Secrets in the Shadow of the Erdtree
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
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SOURCES
►Famitsu Interview: www.famitsu.com/news/202402/2...
►IGN Interview: www.ign.com/articles/hidetaka...
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TIMESTAMPS ▼▼▼
00:00 The New Trailer
02:42 New Gameplay Details
06:10 Lore: The Poem
06:50 Lore: The Land of Shadow
12:05 Lore: A Land Purged
15:02 Lore: Messmer the Impaler
24:31 Lore: Kind Miquella
33:34 New Displate Design
34:42 Final Observations
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I’m sensing heavy ‘Messmer-will-only-be-the-halfpoint-of-the-DLC-and-the-second-half-will-be-completely-nuts’ type of vibes
Right, Fromsoft initial reveal trailers typically don't spoil the final boss of the DLC at all, they could break the trend but with Miyazaki in charge I would think not spoiling the finale so early on is an intentional choice he wouldn't go back on.
I'm hoping that's the truth. It would be wack if he would be the main boss.
@@mikeklim9623why
Which, personally, is my favorite aspect of Miyazaki's works. Bloodborne is still my favorite example of this from him
@@mikeklim9623they said they don’t plan on doing another dlc currently. I think they might do more with the game but this will probably be it for the full on expansions
Someone made a joke about how Vaati would make an hour long video out of a 3 minute trailer, and it turns out they were almost right.
They crammed so much imagery at such a lightning pace that was sort of shorthand for the loremasters to go wild with
@@MikeTheD in a way, that is really good commercial for FromSoft though. They add a lot of stuff in a short vid, and many people talk about it, spreading info to more people
I don't get the joke. It took many hours to make the 3 minute trailer, why would it be weird if you spent 1 hour pulling it back apart?
every single sarcastic comment you can possibly make about a business 2020 onwards is more likey true than not.
We have left the art age, and entered the content age.
The joke I saw was 2 hours 😂
took me a minute to put my finger on it, but the "hippo thing" is giving me major bloodborne shark giant ptsd
DEEPWOKEN SHARKO REFERENCE
@@peenyyt4921this one’s sanity must’ve already crumbled..
…oh god
Damn I hated those bastards
Something that stood out to me 8:51 the woman in the painting is clearly pregnant, with her hand over belly, like a pregnant mother would in other ancient and historical pieces of art.
The Shadow Land, “where the Goddess, Marika, first step foot.” I wonder, could that imply that the Shadow Land is where Queen Marika was born?
Perhaps the old man and the pregnant woman in the painting are Marika’s mother and father. When the Elden Ring needed a vessel, an Empyrean, perhaps in exchange for power, these Numen’s offered their child Marika, as the first Empyrean of the Greater Will.
HOLY FUCK YOURE RIGHT.
I didnt believe it, searched it and yeah, paintings of pregnant women mostly held that same pose.
Or, what if that is Marika, pre-rise-to-godhood, pregnant with Messmer?
What if marika was never born and died in the womb being born in the land of the shadows
I think a core aspect of the story is pregnancy, lineage, and fertility.
Miyazaki and Martin tell the stories of Fertility in a serious manner. People assume marika has so many children and husbands because she’s some arrogant wh*re... but Miyazaki and Martin never wrote their stories this way. I think a hidden aspect to the story - that answers soo many questions - is about pregnancy... whatever Marika’s story is, we’ll learn about why marika couldn’t be comfortable with her births.
CentredTarnished posits that the Lands Between map is shaped like a foetus, and the Land of Shadow (middle of the map) is located where umbilical cord should be.
The folk in the painting could be Marikas parents, Marika herself... but one things for sure, they are DEFINITELY related to marika in some way, given the significance of her infertility story.
(I also believe Marika is the Gloam Queen, but she removed that part of herself and threw it into the Shadow Realm once she became a god. The Gloam Queen represents everything Marika does, but instead she tries to hide that part of herself from the world. The Shadow Realm is literally a place of Shadow - a place of which is supposed to be hidden from the denizens of the current order and world)
@@terraomastarI was thinking the same thing, but that woman doesn’t really look like Marika
HYPED
Me waiting for this vid
Yeah, waited for your lore video for a long time
Finally
I swear I'm bugging but it seems like you meant to put the word trailer on the title. Possibly, maybe, idk
I've been waiting for this one
Me to🔥
Haven't we all ?
Yeah, since February 2023
I see we have a found a fellow person of culture who immediately clicks when Vaati uploads
Brother, we all have.
I love the opening line of the trailer referring to Miquella "wield[ing] love to shrive clean the hearts of men". I think the line saying he "wields love" is an extremely important one, connected to the Bewitching Branch item description which states "Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection." The allusion that Miquella can bewitch others into favouring him sounds very much like him "wielding love" as a weapon, and I can easily see someone saying there's nothing more terrifying.
I also want to point out how Miquella's Bewitching Branch is used to charm foes by stabbing them. Kind of like how Miquella's needle pierces Melania. What if the reason Melania rejected the Rot and its Kindred was because Miquella brainwashed her with his needle? And whose to say he didn't somehow brainwash Mogh into stealing him so he could go to the Shadowlands?
Feeds more into his Griffith comparison
@@CGR1410 I think it is a different situation here. Griffith used it for selfishness... Miquella is using it for the sake of trying to fix the world into a world of “graceful or malign” properties.
