The Lore of Elden Ring's Dragons
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
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SOURCES
►Check out Zullie's channel for more datamined secrets: / @zulliethewitch
►Check out V-Limit's channel for more lore: / @vlimit11
►Check out more lore theories from Lokey: / lokey_ds
MORE LORE
►Check out my lore video on the Eternal Cities: • The Lore of Elden Ring...
►Check out my Prepare to Cry episode on Frenzy: • An Elden Ring Movie ► ...
CHAPTERS
00:00 Placidusax, the Dragonlord
15:39 The Beasts of Farum Azula
27:54 Shadows of the Empyrean
34:37 The Ancient Elden Ring
44:02 The Nameless God
55:00 The Dragonkin
58:05 The Mother of Dragons
1:06:42 Dragons of Ice and Glintstone
1:15:25 The Dragon-Hearted
1:26:43 The War of the Ancient Dragons
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SPECIAL THANKS TO
►Mispap1, for Lore / Prepare to Cry editing and footage - @mispap1
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I thought this was that 2 hour armored core lore video 😫, but this will do till then.
i love the content!
any news on the ac lore video? i have popcorn ready to be popped
Displate is one sponsor im always happy to check out. They make really cool stuff
Im hungry :(
😅😅
37:08 “placidusax is in a state of eternal maidenlessness.”
Yeah, same
I feel like a powerful ancient dragon now
😂This comment Made my day
It's will change boys🦾🦾🦾 our time will come.
Alternatively he/she is his/her OWN maiden.
"Placidusax is now drowning in a state of indescribable maidenlessness"
Vaati dropping a video right now, seems like DLC update confirmation to me!
Stop hoping man give up it’s never coming
DLC files have been uploaded to steam recently, all of the Bandai Namco youtube playlists for elden ring have been updated with unlisted videos, and the thrustmaster leak pointed towards a February release... we have to be close now, don't go hollow brothers!
@@colecarmichael5724it is coming lol what you smoking homie pass it
Its coming out this year focus on tax season rn @colecarmichael5724
@@_Azulite_ it’s too late man I’m playing gollum there is no more hope
watch a movie: nah
watch an almost 2 hour youtube video about game lore: hell yeah
i actually love listening to these when i am working and the day is a bit quiet - makes the day fly by!
I listen to these in my free time and when I'm going to bed. Vaati's voice is just so soothing
1:08:56
So we got a floating city that is most likely from Caelid, and a possible huge part of land that vanished, right next to architecture that looks exactly like Farum Azula, and on the other side you've got animals and Giants that match the beings from the other side?
Has anyone considered the fact that Farum Azula IS the land bridge that is now gone?
That's definitely a good theory.
my theory on why the farum azula is floating is because of marika spiriting away literally half a continent's worth of land mass that then turned in to the land of shadow.
@@aistikasmursu9432 Sooo your theory is Farum azula is being Vacuumed by the land of shadows disappearance and the only reason it hasnt just crumbled is cuz dragonscales fuck with time itself? that actually does make a bit of sense
If it was the land bridge then the landmass of the lands between would have been a circle rather than a C. What else is a circle? The elden ring rune. What had a piece removed from it? The elden ring rune. What if the land itself is mimicking the state of the rune? Maybe that's when the Farum Azula ascended?
Thank you!!!!
I love the fact that we had so much dragon-related Zullie the Witch content recently and to discover now that it was no coincidence and that you two were collaborating for this wonderful and massive video !
Zullie's channel really is like a sneak peak into what the other lore channels are working on
@@mokajones74 I wish I could enjoy that channel, but reading is for people with attention spans, so I couldn't watch it.
Smough also made a Dragon video recently. I nearly skipped this video because I saw “Dragons” and a very long run time haha.
The quality of these videos is just incredible. The music, cinematography, and presentation really make you feel the scale of Elden Ring.
Collab??
wtf? he is actually one of the best Elden Ring channel (more like formsoft-soulslike but you get the idea) his videos are really nice and condensed, even with useful timestamps if you dont have the time or are only there for some specific news@@rdvansloten
love your content
Hey. It's the other guy. From the one channel.
Hey, Ziostorm, love your videos!
This is my favorite lore video on the channel. So much substance involved with the ancient dragons and I love how FromSoft designed the Farum Azula architecture into Caelid and didn't write any item descriptions or dialogue to explain it, letting us draw the connection ourselves as to how or why the dragons and probably their caretakers (Beastmen) migrated or established roots to that region. I know From is welk-known for this, leaving things unexplained or unanswered for us to interpret how we prefer, but this is just one of the coolest examples of it
one thing about the glintstone dragons that i appreciate very much is how they are named.
the first glintstone dragon Smarag is most certainly named after the precious gemstone emerald, which is called a smaragd in german for example, a stone known for its green color.
Adula is what truely made me smile though, because it is likely named after Adularia or the effect of adularescence which describes the blue sheen most commonly found in moonstones. a good fit for Ranni's oathsworn
Nice. Very interesting
Adularia..that’s a beautiful name for a girl.
Wonder if there are unique dragon variants for all the glintstone varieties
- meteorite: similar to fallingstar beasts
- briar: erupts in painful ruby spikes
- crab: literally unstoppable
- night: invisible with invisible fire
-The Nameless Dragon God abandoned Placidusax.
-Marika abandoned Godfrey
*looks at Ranni*
Uh oh...
Oh noooooooo
One fled like a bitch, the other told him to fuck off and die fighting somewhere else.
@@shemsuhor8763she would’ve gone alone but ends up taking you with her.
Haha, suckers.
If you ignore war crime for blue pom-pom, you ranni simps deserve nothing better.
This was just … MIND BLOWING ! Thank you so much Vaati 🙏🏻. Everything from the thumbnail all the way to the ending shot was so gripping. I feel lucky to have played the game more now. The hype for the DLC just became much more thanks to this.
Now, I know nothing about this character, but referring to Placidusax's god as 'The Nameless God' instantly made me think of the Nameless King. Kind of plays into that whole connected universe theory for FromSoft games (at least SoulsBorne) but if memory serves, the Nameless King was a forgotten god from long ago and far away and has tons of dragon iconography associated with him. What with Elden Beasts and Greater Wills and all of that, as well as outer gods, it doesn't seem crazy that the Nameless King was Placidusax's God and would explain the abandonment as TNK is in another world/time
I really appreciate the dragons in Elden Ring because it’s the first time in the series for me that they really felt like a “people” or group. Before you just have Seath and the immortal dragon in DS1, nothing else. In DS2 you have the fake dragon and Sinh, the rest are completely uncharacteristic. DS3 has even less so. I feel like Elden Ring really makes them feel more like characters with their names and unique abilities. At least, for me it did
DS1 also had kalameet
Smoughtown made a great real life comparison by comparing them to dinosaurs. They seemed way more fleshed out in this game while still being ambigious.
