the ethics of Baby Reindeer
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- I finally watched Baby Reindeer. As a therapist, a lot of you were keen for me to make a psychological analysis but I think it's better to look at this from an ethical point of view. What does the show teach and what are the positives and the negatives of its reaction?
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
03:59 Martha
11:00 Donny
15:49 Reaction
MUSIC (in order, though some songs repeat later on)
Kupla - Never Forget
Calme - Ever So Blue
Jonny Easton - Aurora
Alan Ellis - Sea Terms
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#babyreindeer #richardgadd #analysis - Krátké a kreslené filmy
IMPORTANT ADDITION!!
Fiona was in fact not convicted, that moment in the show was invented for a fitting conclusion, which makes sense but also does raise ethical issues in itself. Whilst Fiona almost certainly (allegedly) did the behaviour depicted in the show, I can see changes like this making it very possible to sue Netflix because Fiona is in fact not a convicted stalker. There are certain ethical questions when you say "this is a true story" rather than just "based on a true story" only to then change certain aspects. So I wanted to just add that thought. I watched the show all in one day, then made the video the next morning, so it was a little rushed but I'm still mostly happy with it...apart from the couple of times I called him Robert Gadd, instead of Richard.
Gadd also admitted that she wasn't physically violent with him....
Correction: there's no evidence that she was convicted, we are going off her word in that respect
@@miss1of2 we only have Richard Gadd’s Vermont of events .
@@LemonSteNo . It is fact
@@miss1of2Damn that is so defamatory. In the show they portray her not only as a convicted criminal but a convicted criminal that has done time in prison. I hope she gets a huge pay from Netflix and Gadd.
Not only does this show talk about male SA (which has been woefully neglected in media), but it brilliantly dismantled the idea of the "perfect victim". And it doesn't end with him being healed. We see that healing is going to be a long, difficult, painful process.
He is brilliant getting "nude" about the damage after both abuses. I am a survivor of SA and he was way more sincere than " I will destroy you" as she was in negation most of the narration. He was sincere confronting his bizarre behaviour. Sooo brave.
Some viewers might misconstrue the ending scene as Donny becoming a stalker himself to the sympathetic barman. But in my opinion, it's there to show that Donny didn't lead Martha on, and was only trying to show her a bit of kindness when she was down on her luck. Unfortunately, that's when things spiraled out of control.
BRO I SEE U EVERYWHERE.
LIKE EVERY WEEK I SEE U IN A COMMENT SECTION AND I REMEMBER U BC U HAVE THE ADDAMS FAMILY PFP
I think for me, it's a moment where he realizes just how easy it would be to reach out of that vulnerable moment and hook your claws into someone else for stability
i thought the same!
I disagree . He could have nipped it in the bud but continued engaging with her Fiordland his use and needs
Here's the opinion of someone who has been stalked twice, to the point of going to the police. Essentially, it doesn't matter if stalking is malicious and deliberate, or needy and emotional. When you're a target, it is frightening and draining. You're in a constant state of tension. Once they fixate on you, you are responsible, in their minds, for them and everything that they do. Stalkers love attention, any attention, and interviews like Piers Morgan just throw gasoline on their fires.
An honest discussion, let alone coming forward, is difficult, partly because there's no such thing as a "perfect" victim. You're haunted by the thought: what did I do to provoke this? It gives you the illusion of control. Everyone thinks they know what THEY would do in this situation -- until it happens to them. YES, I told them to leave me alone, and did this, that, and the other of your helpful suggestions. But this is not a rational situation, where if you do certain things, everything will be fine.
@Michscott123 what a miserable life you are lving ...
@Michscott123 I know you'll disagree, Mich, but you're not exactly proving me wrong.
@Michscott123Men who cheat don't typically tell their wives. Weird that you think that absolves stalking behaviour.
Right. And especially if they are in an altered state like a bipolar episode or psychosis episode. One of my first psych professors once told us "you cannot persuade someone with simple reason that is in an altered state. You have to give the situation the benefit of more nuance in order to address it. Polite words and practicality don't wash an imbalance away."
My ex just called me on no caller ID 49 times the other day. No amount of me telling him to leave me alone is going to get him to leave me alone. Changing my phone number
I was blown away by how good this was and how raw it was in showing Richard's/Donnie's emotions. One thing I really appreciated about the ending is how it showed that Donnie (and probably by extension Richard) is still processing all of this. There is no magic "okay, I'm all better now" moment. This sort of trauma takes years to process and learn how to manage.
