Thank you so much good sir. There are plenty of videos on this exact topic and yours was the only one that mentioned the blade position on the top roller. All my 45s were 1/8th out on 2x2 tube. Was having to correct it with the angle grinder. Watched 6 minutes of your video, went and made a cut, perfection!
Other things that will make it very difficult to make a vertical cut, even with the maximum guide adjustment: 1) Worn bearings in the guides - easy and inexpensive to replace 2) Incorrectly adjusted guide bearings clearance - too loose a fit on the blade. 3) Worn blade, or blade with chipped teeth - worn blades will cut crooked no matter what you do.
Well, after 39 years of owning the thing (1983 Taiwan model), it's finally cutting square, both dimensions! Those roller guides needed fettling. The through slots for the bolts needed filing and grinding, to clean them up and enlarge a bit, as noted in this video. I also filed on the dovetail "ways" to increase the travel, so they could be fully adjusted sideways and get the blade vertical dimension square. The roller bearings were a bit crunchy, a bit of lithium grease seems to suffice for now. I've watched several tune-up videos for this saw, but this one had the information I really needed. Thanks!
I just picked up a 1983 Central Machinery bandsaw (Taiwan model) for $40. The cut is a little off center so this vid should help to get in cutting dead center.
So here we are, 7 years later and this video has been very helpful. I have a 7x12 Enco that is not cutting square. Thank you for your expert guidance on how to solve the problem.
Glad it was helpful John. It's good to hear the blade scrape the full length of the cut as you lift the arm afterwards and know it's cut perfectly straight. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the tips. I just picked up an old craftsman saw very similar, not as heavy duty as yours, but similar and I'm sure I can improve its performance. thanks again from Wisconsin USA.
I really appreciated your video, I have a new bandsaw and expected it to cut straight out of the box, well I was wrong. Your video helped me set up much better cheers.
Good tip Rob. You jogged my memory angling the guides on mine decades ago, luckily never touched them since. I never realised the tenon on the mounting arm was tapered, just thought the bearing guide mount was a sloppy fit for adjustment lol. Thanks for the info. Tony
This is perfect. Just picked up the exact bandsaw and the first thing I searched was how to square bandsaw and this is the first video that came up. Thank you for this. Now I know what I need to do.
I had this sort of problem with my band saw. Also, the pivot point on the front of the saw was oval so it wouldn't cut square or plumb. I JB Welded the pivot point and ended up shimming the blade guides where they slide in the cast housing to get the vertical cut close. I never considered that the bolt might be interfering so much with the set up, but I reckon you're on to something that most people have overlooked. That's some good detective work Rob. I should be able to get my saw to cut perfectly using your suggestions. Thanks! Simon
That's exactly what I did with an old saw of mine. I went a bit further and put two washers on each bearing at the bottom so the bearings would touch more of the blade. Works great. I feel pretty sure that this should be done right away when you buy your saw. You're going to have to do it in the future anyway.
thanks for the video excellent presentation on how, what and why. my bandsaw is a Grizzly 4006 however, I was able to use your pointers to get my saw cutting straight again. THANKS AGAIN
Thanks for the video, I really like the thick aluminum 'table' you made instead of the flimsy thin sheet metal 'sheet' they include with most small vertical/horizontal bandsaws. I often need a bigger surface so I think I will make a few different plates for mine. Never really thought of it, but that would help for a lot of cuts I need to do. Also like the square/runout test, as well.
Super useful to me. After my chop saw smoked I bought second hand 4x6. I followed your advice for achieving good cut on 3 x1/8 inch steel flat, but blade kept coming off. Followed 805roadking video for tracking but kept getting catches that knocked the blade off that i couldn’t find until I eventually realised it was bad teeth. New blade, worked then it too got bad teeth. So I bought a 10 tip Starrett, cut great and I sliced off one piece 293 thou at 1/4 inch down, 292 thou 1/4 inch from other end and I was delighted, but then more catches and I found teeth had gone off the Starrett. I had blamed other low cost blades for quality but by now realised that I was doing something daft. Research told me that to avoid teeth breakage one needs about 3 teeth engaged at all times, but with 10 tpi (2.54 mm between teeth) only 2 could ever be simultaneously engaged on 1/8 inch. I then put the flat bar down so that the blade ran across the full 3 inches and it cut fine with out catch. Probably many know what i learned painfully, but thought to mention in case it helps someone. Thanks for sharing!
That's why they use a high tooth pitch when cutting thin walled steel. The steel sets up a harmonic vibration which tears off teeth. But yes, cutting flat is way safer. The local saw doctor told me that variable pitch blades are really not necessary or a solution, just get the correct TPI for the job. He also said to run the blade as slow as possible for good tooth life. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thank you for the slow speed tip and the need to only get the right tpi, not the fancier blades is very useful. The joy of the band saw cutting compared to hand hacksaw or even angle grinding is such that I can happily wait a bit longer and keep the blades for longer.
They make life easy for sure. Swinging on a hacksaw is not something I want to do, especially as I get older. Set up correctly those little 6x4 bandsaws can cut large diameter steel round stock damn accurately. It's important not to have too much down force, as that can and will make the blade pull off line. It's a common mistake many people make trying to speed up the job. Also important is to use lube on aluminium and brass when cutting, particularly thick stock, otherwise the blade can drag/stick/jamb, forcing it off of the pulleys I just use some kerosene with a bit of oil.. Cheers Rob
Great video, thanks. I found it was like trying to stuff an octopus into a string bag. Adjust one thing and throw three others out. In the end I just focused on the vertical cut and got the horizontal close to square. Every time I fixed the horizontal square, it threw other things out, so I got it near enough then baselined the vice off that. Nicely set up now.
Top stuff young man! I have an Excel 7 x 12 and it is running out the opposite way to yours. It is entirely down to set up and now I know where I have been going a bit wrong! Many thanks, Jon.
Useful information. Happily my saw runs true but I am filing this away for future use should it be needed. Thanks for a most practical video. Good Day Mate! Doug
You can put a 6 in. pocket scale between the bearings (without a blade installed) to give you a six inches of edge instead of the 0.5 in. of the blade. Sight down the edges of the scale and square on the table like a pair of winding sticks and you can get it quite accurate with little fuss.
