Runescape Doesn't Need Nostalgia | Asmongold Reacts
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- by @J1mmy • Runescape Doesn't Need...
► Asmongold's Twitch: / zackrawrr
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Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmongold
If you own the copyright of content showed in this video and would like it to be removed:
/ catdanyru - Hry
thanks for watching Asmon! If you want to hop in a call and dive deeper into this, I can try to articulate some of this stuff better. I think it really is confusing for anyone who hasn’t played the game to grasp just how much is going on in the game that counters nostalgia.
It's not nostalgia at all.
A huge majority of players did not want the combat changes and wanted it reverted back. it's as simple as that. The combat changes completely changed the entire game from point and click boss to ability based gameplay. 2007 was the only backup of the game they had available I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). I never played back then and started in 2009-2010 (I miss summoning 😢) but it was the style we were most familiar with. The reason we played runescape and not WOW. Once EOC happened I did try it out for a little but it just wasn't for me.
Back then people flocked to private servers and others just quit!
I started playing in 2019 I had no nostalgia for it.
This is my biggest problem with people who critique osrs. They haven't played it, we've all tried wow or its many clones
Im sure his youtube editor for his vod reload channel will tell Asmon you commented.
I hope you can get in touch with him, way too much history and poor decision making to try and squish into a single response video and have him understand without back and forth discourse.
We didnt want Osrs for nostalgia, we wanted the game to go back prior to Evolution Of Combat, EOC completely changed the way the game was, it changed the game into wow, which we did not want.
So much this! EoC fundamentally changed how RS was played and the backlash was so bad that Jagex were FORCED to compromise by introducing the Revolution feature, in order to preserve the point and click combat aspect of the game. Unfortunately the damage was done, and it did nothing to address the combat imbalance in PvE and PvP, nor fixed the itemization issues.
RS never recovered from that fuckup.
I think the initial sentiment is partially was nostalgia, but the major part was that the New Runescape (RS3) isnt no longer the feel or atmosphere of what Runescape suppose to be. What i mean is the fundamental of Runescape changed too much is what made OSRS triumph over RS3
Most PvPers went to Old School a few years ago as well because the Runescape 3 wilderness has been neglected since warbands was added over 10 years ago.
Wanting things to go back to how they used to be is the definition of nostalgia, the size of the change you want undone is irrelevant.
that's part of it. The microtransaction hell was also part of it. The trade restrictions. Etc...there was tons of reasons. EOC was your biggest reason, but for me, it was all the MTX
The truth is, Nostalgia is the AD for Osrs. But the gameplay is what keeps you playing, not the nostalgia.
Ive been playing since 2007 on and off and sometimes get nostalgia in game but not a lot
I have a HIGHLY conservative(I'm not talking politically) friend who lives in the past, anything that he was doing in his childhood and enjoyed, he is doing today.
You guessed it, he plays runescape, that's almost all he does. People think nostalgia is always strictly contained to the game(or object or whatever) itself, but I'd argue for most people nostalgia is more something that reminds them of a time.
It was never even about the game that much, it was about the time. You know how we know Runescape is held up by nostalgia, because we aren't stupid. We can see the game for what it is, a point and click browser game that was extremely limited(though did well with what it had). And is still limited because the developers and playerbase are highly conservative.
Thats also how we know it's driven by nostalgia, because the community is highly conservative, people like that do things because.... wait for it..... THATS THE WAY ITS ALWAYS BEEN DONE. We aren't stupid, I don't need to watch a half hour video of someone trying to defend the game as if they have to protect their identity because it's so intimately tied to the game. It's driven by nostalgia, so what. The game fundamentally isn't that great, it's alright, almost pretty decent I'd say, but it's not great by any stretch of the imagination.
But for conservative people, it is. And for many people when it came out and for several years after, it was. It's cultural, it's nostalgic, it's a long time habit, it's their home, it is what it is.
Can you imagine someone coming and trying to tell you how great pong is, because when they were a kid they played pong and smoked with their buddies and it was just such a great time, but they didn't tell you none of that, they just try and tell you how great pong is like... It is what it is, pong was probably quite fun when it first came out, but lets stop talking out of our ass and be straight, it's old, it's too slow, it's one dimensional, it's literally black and white lol. There are much better improvements to pong that exist to everyone who didn't grow up having a great time with pong.
It's like talking up a 1960s car(oh and people do), like the suspension sucks, it's uncomfortable, it has bad MPG, the acceleration sucks, it breaks down often.. Lets talk fucking straight forward, it's annoying beating around the truth.
Either way when these OG OSRS players die off(bless them), our point will be proven.
If nostalgia was the biggest factor, I'd still be playing world of warcraft.
The continued development of OSRS into what it is right now has kept me here.
Nostalgia won't ultimately keep you around though.... I don't understand what your saying here.
@@MrNatebethell there you go you dont understand lol but his point is clear
@@FEARBUNNY nostalgia was the biggest factor for immediate success which lead to continued development
@@Deya1337 It wasn't very successful starting out though. Player count dropped down to 14k pretty fast. So obviously nostalgia alone wasn't doing anything at all for retaining players.
Years of updates and content added to the game and now we are at over 100k player count. To chalk all that up to nostalgia is pretty simple minded.
@@Deya1337 The point is that it's CURRENT CONTINUED SUCCESS is not based on nostalgia. It released in 2013 and within a year almost completely died off with less than 20k players BEFORE they started vote updates. OSRS success for 2014 until 2024 is based off new things, new design, much deeper mechanics. Nostalgia and keeping the game in the 2007 version for almost a year, almost killed the game.
That is why classic is dying, because nostalgia doesn't last.
In 2012, sentimentality was not driving the demand for OSRS. Jagex fundamentally changed the entire game over night and simply ruined it for large swathes of players. This was done with very, very limited support from the community. Almost everyone I knew quit the game immediately.
Reverting to a classic version of the game inescapably evoked nostalgia, and I'm sure that accounted for a non-trivial chunk of the immediate success. That does not mean its continued success was dependent on that sentimentality, nor that the game would fail without it.
In my opinion, and the opinion of many RS/OSRS players, the fundamentals of OSRS are superior to what were given after the Evolution of Combat in 2012 (as well as many other MMORPGs). Beyond that, knowledge of the many balancing/content troubles of post-2007 RS allowed OSRS to avoid many of the pitfalls the original game fell victim to. I feel nostalgia when I see RS from 2008, 2009, 2010... But I would not trade them for OSRS as I believe OSRS now is the best RS has ever been.
It is unknowable if OSRS would succeed in isolation with no history. I don't think it matters too much either way. I think the game is hyper addictive and fun with an amazing community. I think that contributes far more to its current success than nostalgia ever did.
Nailed everything 👌🏼
Amazing input and have to agree with quitting right away on release and not coming back till major gameplay updates happened and made it feel like a "new" game.
For those who don't know who @Gudi is, he is a former Jmod(worked for OSRS/Jagex) and his opinion is valid for many osrs players. I am an rs3 player and understand why people enjoy osrs so much.
Small jab tho rs3 combat > OSRS combat :)
Amen to that! I feel nostalgia about 2008 runescape with the new graphics and the red dragon tutorial. I never played 2007scape with the old graphics. Osrs actually felt pretty novel to me and only started playing because it was the "new kid on the block". The most nostalgia I've had was with Darkscape and the OSHD client, which was closer to what I had played in my childhood. Great updates such as CoX and ToB is what has kept me playing.
It is 100% the best RS to date. Nostalgia got me to play it, the evolution of the game, great community, and great devs kept me playing it.
I don't think Jimmy's point was ever that there is no nostalgia involved. His point was just that nostalgia attracted an initial audience and the game found its actual success and growth off of great updates.
Isn't Asmon's opinion the same then? He's saying nostalgia is a big piece of the 'pie' why people got attracted to the game in the first place, but not the only factor.
@@centurionxiv6905 Yeah they were arguing the same point, but it seemed like Asmon didn't quite pick up on that. (the pause at 21:34 as if to prove his point, but J1mmy was agreeing with him)
@@centurionxiv6905 No they don't have the same opinions at all. One is saying 60%+ of the reason people play is only from Nostalgia. One is saying it's under 20%. If asmon agreed and said that it was only the case in the beginning then it would be the same. He's not. He's saying the CURRENT players are mostly playing only due to Nostalgia which is false. He doesn't play runescape so how would he know? He has no knowledge of it because he won't change his mind and understand he's wrong. He's assuming it because WoW classic was done poorly. It has nothing to do with why osrs is popular still.