I have such high respect for Richard Gadd. He had to reenact his harrowing real life experience of being stalked, as well as his brutal sexual assault. I hope that his PTSD wasn't triggered, and that there were plenty of emotional support counsellors on the set.
It was probably more therapeutic than triggering, in an odd sorta way.
He didn’t “have” to reinact anything- he could have cast someone else to play him. he could have never written it to begin with. i really enjoyed the show, but just making that point.
@@steelethesceneWell said 👍
As much as there is a question mark over the validity of the story regarding Fiona/Martha..
Is there still not the chance his S.A story is equally fabricated to some extent.
As soon as I heard the actor was also the writer and director and it was meant to be a true story I made an off hand comment about it all probably being over exaggerated. I’ve met many budding actors and they would all kill their granny for a big break.
It seems like a huge red flag to me that a victim of S.A would want to replay the event for an acting role, and we shouldn’t forget we live in a current climate where he would have known it would have brought some positive attention in return.
I have no doubt he is a great actor, writer and director, but if it turned out that all the gripping elements of that story were vastly overstated or twisted beyond the truth I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
Didnt have to. Wrote directed and played himself....control freak!
I experienced a colleague beginning to stalk me after I had showed him kindness when I saw his struggles in life. Thankfully I knew the warning signs and acted as soon as he crossed the line bringing it to the attention of our workplace. After that experience and feeling manipulated into feeling sorry for this guy to get what he wanted I don’t have a whole lot of concerns about then Piers Morgan interview. I feel really sorry that she seems to live in poverty as no one should have to live that way but to me the interview was her wanting attention and wanting to control the narrative - triggering my memories of my stalker.
Cool story.
I don't disagree that Fiona's motives for an interview weren't positive. She showed she isn't in a place where she's capable of talking openly and honestly (and even then I'd have concerns) but I also don't think she deserves to be made a laughing stock. I don't think that helps anybody
@@mindlander Cool story??
@@beetlegeuse1961 were you expecting therapy?
@@mindlanderyou should seek some therapy. Be well.
I felt so seen when Donny starts doing shameful things after his traumatic events. It made me feel less like crap about myself over the things I’ve done from my own trauma. What he was doing made me feel normal such as questioning his sexuality and becoming attracted to his stalker. It’s very hard to make out your reality and it disrupts everything!!!
Yup, that episode almost felt therapeutic in its honest depiction of how many sa survivors deal with their reality and confusion and hurt
I cried, I felt seen, it helped give me grace for a point and time in my life I loathe to think about, it honestly helped me heal a little bit
I know there is a lot of questioning of sexuality by victims of same-sex rape, but I felt it fell a bit over into the gay fantasy of "converting" a straight by rape.
It's sad how they laughed and called him names. It angered me when they wouldn't let him join in on the other reindeer games.
I mean he did have a red nose tbf
It's fiction, written by him, lol
How pithy.
@@Globaldave1970 you missed out on this one didn’t cha?
Definitely agree with a lot of your points, especially about Piers exploiting the situation further and turning everything into a spectacle. However, I must admit I watched the interview and it's quite clear that she does have some form of dangerous personality disorder, along with possible comorbidities which is sad in itself.
And yes Gadd/Netflix failed in their duty of care but in their defense they might have simply underestimated just how popular the show would become. It's difficult to predict these things until a show actually airs and Gadd/Netflix never encouraged anyone to become detectives. It's clear that Fiona is dangerous/has some kind of personality disorder so approaching her before the show's making probably wasn't wise.
The conviction is a grey area because Gadd's stated that never happened. In the credits of episode 7 it does say "based on a true story" but it's hard to miss. Netflix misled audiences to lure in viewers. It's likely Fiona might still have grounds to sue for defamation but Netflix will probably just settle because...it's Netflix.
Also, it's painfully clear that Gadd has both PTSD/CPTSD as all of his interactions with Martha/Fiona made very clear. Shame and low self-esteem are just two of the symptoms.
This show made me realise that I’ve bought a dog the exact same as my childhood teddy bear and I even subconsciously named him Freddy because it rhymes with teddy
When I was watching the show, I kept thinking the "real villains" were the police (for not taking Donny seriously) and the whole criminal justice system and healthcare for not having stepped in with more help for Martha. Especially since (in the show) she'd been to prison for stalking. For me it's a critique of a capitalistic society with the focus on the wrong things (punishing vs helping/rehabilitating). The Piers Morgan interview just brings that critique strong into the real world for me. It's absolutely wrong what Piers did imo.
