Average Runner vs Science Lab
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- Äas pĹidĂĄn 16. 12. 2023
- I went to get VO2 Max and Blood Lactate tests. Not only did I get objective data for where my fitness is right now, I also took the opportunity to test two different types of heart rate monitor to see which is most accurate.
Thanks to @COROSGlobal sponsoring this video. Here's a link to the watch I'm using: www.coros.com/pace3 and the heart rate monitor: www.coros.com/heart-rate-monitor
Thanks also to the Human Performance Unit at The University of Essex for testing me: / humanperformanceunit
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ABOUT ME: I'm James Dunne, a runner, sports rehabilitation therapist (similar to physical therapist) and coach based in the UK (Norwich and London).
Since 2007 I've been working with athletes focusing specifically on helping distance runners and triathletes overcome injury and improve performance through developing their individual running technique.
Running biomechanics and physical therapy are real passions of mine. I love to help runners run strong and stay injury free.
WEBSITE: www.kinetic-revolution.com
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#Running #JamesDunne #trainwithcoros - Sport
The honesty that goes into these videos is disarmingly refreshing and very much appreciated.
Personally I find it a lot more interesting to watch someone who's dealt with "life happens" kinda challenges (illness, time crunch, kids, weight gain), get back into good routines and reaching goals, than professional athletes đđ
S hard to compare ourselves to pro atheles. How many of us can have an afternoon nap, get full decent sleep, while holding down a job.
And then the kids etc.
I prefer my lifestyle tbh. Kids etc.
It's likely that the harness you're wearing interacts with your chest strap. If it's pushing the strap, it could pick up the movement as well as the heart rate.
Awesome test, I have wanted to do that kind of test in the lab, as a similar middle aged man! Congratulations on baby number 2. Your running advice is invaluable, for parenting, I would say that baby 2 is only 100% more work, but anyone with 2 kids knows thatâs not quite true! Good luck to you both
Great video, thank you! I wonder if that testing harness you were wearing played a role in interfering with the proper operation of the chest strap. Later in the test, it looked like it was shifting to one side, which could have caused the chest strap to shift as well - just a thought. I also wear a chest strap when I run, but it's a Garmin, and I've never tried any other brands. I've been pretty happy with the performance, and the only issues I've had have been connectivity to the watch (but that's been very rare). I've not seen large jumps in recorded data like you were showing. Keep sharing, I love your content.
I was thinking the same thing. Even your clothing can cause interference, seeing that harness bouncing around I would definitely see this as the most likely cause
Interesting results with your two HR monitors. I find the chest strap works better (for me) than my watches optical sensor. However, the chest strap must be tight and making good electrical contact with my skin. Since you did this test indoors, there is no question you sweated a lot, so electrical contact would not be an issue.
Good for you James. That you put yourself through the vo2 test and published the results for all to see shows how big a man you are. Always good to draw a line in the sand. I expect many people would like to have these tests carried out if only to see where they currently stand. If you inspire even a few people to take up running and achieve a better standard of overall health never mind faster times, then i thank you.
I ran with a chest strap and watch recording simultaneously and found little difference. However, recently in A&E - long, irrelevant story - I was wired up to an ECG recorder, there were wires galore attached to different bits of my torso. I guess you canât be too fussy for accuracy.
On runs, there are anomalies when the watch pits me in high zone 4 almost immediately. Plainly wrong as I can talk and breathe easily. I stop the watch, move it about a bit, resume and itâs usually fine after.
Another thing which upsets it and spikes the curve is anxiety and anger. I should explain I run along narrow country roads mostly and if I get close passed by a maniac driver, I see my zone jumps from 2 to 4 instantaneously, with no change in my pace. A few deeper breathes and allâs okay again.
Interesting video! Thanks.
Had mine done in early October at Bucks Uni, James, as I'd grown to have little faith in the data my Samsung watch was giving me. As you say, the test results gave me confidence to push forward in my Zone 2 training with 'real' data. Max heart rate at the time (as a 60+ year old) was given as 166 and a V02 Max of 43. I'd previously considered myself reasonably fit....
