Is This Bizarre Crash Proof of Motor-doping? Tour of Denmark 2021
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- The bizarre crash in the Tour of Denmark could potentially be showcasing the problem that has been eluded to by anonymous sources in the peloton or can it just be explained by a simple physics lesson?
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How about not calling it doping and instead calling it cheating
yeah it's pretty clear: riding a motorbike in a pushbike race.
@@nonfictionone Lol yeah, just call it a motorbike, it's litetally a motorbike.
50,000 inspections. Zero positives. Only .positive , ever, was with infrared in a u-23 race...... They all use motors. Probably every big rider, in every race. There are even obvious "burn outs" where a rider doesn't pedal, but the rear tire throws up dirt......but no prosecution for it? If one world tour rider goes down for this, he squeals, and it becomes obvious the whole thing is staged ....identically to nascar and formula one. It's a literal circus on wheels. It has little to do with merit. As long as you climb to the top 100 euro riders and satisfy a market demographic, they will choose some races for you to win. Just like nfl. Every game is scripted and modified based on vegas betting odds, and finding a captivating story. Most of the revenue that comes in is from betting. I don't even believe pharma doping works, but it's just a part of the culture, and pharma sponsors riders....... - but electric motors do make you faster. And the motors are used everywhere. A wireless activated hub motor would only require a button under the bar tape.....and a wheel swap.......and give say, fifty watts for twenty minutes. More than enough to decide a split in a race.
Yes the ‘motordoping’ is safk.
I think this topic is completely stupid and irrelevant and to bring LA into it is such a baseless conspiracy I cant even begin to understand what kind of Big Foot chasing simpleton goes in for this senseless drivel
It’s pretty obvious when these teams are switching bikes half a dozen times for one stage
Yeh the huge wind driving across the road, it’s nearly flattening those crops.
A wind which would drag the bike like that would have to have 100km/h.
Haven't seen the race, but if I see the shape of the peloton it seems to me the wind came from the other direction...
If you look at the peloton you can see by the way they are riding that the wind is not coming from that side.
I hate when the wind picks up my bike and it flies away
@@ShadowWizard123 hahaha yeah me too.
no need for debate, race officials only have to pickup the bike, remove its components and see if there is moto inside the frame .. controversy solved
These are the same race officials who cracked down on all the dopers. They have zero interest in finding or revealing the cheating in today's peloton.
no pro cyclist is going to let sone UCI hack touch their bike let alone take it apart!! thats why they use the sensors but they only do random checks so its not looked for enough!!
@@kenkaniff8428 of course not before a race or a crash .. but the uci could surely provide such rule only in the event of a crash, in the same way that they provided such innocuous rules against aerotuck positions, wearing of high socks and throwing of empty bidons .. lol !!
@@attybong good luck having ANY pro rider letting a UCI hack take apart their bike!!! even AFTER a stage with a crash. thats just too much to ask of the peloton in my opinion. pro riiders aren't letting these UCI hacks even TOUCH their $17,000 machine!
@@kenkaniff8428 do you know what you are saying? removing components from the bike does not ruin the bike, in the same way that you do not destroy a bike by removing its head set, bottom bracket or group set for purposes of degreasing, re-lubing and maintenance .. they did that to contador's bike after one stage at the giro .. uci pulled his bike's bottom bracket out only to find nothing ..
Reminds me of when Ryder when down at the giro. My wheels are light and have ceramic bearings and when I've gone down my rear wheel has never careened my bike across the road even remotely like that.
Why are bikes used not inspected before and after each Stage or Race???
I agree! It should be simple to inspect all bikes of the top 10 finishers of every stages plus all bikes replaced during the race. Not complicated, easy to execute, so why isn’t it happening ?
I 💯 per believe lance used motors during his TDF victories. Go back and look at all the old footage of his time trial victories. He always reaches back to pinch the top of the pad in his shorts with his left hand. Even the late Paul Sherwen made a comment about it during the beginning of lances 2005 prologue ride. He referenced to "lances strange nervous habit of always reaching back to grab his shorts". Look it up. I believe the remote was hidden in the pad if his shorts.
Look it up and holy cow, that is strange!