One of the things that I like about dragons in ER is that they really feel like a part of the game. They are not something like "one-time event" like in souls series, here they feel like actual inhabitants of game's world - in Limgrave you have basic, fire breathing one, in mountaintops frost one, etc.
Ds1 had kalameet and the one on the bridge in undead burge
@@Tacticalsmile47 only kalameet, the other was a drake
I don't know what's more mind-blowing: The staggering amount of detail FromSoft packed into this game, or the ability of Vaati and his team to rigorously parse it all out.
Both? 🤯
Im already ready for Vaat to drop the 8 hour video essay analyzing the DLC trailer
On god though ,I was just discussing it w my friend and we both agreed let's wait for our man Vaat to drop a detailed video for the trailer
Goddamn, the opinion that every tid bit of deep Elden Ring lore is piece meal and connected mostly by speculation and coincidence is getting harder and harder to argue.
Your research and deep diving into it shows that it's all just too consistent and specific to not be intentional.
The stuff about Miquella's needle needing the absence of time - and all the time related stuff with the dragons and Farum Azula in general, is an amazing piece of detailed lore that noooo one could put together without knowing the full picture of almost everything else. If it were just kind of a bunch of concepts thrown into a pot and scrambled together, it would instantly fall apart when you dug into it and examined the references and connections between things, whether it's item descriptions, character or weapon models, the passive story telling in the environments, it's fucking nutty to conceive hahaha
The notion that you, and other creators can make a career almost exclusively deciphering and piecing this stuff together is an ode to the talent of the writers for these games.
I was convinced before and didn't hold any of the doubts that people usually bring up ("it's not as thorough as you think, it's a skeleton and the players fill in all of the gaps etc etc") but now I am 100% certain these are some of the greatest world building writers that are out there or that there will be. No other game or fictional world, that ive interacted with, comes even close in my mind. It's top notch shit.
本当にそう思います。あなたの意見は素晴らしいです
Best video in awhile, Vaati!
I really like the theory that Azula was once just built in Caelid and a meteor came down, uprooting it and making it float forever. It makes so much sense when you look at architecture in Caelid and Radahn's story, along with what happens to the ground when a meteor goes through in in Limgrave.
This could be a stretch but, when Vaati talked about the similarities between Caelid and the mountaintop, all I could think about was that Farum Azula is literally east of that gap between the two sections of the map. What im trying to say is that Farum Azula could possibly have been that land mass between both locations. Could be the reason why Caelid has Farum architecture, why Maliketh is located in both Caelid and Farum, why Greyoll and the northern section of Caelid is called the Dragonsbarrow, why the ice dragons are found in the mountaintops along with the corpses of the giants and the monster dogs and crows are in both locations. There’s so many connections between the three locations and the placement of Farum Azula so close to both Caelid and the mountaintops that it’s possible that long ago Farum was apart of the Lands Between. A capital in place of Leyndell before the Greater Will. Then, when the Nameless God died (or fled) the ancient dragons suspended Farum Azula in an eternal, timeless loop, tearing it away from the Lands Between. Another thing to add is that you can only reach Farum from the mountaintops. Again, could be a stretch, but it’s possible.
Alexander presumably reaches Farum Azula from Mt Gelmir. But I agree with your theory! I think the giant water fall in between Caelid and the Mountaintops that can be seen on the map (and in-game - particularly visible from the isolated divine tower in the right weather!) could be another clue/piece of evidence in support of this.
i was thinking the exact same thing
@@ThreeWallabies he might have gone as we did, seeing as we can summon him to help with the boss that's gatekeeping farum azula
Like this theory
I always thought that was the case with the matching architecture and everything. Also the landscape looks like a huge chunk was literally removed and put somewhere else
Vaati, I LOVE your longer content. The quality and depth is awesome. I'll watch your 40, 50, 60+ minute videos once and then replay them as if they were audio podcasts. I'm interested to hear your thoughts/analysis on the DLC release date trailer.
Hey first time commenting, I love these videos! Anyway, about Castle Sol's relationship with Liurnia: I remember in one of your previous videos you speculated that Miquella was doing a ritual there, one involving an eclipse to return Godwyn to life. Maybe he was giving gifts to Liurnia in order to curry favor with Rennala! It seems if I was messing with eclipses, I would want an Astrologer particularly connected to the moon. Maybe he wanted her expertise for the ritual? I dunno it just popped into my head binging your videos. Keep up the great work!
I always remember the first time i saw Placidusax's intro cut scene - the two remaining heads reaching up and crossing over - the parallel between the two fingers communing or trying to commune with the Great Will was clear and impactful. From's story telling in their design is as masterful as their written story telling.
Masterful indeed. From’s storytelling is unmatched and very compelling.
I'm not going to lie, as deep and rich as Fromsoft's lore is, without creators like Vaati, I guarantee 90% of it will be lost to literal apathy and/or sheer neglect for non-game play elements from the average gamer. I'd give it's lore a lot of credit, but the credit of story telling to Vaati and not From Soft.
@@henryko4994 While Vaati and people like him do help to make From's lore digestible for the average viewer, it's not without From's lore in the first place that he has material to work with. Further, I also don't think it's to the discredit of From that they make their lore cryptic such that the average player won't be able to understand it; it's _supposed_ to be something that only the most dedicated and attentive can dig up and interpret. If one thing is universal to all games From creates, it's that one must earn their victories through hard effort in the face of great challenge; knowledge, too, is something earned through such effort, as the challenge of understanding the lore is also a signature of From Soft's work.
The game is hard, the lore is hard. Just as with beating the game takes great skill and dedication, so too does understanding the lore take great skill and dedication to comprehend. As such, only those that deserve to know will know because they earned it. That's what makes From Soft's narrative's so compelling to so many; that effort to understand is a large part of the appeal, not a flaw or a detriment.
@@henryko4994well, from FromSofts's perspective Vaati is someone just like you and me.
@henryko4994 it's done on purpose though. It gives you a basic story but if you want more you have to look for it. Very similar to berserk.
