WAKING THE TIGER BATTLE PLANS GUIDE 2.0 - DAY 1# - Hearts of Iron 4 (HOI4)
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ALSO! You can draw a fallback line for the WHOLE army group is you select the field marshal. BUT you can also draw fallback lines for each General for selecting them
FeedBackGaming -How did u get the generals under your field marshalls like that?
FeedBackGaming don't you lose planning bonus significantly faster now then you used too if you micro manually rather than let the ai do it
Is it cadet or Colonel edition?
I recently completely by accident created an army group. No idea how i did it. How do you create an army group?
@@marinewarriorus You select the armies you want (shift+click) and right click on the large + icon on the left of the army line.
There's so many screwy things about the battle plans this patch, it's madness. MADNESS
Aldra Hill, I've watched you and Dave, Spiff, and a few others whom I have watched play this game for hours on end struggle with this new mechanic. I have more hours than I care to admit to on this game, and I have "rage quit" twice now because battle plans I drew either weren't being followed as I envisioned they would be, or the battle plan lines just disappeared entirely. I tend to play like Dave and go for tank encirclements, but if you have a couple of wars maybe going on at once (Barbarossa and the new "always" Communist Spain attacking through France, for example) you can micro one front, but you depend on the player's side of the AI to at least maintain some sort of meaningful attack on the other one that you can't micro. I have watched as the AI encircles one enemy troop and then has 8 of my troop idly stand by and watch and do nothing. Maybe they are pouring them a cup of tea, who knows! You get a couple of those happening and suddenly 16 of your generals 24 troops are standing around having tea and biscuits while the enemy makes a counter offensive. Beyond madness!
It is absolutely infuriating, isn't it! I don't understand what's happened to the battleplan AI. At present, they just stand around and don't much at all half the time, leaving you to need to manually control them.
HOWEVER, planning bonus now decays at 8x the speed if you manually control them! Just making a video on it now in fact.
The field marshal frontline is pure bullshit. I always used a mod for no division limit since these updates. Now I wanted to earn some achievments via iron man mode and had to deactivate these mods. I had 200 divisions on my front to germany with 8 generals. The field marshal AI couldnt rly handle it. Sometimes the units were not at the region where they were supposed to be according to the frontline of the field marshal. Germans occasionally broke through and ruined the frontline. Never had such a mess in the all the games since release. I dont want to manage 30 generals in mid and late game!
Thank you for making this video! As always you're helping me out very much :)
I have this annoying late game bug. When I draw a front line with a field marshal and give him a attack order, about a minute later the order and front line disappears and the units just stands there.. And this happens continuously. Does anyone else have this bug?
This is a problem with the unaccessible parts of map. Its fixed in the beta patch
Oh wow there's a beta patch? Downloading it right now. What's new in the beta patch? Mostly bug fixing I assume.
Ok, thank you for replying.
thank you Dave this is EXACTLY what I asked for
NP dude! Any time ;)
Nice pfp lol.
Can you make a video on how air supply works? Thanks
YES! Good idea!
Ooof I was about to comment it too
Good you possibly do a full video on the new features of air war? For example: air supply, air volunteers, assigning air wings to generals and strategic bombing, plus anything else I've missed. Thanks
This makes things so much easier which I had watched this video when I started a Japan campaign, I would have minimized the casualties and problems I had. Thanks Dave!
This actually really helped me, thanks!
I needed this so bad, so Thanks Dave
Super helpful video! I have been playing since Waking the Tiger released, and had been struggling a bit with micromanaging my armies.
Man this has blown my mind what a time saver for my games hahaha
I would suggest one theater with a field marshall that commands all the infantry for keeping the frontline from fracturing, and one theater and field marshall for tank and motorised armies that get independent frontlines for spearheading priority targets and planning large encirclements.
You could also do three layers to seperate the motorised and have them secure advances made by the tanks while these focus on blitzkrieging.
These new generals and how they function makes me reconsider why senor hilter fired his general staff. I get real frustrated when they go and send all my men on vacation during the middle of operation Barbarossa
Thanks you bro I learned a lot of things.
12 minutes well spent. Thanks dude!
Thanks for this tutorial, it really helped me :D
Any tutorial suggestions?
What desicions are useful, and what are not?