Lugged steel frames can be glued together with resin, and sealed lead acid batteries can be installed during manufacturing. Dremel made a commercial electric eraser in 1932. That configuration would fit in a rear hub or bottom bracket. I think motor doping is a hundred years old.
Wasn’t he always grabbing under his seat?
Or he just didn’t like his shorts riding up in his crack. I could easily see those tight skinsuits doing that and there be a need to adjust it. 🤷🏻♀️
Do you think Lance was the only one doping & using motors? Or, were the other big-$ team’s GC-men doing the same? Lance certainly cheated; but, only a sucker wouldn’t when all the Dutch, French & Italien teams were doping heavy before Lance even came over. It was cheat or go home to America & find a real job. Lance was just the best cheater in an era when all the contenders were doing the same…imho.
Ive seen this happen when the all the doping craze was still going really strong some years ago. I was in the front of the pack in a local race and then a crash happened, turns out one of the bikes went from one side of the road to the other almost like someone was still pedalling on it, I didnt see it but the race was immediatly stoped because the back of the group that saw that immediatly started complaining and we had already gone through some climbs so we were about 25 on that pack and the testosterone was all over the air. The organizers took that bike with them and the dude couldnt even continue because he got seriously injured so everything good and a cheater got justice right? Wrong, that bycicle wasnt modified, and that magic act actually happened.
thank you for sharing this
Thanks for the anecdote about your personal experience of this phenomena.
I think it's just the tire making contact with the road a bit, and if it's still spinning at full speed it's enough to fling the lightweight bikes around a bit.
@@GeoStrebermy thoughts too.
Thank you for sharing this story
It seems it would be trivial to try and reproduce. Spin a rear wheel up to 50kph and lay it down like that. Anyway, visions of Ryder Hesjedal for sure.
The problem is that it's not only about the wheel... Moment of inertia (mass x velocity = constant) and conservation of energy (Kinetic energy + Potential energy = constant) are most important and so is the wind which you sadly can't measure anymore. The friction between the tire and the asphalt is maybe the only thing you can measure but still that is different with other conditions. So to be honest I am pretty sure that you can't really do anything to test if it's true. The only thing that can check for sure if there was a motor inside the bike was the UCI at that moment.
Did the wheel continue to spinn for several minutes after the crash due to the motor being left on?
Turns out there was a hamster in there.
What i want to know is - do the spinning wheels, which are what appears to be propelling the bike across the road, have enough mass to give that kind of flywheel effect? Wheel are quite light. Wouldn't they quickly lose energy pushing the bike across the road?
i have been in a fair share of bike crashes when i raced. my answer is NO way. the wheels just stop spinning quickly. never seen anything like this, but maybe there was something on the road to redirect the energy sideways instead of forward. super unusual, so of course it is natural to wonder.
@@secretagent86 60 km per hour is pretty fast with a lot of kinetic energy
@@epincion the kinetic energy and inertia would send the bike forward no way has a free spinning wheel got the energy to drive the bike side ways with that much force plus the force required to overcome the initial inertia, cyclings a joke full of cheats
@@secretagent86 i agree with you 100%
@@Andre-kc9di you are spot on with that point you made. it looks suspect as hell to me!!
The UCI should demand protour bikes be build with a small hole in the tube so inspectors can easily insert camera to ensure nothing is there. No need to rely on expensive sensing equipment
Just take the saddle off
FLIR cameras can easily detect motor doping with its heat signature as shown in the video. There are lightweight handheld versions where a UCI Commissaire can be equipped to detect motor doping during a race.
@@iMadrid11 I think that only works if the motor is engaged at that moment (or shortly after). The rider can flip the motor on and off so it’s not 100% effective.
@@Sampsonoff You only need to focus FLIR scanning on the climbing sections to detect motor doping. There's hardly any advantage to made using a motor on flat sections.
Motor could be hidden in pretty much any tube. And you could also have magnetic wheels aswell
It's my understanding that when it rains during the stage of a race, that bike is stripped to the frame and everything cleaned and reoiled. Why cant the bikes be inspected then?
I crashed in that exact same way as the poor guy on the right. This time it was a big strong 80kg guy trying to dive for the grass verge after a few guys right in front of him went down. His bike skated right the way over the other side of the wet road on its side where I went to miss the crash. 99/100 I would have missed his bike by 5m's. Honestly I've never seen a bike do that ever before. Was absolutely unbelievable! I was in hospital for 5days and out from cycling for 5months with many broken bones.