Social Marxist Spotted ⚠️🚨📢
whats the link between a capitalistic society and a puntive vs. rehabilitative prison system?
@@mikeelliott886 The prison industrial complex?
@@mikeelliott886how about prisons run by corporations with little to no government oversight?
@@PariahQuail not true haha
As you say the characters are grey. I think it's ok to ascribe some blame to Donny, because he did some bad things. Especially in his relationship with Terry. By not even indicating a little of what were his issues his silence became a form of abuse. Allowing her to believe she was the problem. Sending her into a depression. He's also highly manipulative towards her and his ex and her family. He doesn't appreciate the help he's receiving from those around him. The scene in the kitchen after the son has died where he very much looks like an interloper rather than offering anyone else comfort or support. Yes, we can say it's his trauma and his shame and it's not malicious but at the same time recognise the effect it has on those who are giving to him and trying to care for him.
I think the relationship with Darrian is so tricky. I think there is a space to be critical of his choices and the motivations of his choices without it turning into victim blaming. But it's a very fine line.
I noticed his ex and Terry were both women of color AND most importantly, therapists. Terry was a therapist and I think Keely went to school for it but was working a different job. Donnie definitely had a type, not saying I blame him for his trauma but he would date women that made him feel safe and cared for but be emotionally unavailable to them.
@@distort10nat least in the show, keeley was in acting school with Donny
I think it's very important to recognise his behaviours and understand how all dynamics are two-way to some extent and understanding all of it is important to process, however it's not about blame and certainly not about shaming himself the way he does. There's a difference between "I was in a vulnerable place where my own behaviours worsened my situation" and "I am an awful person who wanted these things to happen, and I deserve to hate myself for that"
@@mylittlethoughttreeI like the way you said writing off Martha as crazy doesn’t leave room to resolve anything -or words to that effect -there’s so much confusion and mental illness it’s not ok to just lock people up and not validate the what brought them to this moment. I think there are evil people in the world but for these two and so many others it’s shades of grey, being abusive at times doesn’t make you a terrible person especially when it’s coming from fear and trauma that’s been passed on to you. We need to progress as a society and it’s encouraging to see people exploring mental health with more information available now.
Thank you for the editing choices to keep this watchable for those of us with PTSD ❤
I knew her thirty years ago and she fastened onto a friend of mine who lived in a the same house with let rooms in Edinburgh when i was a student. He became extremely frightened by her obsessive behaviour and she even threatened me with things when i tried to tell her the truth about the situation. She has obviously repeated this behaviour throughout her life sadly .
I highly encourage reaching out to that friend to reach out to news outlets about her behavior.
The more people that speak about her behavior the less she can manufacture the story
Jeffrey yes we should all pile on. Persecute the heretic.
Do you seriously think that people are taking Fiona/Martha's account seriously?
@@Samuel-hd3cpI’m wondering why your protecting a psychopathic, dangerous and mentally ill deranged stalker 🤔
I am currently training to become a counsellor and as counselling and therapy are so interlinked, I just wanted to express how grateful I am to hear you, as a therapist, talk about the hard questions regarding ethics. Thank you so much for that and for helping me understand complicated situations better!
*Richard Gadd - sorry I couldn’t help it!
I’m not sure how much this would have helped, but I feel when a story like this deals with vulnerable people, and you KNOW how awful the internet is and how it’s full of people who will try to hunt down who the real people are…. Netflix should have protected all involved by not including the line “based on a true story”
Yea like the way it leaned into the true story marketing AND with Richard gadd playing himself basically it kind of invited that scrutiny. It's a good marketing technique but clearly had bad consequences
@@idontneedaname318it wasn’t a marketing thing, the show is an adaptation of a stage play monologue made by Gaff, and it is him telling his story. So of course when it’s going to be adapted they will maintain that.
And then to change things to make her seem worse!
They didn't try to protect Martha at all and she should sue their arse off.
Thank you for the nuanced take, as always. I know you were hesitant to make this video, but I think it’s really helpful.
