how it goes. Cheers
I have a valve connected between the exhaust and the thru hull port which you can close while sailing, stops salt water getting in. 👍🏻
Interesting - sounds like a very good idea. What sort of valve are you using? I guess it must be pretty heatproof and also stainless steel. I could easily reach such a valve from the inspection hatch in the cockpit.
316 stainless heat-resistant ball valve
Would it be worth putting in some sort of damper/valve in the air intake so that you could switch it between drawing air from outside to drawing it from inside the boat? Sort of like the recirculate button on a cars ventilation.
If it is the depths of winter and you have the boat all sealed up would the heater have to work harder to blow air into the boat and possibly reduce the air flow rate? Whereas if it was on recirculate it would have almost no restriction on the air flow. It would likely also heat the boat quicker if it was drawing the already partially heated air from the boat and adding more heat to it.
Maybe a combination, start the heater on recirculate to get the boats temperature up fast and then switch to fresh air when it is just maintaining the temperature.
There may also be times when you want heat but the air outside is not "fresh", possibly a big boat in the next slip is warming up their big diesel engines and you don't want to draw that air into the boat. Or maybe when visiting the pump out dock on a cold day.
Yes, that would be a great modification.
I am thinking that I might take the external air from the Port side near to the quarter berth by routing the ducting under the cockpit floor. I then wouldn't need a lot of ducting to have a second switchable source of air from the quarter berth area.
Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 You did say you bought a little too much ducting. May as well make use of it and pretend you planned it that way from the start. :)
I was impressed with how quiet the unit was in the video. I have seen other channels put in similar units but theirs seemed much louder. I think that piece of rubber under the mount for the main unit was worth every pence you paid.
Yes, it was much quieter than I was expecting - and I still had the side engine compartment cover open. I am still thinking about soundproofing the engine bay. I was most concerned about the fuel pump - that was much quieter than expected.
I would rather order too much than too little - I've done that a few times in the past.
"not as mobile as I used to be" lol, after a few weeks of owning my first yacht, I have realised that being a member of cirque du soleil's contortionist family would be useful 😁. Seeing as you replaced a lot of the Chinese stuff that did or didn't come with it, it will be interesting to see how long the main unit lasts? Next season we are discussing removing four of the eight seacocks in ours (mostly by getting a composting khazi) your thru-hull removal video will be most helpful. Going in this Friday and I'm having sleepless nights over my Blake's and any leaks 😯
The hose clamps and exhaust bits that came with it would probably be OK for a van or shed installation, but definitely not for the marine environment. Only time will tell if the main unit will last.
There are a few videos out there on glassing over old thru-hull holes. I tried to stick to the 'official' West System instruction as much as I could (I think I linked to their document in the description of that video). I still don't know why they suggest putting an epoxy 'puck' in the middle - most people don't do this and don't have any problems.
I will be replacing all my seacocks shortly.
Good luck with the launch.
She's on the mooring and she didn't sink 😂😁🤣. Thanks for your vids mate and meeting with you, you helped me keep going. Sat here a few meters from when you was here watching the sun go down with a glass of champers. Tomorrow the real work begins.
Once the boat doesn't sink, everything else is a bonus. I am hoping that you will be putting some videos up - it would be nice to see the new boat. And you are in a great part or the world for sailing adventures. Very happy for you :)
Subscribe to me and I might 😁😂🤣
I've just subscribed to you - so that's a legally binding deal now.
hi hope you sorted out the heater as i see this was fitted in march. just wanted to say the thermostat is on the heater and controlled via the returning air so that returning air should come from the room that the outlet air is in , just in case you've left it drawing air from the engine room. also the outlet for the exhaust pipe should be lower than the unit and its designed not to burn the grp.
I haven't used the unit since I fitted it as the weather has been very warm. However, I will be finishing the installation and switching it back on again soon.
I'm not sure I totally agree with everything you say, but that's OK. So do feel free to comment again if you think you can clarify more.
