The History of the Gypsies (Roma)
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- čas přidán 21. 03. 2024
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✏️Description: Known across the world by many names such as: "Gypsies", "Roma", "Romani", "Sinti", etc... ; the Gypsies played a crucial role in the development of the Balkans & the history of many of the countries that inhabit the region today such as: Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Greece, Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia, and many others outside of the region. Yet, when talking about history, very rarely are the Roma mentioned or talked about. In this video we go over the origin of the Roma in India, their migration across the Silk Road and into the Balkans, their life in the Balkans & under the Ottoman Empire, the 20th century, their life under communism & finally modern times.
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On the word "Gypsy":
"Gypsy" comes from the word "Egyptian", because prior to the late 18th century, Europeans & Gypsies themselves believed they came from Egypt. The word "Roma" means "man/person" in the Gypsy language, and prior to basically the 1950s the Gypsies didn't even think of themselves as a coherent group, but different clans and families.
If we're talking about the more colloquial word for Gypsies in Eastern Europe, "cigan, cigány, țigan", it comes from the Greek "antsigan" which means untouchable. However, outside of Greece, most didn't know the meaning of the word (surprise surprise medieval peasants were monolingual). Later in the 16th century due to Gypsies becoming the majority of the slave population in the Ottoman empire & the Balkans, the versions of "antsigan" became synonymous with slave. However, the words "Slav/Sclav" also meant slave as Ottomans had laws of considering non-Muslims their property.
In modern times the meaning of the word was lost, and many associated the negative qualities to the word because of association and negative context. The push for not using the word and using "Roma" is relatively new and came about in the 90s. However, within the Gypsy community in the Balkans there has been a counter movement against the use of the word "Roma". From a standpoint of several reasons.
1. Being the retaking of a word & meaning
2. In traditional Gypsy circles, it is not acceptable for foreigners aka "gadje" to speak Gypsy as it was kept a secret language from them due to oppression.
If you ask a Gypsy in the Balkans how they prefer to be called, the majority of the time they will say "Gypsy". I haven't really seen anyone but westerners and western raised Gypsies make a fuss over this word. Hell, I have a Gypsy aunt inlaw who is adamant on the term "Gypsy" over "Roma". If someone does ask me from the community to not refer that way, I will. But overall in both Serbia, Romania, and Hungary the term amongst the Gypsy population is not seen as a slur.
Many Romanians & Romanian gypsies actually are pushing against the use of the word "Roma" due to being too similar to "Romanian". From the Gypsy perspective the case being they don't want their cultural identity to be erased and taken as Romanians, while Romanians don't want to be mistaken for Gypsies (which is a whole other story in itself)
📖Sources:
⚫Fonseca Isabel - Bury Me Standing
⚫Hancock Ian - We Are The Romani People
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Goofy ah music is very goofy 19:53
Bro i find these vids offensive and relatable at the same time. How are you doing that???
Hi.
is the music between 19:00-20:00 waltzing matilda?
Now imma be real with you. As an African American back in 2021 I thought the balkans consisted of Greek gypsies and Turkish gypsies. And that’s why tall hated each other. That’s pretty damn ignorant but I’m just showing you how far I’ve grown.
Never ask:
-A woman about her age
-A man about his salary
-A European about what he thinks of Gypsies
Or a gypsy what they have in their pockets 😅😜
it's all fun and games until your neighbor sells his house to a gypsy family as a revenge to another neighbor and suddenly you have 7 gypsy families with concert grade speakers blasting their "music" through half the village all day so loudly your entire house is vibrating like a subwoofer
Only the people that have met gypsies now why they are hated
@@ytubestolemyhandle I think this is one of the examples the poster meant. It is only problems with them. In a perfect world they go back where they belong and where they came from.
@@ytubestolemyhandle if they just blast music we can way you are definitely lucky.
The next step is to find they filled the stairs with trash and, sometimes, dead animals.
I have an apartment that has been in that situation for years, and I was just empty, because it wasn't even possible to rent it.
Finally 7-8 years ago police expelled all gypsies (2 apartments occupied, one by not paying the rent and the other straight occupied because it was empty) with "kindness" and we were able to restore the area.
One of my best friends from middle school was a gipsy. He disliked being called roma. Was a really nice guy, smart, well-mannered and now he is a physics professor at a university in the UK. His brother on the other hand is in jail for stealing cars in Germany.
Why he disliked that?
that's dosne't mean its ok to call them that. Its like saying "i had a black friend who didn't mind me saying the n word"
@@EmbrodI am gypsy/Romani
I am not bothered by being called Roma but I think the term is kinda... idk it just doesn't feel right. It's less inclusive than gypsy but honestly feels somehow more loose. Like I have a clear picture when I hear gypsy, I don't have a clear picture when I hear Roma. It's hard to explain
I guess it would be how some black Americans prefer being called over black compared to African American? idk
@@anonemusofficial2511 they just don't like the "Roma" denomination.
It's like you calling a black man negro to them.
@@anonemusofficial2511 I think it's smart to ask a Roma person how they handle describing their ethnic background. My family prefers gypsy over Roma, but there's people with opposite views too
When I was growing up in eastern europe, my parents would tell me that if I misbehaved, the gypsies would come and take me away.
Did they?...... take you away?
🤣 me too
Here in Italy this has happened once. A bunch of gypsies took a little girl hostage inside a shopping mall. I also got robbed by them once, and they illegally settled in a private farming land near where i live. Maybe it's just the ones in my area, but they are the worst people i've ever met. They are like a fucking barbarian camp from Civilization games. I swear my country has the worst type of gypsies.
Here in Italy this has happened once. A bunch of gypsies took a little girl hostage inside a shopping mall. I also got robbed by them once, and they illegally settled in a private farming land near where i live. Maybe it's just the ones in my area, but they are the worst people i've ever met. They are like a fucking barbarian camp from Civilization games.
Same 😅
Hungarians and Romanians putting aside their differences just to persecute Gypsies is a true Balkan moment.
Romanians and Hungarians and anyone from this part of the world knows how it is with Gypsies
Gypsies make hungarians look like sweet bread
you look so unmanly
The true white moment is whites attacking other cultures over and over again ... typical
Lol bro catching strays
I have a Gypsy friend, he's a really cool and fun guy, but my biggest mistake was i accidentally mentioned him once infront of my Romanian classmates, now they greet me with a "O Tsigan" every morning 😭😭😭
Damn
Edit:Thanks for the likes guys :)
it is the Balkans 😂
as they should.
Welcome to the gang, Țigan cel Mare.
To me you're either a Krkan or a Tsigan.
In the 60s I had a gypsy classmate at the university in Budapest. He came from the eastern part of Hungary, near the Soviet (today Ukrainian) border. He said that his biggest problems were not with Hungarians but with other gypsies. Every time he visited his parents in their village during holidays other gypsies beat him up because "he wanted to be white". One year he ended up in hospital for several weeks because of this beating. Of course, no witnesses were prepared to testify. After that, he never returned to his village. He worked real hard and managed to graduate.
So, similar situation with blacks in murica.
@@Embrodyes. Only Gypsies are much worse in the tradition department because they actually have a whole culture behind it.
most gypsys are white though
@@eatinsomtin9984 No they're not
@@eatinsomtin9984 no they're not lmao
Fun fact for a anyone curious, the building with the clock at 24:54 is the old railway station in Skopje, the current clock lays dormant on the time the 1963 earthquake happened as half the building lays missing. Its now a historical building and a visual reminder of the earthquake.
My wife is Indian. I’m English but tan well and can ‘blend in’ in many southern European countries. The amount of times we’ve been confused as Roma! Even once by Roma themselves because they heard us talking in her native language. Numbers and counting remains very similar between the two languages
yuck x\
Lol , the Anal-banian🍆 from an irrelevant country @@user-fd9bt2ck4u
Romani when they see a fellow Indian homie: 👀✌️
Race traitor
Used to play football with a Gypsy when I was younger, used to be a real chill guy but now he’s a hard criminal
No surprise there xD
Natural development
No way dude I would have never guessed
Ok so I know nothing about Gypsies. Is this a stereotype? Is it normal? Are all gypsies criminals? Someone explain plz
Is it Orban?
I think the biggest challenge is school. I have seen really bright little Roma kids who don't even try to listen because nobody at home cares. And if they do try to do well they get put down a peg by the community. Had a 6 year old kid who said she wanted to be a nurse but knew she couldn't because she wasn't allowed.
So true, from what I know there's quite prominent anti school and anti integration narrative in Roma families. I knew few growing up, but it always seemed like they just dropped out at one point or another, or they just went to "expected" professions. While I do think the face racism, quite bad at that sometimes. I do think it's self inflicted quite a bit. Roma seem to have quite strong culture that really just stops them from climbing up.
