Ron, thanks. I am very happy with the little unit. Of course, it is the installation that is the major part. But it has been reliable and was very cheap - I can't ask for much more. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts. Cheers Paul
It wasn't really in my plans to install a heater. But this was actually quite a straightforward job in the end. Hopefully I haven't made too many decisions I will regret later. Cheers.
Thanks for watching. Like most jobs it is 95% thinking/planning and 5% doing. Hopefully not too many bad decisions along the way. I still need to sort out the heating air intake and combustion chamber intake. And of course a final fitting for the diesel tank. But that might have to wait a while. Cheers
Yes, that's pretty much it. I like to know that any 'mechanical' devices I buy have been designed to operate based on sound principles - and that is not always the case. I am happy with what I have discovered about this unit.
Very interesting (and not at all boring!). It will be interesting to know the consumption on a daily basis of usage once you'll be staying in the boat for a longer period of time, compared to weather conditions and outside temps! Thx for sharing!
Thanks. I would have preferred a colder day for the test, but it has been quite warm here recently. I was concerned that the power consumption would be around 3.3 amps all the time when the unit was on. I am much happier that it drops to 0.6 amps for quite long periods when it is in idle mode. At least I can start to make a few calculations regarding power requirements. I might have to wait until next winter to get any 'real life' measurements. Cheers.
Thanks for watching. I need to finally sort out the air intakes to make them watertight. Hopefully I can then do some 'real life' testing in Winter conditions and really evaluate how well it performs - and more detail on electricity and diesel usage. Cheers
Those thermal guns are very dependent on the "emissivity" of the material. Basically the brighter the surface (like SS) the less accurate the reading. Those heaters are becoming very popular with the on-land van camper crowd. Well done!
Cheers Tom, yes I should really put some matt black paint splodges on the exhaust and re-measure it. Ah, a van heater. That gives me an idea - Maybe I should put wheels on Serenity. A lot of people in the yard have been asking me about the heater. I think that the price coming down for these units had made them become much more viable. But, as we know, everything is at least 10 times more complex when we install it on a boat.
Thanks. I'm very pleased with the heater. If you haven't seen it already, check out Onboard Lifestyle (it was a few months ago) - Teal fits two of these units in his catamaran. He is a real perfectionist. Good luck with it. Cheers Paul
Very interesting little series on this heater unit. One question, what diesel consumption are you getting? Ball park figure of course as I assume it will depend on heating settings choosen and ambient temperature when run.
The honest answer at the moment is that I don't have a definitive answer. And as you say, it will depend on a lit of other factors. I have seen some estimates where people say that they use 1/4 litre per day and others that say 1/4 litre per hour. - That is quite a wide range. My current plan is to keep the diesel for the heater in a separate 10 litre tank (the one that came with the heater is only 5 litres) so I can keep an eye on it. The tanks are see through so I can mark litre lines on the outside and keep track of consumption. - I meant to do this for the test - but forgot, although the level didn't appear to have dropped at all. I normally keep the main tank (85 litres) filled up and carry another 20 litres spare. Also, in the UK (I don't know where you are writing from) there is a very strange, complicated and unclear situation with regard to the tax on diesel for boats. Basically, there is a lower tax applicable for diesel if it is to be used for heating, but not for propelling the boat. Too complicated to go into. That wasn't a very good answer was it. But I will be monitoring usage when I start cruising.
Nice - I hope that heater gives you a long service life. That's always my concern for some lower priced bits of kit - but I've had issues with more expensive devices as well - product support may be the difference, I guess. If you can get a glow plug though - everything else seems external and easily replaced.
I believe I can get a glow plug for about £10 - I should carry a spare, I guess. I don't think there will be any product support, but who knows, I might be pleasantly surprised.To be honest, I don't think there is a single item on a boat that isn't going to go wrong at some point.Cheers
Just about sailing Get a spare while you can and make sure it’s the right one and stow it with a spanner that fits. You can be sure that when it packs up it will be at the worst possible moment ! 🤪✌️
Great video. Could be on the short list for next years Oscars. I wonder how far that differs from an Eberspacher in terms of performance, amp draw etc?
That would be a very short list of films, and I am not sure what category it would be in - films to sleep through possibly. It would be interesting to see how it differs from Eberrspacher, Webasto, Planar etc. It is also possible that it differs from other Chinese Heaters. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the well thought out way that the power up and power down worked. Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 no way dude! You get an Oscar in my book. It's December im in Seattle (same climate as the UK) and been looking at heat options for my little westerly cirrus I was hanging on every word. I am pointing in that direction at this point. Thank you for taking your time to put this out there.
@@scott.wallace8625 Cheers Scott. I am still happy with the heater. I have recently done another video where I tested out where to best put the heater air input to reduce condensation - I'm pleased with the results of that. I also looked a bit more closely at fuel and amps consumption. I also increased the insulation on the conduit between the heater and the cabin (about 5 ft in my case) - that made quite a difference. If you haven't seen it already, check out Onboard Lifestyle's channel. They installed two of these units on their catamaran when they were based in Seattle. - Yes, it is the same climate. Cheers Paul
Well I found it interesting but wonder what that says about me.😳 Are you only have one warm outlet in the boat? I would most definitely insulate the exhaust line. Thank you for sharing.😀⛵️
Oh dear, I am starting to learn something about what my subscribers like. I might have to do an 'epoxy drying' in slow motion video - mind you, I'd watch that. I am still torn about whether to insulate the exhaust or not. I did buy the material to do it, but figured that I wanted to get rid of as much heat as possible before the hot gas got to the thru hull - the opposite of what I want for the heating air going to the cabin. I might change my mind on this one. And thanks for noting it - it is one of the reasons I ask people to always read the comments. I am only having one outlet. Serenity is actually a lot smaller than she looks in the videos, especially when I use my 'cheap go-pro' camera. So not a huge amount of space to heat up. I wandered into the Vee Berth to check what it felt like - it was definitely a bit cooler, but we will have to see. Cheers
Yes, I eventually took the exhaust lagging off when I fitted an exhaust drain water trap (thing). And also increased the lagging on the heater outlet. Cheers, Paul
Actually Id say it was very interesting... or at least it was to those of thus that might want to fit one ourselves... although it wasnt very exciting :-)
Thanks Ian. Hang on - have you just copied and pasted a comment from my Christmas Special? Yes, I was well aware that it would mostly just be a camera shot of some instruments changing very slowly. I knew that the heater would kick out a lot of very warm/hot air from my very first test when I installed it. I really wanted to get an idea of the power consumption as the thermostat kicked in and out. It performed better than I expected. It seems to get up to the desired temperature very quickly (full power at 3.3 amps) and then spend ages at the tickover (0.6 amps) pushing out a small amount of warm air as the temperature drops. I suppose I could have made it more interesting by doing a multi screen shot so you could see the diesel level - it didn't look like it moved at all. Cheers.