Both characters are still using their affection as a weapon (which is still bad), but Miquella is doing it to serve the realm (persecuted people have refuge in the Haligtree; Miquella trying to kill Godwyn to save the worlds from death root; Unalloyed gold was made to oppose the influence the outer gods have on the realm etc.).
Sure, Miquella is doing some “manipulative” activity, but it is all for the sake of mankind.
Griffith simply seeks to fulfil his prophecy
@@Darkheart00 yeah we could say we know Miquellas true intentions and how he’s a “good” guy but we won’t know for certain till the DLC. but the wielding love part is just griffith-like
@@Darkheart00 The path to hell is paved with good intentions.
The name ‘The Impaler’ could be a reference to Count Vlad Dracula, who was the inspiration for Dracula the vampire. Count Vlad Dracula was a member of the Chivalric Order, the Order of the Dragon. And the name Dracula literally translates to ‘son of dragons’. This reference seems to further connect Messmer to Dragons while building onto the theme of blood which also runs through the trailer.
He's probably gonna be like the Nameless King of Elden Ring
Man I still can't get over the veils that gently cover the sky. Miyazaki and his team are freaking gods at creating intensely interesting imagery.
The veils in the sky are reminiscent of the veils surrounding the bed in Marika's room in Leyndell. But it's not such an incredibly relevant detail, because I think it's simply the physical manifestation of the fact that the Land of Shadows has been "veiled"....hidden....isolated from the rest of the Lands Between.
I think the veils are miquella trying to create an eclipse which must have been tied to the shadow realm all along
Fromsoft is great at maintaining consistency in the lore.
Other devs would just make up new things, so it makes sense.
Have you not read some of GRRM prose? He has stunning imagery too. It’s GRRM world that Miyazaki is playing with
@@HenbotI understand the admiration but in an interview Miyazaki said GRRM didn’t write anything in relation to this DLC
Vaati, that 3 minute overview overlapped with the trailer, perfectly spacing your sentences between those in the trailer, was absolutely beautiful.
Bro thought we wouldn't notice
Yes! I was about to exit and watch the trailer, then I realized what he was doing.
@@idkyet3573what
@@idkyet3573 I'll steal your kidneys
No one hour analysis? 😢
Melina is Messmers twin. He killed her and was banished by Marika which caused her to eventually go crazy and shatter the elden ring. Melina is an ash and thats why she comes and leave just like a summon
While I'm not totally convinced, I do think the notion of Marika and Radagon's children all being born twins by nature as pretty neat
Good theory after all this game plays with dual identity.
Messmer gives me big Lucifer Morningstar vibes. His whole aesthetic, ties to flame, the serpents (like the serpent in Garden of Eden), the fact that he's in the Lands of Shadow which could be a sort of afterlife... etc
Lucifer is just the Latin for morning star, transliterated instead of translated. Morning star or Lucifer is never used to refer to satan or the devil. I don't know if you care, but I feel people should know.
He's also a fallen empyrean which really reminds me of Satan.
LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD USE SOME HELP
FROM THE BIG BOSS OF HELL HIMSELF
@@Ravumhonestly you could debate this all dah
Idk how the snake and Lucifer are related tho
If Empyreans all have a Shadow that takes the form of a wolf (Marika/Maliketh, Ranni/Blaidd), I find it interesting that the default Tarnished is always wearing the Raging Wolf Armor. The armor description states, "Armor worn by Vargram the Bloody Wolf, one of the first Tarnished to visit the Roundtable Hold. According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself."
So, if one can acquire the "state" of becoming a Shadow, and our default Tarnished is seen wearing this "wolf armor," perhaps WE are a Shadow... to Miquella? After all, he gives us the gifts of Torrent and the Spirit-Calling Bell, and he's awaiting his "promised Lord" (promised Elden Lord, maybe?)
I think Miquella has been essentially "training" us to become his Shadow this entire time, and that when we get to the DLC he will reveal what our purpose in serving him is.
Honestly one of the coolest theories ive heard that actually has backing
I *love* this theory
Genius
Maybe thats why he seems so completly ''godlike'' in the trailer
that would be cool as hell
I also thought about the default Tarnished point for a long time
like, it's the main Armor Set in the game and always shows up in trailers, it makes sense
The fact that the Lion Boss is three humanoid figures inside basically a costume like a chinese dragon is SO COOL! This is what From Software does better than anyone else! So creative and so cool!
Wow that's an awesome comparison. 🐉🐲
🤡
Chinese is bad
@@meaningfulmindfulness15no its not, they’re promoting Chinese teachings. Horrible
FromSoftware enemies are like characters of a Studio Ghibli movie
Always wondered why when you fight morgott and he’s talking about the thrones there was a space between miquella and Melanie’s chair. Makes sense now that was mostly where messmers chair was. Also heard a good theory the center part of the map surrounded by the divine towers is where the land of shadows is. The vail over the tree in the land of shadows is physically hiding the area. That area is about the size of limgrave. And you can find the dogs in caelid and the mountain tops but no where else so be fire it was hidden they could of moved between the two areas but once it was hidden the were trapped on either side. It makes a lot of sense.
That Melanie fight is my favorite!
Melanie lmao
One thing I noted is that the pink butterflies exist in at least one place in the base game. In the Haligtree around the rot swamp with the tree spirit, surrounded by pink lilies that I also think are unique to that area.