@@mukkaar I mean, I wouldn't blame them for being wary of any kind of integration after literal centuries of slavery, and multiple attempts at genocides.
roma parents are trash ALWAYS
The Romani is a cult not an ethnicity
Yea they’re doing really well on their own now
We have an old phrase in my country it roughly translates to "keep one eye on the donkey and the other one on the gipsy"
My grandpa told me about his brother was kidnapped by gypsies in Italy as a child. They were able to save him but you can’t bring up the word gypsy without it triggering his PTSD.
A gypsy friend of mine literally been thrown out the window as a baby, he's adopted and has great parents, he was abusing drugs for a while. Now he has been off drugs and he's been working a lot, both on himself and financially, he's been going to the gym and he's a very good friend
Jesus
What kind of monster would literally throw a goddamn BABY!?!? Wtf man!!?!?
@@frankenweeny8785
You haven't seen the video/gif of the gypsy woman using another kid as a mace against a guy? Or heard of how they make like 12 kids and send them to beg or mutilate them for extra money especially from the states?
I assure you any stories you heard about gypsies are probably sanitized for the internet, even this video
@@frankenweeny8785 Maybe the house was on fire and he was safely thrown into the arms of another person?
@@rippspeck We don't know that
As a Bulgarian, I can confirm that a share my village on the outskirts of Pleven with several Romani that casually make me play Yu Gi O cards with them . Every night we all cast a curse on the North Macedonians as well.
Lol
Какво? Ако псуваш макендонец, псуваш кръвен брат или сестра. Омразата крепи разделението!
Mega based
😂
so cute XD
You missed out on one of the main tragedies of the gypsy way of life. You reported on how they tried to get food on the table while moving around by being traders, entertainers etc but to be fair they also were often stealing stuff when they couldn't bring in enough money which in turn led to an even greater rift between them and the communities they passed through. One of the main factors many nations established strict laws against them was in fact the experience of "unproper behaviour" when they traveled around. They've been dealt a very shitty hand, however I find it difficult to judge nations for trying to protect their citizens from that behaviour (obviously race theory aside, that shit was mental as well as putting them in camps)
I guarantee a lot of people moaning about complaints about gypsies have never had the experience of a group of them showing up in their area, trashing the place with litter, coming into businesses (at my work, we have a cafe attached to the supermarket and we had a gypsy family causing issues) like they own the place causing trouble, starting fights, letting their kids do whatever they want, and leaving the area without a care in the world. Then imagine being told not to complain about all that or risk being called some sort of ist.
Love reading the comments and seeing there’s so many of us. hello my gipsy brothers and sisters 💙from a Hungarian/Slovakian cigány
I don’t think they have internet connection 😢
In my Polish town not so long ago we had a self-proclaimed "king of the gypsies", he was an extremely respected and was de facto the head of the local gypsy community.
Yeah they tend to organise themselves this way, a family member working in the Belgian immigration system told me he knew three different « king of the gypsies »
I think a lot of countries with a significant populations have a self proclaimed king.
Here in romania we also have/had one.
a w jakim miescie?
@@danutmhPoland doesn’t have significant gypsy populations
Usurper! Everyone knows that the one true Gypsy King was the late Rene Karoli from Norway! If there is to be one now it must follow his line to the closest living relative of the Karoli clan! (jk btw, but we also had one)
Unironically I think this is one of the most underrated and interesting stories of a people group.
And a rather sensitive and sympathetic portrayal.
Brother they were slaves lol@@Hajde_budalla
@@dozenbuzzard2662 so what? everybody was a slave at some point in history, Christian whites were slaves to ottomans.
@@dozenbuzzard2662 as they should be
Another example of why mass immigration is wrong. They should have been deported to India a long time ago.
this was the hands down best history lesson on CZcams while being entertaining at the same time. good job man 👍🏻
We had a group of them pass thru our town. Every bit of metal was stripped from the historic cemetery.
The wrought iron fencing, bronze head stones, war memorials, flower vases, ect.
The state police tracked them down and was able to retrieve some of it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💀
🤣🤣🤣🤣💀
I'm British, and I met this British gypsy girl online. She thought she was distantly Romanian and Egyptian but, in reality, had no clue. I found it interesting as I felt I knew her heritage better than her. She was taken out of her school by her family and wasn't allowed back, agaisnt her wishes was basically locked in her own home. Despite being 18, only had up to 11 year old education. Its because of this that in general the gypsy community gets the worst results in school, two times worse than any other ethnic group, with girls affected especially.
Mostly they are unemployed, and rely on social services
Yeah it's super sad, even infuriating. There are good schools with majority gypsies here in Bulgaria, there are bright intelligent gypsies, but after 8th grade the boys start working, the girls get married and they have no opportunity to integrade with larger society.
No it's because they're degenerated
A lot of gypsies will keep their kids in school to learn basic math and reading. But deal with a lot of food insecurities and housing problems. So they feel like they need "all hands on deck" just to survive. But this is sentiment shared a lot. When a lot of gypsies live normally in society like everyone else. Like me, a gypsie.
Gypsies in UK are a lot different then in rest of the EU.
Funniest(and saddest) part is that politicians use Romani people as cheep voters in Serbia and Montenegro. In Serbia,few years ago,Romani managed to get Hungarian party a lot of seats in a place where Hungarians make less than ~3% of population due to wrong advertisement. In Montenegro,politicians buy Romani votes for 20 euros while Romani themselfs live in slums. Few days ago,a slum in Bar(coastal city in Montenegro)burned down,killing 4 people(2 or 3 were underage). There was also Karton City(cardboard city)in Belgrade that was,as it names implies,made out of cardboard and nearly 1000 people lived there.
In my country, the leftist party used them by telling them that they where gonna give them rights, it was a plus of almost a million votes
yay democracy!
The same phenomenon occurs is Romania, where local politicians give them "gifts" and "get-out-of-jail-free cards" in exchange for votes. The worst thing I've witnessed is politicians giving them tips on how to scam the national social insurance programs, incentivizing dirt-poor gypsies to have more kids, because more unemployed, uneducated gypsies = more votes.
same in russia 😳
Wow 😮
Really important topic not a lot of people know of, this video will very much have an impact in the world for the better! God bless you and your work!
Love seeing all the wholesome comments on here... what a breath of fresh air
I agree! It's time for the gypsies to be deported to India, where they belong. Btw don't call them Roma, as they have absolute nothing in common with Rome. I don't understand who came up with that absurd term.
Fun fact: Here in Brazil, in old times the gypsies were experts in fixing mechanisms in sugar mills and other mechanical devices. They were called "gringos" and were always mysterious, remaining on the margins of general society, trafficking native spices and African slaves that they captured or stole.
In the 19th century, when Englishmen mechanics appeared to build and repair the railways all over the country, they were called "gringos" by the population because they performed the same technical function as gypsies in the past, that's why to this day in Brazil we call foreigners "gringos"
(Mexicans also use this word with a similar origin, but with a different meaning).
Isn’t gringos also a slured way to say “white man in spanish”? (Btw I know your language is portugese)
@@Pollicina_db Well, I think in Spanish only Anglo people (from the US/UK) specifically are called "gringos". A Mexican of German origin, for example, will not be called a "gringo" by mexican mestizos. And I read somewhere that the word "gringo" in Spanish also originates from gypsies, but in Mexico it began to be used to designate Anglo-Americans due to the constant cattle thefts carried out by them (which gypsies were already famous for committing), so they were called the same slur as the gypsies. Idk if it's true btw.
Here in Brazil there is no slur for "white" people. In my region specifically, blonde people with light eyes are traditionally called "Galegos" (galicians), but it is not offensive or derogatory.
isnt brazil black country?? in Africa people know brazil as black country
@@bukhariapdelahi7072 No, Brazil's population is virtually half white and half mixed race (black+European, European+native, black+native, etc). Black people make up close to 10% of the population. I myself am Brazilian and my skin is pale. In fact, there are more white people living in Brazil than in Germany, France, UK or any European country other than Russia.
As a Slovenian gypsy (or half gypsy to be precise), I can say that the mentality of people as well as the overall picture has changed a lot since my childhood. I live in a gypsy village that resembles a typical local village with all the needed modern infrastructure (electricity, water, internet, proper housing...) and is considered one of the most advanced and organised romani settlements in the world. Also most people now have jobs and are getting educated. I myself have a college degree and work at a reputable company. The stigma is partially still there, but it is also easy to see that it can slowly but surely be erased if the correct steps are taken by society, both the gypsies and the rest.