Good idea! Even better (if the blade's already in): hold the scale against the blade (back of the teeth). The little pressure needed to hold it will not deflect the blade.
Thanks for the details. Mine is so out of square that I am considering milling the guide arms to get the blade guides to come around to 90 degrees to the table (I already tried to get enough adjustment out of the milled "ways" on the guide lug.) Your guide arms are far more robust than the ones fitted to my early '90's ENCO model. The ones I have resemble a cast channel with only the contact edges milled where the arms fit into the ways milled into the main arm casting. Thinking about jigging up an adjustable angle plate on the mill to assure the guide is truly square with the table. Things may not be an even angle! I'm going to fit some high tensile bolts, too. Otherwise I want a new saw.
You have an excellent understanding of the adjustments and modifications necessary to make a saw cut square. I am going to watch more of your videos related to bandsaws. Thank you, Harvey
Thanks, my forty year old saw no longer cuts straight , I had worn out the guide bearings and replaced them and haven't been able to get it to cut straight since. I knew the blade was off but couldn't get it straight. I'll check those washers. Fyi, the bearings are stock items available from any bearing shop.
TRY THIS!!! One more thing to look at is the blade. I just experienced a deformed blade that caused an angled cut, no matter how much I adjusted the rollers. The blade looks dished all the way around with a shinny stripe down the middle. My guess is it got a crease rolled into it as it was passing through the bearings while it was falling off. Every once in awhile the blade will come off the rollers for some reason. Next time I’ll check the blade when this happens. Only a new blade will correct this type of problem. I hope this helpful to the people who watch this video and still can’t achieve a vertical cut.
Yeah I have this problem with my 4x6 bandsaw. I have to try changing the wimpy washers it has, and see if that does the trick for me here. I have already filed the guts out of those castings looking for some more adjustment.
The tip about hollow material is what I was missing. I couldn't tell if the front or back was misaligned and the two surfaces really helped. Moved back and forth correcting the worst side until it was perfect. I've owned this saw for years and it never cut as straight as it does now.
Hi Ian. Yes, small world ;) Mine is still cutting perfectly accurate after all this time. Once you get it set up right there's not much that will alter it. Enjoy. Cheers Rob
Hi Chris, I used mine this morning and it's a good sound to hear that blade scrape along the full face of the cut as you lift it. Means it's cutting straight. They always pull inwards towards the job when they are off line, from my observations. Cheers Rob
Hi there, I have 7 havco bandsaws I really enjoyed your CZcams clip. I thought I was losing my mind how much I had to run my blades so screw with to get a straight cut.
i need a set of blade guides like the ones on your band saw. i have the cheap ones on mine that you have to shim on one side or the other as you tighten it down. oh, this is bobby over at bison workshop just in case you didnt know it was me lol.
Thanks for the advice. It worked but mine was way out and had to use a angle grinder to realy chew off some of the upper dovetail. I use the bridgeport to bore the bolt slot larger since it was off at least 3/16 of and inch.
Thanks for video - very useful. I tried adjusting mine, even filing the "dovetails" for more adjustment range, and it still is out of square. Almost as much as it was to start, which wasn't a lot (la mm or so over 50). WTF! I'll check out the 4 x 6 Yahoo group.
An alternative? Reducing the thread diameter of the bolt in the area of the 'extra adjustment' would likely be sufficient withoutt filing away the casting. So easy to do, and that bolt should still be strong enough. If not get a better grade of bolt! RAB
Yes, so can too much downward pressure. It gives a satisfying feeling when the blade rubs the whole way up when lifting the arm after a cut;) Cheers Rob
Great info , thanks . Unfortunately for me , I bought a new Magnum 7-12 horizontal saw, and it’s out 1/8” on the swing arm when you drop it five inches in the off position . Not super noticeable, but it still sucks . I may have to live with it, as I don’t see any way to adjust it . Not wanting to drive 10 hours to exchange it either
The swing arm can be out in rare instances. This can be corrected at the point where the arm bolts (usually two) to the pivot section on the backside near the gearbox area. You can sometimes shim this to correct the problem (if the blade is pulling outwards as you lower it). Check that out. Cheers Rob
I would probably grind some thread off the bolt rather than trying to file the slot. The threads on the bolt that are inside the roller slot aren't used and will give you more room to rotate the roller adjuster.
~ e x c e l l e n t ~ very helpful video! Thank you. I just got one of these and have been looking for ways dial it in. I was trying to twist or adjust (more) from the bottom... not thinking / realizing the exact nature and profile of the adjustment jaw.
i have a new 7x12 bandsaw cutting like you described. but i noticed yesterday the blade is missing some teeth, and might be too aggressive for wht im cuting, i have 6/8tpi blade cutting 1.5 16ga square tubes. so i ordered a 14tpi blade now and hopefully it cuts square, if not, ill try your mods! .. you think my blade tpi is part of the issue?
Your saw cut fine when you got it. So don’t grind nothing just take 2 wrenches an put one on each side of bearing wheel. Justtughten the camber nut to adjust one. On each side. They move in an out I saw on a. Other channel. It works
I think your idea for squaring the blade was a good one but by tapping the roller bar you essentially locked it in one position. I drilled and tapped the frame and used 10-32 binder head screws to do the levelling. That way the bars can be set in any position.
just subscribed to your channel. I just boubht a used hor band saw . blaid keeps coming of saw. wwhat steps should I fallow to repair this. what to check.