Great video, very useful
Historical ai has changed a lot. In one of my Japan games, Germany and Sov weren’t at war until late 43. Sov volunteers covered the entire front line in China. Once their big tank armies arrived, I was pushed back almost to Korea. There were also a huge number of UK troops in China along the border. Germany had the war goal, but never declared war until very late (which was terrible for them and me).
When deleting a single line from a general on the field marshal frontline, the line automaticly redistribute the remaining frontlines of generals under your field marshal. Its a nice feature :D I often just put the main frontline down with the field marshal to get everyone there, then delete the ones I want to do something special. The way you did it with rommel here in the video works aswell, but you wont have him under a field marshal anymore unless you assign him a new one.
I love your "Feeeeeedbaaack gaming" :D Good job, as always, thanks
I feel like a f'n moron for doing the lines manually for each general now, this is even faster! thanks lad :P
Oh my god thank you so much I have been scrambling to understand what I was doing wrong since Waking The Tiger cane out
Very nice video. I came to the same conclusion. But it is nice to get confirmation.
It may be early, but i have some questions about the current meta:
1. How have the land doctrines changed? I've read that with the changes to planning, GBP is OP right now.
2. Is line arty worth it anymore? Does it depend on the doctrine? And in general, are there things that you should and shouldn't build in WtT.
3. Is 40 width still king? Some have claimed that 10 width infantry, with the supperior air force and better recovery/reinforce rate beats everything.
1. They nerfed sup firepower and grand battle. By lower soft attack bonus's and lower planning speed cap
2. Artillery has been nerfed. Making air stronger. Maybe rocket artillery are a better option now?
3. As far as I'm aware 40 width is still great BUT 10 width is a very powerful option for defending too
FeedBackGaming what do you mean with air is stronger? Can you do a video on how artillery and combat in general changed in wtt?
You can draw orders for both the general and the field marshal(army group) and the general(army) will follow his order till it completes then follow the field marshals orders till new ones are given to him. That way you can have an over all offensive but have individual orders to take key objectives. You could of had Rommel in the first Army Group but if you just delete his orders on where to sit on the line the Field Marshal will redraw it so that it uses only the other 4, then you can put Rommel with an attack order like you did but still in the same Army Group as everyone else, and he would use Field Marshals orders as well as everyone else if he completed his order.
A general or field marshal can also have 72 units under his command if it is a garrison order, it doesn't take effect till time ticks so it will show 24 while paused if you just create that order.
You can also have more then one Army Group in a theater, each army group gets it's own tab below the main theater window.
Good job! But I have a question all the trait of Field marshal are applied to the general, for example, if a FM is an old guard all of the army under his control will receive 12,5% less experience (half of 25 from the trait)?
Good question! I don't know
No, the leader only receives the experience penalty
You can also select an army in your field marshal grow, ctrl click on FM order and assign that army to that part of FM front, and then give that army its own move order to override FM's move order
I LIKE IT!
Thanks. Great Video
Cheers for helping out! I lost to Ethiopia as Italy earlier.
If you want to railroad all armies under a field marshall just click on the field marshall, so that he and every army under his command is shown on the left. After that there is a button on the field marshall tab (the on on the top left) which looks like a command tree. Its right next to the "select all" button. Now you have every unit select from all the armies under the field marshall und you can command them like you are used to.
about field marshals and generals traits; when you start the game, you get the option to just add traits to them straight away, thou should i maybe hold on giving them traits to unlock the greyed-out traites which I could (maybe) earn later on? I'm somewhat confused about those...
A general can only have a max of 5 traits so I wouldn't recommend spamming traits
anyway, i'd suggest a video on all the traits then!
You can still use filed marshals as you used to. All you need to do is to split all forces among generals under field marshal then draw a field marshal's front line and then delete all generals' frontlines. Ai will then spread your forces across the front line as it used to and if you draw a offensive order from your field marshal you will still receive planing bonus. You can even hide the generals' icons. Only drawback is that you will have red '!' all across your army. ;)
How do I use the new drag and drop edit advancement arrow system? I really need this to be covered, thankyou!
Hope that helps czcams.com/video/meZsHOydOsE/video.html
FeedBackGaming Actually I didn't :/ I'm pretty sure it's a new feature, when you press the edit button on the orders menu instead of right clicking on the arrow and moving it up and down you can right click on the frontline and start drawing it all the way to some "blinking orders" I cannot find, thankyou for your help
also, that strategy as well as establishing a common border with USSR further east. it also bypasses “Rhineland” & “Danzig or War”, giving 2 free national foci.
