False Hope of Hot and Cold: Intermittent Reinforcement, Trauma Bonding, Approach-Avoidance
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- čas přidán 19. 12. 2022
- Intermittent reinforcement is the core mechanism behind trauma bonding. It covers disparate phenomena such as giving false hopes and approach-avoidance repetition compulsion in Borderline Personality Disorder.
There are 4 types of intermittent reinforcement:
Fixed interval schedule(FI)
Variable Interval schedule (VI)
Fixed ratio schedule (FR)
Variable Ratio Schedule (VR)
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Living in a cortisol overdrive is one of the things that diminishes the person being abused over the long term. The body literally burns out living in high stress.
I absolutely agree, and unfortunately this happened to me. I became physically sick, losing my hair with no real diagnosis, but l knew deep down it was all due to the extreme highs and lows of the relationship as the Professor describes. I am currently working on regaining my health both physically and mentally.
So true, I feel like I "spent" what should've been a lifetime of cortisol during my childhood...
Do you have any chronic pain?
@@catherinehinkle8596 get better soon 🙏
You have described me. All my life. Severe physical & neuronal burnout.
This knowledge should be taught in high school. Thank you, Professor, for yet another great lesson 🙏
It is if you take psychology lol
‘ I reject you to make you stay’
My counselor just told me it will be like coming off drugs because the dopamine and adrenaline I’m experiencing from this relationship.
Thank you so much!
It will be just like that, hard drugs. Get strong, get ready.
The withdrawals will be torture! Gather every scrap of courage, hold fast to your support people and understand it's going to hurt like nothing before. But once you're out the other side you can breathe again
It’s said that breaking a trauma bond is more difficult than breaking a heroin addiction! I’ve never had a drug addiction, but I can tell you that trying to break a trauma bond is nothing less than pure hell! Just stating the facts!
Yes. Mine compares it to alcoholism
I’m interested in how these forms of abuse/ manipulation are utilized in governments and by politicians on the unsuspecting collective.
I’ve always hated people who operate like this & I’m so bored of abusers, maladjusted & miserly unrequiteds who are mistaken to believe that obsessing over others will heal their pathetic void. I’m tired of their grandiose view of themselves as powerful when they are weak & terrified, their self obsession with others & their complete inability to handle a fraction of what they do to their victims. These fools need to get over themselves. Everything about them is inadequate & unwanted & they are too stupid or fragile to understand it. Have you ever noticed their sheer terror at being irrelevant? And how they try to compensate for that fear by cartoonishly “dominating” situations? And all the things they do to ensure you’ll never think of them positively again? The truth is they are irrelevant & unable & unwanted & always will be. No matter how many relationships they start they manage the same uselessness. Their opinion doesn’t matter at all because they don’t matter.
They can’t reward, comfort, soothe, inspire, communicate, connect, empathise, they are completely useless. They have no value.
I know people who are so fragile they lie to themselves about the effectiveness of their abuse. That’s the other thing about abusers, their standards for themselves are so low they are practically nonexistent.
Thank you Professor. I've been subjected to this treatment by a sibling, and her enablers and flying monkeys. It does cause bodily harm and leads to disease.
Thanks for putting out quality content on a consistent basis 🎉
1 year since breakup, then months of her making me feel bad on one side and coming back to me, making me hope again ("we should do this and that next") just to get bad words and blocked again and again. I think now 5 weeks of no contact and I'm still in a very bad spot of guilt and terrible flashbacks of all the good times.
Interested in understanding how a person learns to do this to other people. I felt like he was trained in psychological warfare.
Most probably this is something they have native in their blood. Not sure where you can learn such evil behaviours.
I'll be sharing the other side of the coin...
Believe it or not, it's often just innate!
I didn't suffer any trauma but I was a pathological liar as a little kid. At first I did it because I found it fun, then I realized it evoked emotions that made people benefit me somehow. I think that's where it started!
This led to a manipulative teenager, and now adult. I just very recently became aware of this, and I'm trying to work on it.
The cycle of love bombing then vanishing (intermittent reinforcement) is something I do instinctively, I've never thought deeply about it until I watched a random yt vid recommendation and it hit close to home. So now I'm doing some research on the subject and some things are starting to make sense (e.g. all the manipulation and why it's so easy for me to discard people)
I did therapy for a year but never mentioned any of this since I wasn't aware it wasn't an issue.
It really isn't something to be proud of.
I can't speak for others but for me personally I never intended to hurt anyone's feelings, it was just about me getting what I wanted...