I'm not sure why the exhaust pipe needs to be lower than the heater unit. I installed it so that there is a single lowest point (before it goes into the silencer). Condensation could gather here and I might install one of the drain loops that Webasto (and Wallas) make specifically for this (although it would need to drain into a sealed unit as it is inside the boat). The key thing I focused on was to have a significantly high 'swan neck' so that external water could not get in.
The inlet and exhaust air for the combustion chamber are both external (or will be).
There is much debate about whether the heating air should be taken from outside or inside. Ideally you would be able to switch it from one to the other (as in a car). I have decided to take my air from outside as I believe this is the best option to help reduce condensation. It will certainly not come from the engine room or the locker.
The exhaust outlet through the grp I fitted is specifically designed for boats. I am very pleased with how cool the outside bit is compared to the inner part.
My understanding is that you can set the thermostat either for the heater output temperature, or the temperature at the control unit. I am using the control unit.
I will do a full run for several hours and monitor current draw and fuel usage as soon as I have completed it and we get some colder weather.
Do feel free to disagree with what I have just written as I do want people to read the comments and then make up their own minds.
Thanks for watching.
Cheers
Paul
great setup. I'm about to install the same on my sailboat. can you comment on where did you get the steel exausting pipe? I simply can't find it in Canada.
Hi, good luck with the install. Let me know how it goes. I got the stainless steel exhaust pipe from a company called 'eberbasto' in the UK. Basically I searched for Webasto exhaust pipe and quite a few came up. However, I just had a look on the ebay Canada site and couldn't see any suppliers in Canada - and the one USA company seemed to be getting theirs from Germany.
I don't know if you have a local Eberspacher or Webasto dealer dealer - they might be able to help.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Thanks for the reply! Can you comment on how's the thru-hull holding so far? did you notice any heat issues in the thru-hull area? I have a 5kw heater and I did find this thru-hull, I think it is the same... www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-steel-thru-hull-exhaust-skin-fitting-24mm-to-Webasto-Eberspacher-/132959606014 I'm planning to buy it soon.
Andre, sorry only just picked up your reply - You Tube sometimes doesn't notify me and I need to check thru comments. The thru hull seems to be doing fine so far. I have run the heater a couple of times for over an hour. The double skin design really seems to keep the heat away from the fiberglass. Very difficult to measure the temperatures - but basically I put my finger on the outside bit and it felt quite cool - I did the same on the inside (briefly) and burnt my finger a bit.
The electrical power consumption seemed sensible 100 watts on start 30 watts steady state - the 100 watts on shut down is to purge and cool the unit down (I think). Looks like a great addition for UK Sailing.👍
Yes, I am sure you are right about the steady state (full power) being reasonable. Of course the start-up current draw is obviously the glow plug being heated up. What I didn't notice at the time, but can see when I look at the video, is that the glow plug switches back on during power down (you can see the little icon lighting up). I guess this is to make sure that all the fuel is burnt off - hence the current draw going up again.
It will be a great addition for UK sailing - I am now, rather bizarrely, looking at the weather forecast to see if there is a really cold day coming up so that I can do a test to see just how effective it is.
I had missed that the glow plug came on again during shutdown, and was wondering why the current went as high or higher than it did during startup. Your explanation seems reasonable. Looks like a great installation. An easier method of cutting the odd shaped gasket may be been to place rolled up sheet gasket in the cut opening, mark it on the outside, then cut.
Ken, excellent. Yes, an easier way of doing the gasket would be to do exactly as you suggest - great idea. I am going to do a part 3 which will simply be to switch it on (set to a particular temperature), leave it running for a while to see how well it regulates itself, and then switch it off and have a better look at the shutdown process. Cheers.
Hi, thanks for the video. You have some running experience now with your installation, did you get any issues over the years of use? Condensation or backsea water into the exhaust etc..
