Zwift 20 min FTP Test | How close is it to a Zwift Ramp Test
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Lets just say this is the one people have been waiting for. Which is comparing a Zwift 20 min FTP test to a Zwift Ramp test. The results might surprise you.
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00:00 Intro
01:36 FTP Test
12:03 Finish
12:58 Review - Sport
Nice attempt 👍👏. If you have significantly higher FTP from ramp compare to 20 minute with protocol, that's mean you are anaerobic dominant. Maybe you come from strength training background and you have pretty good pure muscular strength, but aerobic system still have not caught up yet and still have a lot of potential for gain. Keep up great work!
The color of yellow and green even blue is not what I wanna see in 20 min FTP test. I would aim for yellow and orange all the way for 20 minutes.
ADZ avg watts sound pretty good to set your FTP value. Zwift zFTP likely to underestimate ability, if rider never really do full gas 20 minutes ride...
If you can't find the right gear while in workout mode you can adjust the trainer resistance with + and - keys (pc), this won't change the watts you're producing just your cadence (when not in erg mode).
The 20min test is done over your FTP so ppl usually use cadence higher than while riding at threshold. Just use a cadence that you can produce most power with don't overthink it.
Good effort.
joined Zwift last week - did this test last night. Boy what a killer - having only been riding about a year at 53 years old I got 179. Lots to improve on. Zwift predicted 188 so wasn't far off
Interesting stuff. I haven't done a ramp test for a while, but feel like the 20 minute test is the purest number. There is the option of doing two 8 minute efforts with 10 minutes recovery. You will have a higher number and have to multiply by 0.9 to get your ftp. One day, I'll try all three (not at the same time!) and see how the numbers compare.
At the end of the day. It's a number we use as a measure for improvement. I use the ramp test for baseline and beginning the season or, as a benchmark before starting a program. Depending on where my fitness is I may take several ramp tests week by week to fine tune my training zones. I use the FTP test as a measure of my performance at the end of a block and before moving into the outdoor season. My 20 minute FTP reflects my actual FTP when it comes to metrics indoor (for racing or measuring fitness improvements). This leads to a very strong, and accurate outdoor season for me. Just remember, it's your number to improve on. Good luck.
One flaw I see with the estimated FTP is that it uses rolling data and best efforts over the past several weeks. If you've been doing loads of Z2 base building miles and don't have any full gas efforts for a couple of months, it will skew low. At some point, though, I just get tired of looking at it and see how far under an hour I can go up the Alpe.
the 5' z5 before the 20' is mostly to remove the anaerobic impact on the "real 20' test".
along with the purpose of this you should not stand up doing the test as it usually engages anaerobic efforts. although, on the other hand you could argue that being able to stand up would be more realistic since you most likely would stand up from time to time doing for example a 60' climb
It definitely served that purpose. Legs were hurting going into the 20 mins. Found that i had to rely on cadence a little more than i would have liked
That Cinelli is fire my friend.. love your channel too 🤘🏽 Ride On
My favourite comment from 2023- cheers man
@@thewattlife and yours just might be my favourite channel of 2023.. the depth of analysis in your own development is unlike the others and benefits keen Zwifters definitely. Thanks
Trainer Road has started to use a dynamic AI FTP. It is based on 10 training sessions as a minimum. So you do not have to do actual FTP tests anymore. The AI estimation comes pretty darn close to a real 20 min test. As your FTP evolves, the AI will change the numbers.
Do u recommend traineroad ? Can u use it outside?
yes and yes@@youssefaitmenna5003
Handy to know- ive never used Trainer Road but i have friends who recommend it
Your FTP is in the settings somewhere. You can manually change it and it applies to every workout (incl. FTP Tests) you do or it will change when Zwift detects a higher FTP during a race or group ride. So whatever that FTP is, determined your power zones for the 20-min FTP test workout. If you set your FTP at 308, then 340 is your lower Vo2 zone, I believe
Ever since they swapped all the rings around in the training panel I’ve lost my bearings a little bit. Eventually found it though and reset my FTP manually (to 305) which is only really relevant to workouts and power zones.
I feel like the 20 minute test - and you alluded to it, is more Zwift racing specific. I feel like this one would be a more accurate barometer to evaluate which Cat you would be in, than a Ramp test would. I have found my Ramp tests personally to come out about my 10-12 min max depending on the day, for reference.
Yeah i managed to hold my ramp test result (310 watts) for 16:45 minutes but that was when i was fresh and warmed up. Im much more likely to be able to hold my 20 min test result for closer to 60 mins
I did a recent ramp test which came out to 319W. It would probably be nice to to a 20 min 335W test to prove if that might be accurate. I shouldn’t have a very high anerobic threshold as I have never really trained this way. Most of my outdoor rides are pretty hard aerobically but rarely anaerobic. Therefore I hope my ftp result is quite similar to my ramp test…
That is interesting, seems to be very individual depending on riders, for me the ramp test is almost identical to my 20min FTP test (355) and my estimated FTP (351( and my ramp test result 353 Watts.