Incredible - absolutely breathtaking work as always Vaati.
I constantly watch out for your content and you always lift the boundaries of what are possible, inspiring the rest of us. Thanks for the work, you and your collaborators have done; I know how much work goes into a long video - never mind one of this quality.
Thank you Smough!
For a while there I was thinking that this video length might rival one of yours. Then I noticed your recent uploads 😂
Real recognizing real! Also lmao Vaati
@@VaatiVidya one day video lore 🤣
@@VaatiVidyaOh my god. The lore has consumed this one.
I love your content as well smough, your most recent videos have been great to listen to in the background while killing time at work.
I don't know what to say anymore, I wonder if there is any game where a content creator (and the community around him) plays such a part in the experience of a game. Sometimes I ask myself if it's a good thing for newcomers, and I'd love to hear Vaati's take on this. I certainly enjoy the community aspect of From Soft's games, but isn't that a shame that most players won't have the time, or just know that such a deep lore exist, because at this point it takes multiple full time community members to piece that together. Anyway, I enjoyed every second of this, thank you
Waiting room for Vaati’s video about the new DLC trailer, right here.
I'm straight tweaking, I'm so ready for it
@@delford9089 Same, fam! My body is sooo ready for this DLC.
Admittedly, this video is about more than just dragons. But if it's only the dragons you're interested in, I'd recommend skipping ahead to 55:00 at some point as that's where I discuss most of the named dragons!
Please do Prepare to Cry video for Age of Order please?
A video about the outer gods covering the age of perfect order ending would be an awesome way to conclude the endings series.
@@markhenzel4637I was worried he may have forgotten about it since he dubed the ranni vid the last ending related video.
Have you also done Age of Fracture?
If I ever feel inclined to skip any part of a vaatividya video, then my subscription should be revoked
About the Old Lord's Talisman having four heads: Since Dragons could turn into humans. The talisman would have been worn when Placidusax was in their human form, which would mean the last head would be the one wearing the talisman
That's a very interesting idea! Personally, I think the scarring on Placidusax's chest depicted by the talisman implies that he had been in a major fight at the time the talisman was made and thus could have lost one of his heads before the talisman's creation. If the talisman was meant to be worn by Placidusax himself, and if dragons could truly transform instead of making projections, then your idea could work.
nice catch/idea!
Incredible video kept me engaged throughout a whole day whether I was staring at the footage or playing a game just listening.
The amount of attention to detail it takes to disassemble all the lore and story bits to put it into item descriptions, environments and putting them back together is such a mind boggling thing to see unfold thats why fromsoft games would always be special. Also the people who goes out of their way to piece everything in a team effort matter is such an awesome thing these games does to its players.
BRO that shot at 0:27 where the dragons' maws look like a xenomorph...
Absolute masterpiece material
Mispap does it again
@@VaatiVidya Seriously, your editors and footage capturers deserve a medal! As do you, of course.
I like the idea of placidusax having both male and female heads, it mirrors Marika and Radagon in a really cool way as we have these two Elden lords that sired their offspring with themself
I feel like in a way it also mirrors godfrey and hoarah loux... but they have a different kind of duality
Not mention the duality with the snow witch having both a physical and phantom face
@@soldjaroffortun3 more like binary (intersex?) representation (non-binary would be 0 heads)
Incredible video as usual. I really had no idea there was so much lore we knew or could speculate about for all these dragons.
By far the best Elden Ring lore video you’ve made, in my opinion! This was such a fantastic treat to watch. Thank you for once again delivering a most spectacular viewing experience, Vaati!
Vaati clearly knows something, we are going back in time for the dlc
We aren't hollow, we will have the trailer, we only need to last a bit longer. Ooooooh Elden Ring
The great hollowing is nearing its end @@brendo1143
I mean, every other Souls game DLCs involved the past and/or a culmination of time itself, so most likely, yeah
Think we see him as boss fight
My holy samurai waiting for finnese fights
After months of silence, Vaati has emerged from his tomb to deliver another top tier video.
You should start selling these as "Sleep Aids" because it's going to take me 5 watches to make it through.
Nailed it! Time to get comfy and curl up with a blanket
You mean waited for everyone else so he could cherry pick a video together. And copy their content. Remember Bloodborne and never forget!
@@ChrisHall1337 Hahaha lame. His BB content is why I first came here. VAATI is awesome and you need to stfu.
The narration is on another level.
I've drifted off to Vatti's delicately articulated story telling many a time.
The prepare to cry episodes add such extra insight and immersion to the souls series.
And now with the support he's built over the years, these Elden Ring Lore episodes, now the production level is venturing into award nomination territory.
Absolutely Epic!!
I can't believe I missed this count down. I'm currently helping with Malania.
I'm saving this bad boy for later.
💯🙌🏻🌞
@@ChrisHall1337 isn’t the goal to make easily digestible lore videos? I am not sure what you’re trying to say. Anyone can google souls lore that people have found, the talent is making an entertaining video.
The production of this video was so well done. You can tell it comes from a place of love for its source. Well Done!
Vaati is probably cooking up a storm with the DLC trailer analysis video 😂
such a cool thumbnail 😳
MY GOAT IN THE WILD
A wild Zanny has appeared! Salutations bruhda
Needs some of your touch
By John Devlin! The GOAT
Zanny?
"He is in an eternal state of...maidenlessness." Sounds like me fr
Never has a more relatable character been made
Fax@@Snoke1912
Thanks for the deep dives. These are so interesting to listen to!
I remember watching his lore videos years ago when this channel had a little over 500k subs. So glad to see it growing. VaatiVidya makes such amazing lore. Tbh, if whipped up some D&D homebrew type lore and had images and such to accompany it, id so watch it
1:02:41 here's a fun idea. How about both? It was struck by a meteorite, crumbling the city and raising it. Placidusax, to hold the city in the sky, in case the gravitational magic ever began to fail, made the time stopping vortex in the middle of the city, holding himself within it to preserve the city. Perhaps, with his death, it will crash back down someday
Thing is, there's no suggestion that gravitational magic has had any influence on Azula, and it instead just seems that azula is floating by itself.
@@andreaslois3074 I don't mean to be the "well, actually" guy, but there can be made arguments for two.
1. the Ruins Greatsword:
"Originally rubble from a ruin which fell from the sky, this surviving fragment was honed into a weapon.
[...]