I wonder if going back to therapy would help me maybe be more empathetic or wtv I need to not be a toxic person to others, because I didn't choose that.
(edit: typo)
@@AnaCarolina23yof course you chose that. What a silly thing to say! You make a choice to behave in a specific way everyday! Definitely go back to therapy because you sound psychopathic.
Thank you Professor Vaknin for yet more insight into the less tangible forms of abuse. You explain with crystal clarity what most never even touch upon 🙏
Trauma bond is extremely painfull, thankfully im over it finally
How long? I’m 3 months into the brake up & still have these intermittent, traumatic cries. It makes no sense because I know cognitively. This is a toxic situation, and I am definitely safer away from him yet I continue to have these emotions. We were together almost 7 years and it was a nightmare of intermittent reinforcement. Future faked, we were engaged… Push Pool dynamic constantly while never integrating with my family… Finally had the courage to end it and walk away. I would appreciate if anybody reading this would reply I could use any kind of encouragement.
@@jodijodi6228 was your ex a narcissist?
@@FroggyFrog9000 no I don’t believe so just very selfish I suppose… he came out of a very bad marriage of 20 years I do believe she is a narcissist. Which I suppose made me vulnerable to continue to give him plenty of time and space to heal… All the while I sat on the back burner being the supportive, loving one. on the surface, we pretty much had such a great relationship we truly never fought, but his ambiguity was always a low vibration. However, his words were loving and supportive and future faking… I just don’t want to love him anymore, but for some reason, I can’t seem to let go, and I feel so foolish. I say this, but from the day that I ended things I have been true to my word I have not reached out to him. I have turned down any requests of conversations… It is killing me, but I have not turned back, even though I am falling apart, emotionally behind closed doors..
@@jodijodi6228I am now 4 months No contact. I initiated it after 6.5 years of trying to fix the relationship I am relieved I did not marry him while I was in the dark, when I started understanding and became aware of his poor behaviour, I was able to put a label ( intermittent reinforcement) on his ghosting and disappearing acts, his lack of being accountable/ responsible all the lies and future faking … he was a full blown covert narcissist . I am still on the healing path I have physical pain that is still there because of the stress he subjected me to , but am sure I will be able to recover. I hope you healed and that you re in a better place now
I love this professor...always on point.He talks about deep concepts and topics explained in understandable way..He is also sexy. Thank you.
So true about seeking the reaction, sometimes she would say that wanted me strong and tried to not react to abuse but it just gets worse and worse untill as you said, you show them what they want, its soul crushing more now that I know what is happening but not leaving yet..
Oh my god. You just described my life. Ruined my marriage. And SAVED MY LIFE! I've been in therapy for more years than I've been married and for some reason, this issue was never addressed or at least not in the way I could understand it. Or maybe was READY to hear it.😭
I'm scared to death. I am at my most vulnerable time of my life, poor health, no job and very little resources if any to fall back on.On top of 13 years of this in my relationship with my husband, I lost my(not his biological) 22 year old son 3 years ago. Since then, I have been diagnosed with several medical disorders, hormones, auto immune, recurrent infections ect. I have been feeling like im dying. I think this step is going to be a difficult one because somehow I still feel like have love for him! It is crazy! But I see now, I CANNOT go on anymore like this. I must let go so that I can learn to breathe again. Thank you! I am a subscriber on the first video I have ever seen by you!
@staciejean
Please try to get reliable and appropriate help and support,
and possibly *therapy.
*Make sure to double check that the therapist is properly registered to deliver the kind of therapy that you need. Seek second, or even third, opinions. Wishing you the very best for your future.
@@glenyshill72 thank you, I am in therapy and have been. I don't know that any therapy can make this easier for me right now 😞
Sadly all so familiar 😕 Glad I'm free of it now...
Professor Vaknin, thank you.
Thanks a million!!! So grateful for sharing your wisdom with us! 😊
It happened with me.. Oh, it feels so helpless.. not liking someone and still can not think of leaving..
It felt that being with that person was painful and leaving was more painful.. Finally , i left.After going through completely no contact for 7/8 months, everything is different.. I feel like living again. Thank you , Prof. Sam. I got helped from your videos too.
good info cheers.
9 liters of beer and 1 liter of shit, is 10 liters of shit
Sam, write a book about cover narcissism! You’re great!
Valuable insights as always thanks Sam. Explains so well the suffering cycle inflicted by parents by trauma bonds and repetion compulsion in life.