Right, that's what can cause a very light bike to careen sideways into and across the road -- the rider pushing off to dive away from the road. No indication of a motor. If I pushed off the rider to my right (I wouldn't) and he didn't resist I could make his 150 pound body move a few feet into the road, so obviously I could make my 12 pound bike fly across the road.
Not motordoping, the simulation glitched.
😂😂😂😂
Wind is coming from the right - obviously by the peloton formation. So we can rule out that theory.
Plus corn doesn't seem to be swaying.
@@JoeStranzl thats what i was just going to say also. wind doesn't seem to be the issue here at all.
If the wind was strong enough to blow a bicycle across the road, then surely the event would have been cancelled/postponed due to safety concerns.
@@DolleHengst Exactly.
Judging by the way that the bike is moving, it appears to be either dragged around by the front wheel or spinning around the rear wheel. The first case seems unlikely to be caused by a motor since the wheel is actually going backwards. The second version also seems quite unlikely since a bike lying on its side hardly puts any pressure on the rear tyre. Also the cranks don't appear to be spinning as the bike is moving as far as I can tell from this footage.
The most likely reason for me seems that the front wheel in its upright position does catch the wind in an unfortunate matter.
Either way, the UCI should take the bike apart, if only to relieve fans from doubt.
Wind lol.
@@justbreakingballs Idk footage seems too crappy to say there isn't any and the way the riders in that small group are arranged with no one on the far left suggests there might be a left to right crosswind, so it doesn't seem too unlikely to me.
Also cornfields don't really react too much to wind.
@@lukaserlt5824 yeh I used to hate it as a kid when you would put your bike down for just a second and you turned round and it had blown away. I never learnt. I’ve got some magic beans for sale if you are interested. Corn field don’t react to wind lol, well ok but neither do bikes.
@@justbreakingballs I mean you could just answer like a normal person and simply say you disagree and add why. If you thinkk it's not enough wind to move a bike, that's totally fine by me. My main point is just that the bike is moving in a really weird way for it to be caused by a motor. Also I did not say corn fields don't react at all, just less than many other field crops.
@@lukaserlt5824 I’m sorry Lukas, my answering is born out of my disbelief of people mentioning wind blowing the bike. I’m not saying it had a motor, I’m saying wind wasn’t blowing that bike around and not trying to be nasty but don’t say that corn fields don’t react to wind as a possible factor in wind blowing that bike and expect me to take you serious. You should be working for Lance Armstrong PR department.
Were they racing with David Copperfield? Houdini? Thats a whole magic trick. 😂
that should be "alluded to" in your description.
Two points here.
1 - whilst the bike appears to move perpendicular across the road, the bike is actually crossing the road diagonally towards the direction it had been headed in, but the motocam and other cyclists moving forward make it appear like it turned at a right angle.
2 - the front wheel is stood up with full contact on the ground, which could strongly influence the direction the bike travels.
I dont think the front wheel is in contact with the ground.
My therory is the angular momentum of the spinning front wheel is moving the bike via the right hand rule, putting force thru the axel length, perpendicular to the fork.
I would have thought any stored energy in the bike would have driven it in its original direction of travel not at 90 degrees?
Rotational energy
I would have thought you're not a moron but we've now both been proven wrong.
Look at the corn. It’s not windy enough to move a bike. Plus they’d be echeloned out the other way.
I don’t get it. Why would you need fancy equipment to find the motors. Simply weighing the bikes and just inspecting them before the race would make it pretty obvious that there was a motor in the bike. I really doubt there is a problem anyway
There was no way the wind would blow the bike like that. Notice other riders didn't have any issue with the wind. It's was obvious a motor inside the bike.
Why didn't you mention the name of the team the "motor doping" bike came from in the Tour of Denmark crash?
IT was a lower tier team, cant remember the name, but the rider crashing into the bike was Martin Toft Madsen, a danish TT specialist.
after the 2nd rider high sided, the 1st bike bounced low a couple times then bounced high and nearly stood itself up. 100% motor in it
It is pretty easy to devise an experiment with a large fan to see how much force is required to move a bicycle like that. I think the other riders would be blown off their bikes long before that as they have the much larger cross section. Also, normal bicycles do not store large amounts of energy in the drivetrain.