Another way to save up field marshalls and still have your panzer troops benefit from them is to draw your front lines with four armies as you did in the video, then put the panzer army back under the field marshall and draw their own plan.
Hey, you are doing a great job and watching your videos helped me big time in this game. Can you please make a video about how to handle the rebellions ? What I heard is cavs with mp are the best in that but I didnt understand how the rebellions work. And it is hurting me big time because I cant use like 50 factorys because they are damaged because of rebellions. And also how should build my factorys for major countries at the start of the game ? Thanks, keep up the good work
@FeedBackGaming How do you handle the western front with this system? If you do not have one continious frontline but several frontlines. One for netherlands, one for belgium one for france for example.
If you click the select all button on your army group field marshal it selects all the divisions and you can then use the railroad.
I don't understand how capturing equipment works
YES! A video on that is coming!
Wow, didn't think I'd get a reply. I feel so special :)
Holy shiite that helps a lot. Thank you.
One note on the Field Marshal system: in my test game as Japan, after conquering China, I went after the Soviet Union. I noticed that the individual armies under the Field Marshal's front line start to spread out to the point were armies are covering areas larger than 24 divisions can cover. To fix this, I simply deleted the Field Marshal's line and made it again. That way the lines were covered. It may not be noticeable in Europe, but in the case were the front line stretches from Eastern Siberia to the Urals it becomes a problem.
Thanks. The new system was a mystery to me.
I like to promote Heinz Guderian to a field marshal after France falls and then assign all my armored armies under him. When you promote a general to a field marshal you get to select 2 field marshal traits you want which is really helpful.
hey man, thanks for your videos. they are quite useful. Yet, I have one question about the game mechanic, what is the best way to calculate the supply capacity of my fronts. I mean, if there is a way to calculate the supply capacity of my infrastructure before the actual advance started.
finaly u got it
Dave, 1. It seems like I'm the only one calling this update "Cornflakes Waking the Tiger". Please do a vid on the subject.
2. If I draw a front line the "proper" way (i.e. letting the field marshal automagically draw the lines for the generals), is there a way for me to specify how the chunks are divided among the generals? What if I want the general who got assigned to the northern section to get the southern section?
P.S. Are 40-width divisions still the best? Are Battleships still a better investment than a balanced fleet?
Yes; 40 width still the best (if you have both the equipment and manpower) both the ideal composition might be different. Less line artillery/perhaps none other than support artillery for defense?
The main issue I have is that with a smaller nation you struggle to have enough generals. I am currently playing a France playthrough, defeated Germany now invading the Soviets and have 500+ divisions but just cannot get enough generals. I think the political power to create generals should be inversely proportional to the number of men in your army. So an army with 5 million men gets their 30th general the same price as a 500k army gets their 3rd.
I don't think you need to move a general into a new theater to give them a separate field marshal, you can have more than one army group in each theater.
Gerd Von Rundstedt now is the only field marshall that can get both ofensive and defensive doctrines
Im pretty sure that you can just delete Rommel's front line off of the field marshall order, and then set your own manual order for him, still under the field marshall
When your faced with border gore due to allied landings ect is there an easy way to create new front lines with a field marshall. Before you would create a new front line, select a number of troops then cnt click them over, but now with the generals all occupying a part of the FMs front line how can we easyily transfer troops over to a new secondary front line without having to go through all our generals units and removing some to add to a new general and new fm?
Thanks for the video, but I am running into a problem. I can't assign more than one front line to a field marshall where he manages them all. Take for instance the low countries and France. If I put a front line for all 4 countries with a field marshall, he will only assign armies to the first one I draw. The only way to do a new front line in those countries is the draw a front line with an individual army, then the front line fucks up royally. HUGE gaps, and insane UI gore. Maybe you know how to assign specific armies to the field marshall's multiple front lines?
Thanks for the tutu
if you select the field marshal then theres a button to show armies or divisions and i guess if you show divisions your hotkey will work again
I lost my entire Soviet army of 150 divisions because i made seprate frontline for all of them :(
Pujan Shah I lost the war with the allies and Soviets like the real Germany because I made separate frontlines for all of them when attacking the Soviets:(
dKerns77 It should be patched like if the front lines keep on moving then the game will be much more fun ❤️ less micro too lol pls Paradox if ur seeing this comment pls concider it in the future patch.