@@pewfles5913 I never played classic wow but ended up playing it much more than I played retail. I am also a casual MMO enjoyer and only have like 500 hours in wow. I never played classic but it's undeniable a much better game.
@@centurionxiv6905 No they aren't quite saying the same thing. Jimmy is acknowledging that nostalgia for the game exists, but that it isn't a factor and Asmongold is saying that it is the biggest factor for why the game still exists.
I think that the game would have never survived the early years when it launched in 2013 without nostalgia, but I agree with Jimmy that in 2024 Nostalgia plays no part in why people still play the game or why new people decide to give it a try.
Ive never really watched Asmongold before. Ive now seen him react to two different Jimmy videos. And its amazing to see a person so incredibly unable to admit that hes wrong when he was such limited knowledge of a topic. Dudes staring at awakened leviathan and says "this is the original game".
OSRS wasnt started for nostalgia. It was started because jagex fundamentally changed the game they made. Imagine if they took WoW and decided one day to give it Skyrims combat system and you as a player has no choice in the matter. It was an insane decision that they had to walk back.
Nostalgia requires a feeling of "ahhh just like it was in the old days". Almost no OSRS players want to play the game in the original 2007 state, it wasnt nearly as good a game as it is now. The game would have died years ago if that's what they relied on. Or, as Asmon puts it, if it was a significant slice of the pie chart.
With the exception of the graphics, osrs is unrecognizable from the game it started as, and thats a good thing.
Also, unrelated, but the Brighter Shores argument is so weird? It's not a similar type of game at all from what I've seen.
another good comparison. It is that different. its not even remotely even close to being anywhere near the runescape we know. it is like Wow turning into skyrim and all of a sudden its "nostalgia" that we want to play wow and not skyrim?
He was so insistent on it being about nostalgia that he refused to acknowledge any other reason. I only started to get into OSRS last year after watching a THREE HOUR video essay about it called "Runescape is awesome and here is why". The difference between OSRS and something like WoW is that OSRS is the epitome of rewarding your hard efforts. In real life, labor and jobs suck - work environment sucks, taxes coming out of your paychecks suck. But in OSRS, you are REWARDED for your hard work. You level up skills and EARN everything you get. Asmon likes to talk about seeing someone with Thunderfury in Classic WoW and being genuinely impressed because you actually have to do something to earn it. No P2W. OSRS is the same.
Yooo that’s the Marstead video! I never knew anyone else watched it, it is so massively underatted I watch it every few months while grinding. One of the best gaming documentaries i’ve ever seen.
Asmongold is basically in his own echo chamber, and appears to be experiencing some delusions of grandeur. The guy's takes are fairly skin deep, which his audience tends to respond to as profound wisdom, and is often just bizarrely overconfident in his own opinion, which is predictable for someone who spends alot of time alone and on the internet. I'm really going off him - seems like he's forgotten he is a streamer who plays games for a living and not a philosopher, psychologist or economist, and unfortunately it shows whenever he steps out into those things
asmongold completely misunderstands j1mmys point, he falsely and with no proof implies that the game is growing and is succeeding because of old rs2 players but this just doesnt matchup, nostalgia doesnt grow a games numbers CONTINUOUSLY for 10 years
@@KeytarArgonianthat video has over a millon views btw
It's so weird that Zack sits there and mentions how the two games processes mirror each other without either realizing or mentioning the fact that the ONLY reason classic wow mimics OSRS is because OSRS did it first.
It was making me salty how he's like....BUT WOW DID THIS.
NO. WOW DID THIS BECAUSE OF OSRS. YOU HAVE WOW CLASSIC BECAUSE OF US
@@kaikash bro I was waiting for him to be like "THEY COPIED WOW OH MY GOD!" I swear I had my fist balled ready to put a hole in my monitor.
I get what you’re saying but I disagree. I think the reason they brought back classic is because there were private servers with a huge player base. Blizzard did it not because OSRS did it, they did it for the love of 💵. But opinions are like aholes. Everyone has one.
@@ServeMySoul777 not talking about why they brought back classic, but the choices they made after they were definitely trying to run it like.OSRS did
@@hunterh1033 gotcha. I misunderstood 😅
"we want the old thing back" not because of nostalgia. Because the new thing is fucking terrible.
Yeah mostly little kids who only knew pking with a mouse, left the game. Ngl I disliked EoC too, but learnt to like it and couldn't imagine spending time on a pixelated world lol after the graphical update. Bring RS3 graphics to OSRS and it'll see even higher player influx. Currently its bots, people with 5+ accounts and 12 yr olds who are now 24+ who keep OSRS running.
it's terrible only because you have nostalgia for old thing. you don't even understand how deep your nostalgia goes. it's in your dna. examine yourself.
u can kinda say the same thing to classic wow vs retail, no? even tho retail has its playerbase, i do hear that the new version of runescape is trully garbo so maybe not exactly the same thing, idk
@@PowerfulVillain Ya bro RS3 doesnt have pixels u right. Lets care about how many pixels people prefer over the meaningfulness of the content.
Keep spinnin ur daily keys lil bro. Don't forget to spend your loyalty points in the shop for faster XP rates in game. Oh there's also some new outfits that just dropped, you don't wanna be the dweeb NOT wearing the new $20 zamorak transmog set, what are you, poor? 🤡
@@Jalae All of this happened within a year and the outcry began practically overnight . The difference was a complete overhaul of game play it's like going from chess to checkers and saying hey lets go back to playing chess i like playing chess more. If you want to call it nostalgia then go ahead but a lot of people attribute nostalgia to a fleeting feeling of a perceived "good old days". Not I want what i had yesterday that they took from me.
I think the point baldy is missing is that. People wanted Old school runescape because it was a good game and the better version of the game. Nostalgia is a fleeting feeling, the good gameplay is what sticks
And also further, which since he doesn't play is fine to miss, but playing the game in 2007, and playing OSRS now is a completely different kettle of fish. So much that you'd probably be upset it didn't match.
Remember Day9's speach of how he as a new player to World of Warcraft could tell you why classic was a better experience for him than retail? It had nothing to do with nostalgia in his eyes, and could simply tell you what was better game design compared from one to the other.
As an OSRS player of over 20 years, Brighter Shores doesn't look good nor even resemble Runescape mechanics so i'm a bit lost on the argument here?
asmon seems really confused about runescape in general
Yeah it makes no sense, they are 2 totally different games. That's like saying cod is successful because of halo nostalgia.
Sure they share the same genre and are both fps but they're totally different games and ip.
@@ihaven0thingnotevenaname881no. Runescape players Did NOT want EOC. Millions of players quit instantly when rs3 came out. It isnt nostalgia for most, it's simply put. OSRS is the version we all loved and cherished and did not expect eoc to fuck it all up
Asmon and many other MMO players simply don't understand the integrity the core devs such as Mod Ash have. Wow only had it for a few years. Every MMO sold its soul. Including RS. But RS3 shields OSRS. No one has properly articulated this. Every item you get on RuneScape actually is tied to some type of real value. Like it or not, OSRS is equivalent to the worlds strongest currency and every other MMO is just trying to build that type of economy and they can't because they all go for the quick dollar.
@@apricot2879 Yea at the time of EOC rolling around I had basically a maxed main an maxed combat zerker an 60 atk pure. So if OSRS didn't come out for me to do it all over again I would of kept playing EOC for a bit which I did. Didn't say I liked it, I liked osrs combat but by the time OSRS had come out I had started to take breaks from runescape and eventually stopped not long after(because of EOC).
So when I seen OSRS was coming out it was 100% nostalgia thinking back to the good times that got myself and all of my friends to play again I went an maxed a main and made countless pking accounts and that was before any real decent updates. When updates did come out I maxed an iron man, I then maxed a HCIM an lost 2 around 2k total. So coming from myself who has spent thousands on thousands of hours playing OSRS an only stopped recently for a break I can say that nostalgia is a big factor I have certain songs come on when I'm not even at my PC an all it reminds me of is playing RS as a kid with my mates.