The ruin it came from crumbled when struck by a meteorite, as such this weapon harbors its destructive power."
2. Astel, Naturalborn of the Void,
"[...]A malformed star born in the flightless void far away. Once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky. A falling star of ill omen."
Put these together, and you get two things. One, a sword that fell from the sky, and has Gravitational magic imbued. Two, a being that has fallen through cities. It is assumed, and I agree with this assumption, that Astel, on their way down to the eternal city, struck through azula, imbuing the ruins with gravitational energy, causing the city to float. The city is crumbling because the force of the storm causes it to rip apart, while the vestiges of gravity magic don't allow it to leave the sky, so all it can do is destroy itself while remaining stagnant in the air.
@@Ocelcinion The sword description implies that the city was floating already, and meteors hit it on the way to the ground.
The astel description is regarding one of the eternal cities, not azula
@@andreaslois3074 I do agree that the sword description doesn't fully imply that it came from Azula. That is a bit of stretch, but the reason I make that stretch anyway is because, as I said, Astel may have collided with such a sky ruin on their way down to the Eternal City. Since the description mentions The Eternal City only, we have to reconcile a few facts:
Eternal City was hit by a meteorite (otherwise known as a Falling Star, aka Astel, as the Remembrance confirms). We also know Astel came from Space, and had to break through the ground in order to arrive in the cave we find it in. The problem is, we never see a point of impact. We never see WHERE Astel "took their sky".
Basically, I don't see a situation in which a Greatsword could have been Randomly imbued with Gravity Magic while in the sky, unless the location it was in was struck by Astel on their way down.
Now, to be fair, there is one problem which is that you find the Greatsword in Radahn's castle. Azula may or may not have broken off from Eastern Caelid, so it's possible Radahn could have more to do with this than we think. On the other hand, we can't know that the event that broke off Farum Azula is the same one that gave it magic, and I say "gave it magic" because I believe that the storm is not the sole thing keeping the city in the sky. So either I'm wrong, or it's radahn's fault somehow, or it is astel's fault lmao
@Ocelcinion I do think the ruins greatsword is from Azula, my debate is that Azula was floating from beforehand and was hit, causing it to crumble.
Astel is unclear whether he's related or not, but he did crash in one of the cities, destroyed it and robbed it of its fake sky (which is what the description referred to). There's nothing connecting him to Azula, but nothing going against it either.
Modern dragons: 2 wings. Ancient dragons: 4 wings. Elden Beast: 8 wings. So here's my question: what are the odds that the Greater Will has 16 wings like a Biblical angel? Because that would be rad as hell.
Don't do it. Don't give them ideas. It'd be a boss worse than the Elden Beast!
( kidding. That'd be cool as ###)
I'll also add that malenia has wings in her second phase, of course I don't think it was her true God form but it shows there are steps
Sephiroth: 😒
If we follow this through process then eventually you’ll just reach a sphere of wings.
Which once again reinforces the fact that Kirby is beyond powerful because they have dunked many soul balls.
Fuuuukkk yeahh 😤🙏🙌
All I get out of these videos is From Softwares attention to detail, environment design and art direction is just beyond anything I’ve ever seen
35:36 I think the lattice pattern actually reflects Radagon’s upbringings as a craftsman of sorts. One of the sewing kits (I believe it’s the one you find in Church of Vows) mentions something of this nature if my memory is clear!
1:14:14
Yes, Miquella most likely created castle sol as a way to help Malenia. The eclipse was supposed to cure the Rot God's influence over Malenia, but the eclipse never came, because Radahn was holding back the celestial bodies required to create it. This is why Malenia fought Radahn in the Caelid Wilds. You will also notice that Royal Knight Loretta, who appears in the Carian Manor and the Haligtree, wields Carian magic, but wears the symbol of the Haligtree on her crown. This further implies some relation between Miquella and the Carians.
You mean to help Goldwin achieve true death
Hol up, it's been a while since I've had my head wrapped mostly the way around this stuff. What's the haligtree's connection to carian manor? You fight the real Loretta in Haligtree but what's Ranni's carian manor have to do with Melania?🤯😵💫
@@devonpenner7177
Summarizing ahead:
Malenia and Ranni are both empyreans, and so is Miquella. This means that they have been chosen by the two fingers to maybe become a god someday. Miquella and Malenia were both born cursed however, Miquella with eternal childhood, and Malenia with eternal rot. Loretta, an Albanuric knight for Caria manor, set out to find a home for the Albanurics, and came across the Haligtree, a haven for all kinds of creatures. Miquella let her in, and gave her a sickle made of unalloyed gold. This is why she's found in both places. Malenia, being Miquella's sister, is also in the Haligtree. Malenia and Ranni probably have opposite views on the two fingers, as Malenia hopes they can cure her of her sickness, and Ranni killed the fingers in her divine tower. (This is why you see them on the Moonlit Alter) This and Loretta are probably the extent of their relationship.
@@devonpenner7177 Loretta was an Albinauric and like many, she sought refuge with the Carians but eventually left due to politic changes and because Albinaurics were not seen as people but Miquella's Haligtree accepts all equally and she started to serve him
@Lyko5 ahhh ok ok I hadn't watched the entire video yet so I didn't realize that he covered that exact topic haha cut content saying that the carian knights were supposedly being gifted to miquella by The Carian royal family
I think Vyke's turning to Frenzy makes sense with the Lokey theory in mind. Him going deep within the underside of Lleyendell to find their old nameless god and uncovering the Frenzy Flame only to be burnt by it and self-imposing exile to prevent its spread would be a very cool story.
But Vyke was still wearing his armour when he was embraced so it wasn't a complete process. So if we go down there the 3 Fingers will only see us if we're nekkid.
Wasn’t it just to save his finger maiden ? He might have been corrupted by shabriri… idk
@@anthem_sm Him doing it for his fingermaiden is the likeliest theory
@@pillarmenn1936 What bother me with the maiden theory, even though I'm favorable to it, it's that Vyke's Armor only suggest it:
"Did he make his choice for his maiden, or did some other force lure him with suggestion?"
At the same time, the game tell us it could be for his maiden, and at the same time it could be for something else.
@@ultraphoenix95 Likely an allusion to what Shabriri pulled on us.
I want to watch this again and drink everytime Vaati says 'And so it is...'
I bet the game developers behind the lore aspect of the game absolutely loves when Vaati drops a lore video as it shows there are individuals that truly adore their created world to the extent the developers do.