I believe you have a whole world of experience that I might be lacking, which I think plays a part in being able to manage these types of efforts. Especially when it comes to a 20 min controlled effort, I felt like I was lacking the endurance. Those are numbers that I’m dreaming off and I think with more experience and quite simply more time the ability to produce/hold wattage will develop.
Interesting to see that yours are so similar
Every system is aligned. For me as a weightlifter I prefer the ramp test. It’s easier and I get higher numbers 😂 I think I have to do the 20 minutes test too. But the numbers won’t be the same
Did this test earlier today and it used ERG for everything bar the 20 mins section... Wattbike Atom. I'd adjusted the bike's virtual gearing this time and was able to push much harder. Last time the gear options were a touch too easy or way too hard.
Yeah I think I could have used erg for the warm up, but for some reason I must have turned it off. Not too mad about it though as it was a little more comfortable in the build up to the test.
I HATED the 20 mins and def wasn’t quite happy with the gearing
I'm usually a runner and this kind of session is definitely type 2 fun - good when it's done!
I did mine on wattbike atom last week too. Gears were bit weird sometimes. How did you adjust?
Originally the ramp test multiplier was between 0,77 and 0,73 to accommodate what type of rider you are such as more aerobic or anaerobic. At certain point it was simplified.
Great to know- so if I was more anaerobic I would x0.77?
@@thewattlife anaerobic rides have an advantage during the ramp test so they should multiply the result with 0,73 and aerobic guys with 0,77
I'm an anaerobic dominant athlete. The proper 20-min FTP test is supposed to have an all-out 5 min effort, then 5 mins rest, then the 20 min effort. The last time I did this test, my 5-min effort was a bit over 130% of my FTP.
There's a problem with the FTP tests in Zwift. The one you did seems to have given you 5 mins at 120-ish% FTP, then a 10 min rest. The 5-min effort may be too low for some, or too high for some. The 10-min rest is too long, and you'll have recovered some anaerobic power by then. As such, the 20 min test might overestimate FTP for some people - I have suffered this in the past, as I did the test, and then I couldn't even hold sweet spot.
I'm looking at the FTP test folder, and there seem to be several versions of the 20 min test. If you look at FTP test (shorter), it looks like warm up, then 3 mins @110%, then 2 mins @125%, then 5 mins rest, then the 20 min test. You could do this test, turn erg off, and just go all out during the 3 min and 2 min blocks. I have to admit, this test felt awful to do, but you have to do it. The other option is that you could keep doing the ramp test, but use a lower multiplier. The ramp test takes your maximum power (max for a full minute, plus it pro-rates power for an incomplete ramp), then multiplies by 0.75. I believe that my multiplier is more like 0.7. With some experience, you could figure out if there's a better multiplier for you.
Nice work and I used to do this test beg and end of indoor season
I guess this will have to do for my beginning of Zwift season test and ill do another 20 min test in the Spring
@@thewattlife whatever up to you. I used to do sufferfest rubber glove back in the day
Is that a certain type of test?
This is great in all, but Im seeing chalk on that beastmaker slopper and I wanna know how long you can hold that.
ha- i legit had to quit climbing because it was making me bigger and wasnt helping with my running and cycling! But at one time or another... i wasnt crap at it!
I tend to feel like a world beater for the first 10 minutes then minutes 10-15 are brutal and I have to convince myself not to quit. once I get inside 5 minutes I can generally survive. you should empty the tank in the last minute but if you did the test right you won't be able to actually "sprint"
The 20 minute test really benefits people who are really dialled in with how certain efforts should feel. I think that you need to know where your strengths lie and what sort of rider you are and pick a test that you feel most accurately represents your FTP and fitness. FTP is (was) a high end TT specific method of seeing where pros were/ are with fitness. 20 minute FTP tests are mentally and technically very involved. If you’re a TT’r then I think 20 minute tests are spot on but actually it’s just not a good method of assessing recreational cyclists fitness. I’d suggest a Kolie Moore style test with consistent effort and ramp at end.
Yeah i think i struggled with the technical side of how to ride this. Especially when i was on my own and not chasing a group or trying to hold on. Ill have a look at kolie Moore test and see if i can get one recorded.
Should have put itin erg mode so trainer set resistance n you dont have to mess with gears
Yeah i think that would make the warm up and the anaerobic 5 mis easier to ride. But for the 20 min test you have to ride it in free ride- there is no erg mode available
Reacted on another video before seeing this about the 20 min test vs ramptest. If you want the most accurate ftp, you beter do the 20 min test. Ok, it's harder, but that's why it is so accurate in order to find your threshold. Ramp test is just good to compare with eachother 🙂 Adz and 20 min during a race are pretty accurate aswell. Just ditch the ramptest 😂 And reason you didn't score well on this test could be a bad day or just not used to a 20 min test (how to pace etc..). I have a friend who's bad in every ftp test so he uses his max 20 min wattages from races.