I haven't finished it yet, but my reaction is somewhere between almost blaming him and feeling an awful pit in my stomach for what he went through
It's less that I fully blame him and it's more like that dramatic irony of knowing that there's a k*ller behind the curtain, screaming at the main character to run away and less truly blaming him. And the pieces of me that I do find blaming him, are the parts of me that blame myself. I might know in my head that my assault wasn't my fault, but with hindsight bias, I'm having that same exact feeling of screaming at an unchangeable event, "get out of there, you idiot, before it's too late" and I feel like that's more directed inwards towards myself, stirred up by the show. And all of that, combined with knowing the turmoil that kind of trauma and dread causes, it what also makes my stomach twist as the adrenaline kicks in. It's really, really interesting to see an imperfect victim like this on screen, one that messes up and can be downright flawed, but still be worthy of caring about
Great video. I'd love further analysis of Donny and Darrian, as difficult as it would be to watch.
I 💜 the waterfalls!!!
There's a link to the original video in the description 😊
Finished this yesterday. Had to look away every now and then, but I also felt catharsis in certain scenes. That hug between Donny and his father made me cry and the speech on stage made me SO happy that these things are talked about! Great series, but I won't be watching it again any time soon. 😢❤
Thanks for using the word nuanced.That was the word that I couldn’t think of it fits the situation.
Victims and the abuse they endure not only affects them, but family, friends, etc. I believe exposing stalkers by way of law enforcement is better than just ignoring it. Stalkers are counting on being ignored so they can continue their abuse unchecked.
Exactly; she’s been at it for quite a while I’m sure.
Idk how I just heard of this from another channel going over that lady’s interview w piers Morgan. What a wild story. She literally said HE was obsessed with HER from the rip.
But she's not playing with a full deck is she?
She clearly needs lots of support that she isn't getting.
Hey, please consider finishing your Spirited Away series. One of my favourite movies of all time, And ur videos are so insightful, well made & beautiful. But incomplete...The last video came out 2 years ago!!!! Please, please, please make the next video of Spirited Away too! A vv humble request. Thank you!🙏🏻🥰❤️👍🏻
I was actually editing it this week. I recorded the episode about a year ago but when editing it, my laptop broke and I then couldn't muster the energy to start editing the whole over again. But I did hope to get finished this week, only my new PC has now also broken. So the video really doesn't want to be made and it's frustrating as hell, but it will definitely happen at some point
I found it one of the most uncomfortable shows I've ever watched, if not the most uncomfortable. Too much of Martha's behaviour rang too familiar, right down to certain turns of phrase, and it was really difficult to go through the same feelings of empathy and pity for somebody that also reminded me very clearly of the worst period in my life.
It was uncomfortable and difficult, but brilliant and in a strange way cathartic for all of that.
I haven’t watched it yet, but i’m glad to have heard your take on it before I do.
Wonderful thought provoking walk. Peaceful visuals with very clear conversation.
Wish I was there!
I could not agree more about so many points you made. Thank you for this very thoughtful commentary about the situation 👍👍
Gadd says that he got thinner to seem more in character, but I think this made him look older and so even though he is 3 years younger than Jessica Gunning, he actually looks older than her. So it is slightly unbelievable that he is a young impressionable guy in his 20's being led along by the much older Martha
This is such a weird comment.
Yeah, the series does suffer from the comedian in his 30s playing a version of himself from his 20s. The age gap between Martha and Donny just isn't so obviously ridiculous the way it would have been in real life. Richard Gadd already looks haggard and worn down even in the flashbacks.
Thank you for this. As a fellow psych therapist (I work mostly w/children & adolescents), as well as an avid viewer of TV & film, I always enjoy your videos.
I'm curious what your response is, if any, to NPR's review of this show -- it's a short article and the only critical review I've seen. After reading it, I'd have to say I agree with some of the criticism.
I'd post a link here but ...
I feel like this show is a perfect example of "art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable"
Sooo good, please, thank you, please do more with this text.
The thing is, even if the wording had been changed to "based on a true story" - the internet would still have found her just as easily. I'm not sure how Netflix is supposed to have a duty of care in the age of the internet. They can't make sure there is no trace of her online. Even if they had hired a thin, blonde actress to play her....people would have still found her tweets, etc. Fiona definitely outted herself.
Thank you for your thoughts and commentary, i found it informative and balanced and interesting. the visuals are lovely, really beautiful as a background to your words. The bobbing of the camera in the middle was annoying.