The dragons' lore is so compelling, there's a reason why I developed my first Tarnished/made a bit of a roleplay of him. I named him Anders Born-Of-Stone, and he sought to emulate the Ancient Dragons. He lived in Farum Azula until the meteor struck and he plummeted to his death, only to rise later as a Tarnished. I used the Draconian preset ethnicity as a basis, I sought out the Scaled set, armed him with the Ruins Greatsword (reclaiming that disaster) + Fingerprint Shield (wanted to know what happened to Vyke) and the Giant Crusher (to avenge the frost dragons and showcase his inhuman strength), and pursued Dragon Communion for those sweet eyes and spells. It was a ton of fun.
Hell yeah
Very cool man RP is my favorite part of the game
nerd. jk that rules
I too had my first Tarnished roleplay related to dragons as a Dragon Hunter instead.
Her ancestors were a clan of dragon hunters, hired as mercenaries by Leyndell when Gransseax attacked the city. When Godwyn made peace with them, the entire clan was betrayed, and only one mother and her daughter survived, they fled on a boat to a far away land and returned as Tarnished. Her goal, to rid the Lands Between of all dragons, both mortal and immortal and kill Placidusax in Farum Azula. It is there she finds his ancestors gone crazy and sporting the powers of dragons, in their desperation, they consumed dragon hearts to survive and became the Banished Knights they are now.
And as a bonus, one of the Banished Knight spirit (the one with two dual greatswords) is directly her father, so when she summons him, it is actually her father that is coming to help. I took inspiration for this from when if you take damage while the spirit is active, the spirit abandons whoever he's attacking and teleports to fight whoever is fighting you instead.
Fuck yeah bro. My Leyndell Dragon Cultist RP build was probably my favorite play through. Totally different build, faith lightning incants instead of arcane dragon communion, but very fun. The Dragons have compelling lore from a lot of different angles.
Farming the Leyndell knight set from that one guy wandering in Liurna at low level was such a pain though. But the rest of the build came together really early.
DS1's Everlasting Dragons: *got killed by Gwyn and his lightnings*
ER's Ancient Dragons: "Well well well, how the turntables?"
Looking back at this comment, it would have been better if I've put "Improvise. Adapt. Overcome." instead.
"Salt makes any meal taste a little bit better" Is such a cold line 🔥🔥🔥
I do love so much your narrative, so plaisant. Thanks for your info collections and hard work to make that video for our biggest joy.
11:48 I think miquella did know that time, or at least plasidusax and the ancient dragons, was the missing puzzle piece. When you pick up miquellas needle, you also get an somber ancient dragon smithing stone, which is said to be one of plasidusax's scales which warps time around it
And we could also question who writes the item descriptions since they seem to be part of the world.
@@dummbobqqqqq the leather armor set’s description suggest that Patches is writing the item descriptions, just like in Dark Souls 3.
@@Y.Moroboshi fitting for our interdimensional traveller of worlds to note the world around him, he is literally miyazaki!
He was trying to achieve the storms effects and manipulate time outside the storm for his needle to work, if only he had his time to finish his works...
@@dummbobqqqqqI don't think they could realistically be tied to a specific writer. So many of the item descriptions would be from undocumented parts of history, or only known by a handful of people.
In many depictions of Hydra and hydra like creatures there is believed to be a "lead" head, one that holds most of the control over the beast. The other heads each have their own thoughts and ideas but collectively they work for the lead head's desires. Seeing as Placidusax is the only enemy (afaik) with multiple heads and very much resembles a winged hydra. What if he is both the dragonlord and his god. His god being the missing lead head. Just something I thought was interesting to think about seeing as we don't know who Marika equivalent for the dragonlord is.
I have a theory that placidusax’s god may be the twin bird.
Like your theory about a lead head. But there are some instances of NPCs/enemies with two or more heads.
D and Ds Armor has two heads.
School of Graven Mages has severel heads.
Twinsage Sorcerer has a two headed Mask.
There are Burial Watchdogs with three heads.
Rykard has a sneakhead and his own.
Fire Giant is a head on a head.
I have literally never heard about this lead head thing
@@aquam135 I didnt really count the depictions of multiple heads so much as actual creatures with two heads. (Ie the mage masks and D's armor) largely because that's all they are. D's armor symbolizes that the twins are connected not that they have two heads. As for the twin sage sorcerer, is there any evidence of a multi headed being that the mask is based on other than the graven mass?
For the watchdogs it's my understanding that they are glintstone machines given life, so they aren't really creatures.
Your other examples (rykard, graven mass, and fire giant) are all examples of multiple entities merging into one rather than one being from the start as with a hydra.
Those are the reasons I discarded them. I get where you're coming from though. That being said the twinbird may be the only creature that I would classify as another multi headed creature though we only see it in depictions on shields and murals.
@@davidpavel5017 in the Hercules mythos the hydra has multiple mortal heads that can be severed and regrow. It also has an immortal head that cannot be killed. It's not exactly a "lead" head but it certainly points in that kind of direction
Mind blown finding out the broken structures you first see in Limgrave are actually from Farum Azula. I always thought they were weirdly placed ruins from Stormveil but they never lined up. Your videos are amazing.
While I was watching this video, right after Vaati said ‘it’s possible to get Yuma to say this…’ I got a ad that starting out with a person saying ‘yeah baby that was fun’. I thought ‘that’s not how I remember that line going’
So, if there was a land bridge between Caelid and the Mountaintops, and Farum Azula used to be on the ground... was that what the bridge was?
makes sense considering the dragonbarrow in caelid and how the giants ran the dragons off the mountain
Exactly what I was going to say
I don't think there was water there in the first place. I think Farum Azula used to be a mountain, of which only the tip has survived the meteor impact
It also makes sense with the geographic position of Farum Azula in modern times.
@@insu_na also makes since this is the only location where a waterfall is found yet the ocean around limgrave is much higher in elevation.
I hope we get to see a black flame dragon. That would be dope
Godskin Trio incoming
Godslayer Dragon
The glaom eyed queens shadow perhaps?
@@blizzardgaming7070 Well that would probably have to be some kind of wolf, rather than a dragon.
A black flame wolf does sound really cool aswell.
I asked the convergence team if they had plans for a madness dragon and they said that there were no plans at this moment but that could change so possibly in the convergence mod anyways there could be a madness dragon and possibly others
This video makes me want to do a Dragon Cult run where I do everything to honour the ancient dragons.
