GMG Reviews - Warhammer: The Old World - Forces of Fantasy (Part 5 - The High Elf Realms)
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- čas přidán 5. 01. 2024
- Having brought the gift of Magic from their isle of Ulthuan to the realms of Men, the High Elves once more set foot in the Old World to do battle with the evil forces that set out to conquer it. That's it! The fifth and final army of the Forces of Fantasy, let's check it out.
Big thanks to GW for the complimentary copy of the books to review.
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Intro and Outro music used via Creative Commons "Benji" by Dyalla - Hry
"O Isha Here I stand on the last shore a sword in my hand. Ulthuan shall never fall!"
*250 years later laughing in Druchii*.
@@shadowhunter0176Dunno if you can really claim the W if the entire continent you were fighting to conquer was somehow sunk in a storm of terrible writing
@@stevenagelutton4322 at that point I think the dark elves did not really care.
@@shadowhunter0176 at that point all 3 elven factions had united as one (what a joke) anyway.
Actually army lists are pretty compelling for historical GW standards. The high elves list is the most interesting since the 5th edition book. And very balanced troops tactically wise, all have interesting strengths and weaknesses. Thanks god blank speed of asuryan is gone.
Love it! Great stuff all round and lots of old items and units that were classic back in the day. Can’t wait to storm the battlefield with the Asur!
A prince on star dragon looks like on of the most terrifying units in the games so far... especially when you fully kit him out with durability magic items... WS 8 (blood of caledor) Toughness 6 9 Wound monster with a 2+ save (full plate + shield + dragon helm) 5+ ward (armor of caledor) 5+ regen (seed of rebirth)... very expensive @506points but pretty much unkillable and dishes out plenty of high strength high rend attacks ( 4 S6 ap2 initiative 10 Lance and 6 S7 ap2 claws at initiative 2)
Don't know how mages and armor woks yet but if blood of calendor lets you equip full plate without penalty you could even have the best wizard in the realm with 5 spells be almost identical to the horror above with a bit less weapon skill and attacks.... and even if you cant 9 wounds with a 5+ regen at toughness 6 is still no joke to get through
And thanks to the lack of step up this addition high initiative units like swordmasters will still be able to beat the vast majority of units to the punch even with a +3 charge bonus to initiative (initiative 7!)
Everything looks pretty good with the only possible personal gripes being that sisters of avelorn bows are only S3 now and phoenix guard only have a 6+ ward :/
High elfs really are back on their bullshit this edition
@@gargi1111thanks for pointing dragon armor out, thought I missed something
And yeah I totally agree that charging your super hero into chaff would be unwise, I envisioned him sitting back and slinging multiple spells a turn and selectively charging a key unit to rough up with assailment spells and dragon talons that effectively can’t hurt you at all
But yeah 2 dragon mages (although quite a bit weaker) might be better if you can find good signature spell(s) to play around
@@gargi1111 I'd have to agree, the game actually seems like a very good improvement on 8th both core rules wise and armies. Seems like most units can find a place this edition
The morale mechanics, general reduction in ap gamewide, and the new magic lores/system all seem like massive upgrades
The only things I'm a little worried about are unlimited frontages, step up initiative wars, and the possibility to spam certain powerful magic missiles
That triple save (2/5/5) is really good - any other army generals which can do similar? not sure if many get the 'Regen' rule as wargear
@@Jimmynuts1 I think a chaos lord can do something similar. They naturally have a 5+ward, can get 5+ regen from an item, and can get buffed even further from eye of the gods... but are capped at a 3+ save
They can also get some other fun stuff like poisoned attacks and re-roll successful hits as well
Funnily enough I don’t think either one could actually kill each other in a normal game length since they both don’t have access to a monster slayer type rule and only have ap 2
Empire generals have a sword with monster slayer though so they might be one of the best anti centerpieces counters
@@gargi1111 yeah it's definitely a drawback, hopefully one of the supplements in the army book will be dragon based and give us greater control of those fiery tempers ;)
for the mages you should be able to somewhat work around it and pick your charges since you will be focused on casting for the first 1-2 rounds
and for the prince on dragon you don't have to worry since moon and star dragons seemed to have calmed down a bit (as long as you don't want the ws8 from blood of caledor)
as for dragon princes... I'm kinda conflicted on them this edition tbh, no more 2+ save but you do get to reroll 1's and they do still have 2 attacks... they might just be more trouble than they're worth at 37 points
Spent last Winter fully painting my ~7-8k point high elves army. So grateful to see they are a core faction in The Old World.