Two and a half months and a load of quality training later, my new Garmin Forerunner now reckons I'm at 187 and 49 respectively. I say this not to brag but simply to point out that the Z2 training that you and other CZcamsrs have strongly advocated really works if you're basing it on decent data. Keep training consistently based on the stats you've now got, my friend, and I've no doubt at all that you'll soon surpass where you were before.đ
Impressive numbers on your tests. Now if we both could only take our test numbers and get some decent race results...sigh.
Insightful video!
Iâve done a VO2 max test recently with the same main takeaway: as a 34 year old regular runner I thought my zone 2 would be up to around 150bpm - turns out mine goes up until 167 bpm.
I adapted my training accordingly and had great results (with big new HM and Marathon PBâs as well as ârunning easy on feeling paceâ going down by 30 seconds)
Love the honesty and the results here James.
Life does indeed throw us some curveballs but looking forward to getting out running consistently too
A great video. My experience of the Coros arm band has been similar to yours. The data it produced to a matching run was so smooth. More to the point very comfortable to wear without risky movement or bad contact which could easily happen in this testing set up. One of the big upsides of the armband.
Very interesting. Coros has been found to be very reliable but ECG is the gold standard. ECG is prone to static and movement. I will be curious to see how you adapt your training plan to the new zones.
Great Vid! Would love to know how close were the zones produced by the Coros watch/Evolabs compared to the lab test?
All of that easy running has raised your AeT nicely and you have some good headroom to go faster more often! Congratulations :)
This is great James Dunne! Thanks for sharing. Remember, we do it Because It is hard!
I was getting excited for a moment as I'd looked around for somewhere that does one of these tests but couldn't find one nearby. As I live quite near James I was hoping you'd found one....oh well, I suppose Colchester isn't too far away.
I might look into this in a year or so, my main focus last year was running (from basically zero running for almost 20 years) and I ran a trail marathon a couple of weeks ago which was great. But next year I'm switching the focus to weights, eating a lot more calories to support this. I'll still run and do cardio but a lot less than this year. I feel like I want to strengthen every muscle group to support my running but I struggled to combine them before. After each leg session I'd be pretty sore for a few days and couldn't manage a run which doesn't help the weekly mileage!
We are at similar times in life. Although I am a bit old 47. And had my 2nd child back in May. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. I have struggled to get any consistency going. But I have now signed up for a 15km run in March. Which to be honest will probably be the longest. And I will just work on 10km races. And a lot of base work. To get my 10km time under 60 mins. It won't be until the following year. Where I will look at some bigger events. But I wish you all the best to achieve what you are wanting to achieve.
Consider getting very comfortable with buggy running (or potentially double buggy running later in 2024!) to help get in those miles while also earning mega parenting points.
I'd love to give this kind of test a go too. Thanks James
Great video, thanks for sharing
Nice video. Was it a Polar H10. I am a bit surprised by the difference. As the H10 is one of the most accurate. Always wanted to do a vo2 Max test. One day.
A problem that becomes increasingly difficult as we age is to (1) avoid injury and (2) recover from injury. Both can seriously get in the way of achieving goals. In my own case, I'm stuck at the walking stage and not seeing any way past it.
Hi James, you mentioned in your video you sufferer from high blood pressure and take medication. Perhaps an idea for a video but could you explain what impact this has on your running and if there's anything you should avoid doing? I recently found out I had high bp and just don't what limitations this will have on my running.
Love the channel â¤
So interesting! I'm curious about the science around what heart rate to target in LT1. You mentioned you usually ran low 140s for your easy runs, but this shows you could push that to low 150s. Is there more of a benefit to training as close to, but just below, these thresholds rather than say 10 bpm below? That is, if you LT1 HR is 153 bpm, is it better to train at 150 than 140 or 145? And is there any evidence of what 'better' means?
Thanks for sharing. I found the link from the email. Very interesting.
I would like to see the precision of the watch as well on this graph
I was thinking the same thing! Would you be willing to show that as well, James?
how did the lab monitor your heart rate?
When was your last battery change? In my experience polar chest straps does that when the battery is down.
Gonna have to go with what some of the others have stated. The chest strap is almost certainly being interfered with by the harness. Chest straps are accurate, but they need to stay in place. If they move around, the readings can definitely be off.