So I have a serious question for you. How do you feel about the term gypsy? You self identify that way. I'm curious because as a professional musician I see this coming up more and more when it related to the specific genre of "Gypsy Jazz." I get some people want do away with harmful words and be more sensitive, but this seems like one of those times when white people want to intervene in a performative way rather than actually caring what the people themselves thing.
I care a lot about this because black Americans really did have their own music (original jazz) sort of stolen and coopted by white people and then sort of white washed. That's my concern about Gypsy Jazz being relabeled as Jazz Manouche. I feel like in a way it robs the historical ownership of that style of music from the people even if that's not the intention behind it.
Obviously I feel like how a given people feel about the terms matter more than a bunch of well meaning white folks. You're just one person and no group is a monolith, but I'd really love your opinion on the topic since I just don't have access to a lot of people I can actually ask about their feelings on the terms Gypsy, Roma, Romani, and Jazz Manouche.
@@Yeargdribble
In Hungary:
'Roma > Gipsy was a '90s 'invention' of the Lefties.
There were Skinheads, there was a need for sensations for the press, (as always).
Huge loads of money were spent to targeted education, + several other helping projects.
But the crime rate wouldn't lower, nor the school marks rise.
They scapegoated the: 'racist whites'.
Also stole the money. (The white politicians this time.)
Check dis out:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alad%C3%A1r_Pege
The main page wouldn't mention his ethnicity,
but if you scroll lower:
'Categories:
..Hungarian Romani people'
The answer to this might not be that simple. The word gypsy is often used as a slur, but it depends on the context. Among Romani (at least where i come from) the term is often used in conversation without malintent, depending on the language you converse in. Conversing in romani, the word would be "roma", but conversing in Slovene you would often say "cigan", meaning gypsy. I myself would not take it lightly if I hear someone saying it with malintent, but among friends it is accepted and i would retort with the same word.
When it comes to music, I see no problem with calling it "Gypsy Jazz". As a musician myself, I can immediately identify the music by this description alone and see no need to relabel it otherwise. Although the word "manouche" in some romani languages would mean "person" or "man", which is probably an attempt to make the term more culturaly acceptable, but as i said, I have no problem with calling it Gypsy Jazz and would actually prefer this term to any other.
@@Pipsonite Im from Germany and I wouldn't use the word "Ziegeuner" because it sounds ugly to me. Kinda like, pardon the weird comparison, "ficken" means "to fuck" but sounds way more ugly than it's english counter part. German words are really hit or miss regarding aesthetic sound."Gypsy" sounds normal enough to me but it's interesting that it comes from the misconseption that Gypsies come from Egypt
O zigano
Although there are problems in the Gypsy community in Bulgaria (poverty, theft, prostitution, etc.) here is an interesting story - I was smoking with a co-worker of mine outside my office 4-5 years ago. A little gypsy kid, about 10 years old, was ridding a (non-electric) scooter nearby. I told him that he won't be able to jump over a curb nearby and this 10 year old became cocky as a 15 year old ("Who...me?! Ofcourse I can do it!" and the like). He gained speed and just barely jumped over the curb with his scooter and I told him "OK, let me treat you to something from the cafeteria" and I walked inside, him following me. The lady behind the counter started yelling "Oh, hell no, get out of here, you!" and I realised she was talking to him. I was baffled and asked "why?" after which she asked me if he is with me, I said "yes" and she muttered "well, OK, then". This 10 year old boy, that was cocky as a 15 year old a minute ago, became shy as a 5 year old. I asked him if he prefers Fanta or Coca-Cola, Bounty or Twix etc. and he just kept saying "I don't know" with his head down. I got some drinks and candy-bars for him and he said "thank you", while still keeping his head down. I am not sure what went through his head, whether it was the first time he experienced such things, but to be honest I replayed this event in my head and I am angry at myself for not doing 2 things - scolding the lady at the counter and trying to talk to the kid afterwards (altough I still don't know what I am suppossed to say in this case). If the lady (~50 years old) behind the counter was a man my age I would probably have told him to go f&ck himself...but yeah, I think about that sometimes. The kid probably thinks about it more. He should be 14-15 years old now, probably angry at the world around him. The moral of the story is - it's not important whether the chicken or the egg came first (people in the Balkans know which debate I am refering to), it's important to think about solutions and treat people the same way you want to be treated.
A lot of gypsy kids are like this they fear white people especially older ones they usually treat them very badly overtime they develop hatred towards the white population and that’s how they end up becoming known asocials 99% of the time their behaviour and ways would change if society started treating them like human from a young age
As a gipsy from Finland, I can tell you learn from a very young age that you are different and unwelcome to most things. As a child you know its because of your heritage, but still see yourself the same as everyone else, and wonder why am I disliked when i do nothing wrong. Mostly to deal with this you either pull out of non-gipsy circles or grow a very hard shell to protect yourself of constant hurt.
There are many flaws within our culture, but much more beatiful things. Some wander for the darker path because of not getting a fair chance in life. Getting an apartment, job, friends etc.. are very difficult even tho you dont have criminal record and have good credit scores. Some people ask me about our black magic even in this day and age.
Thank you for your story, good deeds carry far and can impact someones life greatly.
There might have been a disagreement between the older lady and the cocky boy so it was best not to get involved.
There's a smart looking Gypsy community near the town of Dryanovo in Bulgaria (the houses are looking better and better every year, and there is a nice children's playground built by the commune). We know a few of the Gypsies as we've employed some of them for seasonal work, and on occasion given them a lift in our car.
There are still flashpoints in Gabrovo, but here, things are getting better now as Gypsies work in local shops, garages, schools, and for the town hall. There are outreach projects from the community and children do attend school.
I took 2 Bulgarian gypsies with my taxi and somehow they stole the cars floor mats from the back. Also when I was living near a gypsy neighborhood, my cars antenna and window wipers would get stolen in like every other week. I've moved away from there and I don't take gypsies as clients anymore. Not because I'm a racist of any kind, (I'm a foreigner in Bulgaria too) but just because it fixes "my shit is getting stolen" problem. I don't care about root causes, I just know what I see and what I experience. So that lady had a point, definitely she has more experience with gypsies than you. People who defends gypsies, usually are the people who live in a bubble, in a safe space where they never have to deal with gypsies.
bro, I want to hug you
I recently learned about my Romanichal heritage, thank you for this video it was both incredibly insightful and funny!
I feel bad for all Sinti and Roma. We had a witness of WW2, better said, the concentration camps, who explained the horrible treatment his family experienced during that time. His uncle, who was young at the time, was a victim of Mengele and his grandmother only survived due to having twins
Wow man, this might be your opus. So much history here I was unaware of, presented as entertainingly as ever. Excellent work.
Thank you so much
This is a great lesson in history about the Balkans and its culture.
But I believe we can get much higher.
@@csmrookie9600we can and shall
@@LivingIronicallyinEurope
Lol wow the US must have been child's play compared to Europe.
@@thewingedhussar4188 read up on the islamic slave trade too. That is a whole another can of worms.
When I lived and worked in Turkey teaching English I had two Turkish friends who (secretly) told me about thier Gypsy ancestry. One told me she was Bulgarian/Turkish/Gypsy because her grandparents were kicked out of Bulgaria in the early 1980s when Bulgaria was kicking out Muslims. She said her ancestral family were Gypsies in Bulgaria who converted to Islam in the 18th century, and became middle class working for Ottoman administrators until the World War 1. She could speak Turkish, Bulgarian, English, understood Kurdish, some Farsi and some Arabic. She had extended family members living in Bulgaria, Lebanon, Armenia, Germany and Turkey.
We didn't kick them out - they just had to get party acceptable names (everyone had to have a communist party acceptable names) so the commies could register them for tax like everyone else - something that is culturally unacceptable and so they were escorted to the border - some changed their names and stayed of course.
Wow, she could be a great translator
@hawkingstar1698 Ha ha! I told her that, and she said that actually it wasn't a big deal since all the members of her family had to speak 2 or 3 languages because they were scattered. I was impressed, but to her it was normal. She worked for university administration.
MY FAMILY TOO ARE SECRET GYPSIES RELATED TO THE HUNS FROM ATTILLA THE HUN AND VLAD THE IMPALER BLOOD LINE OUR MAIN DIETY TO WORSHIP WAS BABY JESUS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND TOOK A CATHOLIC VENIER IN THE PUBLIC EYE BUT AT HOME WE HAD ALL THE FIXINGS A GYPSIE FAMILY WOULD HAVE AND LIVE LIKE SHHHHH DONT TELL NOBODY 🤐
Gypsies are also great liars, beside great thieves.
omfg?? this is definitely not talked about enough. TYSM, my grandmothers maiden surname is Romani and i've always felt the need to look into our history.