The quality is outstanding, I can't wait to see the armored core video
I always thought the relationship of Vyke and Lansseax was incredibly romantic, when you consider how intense all the red lightning incantations get. And he was able to coat himself with it. Also makes sense in the way that "a crown is warranted by strength"...maybe that's why dragons also become oathsworn to those who can best them in combat.
Nah, not romantic at all. I said so
@@Ravagerblade oh ok then
Why do I have to think about the dragon episode from Rick and Morty lol
@@usamimi-no-majo lol
george rr martin 100% wrote that part in
This is better than most movies that clock in at 1hr 40min. The pacing, visuals, and sheer writing quality are leaps and bounds better than most of what passes for entertainment these days. To put it simply, this reeks of hard work and passion.
Thank you for your videos, so smoothing and calm, love to listen when I work on something fantasy related!
I believe it is stated why Vyke tried to claim the frenzied flame, and it is the same reason many players did. He cared too much about Lannseax and was not willing to give her up to burn the Erdtree. Unfortunately his claiming of the flame was flawed, and he was driven mad, ultimately being sealed away.
"Tarnished Archeologist" makes a great analogy with trees and botanical grafting as explanation for all the different "devolutions".
Hope to see Tarnished Archeologists' theories mentioned in the future - their analysis is always fun to watch
So many lore hunters just seem try to stitch together meaning from explicit lore descriptions, instead of drawing on environmental art or clear historical influence. I appreciate TA doing that, I learn so much about the real world from his videos. And observations that the Erdtree is a clear grafted scion on top of older tree roots (what with the statues of favored root sprouts, of the difference in the old great tree being a gymnosperm instead of beech, and the first character in the game literally being a grafted scion) are so insightful.
his lore is terrible
TA goes beyond any other lore tubers he'sv the best on the subject
arguments ?@@colorpg152
@@colorpg152 Big words can be hard lil bro, I get it
VAATIVIDYA WAKE UP THE DLC TRAILER HAS COME!
Imagine being the literal god of dragons and some tarnished kills you just because they were bored.
In Japanese tornado is called Tatsumaki(竜巻) or dragon(竜) twist(巻).
In Japanese or Asia, dragons are considered divine and said to be able to summon storm.
You can clearly see where they got the inspiration for those western looking dragons
Also thunder is called Kami-nari(神鳴り) or God(神) sound(鳴り) for it was believed that god were the ones shooting the thunders.
What I want to say is that you guys are awesome that you’re able to find answers even with missing hints(sometimes)
I think these are staging to show that stakes are getting high.
although it is translated to dragon,
Asian dragons and western dragons are fundamentally different in that Asian’s are god to be worshipped and one’s in western mythology are usually a very powerful monster to be slain.
I think modern dragons are essentially a western dragons waiting to be slain and die out while elder dragons Asian’s are the gods who can only be defeated by other gods or someone who is very close to god
Facing them, u can feel that progress
あなたの考えは素晴らしいです
The scope of history in Elden Ring is astonishing to me. This story stretches across millenia (and if Enya is to be believed, tens of millenia). This was my first FromSoft game, and to have different historical periods to identify within a fictional land is a level of world-building I have never seen vefore
Check out Tarnished Archeologist if you haven't, he does videos talking about what you can tell from the environments and buildings, because it's so detailed you can get a coherent archeological narrative out of it.
George RR Martin has an immense talent for writing layered history littered with myriad of detail.
Just wait for dlc, some answers will come but more questions, and some answers will change.
@@Boss_Fight_Wiki_muki_twitchMartin just added all the incest and political intrigue. He isn't that great.
Ah yes GRRM famous for not finishing his stories
Eternal maidenlessnes 😭💀
I love you man. These deep lore things I miss while playing make the game feel so much bigger and cooler.❤
"Placidusax is in a state of eternal maidenlesness"
I felt this on a spiritual level :(
I always liked Placidusax and the ancient dragons and their lore. But i can see there was more to learn of the other dragons. I really liked this video Vatti.
My man, when are you gonna do a series on Lies of P????? That game is a masterpiece and has not gotten anywhere close to enough love as it should be getting.
I can’t wait for your video on the DLC trailer. I had no idea what was going on, please enlighten me!
one thing that came to mind during the ancient elden ring chapter was a method I learned in school: when chopping a tree down, you would cut a lattice/checker-like pattern into the stump to slow its regrowth/aid in decomposition.
...which COULD be something but I dunno 🤷♂just one of those weird coincidences maybe
I was thinking about the nature of the dragon's missing god, and I developed a theory (apologies if you have covered this already) that I believe ties up some loose ends in the lore. You reference early on that at one point we suspect that the two fingers and the three fingers were one (for convenience, let's say the five fingers).
If true, then the five fingers are what was originally sent to the land between as the representative of an outer god, and the five five fingers acted as its representative in prehistoric times. As I see it, the five fingers were a combination of two aspects: order (represented by the gold color) and passion (represented by red). This was the god of the ancient dragons, who utilized the power of this combined aspect (lightning, a spell of order in the modern times, but infused with the red passion that makes it stronger). Items related to the crucible having a color scheme containing both red and gold further supports this. Finally, the outer god is described as the "greater will." To have will means to have 1) purpose (or passion) and 2) specific focus (or order).
However, something happened. At some point during the crucible, the two fingers (order) and the three fingers (passion) separated from each other. Because passion without order is uncontrolled chaos, the three fingers were sealed away to prevent the total destruction of the land between, and those touched by the three fingers suffered uncontrollable passion, frenzy. Meanwhile, the unalloyed order of the two fingers controlled the lands between through the Erdtree (which also served as the prison of the three fingers), creating a regime of passionless order. It was order without purpose, direction, or intent: order for order's sake, and it eventually drove the denizens of the land between mad. Those physically changed by the three fingers saw their changes (like the horns of the omens) grew uncontrollably without any order to guide them. Followers of order became austere, lacking in passion lest it be seen as a betrayal of order.
It is unclear to me what happened, but whatever it was destroyed the crucible and left the Erdtree and the elden rune altered. Perhaps the combined fires of creation grew out of control and ripped the five fingers apart. As "crucible" can also be defined as a "test," perhaps the five fingers failed somehow. At any rate, my theory is that the ancient dragons are indeed waiting for their god to return, but their god never did because it had been broken into two aspects. The greater will cannot effectively influence the lands between because its two aspects are no longer on speaking terms--the two halves of the messages are not being combined, and so the greater will's influence is being interrupted.