I feel like nostalgia is a big part of getting people into OSRS at first, but it being a genuinely good game is the thing that keeps people playing
Virality is the real reason. If what you say was 100% true, everyone would be playing Guild Wars 1 instead. People play what other people play, nostalgia be damned. Clicking on a tree for days on end doesn't sound like a good game at all. It's a glorified screen saver.
@DyceFreak clicking trees is less than 1% of the game dude lol.
@@Joedirt32 I like how you didn't refute any of my other points and went for the low hanging exaggeration.
@@DyceFreakyou can play runescape to end game and not click one tree
@@DyceFreakbecause it's wrong, the other points are subjective
It is frustrating to listen to Asmon talk about OSRS when he has no idea the history of Runescape, but I mean, it's kind of impossible to explain it to someone who wasn't there through all of it so I cannot blame him at all. Long live OSRS
If someone wrecks your car, and you want your car back, nobody would say you're nostalgic for your non-broken car. That's what EoC did to Runescape, wrecked it.
8:00 "we want the old thing back" does not mean automatically you feel NOSTALGIC. you are just aware of the product that once have been and you want it again. nostalgia from the other hand is feeling good about the memories that makes you want to relive these moments once again. simple and subtle difference
Nostaligia is actually the pain of NOT BEING ABLE TO RELIVE those moments again. So it's ironic that you even try, because that actively overrides the feeling of nostalgia. Its like trying to go back to a family home that was sold to another family decades after the fact. That's not your home anymore. You CAN'T go back, that's not how nostalgia works.
@@DyceFreak I disagree, I think the pain is the result of realisation that you can't do anything to relive these nostalgic memories. So it's an emotion created as a result of nostalgia but is not a nostalgia itself. wouldn't you agree?
I was going to comment this 💯💯 i agree
@@DyceFreak If you had good memorable moments in a game, and a new game doesn't give you the same feeling. You'd naturally try to seek out the aspect of the game that gave you those good moments. And if it no longer has those old features that you liked, you'd ask for them to return. Isn't that nostalgia? You're yearning to relive those moments again? People are going too deep into the semantics of their own personal interpretations of the word nostalgia. Also, nostalgia has nothing to do with pain.
You are totally right.
Steak is good.
My mom used to make steaks and I haven’t eaten them since childhood. Nostalgia doesn’t change the fact that steak is good.
corollary: steak is only good because your worldview is founded on carnist nostalgia. vegan nostalgists don't like steak and never will.
ya asmon likes soda. I'm assuming he liked soda as a kid.
asmons enjoyment of coke/pepsi/dr pepper is purely nostalgia based.
@@Jalae youre comparing feelings with just taste and its totally different...but anime profile pics tells me that everything you think and say is through the woke lens therefore is a corrupted and distorted version of reality...kinda like silent hill with normal and nightmare worlds...youre stuck in the nightmare one
@@Jalae they just lie for themself....
@@kokocaptainqc ??? Woke lens? Silent hill? Are you okay buddy? Stay off twitter or tiktok or whatever is rotting your brain to talk like this.
Asmond got mad about the facial capture thing and remained salty the rest of the video. 🤣
as someone who only started osrs a couple years back for the first time I completely refute the idea of the game not being good
Asmongold doesn’t understand that the RuneScape players didn’t want or ask for a certain year of RuneScape we wanted them to stop making trash update after trash update. It’s like they change the flavor of Coke and people say oh you just have nostalgia for the old flavor. No, I was enjoying this and you just changed it and now I want you to change it back.
20% nostalgia
Nah I remember people hoping/asking for 2006scape since it was the golden era for many people and had to settle with 2007scape since it was the oldest version they could use.
@@shadowknight7432007 was used for osrs cause it was the most recent version saved. Yeah there was a demand for earilier times but that niche was fufilled by private servers for the most part.
@@shadowknight7432006 was the best in terms of balance.
@@shadowknight743 yeah fax thats exactly what it was for me lol, why tf do we still have the wilderness ditch....
Asmongold looked up the definition of nostalgia on stream, and still managed to not understand the meaning.
When he dragged in the actual definition I was like "Okay so he'll actually get it now" and just noooope
How so? Did people not have a longing for the past version of the game after what they did via RS3? Is it not the definition of nostalgia for people to want things or have a deep affection for things that happened in the past?
@@Roge9they did….these people are 100% coping but no one else is buying it
@@KeiTruck_JDM It's very easy to understand. Nostalgia implies the sense of sentimentality even if it's irrational. Players wanted it back because changes to the system were garbage, not because of some sentiment. Do you feel nostalgia when your MMO client updates and it's bugged but you want to revert it to previous version?
@@simfilesymlink4593 the sense of sentimentality is 100% there….the OSRS community isn’t any different from other communities….this is normal….not sure why some of yall want to act like you are exempt from what everyone else feels
The main reason so many RuneScape players switched to Old School is because of EoC, not nostalgia.
Asmon missed the point that we didn't want OSRS because of nostalgia, we wanted a version without the last few updates that completely killed the game, it has nothing to do with the 2007 version. The 2007 version was the one that went live because it was the last version of the game that was actually saved in a complete form in a separated driver. All the subsequent versions, apart from the live game, were lost because they used a different way of saving. Also, it's only oldschool in name, as it's a completely different game from what it ever was, even the history line within the games are different.
Additionally, the petition made by So Wreck3d, the one that got 44k signatures in 2013 and made Jagex open the votes for OSRS, never once mentioned nostalgia, only the bad updates that the main game had.
Nah that's still nostalgia
That's nostalgia. Nostalgia doesn't have a time requirement other than it must be in the past. If your favorite game comes out with an update today and you want it back like it was yesterday that's by definition nostalgia. Nostalgia isn't inherently a bad thing so why fight about it
@@bon3d3th In other words, nostalgia is now past. From now on, everywhere in the world, the meaning of nostalgia is the same as past because Asmongold and bon3d3th said so.
@@Arthurocha yup basically
@@bon3d3th if WoW was overnight updated to be something very close to OSRS, tick based combat system, point and click and all the other shit, would the WoW players who want it put back just be going off nostolgia? Or maybe because its a findamental change to the game in every concievable way?
The EoC update was basically a new game with the same map and thats it. I wont argue nostolgia isnt involved at all, but its BY FAR not the biggest factor, not even close.
I think Jimmy is arguing a different point to Asmon. Asmon is saying we're playing the game for nostalgia even after all these years since Old School launched. Jimmy is saying nostalgia is what got us playing but that fresh updates and constant support is what's keeping the game alive and why it's in the best state it's ever been in.
I like to think of Old School as someone took a time machine back to 2007 and warned the devs of all the mistakes they were about to make. We've now got an alternate timeline where the devs can make a live game that continues to receive updates but avoiding the mistakes they made the first time around
yeah, OSRS now is so far removed from what stuff was like in actual 2007
And the mistakes they continue to make in retail RS
I think they are both right, a huge majority of players are playing it because it’s the same mechanics as the game they loved back in the day (nostalgia)
If eoc never happened, veteran OSRS players would have only “taken breaks but never stopped playing”
But now because it’s a re release of an old game asmon is calling a big factor nostagia, which would not be the case if jagex never made that huge change.
Someone like asmon who never experienced the original game changing in that way would always assume nostalgia is why people play it.
If OG wow kept going in the “classic” direction and never lost its player base, it wouldn’t be considered nostalgia that kept people playing it
@@WayStedYou I agree with J1mmy for obvious reasons, but as for what you're saying, there is familiarity but overall you're not wrong. For starters fullscreen used to not even exist, so right away it's not going to be the same experience lul. Once you get to a certain point you will assuredly run into things that used to not be in the original OSRS, there are also armors and clothing that are new so that's another way it could be instantly not as recognizable beyond the locations and graphics when you first log-in and see the game. Asmon is still confusing "nostalgia for the game" with "general liking of the gameplay loop/the game itself", IDK what he's not grasping. If you dropped the game now, it would be retro-looking and yes graphics matter, BUT he is underestimating the gameplay strengths. As in, how addicting it is once you get into it. For example, Among Us is an objectively ugly game with Club Penguin esque graphics and that was popular.
sounds like a chicken or an egg discussion, I think they are both correct and people play for nostalgia and to check out the new stuff they added recently as well.