That was great! Well written, easy to follow. Much appreciated.
My grandfather was a Gypsy from Hungary who fled communism in the 50s~60s. I never had the chance to meet him but after seeing this video, I can imagine his life was hard.
When I lived and worked in Turkey teaching English I had two Turkish friends who (secretly) told me about thier Gypsy ancestry. One (college administrator) told me she was Bulgarian/Turkish/Gypsy because her grandparents were kicked out of Bulgaria in the early 1980s when Bulgaria was kicking out Muslims. She said her ancestral family were Gypsies in Bulgaria who converted to Islam in the 18th century, and became middle class working for Ottoman administrators until the World War 1. She could speak Turkish, Bulgarian, English, understood Kurdish, some Farsi and some Arabic. She had extended family members living in Bulgaria, Lebanon, Armenia, Germany and Turkey.
There's almost no one whose life wasn't hard during those times in this region...
Where is my scooter?
Same
So you are a gypsy yourself
As someone studying Tudor England, I must clarify that Gypsies were considered "vagrants" in Tudor England, which at the time was a big social issue for the country. Vagrants were unemployed people wandering the country for jobs, believed to be the cause of much of the crime and evil in the country. Initially gypsies were tolerated (despite having laws passed against them to leave or assimilate into English society) and were successful in jobs in entertainment, music, and arts. However, once the issue of vagrancy was seen as a national threat, gypsies were treated with much more fear and suspicion, and there was a belief that English born gypsies were simply pretending to be gypsies to avoid being considered a vagrant. The reason they were branded with a V and eventually put into slavery was because they were later seen as vagrants, wandering the country for work and crime, not just because they were gypsies.
I don't know much English history, but I thought the Magna Carta prohibited slavery? Wasn't that what started the anti-slavery movement in the 1700's?
@@andre3328 Also not much into English history but in most Western and Northern European countries, slavery was actually prohibited pretty early on in the Middle Ages, enslavement of foreign ethnicities, especially non-Christians and non-Europeans however was justified either by excluding them from the application of said prohibition, or by passing new laws allowing slavery of certain people. For example France abolished slavery in 1315, enslavement of blacks in the colonies was allowed in the 17th century and a "Code noir" was passed to regulate how it worked.
@@andre3328I thought slavery was abolished on the British Isles in 1805. It wasn’t abolished in their colonies until much later on, as in Australia and Canada indigenous peoples were sometimes used as slaves and Canada had a small population of Africans also used as slaves.
Racists RARELY do racoata acts just because of "race" even the mazis have ENTIRE books explaining the material reason to do what they did.
@@therealspeedwagon1451 The definition of what a slave is can change heavily depending on the era and country. Medieval serfs are not slaves and stand in the social class above slaves, yet if you would treat people today like a serf others would see you as a slave driver and you would be guilty of human traffacking.
that was really interesting! more so than I expected for this channel!
This is quality, man. Subscribing is a no-brainer.
I am romaniam working in UK. There are bulgarian and romanian gypsies working here and also indians. We discovered the count from 1 to 10 its identical in gypsy language with one of the languages spoken in India :D Although we knew gypsies come from India it was amazing to see gypsies kept their language over such a long time and with such acuracy.
I find it more amazing Indians kept their own indian language to be honest , they were attacked when the gypsy fled and was STILL under attack just 50 years ago going through colonization and Invasion. How are they still alive??
Yeah disgusting. Get out.
Even their flag is also resembles with Hindu religion and there fastival name 'Sara la kali ' is also same of indian god's name.. Sarala is a Hindu goddess and kali is the goddess of destruction in Hindu religion.
@@MHCE444Indians never forget their origins that's why after 800 years of Muslim rule and 200 of Christian rule India is still Hindu.
@@MHCE444 who were they under attack from 50 years ago?
This video remember me how much i was bullied by gypsies as a kid and teenager, every time someone ask them why they bully and hate me they said to im too chill and mind my own business too much for them to don't bully and beat me every time they see me.
Yup thats Middle school
Yup that’s gypsies
I my self was attacked 2 times by group off gypsies in my childhood for 0 reasons
@@dzonikg and let's not forget how the last year some gypsies killed a young driver and post it on Facebook and the whole community, what was already therorized by gypsies, wanted to kill them and the police from 3 counts hold them off enough for gypsies to escape and the commisar did everything posible to ignore the reporters.
@@idiotwithagun743 that was the whole school years from chinder garden to highschool.
Fantastic job, make more of these! You’re funny, smart and onto something here.
Just today there was a gypsy who was begging people for money on the street, a woman gave him a bagel but he refused and said he wanted money, once I met a gypsy who told me that he urgently needed money to get to -a part of the city and I didn't give him anything, and the next day the same gypsy comes with the same story only this time the name of the location was different, or if someone won money gambling, the gypsies follow you, beat you and take the money, very, very, VERY many incidents of this kind are known all over south-eastern Europe.
Never ever give them money. They have "begging" gangs. All the money goes to the big boss, .and they even mutilate the beggars, so people will be more likely to give them money
sometimes, here in germany, gypsys roam around my village and beg for money
Its amazing how you have gone from mainly a "balkan comedy" channel to a history/anthropology/geography channel!
My last name is gypsy from English to Polish, and my grandad escaped from Poland to the United Kingdom and flew in the RAF after losing his brother to the Nazis camps, still got family in Warsaw.
Cygan?
Very interesting!
How do y'all keep in touch after so long?
@@koriolakorni5041 yes
The facr that you still have family there makes you very lucky considering the horrors the Nazis inflicted and pretty much everyone else in Europe.
my school tried a DEI type program to give gypsies in poverty a chance to get a good education. out of the three kids, one girl left due to ostracism by her class, the other girl got pregnant at 16 and dropped out, and the guy couldn't pass his matura because he was too busy worling to support his single mom that he didn't have time to study
This explains a sudden surge of new students at my school in the early 90s. They were all gypsies and stated they came from Romania.
My mom used to threaten to sell us to the Gypsies. I thought it would be pretty cool like being in the circus.
LMAO 😂
Funny you said that .I read a book written by Roma woman and they used to say same thing to they kids ...
If you don't behave white gadjo will take you !
They'd come back and steal the money they paid for you.
they did it all. and thinking of their situation of life, it is naturally. If you don´t breed enough children you have to steal one or you have to buy one. and if you have a sick child you have to let in where you think it is looked after (and guess what we had such a child in our village, was left by zigeuners decades ago.)
@@cheguevara5560do you still remember name of the book?
Hey, gypsy here, so happy to see such a positive comment section, and thank you for the video on the history of a people I most of the time have to be ashamed of being part of
#jogilroy 🖐🏽 bless up chat fam! Sending luv from Harlem,Ny🙏🏽
❤💛💚... this video taught me a lot...The culture has always been so awesome 2 me... I've only seen on tv or in literature 💃🏽
@@artemisnectar7huh, I've only ever seen them in real life and it's always less than pleasant.
The magic of TV tho, right?
@@alclay8689 so true..have a bless nite🙏🏽❤
So I have a serious question for you. How do you feel about the term gypsy? You self identify that way. I'm curious because as a professional musician I see this coming up more and more when it related to the specific genre of "Gypsy Jazz." I get some people want do away with harmful words and be more sensitive, but this seems like one of those times when white people want to intervene in a performative way rather than actually caring what the people themselves thing.
I care a lot about this because black Americans really did have their own music (original jazz) sort of stolen and coopted by white people and then sort of white washed. That's my concern about Gypsy Jazz being relabeled as Jazz Manouche. I feel like in a way it robs the historical ownership of that style of music from the people even if that's not the intention behind it.
Obviously I feel like how a given people feel about the terms matter more than a bunch of well meaning white folks. You're just one person and no group is a monolith, but I'd really love your opinion on the topic since I just don't have access to a lot of people I can actually ask about their feelings on the terms Gypsy, Roma, Romani, and Jazz Manouche.
@@Yeargdribblethat’s our real name if you were to call an older person “romani🤓” or “roma🤓” or any of these stupid white ppl terms you’d be looked at weird we’re ghomano we’re gypsies
This is the first video I’ve seen from this channel, and I’m not sure if I’ve ever laughed this hard from a history video. Very well done!
Great video! A lot of questions answered! This video is full of information that people should know.
