Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Our first Lacerda - Dipping our toes into heavy gaming
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 08. 2024
- That's right we're heavy gamers now! Get Rekt! We've always loved medium to heavy weight board games, but recently we have wanted to get a little heavier. And who's the king of thematic heavy euros, well Vital Lacerda of course! Which of his games should we play next?
If you like what we do consider supporting our Patreon! and now you can sign up for an annual membership! Learn more at:
/ thebrothersmurph
Also make sure to follow us on twitch! Come watch us play games live! twitch.tv/thebrothersmurph
Looking to get something from the Board Game Geek store? This affiliate link will take you there and will help us a bit while you get some sweet upgrades
for your game nights!
boardgamegeekst...
Find older games brought to life at Restoration Games and Peep out Fireball Island!!
Restorationgame...
Who's a Lucky Duck? Well it could be if you check out Lucky Duck Games!
luckyduckgames...
Join our discord: discord.thebrothersmurph.com
Get Merch at TheBrothersMerc...
And lastly make sure to check out our award nominated podcast This Game is Broken! You can find it anywhere you get podcasts!
Also check out our podcast youtube channel as well!
#boardgames #vitallacerda #gameplay
The Gallerist is probably the most logical, easiest to learn, and most interesting theme and mechanics that I've seen - so definitely recommend you try it!
It's also just stunning how smooth that game is. Four action spaces and a massive web of choice from them. So dang good.
The 'Heavy Cardboard' youtube channel got me into the desire to play heavier games like this. He's a great teacher in their gameplay videos (and they seem good people to boot!) Highly recommend watching their gameplays!
Great discussion. I love Lacerda games for all the reasons you mentioned. Tough to pick a favourite between them, but probably The Gallerist. I remember visiting it at my FLGS for ages before plunging in, and it did not disappoint. The theme really helps maintain a smooth flow on that one. Plus, the marriage between Lacerda design, O'Toole art, and Eagle Gryphon production is absolute perfection.
Another vote for the gallerist very cool! And couldn’t agree more, Lacerda, Ian O’Toole and eagle gryphon is a pretty potent dream team right there
I love how integrated the mechanisms and theme are and how the complexity isn't in taking 15 actions a turn but how well you chose your single action each turn and put everything together over the course of the whole game.
That’s a great way to put it! No one turn is complicated per se but putting it all together is the challenge
We played Kanban. Really good! I recommend Gallerist. I’m big into the art theme as well.
Looking forward to the playthroughs! Lisboa is my fave Lacerda -- so that's my vote for next one to try. Don't even attempt On Mars until you've played the rest. My wife still won't forgive me for making her play that one!
Lisboa is the one we want to play the most I think
Thank you so much for creating this video! And that you enjoyed the games. 😊
Thanks so much for helping us along on this journey and for making great games!
@@TheBrothersMurph You are so welcome! Thank you for reaching out :)
LFG. The theme integration, the ian o toole iconography, the component quality, the replayability, the overall uniqueness among euros all come together to me to make Lacerda the goat designer and my favorite games of all time. On Mars being my top.
Heck yeah!
Love this, this is a very relatable step for folks as they step further into the hobby. Really hope you’re going to continue the series with further reflections on these games.
That’s the definite hope!
I’ve played Kanaban EV and Lisboa and loved them both.
Just the production quality alone of the Lacerda games is a wonder amongst games. Not just the components, but also the amazing inserts that fit to the millimeter, artwork on the back of the board, just cause, beautiful manuals, and of course…. Sandra
Got On Mars for my 1st Lacerda to challenge myself for my 50th birthday. Now it is my favorite game. Would definitely enjoy watching you guys play it.
Very cool!
I love Lacerda’s games, so many in my favorites of all time. WM is the toughest in my opinion, but the Gallerist & Lisboa are much easier to get a handle on.
Own several Lacerda games. Love them. Probably like Lisboa the most.
That definitely seems to be the top 1 or 2 for many people
As a voyeuristic gamer who doesn't have the time nor the group to play heavy games like these, I would LOVE to see you guys tackle these and games like them as live playthroughs on your channel. Keep it up!
We should be doing some play throughs so keep an eye out!
But you have time to watch playthroughs?