unclefrankonap1953 There are quite a few issues that can cause this. The best thing is to join the Yahoo group 4x6 bandsaw forum, which has reference articles/everything you will ever need to know about these saws, plus members willing to help trouble shoot with you. groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4x6bandsaw/info
There should be two bolts at the rear of the blade frame directly above the pivot point. You can shim between that and the pivot bracket to correct any error. There is no adjustment at the other (cutting) end of the pivot bar. Rob
Hi I have Clarke md45 band saw it's not cutting all the way through the work piece tried adjusting the spring lever on left of machines clockwise and anticlockwise nothing happens can you you help please
My wallet has dwindled dramatically since I started following your site and don't mind a bit, just learnt so much but my skiil's don't match but thanks for teaching the us mugs
No and no. These machines are all basically the same pattern so a user manual for a Grizzly or equivalent brand should be adequate for most things. Cheers Rob
I recently purchased a similar harbor freight band saw manufactured in 1994 in excellent condition and while watching this video today, I noticed you have a small metal table attached for cutting in the vertical . Is this original equipment or did you make that part ? If you made it can you direct me to the video or provide instructions so I can make one. Great video and look forward to more...Thanks ..Ken ..Marina CA
Kenneth Bartlett I made it. The original bigger plate is tinny and a nuisance having to set it up to use. I did a video on the small plate you see: czcams.com/video/HcRlutKWcl4/video.html
thanks for the info on my saw thee blades keep cracking on the back side oposit the teeth do you have any idea what I'm doing wrong . it was a second hand saw with no instructions
Hi Scott, I've never seen that happen on a wood or metal bandsaw. I can only guess that it would be an alignment problem that is folding/flexing the blade longitudinally, and causing it to crack. Make sure that the teeth set rides clear of the pulley wheels and dose not rub on them. That's what the centre groove on the idler wheel is for, and on the drive wheel the blade teeth stand proud. Best I can suggest. Cheers Rob
Make sure the back edge of the blade is not rubbing up against the shoulder of the idler wheel. There should be about 0.5 mm clearance there. Cheers Rob
I had a problem similar to that on my ENCO generic 4 X 7 and the idling wheel had a flat spot that covered about 10 to 12 degrees of the rim. I trued it in my lathe and that corrected the problem. I'm wondering if leaving the saw blade under tension for lengthy time can cause this. I now release the tension if I plan on not using the saw for several days, etc.
Sorry for the off topic subject but I see you have some knowledge on treadmill motors/controllers and my son is having a problem with a treadmill I shipped to him. When I had it I realized it had to be on a circuit that was dedicated otherwise it would start run a few seconds then shut down. I shipped it to him and it works just fine from time to time but there are times when it runs for a few seconds then shuts off, it is not on a dedicated circuit, and he is not a DIY guy like his dad. When we visit this winter I'll put a line in for him and I'm thinking that would solve the problem. On one of your videos you were discussing treadmill controllers and the trim pots thereon, would I be correct in thinking that the problem might be corrected by adjustment of the trim pots? Thanks HH. Hager Hay
The controllers in the treadmills don't have much in the way of trim pots. They work within set parameters, so I can't see that as a solution. Cutting out sounds more like a bad connection or overheating. I know this sounds basic, but get him to remove and clean the AC and DC glass fuses if possible. Sometimes after moving the machine they don't make contact properly. Overall treadmill design and circuit boards are a nightmare, and that's why people throw them out junk day - it costs a fortune to fix them, if you can even find someone able to do it. Sorry I can't help more. Rob
What is a good way to adjust guides to twist the blade the same bottom top. So that the blade is perpendicular when cutting downwards without any twist due to variation between top and bottom. Cheers
@@Xynudu I realise that didn’t make as much sense as I wanted it to. I’m trying to adjust the blade so it’s not canted. I start at the top and it’s really hard trying to twist it while maintaining the right distance between the back of the blade and the rear bearing. After I do that I try adjusting the bottom guide the same way but it seems to go out of whack. I’m not sure if the blade is slightly twisted as I can’t adjust them at the same time.
Hi. What can i do if problem is in rear wheel? It is fixed in motor shaft and doesn't have adjustment except move along shaft which doesn't solve my problem either. Fabrication misalignment? The blade is coming out of rear wheel! Thanks
Hi Ruan. I presume you mean the blade is coming off of the driven wheel ? The blade normally doesn't track as far on that pulley as the adjustable pulley. The blade should track right up to the raised edge on the idler pulley. Make sure the roller blade guides are adjusted to the correct depth first. Also make sure there is not excess slop/wear in the idler pulley bush. Good luck. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi. I was trying to make tracking adjustment without the bearings. I mean, only using the blade and the two wheels I realized that to make the correct tracking adjustment you must have all the components including the bearings because the twist of the blade itself put it correctly tracking on the wheels. Made lots of tests because manual was poor in this information. I am planning to make some upgrades including coolant fluid. Maybe I'm going to build the tray to collect the fluid using fiberglass. Thanks
All are out of square to some degree. You could try to re-machine it, which seldom works well. The bow being thin cast iron has too much flex, any sideways pressure will shift blade path. Try shimming appropriately between your cutting material and the table of the vise where work rest. Use a small thin shim and move forward or backward away from blade to see the effect for a certain thickness of shim and distance away from blade. But constantly using shim can be tiresome and inexact. If you arrive at correct shim thickness and distance from blade, perhaps calculate the degree angle formed by that thickness and have a machine shop to make a whole new plate for your table using your degree calculation per your blade distance away. The plate can be bolted in place with a few jaw mods, etc. Also, if the bow rear pivot pin is worn can cause out of square. Place a finger between bolt and its boss to feel any movement when pressure is applied to bow sideways and especially vertically. Can visually see the movement at that gap if excessively worn or out of spec. Maybe replace that pin with one that tightly fits into the bosses at each end and re-evaluate the squareness and bow sideways flex/movement, etc. The pivot pin may be more worn on end closest to blade. Any out-of-squareness in other direction can easily be adjusted by repositioning the fixed jaw, and possibly pinning to maintain or to easily come back to the position.
Hahahaha spent a whole da farting around with the same type of saw. Feed was broken fabbed up a new feed. Tracking was off and set screw for adjustment.stripped out drilled and tapped 5/16" threads replaced with a bolt. Installed new blade however it's a bit metal blade went back to one of the original blades because blade.kept popping off. Finally got it to cut reliably but every cut at the bottom I was 1/16" off. Noticed the same.thing you're talking about its going to get the die grinder tomorrow.