I have a small 20ft sailboat and I planning to make an installation of a 2kw heater this winter when the boat is up on land. I have a very limited space to mount it in the boat and it's going to be a challenge to get a safe installation. My concern is to get sea waters in to the exhaust from following sea waves, and a need to design some kind of water trap with a drain.
BR Kalle
Hi, unfortunately I don't have any sea-going experience with the heater. Serenity is still on dry land. Health problems have meant that it is taking me ages to finish the refit and get back in the water.
I did fit a small water trap at the lowest point in the exhaust. It is one of those ones with a loop of copper pipe that allows water to drip out, but won't let the gas out. It is really only for the condensation from the combustion process.
One option I was thinking about was to find some way of sealing off the exhaust when the boat was sailing. That would mean that the heater couldn't be used under way. Not really a problem - but you would need a failsafe way of ensuring that the exhaust was clear when you did switch on the heater.
I just looped the exhaust as high as I could to try and stop water getting in.
As I say, unfortunately I haven't bee able to do a proper 'at sea' test. However, I do switch the heater on and it starts u fine every time.
Good luck with it.
Cheers, Paul
Nice bit of kit. A sidenote: The thruhull in the engine bay looks pretty corroded....around 11:05...maybe you should inspect that thing or even replace it?
Edit: Just noticed comments further below, that you are going to replace the seacocks.
Well spotted and thanks for pointing it out. But as you have noted, I am going to replace all of the seacocks. In truth, I should have replaced that one (and its twin on the other side) when the engine was replaced 3 years ago. I'm not sure why I didn't as I did replace the engine cooling raw water thru hull and seacock. Maybe it didn't look as bad as it now does.
Please do keep pointing things out as I am always surprised how easy it is to miss something you look at every day. And so far, I am very pleased with the heater. Cheers.
What sort of supplier/shop sells all the additional pieces you bought for the installation? Thanks!
Hi, I bought all the additional stuff from ebay. If you do a search on 'Webasto' or 'Eberspacher' you should find most of the things. It does depend on what country you are in. I know that some people in Canada have had problems getting the stainless exhaust.
Cheers
Paul
Want to do mine but not too sure what's best for sealing exhaust outlet as I'll be making an hole in the fibreglass the boats made of. Any tips would be appreciated. Great video BTW.
Good question. I worried about this. Firstly, I used an exhaust outlet with a double skin. I then made a gasket that went round the metal (stainless steel) outlet and the hull. I think I also made a gasket to go on the outlet flange. I can't remember what the gasket was made of - but I seem to remember that it was specifically for exhausts. I also used some heat resistant silicone gasket stuff that came in a tube.
Also, there is quite a long distance between where I have put my heater and the outlet (gives things a chance to cool down a bit). When I ran the heater I was pleasantly surprised at how cool (well, not too hot anyway) the area round the outlet was.
Good luck with it.
Cheers, Paul
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 thanks for the reply. I'll get the bits ordered and let you know how I get on 👍
Where did you get all those parts? Rubber sheet, reflector, through Hull heat sheet stuff?
I got pretty much all of it from suppliers on eBay. I was going to provide a list of links - but they all change so often. For the heater specific parts I did searches on Eberspacher and Webasto parts. The spare parts came out as more expensive than the actual heater. It depends which country you are in, but for some reason people in Canada have found it very difficult to get decent stainless exhaust tube.
I probably didn't need the muffler - it's not that loud. However, the muffler that comes with it should never be used on a boat as it is designed to drip water under a van. In a later video I installed a proper marine water drain with a loop.
Paul
Great job exhaust drain for condensation
Steve thanks. Have a look at my 2nd video in December 2019. I did (eventually) fit a drain to the exhaust for condensation in that video. I probably should have fitted one straight away. I don't know how much of an issue it is - but obviously (even with diesel) there is quite a bit of water produced during the combustion process and if it isn't blown out with the exhaust it has nowhere to go except to pool at the bottom of the exhaust.
Cheers
Paul
What country are you in? I hear doves and another bird that we here out here on Canadian west coast! WE are enjoying your vids.