As a psychologist, I’ve wondered about the diagnosis of Folie a Deux, a madness of two. They hooked into mutual vulnerabilities, their neediness was fed by the attention both received from her obsession. Among other things, I was struck by the hundreds of hours it must have taken him to transcribe all of her communications, prolonging his immersion into her world. As a result of this film they will be forever linked together, their fates uncertain because of the lawsuit she has filed. He has kept her alive in his psyche, just as he dominated her consciousness.
I enjoyed your ideas! Where are you walking? It looks gorgeous!
It's from the channel Dave's Walks, there's a link to the original video in the description. He details and marks all his walks on an online map. I believe this one was in Wales but eitherway, I need to do my bit to promote his channel, it's great
@@mylittlethoughttree It's beautiful! And some of the landscape is strangely reminiscent to walking the trails on the Niagara Escarpment in southern Ontario, somehow, with the rocky outcrops, and the waterfalls. Not to mention the overcast sky and mist! ;)
It was such an important show and had real nuance, i agree with what you said about it being avant-guard: the internet is just not ready for that nuance and i feel like the discussion it opens is lost on the current cultural climate online, i think its a complete oversight on the part of netflix and the creators of the show to have not considered what would happen online after publishing it. It's sad that people have taken this as an invitation for misguided vigilantism instead of opening a nuanced discussion on abuse
This was so wonderful! I didn’t understand either of them at all and now I feel like I do. If you could just explain everyone else in the world to me now 🤔
I thought I’d gotten past a lot of trauma. I’ve always been able to consume media surrounding hard topics and keep them separate and disconnected from myself. For the first time, I had to turn off a show thanks to a deep trigger I’ve never had occur like this. And it was this show. With the scene where Martha starts grabbing him.
Excellent analysis. This series definitely stands out of the newest Netflix lineups
I love your country road walk as a background
This is definitely the best analysis of the show. Really enjoyed hearing a view that I agree with.
Thanks!
Where is the walk please? I need to add it to my bucket list 🌿
There is a link in the description to the original video from Dave's Walks youtube channel. He'll have all the information there. I seem to remember he even charts his walks on google maps for people to look them up
I think the only thing that annoys me about videos like these is that everyone is seeing Gad as a 100% reliable narrator. He himself has said there are things that he dramatized and we dont know where that stops. There are reactions to things that dont really make sense. Like, she was outside of his house for days, but no one knew or came by to see her or ask her why she was there? No neighbor called the police? Gad didn't bring anyone by to reason with her and get her to leave? It's like she is a ghost sometimes that no one else can see and idk, that's weird for a true story.
Idk what's true and what is dramatization, maybe gad was so traumatized and into processing it through fiction that he doesn't know anymore. I do know that it's typical for narcissists to twist a scenario so they are the 100% victim and they get the public on their side to do it. I see both of them doing that to degrees here. Not to say Martha isnt a sick person who has done reprehensible things. It's just, i have reservations on the harmful details gad portrayed and id be curious to see what comes up in discovery.
Good point mate.
In the show she is sent to prison for harassing Gadd, but that never happened. She was never charged.
You can't say it's a true story and then make stuff up. And if you're going to make stuff up, make it so that she can't be identified. But they didn't do that..And that's unforgivable!
So therapeutic.
I don't think it was intentional, but I like this as a subversion of the "British politeness" trope in horror and comedy where a guy becomes more embroiled in a negative situation purely from a desire to avoid anything difficult or awkward. It starts out kind of this way with Donny unable to contend with someone like Martha who breaks all the social rules with no guilt, but as the story develops Donny has to confront his own negative tendencies, which I always find more interesting.
I would love your opinion … it seemed to me that Donny had a form of Stockholm syndrome ?? … hating what Martha was doing but missing it if she wasn’t messaging him / stalking him ??… anyway just a thought 🤷♀️
I mean like of the events are some what true then Maratha probably ended up isolating him. If the only person talking to you really is your stalker/ abuser you're probably going to miss them.
Beautiful waterfall 💙
This seems infantilizing to Fiona. A lot of it is taking blame away for her actions. She may have been mentally ill or lonely or whatever but that shouldn’t take away from the seriousness of her actions. She did the deed, she can handle the reaction to it. If she didn’t want this kind of reaction, she shouldn’t have been a serial stalker. This fact is important too, it wasn’t just Gadd who she had stalked, she had this stalking business down. She knew what she was doing and deserves any criticism for it.