J1mmy isn't wrong. OSRS has evolved so much over the years and it has mostly stayed true to the OSRS feeling because they actually have core pillars to hold themselves accountable to the spirit of old school. Classic WoW is just a money grab where Blizzard is willing to add the shop, but not any meaningful QoL because that would require effort.
They also focusing on the wrong things in SoD instead of following what Turtle WoW is doing.
It's hardly changed and the reason it's hardly changed is the spaghetti code they run, they change anything and half the game breaks down.
@@seanowens3153 Explain to me how @Wallcraft_Official creates/codes the craziest things in the Vanilla client?
The private server scene has proven time and time again that custom content in the spirit of vanilla wow is easily possible and highly successful as well.
Completely true.
False. The OSRS "feeling" has shifted drastically in the last 11 years. The stuff that gets pitched and we approve of now would never have been considered 10 or even 8 years ago. The core of osrs now is literally nothing like it was in 2013.
People think that pray flicking and tick manipulation is the "osrs feeling"... but they couldn't be more wrong. in 2007 like 5 people even knew about that... and none of them told anyone. In 2013... like 0.5% of the people playing knew that existed. It has certainly become the OSRS feeling, but it evolved to be that starting with inferno.
he has become physically incapable of admitting there is even A CHANCE that HE MIGHT be wrong.
J1mmy's argument was generally weak. I think there was a moment where Asmongold was considering the viewpoint more seriously, but J1mmy repeatedly called back to nostalgia as the reason the game is still popular, but his argument is summarized as "It's not ALL nostalgia..."
It's not an indefensible position, but it was a weak argument.
@@TheMechanicalCoder32 you didnt get his point then either like asmon lol
@@TheMechanicalCoder32 you didn't get it lol
good thing he's so right here
@@lightningfrom9396 Go ahead and enlighten me, wise one.
Saying OSRS is fueled by nostalgia is just entirely wrong lol. Literally all it does it make people return to the game, but it doesn't keep them. I put 1800 hours into osrs in 2023 and maybe 1 hour of that was because of nostalgia. I tried multiple times, 2017, 2019, 2020, to get into osrs. Each of those times I'd go fish in an old nostalgic spot for half an hour or so, and then log off and never log in again. Nostalgia does not keep people in this game. Period.
Do people who never played Overwatch 1 want it back because of nostalgia?
No. It's because it was a better game.
Not everything is nostalgia.
yes. nostalgia is in the past. the things that aren't nostalgia very few. "nothing new under the sun."
@@Jalae so nostalgia is just a meaningless word
@@Jalae so if i just ate ice cream and think "wow that was really good" im having nostalgia? wtf is that? no.
I always have nostalgia for not being sick. I remember fondly the time when I didn't have a stuffy nose and looking back always make me appreciate the old days.
He wants to be right so much it's not even funny...
That's the definition of nostalgia.
As an OSRS player, I'm not interested in brighter shores. It's not runescape. It's an instanced based mmo, not really comparable.
The area movement is so weird
Very little actual gameplay footage has been shown, but yah I agree. I‘m down to give Brighter Shores a try mostly because it is being made by Andrew Gower, but I have no plans on leaving OSRS for it.
Brighter Shores will be the best game of all time after pre-eoc rs noobs.
@mandrue73 don't get me wrong, I think it might be a great game, runescape is just so big I have a lot to do and don't want to start that all over again.
@rs4cool hah, each to their own. It may be an amazing game, and I wish all the best for the developers' success with it.
How does a game gain new players on nostalgia, if the new players have never experienced nostalgia towards said game?
No, Asmon. People aren't guessing, they're the actual playerbase telling you how things actually are and how they feel. The actual crazy thing here is that you're going against facts, of the people who actually play the game telling you that it's not nostalgia. It's really not hard to understand.
This is delusion at its best.
Asmon's arrogance sometimes is unbearable. Once he's made up his mind, he's not gonna listen to anyone.
I don't think people play OSRS for nostalgia. Every friend I know that plays OSRS has played since fucking elementary school. People never wanted to stop playing OSRS. The only reason any people stopped playing OSRS is because they had to. The OSRS player base had their game taken away and said they wanted it back, that's not nostalgia, that's asking to let them KEEP PLAYING the game.
This isn't a case of the servers stopping, then 10 years later people ask for the game again because they miss it. It's not comparable to WoW either, nobody complained that they wanted classic servers when TBC came out because they missed vanilla, they wanted classic wow when the current game, expansions later, was becoming stale. The more I watch Asmon the more I'm convinced he will never admit he could even possibly be wrong about something in an authentic way.
This exactly
Exactly. Jimmy is the most well spoken member of the RuneScape CZcams community.
He nailed every point and made it pretty clear why RuneScape is running on more than “nostalgia”
But this dude just looks for places to pause and act like he is right. Jimmy threw in a little “yeah maybe the music is nostalgic FOR ME” and this mf asmon acted like that quote discredits the rest of the video.
"I don't think people play OSRS for nostalgia. Every friend I know that plays OSRS has played since fucking elementary school."
Exactly. Find one player that hasn't
@@Birrin There are plenty. Personally got two of my friends started just last year, they didn't play it at all growing up - I did. They caved and tried it with me but ended up falling in love with the game and play it even when I'm not logged in now. Nostalgia can be the hook for some of us that played it growing up but I think it's disingenuous to be spurting out that nostalgia is the *only* reason people play or enjoy it when the game is vastly different today than it was in 2007. What keeps people playing and getting new players in is a solid game that got brought back and has continued to be built on top of with new content.
The first month of OSRS launching saw about 60k players at its peak. About 20k concurrent within three months after launch.
Now, the peak for this month was 150k players and about 120k concurrent.
If nostalgia was such a big factor, how did the player base quadruple in size?
You can only attract original players with nostalgia, but it won't grow the game because those players will eventually leave, and no new players will come. If what Asmongold said was ever true, the game would've died a long time ago. At one point, OSRS had less than 10k concurrent players.
Bots, the game is infested with them, theres more bots than real players
do you think new player gonna play that shit?
@lerzhula9454 I hear that lie so many times. If that were true, the gold selling market would be saturated years ago. Essentially, you have to believe that at least 51% of players are botting gold to sell to the 49% of the players 24/7 for years. For that to be true, every one of the 49% of the player base has to be buying billions of gp every week for years.
@MoMo-if3nh what we think don't matter. Let's look at the player numbers. How come right now there are 4x the players base than it initially had at launch? If people play it for nostalgia, why were they not there when the game initially launched and only joined a decade later? It is an honest question.
@@MoMo-if3nhas a new player who began playing osrs just a year ago. Yes, I do play this game, because the community is cool and the game is great, especially with the insanely good recent updates.
One of the biggest reasons that would cause Asmon to conflate what the driving factors are for OSRS is that his frame of reference is WoW Classic, BC, Wrath, etc. Which are ultimately the same game that was already played experienced from start to finish as they were back in 06-09.
I don't think he's actually able to grasp that nostalgia isn't doing any of the lifting in OSRS because it is not the same game as it was in 2007, it is simply the framework that is the same, but the content and the gameplay loop is new.
We're experiencing a new game, built on the excellent foundations of 2007 RS. We didn't want to go back in to reminisce, but instead to drive an entirely new experience using systems we enjoyed. A do-over.
Are there some things that are nostalgic? Yes, when I turn on the OSRS music once every 2 years, it hits me, for around 2 minutes, and then I turn that off and dive back into content that did not exist in 2007.
Nostalgia is a fraction of a percent of the contributing factor. But people that do not play the game as a primary game won't be able to see that.
But ask yourself, 11 years from now, will SoD be driven off of nostalgia or the new content that that version of the game has. It will be the new content. You won't even recognize the 'classic wow' part of it.
Nostalgia is the reason OSRS took off initially. It is not the reason that it continues to grow.
Nostalgia can only be true for those who played 2007 Runescape. But what about the thousands of people who didn't? Probably a lot more than that. Going by a blog post of theirs I found, runescape had 1 million registered users in 2007 or so. OSRS currently has over 50 million registered users. Lets take the bots away, the ones who had registered an account and then quickly moved on, lets remove 90% of them. 5 million is still more than 1 million.