Hi i have the same band saw Rung Fu RF 115 that i purchased in 1985/6 i have added coolant ( using car coolant) for square solid metal loved your videos i have the manual one is only 2 pages long the other is 15 pages long you can find on the internet or i have a copy in pdf thanks for your video
Hi Anthony, glad to hear you liked it. My old Rong Fu gets lots of use, including this morning. I have a 1 HP motor on it. Couldn't live without it now. Great machine the others try to copy. Cheers Rob
My swing arm is not coming up parallel to the square on the vice. I tried different squares and all the same thing. Do u know how to adjust the swing arm?
There is a place where the swing arm bolts onto the rear pivot point with two bolts. Try shimming/grinding that. It's the only adjustment point for this issue. The only other method is to use eccentrics on a replacement pivot pin. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu thank you for your reply I bought the exact same one heavy as hell looks old but works like a dream I sold my abrasive and bought this I'm hoping I made the right choice so far it is great
I must be missing something. If the clearance between the blade and square used for checking vertical travel does not remain constant when the arm is raised how does adjusting the blade to be square with the table solve this? It would seem to be in the overall pivot system. Which I believe is what I am dealing with.
Obviously it doesn't. If the pivot pin is out of alignment with the cutting plate you have to correct the pivot point error at one end. Some owners supposedly use an eccentric ended pivot pin to lift or lower the arm end end that needs correcting. I've never done it, but expect this will introduce a variable error of it's own. The only sure way to fix it is redo the bad base pivot hole or use an offset bush. Either way requires major redrilling of the base pivot lug.
Great video, My problem is the pivot point like you showed in the first steep, when i place the square on the bed and lift the blade up there a run out of about 2mm in 6 inch."i did check it with other square lol' thinking what i will do is take the shaft out turn it down on one end a couple mm and then make a off set sleeve to fit the shaft and use it to adjust the pivot point. what do you recon?
What brand of saw is it? An off set sleeve would work, but remember it would only need to be very minor off set as the length of the cutting arm will magnify any correction at the bush. Which way is it running out? You can shim between the two top arm mounting bolts near the motor if that can correct it. I suppose it's going the other way ? Rob
I just had a look at that two bolt mount where the spring arm joins the cutting arm. Theoretically if the blade is swinging in, you should be able to grind a bit off of the top of the spring pivot arm where it bolts up and correct the run out there. If it's swinging the other way, add a shim. Rob
xynudu . Thats not a bad idea Rob, Thanks for your help. i will do it this weekend and let you know how i went. its been on my to do list for that long. now i got a plan to get it done. Thanks again :)
I have problem on my saw. My swing arm is moving to right so the pivot point is off. Is there solution for that problem. I really dont know what to do with it
The only simple adjustment for that is the rear pivot point where the arm is bolted on. You can shim that or grind it back. Try shimming it first to see what effect it has. The alternative is to machine up an offset pivot pin. Cheers Rob
Six years later and this video is still helping people! If I ever make it down to Oz I owe you a beer.
Yeepers, great to have YT creators to help out,,Cheers from TX.
lol nine years later, in this video still helping 😂
Thank you so much good sir. There are plenty of videos on this exact topic and yours was the only one that mentioned the blade position on the top roller. All my 45s were 1/8th out on 2x2 tube. Was having to correct it with the angle grinder. Watched 6 minutes of your video, went and made a cut, perfection!
You are very welcome. Cheers Rob
Other things that will make it very difficult to make a vertical cut, even with the maximum guide adjustment:
1) Worn bearings in the guides - easy and inexpensive to replace
2) Incorrectly adjusted guide bearings clearance - too loose a fit on the blade.
3) Worn blade, or blade with chipped teeth - worn blades will cut crooked no matter what you do.
Thank you! I was getting really frustrated with my saw but your tips made adjusting it a piece of cake!
Well, after 39 years of owning the thing (1983 Taiwan model), it's finally cutting square, both dimensions! Those roller guides needed fettling. The through slots for the bolts needed filing and grinding, to clean them up and enlarge a bit, as noted in this video. I also filed on the dovetail "ways" to increase the travel, so they could be fully adjusted sideways and get the blade vertical dimension square. The roller bearings were a bit crunchy, a bit of lithium grease seems to suffice for now. I've watched several tune-up videos for this saw, but this one had the information I really needed. Thanks!
Glad it helped. Some thicker washers will also allow things to center correctly. Cheers Rob
I just picked up a 1983 Central Machinery bandsaw (Taiwan model) for $40. The cut is a little off center so this vid should help to get in cutting dead center.
So here we are, 7 years later and this video has been very helpful. I have a 7x12 Enco that is not cutting square. Thank you for your expert guidance on how to solve the problem.
Glad it was helpful John. It's good to hear the blade scrape the full length of the cut as you lift the arm afterwards and know it's cut perfectly straight. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the tips. I just picked up an old craftsman saw very similar, not as heavy duty as yours, but similar and I'm sure I can improve its performance.
thanks again from Wisconsin USA.
I really appreciated your video, I have a new bandsaw and expected it to cut straight out of the box, well I was wrong. Your video helped me set up much better cheers.
Good tip Rob. You jogged my memory angling the guides on mine decades ago, luckily never touched them since. I never realised the
tenon on the mounting arm was tapered, just thought the bearing guide mount was a sloppy fit for adjustment lol. Thanks for the info. Tony
Your advice worked, didn't have to file it as there was enough adjustment, certainly did the trick because it was out by a country mile, cheers
10 minutes effort after seeing this video got my saw cutting square.
Cheers mate.
Rob,
Thanks for the advice. I'll keep that in mind in case I ever get a bandsaw.
Regards,
Dave
This is perfect. Just picked up the exact bandsaw and the first thing I searched was how to square bandsaw and this is the first video that came up. Thank you for this. Now I know what I need to do.
Glad I could help!