I could go on about the duality inherent in representatives of the greater will, but I've rambled long enough...
that was cool. I'm actually very fond of dragons, have been since I was a kid. but I am also fond of listening to gaming lore, so this was a wonderful treat to listen to and enjoy
Some of the theories definitely feel like reaches where there is little evidence, but they do make some sense, and I often think you do a better job at sticking to the item descriptions than other youtubers. Awesome job. I love long lore videos.
The lore of all from software games is just always so ... enchanting? Grand, and magical. Mythical and all the good things that dark fantasy needs. You carry us through this world with your well thought through script and soothing voice. These games and your videos proof that entertainment can be more than that. Thank you for that!
They forgot to give the main character any personality and even a voice. It was awful.
@@alexnorth3393 That's because you're meant to almost RP your own character.
@alexnorth3393 you *want* a voiced MC? Was Fallout 4 not a good enough example as to how that sort of thing is actually detrimental to the RPG experience?
100% agree. Blows my mind how people can come up with such incredibly rich lore like the fromsoft games. And also how people like vaati can capture that so concisely in these videos
@@alexnorth3393you're the main character supposedly filling in the gaps when you're not mindlessly bonking things
I feel like I saw a twitter thread forever ago probably by Quelaag taking about Vyke's lore and the reason why he sought the 3 fingers is because he learned about how he would have to sacrifice his maiden to complete his quest and he couldn't bear doing that so likely Shabriri in some guise told him of the 3 fingers and how to completely the ritual at the mountaintops without sacrificing his maiden. At some point he was stopped and imprisoned up there before he could do it though.
He's wearing his armor when you find him, which has been melted with fingerprints imprinted on it, implying he was wearing it when he communed with the three fingers, so there's also the possibility that he missed a key step of the ritual.
It's silly that you don't get to save Melina by taking the three fingers, burning the erdtree and then curing urself
@@lordjzargo7940 to be fair, in universe that plan in of itself is a huge gamble, not only with all the process to even get the true needle, but then also manage to enter an area outside of normal time in order to use it then, and regardless, she had already accepted as her inevitable destiny, so she takes the communing with such destructive entity, even if only to use it as alternative to her as kindling, as a deep betrayal
@@lordjzargo7940you can save Melina, there’s no special game ending sadly but you can sacrifice yourself then get rid of the frenzied flame.
@@Chronoanime666- The problem is you might not be getting rid of the frenzied flame when you use the needle. Malenia wasn't cured when she got the needle from Miquella, her rot just stopped spreading. When she stabbed herself and broke the needle in the trailer it allowed her to use her rot powers and to bloom on Radahn. Similar to how Malenia's rot wasn't cured with the needle, our character might not be cured either. Which means that if the needle ever was to break, the Frenzied Flame would probably burn the world since your character becomes Elden Lord. Melina likely didn't want to take such a giant risk, especially since her purpose in life seems to be to burn the Erdtree.
hearing about the dragon cult items in Faram Azula reminded me of the teleporter at The Four Belfries. perhaps the citizens of Leyndell used this to aquire dragon cult incantations and may even be one of the reasons Radagon allied with Raya Lucaria in the first place - to gain access to Faram azula.
Chop chop lore man, where's my 3 hour video breaking down every frame of the SOTET trailer?
With regards to Placudisax's heads being labeled as both male and female, we see this same representation of divine hermaphroditism embodied by Marika/Radagon, also within nature itself in various species of flowering trees/plants. Divine hermaphroditism is also featured pretty heavily in alchemical mythology as well, which this game's lore is steeped in to a large degree.
Love these new long form lore deep-dives, Vaati. Thanks for everything you and the other lore-masters do for this community!
When you think about it there is a high likelihood that the two heads of Placidusax are the dragon equivalent of Marika and Radagon. Two beings that are now one, but still distinct individuals. But seeing as so much about them is shrouded in mystery we probably won't know anything for certain until fromsoft releases more info.
What if he was the god AND elden lord, and the chopped off heads are the god-part that fled? just an idea lol
@@zaidlacksalastname4905just imagine in "elden ring 2" fighting and killing a decapitated dragon head, now that would be crazy.
@@planetgodzilla473it’s a secret boss in armored core. They made it into mechasaxx
I always thought that the statue of the woman + 3 dogs in Maliketh’s arena was placidusax’s nameless god at the moment the first beastmen were given their intelligence (I feel like this made far more sense rather than Marika or Miquella). Given Placidusax’s nature, I’m now wondering if that statue could’ve been a human form they might’ve taken? It fits the theory that Placidusax was both god and elden lord just like Marika/Radagon and like what Miquella was seemingly trying to do by becoming St. Trina
On the question of whether Farum Azula was already in the air when it was struck by a meteorite, it's a tough one. The Ruin Fragment description says they are "believed to have once been part of a temple in the sky". We know wording is chosen very carefully in this game, and to me the way that's worded implies that Farum Azula was whole at some point when it was in the sky.
The Ruins Greatsword is a little harder to parse: "Originally rubble from a ruin which fell from the sky, the ruin it came from crumbled when struck by a meteorite." But again, it seems like Farum Azula was already in the sky when it became a "ruin", with pieces of it falling from the sky only after it's destruction. It also feels too well-preserved to have survived being destroyed on the ground and only then hoisted into the sky.
This does leave us with the question of what magic allowed Farum Azula to float, if not gravity magic from the meteorite. I feel like time and gravity are somewhat interwoven thematically: Radahn uses gravity magic to hold back the stars, but in doing so they seem almost frozen in time. Dragons are often referred to by their stony nature (with gravity magic often involving stones also): Fortissax was called the "mightiest boulderstone", and Greyoll is likened to a mountain. It could be that the time-twisting magic of the ancient dragons also allowed them to manipulate gravity, allowing Farum Azula to float above the Lands Between.
Regarding the last part, I'd assume just wind magic. It is quite common, and / or they are in a locked fall in time. Forever falling but never moving.
Gravity magic is also so closely tied to stone it's not funny. With such a huge gap in our knowledge of the history of the Lands Between, we don't know what type of magics were around during and before the age of Placidusax. In real life, Gravity is theorised to be the only force that isn't manipulated by time, in fact, it's quite the opposite. Time is manipulated by gravity so your theory is very plausible. Again we see your theory having a lot of validity when we look at Radahn holding the stars in place like they're "frozen in time" and how it affects Rannis fate. It's almost as if her time is frozen in place due to Radahns gravity magic
If you want to know where farum azula possibly stood before, follow the trail of the worm guys to their forest...just my speculation but the landscape there is quite "below" the other area.