Ouch.
Pujan Shah If you think hoi4 is to micro, you should try playing any other paradox game. I haven’t played with the new frontlines though, it probably sucks though
Alexander The Turtle it does to some extent but it’s manageable lol
I was playing Germany yesterday, just got hearts of iron 4. And I ended up making one of those gaps in my front line then the AI made one of those cancer tumors. I went to war against Poland and it looked good at first, I was looking at the French border when I noticed that the polish were heading towards my capital. That's when I saw that cancer tumor of a front line 😫 it cut off my army from its supply and I I lost half my troops that way. Cudos to Poland for effort.
Thankfully Hungary ended up moving up and cutting Warsaw away from Poland which led them to capitulate and me winning the war.
I believe that my troops aren’t attacking like they used to, I do most manually now, but that sucks hard. How can I make my troops attack (especially empty provinces) like they used to? They‘re just sitting around at the frontline...
No front line order? Or not activated the battle plan?
Ak iraa Did you put your aggressiveness high enough?
Ak iraa Also, attacking empty provinces is not ALWAYS the best idea, especially with the new update. Even if it looks like a nice surround, you have to be smart about it. Attacking with say 1 division on the area you want to surround while another division on the tile next to it moves to surround, and using several spare divisions nearby to occupy the tiles you are gonna be taking is the best and safest way to do it now.
Don´t know if PD fixed it yet but in my first game after DLC came out i had a lot of issues with Frontlines for Generals that got longer and longer while others got shorter resulting in a General that tried to cover an Area for 24 Divisions with 12 Tank Divisions and another that had 24 Infantry Divisions for a 8 Province long Frontline.
So jeah it´s cool that when you draw the Frontline with a Fieldmarshall it get´s distributed but if it doesn´t continue to evaluate and adjust the Generals it´s pretty garbage.
Old fassion still works just get your field Marshall and assign no commander/General. You just wont have the extra bonus of the generals
Mind blown.... unhappy I missed some of this
Great video. Was losing a ton of stats without even knowing.
Noob question alert:
Lets say I'm fighting on the eastern and western fronts as germany. I therefore need 2 front lines. How does this work? Do I need two different sets of 1x field Marshall and 5x generals? Another exemple, the USA Will never have just 1 front... they make naval invasions everywhere. Does that basically mean there Will be gaps in between my fronts everywhere because i can 't assign the whole army To 1 front? Can i have 2 or 3 sets of full armies? Just starting out the game, Thanks for the help and videos!
how do you handle new troops being added to the front line? in the old system you would just assign to the field marshal but obviously that wont work. outside of armour (which is added to specific armies and is a special little snowflake) how do you easily add new units/armies to the front without leaving a massive gap while they come in from berlin?
thank you
My Barbarosa now consist of building 120 40-width division, the strongest I can get. Draw the general frontline order, and click go. The ai will encircle the Soviet units, no problem.
OMG! Thank You!
Wouldn't mind a tutorial on war support and how to build it. Mainly using non majors that are democratic are incredibly more difficult cause to change conscription law.
Also what is your opinion on making manpower build at a slow rate? Would love to see you do a minor nation, with the new dlc mechanics, it make playing a minor other nation like Denmark near impossible.
Does keeping Rommel separate from the field marshal not mean that you're losing half the field marshal's stats? Would it not be better to keep Rommel part of the army to get the most stats
Yes! At the end of the video I explain its most optimal to have every general underneath a field marshal
Do you have Bugs with the Synchronisation with Army XP too?
What?
I don't understand what the gold wings under the portraits at the bottom are for and how to use them
Dave.. Come on bro... I had such high hopes that you had learned this by now. Non-Fieldmarshal traits gives 50% to the generals. Fieldmarshal traits give the complete buff to each general under his command. You showed the perfect example. Rommel had 20 entrenchment without Rundstedt. With Rundstedt's 30% buff Rommel had 27 entrenchment. 7/20=0,35. So you actually get a 35% buff to entrenchment(don' ask me why, with Rundstedt Rommel's entrenchment should be 26). Now if Rundstedt had a non-Fieldmarshal trati, like infantry expert or mountaineer, that would mean Rommel would get 50% of that buff.