@@stephanberger3476 SergeantSuj might have a different answer, but I am definitely a "voyeuristic gamer" too. For me the advantages of watching vs actually playing are: watching doesn't require a clean table and set up/clean up, I can stop and do something else whenever I want, it can be done solo, and it is less mentally taxing. People often say "time" when they mean energy and opportunity.
@@stephanberger3476 Yes, I have time to passively watch playthroughs in the background of other tasks, but not the time to actively play myself. Especially the Murph Bros' playthrough style gives me the feeling of playing along with them. I get to learn a game and kinda-sorta feel like I've played with friends, all while accomplishing other tasks. That's just my opinion; maybe some people actively stare at multi-hour playthroughs and hear every word and examine every move, but that's not how I consume.
Love Lacerda games. Excited for you both to get into them! For me, I find all of his games shine most at 3 players (except Escape Plan which I like at 4 and CO2 which I prefer at 2 in the cooperative variant). So if it’s possible for your plays, I’d recommend those player counts.
Ok good to know thanks so much!
@@TheBrothersMurph for sure, the player interaction Vital has in his games to allow for follow actions really add to the enjoyment and puzzle. And while it works at 4 fine, I find it just adds to game length.
I can see how there is more interaction and it’s more enjoyable that way but I disagree it’s necessary. Most games (I played all but Weather Machine) play great at two. Like any game, particularly a heavier one, it’s also a shorter game that way.
I think Kanban and Lisboa are fantastic at 2. On Mars is good at 2 but I love the game.
@@uxjared Agreed, it’s not necessary and the games play good at 2. I just like the added player in most of his games so everyone can take more advantage of the follow actions or make available spaces less open.
Great video. It’s really sums up like heavy games in general. Whenever I play one there is this feeling of excitement where part of me wants to play again and another part of me is like easy cowboy your brain box needs a nappy nap. But they are games that will live in my skull for a few days after and then when I know I’m going to play again i start to get amped and thinking about it. Have played Kanban ev twice now and doc it. Want to play it more. For me my favorite heavy game right now is trickerion which is mindclash and not lacerda but I freaking love it. Just cool art and theme and who doesn’t want to be a magician. One I think you guys might dig. Once again. Loved this video.
I love Lacerda games. Kanban is my favorite, followed by On Mars. Great to see you guys step into heavy heavy Euro. Nice stream. Thanks
Woo hoo Lacerda games! And you were definitely already heavy gamers before I think! My first Lacerda was Kanban and it's still my favorite, but I haven't really played a lot of the other ones more than once. I played Weather Machine recently and the theme didn't seem to connect as much with the mechanics for me as with his other games (maybe because I didn't read the rulebook).
I haven't tried any Lacerdas. Looking forward to hearing more about your Lacerda journey! My vote for your next game is Lisboa.
I just got my first Lacerda game... Weather Machine... that I need to get played. I'd love to see a playthrough of either of these; these are the 2 I'm most interested in thus far. Definitely checking out Inventions in June though.
Sounds good! And play throughs will be on the way shortly so we hope you enjoy!
I’ve played both those games, weather machine once and Kanban 14 times - mainly because I only got Weather Machine this year. It is going to be harder to table because it’s a lot slower than Kanban and harder to teach.
Kanban is amazing. For heavy game it’s easier to teach than the other Lacerdas I’ve played and plays very quickly - we can do two player in an hour and three players in two hours. It’s a masterpiece and very chess like with moves and counter moves once you know the game enough to see them.
The challenge with Lacerdas is fitting them all in. When you want to play multiple games from one designer many times in succession in the context of all your other games it’s tough. But they deserve it.
My next to try is Lisboa and I can’t wait.
I think Kanban EV is the best Lacerda to dip your toes into the heavy stuff for sure, I love it. Weather Machine is in my top ten! I think you guys should definitely try The Gallerist next to when your way up... or for a heavy non-Lacerda try Trismegistus
Copy that on the Gallerist and we have played Trismegistus but it’s been a long time
Try Lisboa, the best one for me. Had the chance to playtest Inventions, it will easily make my top-3 Lacerda with Lisboa and Kanban EV
Ooooh more hype for Inventions very cool!