From color theory , it is interesting to see gravity magic being recolored. It could have been blue but it became closer to red by becoming purple. Either it purely serves game mechanics, or it is connected to the red blood goddess inbetween space . Radahns red hair comes to mind as well. Red plus blue = purple.
My hypothesis is similar to TA's; That there was a near cataclysmic impact far in the past, possibly the golden star if not something before it, which caused a huge gravity distortion that Farum made use of. Then the airborn Farum got hit directly by something beeg, but not big liek xbox, which also destroyed the eastern landmass connecting Caelid to the mountaintops.
Alternatively, maybe they reversed the polarity on the divine towers.
I just want to put into perspective how good you are at making videos that anyone can watch without needing any previous videos to understand it
Amazing video dude, the artworks realy help us engage with the lore
It's also important to note that the banished knights can use dragon comunion incantations.
There seems to be 3 faction that banished knights fall into only plate follow godrick red cowls are dragon communion followers and black garb soldiers are under nialls command
not all of them. only the ones with red capes.
I think there's something worth noting here: Placidusax is said to be waiting for the return of their god, but it is waiting in the one place in all the Lands Between where the influence of a god cannot be reached, and its body and that of their kin are all arrayed in a way to prevent any divine influence from ever reaching them. So, it is unlikely that this reunion that Placidusax is waiting for is some kind of tear-filled and joyous reconciliation, and is more likely to be a vengeful reckoning.
This tracks when you consider what gods have long been like throughout the history of Elden Ring. Every one of Marika/Radagon's past consorts have been betrayed in one way or another. Godfrey was cast out as soon as he had finished slaying all of the enemies of Marika's order. Renalla was gifted the golden egg, a poison chalice that damaged her mind and left her unable to rule. Then, when Marika and Radagon ruled as one, they betrayed each other. Even when married to herself, Marika could not stop betraying her consort.
Further, in Crumbling Farum Azula, we're given indications that beasts once served Placidusax, the beasts being granted thumbs in exchange for betraying the dragons and serving Marika instead. However, given the treatment we then see non-humans like the demi-humans receiving afterwards, we can see how that deal turned out. Marika betrays everyone, over and over again.
But wait, Marika was around at the time of Placidusax? Then doesn't that mean that she could very well be the god that Placidusax is waiting for? But if so, then why did the dragon never go to confront her? Well, he is. But not in the present. Here in the modern age, Marika is too strong and Placidusax too weak. Rather, he and his subjects are rewinding time, trying to return to a time before Marika betrayed them, before everything went wrong. They are trying to end the Golden Order before it can begin.
Consider all the enemies and bosses we meet in that domain. Beastmen, godskins, everyone with a legitimate beef with the gods are there. All of them are trying to hitch a ride to the past, to a time before betrayal left them diminished and destitute. In the modern era, they can't defeat Marika and the Elden Beast. However, if they rewind time to the past, they can end her reign before it starts. Even Maliketh is here, hoping to ride the storm until before the theft of the rune of destined death, seeking to undo his failure and redeem himself.
Farum Azula is a time machine, filled with people who were screwed over by Marika and the Golden Order, all hoping for a do-over.
This is incredibly well written and thought out, and I completely agree with your assessment. Badass comment right here.
Your first statement doesn't really make sense. Even after Marika sent Godfrey away, he still remained loyal to her and the Golden Order.
He literally defends the Erdtree from the Tarnished that would be Elden Lord.
Furthermore, there is literally no indication that Marika was around during the age of the ancient dragons, where did you get that idea from?
There's also no indication that any of the common beastmen of Farum Azula ever betrayed the ancient dragons nor that they followed Marika. As far as we know, they have only ever served the ancient dragons.
Gurranq/Maliketh is the only beastman that served Marika, and that's because he was chosen to be her shadow by the Greater Will.
And lastly, I think you're forgetting the part where the Golden Order were on friendly terms with the ancient dragons. The two factions became allies after the war, so I don't see why any ancient dragon or beastman would want to destroy the Golden Order.
Overall, I can tell you put a lot of effort into your theory, which I respect, but I highly doubt it holds any weight.
impatiently waiting for the trailer breakdown...
41:26 Or if, perhaps, it struck a ruin that had already fallen from farum azula; as the wording of the item seems to imply.
Vaati: Superserious almost 2 hours video of ER lore.
Also Vaati: Lego Yoda death scream in 2:32
Never change xD
Something to note and, correct me if I’m wrong but when you get the final version of the needle you also get an ancient dragon smithing stone. That is, at the very least to me, a hint that Miquella did know about the time component, but was unable to either fuse the needle with the stones time warping capabilities. Or Miquella did not merge them in time (no pun intended) before mogh took him from the haligtree. That’s my thoughts on it.
32:08 Was that a parry?!
Edit: Incredible video; a truly momentous effort to explain the dragons and their history/importance, in full.
This was amazing.
Were you to ever become a movie director....you would change the artistic history of humanity.
Thank you for all that you do.
I am a audience from Hong Kong. My english is not very well,but I really love your videos such as secries of elden ring lore and prepare to cry. Especially the styles of telling the story. And I hope you can provied some transcripts of the videos, because i want to shadow and imitation your sounds, pronunciation and intonation which I think it can very useful to improve my English skill. And I wish you can make a video about Death Stranding cause I think it interesting too. This is my first time message in CZcams and I very thank you for your unforgettable video. Thank you!
1:05:57 This shot kind of brings attention to an interesting parallel - The dead giants in the ground in Caelid are kind of analogous to the ancient dragons buried in the ground in Farum Azula.
LOVE these videos. been binging the playlist today after Ludwig watched 2 on stream the other day. so well done.
My theory about farum azula's time twisting properties is that placudisax actually has direct influence. Placudisax is still alive there in the past. Because he is entangled with that location in the past, when we lay down and become part of the land, we are then entangled with the land and become part of the moment in time affected by placudisax's presence. This only happens because we are not immune to time, just like crumbling farum azula. So we can be manipulated just like the land. For placudisax the arena isnt destroyed like it is for us, so by being at the same place where placudisax was, for him it could be the same thing as us just being there normally since its the same physical location, just different time location.