Messmer seems to me like he upgraded into every possible faction. His one eye looks like dragon magic, the other eye like the gloomeyed mother and the godskins, his fire from the giants, the snakes whatever rykard is, but still is kinda under marika and the golden order. Dude is just a player that has maxed out every skill 😂😂
If you watch Hawkshaws video on serpent lore you’ll understand that basically all of those are connected. The dragons, the godskins, and the god-devouring serpent are all interconnected with snake/caduceus imagery, which is literally what Messmer is decorated with.
Yep, man saw Soul of Cinder copying all the Chosen Undead of the past and decided he wanted to try his hand at copying all the Tarnished.
He's the Elden Ring equivalent of an edgelord.
Thank you! Everyone is on here with their half baked theories and it's more likely that Miyizaki is just a freaking troll.
hahahahahahahahahahhaha
"Do you think it vulgar, perhaps? Where I come from, it is a sacred act." might be hinting that Fia came from Land of Shadow.
Fia's storyline was so interesting and cool. I made sure to have her ending as my first playthrough and I want her - or lore surrounding her culture - back so badly in this DLC!
@@wmr5143You want her back? I don't think she offers that. Free* hugs only.
*Disclaimer: hidden charges may apply.
Interesting, I didn’t think about that. Her similar appearance to Marika would make sense too.
Dang, good catch
2:18 Just noticed that the horseback boss with the boomerang looks super similar to the one boss way back in your Elden Ring boss art competition!
37:30 something I've noticed that no one seems to be talking about when it comes to the guy pulling the spined thing out of his eye. Look at his garb. Royal looking, most certainly heavily decorated. And, most importantly, a bright yellow... What have we not seen any reference to in Elden Ring that has been in every single other Souls game to date? I guarantee that guy is going to end up giving us a Xanthous throwback of some sort. Be it hat or garb.
He kind of reminded me of the gold mask in ways, but Goldie is dead so can't.
I think he may be Marikas father, note the painting of him with the woman next to him, she's holding her belly the same way pregnant women were often depicted in old paintings
I love how people are making 40 minute to an hour long videos from just a 4 minute trailer. Really shows just how much care and dedication fromsoft puts in their games
Honestly what other franchises can do the same ?
From soft dedication and their fans passion, these guys ate the goats of the modern AAA gaming industry
@@IronChief13 Hollow Knigth maybe (i know Silksong is basically not real)
Na it shows how down bad we are
very slow voice
Bro the whole "Miquella being Torrent's former owner, guiding Ranni to you, basically orchestrating your whole journey" -thing is fucking mindblowing. It makes everything make sense and that's so dope. Well done again, such great and well researched content.
no its not...its basic first draft story writing,
It's a cool piece of lore in context, but pretty basic for story writing standards.
@@gunny7769It isn't anything special, but it it sick simply because of the way you find out the story and cuz it isn't just that, that is just one more thing about the insane story. It took legit years for us to get that info. It makes it feel less random and kinda hype.
Also why are you not just saying that you disagree, why pretend that you are some smart ass xD
@@gunny7769woah... you should be writing these stories then
@@jankopzmavc6834 Why are you acting like this is a fact? "that is just one more thing about the insane story " It may not be part of any story at all! "It took legit years for us to get that info." What info? Miquella being Torrent's previous master is a THEORY.
Something to keep in mind about the fire of Mesmer, the Erdtree capitol is already covered in ash by the time you get there. He could’ve lit the tree on fire at some point, and was banished to the shadow world for it (sorry if you say this in the video, I haven’t finished it yet lol)
Actually…I wouldn’t be surprised if Mequella is both Messmer and Melina. He may be trapped there and he keeps helping you, even from the very beginning, he gives you torrent, spirit ashes ect. In the DLC trailer, he specifically states that he’s waiting for his law to return to him in the shadow world. I would not be surprised if he split himself into three Mesmer his body Melina is a projection that he needs to burn the mother tree and his soul, which is trapped in the shadow world. This also kind of makes sense because both Melina and Mesmer both have that same eye closed. And the person sitting in the cocoon clearly at least to me looks like has Mesmer’s arm.
A 40 min video out of a 3 min trailer, Vaati never disappoints.
@@idkyet3573genuinely, why do you say it? Edith Piaf (edit 001) : got multiple notification about that one comment being liked, is there any controversy i missed by only casually enjoying stufff online?
@@idkyet3573what does this even mean? What content is being stolen?
Do you really think this is not transformative content@@idkyet3573 ? That's akin to saying historians have an easy job because they steal their content.
@@idkyet3573get a life, already saw you in another comment saying the same thing
Slightly better than 20m video over one tweet❤
Dlc hasn't even came out and Vaat's already got a 40+ video about it... mad respect bro
he needs the money
@@lugia8888And he deserves it xD
I don't know what he can do if FromSoft takes ages for another game tho
There is a lot to speculate and Elden Ring has a crap ton of lore to base things on.
A FromSoftware simp will always be a simp.
@lugia888 This video got 1.7 million views which is like $20,000 Australian dollars. Vaati is doing fine.