Nostalgia does not work on those who never played 2007 runescape in the first place. There is no "wish for old" because they never experienced said old in the first place. It is the game itself that is drawing in people, not nostalgia.
truest of true
Osrs player here . I agree with this . And also I think for most old players nostalgia definitely hits , but it is not a factor that keeps me playing the game , it is a super chill game when you want it to be , there is no other game I can just go do something else with I'm tired of queuing arenas or raiding like in wow . RuneScape I can go farm runs or birdhouse , maybe quest there's so much to do , you can be max account and still have plenty of goals
This is me, never played it as a kid but if I do play now its always OSRS.
do those extra 4 million players know osr exists without the initial BOOM of nostalgic players? without all the coverage of "oh look jagex did the thing." when it was announced?
ditto this, i had never even heard of the name runescape until like 2016 and never played osrs until 2021, now its my favorite mmo of all time.
Never touched RuneScape in any of its forms until two years ago, now I’m hopelessly addicted to OSRS. It’s just a really fun game, plain and simple.
I didn’t touch the game until 3 months ago, I’ve been hooked since.
Welcome to the hotel california 😃👍
100%
I think whats really attracts people is the Runescape brand itself. The name is famous in the gaming landscape, so even if you never played runescape yourself, you most likely heard of it. And the reputation behind the brand is what brings everybody to try it. If Runescape never existed and Jagex released it as a brand new browser game in 2024, nobody would care about it. I doubt it would be nearly as successful because it wouldn't have that fame behind it.
Same here, i only started a few months after GIM was released and never played it when i was younger
I think where asmon loses Jimmy and vice versa is how osrs started out. Jimmy is saying that at the time, osrs was created because of the eoc and how much people hated it and that it evolved because of the lack of nostalgia. whereas asmon is looking back on it as they created osrs because of nostalgia, ignoring the fact that eoc basically changed the game you were playing by changing a fundamental part of the game like that. They're both correct if you view each timeline in a different manor, like it being created because the game changed or because of nostalgia.
New player that's never played before: "Boy this game sure is Nostalgic."
Osrs is so different from the original 07 runescape now. Imagine if classic wow was released 10years ago and got 2 or 3 expansions that were different from retail wow, would that be classic wow anymore? No. Nostalgia doesnt help osrs as much as people think it does, its about the same help that gets old wow players to try to play retail wow for a while.
This, I was there in 2006/7 playing the game as a middle schooler and I was there to vote in osrs in like 2012/13. It was for nostalgia at first. But the game has had so much added that it's almost a completely different game just with the old graphics. Unfortunately I don't really play anymore because of that feeling, it don't feel like the game I played in 2006. It's still a fun game to play though and I have many hours into osrs.
@@GamersSanctum 100%, i played r.s from day one. i will never forget where I got my first 99, the falador massacre, the rise and fall of zezima, the g.e turning seers village into a ghost town...my god i was permanently muted for cussing and i still played for years till they literally changed their policy and i was magically unmuted. the game started dying for me with the new combat system, i quit completely after the introduction of 120 skill mastery. i still log on once in a while to walk around and see the old places and the memories once again..nostalgia.
doesn't change the fact that if runescape came out as a new game today barely anyone would play it. you're nostalgic for the game, gtf over it
@@SlackerMagician I disagree it fills a niche that no other mmorpg fills, the only game that comes close to it is Albion online.
@@SlackerMagicianYou're high. Runescape would absolutely be successful as a new game today.
The point is flying so far over his head
that's because he's intentionally ducking it, got all the graphs and numbers you could want and he just says "nah"
He ducks it by saying “this is just my guess”
@@H4rbing3r No person who doesn't have a nostalgic attachment to the old runescape is invested in or plays oldschool runescape. He's not ducking anything. It's 90% nostalgia.
@oxsila literally I do, never touched the game until over a month ago, have over hundred hours and still going strong, there is no nostalgia for me. And not for the 4 million other players who joined after osrs launched. It's crazy to think someone who never plays the game has any idea why the game is loved in comparison to those who actually play it everyday.
@@oxsila I do. Playing since 2019, have thousands of hours on temp game modes alone, where I've been placing high on the leaderboards.
I was playing about every mmo out there since 2009, and not one coming close to the quality and satisfaction im getting from osrs.
Nowadays pretty much only playing osrs and rarely teaching raids in gw2. Very hyped for brighter shores
It was nostalgia after the first few months, but now its just no other MMO hits the same. Not even close. Every other MMO puts you on rails, and has you collect x mushrooms, or kill x rats. and that repeats until the end game where people usually say the game gets good. Runescape is good from level 3 till the vary end ( Except runecrafting)
I'm surprised Asmon had such a hard time understanding what Jimmy meant when he was talking about nostalgia being short lived and not usually worth it for companies to invest resources into something solely for nostalgias sake. Osrs would just be called Runescape right now if RS3 hadn't been released(like the players at the time had voted and protested against). It simply has that name as a literal term, it's the "older" version the player base would probably be actually higher if Jagex hadn't flubbed so hard.
I think there is a huge misunderstanding of Nostalgia here.
Imagine you bought a new game, and were enjoying it for a month. It was your favourite game, and you wanted to continue playing it for years to come.
now, here comes the developer who suddenly said, "sorry we are removing this game forever and replacing it with this new and improved version. You will no longer be able to play the old one."
So what if you do not like the new one, and you were enjoying the previous one? Is that nostalgia? This happened over a much more gradual period with OSRS than a month time frame, but is the time frame the only difference that makes it nostalgia? Can those players not simply have liked the old version of the game and want to play it again?
Nostalgia comes with the connotation that it is for sentimental reasons, or often a misremembering of a previous time and forgetting the negatives. This is why Jagex and Blizzard had the same stance of vanilla/old school before releasing them. As displayed by Jimmy's player count graphs, they are right about that. The people who were there for nostalgic reasons tapered off quickly after the initial release of OSRS.
As for why people in their 30s are the current demographic, that could be for a number of reasons. Runescape in general came out when those people were young, and it was huge. Those people who experienced it and stuck around have gotten others to join them in playing, but they go to their friends for that who are the same age. It is just how word of mouth works. For example, I got a brother of mine into it, who previously thought the game was incredibly stupid when we were younger. Additionally, zoomers and gen alphas have the attention span of a potato, so it simply doesn't meet their interests. That isn't nostalgia, that is just preference and target audience.
There are very few games that came out that long ago and are popular with younger people. The average age of players for things like League, Dota and Counterstrike have gradually increased. Is that because of Nostalgia?
Well said! I was thinking the same thing with your first example. Surprised no one else said it
Well said ^^
Well said dude 👏
You're right.
You're right.
I know several people that only started playing OSRS in their 20s and they are far more addicted than I am… and I have nostalgia
i started playing this game when i was 15-16ish and still play on and off till this day(18). There's a weird charm on it that none of the many mmmorpg i played dont have.
I know several people in their 20’s that don’t like the game and hate it way more than I do… and I have nostalgia.
That's me. I have nostalgia instead for games like Spyro and Ratchet+Clank.
I will not be playing those games for 4k hours
I maybe played the game once or twice on a library PC in middle school but got into it in the pandemic and been loving it so far. Dont really have any nostalgia cause I never really played it before.
I agree with asmongold more. Nostalgia isn't the only reason why people play but it is the biggest reason. Imagine if Runescape never existed and nobody knows this IP at all and Jagex released this as a brand new browser game today, I doubt many people would be interested in it. Obviously the game doesn't look very attractive for 2024 standards so most people wouldn't even look twice at it, much less make an account and try it.
Osrs was never about nostalgia, it was about pre EOC update. Osrs does its own updates.
Asmon is too sociopathic to understand what 'nostalgia' is. He just looks at the definition on google and thinks "So people want the old version of the game, that's nostalgia." Well no, people want the literal better version of the game before updates completely ruined the game. It isn't about being sentimental or re-experiencing old memories, it's about wanting the better version of the game, without the MTX and before EOC.