Darryl
I am in the South East of England in Kent, not far from the coast. We have a lot of wildlife around where I live - although probably not as much as in Canada. We even have Beavers (a smaller European version) in this area.
There are a lot of starlings round here - they are probably the ones making the most noise. We also get swifts and swallows that flu all around you when the insects are out. Oh and we have some lakes nearby and have a few hundred geese, including a lot of Canadian ones.
Thanks for watching.
Cheers
Paul
Make sure you have a fire alarm and co alarm the Chinese heaters are poor quality so you need to take Precautions. Very good job with the Video mate
Paul
Thanks. Good advice. I do have a CO detector, but not yet a fire alarm. I have been on a boat once where smoke started to come out of a locker. It turned out to be shorting wires melting the insulating plastic. Could have been very nasty. Fire must be about the worst thing to happen on a boat. And I will most definitely not be leaving the heater switched on when I am not on the boat.
Cheers
Paul
Hi just wondering why some people fit the fuel line into bottom of tank rather than the top. I fit my pipe to top. It makes it a lot safer when removing tank or disconnecting fuel lines for servicing. Saves draining tank etc. The fuel pump is designed to suck fuel and not gravity fed. Is there any advantage over fitting in bottom of tank. Cheers from old George 👍🤠🇬🇧
Good question. I tend to fit fuel lines into the top wherever possible. The only reason I fitted to the bottom in this instance is that this was the fitting kit I received withe the kit. I intend to change the 5 litre tank for a 10 litre one - which I have purchased along with the 'dip' tube for top fitting.
As long as the fuel pump is not being overstretched, I don't think it makes much difference - but I'm no expert.
I tend to prefer top fittings because it is more leakproof.
Cheers
Paul
That's very interesting. I've been considering one of these to replace my increasingly temperamental Erbespacher so I'll be interested to see how it holds up but under £400 for the whole thing is about 25% of a "real one" so if it only lasts half as long... Incidentally, I have mine fed from the main tank with a short pipe so that the heater runs out of fuel before the engine!
The price really is very favourable. I think it is important to replace some of the less well made ancillary bits like the hose clamps etc which work out to be more expensive than the actual heater. And if the heater does fail, it will be simple to just swap out the heater unit as they all seem to be interchangeable size-wise. I might well feed mine from the main tank with a shorter dip pipe as you say. Cheers.
This is long awaited the excitement will brew until ive cut the grass.Captain Als adventure ended in detonation, is this the detonater🐳🐳🐳
I will never try and compete with Captain Al - especially the final scene - I hope.
Hi Paul, how did this go I have eventually bought one of these but I've seen a few things saying not to have a dip in the exhaust which is almost impossible on a boat, I will have to do the same in my install.
Have a look at the December 2019 video. It's a long video, but I show a device right at the start that I fitted precisely because of this problem.
You're right, it's almost impossible on a boat to not have a dip. I think the main problem is that quite a lot of condensation is caused in the exhaust an it will pool. Some people seem to just live with this - which is what I was going to do. But the proper answer is to install a drain - which is what I did. It's basically a loop of very small tubing which you initially fill with water (after that the condensation should keep it topped off). The weight of the water stops the gasses getting out, but 'physics' means that the water will drip out as it collects.
You can buy them on ebay. Either a proper Webasco/Wallas one or a much cheaper one - I went for the cheaper option..
I have been using the heater all the time this Winter. It heats up quickly and it is a really nice comfortable dry heat.
Good luck with it.
Cheers
Paul
Sorry, replying to my own comment. I've just realised that the fitting of the device was about 2.5 minutes into the December 2 2019 video.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 I have a plan now involving a condensate trap so see how we get on 👍👍
That's interesting. Let me know how it works out.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Will do I will do it sometime this winter
Have you tried sleeping on the boat since you sailed it round to Kent last year, or was it the year before? Or are you now total land lubber? If latter, must be a bit frustrating, don’t become another Mads - it would be great to see you sail the old girl. Enjoy your vids, keep up the great work 😁
Cheers, thanks for the support. It is appreciated. I have slept on the boat a few times, but I have taken the cushions out at the moment during the dusty work. I wish I could become a Mads in terms of the amount of work he gets done. The latter part of last year went a bit pear shaped and very little got done.