Final Comment:
I’m calling my shot:
I would love if Mequella is both Messmer and Melina. He may be trapped there via some attempt to achieve godhood like his mother (probably to break his curse). If you think about it, he keeps helping you, even from the very beginning. He gives you torrent, spirit ashes ect. In the DLC trailer, he specifically states that he’s waiting for his lord to return to him in the shadow world which he seems to favor you for that. I would not be surprised if he split himself into three (which he is already known to do), Messmer his warped body, probably through some blasphemous failed attempt to grow via dragons communion, Melina is a projection that he needs to burn the Erd tree to escape and his soul, which is trapped in the shadow world (the thing we see in the end of the trailer). This also kind of makes sense because both Melina and Messmer both have that same eye closed, and the person sitting in the cocoon clearly, at least to me looks like has Messmer’s arm even though we call it Mequella’s cocoon. Also, on a final note, the original collectors set included a statue of Melania, while this one is her brother…Messmer (Mequella).
In the DLC trailer, it is stated that we are following Mequella’s steps and where we start in the main game, it may be deliberate that it is called “The First Step”.
holy shit, when I first read that first sentence you wrote, I was thinking "nuh uh no way" but actually, that's a really cool idea and it actually sounds possible, if Marika/Radagon are the same person but exist as separate entities, Miquella could work that way as well
Re. The Tarnished's relation to the Land of Shadow, I think it's pretty believable that the Land of Shadow is a dumping ground for the spirits of failed Tarnished.
Due to Marika removing the Rune of Death, spirits stick around after death and have to go _somewhere,_ such as Spirit Ash. In most Lands Between residents' case, the grace of gold has them steadily migrate to the Erdtree to be -probably consumed- reincarnated. Tarnished's spirits go nowhere and just reside in their bodies til Marika's grace rouses them back up.
The Land of Shadow provides a good explanation for the final point of that journey, these souls can eventually slip past any chance of grace saving them and get obliterated by Messmer. I don't think this will be the case as Fromsoft have almost never committed to these death revival ideas this hard (eg. you're pretty much the only undead in dark souls who actually revives), but I would _love it_ if Tarnished NPCs actually showed up in the Land of Shadow if they die in the basegame, even if just as easter egg corpses most of the time
Awesome never actually stopped thinking about the spirit's ashes in that way. On my end I was thinking that Miquella needed to go to that land to use a new tree that it's growing according to the screenshots of the DLC and use maybe the power of the eclipse aka the star of the souless demigods, hence why we need to defeat Radahn to access the DLC as well and the imagery of a candle tree which is the one Miquella use to guide spirits to the catacombs to revive the souless demigods aka Godwing trough that we will fulfill one of Miquellas objectives which is to let Godwing finally rest properly without being cursed.
"Mother, would thou truly lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?"
I interpreted Messmer's line as taunting towards Marika.
As in "oh really, you will recognize this lowly tarnished a claim to lordship whilst condemning your own blood to banishment?"
Especially since his imagery is so drenched in what Marika's order would see as blasphemous, and thus "bereft of light".
true he could very well have rebelled against her hence his banishment.
still, if the second quote "all those stripped of grace shall meet death" is messmer's quote then it makes him sound faithful to marika, which makes their relationship a mess 😵💫
Do you think he’s talking about us or Godfrey ?
If you run it through a Shakespearean translator, it come out as "Mother, do you really think it's right to give power to someone who is so ignorant?"
Sounds a lot cooler in its original form.
@@Reemon27Actually, it also validates OP's statement, it makes Messmer sound resentful towards the tarnished for being granted the possibility of lordship without the light of gold, unlike him which was banished even though he was her son.
@@Reemon27 I wonder what came first, was he banished because he indulged in what the Golden Order finds blasphemous, or did he begin to blaspheme against the Golden Order because he was banished
Superb video my guy - June is gonna be a real treat for us all.
Can't wait for your coverage
The rest of us can't wait for EITHER your evaluations.
I myself also have a soft spot for Tarnished Archeologist.
looks like Elden Ring is going Dark Souls way. I love it!
My theory: Marika "killed" the Crucible Tree and sent it to the Land of Shadows like that. The war mentioned on the trailer was with all things Crucible, afterwards she made the Erdtree to be the new destiny for the souls of the dead. In that war, she used the Black Knife Assassins with the rune of death in their blades, that is why Ranni uses them afterwards.
@VaatiVidya : the stripping of Grace might also tie in with the new attack power mechanism brought in.
Grace = runes we use to level up.
To enter the DLC and follow Miquella, we have to renounce our grace and therefore our rune level.
Hence the new attack power mechanism to fit with lore and tie gameplay and lore together
Actually it has to do with my friend I went to university with, named Grace, who has now become a stripper.
Could be a way for him to see if grace was once removed from us, even though we have it now, to be honest you shouldn't ever lose grace
@@Orphioux😂😂😂 tf bro
Messmer really gives my the vibes of the Evil King Zahhāk from Persian mythology. He was a well intentioned boy who wanted to be king who was tricked by the god of evil into killing his father, and then got cursed with two snakes growing out of his shoulders that hungered for human flesh (I think brains or hearts specifically but I can't remember).
That’s actually a great point! Smart thinking. 🐍
oh shit thats where darkness based its premise off from! thats cool
It hungers for hearts and minds? Interesting. There's a whole thing about eating hearts in the game.
i knew his design looked so familiar
It was specifically brains if I recall, yes
I'm more hyped for this video and your lore breakdowns than the DLC itself.