Love your channel. More playthroughs with weird goals please! Malayan communist fascist FTW!
I'm confused are you agreeing with me or not?
Field marshal traits are a separate group of traits that only a field marshal can get. Those traits apply 100% to all generals serving under a field marshal.
If a field marshal has been slumming it the lower class and obtained general traits, those also apply to all generals serving under that field marshal, but only 50%.
thnx dave.
How do I create an army group?
Nevermind.
But thanks for the video!
You don't need to add new theater for new field-marshal -- a theater can have xx field-marshals (including their up to 5 generals) and xx generals right ?
I'm fairly new to the game, but after the update it seems that getting enough victory points to get your enemy to surrender is a lot harder to achieve now. I was at war with the USSR and had to beat them back to the Ural Mountains (Japan took there east coast) and there capital was only worth one vp by then. It said they would surrender after they held 20% or less, which confuses me.
10:14 Why not also give a (separate) Field Marshall for Rommel as well so he gets half skill point bonuses from someone as well? It looks like Germany starts with plenty of Field Marshals.
What about the new command point orders? When should I be using them?
What happens if the order backfires? Stuff like that.
can you explain why inf/arty divisions can no longer push as well?
They nerfed soft attack. Its a huge buff for air power
how do you move a general from one part of the field marshal's front line to another part?
YES!
Hey on vanilla hoi4 is it possible to get to the trait tree for the leaders. Because I can't find it
I still don't understand this case. Let say I have Von Runstead command 5 armies, one of which is Rommel's Panzer army. My field marshall have a big front line (that cover the entire border) and an offensive line, while Rommel have a separate front line (which is a part of field marshall front line) and another offensive/spearhead line. What happen when I execute both battle plan?
If you execute both plans BOTH they will push into the offensive order you've drawn for them
I mean will the panzer prioritize the spear head command or they will spread out to help the field marshal with the big front line.
BOTH! They have different orders. They will try to achieve the orders you've given to them
Ok, I'll test these thing when I have time. Thanks for your video!
If the panzer leader is subordinate to an AI controlled field marshall, they get their part of the field marshall´s frontline. That means, they cannot fully concentrate on the spearhead. That is why the method shown in the video is better, because the troups of the field marshall will try to hold the line on their own and the spearhead is free to do their thing.
That didnt work at my Poland game, AI left TONS of empty tiles to reinforce a battle that looks initially favors the Germans. This does distribute your divisions evenly at first but as war goes AI fucks you up no matter what.
Why? Not enough divisions to fill the front line. Could be you redrew a front line mid-war. Could be your divisions are too weak so the ai pushes you're divisions out the way before you can fill a new front line. MAYBE you're losing a front and need to pull back to a fallback line and don't do it quick enough
No I actually did an experiment with the save game where I just observed what is going on with the front line. Before the war 3 divisons on each tile perfectly stable. As soon as battles start divisions start to shuffle around. I will share the savegame file here, so everyone can test it too if they'd like. Btw, I dont have the DLC.
drive.google.com/file/d/1FNdmRi7eIHWF93IaBNpMNXLNsyGcTO0g/view?usp=sharing
I saw similar things go wonky with the command ai as Manchukuo in China: armies stopping, inexplicable bunching of units in some places, and gaps in others. This was relying on the FM offensive order, with all armies showing the plan active, and a single contiguous front line.
first mistake was playing as poland
I knew the AI was still wonky. Having a single field marshal front line previously was good, at least no gaps even if the troops keeps shuffling around. But now with separate armies, it's worse if you have a huge frontline.
It feels so awkward fighting on multiple fronts with a field Marshal. Is there any way to have them split up their lines? If you are attacking someone from the north and the country is in between the two so you assign a Frontline to the bottom front the AI puts all your generals on the top line. And when you try and move generals to your bottom line it doesn't work, has anyone had this happen? Can anyone help? The only solution I found was individually taking generals off and making battle lines
How does the system know how to distribute your units when using the FM deployment?? Ex you had a panzer army with Rommel, does it know to deploy armor on plains?
Actually, in this version orders suck. Field marshal front line makes the field marshal set their generals' frontlines according to the amounts of their division count. So a general with 6 divs will have a smaller frontline than a general with 18 divs. However, the AI is still stupid... And now more than ever. It likes to relocate units unreasonably and I can't count how many times I got completely screwed by the AI. Much better, although a pain, to micromanage.