Seeing that you two were able to read the rulebook, learn and teach a game, and have fun, gives me more confidence that a Lacerda game is something I can handle too. I mean, it seem like it is a stretch from medium-heavy games, but not so much that you will rupture a brain artery from thinking too hard. I'd like to see you play more. Lisboa and the Gallerist are probably the two I am most interested in.
Yeah, we were very happy to learn that these games are more within reach than we thought. They really aren’t games that are confusing or anything and the rule books and the graphic design of the games really reinforce what you were able to do so it’s really just about focusing on that strategy and that’s where the complexity comes in. So if we can do it, anyone can. And I can’t recommend highly enough Before you Play as they have done Playthrough videos for all of these games, and it really helps me to understand the flow
Thanks for doing this. Great insights and great advise by you guys. I love both these games.... I'm biased as the developer but these are two of the best games I have had the honor to work on. My advice would be to play The Gallerist next.
We’re having a blast delving into the Lacerda-verse and we actually have The Gallerist on the table now to learn wahoo!
Kanban EV is one of my favourite games now. I love it. Personally I'd say try the Gallerist next - it's fighting for my favourite Lacerda for sure. On Mars is excellent but one that takes a long time to learn and teach and you definitely need multiple plays of to start truly digging the game out.
If you end up like Vinhos, you'll like Lisboa because he's very much like Uwe where you can tell that he's iterated on a specific ideas and refined them into another game. It isn't as one to one but I'd definitely recommend Vinhos before Lisboa as that one is probably the most complicated one outside of On Mars.
I really like Lacerdas earlier games Vinhos, CO2 but have started to bounce off the more recent stuff, so Vinhos gets my vote.
If you reallly want to get heavy then you need to check out some Splotter games. Indonesia and The Great Zimbabwe being two absolute masterpieces.
Also Brass Birmingham is an S rank game. I've never had a dull game.
Top tier Lacerda: On Mars, Lisboa, Kanban EV
Second tier Lacerda: Vinhos Deluxe, CO2 Second Chance, Escape Plan
Third tier Lacerda: Weather Machine, The Gallerist
They’re all good though, and well worth owning. The top three are just incredible though.
Other awesome heavy games: Arkwright, Coffee Trader, Cooper Island, Feudum, Food Chain Magnate, John Company: Second Edition, Oath, Pax Transhumanity.
Enjoy the journey.
REALLY want to try Coffee Trader and Cooper Island!
Great stuff! My husband and I love the Lacerdas. Lisboa is probably our favourite, but these two tie for second. We’d each probably put Vinhos last - it doesn’t seem to scratch the “Lacerda itches” in quite the same way and maybe isn’t as visually compelling (to me), but the little bottles of port are fun to stack. 😀 On Mars is absolutely terrific and may someday tie for first if we can ever get through a game without a major mistake!
Awesome thanks for all the thoughts on Lacerda!
Would love to see a playthrough of Lisboa! (Also, for non-Lacerda would love to see you play Trickerion.)
We really wanna try Trickerion
Funny enough got Lisboa delivered yesterday. Definitely up for watching you guys tackle Lacerdas. Go get em bros
Woot!
Love Lacerda!!! Lisboa and Gallerist forever. Weather machine is great too!
Lisboa is my top, because it was my first Vital)
I'm here and along with you both for the journey! 💕 I fell in love with kanban ev about a month ago and can't get enough! My vote is for lisboa! I just ordered myself a copy this week 💕
Yeah we really want to play Lisboa!
Really like the looks and mechanics of his games, we haven't had a chance to try them as some of the heavier games tend to cause too much AP, which of course doesn't translate well on camera lol.
I'd like to see you play the Gallerist. Lacerta games are SO intimidating, but I heard that the Gallerist is easier to learn. I have it, just haven't played it. Bot Factory, which Lacerta collaborated on, is much lighter, but would still be fun to see played. His games are definitely very high Quality; beautiful to look at and intricate.
The Gallerist is definitely high on our list to try! Really wanna try Bot Factory as well
lisboa is the heaviest one i've played, but when you get the game down and have played it several times it really sings. Almost sandboxy for a Lacerda. I really like kanban too. Deffo backing inventions.
Really excited to hear more about inventions too!