I fell off my bike once and the bike did the same thing. It turned out I had a motor in my bike. The local race organizers gave me a nice punishment. I had to ride naked next year. But I still won! Everyone was pissed.
I guess I don't understand at this point how this could be a controversy as race organizers should have been all over that rider inspecting the bike the moment other riders reported to their teams that something "weird" happened. I mean it can't be that hard to detect a battery and motor in a bike. Is it really that hard to detect?
Yes it can be
seems to me like if they looked they would of found it. so either they didn't look or they found nothing when they did
I’m sure you’re right, but wonder which it was. I mean a video like this goes public, and it questions the integrity of the race. Wouldn’t the race organizers want to say what they did to restore trust?
Yes the UCI Commissaire can immediately scrutineer a suspected bike after a race like they do in motorsports racing. In F1 racing the cars are immediately inspected by scrutineers to detect if there was any illegal modification made.
I remember at my local stock car racing circuit events there are creative ways to cheat the rules. Like the air intake tube size where the engine sucks in air is limited by regulations. A race team was caught by scrutineers using an illegal metal tube material that expands by a few millimeters due to high heat which gives them a slight marginal advantage in performance. But when the air intake tube limiter cools down to a cooler temperature, the size would shrink down in size to pass regulations.
@@thecellulontriptometer4166 yes, I agree. I haven't seen any kind of statement though. Have you?
May the force be with you
All race bikes need to be constructed of clear polymers, it's the only way to achieve transparency in the sport. I'll just see myself out now.
Should be easy to detect by putting the bike on a scale, and maybe the use of a magnet
Who was the rider?
Brah, ever hear of a tire rolling @ 60kph
God !
I wish people would listen in science classes.
How about motor spring drive does not use motor cause it will be obvious needs battery but spring driven. Like those small toy cars which you back then it goes far. That could be it.
We must make rules against the wind helping riders or atleast make the wind help every ryder at the same time. Cancelara took all the wind back in 2010 so nothing was left for Boonen.
I fell off my bike a few years ago at about 25kph - pretty modest speed. The bike ended up about 10 meters from me. I see nothing odd here at all.
I believe that because it had one tyre in full contact and grip with the road it show that some dragging must have occured. I haven't seen crashes that have looked like this, only Hesjedal's but that seemed more credible of it being on a descent so gravity had some saying in it. I think this was mechanical doping, bikes just don't slide like that on flat, they just bounce once of the ground and stop.
That bike dragged itself at 90 degrees across the road... Not 10 metres down the road
@@gwhite7011 Action - reaction. 60 kilo rider goes one way kicking off bike as he unclips. Which way do you expect the 6 kilo bike to go?
@@Llanchlo Not going to get in to a to and fro with you. You think it looks legit, I think it looks dodgy as feck. It propels itself ACROSS the road . Bye now
@@bibartvivian3694 Exactly - it's impossible.
Wind could not force a bike across the road like that and there was no echelon in pack indicated a very high right angle cross wind. It seems the rear wheel was in contact with the road and driving the bike, kinetic energy with no rider would dissipate way before the bike could cross the road and strike the other rider with such force: something doesn’t add up ?
I am not quite sure, this looks really od. the bike crosses the road - could be possible, but afterwards the bike jumps in the air catapulted by the rear wheel - thats more of a concern.
Nonetheless the solution is quite simple, nameplate all bikes in the peloton with a tag, that cannot be removed. any bike can be controlled afterwards with xray etc.
Because the wheel will keep on spinning until it looses energy. Try at home and you damage your bike.
what wind??? the corn in the field beside the road wasn't moving to indicate ANY wind, let alone a strong enough wind to blow the bike across the road.
so mechanics are the new doctors now!
7 kg bike maybe - but the wheels are way too light to propel even that weight at that speed through kinetic energy. And if there is enough wind to push a 7 kg chunk of metal across the road, wouldn't it also move the crops at the side of the road just a little too?!