It's as if playing the game is one half of the experience and then watching reliable content creators if the other half. To see what you've missed and if the head canon is truly aligned. Appreciate the work that goes into these.
Perhaps Messmer was Marika's _first_ child. Kind of a Nameless King situation
I was messing around starting a new game after watching this and defeated the scion and i seem to noticed something. After beating the scion after you leave the boss room you get your first crafting material which strangely is a Nascent butterfly, and just before you die at the edge of the cliff is also some Nascent butterflys as if they were leading you to your death so you can proceed. Makes it seem maybe miquella was watching us the whole time during our journey from the start.
For sure
It's always amazing how Vaati manages to make 40+ minute videos from a 2-3 minute trailer
he’ll pump out another 40 videos on the trailer too
never underestimate Vaati's ability to make content out of scraps
He accepted a 30 minute lore video challenge with just a poster
Absolutely. Also shows the masterclass work of fromsoft to pump that much detail and art into their video games. Unbelievably detailed
@@primarchlogarius is there a link to this?
The capital and the little sliver of the Erd tree we actually can see are pretty clearly burnt and all the ash around the capital more than proves that the Erd tree must have been set on fire at some point. I always assumed that Melina was somehow the one who did it because of being the kindling maiden with very little other information on her, but with the combination of Messmer's affinity for fire and his nickname of Impaler makes a lot more sense as to what happened in the capital with Marika being Impaled in the Erd tree. Just speculation obviously but I'd wager that the city we see in the DLC is actually the missing part of Leyndell that is just gone in the base game. Messmer probably turned on the Golden Order by burning the Erd tree which stared a war that Marika moved to the Shadow Lands somehow by the time it reached the capital. One of my biggest headscratchers in the base game is why is over half of the Capital just gone? We go through a side door to get into the place and we can even see the main gate to the city if you stand on the wall at the top of the elevator behind the Fortified Manor just down in the empty pit. I've heard people say "oh well it was flooded" because its water on the map, but we can see one of the doors that would have lead to a lower part of the city at the opposite end of the capital's main road from the Erd tree and from the wall behind the fortified manor I already mentioned we can see that the water is way to low for that. In the opening cutscene of the game we even see Leyndell's main gate being sieged out, so either this happened after the war of the Shattering had already started or its was such a well kept secret that nobody knew they were sieging into an empty pit. Given that the gate doesn't seem to have been breached in the base game, id say that it happened during the war so defenders could realistically hold the gate from an enemy attack. The War of the Shattering is honestly what we need the most info on for me. It is such a scrambled mess that we still can't actually even place a starting point of the war, it just happened sometime after the Night of Black Knives and we have no idea how long it lasted or even how long its been since the final battle in Caelid. Maybe the thing behind the cloud at the center of the map isn't even anything as big as we thought, maybe its just the final divine tower with Messmer's great rune.
It is likely that the missing part of the capital is in Deeproot Depths. You can see ruins have similar architecture to the buildings that remained above ground in the capital. But, most notably, it is right under the capital. It doesn't line up perfectly, so there's still a chance you're onto something.
I just noticed the pink/magenta magic the Roderick-like character is casting looks identical to the magic that the hand enemies in places like Caria Manor cast with their ring. The magic that binds you in place and opens you up for a grab/big attack. Interesting
It may also be worth noting that Messmer seems to take a lot of inspiration from Dracula. Dracula was known as "Vlad the Impaler" for mounting his enemies on pikes etc. Messmer seems to do the same. Then there's all the red, dealing in death in a "place bereft of light," its very subtle and I am all here for it.
I was so looking forward to this video the minute I saw the trailer. I'm not amazing at souls games, but Vaati gives me the courage and determination to see all these amazing things for myself.
Dracula also means son of the dragon
First thing i thought of too!
Messmer may have been the one who impaled the guy who's pulling the spear out of his own head.
👏👏👏
Soulsborne games always took a lot of inspiration from Berserk. In this case Messmer is the spitting image of the Flame Dragon Knight. I'm really surprised Vaati didn't adress this...
It's really cool how you can literally see the curtains in the sky next to the burnt erd tree. Like it was not just shadowed but actually fully hidden away by the light of the tree. It might be the same size as limgrave as it kinda overlaps limgrave
Hope this observation will be mentioned someday: we have in-game item "Mimic's veil" that is said to also be known as "Marika's Mischief". Probably another clue to the veil covering the Shadow tree. Also a black knife assassin can be found right in front of Marika's bedchambers. There is no such thing as a coincidence
Miyazaki stated in an interview that the DLC will be around the same size as Limgrave, so you were right.
Miquella gives me griffin vibes with all the talks about rebirth and bringing a new age of flourishing of life
Very cool. Also, sorry for the wall of text.
On the theoretical point of the Land of Shadow being a possible afterlife in Elden Ring: Given the Celtic influences on the game, something to note is that of Celtic mythology's 'Otherworld'. Among being a place of gods and possibly the dead, Scathach, a warrior Queen, also resided there in the a place known, translated, as 'Land of Shadows'. To further point out this influence, Scathach also possessed and eventually gave away to her greatest student the Gae Bulg, the name of which translates to 'Mortal pain/death'. This kinda ties into what you pointed out how Marika makes use of everyone, and maybe why she's impaled. I also can't help but make Vlad III connections to Mesmer, especially with how Vald III was demonicized for his actions, and with his name of Dracule, a lot of dragon and Satan is thrown on him. Something I can't help but to point at the webbed wings and serpents all over Mesmer.