Funny story about gypsies in Bulgaria:
The government built a panel block only for the gypsies to have a place to live in. However, a few years later the gypsies had to be kicked out and the block demolished. Why? Because the gypsies took out so much of the metal in the reinforced concrete structure of the building that there was a real chance the building would collapse.
The thing is here I always see this happen even the building are In normal conditions sometimes all they need is to repaint the outside but many local governments wanna get rid of gypsies in the city so what they do is kick them out and demolish it then they cause slums on the outskirts to be made
@@popularentertainment7360 this was already on the outskirts of a small city so idk what you are talking about
@@ivo_picha I’m talking about similar cases
oh boy... yes, this happens in Romania too, but this is only half the story. The other half of the story is that more often than not, they don't have electricity, plumbing, etc. And the apartment is in the middle of nowhere. So what else can you do with such a shithole except tear out the metal from the reinforced concrete?
this sounds too insane for truth and is probably anti-gypsy propaganda. "hur dur gypsy so dum they even steal metal from their own houses"
J, this was probably your Magnus opus - well done! Here in Sweden 🇸🇪 there’s three kinds of gypsies: (1) old Swedish gypsy families who have probably been around since the 1800 or early 1900s; (2) Finnish gypsies who came here from Finland in the 1950/60s and (3) Romanian Gypsies who came here in the past ten years. The first are a mix of well integrated and criminals, the second are quite conspicuous due to distinct dress while the third are mainly begging outside grocery stores. To be honest, neither are generally seen as productive members of society.
There’s also a kind of Swedish travelers who are not an ethnic group but some kind of old social class. Don’t think they have anything to do with Roma.
We have "Travellers" in the UK, who are usually of Irish origin. As far as I know, they are distinct from Roma Gypsies, They are a plague on decent society. They go out of their way to be as antagonistic, anti-social, and obnoxious as possible. No one I know has ever had a positive interaction with Irish Travellers, they are despised, but they know how to play the system.
AFAIK the Travelers are just a much earlier wave.
They just integrated into society much better than subsequent waves. (They even got local names, and later on surnames).
_They absolutely do not want to be called Roma,_ even if some of them know a lanugae that is like Roma, just older.
Then there are the "Boat People" or "Boat Travelers", who were like Travelers, but on boats. (They are extinct now, as they settled, as the need for small scale logistics died with the container ships, and the automobil).
i think there's also those last kind in denmark. i saw a couple of them pushing a large cart during summer and they were wearing some badges on their vest/coat.
Romanis has been here in Sweden since the 1500's
Looks like CZcams didn't like my honest appraisal of Irish Travellers in the UK.
Lindsay Lohan saw a gypsy family in London and started saying random Arabic and Russian words insisting they come to her hotel room.
She is a known addict... probably thought they might sell her drugs.
Problem is - they never accepted the way of life even if people accepted them. They didn't want to get educated , never strived towards anything. Some did , but those numbers are meager.
If I allow you to stay on my land , you need to respect it and help me.
in America it’s not like that at all some of my friends went to school and we even call ourselves american gypsies i myself was homeschooled because my parents are old fashion but still got educated, i know gypsies in Europe are different though but i see America as my country and its values are my own along with my gyspy ones (also yes we call ourselves gypsies here we don’t really care about it)
This.
i don't have to help you, who are you to ask me to help you. the days of slavery are over. in a country where you live, you have to obey the laws and nothing else. why do you want to impose your way of life on other people?
only when you have experienced this history of persecution, enslavement and murder can you judge, but not before.
@@paulfrei4062 Because it is my country and my rules.
@@lovelife1867 you don't own the land and your rules are for you but no one else. The laws apply to everyone.
*hungary with a smug face leaning towards egypt*
- you're welcome
we also cursed india with this knowledge
Poor Indians tho. Most Indians I ve met are actually great people and they wre burdened with being associated with gypsies
Another story:
Rented a place in the Netherlands and never paid rent. When the landlord finally came to check he found they were gone, but the ENTIRE wooden floor and the wooden window frames were removed and burned in the fireplace.
And so many live in decrepit unfinished homes, mud and junk in the yard, but inside there is always the biggest flat TV with a satellite dish and a huge powerful music system. It's like part of the culture living like that.
It's like that with them everywhere. They don't have the need for anything else, just the most basic stuff, plus some entertainment, drugs and alcohol. They'll never be integrated into civilized societies because they have no intention of becoming civilized.
don't forget the mercedes outside
Two things can be true at once
@@iamtryingtopissyouoff.7729 It's not "two things", it's just that they're primitive hedonists with no culture or ambitions.
The French govern built them houses in Romania. In the next months the burned the windows and doors and the parquet. They they hosted their horses inside.
Very informative video , i had no idea how hard it was for those people. I always wondered why they remained on the outskirts of every place . Its a shame humans have to be so cruel to each other.
Anyhow , thx for the video, well done. ❤
Seriously, one of the best videos you have 100%
Funny how the Gypsies are almost never mentioned when talking about the Holocaust, in western countries. I have studied both in the USA and The Netherlands, at prestigious universities, and the Holocaust was brought up quite frequently (especially in the US) but the killing of the gypsies was straight up denied every time. For them, only the Jews died, and when I pointed out the it wasn't true, I was threatened by my professors. I grew up in Romania, surrounded by gypsies, in a poor neighborhood. They were, and will always be my friends, and seeing their history being erased by a specific group of people that I won't name, is frustrating as fuck.
Later edit: Even though half of you say that you learned about the Gypsy’s history with the Holocaust, most of you also agree that this history was barely mentioned, while the major focus was on the Jews. That’s the idea! It’s easy to “forget” about these people when that main focus is on the Jews. Agree with me or not, but most teachers choose to only speak about the sufferings of the Jews. At the end of the day, the Gypsy’s never use the Holocaust as an excuse to commit genocide…
As someone from the US, part of me would say it depends on what history book you're reading that'll mention who perished in the Holocaust. That said, I can't recall well if they mentioned them. Then again as I said, it was a history book for Americans and as far as I know, we don't have the same experience or level of knowledge compared to the rest of Europe such as Romania.
I remember a story about how a guy was on a European forum and mentioned how gypsies were frequent victims of the Holocaust, and then was banned for talking about the Nazis in a positive light
That's because in Eastern Europe, everyone wants the gypsies gone.
Idk I got my education in the US and they always mentioned Slavs and gypsies during talks about the Holocaust
Perhaps because there's few of them in those areas. Or maybe the (((History teacher))).
But Borat told me they were witches and wizards.
a bunch of them are into witchcraft
why ? because of the Jewish house scene ? XD
As a Gypsy he’s not wrong there are Gypsies that can do dark magic similar to voodoo hence why we were cursed in the bible because we originated from Cain however most gypsies are christian or muslim and follow the abrahamic God
Thank you from Romania! Best video on the subject yet!
As Romania was intentionally targeted (probably because Romania tends to not hide any historical documents from public domain, other than relating to the beneficiaries of communism that drove the nation to pre WW2 levels, mostly between years 1944 - 199X):
1. the roma's were not as desperately sought of in early Ottoman years as in the empire's more southern and eastern regions because there was a german presence especially in Transylvania (and trickled down over the Carpathians in time) that covered crafts. Vlad the Impaler's dad was even backed by a german knightly order (the order of the dragon, drachen, or known in romanian, drac, draculea). The nation got de-germanified by the 3rd Reich themselves, and most of the remaining communities left when the soviets came and later mass fled when the wall fell down.
2. the roma's were and still are basically a running circus and entertainers in short as partly described, taking mostly said jobs or menial work at courts and in the age of villages when towns were by their nature bleeding population and relied of people moving in to sustain themselves, is it that far fetched that like most ethnicities roma's were also in their own temporary village?
3. to this day Roma 'clan' system segregates themselves from the rest of the nation, often denouncing their own clan members when they do not adhere to the clan's dogma (differs from clan to clan, some allow education, mostly lawyers, hence another jew similarity :)
4. comparing roma's in Romania to the afrikan slave trade without saying the full story is beyond being ignorant or just prone to lapses in very bad faith. In short, in the Romanian Principalities everybody was a slave. The economy was agrarian still in the 20th century and unlike in 'western' Europe, less than the 1% owned land until starting with the mid 19th century. Peasants (iobagi) were part of the land and traded with the land unless they ran and brutality ensued if found and sent back. The only landowners were either given land from passing empires (mostly the Austrian) or like a special lottery to attract german craftsman for the most part. Since the days of the Eastern Roman Empire the biggest landowner was the Orthodox Church (since those times to today, the church authority is based on the same district distribution for the most part and a 'patriarch' is elected by the district rulers). Most of the rulers in history came from the church or were appointed by the ruling empire (be it Byzantium, Ottoman, Austria, Austro-Hungary, Poland [yes, for a while in the Kingdom of Moldova without burning down the kingdom every 4 years] and lastly Tzarist Russia [but that was by buying nobles and not militarily as they were late to the party]). The main opposition to land grants was the orthodox church and even campaigned against the war of independence and the forming of the little union in order not to loose the power it held in fragmented counties and kingdoms. It feared getting the sweedish treatment that it richly deserved. The orthodox church was pro WW2 because of communism and many priests went with the army to reintroduce christianity where they passed.