I had this sort of problem with my band saw. Also, the pivot point on the front of the saw was oval so it wouldn't cut square or plumb. I JB Welded the pivot point and ended up shimming the blade guides where they slide in the cast housing to get the vertical cut close. I never considered that the bolt might be interfering so much with the set up, but I reckon you're on to something that most people have overlooked. That's some good detective work Rob. I should be able to get my saw to cut perfectly using your suggestions. Thanks!
Simon
Rob, thanks for your videos. I recently modified my bandsaw with one of the mods you did; the adjustable screw to keep the jaws parallel. Most useful.
Thanks for the feedback John. Yes, that screw is damn handy. I use it very often. Cheers Rob
That's exactly what I did with an old saw of mine. I went a bit further and put two washers on each bearing at the bottom so the bearings would touch more of the blade. Works great. I feel pretty sure that this should be done right away when you buy your saw. You're going to have to do it in the future anyway.
thanks for the video excellent presentation on how, what and why. my bandsaw is a Grizzly 4006 however, I was able to use your pointers to get my saw cutting straight again. THANKS AGAIN
Thanks for the video, I really like the thick aluminum 'table' you made instead of the flimsy thin sheet metal 'sheet' they include with most small vertical/horizontal bandsaws. I often need a bigger surface so I think I will make a few different plates for mine. Never really thought of it, but that would help for a lot of cuts I need to do. Also like the square/runout test, as well.
Glad you like it! Cheers Rob
Thanks for the tip. I have this problem with my saw. First chance I get I'm going to try this. Thanks!
Super useful to me. After my chop saw smoked I bought second hand 4x6. I followed your advice for achieving good cut on 3 x1/8 inch steel flat, but blade kept coming off. Followed 805roadking video for tracking but kept getting catches that knocked the blade off that i couldn’t find until I eventually realised it was bad teeth. New blade, worked then it too got bad teeth. So I bought a 10 tip Starrett, cut great and I sliced off one piece 293 thou at 1/4 inch down, 292 thou 1/4 inch from other end and I was delighted, but then more catches and I found teeth had gone off the Starrett. I had blamed other low cost blades for quality but by now realised that I was doing something daft. Research told me that to avoid teeth breakage one needs about 3 teeth engaged at all times, but with 10 tpi (2.54 mm between teeth) only 2 could ever be simultaneously engaged on 1/8 inch. I then put the flat bar down so that the blade ran across the full 3 inches and it cut fine with out catch. Probably many know what i learned painfully, but thought to mention in case it helps someone. Thanks for sharing!
That's why they use a high tooth pitch when cutting thin walled steel.
The steel sets up a harmonic vibration which tears off teeth. But yes, cutting flat is way safer.
The local saw doctor told me that variable pitch blades are really not necessary or a solution, just get the correct TPI for the job. He also said to run the blade as slow as possible for good tooth life.
Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thank you for the slow speed tip and the need to only get the right tpi, not the fancier blades is very useful. The joy of the band saw cutting compared to hand hacksaw or even angle grinding is such that I can happily wait a bit longer and keep the blades for longer.
They make life easy for sure. Swinging on a hacksaw is not something I want to do, especially as I get older.
Set up correctly those little 6x4 bandsaws can cut large diameter steel round stock damn accurately.
It's important not to have too much down force, as that can and will make the blade pull off line. It's a common mistake many people make trying to speed up the job.
Also important is to use lube on aluminium and brass when cutting, particularly thick stock, otherwise the blade can drag/stick/jamb, forcing it off of the pulleys
I just use some kerosene with a bit of oil..
Cheers Rob
Excellent, solved my problem in 2 minutes. Thank you
Great video, thanks. I found it was like trying to stuff an octopus into a string bag. Adjust one thing and throw three others out. In the end I just focused on the vertical cut and got the horizontal close to square. Every time I fixed the horizontal square, it threw other things out, so I got it near enough then baselined the vice off that. Nicely set up now.
Top stuff young man! I have an Excel 7 x 12 and it is running out the opposite way to yours. It is entirely down to set up and now I know where I have been going a bit wrong! Many thanks, Jon.
You're welcome. Cheers Rob
Thanks, you just showed me what I have been doing wrong... Got it now!
Useful information. Happily my saw runs true but I am filing this away for future use should it be needed. Thanks for a most practical video. Good Day Mate! Doug
It worked for me thanks. Great video.
Awesome tip Rob! Thanks
You can put a 6 in. pocket scale between the bearings (without a blade installed) to give you a six inches of edge instead of the 0.5 in. of the blade. Sight down the edges of the scale and square on the table like a pair of winding sticks and you can get it quite accurate with little fuss.
Good idea. Would certainly make it way easier to align. Rob
Good idea! Even better (if the blade's already in): hold the scale against the blade (back of the teeth). The little pressure needed to hold it will not deflect the blade.
Thank you, this was a huge help, filing the guides allowed me to get the blade square
Thanks for the feedback. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the details. Mine is so out of square that I am considering milling the guide arms to get the blade guides to come around to 90 degrees to the table (I already tried to get enough adjustment out of the milled "ways" on the guide lug.) Your guide arms are far more robust than the ones fitted to my early '90's ENCO model. The ones I have resemble a cast channel with only the contact edges milled where the arms fit into the ways milled into the main arm casting. Thinking about jigging up an adjustable angle plate on the mill to assure the guide is truly square with the table. Things may not be an even angle! I'm going to fit some high tensile bolts, too. Otherwise I want a new saw.
Thank you so much for the thorough explanation on how to set it up.
You're very welcome!
I find myself here as my bandsaw has just started to do this. Very helpful/useful. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching. Glad to help out. Cheers Rob
You have an excellent understanding of the adjustments and modifications necessary to make a saw cut square. I am going to watch more of your videos related to bandsaws. Thank you, Harvey
Thanks, my forty year old saw no longer cuts straight , I had worn out the guide bearings and replaced them and haven't been able to get it to cut straight since. I knew the blade was off but couldn't get it straight. I'll check those washers. Fyi, the bearings are stock items available from any bearing shop.
TRY THIS!!!