Love both of these games❤❤❤ I also like to play them solo. Would love to see you play more and with full playthroughs. I'd vote for Lisboa or On Mars to see next 😊
We're planning on it :)
I want more! Would love to see some play throughs and would love to see you play Vinhos and see if it takes the wine game spot😉
Ooooooh that’d be wild
More Lacerda please, Love me some Kanban, I have Weather Machine on order. Would love to see you guys try the Gallerist (especially with Nicks art background). Keep up the good work!
I have always wanted to try The Gallerist!
You have some other heavy games to check out, such as Stefan Risthaus, i.e Arkwright, Alban Viard, i.e Clinic, and of course Splotter games, they are easier in rules but really difficult to domain, for instance I think their latest release, Horseless Carriage, is a master piece.
Right on thanks for the recommendations!
Looking forward to following you on your journey into heavy gaming, gents! Keep us updated. I haven't been much of a heavy gamer either so I'm interested in your thoughts. The games also look beautiful!
We’re happy you’ll be following along!
I can't wait to see you guys play full games of these. I'll also be curious to see how you feel about, say, A Feast for Odin, one of your favorites, after getting better at Lacerda's games. For me Lacerda makes Rosenberg's stuff seem a little on the dull and tedious side (so, be careful). I vote Lisboa for your next one. Such a beautiful game with a great concept and flow, and also not that difficult after gaining familiarity with it.
I don't think there's anything that could make us not love Feast! But we'll see
Escape plan with the right group is a blast. Favorite "heavy" games: Barrage, Trismegistus, Trickerion, Feudum.
Awesome thanks for all the recs!
Excellent video, thanks! I really think you should try Lisboa, it's an absolutely fantastic, highly thematic game, for me it's just a perfect game without any flaws. Yes, it's heavy, but at least for me, Kanban was more difficult to grasp. Anyway, thanks again for an honest and inspiring video.
Yeah we are dying to play that one again!
I've recently gotten into Splotter games. Bus, The Great Zimbabwe, and Horseless Carriage are all FANTASTIC! That's what I'd recommend for your heavy game future.
Side recommendation: Clinic: Deluxe Edition (Capstone Games) and Small City (AVStudioGames) are other heavy games you should try! They feel more like a Splotter than a Lacerda.
Whoa! They just played some Lacerdas, and now you want them to get right into Splotters? One step at a time. 😀
@@c.w.2000 Haha! Well, having played 3 Lacerdas and 3 Splotters I personally think the Splotters were easier for me to grasp. Harder to understand how to win, but much easier in knowing what I can physically do on a turn. I stayed away from Splotters for a long time because of the stigma of how hard they are, but now I know it's completely unwarranted. At least in my opinion.
Co2 second chance is under loved I feel (I prefer the semi coop side), but one I would love to try is Vinhos
Also, you’re totally right on playing them again soon. I think ideally, we would play one game many times in a month. After that, you should know the rules by heart.
Would love to see you try On Mars next!
Can't wait to play it!
Welcome aboard, brothers :) lisboa still my favorite lacerda.. followed by kanban ev, on mars.. lisboa just sings
Really excited for that one! That was the first we played but it was a thousand years ago haha
I love Vital Lacerda games. They’re like chess in a sense of you have to plan and set yourself up for the future or you will fail.
Yeah we don't plan well...lol
If you can find someone who has perseverance then you should give that one a shot. I think the both of you would enjoy it
Kanban EV is my favorite game. For as much as I love the theme of Kanban I like the theme of Escape Plan more. I really really want to get it and the other Lacerda games to the table.
Same, absolutely love the themes of both of these
Also curious how you feel they play at 2 players. I often feel that 3 is a sweet spot for his games.
We liked both of these at 2, though Weather Machine felt like it may be better at 3
My favorite one is Lisboa, I love playing a game about the city where I live Lisbon, Portugal 👍
That’s awesome
Weather machine would not be my first Lacerda… it was The Gallerist and Vinhos for me …. Then I graduated to Kanban, On Mars … etc.
Join...the...cult... :-) I feel like anyone who enjoys a T game with expansions, for example, will have no trouble with the "weight" of a Lacerda. There are plenty of great how to play and play through videos for pretty much all of them. The real barrier is often the price, so they tend to be special "big" birthday or Christmas gifts for us. However, the components and art are always top notch, and you'll get hours and hours of play, so you never feel like it was wasted money. On Mars is our favorite; it's great at two.