I have lots of half finished jobs at the moment. My aim (don't hold me to this) is to get all of those finished in April and then set a realistic plan for getting back in the water. I want to get back in the water even if I don't go off cruising straight away :)
YOU COULD PUT A BOX on the exhaust with a fan to blow some of the excess heat around
Yes. It's a shame that there is so much heat going to waste.
Some systems have a concentric setup (Exhaust pipe inside the inlet pipe) so that the air coming in is heated by the air going out.
Someone somewhere has probably already done this.
Cheers
Paul
Cutting the hole through the transom was worrying and then crafting a gasket to protect the core as the exhaust passed through it was mind boggling to someone like me with Dyscalculia. I would have rolled a short tube of the gasket material, pushed it through the hull, fixed it in place and scribed a line on both sides of the hull, inside and out, then cut it. Dont think I could have figured the shape out your way and I havent even heard of compound curves and Euclidian what the heck thingy stuff. Nice instal though
That is exactly, 100% what I should have done. Looking back on it, I have no idea why I made it as complicated as I did. Weird, because I make templates for just about everything else.
It worked, eventually - but f there is ever a next time, I will do it differently.
Cheers, Paul
Nice video
i think the insulation material is for the exhaust pipe this will be verrry hot , and you don.t wa,tt it to cool down a lot because of the risk of condens in the exhaust
Thanks for the comment. Yes, I agree about the potential problems with condensation in the exhaust pipe. My plan is to put in a drainage loop device which is specifically made for exhausts in boats.
This allows water to escape without letting exhaust gasses get into the boat.
Cheers
Paul
André Walgemoet Interesting! I was thinking about wrapping thin copper tube around the exhaust pipe, and using it to heat my hot water, but I see your point about condensation.
Where did you get black hot air hose from please??.
I got it from Ebay. I've long since lost the link. But if you search for "webasto heater duct pipe" you should find some.
Make sure that you check which diameter you need as there seem to be a few different ones.
I hope that helps
Cheers, Paul
I feel like having the intake in the engine compartment isn't the best idea. I guess it's OK but it just doesn't feel right to me.
You are absolutely right. It would not be a good idea. Maybe I needed to make it clearer on the video. I just hooked up a couple of hoses so that I could get it running.
Both the air intake for the combustion chamber and the air intake for the heating air will be taken from outside the boat - in different places.
A lot of people put the heater in the cockpit locker and then just let the air get sucked out of the locker. Even the Webasto diagram does this. - I don't like that idea. I will put a longish hose onto the intake and lead it through some loop (yet to be designed) and such the air in from the cockpit area or the coamings.
This is a very unregulated area, but there are some safety guidelines (mostly for canal boats) regarding these type of issues. I have (or will) pretty much stick to them.
Two things I worry about.
A.... Chinese electronics
B.... Electrickery that results in the rudder falling off just when you need it
C.... Both the above in the same boat at the same time
You had an arm full of "harness". How do you know it doesn't leak current?
How do you test your boat's (current) leakage (before and) after this project?
Hi. Let's be honest. It's always going to be a risk going for a 'cheap' product wherever it comes from. The Chinese heater was significantly cheaper than the German equivalent. It's a risk. But if it fails I can always save up and replace it with a more expensive one. I did consider a Planar which is Russian made and more expensive. I know nothing about Russian electronics - except they make decent replacement valves for guitar amps.
The wiring harness was actually quite nicely made with decent connectors. I used to do a lot of work on British cars in the 1970s and 80s. The quality of the wiring on those was simply awful. The original wiring on the boat would be about the same vintage.