One more thing to look at is the blade. I just experienced a deformed blade that caused an angled cut, no matter how much I adjusted the rollers. The blade looks dished all the way around with a shinny stripe down the middle. My guess is it got a crease rolled into it as it was passing through the bearings while it was falling off. Every once in awhile the blade will come off the rollers for some reason. Next time I’ll check the blade when this happens. Only a new blade will correct this type of problem.
I hope this helpful to the people who watch this video and still can’t achieve a vertical cut.
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge
My pleasure!
great information, cheers from the US in florida, Paul
Yeah I have this problem with my 4x6 bandsaw. I have to try changing the wimpy washers it has, and see if that does the trick for me here. I have already filed the guts out of those castings looking for some more adjustment.
The tip about hollow material is what I was missing. I couldn't tell if the front or back was misaligned and the two surfaces really helped. Moved back and forth correcting the worst side until it was perfect. I've owned this saw for years and it never cut as straight as it does now.
Good to hear Dillon. Cheers Rob
Nice catch and good eye. Thank you.
Havin just acquired a 4x6 and trawling YT for Tips n mods, and look who I come across. Nice one Rob.
Hi Ian. Yes, small world ;) Mine is still cutting perfectly accurate after all this time. Once you get it set up right there's not much that will alter it. Enjoy. Cheers Rob
Also keep the adjustable bar as close without hitting the job as possible this leaves much less room for the blade to twist.
Thanks. Good fix for my Harbor Freight saw!
Awesome video - thanks for posting!
I hope it helps. Mine still cuts dead square. Cheers Rob
Great video, very informative, have a heavy duty bandsaw at work that is ancient and in dire need of maintenance.
Hi Chris, I used mine this morning and it's a good sound to hear that blade scrape along the full face of the cut as you lift it. Means it's cutting straight. They always pull inwards towards the job when they are off line, from my observations. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks mate. I'll bear that in mind when i next use it. Some adjustment work is definitely needed. Cheers.
Hi there, I have 7 havco bandsaws I really enjoyed your CZcams clip. I thought I was losing my mind how much I had to run my blades so screw with to get a straight cut.
Hi Mart. Pretty simple stuff, but yes good to save money and make it work. Cheers Rob
super helpful mate! big thanks
i need a set of blade guides like the ones on your band saw. i have the cheap ones on mine that you have to shim on one side or the other as you tighten it down. oh, this is bobby over at bison workshop just in case you didnt know it was me lol.
Thanks for the advice. It worked but mine was way out and had to use a angle grinder to realy chew off some of the upper dovetail. I use the bridgeport to bore the bolt slot larger since it was off at least 3/16 of and inch.
Glad it helped. Cheers Rob
Thanks for video - very useful.
I tried adjusting mine, even filing the "dovetails" for more adjustment range, and it still is out of square. Almost as much as it was to start, which wasn't a lot (la mm or so over 50). WTF!
I'll check out the 4 x 6 Yahoo group.
Very much appreciate Robi. Thank you.
My pleasure!
Great info here,,thx, I just picked up and older Dayton and this I need to check out,,Bear in TX
A+ instructions. This got my cheap harbor freight band saw cutting true enough for the girls that I run with.
Excellent video thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it
An alternative? Reducing the thread diameter of the bolt in the area of the 'extra adjustment' would likely be sufficient withoutt filing away the casting. So easy to do, and that bolt should still be strong enough. If not get a better grade of bolt!
RAB
I need to know how to repair the control cylinder on the older craftsman band saw. This is what controls the down pressure. Thanks
You sir are a goodman!!
Thank you !
That's is the solution! thanks! Your saw looks "dry".. do you use any coolant for the blade? thanks
Most of these little saws are designed to run dry, If you need oil or coolant you have to apply it by hand and there is no chip tray to catch it!
thanks so much,its helpful
Make sure the blade is sharp first. A dull blade can pull to one side or the other.
Yes, so can too much downward pressure.
It gives a satisfying feeling when the blade rubs the whole way up when lifting the arm after a cut;)
Cheers Rob
Great info , thanks . Unfortunately for me , I bought a new Magnum 7-12 horizontal saw, and it’s out 1/8” on the swing arm when you drop it five inches in the off position . Not super noticeable, but it still sucks . I may have to live with it, as I don’t see any way to adjust it . Not wanting to drive 10 hours to exchange it either
The swing arm can be out in rare instances. This can be corrected at the point where the arm bolts (usually two) to the pivot section on the backside near the gearbox area. You can sometimes shim this to correct the problem (if the blade is pulling outwards as you lower it).
Check that out.
Cheers Rob
Great tips
Thanks mate will check on that
I would probably grind some thread off the bolt rather than trying to file the slot. The threads on the bolt that are inside the roller slot aren't used and will give you more room to rotate the roller adjuster.
~ e x c e l l e n t ~ very helpful video! Thank you. I just got one of these and have been looking for ways dial it in.
I was trying to twist or adjust (more) from the bottom... not thinking / realizing the exact nature
and profile of the adjustment jaw.
Glad I could help!
what if the vertical swing arm is not 90 degrees when you check with a builder's square?
There should be two bolts holding the rear of the swing arm to a pivot bracket. Add shims or grind back to adjust.
I thank you for your video got my band saw to 0.5 mm. out i am happy but i am going for 0.0mm. out
Thanks for this tip. How much does the guides and blade tension play into this problem?
100%
best video I have seen on this so far. Keep up the good work.
i have a new 7x12 bandsaw cutting like you described. but i noticed yesterday the blade is missing some teeth, and might be too aggressive for wht im cuting, i have 6/8tpi blade cutting 1.5 16ga square tubes. so i ordered a 14tpi blade now and hopefully it cuts square, if not, ill try your mods! .. you think my blade tpi is part of the issue?
It's possible. I have never used that combo as it is clearly too aggressive for metal. Cheers Rob
Thank You!
Your saw cut fine when you got it. So don’t grind nothing just take 2 wrenches an put one on each side of bearing wheel. Justtughten the camber nut to adjust one. On each side. They move in an out I saw on a. Other channel. It works
Gone to try it. Stand buy. Detroit Michigan
I think your idea for squaring the blade was a good one but by tapping the roller bar you essentially locked it in one position. I drilled and tapped the frame and used 10-32 binder head screws to do the levelling. That way the bars can be set in any position.