Patrick, there are quite a few of these advertised on ebay. The specific one I purchased seems to have vanished. However, here is a link to something that looks the same for about the same price. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/exhaust-outlet-24mm-for-webasto-heaters-stainless-steel-polished-eberspacher-d5-/183758810317?hash=item2ac8e0eccd I specifically wanted one that would fit a sloping transom. There are a few other designs if your transom is more vertical. Cheers Paul
I’ve installed two of these and I speak highly enough about them. My installations have been in caravans and now I want to put one in my boat. I’m concerned about the exhaust. Can you please tell me where did you source your outlet flange? BTW good job on these but I’ll offer one suggestion. If buying a Chinese heater, it’s always a good idea to bench test it before the actual installation.
Brendan, good luck with the install. Finding a good location in a boat is 90% of the process. Initially I was going to tuck it away out of sight. But then decided that ease of access was key. It is actually quite easy to take it it out where I have placed it. Although I'm not as bendy as I was. The exhaust is definitely a key consideration. I found the outlet flange on ebay. Search under Webasto, Eberspacher for exhaust fittings and some will come up. The original link for mine is long gone. Mine was made in Turkey (cheap) which is where a lot seem to come from. I did a few update videos. One of the things I should had done straight away is to install a water trap. There should only be one 'dip' in the exhaust run and it needs a trap. Again, I bought a cheap one off ebay. Check out the first few minutes of my December 2019 video for details. My boat is still out of the water, but I have run the heater several times and I love it. Cheers Paul
Great video I’m considering on buying two of those heaters for my catamaran much cheaper than paying £2000 for a pair eberspachers Or might get just one to try it first
Thanks for the comment. I am in the middle of putting together a new video on the heater - which should be out before the end of November. I have done a bit of theory on where to best take the heating air input from to minimise condensation. The new video will be a practical test of which works best - and also how much diesel and electricity (amps) is consumed. So, far I am very happy with the heater. Check out Onboard Lifestyle. They fitted two similar units in their catamaran and seem to be very happy with them. Cheers Paul
Good info, Thx. I was wondering, some liveaboards mentioned using those heaters to dry out the boat. Usually with the heat the boats start to sweat around the windows and bad insulated areas and produce increased humidity due to condensation which on boats is always a problem with generating mold. Maybe they used a secondary route for the air intake from inside the cabin like a closed loop ? Those heaters move a lot of volume of air and the increased air circulation should have a further positive effect compared to other heating systems. Have You noticed any of those effects ? Cheers
I have only just installed this heater, so I am not sure yet whether or not the heater will help with condensation. When I was living on the boat for two years in a marina/harbour with shore power I used a desiccating de-humidifier. That was 100% effective - you could even hang up wet clothes of towels and it would dry them as it literally sucks the water out of the air. Unfortunately it would need too much power for off grid use. I am toying with the idea of being able to switch the input from getting the air from the inside or the outside. My instinct (with a bit of science) is that having a through put of circulating air taken from the outside would be better than recycling and warming the air already in the cabin. I guess I will find out in good time. Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Yes, the power consumption is the issue with the de-humidifier. Well, actually it would not be recycling.You would only connect the air intake port for the combustion chamber to the inside of the boat. This air from the chamber gets blown outside through the exhaust afterwards. Of course the whole process might be a lot slower then with a de-humidifier. I would argue the need of connecting the air intake of the chamber to fresh air because the boat will never be air tight. Of course using fresh air for the fan has advantages. I think this is an interesting topic because of the two completely independent air intakes. The outside fan is producing heat by cooling the unit with air from where ever the unit is installed and the inside fan acts like a compressor injecting air from the intake port into the chamber. That is the one I refer to.