Great video - Really looking forward to playing High Elves again! :)
I'm listening to you while I'm in the queue in the Eastern time zone USA. It's great to hear all of this. High Elves was my main faction back in the day.
If I want to play High or Wood Elves, I’m thinking I should just get the core books and wait for models. Did I hear that you can have allies with other “good factions”? That’s awesome!
"BOOO! BOOOO!!! Everybody hates H.elves. All
my homies in the baraks hate H.elves"
- Statement made by the Dwarfen Mountain Holds Gang
Thank you for posting this. I am looking forward to playing the high elves as I did like their minis back then I am curious what their release box will look like
Love the content. Keep them coming 🎉
I get the reasons, financial and fluff, why we don’t have Dark Elves. But man, they were my babies.
I kind of hope this is them leaving the door open a bit for if they ever want to do a second edition, or a later wave, in a few years and have Lustria
Dark Elves, Lizardmen, and Skaven are all missing and could make a lot of sense to be linked geographically
Very excited to get my High Elves on the table for the first time in 15 years. Theory building my prince - How does Strikes first (I 10) interact with a great weapon Strikes last (I1)?
They cancel each other out. Many big blades are not listed as great weapons though but have high stats without drawbacks.
This is a very interesting over view it would be interesting to see what goes on in the PDF's as I have the Dark Elves I wanna know how that goes on.
As for IoB: those models feature so heavily in the TOW preview articles and all HE army pictures, many people (myself included) assume they will go back into production sooner rather than later. If I were you I would wait some time and NOT hunt on the (expensive) 2nd hand market.
GW just did made to order on Macragge so it feels like it wouldn't be that weird to see them do Island Of Blood, or at least the high elf half
@@Crushanator1 HE and Skaven are mixed on sprues, so it is either both or none. I'll wait and see.
Poor poor Phoenix Guard
that is quite a nerf from 4+ to 6+ ward save
But 4+ armour save and seems a bit better on the attack. So i think they look solid.
I think they're better than you might think at first glance - they make a solid anvil between Full Plate and supporting attacks. Might be hard to compete with Swordmasters though...
They are back where they were before 7th edition: a unit no one took, ever. The problem is not that they are frail, the problem is they are frail, cost a ton of points and don't kill enough anyway
6th they were too bad. 8th they were too good. This looks Goldilocks.
Interesting that the isle of blood units appear in the army shot, and not the older metal versions
Aw yis Spire of Dawn re-print. One can hope at least, they are probably going to chop up the individual units and sell them at half the price of the whole pox, each.
I think the change I'm most excited for is nobles and mages being able to ride dragons now. Dragon BSB here I come!
It's almost like the people making the rules actually had a clue this time.
damn i was hoping for heavy armor upgrade on spearmen to make a comeback.
Glad that they dropped always strikes first. Feels like we are back in 6th edition.
They had Always Strik First on steroids.^^*
I play High Elves and I'm glad ASF is gone too. It always felt like a band-aid rule, especially in 7th, to make up for the fact that GW didn't know how to design an elite, low-toughness army in a system where strength and toughness was key.
@@wulfbak I will always remember when I did a charge with my BloodCrushers into a swordmaster unit and all my poor daemons died before I could attack.^^*
@@00Kuja00 that is rough. Mind you, Swordmasters will probably still have crazy high initiative.
@@wulfbak Was the Re-roll to Hit that was the crazy things thx to ASF + more initiative. :P
Odd that Dwarfs can taken High Elves as Suspicious allies but not the reverse?
Maybe it’s fluffed out that high elves will occasionally show up to help dwarfs in extenuating circumstances but that dwarfs would never show up if elves called on them. Which seems kinda plausible
Far too prideful to ask the dwarves for help. They still have the phoenix crown!
I am so glad they brought back honors
Given the number of magic missile spells out there, the Loremaster's Cloak seems like a steal.
Thank you for this.
Thx for review. What are the two last honors? You only did the first one.
There are 7 honours. If you pause you can read them all!
Awesome review! So Phoenix Guard fight in 2 ranks if they charge, and otherwise in 3 ranks? How about spearmen, how does that work? Oh and how many ranks of archers can shoot?
Oh never mind I think I misunderstood martial prowess :). Still curious about archers.
Phoenixes aren't end times, the kit came about 3 years before that, with 8th launch.