I don't know the current leakage under 12V DV. But I do have a galvanic Isolator fitted for when I'm plugged into shore power.
And my rudder was in danger of falling off through crevice corrosion. I replaced the stock - check out the videos from about 2 years ago (I think?).
My main worry? Running out of tea on a long voyage. The very thought makes me shudder ;)
Cheers
Paul
I would definitely treat the cut-out in the stern with epoxy before I fitted the exhaust fixture in there...
That's a very good point. Looking back, I'm not sure why I didn't - maybe the sun got to me.
I did put tons of silicone in the affected area. I think it would be difficult to go back and re-do it now.
Thanks for commenting - it might help others. Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Well, after having used silicone in there, there will be a huge problem using epoxy later. Hopefully, your fix will be good enough. Thanks for a very interesting video!
Cheers - I hate using silicone on the boat. It was possibly because I was focused so much on using this horrible stuff that I didn't think about doing an epoxy barrier coat. The only other time I have used silicone (on replacing the hatch acrylic) that didn't go too well either as I didn't quite use enough.
Oh well - I'd better stick to epoxy from now on.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Sounds good! ;)
Please could you explain what you mean by treating the cut-out with epoxy. Is this epoxy paint, and is it instead of sealant?
Hello, we installed a very similar system - from Webasto - to our boat about 6 years ago. Last time we wanted to use it, we noticed that the exhaust joint rusted completely, leaking fume to the cabin. I have to say - you made a bad decision. Check out the 12v infrared heating films... they cost nothing, you can easily install them, no through hall needed. Ok, we have solar panels on the boat and a large battery bank - but you need to have good energy setup if you plan to stay off shore. Diesel heaters are the past. infrared is the present and the future.
Thanks for the comment. I am sure you are right that electric solutions (to pretty much everything) is the future. Am I right that the infrared films are underfloor heating? Very interesting concept. This is a technology I know nothing about - please feel free to recommend any articles or videos etc. Cheers.
Maybe I'm getting a bit set in my ways, however, you have failed to convince me that 12v infrared is the way to go. I rather like the thought of turning diesel into heat.
Hello, infrared film is not just underfloor. You can bet it anywhere. Last time I put it around a wine barrel to keep the vine at constant temperature. it can be rolled up and stored away in the summer, you just attach it over the bed or anywhere for the winter. There are 12 v infrared films awailable. I built them in the ceiling in our house - just as an additional heating element.
I will watch the development of this one with interest.
@@Ken-jh4bt ok. Your boat, your way.:)
Wish I could find part 1
Jason, very good point. I am about to re-arrange the videos into playlists. There will be a specific playlist for the Chinese Diesel heater. I did a couple of 'main' videos and then a few where I made a few alterations - like installing a water trap.
Hopefully that will get done this weekend.
I had no idea that so many people would be interested in these heaters. Having said that - they are so cheap compared with the alternatives. I couldn't have afforded a Webasto or Erberspacher - so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised.
I'll drop you another reply to this message when I've set up the playlists.
Assuming I can find Part 1 of course ;)
Cheers, Paul
Can you list some suppliers of some of the gear please
I got pretty much all of the gear from Ebay. Both the heater itself and the ancillary stuff (lagging, exhaust etc). All the links I had seem to have gone dead now.
What I can suggest, and what I did, is to search Ebay for Webasto and/or Eberspacher accessories. As well as the genuine items, you will find a lot of cheaper alternatives.
I hope that works for you.
Cheers
Paul
Did you fit a CO2 detector?
Very important point. At the moment I only have a Carbon Monoxide detector - with a very loud alarm. I plan to fit both CO and CO2 detectors. The biggest danger is probably from CO because that could be produced both by the diesel heater and the stove. Although diesels tend to produce very little of either.
Fumes and invisible gas (particularly heavier than air gas - propane, petrol fumes etc) are always a worry.
I have never smelled any fumes at all from the diesel heater, but of course, both CO and CO2 are odorless.