There is some safety guidance from the International Institute of Marine Surveying that states that you must not take the combustion air from any accommodation area. I'll link to their document below. I guess the fear is that if something blocked the exhaust outlet then there is a route for the gasses to get into the accommodation. The guidance also says that you shouldn't take the fresh air from inside an engine compartment (which is where my heater is located). But I do get the logic of your argument. I have seen a few van installations on CZcams where the fresh air is simply taken from within whatever 'box' (often under the passenger seat) the heater is installed in. There doesn't seem to be enough ventilation for the air to get into the heater. As you say, a very interesting topic. Here is the document if you want to have a look. Cheers www.iims.org.uk/marine-installation-safety-training-diesel-fuelled-heating/
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Obviously there are some issues that have to be addressed to consider my thoughts. One of them is the location where the unit is installed. For example right now the hot air You inject inside Your cabin come from the engine room. It´s not ideal because of posible leaks in the exhaust system of Your engine. However You have a CO2 snuffer. So that takes care of the risk. But most of all in the engine room it´s a lot better because there is more air to breathe then stuffed in some small locker inside the cabin. but this has a solution. You just have to run another duct from Your engine room to where it´s convenient. What I would do is run a "T" connector from the pipe of the air intake and route it to a different location then the duct creating kid of a harmonic air flow inside the cabin further covering some dead spots where the is low or no air circulation. I would also put kind of a closing/valve system between the "T" and Your current through hull chamber inlet and exhaust tube to prevent posible water intrusion during following seas. Hahaha Yes, there are still a view issues about the installation that have not been talked about. I got the idea when I actually saw this heater disassembled and when I understood the details how it functions. In theory there should be a dehumidifying effect. I just don´t know if it´s worth while pursuing it. I think that depends on the use of the boat but I would say for permanent liveaboard everything helps as long as there is no huge energy consumption and in this case it would be a side effect that´s for free. Cheers
Thanks for all your comments. Some of these elements haven't been finalised yet - so watch this space. I think one of the key elements is to get the air flow right. There is a series on a van build that you might be interested in. The channel is called 'Greg Virgoe'. He is a heating ventilation engineer by trade and has put a lot of thought and effort into his insulation and ventilation system - he has some very interesting ideas about where the heating duct outlets should go to ensure the best overall heat distribution - he also does the calculations. He installed a gas air heater rather than a diesel one. The interesting design feature, that would be great on a diesel heater, is that the combustion air intake and exhaust are 'one' pipe that is actually two concentric pipes, the exhaust inside the inlet. - So, it is always balanced and the intake air gets pre heated by the exhaust gas. Very clever.Anyway - as you say, 'don't know whether it is worth pursuing' - but still interesting.Cheers
Only thing i would suggest is adding the insulation to the exhaust pipe. The reason i would do that is because eventually something is going to come into contact with it. And that something may be the Skipper. Also i noticed the Relative Humidity dropped by 6%. Did it rise back up again once the unit had been off for a while?
Good point about the insulation on the exhaust pipe. I did buy some cladding to wrap around the exhaust. But I am still in two minds about it. my reason for not cladding it is to allow as much heat as possible to dissipate as the exhaust gas travels from the heater to the thru hull - I want the gas coming out of the thru hull as cool as possible. At first I thought I would clad the bit from the heater to the silencer and leave the rest free. I was hoping that the IR temperature device would give a more accurate reading - I think the exhaust is a lot hotter than the reading. I am still undecide on this one - but I absolutely agree that nothing (especially the skipper) should be allowed to get in contact with it. Unfortunately I didn't hang around long enough to re-check the Relative Humidity. I can say that the air felt 'dry and comfortable' when the heater was on - not sure if that makes sense. I would guess that the Humidity would eventually creep back up. When I was living aboard full time with shore power I has a desiccating de-humidifier (works in the cold) and that had a massive impact on the humidity and comfort levels.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 An alternative to insulation on the exhaust pipe, you could make a protective screen (perforated?) of some kind. This will still protect the skipper and keep heat inside the boat.
Maybe try some black marker on the through hull fitting to try and get the IR temperature device to give an accurate reading.A black surface may work better than the reflective surface. You may also be able to reduce the through hull fittings temperature by adding some sort of passive heat sink to the back of it. Something as simple as a large metal plate with a hole in the middle and holes to match the through hull bolt pattern. Then attach it to the back of the through hull (inside the boat) using the mounting bolts. If you were able to show a measurable difference then possibly upgrade the metal plate to a proper finned heat sink type arrangement. That way you would be keeping even more heat in the boat and less in the through hull fitting.
Great ideas thanks. I should have some matt Hammerite paint I can dab on the exhaust to get a better reading. There is a danger of this getting over-engineered. Having said that, it seems such a waste to be sending that hot gas out the back of the boat. - Maybe I could heat some water with it...
Shiny metals are reflective and will not give an accurate temperature reading with an infrared thermometer. If you want to check it with infrared, you can put something emissive such as a piece of painters tape or electrical tape, or a spot of paint.
Thanks Mike. I thought something like this might be happening. I will try again next Winter just for interest. It is much too hot to turn the heater on at the moment. I have some heat resistant matte black paint somewhere. Cheers
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 just be aware that paint will increase the radiation and heat dissipation (or absorption) of the painted surface, which may or may not be desirable depending on the situation. In other words, don't paint the air gap of your thru hull, try to keep that shiny.
Thanks for watching. I bought the unit from ebay. There are a lot of similar items, and I would guess that most come from the same factory - they don't really have a 'brand' as such. To be honest, I think it is somewhat a matter of luck as to which one you get. For example, I ordered a 2kw unit and the one I received was the slightly larger 5kw one. I will paste the link below from my original order, but I notice that it has been withdrawn. I think you just need to read every description of the ones available and then check the buyer feedback. Good Luck www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202449593659
Hi - excellent video blog on the diesel heater - I am hopefully going to be fitting one in my motorboat and the question I have is - do you have a list of the extra parts that you purchased like the better quality exhaust silencer etc. As a side note that I did notice on your installation was you didnt have any exhaust wrap on your exhaust this would keep the heat within the exhaust and away from the hull of your boat and anything that could catch fire - easily to get hold of from a motor factors or ebay and use stainless steel tie wraps or wire to keep the wrap on the exhaust pipe jon