Sounds like they took away the strongest abilities for the high elves - ASF to a man is gone, 4+ ward for phoenix guard is gone, Banner of World Dragon is gone. They still left Dragon Princes with Strength 3, though, which makes them not typically worth their points cost. Cavalry should be better in this edition than 8th, so maybe they will be good again? Overall this army was pretty OP in 8th edition, so this appears to be a rebalance for the army. Not a lot of interesting changes that benefit the army here. Need to see how they play under the new ruleset, though.
dragon princes now have full plate and a 6+ ward, in a game where ap has been reduced. Given the elven +1I on the first round, and +3 I from charging, they will be striking at I9 with their lances, so they will do a lot of damage on the charge.
Wooooo!!! Let’s go!
so do Swordmasters have Great Weapons or a unique sword?
I'm not sure Phoenix Guard are worth it unless they got a points reduction. Their 4+ ward was kind of their reason to be. I'll be interested how they will play out.
They cost more than in previous editions, more than the other elites and from the stats perform worse in combat than them too. It's not even a reduction on the wardsave, it's straight up saying anything magical ignores the 6+
Disappointed as they were easily top 3 in ALL units in WFB and now they don't look worth taking over Spearmen.
@@borgCube100 They were also awesome in Cities for AoS. I'm just not sure why I'd take them now. Their survivability was their calling card and reason for being. I'll have to read the full rules and get some games in. Maybe I'll change my tune.
They can fight in 2 ranks with the halberds though, which looks nice. But the ward reduction is not fun.
@@dagwardenaer8450 With the way WS works, they don't hit anything MUCH better really (IIRC). The extra +1 strength does help.
But yeah the Wardsave. See, it's not even the sheer reduction that has me peed off about it - it's that the wardsave doesn't even work against anything magical.
They are great models and I loved using them on TT and in TWW - but now it looks like it wouldn't be worth to bring them in any competitive way due to them being far too over-priced for their bang.
@@borgCube100 Sure, it looks like I'd rather run a big ball of Swordmasters, they've always been a favourite.
Thanks!!❤
In a nutshell what's different vs 8th edition?
In a nutshell - no ASF army-wide, ridiculous things tweaked, some things made cheaper, some more expensive. Generally better balanced, at first glance. If the rest of the armies had the same treatment, this will make for a brilliant and fun army.
The Dwarf standard rune that causes disrupted charge, does that only deny rank bonus or is there another drawback to a disrupted charge?
No Initiative bonus?
what exactly does the "Arcane Journal" contain in comparison to the "Forces of Fantasy/Hordes"?
Just variants to the composition, a few new characters and units and a couple additional magic items. Your core list is in the big books and you don’t need this book to play the army.
Only Problem...those ugly Spearelves and Archers. Hopefully they will re-release Lothern Seaguards. Really considering proxy with Lumineth because I doubt that I could get my hands on enough of the really old Spearelves and Archers from 4th. ed.
The sea guards that came in the island of blood box won’t be released on their own (that specific kit) as the sprues had elves and skaven all over the show. (Same for the entire island of blood set).
Aw man, looks like I’ll be dusting off that army of Caledor project I started all those years ago 😁.
Is this set during the time period of Mordheim? Doesn’t really matter... I’m making House Asarnil
Mordheim gets destroyed by the comet in 1999. The Old World takes place a few years (or decades) before the Great War against Chaos which is in 2300. After the war Magnus the Pious has Mordheim completely razed to the ground.
So in theory the city of Mordheim still exists in its destroyed state at the time of the Old World.
SO pricing.
How much is a base 2k army with the whole ruleset taxes in?
You can't currently buy one. However, it will be on the cheaper end as the entire range is plastics and models are generally quite pricy pointswise. Much cheaper than tomb kings, likely cheaper than bretonnians.
So, dragons are combined profile so they have plate and then you add heavy armor and shield? So dragons can be 1+ armor with a ward?
No save ever goes higher than 2+
You also don't add monster/chariot mounts armor to a character's. It's best between the two.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames okay then. So plate ( dragon )+ light armor and shield gets you a 2+ on dragon. Or heavy armor and the dude can use a GW.
@@franksczypta1378Nope. This has been spoiled elsewhere. In the Characters section, it breaks down how each interact with chariots, mounts, monster mounts, etc. For cav mounts, they add their barding to your save. For chariots/monsters, you choose the best save between the rider/character and the chariot/monster.
@@Na_bro_leon huh… so you can’t even use a shield if the dragon helm then to improve the save? That seems like a flawed design.
You only went over the first honor.