The only time I saw a bike moving because of windy condition it was on the top of Col daubisque, with 130kmh wind. Clearly not the case here, race would be cancelled if that was the case. A ventoux finish at the top got canceled for 100kmh winds
exactly. not nearly enough wind to propel a bike at that force AT A 90° ANGLE! That bike seemed to jump awfully suspect ata 90° angle. very suspect if you ask me
@@MrCollewet exactly. this was NOT wind!!! the bike jumped at a 90° angle which no way is there enough inertia being made to make a bike do this. to me it was the 90°angle at whichit jumped that makes it suspect to me
Erm, the clip at 38seconds, would that not require the bike to have a reverse gear...
Come on guys. To store a good amount of energy that actually would give somebody a substantial advantage comes with the cost of weight - a lot of weight. And not to forget the motor weight. This could be easily recognized during handling the bikes before and after the race.
Yeah so how do you explain the people that have been caught? With actual motors in the bike.
800 grams....
Are the riders that crashed ok I wonder ?????
You can plainly see the wheel still turning with what appears to be geared force behind it. Why does the UCI or whomever not xray each bike by the rider prior to the race and any extra bikes the team has? This would eliminate it totally. They can't use an excuse of that would take too much time either. Bikes are checked after mechanics set them up day prior, then locked away until race time for the riders.
Crazy scenes!
I've seen this happen without motors involved, but that doesn't mean much here.
Theres no doubt that rear wheel had motor drive to it. I've done amateur races and they also make similar messes, especially now with the general handling quality of pros of late days are messy, but regarding the crash, who are they thinking the BS of the light carbon rim having Momentum to drive the bike like that is a joke. I used light alloy tubulars about same weight and heavier than the wheels seen in races now, and you NEVER saw bikes get powered across the road like that. The guy that gets taken out from that dirty bike should sue the cheat rider. And new tech is needed to sniff out the motors.
when you crash the bike will travel in the direction that the momentum takes it prior to the crash (typically forward or down a hill).......to travel 180 degrees opposite of the rider momentum would require assistance
I think you require assistance for your mental disability.
Also, when I was a kid I crashed once (well,more than once xD ) and my bike kept going without me
I've seen it go on two wheels without me
I've seen it keep rolling while flat on the floor.
And that was just a regular, very cheap, dirtbike I rode.
Sooooo, yeah.
Your bike misses you, it's trying to find you now.
Wow and just as I started to follow your videos. You pull this stunt ? -video clip at 38-39 seconds is played in reverse ... Notice the other riders cyling backwards
In the frame of the bycicle on the place where the motor is should be a hole in. So you never can hide a elektra motor. Should be a rule in frame building. If drivers use a elekro motor in the bycicle expend them for life out of competition.
UCI is too busy measuring sock height
MRI scan of metal? Is that real?
I thought the race scrutineers checked all bikes for motor doping before the start of each stage?
They should be easy to detect, for example every frame could have several small holes drilled into it by the manufacturer so that if scrutineers couldn't see daylight through the holes it meant a motor was in there..:)
They do not check all bikes, only the bike that is started during the race. Watch Fabian "Motor" Cancellera switching up to 4 bikes per race even though there is nothing wrong with them. He has someone from his team at certain locations ( within the crowd) and this person takes the bike away so no one takes a look at it. This was seen in many races and it was clear he was switching the bikes due to the battery on the bottle pack running out. After UCI starting scanning the bikes where is Fabian now? He disappeared right after they started doing the seat post scans. The switching of bikes during races with no flat tires, no mechanical problems is highly suspicious and UCI needs to take the swapped bikes, not the team mechanics. All swapped bikes should be handled only by UCI staff.
@@carlosquin4822- Thanks, and if UCI got tougher by slapping life bans on all cheats (including doping cheats) fewer riders would risk cheating.
Sad to say, the UCI is probably in on it. They've lost the battle and cannot survive all the bad PR. So, they cover it up. Or make it seem not so serious.
Why would someone be using an electric motor on a downhill downwind portion of the race? I mean the group was split and they were chasing...but really, it isn't going to do much for you at that speed/pace/wind. More lack of understanding of something that has existed for hundreds and longer years....with wheels.
What you fail to mention is why teams now have such massive rear blocks, even on flat stages. This gives plenty of room to hide the components needed for the motorisation. Certainly I have not heard a valid reason why such a big block is fitted.
Which rider is this?