I don't understand the comment. What do you mean by "tapping" ?
I don't understand what he did either, but tapping means he drilled in threaded a hole
just subscribed to your channel. I just boubht a used hor band saw . blaid keeps coming of saw. wwhat steps should I fallow to repair this. what to check.
unclefrankonap1953 There are quite a few issues that can cause this. The best thing is to join the Yahoo group 4x6 bandsaw forum, which has reference articles/everything you will ever need to know about these saws, plus members willing to help trouble shoot with you. groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4x6bandsaw/info
Ok so if I lift the blade and the blade ain't lifting perfectly square how do I fix this?
There should be two bolts at the rear of the blade frame directly above the pivot point. You can shim between that and the pivot bracket to correct any error. There is no adjustment at the other (cutting) end of the pivot bar.
Rob
Hi I have Clarke md45 band saw it's not cutting all the way through the work piece tried adjusting the spring lever on left of machines clockwise and anticlockwise nothing happens can you you help please
What is happening to prevent it cutting right through ? Is the blade coming off, or the depth of cut not enough ?
More information required.
Hi Mr.
What causes the bandsaw blade(horizontal) to cut the metal inclined .
My Regards
Incorrect alignment or too much downward pressure.
My wallet has dwindled dramatically since I started following your site and don't mind a bit, just learnt so much but my skiil's don't match but thanks for teaching the us mugs
Basically the main reason I do this is to pass on some knowledge that may be useful one day :)
Cheers Rob
Hello 👋 is that an ENCO model 137 - 3150 if it is do you have the owners manual?
No and no. These machines are all basically the same pattern so a user manual for a Grizzly or equivalent brand should be adequate for most things. Cheers Rob
Thank you.
I recently purchased a similar harbor freight band saw manufactured in 1994 in excellent condition and while watching this video today, I noticed you have a small metal table attached for cutting in the vertical . Is this original equipment or did you make that part ? If you made it can you direct me to the video or provide instructions so I can make one. Great video and look forward to more...Thanks ..Ken ..Marina CA
Kenneth Bartlett I made it. The original bigger plate is tinny and a nuisance having to set it up to use. I did a video on the small plate you see: czcams.com/video/HcRlutKWcl4/video.html
thanks for the info
on my saw thee blades keep cracking on the back side oposit the teeth do you have any idea what I'm doing wrong .
it was a second hand saw with no instructions
Hi Scott,
I've never seen that happen on a wood or metal bandsaw.
I can only guess that it would be an alignment problem that is folding/flexing the blade longitudinally, and causing it to crack.
Make sure that the teeth set rides clear of the pulley wheels and dose not rub on them.
That's what the centre groove on the idler wheel is for, and on the drive wheel the blade teeth stand proud.
Best I can suggest.
Cheers Rob
iv tried alignment it drives me mad my blade snap before the teeth even wear
about as long as it takes to break a blade in
Make sure the back edge of the blade is not rubbing up against the shoulder of the idler wheel.
There should be about 0.5 mm clearance there.
Cheers Rob
I had a problem similar to that on my ENCO generic 4 X 7 and the idling wheel had a flat spot that covered about 10 to 12 degrees of the rim. I trued it in my lathe and that corrected the problem. I'm wondering if leaving the saw blade under tension for lengthy time can cause this. I now release the tension if I plan on not using the saw for several days, etc.
Sorry for the off topic subject but I see you have some knowledge on treadmill motors/controllers and my son is having a problem with a treadmill I shipped to him.
When I had it I realized it had to be on a circuit that was dedicated otherwise it would start run a few seconds then shut down.
I shipped it to him and it works just fine from time to time but there are times when it runs for a few seconds then shuts off, it is not on a dedicated circuit, and he is not a DIY guy like his dad. When we visit this winter I'll put a line in for him and I'm thinking that would solve the problem.
On one of your videos you were discussing treadmill controllers and the trim pots thereon, would I be correct in thinking that the problem might be corrected by adjustment of the trim pots?
Thanks
HH. Hager Hay
The controllers in the treadmills don't have much in the way of trim pots. They work within set parameters, so I can't see that as a solution. Cutting out sounds more like a bad connection or overheating. I know this sounds basic, but get him to remove and clean the AC and DC glass fuses if possible. Sometimes after moving the machine they don't make contact properly. Overall treadmill design and circuit boards are a nightmare, and that's why people throw them out junk day - it costs a fortune to fix them, if you can even find someone able to do it. Sorry I can't help more. Rob
Hager you might want to check the wires connected to the stop switch as to whether it has shaken loose due to vibrations during your transportation.
What is a good way to adjust guides to twist the blade the same bottom top. So that the blade is perpendicular when cutting downwards without any twist due to variation between top and bottom. Cheers
Put a square on the bed alongside the blade at the cutting position and adjust the guides until parallel.
@@Xynudu I realise that didn’t make as much sense as I wanted it to.
I’m trying to adjust the blade so it’s not canted. I start at the top and it’s really hard trying to twist it while maintaining the right distance between the back of the blade and the rear bearing. After I do that I try adjusting the bottom guide the same way but it seems to go out of whack. I’m not sure if the blade is slightly twisted as I can’t adjust them at the same time.
You use the three guide bearings to twist the blade when you cant their mount.
Thank you
Brilliant
Cool thanks a lot 😀😀
Help,,,,,, what about the bandsaw blade not tracking? I am throwing blades, and the blade is eating thru the protective shroud::::::
Follow the user instructions so that the back of the blade is about 1 mm from the shoulder on the idler pulley.