James, it would be better to run moderate heart rate in this lab/treadmill runs? Not based on age, but maintain same heart rate range would be helpful even on faster pace without cramping legs to walk during run timeđ¤đ¤đ¤
Good video, I enyojed it. Data from a chest heart rate monitor is undoubtedly more reliable - but only if it is in the right place. Be aware that an untrained person's heart rate tends to go up and down in a very short amount of time, so keep that in mind as well. Too bad you didn't have a laboratory heart rate monitor. So you could compare commercial with laboratory devices.
I used to have inconsistant HR results with my wahoo chest band, I found out why. I now wet the 2 electrodes patches with saliva or water before each run and the HR tracking is now perfect.
The upper arm optical sensors work well! The wrist-based sensors don't work for a lot of people. The veins in the wrists are too small for the optical sensors to read well, but an optical sensor on the upper arm has a lot of blood flow to work with! And I share James's surprise about the chest strap performing so badly.
Did you have an ECG at the same time James? I'm not sure why you decided which is most accurate based on 'smoothness' of output
Thank you for sharing your story.
Fascinating video. Iâm amazed at the recommended width of those HR zones for Easy zone 2 efforts! I get concerned when Iâm slightly outside a much narrower range! Do you think as your fitness picks up those ranges would narrow??
How much would that test cost and could anyone book it ?
Thanks
I've always had terrible chest strap data - I go with wrist based - I know it is supposed to be worse but I find it way more reliable.
I get really bad cadence lock with chest strap and it seemed to randomly hop around a bit - the wrist based seems to be more consistent.
If found after around 30 minutes of running with my polar chest strap, my heart rate will apparently just plunge from 135 to 96. Then after a couple of minutes returns. Can't workout if its too sweaty or too tight or what?
Also being that i work at UOE, i should also get my lardy backside to their testing lab!
One of my chest straps had issues with safety pins of my bib during a race, my heart rate reported was basicly my cadence.
Optical sensors will always be smoother than electrical impulses - particularly at hard effort. Optical sensors measure movement of blood in capillaries rather than the contraction of the heart muscle. Itâs like watching footage of peak hour traffic versus measuring when you actually apply the brakes to stop from rear ending the car in front of you. If you just want average bpm, optical is fine. If you are worried about heart health or arrhythmia at top end effort the electrical sensor is the way to go. When your heart tops out the beats become irregular and no longer pump blood effectively. That is blurred out by the optical sensors but shows up as jagged spikes in the chest strap data.
Fun fact, "horse power" was defined as the power a horse is able to produce for a whole work day. That is why a horse is able to produce a lot more than 1 horse power during hard efforts.
In that context, it probably would have been more accurate to say lactate threshold is your "horse power" rather than VO2max, but it is understandable that you wouldn't, since most people think of horse power in context of cars, which are able to produce max power for as long as you like.
Doubt that coros is more precise than polar chest strap.
Lab test is cool but expensive. Usually people that run regularly feel lt1 and lt2 because you could not run threshold 30-40min interval in anaerobic zone
This training should be considered to try if any runner can stay on treadmill least an hour and see difference with itđ
So how did your hips feel when the test was done and you drove home for 2 hours?
I am not surprised by the Polar H10 results.
Interesting. I guess it would be easy to run with a chest strap and arm band and see if the sudden jumps on the chest strap always happen. As some comments mention you are surrounded by electrical equipment strapped up and starting stopping and changing position. I guess exactly where you wear the chest strap may make a difference? Maybe it all points to not taking the magic number as seriously as MAF fans say. A runner will never know exactly where these zones are as you are getting fitter each week and I am getting less fit ...
I found my polar chest strap to be very unreliable, Iâve chucked mine in the bin and gone back to a Garmin chest strap. That never drops out.
You hit you vo2 max way before so they don't generally need that data to determine your current vo2. That amount is accurate
I gave up using heart rate as a primary gauge. I find RPE (rate of perceived effort) gives much better results. There's a lot things that can influence heart rate such as heat and caffiene before you've even put your trainers on.
Don't mind me asking what's your age?
40
Found it from the email.
Iâve been saying this for years now. Chest straps do give more errors. Optical sensors have to more of a robust connection. Itâs an infra red sensor, canât be easily comprised like electrical signals can of a chest strap.
Then the next issue is reliability between hardware to the software đĄ
Good to see a couch potatoe running đ