5. never knew roma's dodged islam as in Romania they are some of the most fanatically loyal orthodox followers, probably out of opportunism.
6. just for context, roma's have political representation and I know a handful of roma's that made mayor of major towns, some for 20 years.
i got robbed by a gypsie my friend got scammed by a gypsie and my friends almost got into a fight with a group of gypsies bc i gave him 20 czech crowns (about 1 euro) so my experiances with the gypsies have been pretty negative
I feel like everyone that speaks positively about Roma have never had to live near them and those who dislike them are the ones that live near them and are victimized by their actions.
@@ColoradoStreaming i dont care to be honest cause anyone from any nationality can hurt you
@@craftahyes, but there are criminal races, which is diffrent from individual criminals
@@stefthorman8548 what? the problem is how certain group is treated, ghettos are the problem
@@craftahsome of them are way more dangerous than others
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to make this video. It means so much to me that someone actually acknowledges our history. You made my day. Thank you so much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ajde sada nama pevaj radove pesmice
Marginalized groups deserve their voices to be heard. I hope one day governments start supporting romanis just as they had for many Jews and blacks
@@user-pi3ck9hd2xThank you. People like you make me feel like there's still hope.
@@user-pi3ck9hd2x Governments are already doing way too much. They literally just live off of welfare and take taxpayer money, while only take away from the community. Do not compare them to Jews, they can integrate very well and have impressive work ethic.
My grandfather was a gypsy from eastern Europe who left the gypsy life and at the age of 18 , he sailed by himself across the Atlantic and arrived at Ellis island in the 1800 s ..He was fluent in several languages and was a interpreter for immigrants who had to navigate through the justice system...I remember asking him about gypsies and their occupations...He described his life and family as "Tinker's " that sold things from horses drawn wagon...He was reluctant to describe his family life and life except for saying that gypsies were not just "Roma "but a lifestyle of staying one step ahead of the authority.
This was a fair assessment, good work
I am Romanian and yes... they ate my ham church ;(((
i am from serbia, and i can also confirm, they done ate my cheese church too😢
Yessss I’ve been looking for a video on Roma peoples for a while. In the US, the exposure we get to this culture is “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding” or a “Bohemian” store in the mall run by a white woman with unfortunate dreadlocks…
Theres white gypsies
If you're into that, watch the film "Black cat, White cat" to get a feel for gypsy culture.
I don't know about their culture but what I see everyday is Gypsy parents putting their little kids as beggars in the streets from an incredibly early age, and they themselves are either beggars or they "clean" (usually muddy water) your windshield focrefully and then ask for payment. The irony being they usually have enough money to buy trucks and phones and other modern day luxuries but they still choose to be beggars instead of educating their kids or entering the workforce.
Great movie ❤️ @@poonczey
how are unfortunated? do they just happen at random?
Thank you! Very well put together video! By far most comprehensive set of information regarding the resilient Romani.
We had some 'Cygań' stay at the hotel last week. It was mayhem. One broke the glass juice dispenser (apparently walking into it while looking at his cellphone), and didn't even say sorry to the hotel staff who had to clean it up. The families took up 4 tables at the restaurant just to drink tea for 5 hours, while their kids rode around on skateboards disturbing those who wanted to eat, and their teenagers - doused in cologne, so you could'nt taste or smell your food - played music on their phones above the ambient restaurant music. Needless to say the hotel staff were happy they left after one week. Not all cultures are equal.
And not All “cygan” are the same every family is different just like your own groups 🤯
Agree, they cant behave
@@popularentertainment7360 But you see, every group is a monolith except the one me and my friends belong to! I am very intelligent. /s
Whichever culture that raised a racist pig like you must be one of the inferior ones, then.
Just to add, as a Romanian: the Gypsy culture has a deep understandable embedded resistance to integration. The programs that aim at integrating them often receive backlash and straight up rejection by many Gypsy communities. This includes housing and schooling. This has been true even during the communist years when they would be given free apartments but chose to live outside of them in tents.
While social programs have been lacking in many ways during the decades, I wanted to point out that a will for integration by them must indisputably exist from within, otherwise the programs simply won't work. You can throw more programs and funds at this issue, but a reform from within would be much smarter. Selling your children or throwing them out on the streets to beg instead of accepting schooling will never be acceptable in any western society. If you'll counter this by saying they don't do it because of racism, I can show you many examples where the kids that went through school grew up into very successful adults. Heck, my dear desk mate from high school was one, and he has a wonderful IT career now. But at the same time there are much more examples of kids being taken out of school by their families for no good reason (except things like "f that, you'll go west and steal and buy yourself a Mercedes in a few months").
You can understand their cynical view given their history, but at some point you must accept the goods that a reformed society provides you in the place that you want to attempt to settle.
I honestly feel bad for them because their distrust does make sense, but western society has changed but they refuse to change their nomadic lifestyle. Unless these governments give an apology or smth that will show them they changed I doubt they will ever trust them.
@@solis1171 what f'en apology? go back to india. im amazed they didn't get slaughtered going thru anatolia and arriving in the balkans. just another mess that the turks caused.. if the ottomans lost some battles instead of winning them, guaranteed there wouldn't be a single gypsy in europe today
Go west and steal ? You are ignorant and wrong.
The government needs to force them to integrate honestly
Agreed, where I live the government has made a lot of programs and funds to help them, a lot of times they have more rights than our own countrymen but they still choose the wrong path. I know countless friends who've been robbed and beaten by them, very rarely a friendship with a gypsy will go well if they have something to gain from you. I learned time and time again that most of them are like animals trying to survive and will do whatever it takes to have their way. It's fucking sad man. They're culture needs to change
Gypsies fled the Balkans to Transylvania & Hungary in multiple waves. They largely lived free as roaming traders, craftsmen and vagrants until empress Maria Theresa tried to forcibly settle them, at which point they became serfs. This was generally percieved as social progress at the time, but it arguably did little to improve their lives. It was better than being a slave in Wallachia or Moldova, but integration into existing communities didn't really work and it just added resentment on top of prejudice. Fun fact: lots of gypsies around Brasov speak Hungarian as a primary language but are still Orthodox - a testament to the A-H school system that semi-successfully integrated them, and a clear sign that the largely Protestant communities is the area never really accepted them. Also, you left out a MAJOR European issue: they were forcibly sterilized in Sweden as late as the early '70s.
Based sweden
This is might be one of the many reasons Hungarians have problem with Romanians...
@@justhair17 how are romanians to blame for gypsies in hungary?
" integration into existing communities didn't really work" - it's hard to integrate people who don't wanna be integrated.
@@NuSuntSerbNever lose your stench🤢
I came here for the memes and I ended up being educated, a testament of the quality of the channel 😌
I made an IB in Germany and the existence of Romani people was never mentioned in my education, besides in one sub paragraph about the Holocaust in history class. Thanks for filling this gap
Thank you very much. I am a romanian, I never knew they had such rich but sad history, this wasn't learned in any history class. I heard from a older gipsy that some of their traditions (like marrying when they are still children) were this way to avoid their young girls being "taken" by their masters, by I thought this was in the medieval times, I never knew they were slaves until recent time
According to newer research, the reasons the Roma left India seems to be more complicated than them just being refugees from the war (which might've played a part in some way still). There seems to have been a few waves of immigration from the sub-continent during a much longer period than initially believed. The Roma are one of several groups that left.
These migrations seems to have alot to do with the Indian caste system. In this system you are born to do a certain job and you are NOT allowed to quit it (by religious decree). So when economic demand for your services dries up, you basically have to starve or leave the country. Many caste groups had became quite economically niche by the Medieval period - there were at some areas a local "drum player caste" which didn't turn out to be economically feasible. And this was the case for many other castes which over time devolved into poverty and outsider status.
And this might be an explanation for why some of these groups departed as a whole group. They were looking for new jobs! The Roma left, but still behaved like an Indian caste group, and kept it to themselves. You can't marry outside the group or have much contact with outsiders except work and trade.