There is no wind look at the corn …still as can be
What if someone doesn't kno what motor doping is? An explanation would be nice, before starting the video.
Lifetime ban and removal of name from any medals or championships during and before if proven to of cheated..
So we can wonder: did we have bikes moving like this with a wheel spinning like that in 1990 or 2000. Plenty of footage of falling riders are there any that behaved like this? How many times since this technology could be put into a bike? I have no clue, but it is another angle.
They go at incredible speed but there is nothing to see. The tyres are big and when the contact on the ground it will drag away from it sposition. Simpe as that.
Surely if the power was coming from the bottom bracket the pedals would have still been turning
The biggest problem here is not the bicycle with a motor , its the fact that it managed to get past the starting line , how many people would have to be involved in getting that one bike into the peliton it is conspiracy level , somebody is paying someone to build this bike for the rider to use in a professional race if he didn't crash how many races does that bike make it past the officials into a race , this literally undermines every honest rider and team . Fines and bans are not enough deterant ..,.
Unless throttle stuck. rear would be spinning. No
If you would try to enter an airport gate with such a bike you would be stopped by security right away. UCI has to accomodate this technology and stop mecanical dopping forever. It can’t be that hard.
Lance being interviewed by Oprah hahaha
no more saddle tube link with bottom bracket😂😂😂
The 3 laws of motion were in action as well as boyancy.
i mean after a crash like that Im sure they will inspect the bike post-crash. Nothing suspicious here
Thats 100% the rotational energy saved within the wheel.
Why don't you grab the bike at look at it instead of talking about it when it happens.
This seems like it could easily be checked before and after stints.
Similar to F1 or really any racing series has scrutineering
New title of this video, ‘this could’
Don't buy, that Lance had a motorized bike. Batteries were still very large and heavy at that time, so no way. I can't except motorized bikes, but bring back the EPO days in the mountains.
our modern Lithium batteries existed then, were just incredibly expensive
@@metalface8515 But they were huge and heavy. So that would out weigh their benefits.
If the UCI allow for any loopholes in propellation of a bicycle, soon the team cars and media bikes will be competing to win the TDF.
So how many bikes, and when, with which riders have been PROVEN to use electrical-mechanical assistance on the drive system?
They'll always be cheats in this sport, but they eventually get found out. Maybe some might get away with a cheat a few times before being caught.
Strange situation. That bike must have CERAMIC bearings.
Well is true motordoping is being in sports for decades and continues happening we need More sewfisticated sensor to locate who's doing motordoping
Motordopping doesnt exist. Not enough power (little battery) if you have to ride 130 to 200km per Stage and adds to much weight.
If you rode a road bike at 40+ km/h, you would understand that there is a lot of power in the spinning wheels. If you crash, the wheels are still spinning (of course) and the power has to go sonewhere. This results in this „miracle“.
Proven hidden motor on a race bike (during race) should result in lifetime ban for both rider & mechanic/s of said bike.
And if UCI know motoring is going on, it reflects badly on them for not stopping it, and people are bound to ask if some corrupt UCI officials are being secretly paid big money by the team management to turn a blind eye.
Anything involved money, there will always be cheaters and abusers who will take advantage of anything to gain the price.
The wind my arse
To make it fair, teams shouldn’t have their own bikes. The riders should all ride UCI-provided bikes and all mechanics should work for the UCI, not the teams. All riders on the same bikes.
Just check the bikes 🤦🏻
If I'm not mistaken the UCI is x-raying some bikes after some races, which would make motordoping impossible.
its only random checks and not done enough
its the wind
False accusations are also crime, some countries are creating laws against it.
Very easy to solve, impound team bikes the night before the stage. O, guess that won't work the teams don't trust the officials.
Colnago did with Wout's Cyclo-cross bike May be they have done it this Year Maybe
If any Chances
Pog’s bike?
How fucking sad of a human you actually have to be to ride a bike with a hidden motor in a pro competition. Mind-boggling.
The bike was looking the Mad Cow for half of moment too long, for sure.
0:03
やってんなあ。
I think this phenomenon is due to motor-doping or hurricanes.
triste pour la beauté e se sport
I saw the interview of the hungarian designer who was paid millions.. not to reveal the name of the user during Armstrong era..
Varjas István
The name
do you know where I can see that interview?