It's also important to realise that nostalgia is very short-lived. The same way if you rediscover a song from your childhood, you feel some intense emotion/nostalgia for it initially. But after you spend a few weeks or months listening to it over and over, the more it just becomes another song you like.
Nostalgia is a vague sense of bittersweetness, a beautiful connection to your past that makes you feel like you're reliving old memories from a long time ago, and that may have helped OSRS in the beginning but you really think people are still feeling nostalgia after they've played thousands of hours? That just isn't how nostalgia works. It's just another game they like now. Any strong feelings of nostalgia are mostly non-existant at this point.
Exactly. People might make an OSRS account to feel nostalgia, but nostalgia is not what keeps them there.
@@KrateKarrot But nostalgia got them there. The video creator jumped the shark when he tried to claim that nostalgia has no bearing on OSRS's success.
Don’t you know? Asmongold is the smartest guy in the world and never wrong about anything, ever.
Haters lmao
@@UpWithTheSickness nostalgia defo attracts a lot of players, but it is not the reason they stay. If people played osrs for nostalgia, they'd play for a month and then quit. But osrs has 10x as many active players now than it did in its first year
They're definitely arguing different points . In 1985 coca cola released new coke and it flopped, was discontinued in 2002 and coca cola was brought back as coca cola classic less than three months after the introduction of new coke. I think it would be weird to say that coca cola is primarily a nostalgia drink as many people who drink coke were not alive in 1985 and online games only stay alive by introducing new players constantly so i think the argument here is that its success is not due to nostalgia(it might bring some people into the game at the start) but its just solid gameplay that keeps it running
Nostalgia is a shortlived feeling.
It's when you get into a 90's car and remember being a child in such a car. You long for those days when you had no worries and your parents just drove you to places.
It is NOT nostalgia, when you start driving and realize this car is infinitely better built than the modern pieces of crap that we have. It's more of a pleasure to drive. It doesn't need constant expensive maintenance. It's just a better product. Realizing that as you use the thing, is NOT nostalgia. It's rational behavior.
The same thing happens with OSRS players. We might get hit with nostalgic feelings as we hear that one soundtrack from our childhood. But if the product was not good compared to the modern equivalent, we would quit right after that wave of feeling passes over. No. It's just like old cars and new cars. The old ones are just objectively better designed products, for the needs of most customers.
Preferring the older product IS NOT always driven by nostalgia.
And when it is, it is very short lived.
The reason why oldschool games sell and grow well. Is because developers making modern games, keep making shit. When they make good games, they absolutely dominate. Helldivers 2, Baldur's gate 3, Elden Ring. All modern releases with up to date visual styles. But they are good games and people love them for it.
Asmon made the definition of Nostalgia so broad lmao what is this.
"If you enjoy the game, take a break and come back, its because of nostalgia"
Wanting to play a good game again, is nostalgia? what.
Are all League players nostalgia players? Or maybe the games just good and worth coming back to for the gameplay???
"I feel like im crazy" you should.
Buddy if i made your pizzas with just pepp and cheese & suddenly a year into this am dropping nasty pineapples on that shi*.
You asking me to remove the pineapples/make it the way it used to be made is chasing nostalgia?
Literally yes. You liked it better in the past so you want it to stay that way. Just because it's nostalgia, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
@@romofin That's literally not nostalgia. Wanting something you had previously at some point is not nostalgia lmao.
If everything in OSRS was exactly the same in a modern MMORPG, it would be one of the best MMORPGs. It's not about nostalgia, it's about a good game.
id love an mmorpg where EVERY SINGLE NPC gives a quest....and dont get rid of 90% of NPCS to make it happpen duh....imagine you walk ina huge city and everyone has a quest marker on their heads....completionnists drool
If any modern MMO came out with the same click and wait combat of OSRS it would be dead on arrival.
Nostalgia brought me to OSRS but I didn't last long after that. Years later I was surprised that people were still playing so I gave it another try and this time realized the game had far more depth than I previous thought. The game's depth is insane and that is why people are playing not nostalgia. I really don't think asmongold realizes how hard OSRS is in the end game.
I think Asmongold is the one that doesn't understand how Nostalgia works. Nostalgia can be the initial hook as to why someone comes back to a game ,but if that player CONTINUES to play that game it has nothing to do with Nostalgia as its no longer the past but the present.
Saying you play osrs for the nostalgia of 2007 RuneScape is like saying you play dragonflight for the nostalgia of classic WoW
Beautifully put
THIS
This is exactly it. The game is entirely different.
missed the point entirely, old school runescape is not the same game from 2007, it's become it's own thing. Also people didn't want to play osrs out of nostalgia when it launched, they wanted to play it because the devs released a bad update and they wanted to play the version before that update. You latched onto the low hanging fruit "it's called old school and has the funny meme music" and never let go throughout the whole video.
A large Part if the playerbase would return because of nostalgia I quit the game after the game getting worse and worse and came back to old school because I remembered the good old days but also because the game was better back then just because there is other reasons doesnt mean that nostalgia cant be among them
And as asmon said if runescape was released today I wouldnt have played it because I have a computer so much better then back then
I have so many more games and better games but nostalgia keeps the game afloat for me I still reminisce to the old days as I play now and then the good and bad
Yeah a bad, MAJOR update to the game that was famously so bad it broke the community into two. What's funny is the HD update circa 2008/2009 was something I actually kinda preferred (at the time) as someone who played since 05/06, and they ran the server back specifically to 07. Hating updates that change the game fundamentally =/= Nostalgia for the old game. They preferred everything about it objectively speaking.
It's not uncommon for asmon to completely miss the point 😂
doesn't matter to his point. why do you hate the term nostalgia? does it trivialize the game you like in your mind? best get over yourself. 99.999% of all successful things are founded on nostalgia. Read Ecclesiastes chapter 1. learn something about humanity.
@@Jalaeyes yes and more yes, please stop lying to yourself as if this game is still playable or fun or even remotely worth your time. I am 31 now and i can safely say i will never play certain games because they are just too old looking and the mechanics are slow or not worth it. Also we are past the internet now everything that is a game should be somewhat playable offline by yourself to always save progress. The amount of friends and people i know who quit games because they fucked up the online in some way is insane and then they don’t play for years and then find another game to play until the same thing happens. But yeah runescape is dead let it die completely please. Play a better game with better graphics.
As someone with a max cape in osrs (so 2277 skill total, 99 in all skills), and an infernal cape, and tons of experience in PvM in the game, nostalgia may have brought me back to the game originally but it didn't keep me playing. A lot of people may pop in for a moment out of nostalgia, but it is not enough to keep you around and engaged in the content and such. I fell in love with it as an adult in a way I never could have as a kid, as I began to understand how deep the systems can be in spite of the apparent simplicity, as you start to learn things like prayer flicking, 1t alternate flicking, fast gear swapping in combat, etc. Not to mention so much of what is there now was never in the original 2007 game, like we now have tons of bosses and literally none of the raids were in the original game. So yeah I mean I agree with Jimmy in a lot of ways here, and I feel like the perception that its just a nostalgia game is one you can only have if you're on the outside looking in.
If saying you want things to stay the same = nostalgia?
I think there's a distinction between preferring the "old way" vs "not wanting change" that a single word of nostalgia doesn't quite explain.
Oldschool Runescape didn't spawn due to wanting the old way, it spawned because people didn't want the Evolution of Combat and Runescape 3 updates.
He doesn't understand. The only nostalgic feeling is the "early game" there's so much added to the game that "nostalgia" isn't almost a factor at all. Also the reason players wanted OSRS in the first place was because they didn't want to deal with EOC (evolution of combat). OSRS today is not driven by nostalgia, but driven by updates that players vote on.
Doesn't matter how much new content there is, people are nostalgic about the core game that has largely stayed the same. The visuals, UI, sound, combat, quests, etc. The game is driven by both nostalgia and updates, nothing wrong with that.
@@romofinthat’s like saying you’re nostalgic for classic wow while playing dragonfly
@@romofin The core game has not stayed the same. Players have found new ways to play the game that have changed the "core game" to be completely different from what it was.
The game is not driven by nostalgia.
@@Poooppoop22 No it's not. Dragonflight is a closer comparison to RS3. OSRS still has plenty in common with the actual 2007 game.