Another group that migrated is the diverse Dom people which is a similar ethnic group to the Roma, but they migrated much earlier than the Roma and settled in the Middle East. The Dom all clearly come from an ancient Indian caste of musicians - the Dom caste. In central Europe you have the Sinti which are very similar to Roma but are still considered to be a separate group and probably have another geographical origin (in Sindh, present day Pakistan, and not Punjab).
You should look into the history of Cants/Argots/Anti-Language. Many are clearly ancient, and seem to be related to profession/trade. For example, Gumuțeasca, spoken in Margau, Romania, a secret language for traditional glass workers. Or Xíriga, a Spanish secret language for people who work with brick and clay in Asturias Spain. A lot of Europe’s documented Cants/Argots seem to be from the Balkan region, and the various Roma languages such as Southern Vlax seem to be linked to this tradition of secret trade/merchant anti-languages.
Another thing to consider, is the growing evidence of contact between the Aegean and the Indus River Valley civilization as far back as 2000 BCE. The Blue monkey fresco excavated at Santorini has been identified as probable Hanuman Langurs from India. Both had indoor plumbing that was either unusually advanced for their time, or we need to reconsider how widespread that level of plumbing tech actually was.
Next, the Lycian/Antalya region of Turkey. You have the Lycian free-standing barrel vault tombs, such as the Tomb of Payava (many of these tombs exist in the region) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Payava. They share an uncanny similarity with architecture found at the Ajanta caves in Northwest India. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajanta_Caves
Then there is the Lycian rock cut tombs, such as at Myra and Telmessos which again, share a lot of similarities with Ajanta. The later Hittites had a city in the region called Hinduwa, later called Kandyba by the Greeks, near Çataloluk today. The name can be a coincidence, but I think it is more likely that it is a reference and clue to the people living in Lycia/Antalya region based on the other evidence taken in at the macro level.
I have been playing with the idea that the origins of the Roma might have been linked to this speculative Indus connection with the Minoans through this trade network and is much older then the later medieval origin. (and this is highly speculative, this should not be taken seriously. It is merely a mental exercise to establish the limits of what is possible). What if there existed a rich merchant class of Indus valley people living in the Aegean, especially on Thera, similar in function to the later Athenian Metic class? What happens to all of those people when they have to abandon Thera and other nearby islands due to the coming eruption? The mythical Greek Telchines (known for their magic and metal working) left their island home due to some an impending doom. The Telchines are associated with Rhodes/Kos/Lycia which is very close to or in Antalya Turkey. The excavations at Akrotiri on Thera show that the people left before the eruption, which meant they had to go somewhere as refugees. It would make sense they would go to lands familiar/friendly to them. Bring on the follow on Mycenaean ascendency, the Bronze Age Collapse, and the Dorian invasions, then it is realistic to imagine that you have some Indus Valley “Metic” refugees who never quite land on their feet. Especially if they belonged to a smaller subset of a ruling/priestly upper caste who have no useful work trades to bring to their new homes/new rulers. The former servants would merge into the local populous as metalworkers, brickmakers, (whatever trade good they specialized in for their original economic enterprise) while the upper caste refugees would either have to humble/lower themselves and learn a useful trade, or expect to continue to live off the their former servants in a type of shadow culture as a parasitical crime lord.
This of course opens up the very far fetched and very unlikely possibility that Rome was in fact founded by very ancient Roma people who DID land on their feet somewhere. We know the Romans get their name from their city, but where did the city get it’s name? This would, of course, be very ironic for the modern day Romanians.
Again, just a fun mental exploration at this point.
Interesting. I'd never connect Romani culture to indoor plumbing 😂. People seem to have been in several castes. One caste was called cauldron menders. They were copper smiths and connected to certain magical practices. A lot of superstition connected to gipsies, fortunetelling, evolution of tarot cards and so on. Fact remains these gipsies didn't catch up with the modern world. Nobody needs copper mending. Nor copper thieves. Discrimination is real, but a lot is just pulling out decks full of victim cards. I've met Sinti people that hated to be associated with Romani. Pointed out they don't wear traditional clothes, neither speak the language, they're just beggars and criminals.
This was my thoughts too!
Caste system is almost why many "lower caste" south asians (Bengalis for example) converted to islam as well and why most higher caste Indians stayed as hindus since they had it the best
@@DataBeingCollectedthis comment deserves to be at the top
A great summary, thank you. Love the background music too.
I’m going to leave a comment, and hope it doesn’t get stolen
As someone who speaks Spanish, I knew they were mistakenly thought to originate from Egypt because of “gitano”, but knew they originated from India because I’m also a geography nerd & watch & seen videos of them doing DNA ancestry tests that show their origins. BUT I had no idea they were enslaved. SMH it makes sense now why they’re still discriminated against
Don't we discriminate them because their awful behaviours?
@@kurosu-samaklipleri7090 the enslavement is what caused the awful behavior to begin with
@@badiuconstantin my neighbours decided to commit crimes willingly. Don't excuse it.
@@badiuconstantinNope. We did not enslave them in hungary. They turned to crime because their nomadic lifestyle and the small jobs with them died out
Enslaved by Muslims sold hundreds of years later to Christians.
As a romani person thank you so much for preparing this video about our history 🙏 it is really accurate
Always stealing
like your uncle stole your virginity@@mynameisdominichughes3142
@@mynameisdominichughes3142grow up
@@mynameisdominichughes3142 yeah bro, i may as well steal your ip address so watch out
@@mynameisdominichughes3142 You're like 10, does mommy know you are posting on the Internet?
Thank you for your information as is the first time I hear a really interesting article about the Gypsy or Roma people in Europe. In Balkan and Northern Greece we have an active vibrant community,the difference is they language is completely strange and like to live isolated some of them from the rest of local community.
Some in resend years managing well to educate their children and integrate properly in the society. Some are have problems with the legal system that they don't understand still, neither us in this case but still trying to avoid troubles with local authorities as seams they closing eyes and mouths there when they need to talk. Anyway we thank you for the effort to give us an Idea where they come from.
These history videos are cool, you should make more!
In my city there's a yearly event, some kind of cultureal festival in which countries and cultures from all around the world get to participate in food stands with their local cuisine, shows and other activities. The gypsies wanted to be a part of it but they were rejected so they casted a curse on the whole event. From that day several years onward the event was always cancelled by rain. Those mfs are not to be played with.
In Sri Lanka, we too have gypsies called rodi, they are alleged to be practitioners of magic, although I don't know how true that is.
@@ej4458probably not very as magic isn't real 😊
@@rosalind1635casting a curse on your bloodline rn
@@ej4458 Would be pretty overpowered if it were real...
@@rosalind1635 I wouldn’t say that what if it’s real
I have noticed the the background music played is actually South Albanian Song from City of Permeti, check it out how similar it is.
Polish man here, my city has had a strong presence of gypsies for at least last 100 years, they still make pretty popular singing festivals ever so often.
I remember in secondary school there was a Romanian Gypsy in our class and we used to just give this guy hell for no reason other than he was a gypsy and was a bit strange to our western worldview. He left school after three years and it took me three more years after that to realise the horrible bullying we had done to the guy. I remember he said, after we called him a gypsy in a slur kind of a way, that he was proud to be a gypsy and we all laughed but truly he was dead right in being proud.
Maybe a year after realising I had done terrible wrong by him I ran into him just by chance and he recognised me. The first few things I said to him was that I was sorry for what we did and this guy just would not allow me to say sorry he was like “ahhh it’s okay bro stop it’s alright don’t be sorry” and it really changed my entire perspective of himself and Romani people as a whole. He was a normal guy like us and we tortured him for it. I’ll never forget him. His name was Petre or something similar but we all called him Peter because we were westoids.
Nah you were right. You are natives , he was a settler.
@@constantinethecataphract5949 what are you talking about
A cute anecdote, but the majority of them still don't want to integrate, so who cares. Better the natives bullying them than the other way around - which is how it usually goes...
He's probably in jail now anyway, good to not be associated with such
@@Deni-nl1ce big talk for a fella with a “fix your posture in 5 minutes” video on a playlist. Why don’t you go outside and stand up straight rather than be racist online? ;)
the eu4 theme tells me you are a man of culture
The backgroud music made my tadpole tingle
Interesting! My dad told me once that when he was a kid in Mexico, the “húngaros” (Hungarians) would roll into their village and put on shows or movies with a projector. The whole village would go be entertained, but when they got home they would find out their homes were broken into and robbed. He said every time they rolled in it would happen. I asked him why they would let it happen again after the first time? He just said they put on a good show. 😂 I often wonder if they were Gypsies of Hungarian origin or what.