The biggest issue with diesel exhaust is probably Nitrogen Dioxide and Nitrogen Monoxide. I am not aware of any consumer units that can measure this. I think the industrial ones are very (very) expensive.
The combustion unit is sealed, so there won't be any CO coming out of it through partially burnt fuel and I have tried to make the exhaust system as gas tight as possible. I was very keen to get rid of the rather flimsy exhaust that came with the unit. And the supplied muffler was never designed for marine use. I also used proper exhaust clamps and 'gun-gum' exhaust putty.
Cheers, Paul
Is there a thermostat
Yes. In fact there seems to be two. One in the actual heater unit and one in the LCD control unit. I think you can choose which one to use to set the temperature. The instruction manual is almost undecipherable on the subject of how to actually use it - and the printing is tiny and almost unreadable. So I think I need to do a bit of internet research on how to actually use it. I might do a short specific video on actually using the thing in practice.
I would also love to find out if there is a way of just using the fan without the heat as it would be a great way to circulate air on a hot day.
At the moment, I am simply very pleased that it actually works.
So I just bought my own similar version of this heater. The exhaust port, I bought almost exactly the same as you. Would you shift the position of it today? I worry about water coming in if a wave hits me from behind. How would you position yours if you had the same boat as I have, I have a Hallberg Rassy Rasmus 35 ketch. Exactly like the ketch here... www.hallberg-rassy.com/yachts/previous-models/hallberg-rassy-rasmus-35/
Mikael. First of all, that is a very nice looking boat. I am slightly jealous.
I don't know - is my honest answer. You have a very different layout to mine with your rear cabin. I printed out a few plans for my boat and sketched in different layouts (I went through this on this video, or was it the one before? - It was a long time ago) and then put in a cardboard mock-up of the heater before I finally decided where everything should go.
I am not 100% sure I have put the exhaust outlet in the right place. I hope I did. However, I do have loads of room and was able to loop the exhaust hose very high. I think it is high enough to stop water getting as far as the heater.
Have a look at On Board Lifestyle (can't remember which video - about a year back?). They have a catamaran. Teal did a similar loop and mounted his exhaust outlets (two heaters) on the front of the bridgedeck, which is quite exposed to waves from the front.
I believe that Webasto, Eberspacher, or Wallas do an exhaust outlet that you can close off (in heavy weather) and make watertight. Of course it is probably very expensive and you would have to make sure you remembered to check that you had opened it before switching on the heater.
Good luck with it. Let me know what you do.
Cheers
Paul
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 thanks for your answer. I'll probably go with your solution. I've seen many do it the same way here at CZcams, so I'm gonna go with that. Maybe I'll buy some form of plug if I'm out at sea with high waves
Really unhelpful video, where you don’t actually show the full set up and merely jump about from one area to another. You completely leave out how the electric system is set up, and the fuel lines. A total waste of 20 minutes viewing, for someone looking to see how to install and set up a diesel heater😢
Mike, sorry you didn't get what you were looking for from the video. I do normally say at the start of videos that it is not a 'how to do' type video. I showed in Pt1 that the instructions came with a diagram of both the wiring and the fuel parameters (maximum height levels etc). Each install would be so different for each boat. The wiring just clips together - it's just a matter of ensuring the runs aren't too long.
There are also very different safety regulations in different countries. I found some to be very contradictory. The USA vs UK rules (guidance) on grounding and earthing, for example, are very different. I am based in the UK and found some very useful information on inland waterway regulations. There is very little regulation for offshore boats in the UK.
If in doubt, get a professional to check your wiring and fuel plan.
The videos where I do go into much more detail are to do with where to draw the heating air - from the inside, or form the outside. This is all to do with preventing condensation, and getting it right is critical to prevent future problems. Sorry to say that the two videos (Nov 2019 and Dec 2019) are both very long. - One one the theory and another showing a practical example that it is important and does work.
Sorry again that it wasn't what you were looking for. But all the best for your installation.
Cheers, Paul