Hi. What can i do if problem is in rear wheel? It is fixed in motor shaft and doesn't have adjustment except move along shaft which doesn't solve my problem either. Fabrication misalignment? The blade is coming out of rear wheel! Thanks
Hi Ruan. I presume you mean the blade is coming off of the driven wheel ? The blade normally doesn't track as far on that pulley as the adjustable pulley. The blade should track right up to the raised edge on the idler pulley. Make sure the roller blade guides are adjusted to the correct depth first. Also make sure there is not excess slop/wear in the idler pulley bush. Good luck. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi. I was trying to make tracking adjustment without the bearings. I mean, only using the blade and the two wheels
I realized that to make the correct tracking adjustment you must have all the components including the bearings because the twist of the blade itself put it correctly tracking on the wheels. Made lots of tests because manual was poor in this information. I am planning to make some upgrades including coolant fluid. Maybe I'm going to build the tray to collect the fluid using fiberglass. Thanks
My swing arm is not square. Any suggestions?
All are out of square to some degree. You could try to re-machine it, which seldom works well. The bow being thin cast iron has too much flex, any sideways pressure will shift blade path. Try shimming appropriately between your cutting material and the table of the vise where work rest. Use a small thin shim and move forward or backward away from blade to see the effect for a certain thickness of shim and distance away from blade. But constantly using shim can be tiresome and inexact. If you arrive at correct shim thickness and distance from blade, perhaps calculate the degree angle formed by that thickness and have a machine shop to make a whole new plate for your table using your degree calculation per your blade distance away. The plate can be bolted in place with a few jaw mods, etc. Also, if the bow rear pivot pin is worn can cause out of square. Place a finger between bolt and its boss to feel any movement when pressure is applied to bow sideways and especially vertically. Can visually see the movement at that gap if excessively worn or out of spec. Maybe replace that pin with one that tightly fits into the bosses at each end and re-evaluate the squareness and bow sideways flex/movement, etc. The pivot pin may be more worn on end closest to blade. Any out-of-squareness in other direction can easily be adjusted by repositioning the fixed jaw, and possibly pinning to maintain or to easily come back to the position.
The one I use in school has no twist adjustment, just some carbon fiber guides that's very expensive!
Hahahaha spent a whole da farting around with the same type of saw. Feed was broken fabbed up a new feed. Tracking was off and set screw for adjustment.stripped out drilled and tapped 5/16" threads replaced with a bolt. Installed new blade however it's a bit metal blade went back to one of the original blades because blade.kept popping off. Finally got it to cut reliably but every cut at the bottom I was 1/16" off. Noticed the same.thing you're talking about its going to get the die grinder tomorrow.
Hi i have the same band saw Rung Fu RF 115 that i purchased in 1985/6 i have added coolant ( using car coolant) for square solid metal loved your videos i have the manual one is only 2 pages long the other is 15 pages long you can find on the internet or i have a copy in pdf thanks for your video
Hi Anthony, glad to hear you liked it. My old Rong Fu gets lots of use, including this morning. I have a 1 HP motor on it. Couldn't live without it now. Great machine the others try to copy. Cheers Rob
My swing arm is not coming up parallel to the square on the vice. I tried different squares and all the same thing. Do u know how to adjust the swing arm?
There is a place where the swing arm bolts onto the rear pivot point with two bolts. Try shimming/grinding that. It's the only adjustment point for this issue. The only other method is to use eccentrics on a replacement pivot pin. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu thanks Rob! I'll give that a shim, I mean try. 👍👍👍
Hi what brand is your band saw n what specs I'm about to buy exact same one second hand please reply
Rong Fu from Taiwan - mid 1970's. All the current crop are copies of this design. Some have a bit heavier casting than others. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu thank you for your reply I bought the exact same one heavy as hell looks old but works like a dream I sold my abrasive and bought this I'm hoping I made the right choice so far it is great
ive tried this method but it still cuts at an angle ive changed all the bearing too still no luck
Too much downward arm pressure will also make the blade cut off vertical. Check that.
I must be missing something. If the clearance between the blade and square used for checking vertical travel does not remain constant when the arm is raised how does adjusting the blade to be square with the table solve this? It would seem to be in the overall pivot system. Which I believe is what I am dealing with.
You just answered your own question. The blade travel is the indicator you need to observe and use as reference when attempting to rectify the issue.
@@Xynudu I understand that. How does adjusting the squareness of the blade to bed at rest position correct the arm pivot being out of alignment?
Obviously it doesn't. If the pivot pin is out of alignment with the cutting plate you have to correct the pivot point error at one end. Some owners supposedly use an eccentric ended pivot pin to lift or lower the arm end end that needs correcting. I've never done it, but expect this will introduce a variable error of it's own. The only sure way to fix it is redo the bad base pivot hole or use an offset bush. Either way requires major redrilling of the base pivot lug.
Great video, My problem is the pivot point like you showed in the first steep, when i place the square on the bed and lift the blade up there a run out of about 2mm in 6 inch."i did check it with other square lol' thinking what i will do is take the shaft out turn it down on one end a couple mm and then make a off set sleeve to fit the shaft and use it to adjust the pivot point. what do you recon?
What brand of saw is it? An off set sleeve would work, but remember it would only need to be very minor off set as the length of the cutting arm will magnify any correction at the bush. Which way is it running out? You can shim between the two top arm mounting bolts near the motor if that can correct it. I suppose it's going the other way ? Rob
I see there is a discussion on this very point currently in Yahoo 4x6 bandsaw group. Might be worth looking at. Rob
I just had a look at that two bolt mount where the spring arm joins the cutting arm. Theoretically if the blade is swinging in, you should be able to grind a bit off of the top of the spring pivot arm where it bolts up and correct the run out there. If it's swinging the other way, add a shim. Rob
xynudu . Hi Rob the saw a Hafco BS-5 "from Hare&forbs" the blade is towing in as i lift.
xynudu . Thats not a bad idea Rob, Thanks for your help. i will do it this weekend and let you know how i went. its been on my to do list for that long. now i got a plan to get it done. Thanks again :)
I have problem on my saw. My swing arm is moving to right so the pivot point is off. Is there solution for that problem. I really dont know what to do with it
Is that measured using a set square only ?
@@Xynudu I used few different square and I get same resolut.
The only simple adjustment for that is the rear pivot point where the arm is bolted on. You can shim that or grind it back. Try shimming it first to see what effect it has. The alternative is to machine up an offset pivot pin. Cheers Rob