I doesn't take away from the actions, no. It is never about excusing it at all. It's very important to recognise and criticise behaviour, however if we really want to be able to prevent these things and help people reach a place where they stop doing it in the future, we also need to understand the causes and express empathy. Empathy where you're excusing what they did is not empathy so much as sympathy, in my books
You know how much of BR is true? I certainly dont. Not as much as you think.
@@Globaldave1970 I know that Fiona is a straight up liar in some aspects. Claiming that she only sent maybe a handful of emails, and that any voice messages left were recorded by somebody else as if this isn’t easily proven otherwise. She seems to be just a manipulator. She is certainly smart, she is an actual lawyer, so I wouldn’t put it past her
@@Globaldave1970 For one you can see all the tweets she made, and she denies their existence
@@Dillon-killer Yeah, she's unhinged and obsessive and a pathological liar. We are into legal territory now. She has a KC, Chris Daws. They are preparing for a court case, so we will find out at some point the truth. Take care.
i can’t help but see the parallels from “Joan is Awful” and the real life shit that’s unfolding because of the portion of the audience that is harassing fiona. truly like imagine opening up netflix and seeing a documentary about yourself
That was great ❤
After what she’s done to so many innocent people it’s fair that Fiona gets harassed and outed for who she is. It’s Karma, what goes around comes around.
No it isn't. You're ignoring her very obvious mental issues.
Try to be a better person.
@@Samuel-hd3cp that’s a fallacy. Being mentally ill (if she is), isn’t an excuse to behave the way she does. She needs to be stopped. Not rewarded for that insane behavior. Citizens need to be protected from unsafe people like Fiona. Not the other way around. It’s bad enough that she and others live off taxpayers dollars. The people who pay those taxes have a right to expect more than what she gets away with.
Thank you, I knew I could count on you for nuance and empathy ❤ Either or both of those things can sometimes be missing from the discourse surrounding the show. Ever since I watched it, I've been thinking about the ethical implications. I haven't watched the interview nor anything to do with Fiona, really (I mean, I hear of it online, but I haven't actually interacted with it myself in any way, nor do I plan to), it feels wrong to me to participate in that media circus of making a spectacle out of her... as well as giving her more attention, which I think can only be detrimental.
I’d like to know why he re-engaged her. To make money?
Thought provoking ideas along with beautiful scenery....but somehow the journey through it gave me motion sickness.
I'm not sure how to avoid it.
Great video!! but his name is Richard Gadd not Robert Gadd x
Richard* Gadd. Not Robert:)
I don't know why I said Robert, especially when I was saying Richard at the beginning of the video, it's really odd 😆
@@mylittlethoughttree Likely because you were focused on all of the other interesting details surrounding this series. Absolutely loved the countryside walk and calming voice.
Ps: Everyone can guess it was a slip. It doesn't take away from the content.
Cheers!
good video
Imo a big part of Donny's character is that he refuses to be the victim and he'll hold on to any narrative that makes him in control. Because the men in his life are assertive and controlling, he feels that he is not up to par with what society expects or what he wants for himself. He would rather deny how he truly feels because being hurt is much more exposing than being numb. Even when he gains fame or feels accepted by society, he still can't accept that he was the victim. He rather blame himself for being a climber, hence the final episode.
Is it Robert or Richard ? Make your mind up !
Since when has Netflix been a responsible, ethical company?
we want our spirited away episode
I refer you to my recent community posts about my PC breaking
No reporter can find any proof that the stalker was ever in prison. Which raises questions as to what else in this series is false. A British wants answers from Netflix and Gadd as to what the real story is.
I stopped watching after the second episode.
She went to prison for stalking the Lawyer/MP up in Scotland.
Never charged for anything relating to Richard Gadd.
gadd is not director.
Oh, I thought this was going to be about Chopper from One Piece. 🤣
Oh Yh I’m sure a similar male stalker would have the same “right of reply” - it’s disgusting the double standard
I don't disagree with you there. It's the first thing that made me uncomfortable when I saw Piers Morgan was doing an interview. Too often survivors of SA are dismissed or ignored, however in a society of free speech, Fiona has a right to express herself. To be given the platform to express herself on national television for millions of views? Well, that's a different question. The view I tried to put out is that the interview helps no one. It's bad for Richard Gadd, it's bad for Fiona herself, it actively harms the point of the show, and the point that ridiculing those with mental health issues hinders (far more than it helps) preventing this kind of behaviour in others. I don't think Piers Morgan's interview is good for anything at all other than earning himself money
No baby reindeers no way I am watching that show.