Jon, I got all of the additional parts from ebay. I basically did a search on Webasto and Eberspacher accessories. There is no point in me giving you the actual links as I checked them recently and they have 'dissapeared' - I think it's the way that some people advertise on ebay I guess. I will be doing a final video on this install in a few weeks. I need to instal the combustion chamber and heater air inlets. I am not 100% sure what to do regarding the exhaust. One school of thought is to do as you say so that all the hot exhaust goes out the back. The other school is to keep the pipe as far away from the fiberglass as possible so that as much heat as possible gets dissipated before it exits through the hull. Have a look at the install Teal did on 'Onboard Lifestyle'. He did a bit of both. The other thing I will probably do is instal a drainage loop at the lowest point of the exhaust. Cheers Paul
Paul - Thank you for your quick reply - with reference to your exhaust possibilities you could wrap the first 90 degree bend that comes out of the heater as its that bend that takes majority of the the heat maybe put heat patches on the fibreglass hull following the same path as the exhaust pipe this way the heat is deflected away from the hull and with the exposed exhaust pipe the heat generated dissapates into the air around. Jon
Paul - On thinking about this - This would be better as you pointed out in one of your videos that the through hull fitting wasnt too hot - this is because the heat from the exhaust has dissapated further inside the hull - Makes sense - so the the heat patches are going to be more the way to go just to protect the hull - and with the heat gone earlier before the through hull fitting this will stop a lot a heat at that fitting (also peace of mind) - I would still put wrap at the first bend from the heater and maybe a patch on the hull in that area as in another video it goes beyond 150 degreers c at that point. Another thing to point out what I found yesterday it maybe worth putting between the battery and the heater a isolation switch as apparently the heater in this chaps case automatically switched on for some reason czcams.com/video/nhmn4D-v20I/video.html is it possible you could list the extra items you bought not from particular the sellers (I understand they might not be listed from them now). Jon
Paul - This is a thread that I started about installing a heater and has some useful input so far. on page 5 is a post showing a temperature cut off switch linked via a relay an attached to the body of the heater, which if the heater case gets too hot i.e catches fire it will shut the power off to the fuel pump.www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?528856-chinese-diesel-heater-installation/page5Jon
Blimey how do you put up with that rope frapping away on the hull or mast or what ever, it's annoying me listening to it second hand... oh interesting video though :-)
Fair point. I need to sort out some of the lines. I had a bit of a tangle with the lazy jacks and I think I re-tied the halliards up badly when I sorted them out. But what is even worse is that I have loose wires inside the mast (for the tricolour, wind indicator and VHF). These clank away with a really horrible high pitched frapping sound all night at anchor with the boat swaying about - and there is nothing you can do about it. - Secretly this is my top priority to fix. It will be back to the tweeting birds next time. Cheers ;)
I know. A bit optimistic. I didn't show the bits where I used the good old fashioned method of flicking my finger quickly on the surface - I really wouldn't want anyone to copy that. When it gets a bit colder I intend to finish off the air vents properly and do a long test. I want to really nail down the power and diesel consumption. I will also probably put some matte tape on various bits and try the temperatures again. Cheers
That is a very good question. Unfortunately, this isn't a very good answer. I will give a 'proper' update in the next video, or the one after. But basically I have had a few setbacks which means that things are taking a lot longer than they should. And unfortunately I have about 10 projects on the boat that are all half finished and dependent on each other. I am currently hatching a plan where I can get to work on Serenity more often and pull everything together. I am bursting to get back in the water and I hope it might be in the late Summer...but who really knows...I don't ;)
Measuring temperature accurately is surprisingly difficult, particularly when the surface temperature differs significantly from the surroundings. Measurement systems all have inherent issues, and different systematic errors. As and example, one comment mentioned thermocouples as an alternative. Thermocouples can be very good, but issues include: 1. wire purity 2. Reading instrument error (thermocouples generate a tiny signal) 3. Thermal resistance (contact) between thermocouple junction and measured surface. 4. Thermal conduction along wire, particularly if type T is used (Copper/Constantan), and heavy wire gauges. 5. What treatment if any is used on top of the thermocouple junction. Your infrared meter is probably more than good enough. You might consider sticking something on part of the shiny surface for measurement purposes to see if the readings change.
Thanks Ken. I did wonder about painting some heat resistant matt paint blobs on the exhaust pipe to minimise the reflection issue with the IR device. I have used thermocouples a lot in the past, when I worked in a lab - but never to get a 'surface' measurement. I remember that there was a lot of calibration required - and I seem to remember that the relationship between temperature and the volts reading was not a linear one through anything but a small temperature range - but it was a long time ago and I may be wrong. I also think that I might have managed to take the measurements at exactly the wrong time. I had initially set the controller thermostat for 22 C and I think I might have started taking the measurements just as 23 C was met and the unit was dropping into 'idle' mode. I remember the external exhaust temperature being much hotter during my first start up last week when it was still running at maximum. I would very much like to measure the temperature gradient along the exhaust all the way from the unit, and past the silencer to the thru hull when everything is running at full blast - Or am I going a bit over the top? Cheers - any updates on your plans?
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 You have an incredibly diverse background. Yes, the thermocouple voltage produced is non linear. Companies such as Omega produce extensive tables, however, as I recall it is necessary to balance the circuit so there is null current, and have a known reference temperature. This is far too complicated for real life, so all instruments I am familiar with a have built in calibration and read temperature directly. (Omega also provides a free catalogue and technical book for those of us that still use hardcopy.) My plans are more or less unchanged. I'm hoping there will be a window in six to ten months where I am financially able to make the commitment and still young enough to manage.
Thanks. That is a good idea. I was wondering about wrapping that double sided (silver on both sides with bubble wrap in the middle) tape around it and then putting the current insulating sleeve back on. I will most probably do this. Cheers Paul
Super videos!!! I just discovered your channel when researching diesel heaters. SUPER.
Ron, thanks. I am very happy with the little unit. Of course, it is the installation that is the major part. But it has been reliable and was very cheap - I can't ask for much more. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.
Cheers
Paul
Thank you Paul. Really very useful and lots of useful stuff in comments as well on previous vlogs in terms of doing it oneself. Best wishes
It wasn't really in my plans to install a heater. But this was actually quite a straightforward job in the end. Hopefully I haven't made too many decisions I will regret later. Cheers.
Good and interesting to see the whole install procedure from start to finish well done.
Thanks for watching. Like most jobs it is 95% thinking/planning and 5% doing. Hopefully not too many bad decisions along the way. I still need to sort out the heating air intake and combustion chamber intake. And of course a final fitting for the diesel tank. But that might have to wait a while. Cheers
Thanks for this informative video. Conclusion is thus, the quality of temp/glow/pump management. Mechanically it shows it will do.