I base a lot off my race watt/kg as most races are 25-35 mins long. I think my latest Zwift estimate FTP was from my ride up Alpe du Zwift.
I’m terrible at pacing a 20 min test
20 minute tests are grueling. Thats why i love them
I can confirm- I HATED IT
@@thewattlifewill be doing one today so we'll see how I feel after that lol. Ramp has be down as 275w (4.6wkg) while intervals ICU has be down at 269w
How did it go?
What was your time up the alp holding 285w mate?
52:25. Was actually meant to be a big ring session up the Alp but i got carried away after the first few bends and felt quite good
Thanks for the reply. And what a mint time. I’ve been following your page as id say we’re around the same level so the stuff you’re figuring out is helping me too 👍
I started cycling end of April though, only on Zwift n not on a road bike. Since then though my FTP at that time is currently my Z2 now. It’s a great feeling seeing the hard work pay off. I did my 2nd trip up the alp a few week ago n that pushed me to that 4wkg marker you’ve mentioned.
Cheers for the videos
Solid work- what was your time up the Alp? Im thinking i need to give it a proper smash and try and go under 50 mins
It was 47.20 mate, I shaved 21mins off my first attempt back in June.
I was on a group ride for the PB on the 4 horsemen route and when we got to the alp we was sticking to around 4.1wkg but if I’m being honest I felt really comfortable. It was only towards the end I asked if I can kick on and they said go for it. You don’t wanna be that guy to just leave the group when you’re in it together so I’m glad they said go for it. When I do it again I’m thinking 45min is doable, maybe even quicker but we’ll see 😎
Funny though, I’ve only rode it twice and both times I’ve got given the gloves on the spinning wheel - ill with it 😂
The group ride was called WeduSufferSunday on the CatB group. It was at 2pm (on a Sunday haha). Defo recommend
Mashallah quanto sei bello..
Just goes to show how inaccurate the ramp tests are! It’s all well and fine using the same protocol to test each time and compare results to measure progression, but when your zones are being set based on an artificially high FTP it can mess up your whole training.
I agree- theres been a lot of times ive had to dial down a workout and when i enter a workout on ERG mode i always set my FTP below my FTP Ramp test result
I think if you can establish a consistent relationship between your ramp test score and your realistic FTP e.g 10% too high then you can use the ramp test as low fatigue way of testing regularly without disrupting your training 🙂
@@thewattlifethis seems like a really good indicator that you, personally, should NOT be using ramp tests to set your Zwift FTP. You're talking about a difference of ~40w between tests, which is an indication that something is wrong. As already pointed out, you should not be drawing conclusions from a FTP20 test done only a couple days after a race effort. You weren't in a recovered state for the test in this video. An FTP test at the end of a recovery week is going to be a much better indicator, and I bet you would see a result that's closer to your 280-290 efforts you mentioned.
I agree with you, I didn't quite expect the difference to be quite so large between the two tests. Half of me thought about giving up on the test in theist 5 mins and then I thought about not sharing it but its a hard darn test (that ive never done before) so I thought, what the hell, might as well share it.
I think id really have to be fresh for an FTP 20 min test but a ramp test I think you can do without having to really worry about too much recovery. @MrKipperfish @@MrKipperfish
You should try a test outside.
I will give this a go in Spring and compare the two- I’m only just building up a new bike with my first power meter on
@@thewattlife To do 20 min ftp inside is so mentally taxing. I also notice that even with two fans I tend to have difficulties with heat.
My anecdotal input: FTP Ramp vs 20min test came out at 317 vs 316W (3,55w/kg). Background, 49yrs old, was obese & discarded 40kg of fat / gained 10kg of lean mass and have 2yrs of active riding indoor/outdoor under my belt. While I do chase the same, elusive 4W/kg "goal" myself, I am more focused on critical power (CP) on certain time intervals in order to touch on all of my power zones in my training. The idea is "broader base lift the whole ship" and eventually I might hit 4w/kg. If that happens in 2024 would be perfect as it coincide with me turning 50 :D
Thats an amazing story- i agree if you can focus on improving all around efforts then eventually you'll get to the greater goal of 4 w/kg.
4 w/kg at 50 is a great goal
Let me get this clear, you do a race on Monday, in which you did 291W for 20 mins, then less than 2 days later you think an FTP test would be accurate? Content over training. smh
This was my first ever attempt at a 20 min FTP test, i didnt quite expect it to be so brutal. Complete rest day the day before and if you look at my training load from the last week, the only thing ive done is a recovery 5km run and then the race monday evening. I thought i was giving myself half a chance...
@@thewattlifetwo days feels to me like enough recoup time on a 20 min all out tbh😊