I actually think that Piers Morgan did a good job of interviewing Martha. Richard Gadd says on the show that it's "a true story", and people quickly found her after they watched it, so I think that it's only fair that she gets an opportunity to tell her side of the story. I understand that it might be difficult for Richard Gadd, but he did very little to mask her identity on the show. So he should've expected something like this from her. That doesn't mean that I believe her, but it's only fair for her to let her voice be heard. Piers Morgan was just trying to be fair to her and give her an opportunity to say her part. Why would that be so wrong??? 🤔👀
Well the problem here is that even by this argument, that would have to mean Piers Morgan was giving her space to tell her side. He barely did that at all. Twice, she was giving a chance to very quickly try and express, but then was bombarded by questions designed to try and push her into confessing, to catch her out, to make her look a fool. Fiona was able to say that she thinks Richard Gadd's side of the story is wrong, but she didn't really express much about her own side at all and, when she tried to, Piers redirected the interview.
The surface level reason for the interview was for Fiona to tell her side, but really it was all to make a spectacle of her, and make her look as foolish as possible. Fiona wanted to convey herself as someone respectable but Piers made her a laughing stock
@@mylittlethoughttree I don't really think that Piers was trying to catch her out during the interview. I think that he asked pretty fair questions and Martha was given an opportunity to answer them for herself without feeling rushed or prodded by Piers or anyone else. Now, obviously, the show has a limited window for interviews (interviews usually go on for about an hour or a little more than that), so obviously she can't rattle on forever and ever. But I do think that Piers was fair. It was Martha who made herself look like a fool tbh. She was obviously being untruthful at certain moments (e.g. when she qualified the statement about her sending a few dozen emails and saying that it "wouldn't matter even if I did send many emails") and Piers followed up on these moments appropriately, I think.
However, overall, I don't think that it's immoral or wrong that Piers gave her a platform. Netflix is literally the biggest streaming service in the world and the series was marketed as a true story everywhere. Richard Gadd has been telling his side of the story loudly and publicly, so it's only fair that she has the same opportunity. 🤷♂ Again, I'm not saying that I believe her or that Richard Gadd is lying, I'm just saying that it's only fair that she is given the same opportunity to tell her side of the story.
UK's Misery
Well ... sir. This was interesting. However I wish you had gotten Richard's name correct. It isn't Robert. It's Richard. Preferable to know the name of the person you're psychoanylizing.
In my defence, I did say Richard half the time, then for some reason Robert took over in my mind. I have no idea why but I was rushing to get that video out and it had been a very long day 😆
Watching this series, I can’t help but feel that someone very broken is exploiting someone who is genuinely mentally ill. Gadd could have written the exact same thing without promoting it as a true story and it would be easier to consume and discuss. Exploiting real people who are ill doesn’t feel good to watch- it would be easier to discuss the nuances and subtleties of the stories if the characters could have stayed characters instead of identified as ‘real’.
He definitely could have disguised her a little better. I dont understand why Fiona decided to come forward but even if she didnt, he could have changed more details to make it less obvious she's the person he is talking about, the one he felt sorry for, the one who stalked him, the one who's photo he masturbated to. Details like her law degree, her Scottish accent, the diet coke, even the baby reindeer could have easily been replaced with something similar for her privacy
And her past history of offending.
The internet identified her in a matter of days.
epic sause
Why do you keep calling him Robert Gadd ? It's Richard Gadd. Completely different name dude.
Honestly I have no idea. I called him Richard for most of the video, then somehow started saying Robert 😆 I don't even know anyone called Robert, so it doesn't make much sense to me
Because you are asked to give your "therapist," view doesn't mean you ethically should.
Think about your professional standards.
Do you feel this video goes too far?
@@mylittlethoughttree
All the therapists, and they are numerous, should not have made videos on her.......but it's a trend for several years, to do these public assessments (podcasts) of specific individuals.
@@SheilaODrane yeah I mostly agree with that. I certainly refrained from commenting on the real people, showing clips of the interview, and keeping my thoughts on the fictional characters related to what the show is already telling the audience, but even then I have my concerns. I wanted to dispel the idea that someone like Martha is evil or that someone like Donny "wanted it" I think it's worthwhile expressing that but I also don't know if my position is right for it, so it's useful to have feedback
@@mylittlethoughttree
A couple of issues I think are of importance when speaking publically as a "professional," or as a publically preceived, "expert."