Yes, that's pretty much it. I like to know that any 'mechanical' devices I buy have been designed to operate based on sound principles - and that is not always the case. I am happy with what I have discovered about this unit.
Very interesting (and not at all boring!). It will be interesting to know the consumption on a daily basis of usage once you'll be staying in the boat for a longer period of time, compared to weather conditions and outside temps! Thx for sharing!
Thanks. I would have preferred a colder day for the test, but it has been quite warm here recently. I was concerned that the power consumption would be around 3.3 amps all the time when the unit was on. I am much happier that it drops to 0.6 amps for quite long periods when it is in idle mode. At least I can start to make a few calculations regarding power requirements. I might have to wait until next winter to get any 'real life' measurements. Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Great! Thanks!
Thanks, great info !
Thanks for watching. I need to finally sort out the air intakes to make them watertight. Hopefully I can then do some 'real life' testing in Winter conditions and really evaluate how well it performs - and more detail on electricity and diesel usage.
Cheers
Those thermal guns are very dependent on the "emissivity" of the material. Basically the brighter the surface (like SS) the less accurate the reading. Those heaters are becoming very popular with the on-land van camper crowd. Well done!
Cheers Tom, yes I should really put some matt black paint splodges on the exhaust and re-measure it. Ah, a van heater. That gives me an idea - Maybe I should put wheels on Serenity.
A lot of people in the yard have been asking me about the heater. I think that the price coming down for these units had made them become much more viable. But, as we know, everything is at least 10 times more complex when we install it on a boat.
Nice video, I have a similar unit I'm planning to fit to a catamaran
Thanks. I'm very pleased with the heater. If you haven't seen it already, check out Onboard Lifestyle (it was a few months ago) - Teal fits two of these units in his catamaran. He is a real perfectionist.
Good luck with it.
Cheers
Paul
Thanks for the viseo
Thank you for watching it
Hooray🐬hope the sea doesn’t chuck any water in the exhaust
So do I !!There was a comment about putting some sort of valve on the thru hull. - If I could get a heatproof one that might be an option.
Very interesting little series on this heater unit. One question, what diesel consumption are you getting? Ball park figure of course as I assume it will depend on heating settings choosen and ambient temperature when run.
The honest answer at the moment is that I don't have a definitive answer. And as you say, it will depend on a lit of other factors. I have seen some estimates where people say that they use 1/4 litre per day and others that say 1/4 litre per hour. - That is quite a wide range.
My current plan is to keep the diesel for the heater in a separate 10 litre tank (the one that came with the heater is only 5 litres) so I can keep an eye on it. The tanks are see through so I can mark litre lines on the outside and keep track of consumption. - I meant to do this for the test - but forgot, although the level didn't appear to have dropped at all.
I normally keep the main tank (85 litres) filled up and carry another 20 litres spare.
Also, in the UK (I don't know where you are writing from) there is a very strange, complicated and unclear situation with regard to the tax on diesel for boats. Basically, there is a lower tax applicable for diesel if it is to be used for heating, but not for propelling the boat. Too complicated to go into.
That wasn't a very good answer was it. But I will be monitoring usage when I start cruising.
Nice - I hope that heater gives you a long service life. That's always my concern for some lower priced bits of kit - but I've had issues with more expensive devices as well - product support may be the difference, I guess. If you can get a glow plug though - everything else seems external and easily replaced.
I believe I can get a glow plug for about £10 - I should carry a spare, I guess. I don't think there will be any product support, but who knows, I might be pleasantly surprised.To be honest, I don't think there is a single item on a boat that isn't going to go wrong at some point.Cheers
Just about sailing Get a spare while you can and make sure it’s the right one and stow it with a spanner that fits.
You can be sure that when it packs up it will be at the worst possible moment ! 🤪✌️
The cheap chinese heaters tend to last just one year. Still cheaper than buying a webasto or eberspacher.
Great video. Could be on the short list for next years Oscars. I wonder how far that differs from an Eberspacher in terms of performance, amp draw etc?
That would be a very short list of films, and I am not sure what category it would be in - films to sleep through possibly.
It would be interesting to see how it differs from Eberrspacher, Webasto, Planar etc. It is also possible that it differs from other Chinese Heaters. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the well thought out way that the power up and power down worked. Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 no way dude! You get an Oscar in my book. It's December im in Seattle (same climate as the UK) and been looking at heat options for my little westerly cirrus I was hanging on every word. I am pointing in that direction at this point. Thank you for taking your time to put this out there.
@@scott.wallace8625 Cheers Scott. I am still happy with the heater. I have recently done another video where I tested out where to best put the heater air input to reduce condensation - I'm pleased with the results of that. I also looked a bit more closely at fuel and amps consumption. I also increased the insulation on the conduit between the heater and the cabin (about 5 ft in my case) - that made quite a difference.
If you haven't seen it already, check out Onboard Lifestyle's channel. They installed two of these units on their catamaran when they were based in Seattle. - Yes, it is the same climate.
Cheers
Paul
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 I will check that out. Thanks paul
Well I found it interesting but wonder what that says about me.😳 Are you only have one warm outlet in the boat? I would most definitely insulate the exhaust line. Thank you for sharing.😀⛵️
Oh dear, I am starting to learn something about what my subscribers like. I might have to do an 'epoxy drying' in slow motion video - mind you, I'd watch that.
I am still torn about whether to insulate the exhaust or not. I did buy the material to do it, but figured that I wanted to get rid of as much heat as possible before the hot gas got to the thru hull - the opposite of what I want for the heating air going to the cabin. I might change my mind on this one. And thanks for noting it - it is one of the reasons I ask people to always read the comments.
I am only having one outlet. Serenity is actually a lot smaller than she looks in the videos, especially when I use my 'cheap go-pro' camera. So not a huge amount of space to heat up. I wandered into the Vee Berth to check what it felt like - it was definitely a bit cooler, but we will have to see.
Cheers
There is no need to lag the exhaust. Bit of heat down there is a good idea. Def lag the outlets.