Vaati's breakdown videos are always worth the wait. The dedication and effort put into each analysis is truly commendable.
shut up bot , go lay vertically in your attic
Thank you Julia Trades Crypto! Your Real and Honest Human subscriber base appreciate your Scam Free Crypto Tips!
I've seen you comment on multiple videos, hows it that a million sub channel only has 1 video, oh right, you either hacked/bought a channel.
Both against YT guidelines btw.
@@4chanwarrior Lol, sure. Fake subs and saying "scam free", sounds soooo trustworthy😂😂
@@NateDates Trying to scam ppl propably.
Regarding Mesmer's "Impaler" title and his links to dragons: The former could also be a nod to Vlad Tepes III, AKA Vlad the Impaler or, you know, Vlad Dracula. "Dracula" literally translates to "Son of the Dragon." Obviously not something that would be mentioned in lore, but an interesting little reference nontheless.
oh yeah not lore-wise but in terms of theming thats 100% an inspiration
Messmer could also be a George R.R. Martin reference. In the Blood and Fire book, Rhaenyra Targaryen is said to have given birth to a child with dragon-like birth defects. I love how this DLC has everybody's mind going into overdrive with what they can see and spot in the trailers.
It feels like Messmer is just stacking every heresy at once. Its like trying to get as many tattoos as possible just to annoy your strict parents
It's simply delightful. Your voice and narrative, your detalistic explanation. Your art. Deep details! All of it fits amazing. Thank your for being so good with these videos productions and also for bringing joy for all with your passion, so well represented, for the game.
Messmer does do the ability where he can rend a bunch of lances upwards, very similar to how cleanrot knights can do it too(Incantations but Messmer's are actually physical lances). Possibly meaning he was a progenitor or the first cleanrot knight?
very good observation!
I knew I had seen that move before. Yes!
he cant be a mere knight because he is stated to be a demigod on equal footing with the others
Maybe Malenia and Messmer were on good terms, with him training her knights at some point. Or the opposite is true, Messmer learned the incantation possibly made by Miquella and later corrupted it with his own blasphemy.
@@gsomslayerNo one said that. He's saying those knights could have originally served or been inspired by Messmer. Since their magic and visual design seem to mimic his.
Kinda like how Godfrey has Serosh, and all his crucible knights that followed him use animalistic (crucible) incantations.
Theory may be wrong, but its not a bad one to speculate on currently.
With regards to only Marika & the Giants being impaled, I think it's important to recall that Deathblight pretty viscerally impales people, and Messmer's flame has these tendrils of black that are either reminiscent of the shadowy tree or of deathroot.
☝
The tendrils resemble the flame/thorns of the Blood Star cult.
Please do not let him have some insta kill deathblight attack. His rotting sibling was bad enough 😢
Fer sure. I think Godwin is gunna see what's good as the final boss. Bro has been growing all over the place. Even in the deathblight frogs
I'm curious to see if they're gonna have some Easter eggs in the lands between if you complete the DLC. For example, imagine starting a new file in which you defeat Radahn and Mohg, but not Malenia: what I would like to see is an interaction with her in which we tell her that we met Miquella and maybe give her some closure without having to kill her. It's like the other quests where changing one choice you make gives you a different outcome. I think it would be pretty cool. Maybe it can spawn a new quest in which we help her get to the shadow land to be with her brother. I know it's kind of improbable, but one can dream right?
Just wanted to mention Helphens Steeple mentions a black tree and that it is a path for the new glorious dead. So what if this new Bkack tree is the Helphens Tree? The red glow around it could be similar to what I’m gonna call “The Fallens Grace” where those who side see that red grace could be that red glow near the highest point of the tree.
It's gonna be interesting coming back to this later and see how much Vaati got right.
I have been waiting for this! A few observations: 1.That "red dancer" has so many paralells of the blue dancer/blind swordsman that mentored Malenia. The boats in the background would also fit nicely with that as well.
2. I keep looking at Messmer's snake, his helmet and his other snake ornamentation and I believe this is actually a single 2 headed snake.
Ouroboros doesn't have two heads though
@@cooskiesyou are correct. I'm an idiot. Comment edited to reflect that. Thank you
Bro doesn't miss
An Amphisbaena is the two headed snake. They WERE IN DS1 though, so maybe they wanted to bring it back?
I think there's a freeze frame from the trailer that shows both snakes emerging from messmer's breasts
One thing that caught my eye in the trailer is that the moon in the background when the slug-face monster eats the face of the tarnished, seems to have the same patterns of the dark moon in the main game (which Vaati speculated in another video might hold Ranni's rune onto it). Its curious that this would also be visible in the Land of Shadow.
Also - Are the suspended pots you see at some point jar-people in the making?
I’m surprised Vaati doesn’t know about the Elden Beast’s grab attack. It explains what torture Marika went through after the transgression she committed.
The companion in the portrait could actually be Fia, she did say she was pulled from her Noble from somewhere and was forced to stay in Lands Between.
VaatiVidya does it again, diving deep into the lore and connections between Messmer and Dracula, Incredible storytelling as always
Dracula?