Yeah given our journey of gaming to this point we are happy that these games don’t feel out of reach complexity wise. And they are definitely expensive but I agree and am glad that they are such wonderfully built productions! Everything comes together so nicely
I’ve been playing some Lacerda games. The most time on a game I’ve had to reference the rule book compared to other games. I feel like his games are more rules heavy than strategic heavy. After you learn the rules, what you need to do is clear. But it’s the learning the rules that makes it heavy.
Also I don’t think O’Tooles art is good. But Denny L always has my head.
Yeah the rules are a big hurdle, once you get them down the games aren't as bad
My fave three Lacerdas are The Gallerist, Lisboa, and On Mars!
Copy that we have heard the same for many other people, so we are excited to try those!
I had a big issue with Weather Machine (the Dice Tower review talks about it a lot). There is a space that has the gears but doesn't require gears like another space, which I had to remind myself of constantly in an already overwhelming game. Weather Machine looks incredible, but nothing felt fun to me. The big actions have so many little steps, but nothing that felt exciting. I was disappointed in that one and eventually sold it.
However, I love On Mars very much and you guys should check it out soon. It's one of my favorites. Lisboa and Vinhos is up next for me with Lacerda. I have also wanted Kanban for a while .
For other heavy games, I'd recommend Clinic, Barrage, Feudum, and Golem.
Yeah the spot with the machine parts that doesn't require machine parts is very confusing. We liked the game a lot, but that part is a bit of a misstep
What do you class as a heavy game? Is it how long it takes to play? Intricacy ? How complicated it is?
Our heaviest game is probably Star Wars rebellion, which easily takes us 2-3 hours
I’d say intricacy is the main thing. Doing small stuff on your turns that are all gears in a much larger machine. And a lot of games I’d classify as heavier seem to focus on being as efficient as you can so not a single turn gets wasted.
I would go with either The Gallerist or On Mars.
Copy that!
Kanban EV is a good into into Lacerda games. Another good one is the Gallerist, which uses similar few worker spots where you can go, and try to achieve a general goal. Kanban it's the cars, and in Gallerist it's the paintings, and trying to increase those prices. Both utilize the theme really well, but still offer very deep decision trees.
The Weather Machine is not very good intro, the theme doesn't tie it together, and there are many levers which don't make really that much 'sense'.
i feel the theme ties it together perfectly and the levers do make sense.
Agreed Kanban (even though we played it second) feels like a great starting point. To me it felt more linear just because I can understand in theory what goes into making cars. Both were a blast though!
Thanks for the kind words guys!
I mean, they ain't wrong, are they. So, thanks to you on behalf of all board gamers. Thanks for helping to make this amazing hobby more beautiful.
You know we are big-time fans, but seriously, bravo and we can’t wait to see more from you and lacerda!
Would be great to see a Weather Machine play through here!
We'll be doing one!
CO2 2nd edition is a coop fav for my wife and I. On Mars and Lisboa also top favs
Excellent
I would put Barrage and Trickerion in the group of heavy that you need to play more to be better at.
Weather machine is the best board game.
Heck yeah!
I want you to play Vinhos next just to hear Nick’s comparison to Viticulture 😊 😂
We are so curious to try it for that exact reason!
Y'all need to turn back before it's too late! It starts with "i really want to try the next Lacerda game" and before you know it, you're rating every midweight Euro a 1 complexity on BGG because "I've played heavier".
The problem I've had with Vital Lacerda games is you basically need someone who knows the game really well, as learning from rulebook takes too long. Also the amount of rules in each game means it's really difficult to remember everything if you don't play them often (which is true in my case).
Yeah that’s why we wanna make sure we play it again quickly here so we hang on to the rules
There are several channels that teach and play the game, so you don't have to read those rulebooks, and can just refer to them once in a while. Watch it Played, Before you play....
@@hiho8084 Before You Play are my Lacerda headquarters for that reason.
kanban is one of my favs.
It’s awesome
I’m trying to skew lighter games now because heavy games just get played more rarely at our house…
Yeah I feel that for sure
Who even are you? I don't know anymore.
We are The Mrothers Burph!