@@EntitySteel Yeah they've found new ways to play based on the core foundation of the game. All that tick manipulation and gear switching could be done back in 2007.
Asmon still fundamentally not understanding OSRS...truthfully he wouldn't be able to play it anyways because players would swarm him all the time. Someone get Charlie to explain osrs to asmon please.
Fantastic idea actually. Maybe he'd understand.
I think there is a big difference between wanting to play a game you played long ago cuz it reminds you of your past and the good times and wanting to play that game cuz it was legit better back then compared to now.
I think the distinction is that nostalgia would have been wishing for the Old Game, for the sake of feeling the same way you used to. In this case, RS players were wishing for a Better Game, for the sake of a better player experience; which was coincidentally the old game.
For a smart guy, Asmongold can be really stupid.
He's great at speaking with confidence. Unfortunately, that confidence often prevents him from taking a step back and thinking about what he's saying. His whole argument here is a meaningless hypothetical.
I think Mr Gold is stuck on the semantics. He's using nostalgia as "we want it like it was before because it's how it was when we were young", when the actual player sentiment is "we want it how it was before because it was objectively better".
The problem is that he should define nostalgia first and then check if things match the definition. Because he's using it now as a huge umbrella-term for everything that reverts back to an old state.
asmongold completely misunderstands j1mmys point, he falsely and with no proof implies that the game is growing and is succeeding because of old rs2 players but this just doesnt matchup, nostalgia doesnt grow a games numbers CONTINUOUSLY for 10 years
I love that Asmond's reactions of disbelief were all of Settled's game modes 🤣🤣
It seems like he’s purposefully misunderstanding everything the guy is saying.
the brighter shores comparison is so fucking stupid LMAO, like, we had wow killers for 20 years now, and none survived 30 days either, and the reason wow survived wasnt because of nostalgia, was because it was better and had an established playerbase, the way osrs will outlive brighter shores no matter how modern it feels
I don’t understand why he made that comparison either. Just because an old RuneScape Dev is making the game doesn’t mean it’s going to be a RuneScape clone
@@acen486 To be fair it isn't just the devs. It's the 3 brothers that actually created Runescape. It's still a stupid comparison though.
Asmon does not understand what nostalgia means. At least not in this context.
Brighter Shores will be the best game of all time, all other games will die.
@@rs4cool a noble sentiment but mistakened
The reason OSRS exists is because of the release of EOC to RS2, not because people were longing for a much older version of the game. Imagine you were leveling up your character on an fps game, and one morning you wake up and it is now a tower defense shooter hybrid game. That's how RS players felt; they just wanted the combat system from the game that they had just the other day before the bombshell update. We only got a 2007 server because that was the most recent full backup of the game (according to Jagex).
Does it exist because of nostalgia? No. Is nostalgia a driving factor to get people into the game (esp being a 2007 backup)? Yes. Is nostalgia a huge factor keeping players around years later? No.
I'm sure nostalgia helps get people into the game, but after a short while the stronger effects of nostalgia wear off and you are left with the game itself. Jagex have added MANY updates to the game over the years, and while staying true to a more oldschool-style, many new updates and mechanics are substantially different from what true OSRS was.
TL;DR - People just wanted to play RS before the EOC update (sudden bombshell update overhauling entire combat system), and what they were able to give us was a 2007 backup of the game; nostalgia prob helps here, but likely wears off after getting the player's foot in the door.
I just cant see a reason why would nostalgia keep the player playing the game for thousand of hours. IMO the thriving factor is the game itself not nostalgia.
I started playing OSRS in 2018 with zero prior knowledge of the game's existence. I got hooked and now I'm nearly maxed on my latest account. Nostalgia has never been a factor for me, but the gameplay, bossing, quests and overall mechanics have kept me here and got me even more deeply addicted than I've ever been to another game!
Including all the FromSoftware games.
"Sentimental" is the key part of the definition you read that you ignored.
Wanting an older product (of a month, a year, or a decade) because it was a better product isn't wanting it /for/ nostalgia. People might also have nostalgia for the older product, but in this case they want it primarily for reasons related to quality - not to warm fuzzy feels and rose tinted glasses.
EXACTLY. And he completely ignores that, because he KNOWS it doesn't substantiate his earlier claims.
Just because it TOOK so long to get what we wanted, doesn't fundamentally change it from 'desire' to 'nostalgia'.
example a 25 yo dude who is looking for a '70 charger.....its not because he had one back then and remembers it....
Nostalgia will make you like something and go back to it that you wouldn't like if the first time you tried it was now. Its the same way I like Neverwinter Nights and I can play it. But I'm objective enough to know if I tried it for the first time today my opinion would be very different. My nostlgia for it and familiarity with it automatically grinds off so many of the rough edges.
@@Ralathar44nothing to do with the argument
@@thefakebriskeh nothing to do with the argument
A couple of my mates never played RS2 back in the day and have tens of thousands of hours in OSRS now. The game's good on its own merit for sure
Even some of my normie friends got into it
What does Brighter Shores' success have to do with the argument? If you are going to tie Jimmy's argument to it, then you will also have to tie every remake/remaster that fails to your argument as well.
Asmon keeps bringing up nostalgia factor because he just doesnt want to be wrong
If you go and play OSRS properly there's literally nothing Nostalgic about it, it's so fucking different but in a good way. They improved off of a perfect foundation. Greatest MMO ever made hands down it aint even close.
Even early game is not as bad as it used to be , you can get a pretty decent account just questing now days , even with little cash you can get base 40s and start stuff . I literally got base 65s in a week or so
@@Dead1yProductions yep, but its not like in a theme park mmo kind of way where they try to get you out of the early game ASAP, theres just stuff that you can do that actually feel meaningful but still streamline the process a little bit, its really really well done imo.
"literally nothing Nostalgic", really nothing at all? Not the visuals, or the music, or the quests? Everything about it is nostalgic for me. There's plenty of new things, but the core of the game is the same as it was in 2007.
@@romofin Literally never think about the days I played it as a kid, there's just too much new for me to be psyched about Lumbridge innit
Its wild that Asmon can think his argument holds literally any ground at all, especially with his "test" at the end.
The test isnt "If this unrelated copycat game does poorly, its proof that OSRS isnt held up by nostalgia".
The test is "If a new player, with no ability to have nostalgia, can get invested into OSRS, then its growing because its a good game", which is very obviously what is happening.
Asmon's definition of Nostalgia very clearly boils down to "If its old, its nostalgia", even after reading the literal definition on screen where its not that.
OSRS didn't start because of Nostalgia, it started because the mainline game went to shit. It didn't stay because of nostalgia, because nostalgia is not a perpetual feeling. You play 007 Goldeneye once every few years because of Nostalgia, and you dont make it your main game because it sucks.
i started around mobile's release, around the time when tob was the new raid/in the login screen. there's something very appealing about questing and the f2p skilling. but there's also a rhythm game a thousand hours later (less hours now with perilous moons and toa).
j1mmy said, nostalgia is keeping players away from the game. and asmon says nostalgia is keeping them in... but the graphs side with j1mmy...lmfao
Difference between nostalgia and the old game just being better.
Nostalgia is not what keeps people playing RuneScape and it is frustrating to see how stubborn Asmon is in his conviction that it is.
Yeah, if the game never got updates it wouldn’t have the player base it has. People stay for the content, not because nostalgia
It got me back in the door in 2017, but nostalgia has nothing to do with why I'm still playing it 6+ hours a day lmao
Nostalgia is why it exists, it's quality and enjoyment is why it survives/thrives
Once Asmon makes a statement he will never back down from it lol
He has arguments, and I don't see any counter.
You can deny reality as much as you want, though.
Asmon trying to make a comparison between brighter shores and OSRS is absolutely ridiculous. Two completely different games, brighter shores may have the same/similar aesthetics but i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot serrated pole, and i've been playing OSRS since I was a child.
nostalgia players left 6 months after it released. its just a good game
As someone who LOVES osrs and predominantly makes videos for the “newer” generation of gamers, i can confidently say theres no way runescape would be popular today without its history/nostalgia.
While its clear the osrs dev team crushed it, the basic formula for og MMOs just does not resonate with the majority of kids growing up today. Its far too slow and confusing - and like it or not this audience is the driver for games to get massive.