I personally have acquired an appreciation of Gypsy culture because of my liking of flamenco music. Their music in general is very good. If anyone wants to explore the origins and possible journey of gypsies from India to Europe by means of a wild musical ride, check out the movie Latcho Drom.
A few years ago i heared a story at radio told by a old gypsie who told how on the trains they where beaten, barely feed and abused starting to hold the deads to count and be given more food and many times cannibalise each other until the germans where raided by romanians who lost many soldiers on the road touards gypsies who they where send to save, and the old gypsie could control his emotions and started to cry at the end of the story.
Romanian soldiers saved gjypsies from being sent to German death camps by fighting Germans? Was it after Germany surrendered? Romanians were on the Axis side. Everything I’ve read said that Romanians gladly handed over the local gjypsies to the baddies.
@@Hajde_budallaRomania changed sides in 1944, 23rd of August so it is possible.
@@vladleustean1638stupid r*mania always betraying everyone
@@Hajde_budalla Probably guerilla resistance fighters.
There is 0 records or evidence of romanian operations made specifically to "save gypsies", it was likely nothing more than a coinincidence as romania switched to fight for the allies nearing the end if ww2. 95% of romanian's time in ww2 was spent helping germany
Svaka ti čast na videu. Making this video took guts and I'm sure whatever hate comes your way because of it, you'll dust it off. I remember in school history classes being told gypsies were mass murdered in Nazi concentration camps, but we never got to learn their history, or what they have been through as a people. Thank you for making this video and I hope a lot more people get to see it. Thank you.
Why would we be taught about it? I don’t mean it in a sarcastic way but most Balkans, at best, were taught about what happened to their people. I’m sure your school didn’t spend much time on what happened to the people in your neighboring countries, why would the focus be on a group of people that was terrorizing as much as anyone else?
@@trashm.1426 we were taught about Jews and what happened to them. We were taught about our own people too. And since Roma are a recognized minority and endured the hardships, maybe not in our midst, but from those of our neighbors, why wouldn't we be taught about them? One of the reasons Roma suffer so much racism and prejudice in the Balkans is because we only know them for their criminal behavior and for being buyers of old things. If we knew more about them and understood them, there would be less racism and prejudice.
@@trashm.1426 Being uneducated about the world leads to poor judgment. Poor judgment often leads to horrible things. It's an important precautionary measure. To prevent what we saw in the past, to prevent new tragedies.
@@mr.overthink2179 noone is stopping you from educating yourself on a topic in your own free time, it is however absurd to expect to learn every single thing about this world in the 4 years of history class that we get (talking about high school obviously). In school we learn about the events that had the biggest impact on the world, the lectures are supposed to lay the base that we can build upon in our own time. If someone sat through all the lectures about the 2WW and hasn’t yet come to the conclusion that we shouldn’t persecute groups of people based on race, nationality or their proclivity to committing crimes (obvious joke about a stereotype), then I hate to break it to you, but learning about the struggles of gypsies isn’t going to make them see the light
Right, I too never knew about the extent of slavery that existed, I just heard a sentence once "Gypsies were slaves in Romania" - but I didn't knew they were slaves for so long and suffered exactly like blacks in US.
I have zero connection to the Roma but man I have a lot more respect for them after this video. I never knew anything about them really.
Its wild how little education there is about this...im 40 and just hearing about this now
Wow, this was very well made and very in depth, and as an Indian, I'd add something that i have observed here. There are still nomadic people around the northern states, called Banjaras, and eastern parts called Bede people who occupy a similar demographic in India. They are heavily persecuted against, and so they adopt very similar traits like the Roma. Though in last 50 years there have been active efforts to recognise their culture and integrate them in society, the prejudice in peoples mind remains a big obstacle. They are a hot tourist attraction though, since they got government recognition and support and they are actually pulling in some decent money from tourism in a legitimate way.
The origins of their nomadism might be the same as what made Romani a "nomadic people". I work in a Romani neighbourhood and know a lot of them very well, and they'll explain if they trust you well enough, that they only became nomadic (and take it up again) out of necessity. The wars that originally ravaged Pakistan and northwest India seem to have displaced a sea of people and some just remained in the general area stuck in a loop, while others ended up scattered all over the world.
In reality, here in the Balkans, the Romani who managed to acquire their own living space, jobs and integrated to any degree are seen as hugely succesful, and bit of an aristocracy who "made it", while the ones who are still lets say "vagrant" to some degree are seen as either unfortunate, unsucesful, an underclass within Romani society or a disgrace.
The ones who stick to not taking root take the view that dasine/geje ("non-romani" or "white people") will never let a person of color integrate and that anyone settling and enjoying any success of this sort will regret it when the next genocidal wave takes over the pale lunatics around them. You can see where they're coming from, too.
That's facinating. I was wondering if there was any overlap with the history of the word that translates into dont touch with the untouchables of the caste system in India. Would the Banjaras or the Bede be in that caste? ( If the caste system is in that reigon? Or if the caste system or the term untouchables even go back to the time in history that the roma left?) -Please forgive my ignorance I'm unfamiliar with Indian history.
Look at 22:10 , in the photo the child’s ID has his Fam name as Bihari . Bihar is a state in today’s India
@@user-gt3yz4tb8g Yes they were part of one of the untouchable low caste nomadic groups
@@cikalujo
I agree they should be deported it's clear that native Europeans and these proto third world migrants, can't coexist..
Lmaoo I am a gypsy and I didn't even know most of these things myself. None the less I am proud to be one, there's no shame in it what so ever. It's only shameful how some gypsy's behave but man.. after listening to all of this, the gypsy's smallest problem was how to raise their kids in order to behave, which goes on even today sadly.
Gypsy here too. Yeah I agree. Our behavior of distrust towards authorities is the natural consequence of our history, but it's high time we change our culture to the better and fight systematic oppression by joining society
@@juannaym8488the blame is split, racism and poverty is a big reason why they are not integrated in a lot of countries. People should be more empathetic
Tell your kind to be more hygienic
Bro I feel you the 99% really destroy the reputation of the 1% ❤
I would say that it's the opposite. A small percent destroy the reputation of the majority -- as it is with many other cultures that get a bad rap because of a few bad apples. @@Deni-nl1ce
Thanks for the vid, I never knew this about the history of my people.
I’m of Hungarian ancestry and my aunt did a DNA test and said we’re Romani. My great great grandmother was an immigrant to Hungary from the Middle East. Not much is none or remembered about her from my family that I speak with, but my great great grandmother supposedly had astrological symbols on her birth certificate which was not common practice in Hungary at the time. Hard to say what is true or not, but I wanted to research some about the Romani people. It makes more sense now because some of my family would say we were gypsies, but having grown up in the US, I never took them seriously and just assumed we were Hungarian immigrants to US. I am US citizen to clarify, I meant my ancestors from Hungary (my great grandmother). I speak very little Hungarian and the cultural ties have been swallowed by the American corporate machine lol… thanks for the informative video! Szia, jó napot kívánok! :)
Nobody will deny the enslavement of gypsies in the romanian principalities but saying they "PROSPERED" from the slave labour is straight up wrong. The lands under direct ottoman control were better economically with less slave labour, romanian principalities were the poorest of all the lands in the european part of the ottoman empire, dont make it sound we were making bank like the confederacy did. You could say the nobility of these prinicipalities was making some profit but as a whole they poorer than serbia or bulgaria.
they were 0.something% of the population in the romanian principalities so yeah, the claim is pretty ridiculous. The dude is confusing US slavery with gipsi slavery hard.
Not even the CSA did compared to the North Lmao.
@@AntoniuDraculea this channel is run by some lefti serbian, what do you expect? he is also good friends with this t4rd from georgia, always larping about sjw stuff and so on and so forth, he also conviently ignored why gypsies were specifically targeted the way they were. other nomadic groups, even moral enemies like the huns and avars didn't meet such a faith, why? because they actually contributed to the places they settled in and adjusted.
Not even the confederacy were making bank cause most slaves belonged to rich people who stayed rich post civil war compared to the average person who was already poor if not getting poorer not to mention the deep south region being plagued by natural disasters hence why till this day the infrastructure continues to fall apart which makes alot of people move from the region
@@slXD100also even the tatars were integrated well into lithuania and Poland despite being nomads
Thank you SO much for making such a video. It is insane to me how much we don't learn about the gypsies's history at school, and I have found myself learning so much from your video.
Congrats on the clever, humorous narration by a real person
and entertaining images. Refreshingly different from other videos using AI clips and AI narration.
im romanian and i went to romania and the amount of gypsy hate i heard from my fam was crazy
Wait ?? Romanians are Gypsies no ???