Bro probably hasn’t even watched the video before commenting generic praise
@@aswifte5743 messmer is taking heavy inspiration in Dracula's lore.
Dragon imagery, "the impaler", the role of "deathbringer", weapon of choice...
@@luizcarloslemos7610 Sure, but at no point in the video does Vaati talk about Dracula unlike what the commenter is saying
Not very deep tbh this was a weak video!! Just stating the obvius
The way this DLC is going to become my entire personality when it finally releases
The idea that this DLC could be the thing to wrap up elden ring's entire story in a bow, like the ringed city did, is crazy and im so hyped if thats the case. I love how from software's DLCs sometimes become integral parts of the overall story, sometimes becoming the end to it
Maybe this is really dumb, but I kinda like the idea that all the rune towers are holding up the veil that covers the Land of Shadow, and that it actually resides *under* the gulf/sea between Altus and Limgrave/Caelid.
I personally love the idea that it's almost a pseudo-Atlantis, that the sea we see in the overworld is a powerful glamour overtop part of the continent that used to be there but has been foresaken to such a degree that it's been literally wiped off the map.
I think would explain why we have to teleport there, but how it is also a physical place that is as close to the actual Erdtree as it seems to be described.
I was also thinking of something similar. My theory is that it lies somewhere between the Lands Between and the Deeproot Depths. Hear me out.
My first reason stems from the image at 9:03, where we see a strong light above the large tree and the large gnarled roots on the edges of many of the cliffs. Zulie's video highlighted a second trunk entwined around the main tree. My theory is that they are in fact the rotten roots caused by Godwyn. These roots can also be seen snaking around the cliff edges as well. Since we know the rot is influencing the "overworld", as seen in the Altus Plateau, the Land of Shadows could be sitting somewhere underneath it and directly above Godwyn's corpse.
My next point alludes to Marika being Numen and how to get to the Land of Shadows. Numen runes can be found from Giant Ants in the Deeproot Depths, so, if we tie this with Marika being a Numen and being from the Land of Shadows, it could be possible that it exists somewhere close to Deeproot. To get to the Land of Shadows, one must strip themselves of their flesh (mortal shell, if you will) to enter. Since those who have died are supposed to be buried at the roots of the Erdtree to re-enter the cycle, it wouldn't be a leap to suggest that the Land of Shadows is tied to the roots of the Erdtree.
YES
The reverse tree is a root system. If you turn the image upside down you see much more. Which is apt. Since you are going to the roots of story of the beginning.
I'm playing the game for the 5th time and it came to my attention that there's a ghost at one of the ruined churches in the wild that says some interesting things like "Unwanted Child" or "Soulless Demigod". I'm pretty sure he talks about Messmer. Also, there's a catacomb in the games called "Impaler's Catacombs"
wait so bandai is personally sending Vaati lore poetry? oracle status achieved
The OST with the decending violin-chord at 1:00 has me in a chokehold. I really hope they have a thematic boss fight for it.
YES! Since I first heard it in the trailer it has been echoing around in my head ever since. I’ve been rewatching the trailer exclusively to hear it. It will most likely be a boss theme.
Same here lol it caught my attention because it’s so epic-sounding
It has that bluesy major third over the vii b5 chord, super ear catching!
It will likely be Messmer's theme motif.
I’ve been checking your channel multiple times a day since the trailer release in anticipation of a breakdown. Once again, you have not disappointed. On behalf of myself and my fellow tarnished, we thank you.
Thank you for making a fromsoft lore channel that isn’t loud and going a mile a minute. I love the well paced videos with your soothing voice. Your videos are fantastic.
Fun thought.
Blackguard actually kinda mentions what feels like the truth.
"Maybe something went tits up with it. Maybe... it's been broke for a good long time."
It is "broke". The current Erdtree is just a godly illusion. You can tell because it doesn't have any locations to acquire its amber.
Miquella bestowing secret favors on us from the beginning of the game gave me goosebumps and god does it have me even more excited to finally meet him! Does anyone know where the music is from that plays at 29:50 during this big scene in the video? It’s so soothing
Think I found it on that Epidemics website, it's Alert by DEX 1200.
I think I found it on that Epidemic site, it's Alert by DEX 1200
Pretty sure its Alert by DEX 1200
thank you!
Melina and Mesmer both left eye closed, Melina having burns on left hand and having dragon like claw on left eye and Mesmer having dragon like wing on left side of his back. I would say they are on same side. especially that Melina burns the erdtree, wasn't mentioned by morgott when he called on his siblings near the gate of the erdtree same goes to mesmer and the thing with snakes being viewed as traitors to the erdtree
Its also possible that Morgott doesn't know who Messmer is. If the Land of Shadows is a place hidden and separate from the Lands Between, then Messmer could have been sent there for his safety or for some other purpose. Messmer could have been afflicted by some kind of curse, similar to Malenia, which caused him to grow serpent-like features. This whole DLC has everybody's brain on overdrive.
@@Undeadsloth94 all are possibilities however I focused on the similarities between him and melina since there are many
I keep thinking about how weird the gap between godrick's,miquella and malenia's thrones are,as if there was a supposed throne between them,if not it is very funny how the twins had their thrones a football field away from godrick's
@@randomperson093 i think it’s related to their siblings from same mother and father.