I do the frontlines exactly they way you show in this video, but it just doesn't feel as smooth as it was before. The troops are never as evenly spread along the frontline as they used to be before the patch.
Agreed. It requires x3 as many clicks. And its more tricky to judge how many divisions you need to fill the front
Do one on unlocking more factory slots per province. I like playing as smaller nations and this is always a problem.
So 50% of the field marshal's stats are transfered over to each individual general, correct? But what about the traits? At the end there you showed a division with 20 entrenchment. Then you moved Rundstedt there, who had the 30% entrenchment bonus. Then the infantry had 27 entrenchment. 30% of 20 is 6, and there were probably some margin of error in calculating that 20 default entrenchment. It seems like all of the field marshal traits pass down a 100% to the generals.
Yes and yes. BUT I don't know how the numbers are calculated. Which might explain weird rounding or down issues
Definitely cover border skirmishes
Hi FeedBackGaming and community, I was hoping someone could help me with an issue I am having giving the ‘attempt to lower resistance’ section of the garrison order in the new waking tiger dlc. I have tried giving the order to a General with no field marshal, a General with a field marshal and giving the order only to the field marshal and none of these seem to work. Some of the units seem to move (say 20%) and the others just stay where they were last ordered. This is despite there being yellow and orange resistance level states within the garrison order territory. If I switch the ‘defend victory points’ section of the order on all of the divisions spring into life and go to the victory point locations. I have tried disbanding and reforming the army/army groups, restarting the game and restarting my PC. I am assuming this is a known bug or am i missing something. This order did work (as well as asking the AI to reduce suppression ever will) before Installing the DLC. Sorry for the long comment and thanks in advance to any help/feedback anyone can give.
Garrison is broken at the moment. Try the beta patch
FeedBackGaming thank you for the speedy reply, I will try the beta batch and let you know how I get on. Really looking forward to more tutorial/guide content from you. I have left reply’s with what tutorial/guide’s I would like to see but just off the top of my head if you do want some inspiration; all 3 special forces, acclimatisation and effects on stats, how to use tanks/special forces in a army group effectively, new division template names (historical lists), what the new decisions do (including the SS recruitment various options), is Himmler a good Field Marshal?? Thanks in advance and love the channel and content!
Ok, we have FM and Generals in one army group. And generals will gain bonuses from FM. But what will happend if we promote our generals in FM ? At the start they will have -1 penalties for all stats for 98 days. But after that they will have generals stats, FM stats what will pick, and they have bonus from first FM. It is this correct ?
Why dont my old tank divisions work anymore? They are 40 width, consist of 4-6 med SPA, 4/5 Mot/Mec and the rest medium tank battalions, engineer and recon support companies. They used to roll over everything, now they struggle against 18 width inf divisons. My 40 width inf divisions with support artillery and 2-4 artillery battalions are stronger in battles. Did tanks get a nerf?
Soft attack has been nerfed for all infantry weapons and artillery. Might need more SPG's now. Not sure
FeedBackGaming I feel like attack in general has been hit with a massive over nerf that means attack of any kind is about 10* more difficult and mainly just ineffective
Would be nice if you could delve into the mystery of border conflicts.
It’s a huge list, if you were a major part of the war
Dave I played as Japan and I had my law on total mobilization. Then after a while my manpower was at zero, I tried changing my conscription law but my manpower wouldn't increase
Can you do a video on how to execute case anton, ive tried it and it did nothing for me
pls explain general and field marshell traits more in deph
hi Dave ..nice work ...
Any tutorial suggestions?
yeah...play as Poland pls...
I dont understand how to use subs. WHen i send them on a mission as Germany they die in seconds !!!!!! Convoy raiding .
Try basing your subs in Italy, or spain. When they move there then they'll go out of their way to not engage anyone. Do this by selecting the submarine group and I believe its ctrl+right clicking
+1
Maybe a bit specific but i have no idea what the "test the soviets" decicion does and what to do to complete it. It annoyed me that i got a debuff for something i didnt understand.
Its a border conflict like the ones in china. Yes! I will cover it in a video!
FeedBackGaming i see, i dont know how those work either. Nice