Yes, I eventually took the exhaust lagging off when I fitted an exhaust drain water trap (thing). And also increased the lagging on the heater outlet.
Cheers, Paul
Actually Id say it was very interesting... or at least it was to those of thus that might want to fit one ourselves... although it wasnt very exciting :-)
Thanks Ian. Hang on - have you just copied and pasted a comment from my Christmas Special?
Yes, I was well aware that it would mostly just be a camera shot of some instruments changing very slowly. I knew that the heater would kick out a lot of very warm/hot air from my very first test when I installed it. I really wanted to get an idea of the power consumption as the thermostat kicked in and out. It performed better than I expected. It seems to get up to the desired temperature very quickly (full power at 3.3 amps) and then spend ages at the tickover (0.6 amps) pushing out a small amount of warm air as the temperature drops.
I suppose I could have made it more interesting by doing a multi screen shot so you could see the diesel level - it didn't look like it moved at all. Cheers.
Hi, can you advise where you got the exhaust through hull fitting from. thanks.
Patrick, there are quite a few of these advertised on ebay. The specific one I purchased seems to have vanished. However, here is a link to something that looks the same for about the same price.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/exhaust-outlet-24mm-for-webasto-heaters-stainless-steel-polished-eberspacher-d5-/183758810317?hash=item2ac8e0eccd
I specifically wanted one that would fit a sloping transom. There are a few other designs if your transom is more vertical.
Cheers
Paul
I’ve installed two of these and I speak highly enough about them.
My installations have been in caravans and now I want to put one in my boat.
I’m concerned about the exhaust.
Can you please tell me where did you source your outlet flange?
BTW good job on these but I’ll offer one suggestion.
If buying a Chinese heater, it’s always a good idea to bench test it before the actual installation.
Brendan, good luck with the install. Finding a good location in a boat is 90% of the process. Initially I was going to tuck it away out of sight. But then decided that ease of access was key. It is actually quite easy to take it it out where I have placed it. Although I'm not as bendy as I was.
The exhaust is definitely a key consideration. I found the outlet flange on ebay. Search under Webasto, Eberspacher for exhaust fittings and some will come up. The original link for mine is long gone. Mine was made in Turkey (cheap) which is where a lot seem to come from.
I did a few update videos. One of the things I should had done straight away is to install a water trap. There should only be one 'dip' in the exhaust run and it needs a trap. Again, I bought a cheap one off ebay. Check out the first few minutes of my December 2019 video for details.
My boat is still out of the water, but I have run the heater several times and I love it.
Cheers
Paul
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114
Thanks for your prompt reply Paul. Much appreciated.
I love these machines good luck with your sailing.
Brendan.
Great video
I’m considering on buying two of those heaters for my catamaran much cheaper than paying £2000 for a pair eberspachers
Or might get just one to try it first
Thanks for the comment. I am in the middle of putting together a new video on the heater - which should be out before the end of November.
I have done a bit of theory on where to best take the heating air input from to minimise condensation. The new video will be a practical test of which works best - and also how much diesel and electricity (amps) is consumed.
So, far I am very happy with the heater.
Check out Onboard Lifestyle. They fitted two similar units in their catamaran and seem to be very happy with them.
Cheers
Paul
Good info, Thx. I was wondering, some liveaboards mentioned using those heaters to dry out the boat. Usually with the heat the boats start to sweat around the windows and bad insulated areas and produce increased humidity due to condensation which on boats is always a problem with generating mold. Maybe they used a secondary route for the air intake from inside the cabin like a closed loop ? Those heaters move a lot of volume of air and the increased air circulation should have a further positive effect compared to other heating systems. Have You noticed any of those effects ?
Cheers
I have only just installed this heater, so I am not sure yet whether or not the heater will help with condensation.
When I was living on the boat for two years in a marina/harbour with shore power I used a desiccating de-humidifier. That was 100% effective - you could even hang up wet clothes of towels and it would dry them as it literally sucks the water out of the air. Unfortunately it would need too much power for off grid use.
I am toying with the idea of being able to switch the input from getting the air from the inside or the outside. My instinct (with a bit of science) is that having a through put of circulating air taken from the outside would be better than recycling and warming the air already in the cabin.
I guess I will find out in good time. Cheers.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Yes, the power consumption is the issue with the de-humidifier. Well, actually it would not be recycling.You would only connect the air intake port for the combustion chamber to the inside of the boat. This air from the chamber gets blown outside through the exhaust afterwards. Of course the whole process might be a lot slower then with a de-humidifier. I would argue the need of connecting the air intake of the chamber to fresh air because the boat will never be air tight. Of course using fresh air for the fan has advantages. I think this is an interesting topic because of the two completely independent air intakes. The outside fan is producing heat by cooling the unit with air from where ever the unit is installed and the inside fan acts like a compressor injecting air from the intake port into the chamber. That is the one I refer to.
There is some safety guidance from the International Institute of Marine Surveying that states that you must not take the combustion air from any accommodation area. I'll link to their document below. I guess the fear is that if something blocked the exhaust outlet then there is a route for the gasses to get into the accommodation. The guidance also says that you shouldn't take the fresh air from inside an engine compartment (which is where my heater is located). But I do get the logic of your argument.
I have seen a few van installations on CZcams where the fresh air is simply taken from within whatever 'box' (often under the passenger seat) the heater is installed in. There doesn't seem to be enough ventilation for the air to get into the heater.
As you say, a very interesting topic. Here is the document if you want to have a look. Cheers
www.iims.org.uk/marine-installation-safety-training-diesel-fuelled-heating/
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Obviously there are some issues that have to be addressed to consider my thoughts. One of them is the location where the unit is installed. For example right now the hot air You inject inside Your cabin come from the engine room. It´s not ideal because of posible leaks in the exhaust system of Your engine. However You have a CO2 snuffer. So that takes care of the risk. But most of all in the engine room it´s a lot better because there is more air to breathe then stuffed in some small locker inside the cabin. but this has a solution. You just have to run another duct from Your engine room to where it´s convenient. What I would do is run a "T" connector from the pipe of the air intake and route it to a different location then the duct creating kid of a harmonic air flow inside the cabin further covering some dead spots where the is low or no air circulation. I would also put kind of a closing/valve system between the "T" and Your current through hull chamber inlet and exhaust tube to prevent posible water intrusion during following seas.