On top of that, even “older gamers” are much more conservative with game choices. They have full time jobs and families, they aren’t going to be grinding a new game’s lvl 3 goblins without the reassurance of knowing that they will be rewarded with some kind of emotion or fun experience (e.g. nostalgia or previous knowledge that the game was fun). Older people’s time just tends to be more valuable.
I think though its important to note that a game can still be really good and not be as popular as minecraft or fortnite. Not every game needs to appeal to masses and have 500k concurrent players. Typically for a game to get to that stage it does lose a lot of personality in order to appeal to a wider audience. Pretty much was the downfall of runescape originally when EOC came out.
Sorry for essay comment but it was a fun af discussion video from jimmy, loved thinking about it ❤😊
16:44 Asmon straight up counters his own point here; He's basically saying "There have been lots of games that use nostalgia that have flopped because they're bad, and OldSchool RuneScape does well because of nostalgia obviously."
He also says if Brighter Shores flops that means OSRS would have flopped had it been released today. Which makes no sense, because if you look at the amount of WoW clones that have flopped (significantly more then runescape) surely you couldn't make the same direct comparison with WoW. Is it so hard for him to believe it's just a very good game, and graphics don't need to play a significant role in people's decision to play it?
They were NEW games trying to capitalize on Nostalgia of other older games though, not old games mining the nostalgia they have built up. That's a very VERY different thing.
@@Ralathar44 Well that's where you're wrong, because there have been WoW clones popping up from the very start of WoW.
@@P4PKing Those were by definition not capitalizing on Nostalgia. You didn't think that one through eh? I'm talking about stuff like WildStar. Not WOW Clones. Stuff who's marketing was about returning to old school MMO values.
@@P4PKing That's because in that time period it was games trying to copy WoW's success strictly from its systems and gameplay, not nostalgia. You'll see this even in advertising when MMOs claim to be "old school" or "going back to the roots of MMORPGs". The reason for the older games inception is completely different than ones produced in more recent years, and the fact that you can't immediately identify that nuance shows that you're either being disingenous or shouldn't be inserting yourself in conversations that you don't have the capacity to understand.
I am the only one in our ironmen group who has played osrs back in 2007. All the other guys in my group are pumping crazy hours into this game. Nostalgia is not a factor, it’s just a amazing game.
So whats up with the argument ”if it would release today, no one would play it”? literally most of the player base never played it back in the days.
@@persevasara I think Asmon thinks the bad graphic is what would prevented OSRS from being popular but he is forgetting that some of the most popular games are Minecraft and Roblox which has bad graphic.
@@LetsWatchMeGoMoo Asmon himself even plays games like Vampire Survivors, Halls of Torment, etc... I don't understand the whole bad graphics talk when he plays games with worse graphics than OSRS.
It's weird cuz asmon can overlook wow looking like crap for years. Doesn't hold up to his own standards
@persevasara because new players flock to popular games. Runescape is popular because ot nostalgia. If it never had nostalgia, no one would talk about it and no new players would bother trying it
My dude, I hear you, but the combat in OSRS is NOT simple or reductionist. It's extremely complex, from prayer swaps and flicks, to equipment flicks. You have bosses where you have to change protection prayers every few attacks, but also have to swap your attack style every few attacks, while the ground is moving and damaging you if you position incorrectly. Meanwhile, tornados are chasing you down, limiting where you can go and keeping you moving. Also can't get to close to the boss or else it will stomp you. All that while having to eat food and prayer potions. This is not easy, it's goddamn interesting.
Asmon doesnt know that Blizzard only made Classic wow in response to the success of OSRS.....
Nostalgia is what gets me into older games, it being a good game is what keeps me playing
Asmon's point: Nostalgia is what gets me into older games
J1mmy's point: it being a good game is what keeps me playing
If I used to eat the most delicious pizza ever, but I moved, is wanting that best pizza ever nostalgia? Or does nostalgia imply that the object is bad?
If they replaced all the warriors attacks in wow with throwing knives and thats the new warrior, would wanting the old warrior back be nostalgia or would it be wanting your non fucked up actually functional warrior back?
Calling a fondness for the old game "nostalgia" would be like updating tetris to have physics so the blocks bounce around and when you complain the devs say you're just feeling nostalgia for the old version. It's a good game that was made worse, and when the devs went back to osrs and kept updating it without the shit that made it bad, it stayed a game people want to play.
I'd also like to see if his claim that the community is all old players is true, one of OSRS strengths is that it can be played on a phone or tablet while other mmo's can't. Only Jagex would know the demographics though.
Just because you have nostalgia for a thing. Doesn’t mean that thing wasn’t actually better.
Also, the Brighter Shores argument is complete dogshit and you need to drop it asap. It’s not a sequel, it’s not related at all. It’s one developers passion project, this is an absolutely insane comparison.
Pax Dei seems more like a modern OSRS game to me than Brighter shores does.
Brighter shores seems like an Idle mobile game with korean-MMO autopathing inspired automation
@@justinstratton2482 pax dei? ''the peace under DEI''?
Plus if you were going to compare BS to RS, you have to compare it to RS3 not OSRS. He does need to drop that comparison
@@justinstratton2482 Pax Dei has literally nothing to do with OSRS. PD is a long term crafting simulator. You would need to be a complete moron to assume the two are similar. In what way is Pax Dei like OSRS?
@@theremix54 Both OSRS and Pax Dei are slow paced games with interwoven skill/profession trees that feature open worlds that don't give you a concrete direction at the start.
Asmongold reacted to a Pax Dei video by ForceGaming where Force said Pax Dei suffered because if you were training Cooking, and you outpaced someone else in your group you wouldn't be able to make the higher level cooking items because ranges to cook higher level food required different skills to cook it.
It's not 1:1, but if you play an Ironman or go back in time access to resources to cook the higher level food doesn't exist immediately.
The endgames of the games are not the same, the controls of the games are not the same, the creators of the games are not the same.
But if you modded Geilinor into Pax Dei I'd sure as hell play it before Melvor Idle or Brighter Shores.
its funny how he keeps saying that because the game has oldschool in the name it has to be nostalgia the reason behind it being sucessful, even though J1mmy showed that pure nostalgia was killing the game in the begining because of no updates. Nostalgia just brings people in at the begining, the game is growing because new people are getting into the game now because of the changes, comunity, etc.
Its so dumb that he contradicts what J1mmy says, based on 0 knowledge of the game, the visuals and a couple of minutes in lumbridge lol
Why would there be so many new players if they were only playing for nostalgia? They wouldn't like the game when they tried it if nostalgia was the only draw.
Asmon gets shooting himself in the foot, whole point of the video was nostalgia doesn't matter anymore
Asmon: oh nostalgia is what keeps it going
Asmongold was definitely grasping at straws early on or he didn't understand J1mmys point. The players didn't want osrs for the fleeting feeling of nostalgia. They wanted it because things like EoC ruined combat. Imagine if one day world of warcraft was like fuck it no more abilities just auto attacks. Players would be outraged right? Same thing in reverse on runescape. Also runescape 3 has done things that lead to the trivialization of End Game content, Things like adding summoning. You can literally see it in the graph J1mmy shows. "No updates" player base drops 80%. "New updates" player base grows. Players didnt want nostalgia they wanted Runescape. And not Runescape 3.
There are two things I seem to always disagree with Asmon on:
- His vitriolic hatred for anything religious.
- His weird inability to acknowledge OSRS in any meaningful way, no matter how many times the topic is brought up.
We did not want nostalgia, we wanted a rollback. When OSRS released in 2013 there had not even been enough time to develop any substantial nostalgia. It is certainly not what keeps me logging in every day for the last 11 years.
Imagine Blizzard forcibly changed all combat in world of warcraft into turn based combat. Jagex did a similar shift in how combat worked in Runescape, that was the main driving factor behind why people wanted OSRS.
It’s was a lot more than that
All of this boils down to people being too incompetent to verbally express their feelings. If only there was a word for "Old thing that was super popular back in the day that older people feel fondly for and that new people want to jump into so that they can understand what all these old people are talking about".
You cant have nostalgia for yesterday. This shit happend overnight. As soon as EOC released we wanted "old school" back.. no nostalgia involved, they just fucked our game...