I thought this would be worth mentioning. The Church Of Pilgrimage has a soul that says, "The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod. O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child." Which is also near the Impaler's Catacomb.
My theory is that the " A land purged in an unsung battle. Set ablaze by Messmer's flame" line is saying something like he began the war. A war set ablaze by Messmer's flame, a war so gruuesome not enough people were around to share stories about it or it was a war somehow hidden from the denizens of the land of shadow so that none could remember it. That's just a theory though. A GAME THEORY!! Thanks for reading.
I think these videos remind me of literature class where the teacher tells me what everything represented and ties all of the links. I realize I only got a third of the picture.
The one key difference is this is wildly interesting, with great production values and wonderful narration.
Its probably been pointed out already by now, but a detail that hasnt left my mind since i noticed it days ago is that at the end were we see possibly-miquella raising his hand at the shadowy erdtree is that there the sap thats been flowing down in every other shot isnt there anymore .. i dont think its anythign significant but if i dont say it at least once it wouldnt leave my head xD
Anyway, great video and looking forward to more! :D
Not only the sap is missing, but the veil seems to disappear as well. Could it possibly mean that Miquella transports this tree to his Haligtree, or reveals this place in real world to create a new home for Godwin 🤔
@@Ellemonadze Miquella is attempting to restore Godwyn using the player's power and something in the Shadow Realm in order to force Godwyn into being his elden lord
That is Miquella
Another speculation, the Great Rune seen in the trailer. I think that may be Miquella’s great rune, the Great Rune of the Reborn.
Lore aside, i have no idea how Fromsoft keeps hitting a perfect 10/10 in regards to visually interesting environments.
I was waiting for you to drop a video of the trailer, fantastic job as always. Thank you, legend
god i PRAY that they don't make Miquella a boss. I'm so tired of every big name character being an antagonist. For once, i just want one of these guys to be on our side and Miquella honestly has the highest chances of being that character. It'd be a refreshing change of pace too.
Regarding the mounted enemy with the gravity magic at 38:36 -
The red and gold cloth that lines the mount's saddle is very similar to the cloth wrapped around the unaltered Banished Knight Helm.
Not sure if there is actually a connection there, but it was fresh on my mind since I've been farming all the armor sets in preparation for the DLC.
About that comment of Kessler only having one functional eye. I’m making a SUPER long Hail Mary play here but imagine that Melina and Messmer are twins because Melina only has one eye that works(outside of when we see the frenzied flame ending) and they could possible share the smoldering butterfly item as their sign. Then again this take is so far out I’m very doubtful of what I just typed.
Also one more thing to add on Melina’s left eye there is a dragon wing and it’s pretty interesting that messmer has some type of dragon wing or armor he wears as well🤷♂️
Aside from everything else, the music used in the trailer is so perfect for the tone (i assume) they're going for.
I'm very happy to get this amazing video so soon after the trailer but please take care of yourself and sleeeep Vaati
Im so excited to learn the lore behind that big line of birds
This is going to be even more crazy journey for us, in this upcoming DLC here. The fact that the lore of this world will heavily focus upon Miquella will make this even more crazy. Also that crimson flamed guy with snakes around him, just looks so awesome. Messmer doesn't messes around, and you can tell by his boss fight gameplay.
I always got the vibe that Radahn's helmet was evoking the mandibles of the falling star creatures, not a boar's tusks. They're angled to point inwards, not up. And since the falling star creatures are clearly linked to gravity magic, that always sees appropriate to me.
This is a serious compliment. I love that you can take a 3 minute ambiguous trailer, seamlessly intergrate it with you deep knowledge of the lore, and create a 40 minute mind blowing video. You are the hero we need AND the hero we deserve. Thank you.
When's the wedding?
An Elden ring tv show that takes place before the shaded ring during the golden age would be fire 🔥
13:03 the artwork. I love the calvary knights hammer!!!
The trailer was full of amazing imagery; I'm completely in love with the Omen Lions, including the Puppet boss and his miserable expression! The Wicker Giant seems awesome, too. I really have to get into Beserk now.
you have a great voice for this kind of content
How did I just find your channel?!? You are damn good at these lore videos!
My speculation: The Crucilble tree got to grow up big a strong
29:17 Soundtrack for :kind miquaella please
aahhh i missed these 💓
A tremendous amount of details revealed. Great job!
I've watched this trailer I dont know how many times. And it never ceases to amaze me, how much you open my eyes, to so much detail and depth. The sheer amount of lore, and detail this game has is breathtaking. And I am eternally grateful to you, and your contributors for piecing together a masterpiece. You are truly one of the best storytellers of our time.
What's the music playing around the 30 minute mark? It starts at 28:46. Vaati played it during his hour-long lore video on Miquella too and I haven't been able to get it out of my head
been trying to find it but no luck. did you find it?
Imagine after this dlc drops that we get two different Empyrean consort options. Either Ranni or Miquella. Unique dialogue for Melania if you fight her after the end cut scene (call back to Sif).
Baseless theory from me: Messmer is Marikas first child before becoming Godhood
I just have to say how amaze me that you have such a view of this game, how you explore and explain its secrets, how you narrate the history of this amazing world, that the creators send you a message to interpret and explain in your own words, is a form of art, amazing work as always, calm, curious, full of secrets 🎉