Hahaha Yes, there are still a view issues about the installation that have not been talked about. I got the idea when I actually saw this heater disassembled and when I understood the details how it functions. In theory there should be a dehumidifying effect. I just don´t know if it´s worth while pursuing it. I think that depends on the use of the boat but I would say for permanent liveaboard everything helps as long as there is no huge energy consumption and in this case it would be a side effect that´s for free.
Cheers
Thanks for all your comments. Some of these elements haven't been finalised yet - so watch this space. I think one of the key elements is to get the air flow right. There is a series on a van build that you might be interested in. The channel is called 'Greg Virgoe'. He is a heating ventilation engineer by trade and has put a lot of thought and effort into his insulation and ventilation system - he has some very interesting ideas about where the heating duct outlets should go to ensure the best overall heat distribution - he also does the calculations. He installed a gas air heater rather than a diesel one. The interesting design feature, that would be great on a diesel heater, is that the combustion air intake and exhaust are 'one' pipe that is actually two concentric pipes, the exhaust inside the inlet. - So, it is always balanced and the intake air gets pre heated by the exhaust gas. Very clever.Anyway - as you say, 'don't know whether it is worth pursuing' - but still interesting.Cheers
Only thing i would suggest is adding the insulation to the exhaust pipe.
The reason i would do that is because eventually something is going to come into contact with it. And that something may be the Skipper.
Also i noticed the Relative Humidity dropped by 6%. Did it rise back up again once the unit had been off for a while?
Good point about the insulation on the exhaust pipe. I did buy some cladding to wrap around the exhaust. But I am still in two minds about it. my reason for not cladding it is to allow as much heat as possible to dissipate as the exhaust gas travels from the heater to the thru hull - I want the gas coming out of the thru hull as cool as possible. At first I thought I would clad the bit from the heater to the silencer and leave the rest free. I was hoping that the IR temperature device would give a more accurate reading - I think the exhaust is a lot hotter than the reading. I am still undecide on this one - but I absolutely agree that nothing (especially the skipper) should be allowed to get in contact with it.
Unfortunately I didn't hang around long enough to re-check the Relative Humidity. I can say that the air felt 'dry and comfortable' when the heater was on - not sure if that makes sense. I would guess that the Humidity would eventually creep back up. When I was living aboard full time with shore power I has a desiccating de-humidifier (works in the cold) and that had a massive impact on the humidity and comfort levels.
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 An alternative to insulation on the exhaust pipe, you could make a protective screen (perforated?) of some kind. This will still protect the skipper and keep heat inside the boat.
I had something like that on an old motorbike with a high rise exhaust - still hurt if you put your leg against it ;)
Maybe try some black marker on the through hull fitting to try and get the IR temperature device to give an accurate reading.A black surface may work better than the reflective surface.
You may also be able to reduce the through hull fittings temperature by adding some sort of passive heat sink to the back of it. Something as simple as a large metal plate with a hole in the middle and holes to match the through hull bolt pattern. Then attach it to the back of the through hull (inside the boat) using the mounting bolts. If you were able to show a measurable difference then possibly upgrade the metal plate to a proper finned heat sink type arrangement. That way you would be keeping even more heat in the boat and less in the through hull fitting.
Great ideas thanks. I should have some matt Hammerite paint I can dab on the exhaust to get a better reading.
There is a danger of this getting over-engineered. Having said that, it seems such a waste to be sending that hot gas out the back of the boat. - Maybe I could heat some water with it...
Shiny metals are reflective and will not give an accurate temperature reading with an infrared thermometer. If you want to check it with infrared, you can put something emissive such as a piece of painters tape or electrical tape, or a spot of paint.
Thanks Mike. I thought something like this might be happening. I will try again next Winter just for interest. It is much too hot to turn the heater on at the moment. I have some heat resistant matte black paint somewhere. Cheers
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 just be aware that paint will increase the radiation and heat dissipation (or absorption) of the painted surface, which may or may not be desirable depending on the situation. In other words, don't paint the air gap of your thru hull, try to keep that shiny.
@@Mike_Neukam Thanks - I'll use tape when I try it. Cheers.
Can you share with us the brand and where you purchased it from? ;-) Great videos by the way...
Thanks for watching.
I bought the unit from ebay. There are a lot of similar items, and I would guess that most come from the same factory - they don't really have a 'brand' as such. To be honest, I think it is somewhat a matter of luck as to which one you get. For example, I ordered a 2kw unit and the one I received was the slightly larger 5kw one.
I will paste the link below from my original order, but I notice that it has been withdrawn. I think you just need to read every description of the ones available and then check the buyer feedback. Good Luck
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202449593659
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 Thanks very much....
Hi - excellent video blog on the diesel heater - I am hopefully going to be fitting one in my motorboat and the question I have is - do you have a list of the extra parts that you purchased like the better quality exhaust silencer etc.
As a side note that I did notice on your installation was you didnt have any exhaust wrap on your exhaust this would keep the heat within the exhaust and away from the hull of your boat and anything that could catch fire - easily to get hold of from a motor factors or ebay and use stainless steel tie wraps or wire to keep the wrap on the exhaust pipe
jon
Jon, I got all of the additional parts from ebay. I basically did a search on Webasto and Eberspacher accessories. There is no point in me giving you the actual links as I checked them recently and they have 'dissapeared' - I think it's the way that some people advertise on ebay I guess.