1. The influence those individuals have with the public.
2. The harm that can result from opinion of a trusted professional.
Allow me to give an example that highlights both points.
The Andrea Yeats trial had the psychiatrist, Park Dietz, a psychiatrist, testify for the prosecution. At issue for the jury was whether Andrea was "sane," at the time she drowned all her children. Did she know and understand that her actions were wrong? Dietz testified that she was not insane, because she had watched an episode of the TV series, Law and Order, in which she carried out that same scenario on her children. She was convicted and sent to prison (rather than a mental hospital). Jurors said later that Dietz expert testimony was the determining factor in their decision.
Later, Dietz, apologized for his error, and Andrea was moved into a mental hospital.
However, he did not return the $30,000 fee he was paid. He was sorry, just not THAT sorry.
The reason we have a code of professional ethics as therapists is to avoid harming our patients. That code of ethics is more than the confidentiality agreement that governs our license.
In the last 10+ years, the Internet has been a means for opinions, "expert," and otherwise, to be shared, distributed worldwide.
One more example we see as a tactic of prosecuters to influence a jury that applies here: They will ask a question or make a statement they know the Defense will object to and the judge will sustain. The judge will then instruct the jury to disregard that question or statement.
The prosecutor knows that, he/she has planted a seed that can not be unplanted....a ringing bell that can not be unsung. It was a deliberate action, for the sole purpose of influencing the jury, and whether factual or not, the goal is achieved.
My intent when I make similar comments on the "professional," podcasts (as many podcasts as I can) is to appeal to the ethics of the podcasters behavior.
The public will always have an appetite for the opinion of the mental health professional, on specific individuals, and many of these professionals will be unwilling to give up the attention, and or the money.
So whether it's Grande, Mathis or "Dr. John," and a slough of others, they have no intention of giving up clicks. Ironically, many of them talk about the, "attention seeking," behavior of the person they are evaluating.
Please believe me when I tell you, that my comment to you, is not to question, your intentions, in making your podcast, but rather the affect of the podcast on the public and the person.
Murder or manslaughter the victim is still dead.
To your credit, you are the ONLY mental health professional I have written to, interested in any open dialogue on this issue.
@@mylittlethoughttree
Your intentions were good. You wished to "educate," the public on the meaning or affect of certain behaviors, or certain opinions of the public.
There are effective, non harmful ways, to educate the public on BPD, or Narcissism, or any diagnostic DSM disorder.
One way would be to suggest the audience watch the films, Fatal Atraction, or, Play Misty for Me....if the intent is to educate the public on BPD. The obligation of the mental health expert is to absolutly know the DSM criteria for such a diagnosis.
Today the current trend is, Narcissism. Before that, it was PTSD, before that it was Bipolar, before that it was ADHD or ADD, before that it was BPD, before that it was, "Toxic Parents."
All of these public trends were started by professionals, mostly licensed therapists.
I was a licensed clinical psychotherapist for 32 years, retired in 2017.
While I concede, we can not control, public perception of our writing and speech, we certainly should be careful and conscientious regarding our responsibility for our actions as, "professionals."
These "expert," generated trends have harmed individuals and families.
This comment is intended to plant a seed of healthy skepticism in the mind of the public. We witnessed the harm in 2020, 2021, 2022 of Anthony Fauchi's false public statements.
I just don't believe it. A woman with no money does not go into a pub alone. I've never known it unless she's flogging it and Martha doesn't strike me as a tom. And keep your prejudice. We look after our own here. Its got nothing to do with where your born either. If you found London unfriendly, then mate, I have totell you, it was you. You didn't fit in.
If the person is lonely and sad, I don't think they would care about not having money to buy stuff. Sometimes when I feel too sad and too lonely, I just want to put myself into some public spaces, slowly walking there in naive hope that somebody will notice me and help. It doesn't work, but emotions are not very rational thing anyway
I wouldn't take my London joke too seriously, I'm taking the mick out of how fast paced and busy it is. Growing up in a little village where everyone knows everyone, a giant city would feel like that me, and I know that's because I'm not used to it
You sound like a right laugh
I’ve heard from multiple people that London can be unfriendly. It’s not a new idea that mylittlethoughttree made up.
When I had no money I would frequently sit in pubs alone, because I knew the people there were too kind to kick me out. I’d go, just to sit and experience being out of the house for a while. It was for my sanity