Yes High Elves
Not them! NOOOOO please !! XD
Phoenix's were not End Times units! They were introduced 8th edition
I'm going to see how realistic it would be to use Lumineth Realm lord models for high elves, cause if it works, that's pretty sweet. I think to make a prince on dragon, you would take the stormcast eternal draconith riders kit and kit bash it with some lumineth riders and that'd look pretty nice.
I have a few Lumineth characters that I definitely want to do some head swaps on to put into a high elf army.
Great video. It gives me more encouragement that I'll be able to use my old Dark Elves as High Elves, seeing as Dark Elves won't be getting any support beyond a pdf. It should be a simple crossover. It's not like those silly humans can tell the difference between an Asur and a Druchii anyway.
Thank goodness my archmage can keep his Star Dragon. That's the main thing I care about.
And he gets kinda jacked too, since you can't shoot him off!
Quality of the video is pretty low, even on "1080p" and fullscreen I still cannot see the written stats etc clearly.
The Phoenix isn't an End Times unit...
I have a full high elf army I might be willing to give up. Let’s talk.
I'm listening...
@@Captain_Idaho I would like to send you a picture. How can I do so?
High Elves seem to be stronger than Wood Elves thus far.
No loremaster of hoeth?
Panicked too soon, my bad
AS someone who was a long term High Elves player, I now fully feel and understand Vito Corleone. Look at how they massacred my boy.
No offense, but your army ruined the game in the past. It needed massacring.
To be honest these rules aren’t even weak when compared to the rest of the field… swordmasters at 14 points are contenders for best unit in the game imho
There are plenty of other crazy combos in this book like nigh unkillable dragon princes as well
@@andrewbakescakes9684 I mean, to take offence would be silly lol.
But you are objectively wrong
@@borgCube100 - Something something BotWD.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 We're not talking about that. BotWD can go fuck as it WAS too powerful (even though I used it a few times lmao)
PG were the only real tanky unit the HE's had, and they weren't tanky per-say. Now they're worse than spearmen BECASUE they cost so much and don't have anything real to show for it.
Be grand tho.
Please do Ogre mate.
No special characters?
They’re going to, for the most part, be all new when the Arcane Journal for each faction drops.
All special characters will be on their relevant Arcane Journal
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames I doubt since all characters from 4-8th edition where all 500+ years a mere 250 years back in time is nothing for eternal elves.
@@jojomerou4075There was a vague mention of a Prince no longer being one, so we may see characters like Teclis, Tyrion or Eltharion as younger and "New" characters with a new centerpiece Phoenix King too
Oh fuck off GW with the Phoenix Guard. What would even be the point in bringing them now? Very very poor choice by GW, especially since they COST MORE than in previous editions.
Ah they strike in 2 ranks at Elven initiative (first mostly) and have full plate armour and a Ward save.
They're great.
The weakest unit out of the 3 elite infantry units is White Lions, simply because they do the least in melee comparatively and are weaker at range than Phoenix Guard.
@@Captain_Idaho So they will strike AT THE SAME TIME as others - state troops beat them. Don't get me wrong, I am a bit of a bullshiter. They ARE great - as you said, fear causing WS5 ST4 AP-1 Fear causing 2 row striking Elves. But it's the fact that they just miss the mark compared to the other special units - they just aren't worth it, and it's a super heavy blow coming from a unit in the Top 3 of WHFB. They WERE the tanky units. Now, they don't even have a full wardsave. The Elves don't have an anvil.
See - okay, yes, White Lions have an issue. But. Given the videos put out, given the rules put out - Armour is KEY in this game. The fact that they automatically have a -3 to armour when they strike CAN NOT be overstated. Also S6 attacks. The reason why I think PG are worse is because White Lions have a niche - heavy as fuck hitters for a race of S3s.
BUT keep in mind, I haven't had the chance to use them yet and could be wrong. Happy to be wrong too. I'm not saying Elves are under powered or anything, I just don't love the nerf on THESE units. For example: Swordmasters are sexy af rn and I don't want things to change, it's just a Strong change for the PG.
Phoenix guard are very different to 8th edition. I think we need to look at them as an upgrade to spearmen for the most part. Highs always wanted to combo charge other units because they cannot outlast in fights. The book certainly looks like they should be using big monsters which is cool. I do feel that phoenix guard and white lions have been hit a little bit due to older rules making them strong. Phoenix guard were never game breaking though. Yes they could last three or four turns but it did all depend on your ward save rolls. Toughness 3 sucks as everything kills you 🤣
High elves.. no ASF. Not sure how i feep about it