I will be doing a final video on this install in a few weeks. I need to instal the combustion chamber and heater air inlets. I am not 100% sure what to do regarding the exhaust. One school of thought is to do as you say so that all the hot exhaust goes out the back. The other school is to keep the pipe as far away from the fiberglass as possible so that as much heat as possible gets dissipated before it exits through the hull. Have a look at the install Teal did on 'Onboard Lifestyle'. He did a bit of both.
The other thing I will probably do is instal a drainage loop at the lowest point of the exhaust.
Cheers
Paul
Paul - Thank you for your quick reply - with reference to your exhaust possibilities you could wrap the first 90 degree bend that comes out of the heater as its that bend that takes majority of the the heat maybe put heat patches on the fibreglass hull following the same path as the exhaust pipe this way the heat is deflected away from the hull and with the exposed exhaust pipe the heat generated dissapates into the air around.
Jon
@@jonmclean8205 That is a very good idea. I might just do that. Cheers
Paul - On thinking about this - This would be better as you pointed out in one of your videos that the through hull fitting wasnt too hot - this is because the heat from the exhaust has dissapated further inside the hull - Makes sense - so the the heat patches are going to be more the way to go just to protect the hull - and with the heat gone earlier before the through hull fitting this will stop a lot a heat at that fitting (also peace of mind) - I would still put wrap at the first bend from the heater and maybe a patch on the hull in that area as in another video it goes beyond 150 degreers c at that point.
Another thing to point out what I found yesterday it maybe worth putting between the battery and the heater a isolation switch as apparently the heater in this chaps case automatically switched on for some reason czcams.com/video/nhmn4D-v20I/video.html
is it possible you could list the extra items you bought not from particular the sellers (I understand they might not be listed from them now).
Jon
Paul - This is a thread that I started about installing a heater and has some useful input so far. on page 5 is a post showing a temperature cut off switch linked via a relay an attached to the body of the heater, which if the heater case gets too hot i.e catches fire it will shut the power off to the fuel pump.www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?528856-chinese-diesel-heater-installation/page5Jon
Blimey how do you put up with that rope frapping away on the hull or mast or what ever, it's annoying me listening to it second hand... oh interesting video though :-)
Fair point. I need to sort out some of the lines. I had a bit of a tangle with the lazy jacks and I think I re-tied the halliards up badly when I sorted them out. But what is even worse is that I have loose wires inside the mast (for the tricolour, wind indicator and VHF). These clank away with a really horrible high pitched frapping sound all night at anchor with the boat swaying about - and there is nothing you can do about it. - Secretly this is my top priority to fix.
It will be back to the tweeting birds next time. Cheers ;)
some people like the sound of a slapping line(rope), although it's not good for the line ....
You'll never get accurate readings on reflective surfaces with an infrared thermometer.
I know. A bit optimistic. I didn't show the bits where I used the good old fashioned method of flicking my finger quickly on the surface - I really wouldn't want anyone to copy that.
When it gets a bit colder I intend to finish off the air vents properly and do a long test. I want to really nail down the power and diesel consumption. I will also probably put some matte tape on various bits and try the temperatures again.
Cheers
When is the next sail?
That is a very good question. Unfortunately, this isn't a very good answer.
I will give a 'proper' update in the next video, or the one after. But basically I have had a few setbacks which means that things are taking a lot longer than they should. And unfortunately I have about 10 projects on the boat that are all half finished and dependent on each other. I am currently hatching a plan where I can get to work on Serenity more often and pull everything together.
I am bursting to get back in the water and I hope it might be in the late Summer...but who really knows...I don't ;)
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 ohh I look forward to to seeing you on the water again
Measuring temperature accurately is surprisingly difficult, particularly when the surface temperature differs significantly from the surroundings. Measurement systems all have inherent issues, and different systematic errors. As and example, one comment mentioned thermocouples as an alternative. Thermocouples can be very good, but issues include:
1. wire purity
2. Reading instrument error (thermocouples generate a tiny signal)
3. Thermal resistance (contact) between thermocouple junction and measured surface.
4. Thermal conduction along wire, particularly if type T is used (Copper/Constantan), and heavy wire gauges.
5. What treatment if any is used on top of the thermocouple junction.
Your infrared meter is probably more than good enough. You might consider sticking something on part of the shiny surface for measurement purposes to see if the readings change.
Thanks Ken. I did wonder about painting some heat resistant matt paint blobs on the exhaust pipe to minimise the reflection issue with the IR device. I have used thermocouples a lot in the past, when I worked in a lab - but never to get a 'surface' measurement. I remember that there was a lot of calibration required - and I seem to remember that the relationship between temperature and the volts reading was not a linear one through anything but a small temperature range - but it was a long time ago and I may be wrong.
I also think that I might have managed to take the measurements at exactly the wrong time. I had initially set the controller thermostat for 22 C and I think I might have started taking the measurements just as 23 C was met and the unit was dropping into 'idle' mode. I remember the external exhaust temperature being much hotter during my first start up last week when it was still running at maximum.
I would very much like to measure the temperature gradient along the exhaust all the way from the unit, and past the silencer to the thru hull when everything is running at full blast - Or am I going a bit over the top?
Cheers - any updates on your plans?
@@verynearlyaboutsailing8114 You have an incredibly diverse background. Yes, the thermocouple voltage produced is non linear. Companies such as Omega produce extensive tables, however, as I recall it is necessary to balance the circuit so there is null current, and have a known reference temperature. This is far too complicated for real life, so all instruments I am familiar with a have built in calibration and read temperature directly. (Omega also provides a free catalogue and technical book for those of us that still use hardcopy.)
My plans are more or less unchanged. I'm hoping there will be a window in six to ten months where I am financially able to make the commitment and still young enough to manage.
Wrap the heat pipe coming into the cabin in tinfoil. You are losing heat through radiation probably.
Thanks. That is a good idea. I was wondering about wrapping that double sided (silver on both sides with bubble wrap in the middle) tape around it and then putting the current insulating sleeve back on.
I will most probably do this.
Cheers
Paul