It is unbelievably eye opening! Very good explanation, thank you!
These videos are great! The chef's kiss was the smile at the end
All those words are precious gems!! Love you always Sam VAknin
Thank you. This behaviour is so "normal" in daily life I always doubt that it's abusive...
Thank you.....Merry Christmas x
11:52 I saw this line of thinking in a BPD girl, once. She felt like she deserved to have her needs deprived in her relationship--though her ultimate goal was to receive emotional intimacy again, once her partner was satisfied she's been punished long enough.
Yet everyone on the outside she was seeking counsel from couldn't fathom why anyone would think that way.
Sometimes, though, they will attract someone to try & play the savior role, upon hearing all this--but they invariably wanna go back to their original abusive partner.
I have experience with BPD sicko... To honest, the only way to be "successful" with these people is to play their own game. You have to be toxic, because chaos and pain is all they know. They self loath... They're not normal, any stability... It's repulsive. You quickly become boring. It's that *constant* rush for the next dopamine hit.
I think you mean '........ NPD sicko..... ' --
I hope you do !
I would never say that about your videos.. everyone has experienced most of it and need it outlined
It confirms they aren’t crazy and is saving lives ❤
Thank you for this! ❤️🙏🏼💜
Thank you so much Professor.
I did develop abuse tolerance, and i changed after that, became unstable
Known many people like the discribed ones. Still my upbringing made it almost impossible to free my self.
Thanks for the lecture and most rewarding smile 😊
Exactly what I needed to hear
Intermittent reinforcement is like a drug… in studies with mice… they go crazy only when they do not know when they will get the pellet.
If they know- they are cool, if they know they will not get it, they are cool… o lot when they do not k ow do they go crazy for the chemicals provided by the prize( attention)
Baby seals?! Hehehehe.....love it!❤
Thank You!
What the heck am I doing here Friday night watching the Sam Vaknin Horror Show?????❤ Thank you Sam, truly❤
It's like going to hell in a Handbasket!
I wanted to watch this to see if you are talking about my adoptive mother, because the title sure does sound just like what she does with me....I will watch and find out.
I went through this towards the end of the relationship. It was horrible. Intermittent reinforcement its horrible. Do they know there doing this on purpose. And yes it nearly killed me.22 years and 6 kids. It was a big insight..... opened my eyes. Thanks from Liverpool England UK
powerful
40 years in country. Almost 2 years into discovery. First 2 years of complete ignorance, the following 36 years knew my marriage was messed up, but even after multiple attempts at therapy (each therapist sided with my husband-it became professional proof that I was the problem). 18 months ago read about Neglectful + narcissism and I finally knew I had the key to my marriage. I’ve been told I was psychotic and dishonest because I made up situations he had no knowledge of. Threatened with commitment into an institution (he had the papers) because he was so afraid for me. He didn’t do it because it was so embarrassing. He did have me evaluated by a psychiatrist at the hospital I had just completed chemotherapy. Of course he made no gesture of love while I was fighting the effects of chemotherapy. I believed I wasn’t worthy of love or human feeling (I still do battle within). I do feel absolutely stupid for not leaving or staying gone early on, but I had small children and he brought in his clinically psychopathic/sociopathic older sister to assist with the kids on his weeks. Now I realize this too was a tactic, he knew she despised me and had gone to great lengths to convince his family that I had been a prostitute before marriage to him, that the children weren’t even his, God knows what else.( I wouldn’t agree to handing over our credit card to her to rent a car…she had a track record of monetary & jewelry theft from every family member, embezzlement from assorted employers, and still he made sure she knew I was the one who said no). I knew without doubt she would damage my children & he would allow it. I came back and never left. I know I’m a better person, I know I deserve happiness, but I also FINALLY realize that my isolation was planned, my ever creeping but now extreme introverted incapacitated feelings were also planned. To my friends who assured me that he loved me so much? I would be daft to leave him (@6 years ago)! I could almost spit in their eyes. But I know the real eye spitting should be reserved to the author of so much pain, doubt, abject misery. He’s so much more diabolical than I ever imagined. I thought his lack of every human feeling toward me (not his buds) was ignorance & selfishness. Who’s the ignorant one?
So sorry you have had to endure this. So glad you have put the pieces of the puzzle together...it's the beginning of healing. Thanks to Professor Vaknin for going deeper into the subtleties and vagaries of narcissist abuse which are not touched upon by others.
Sorry to hear your awful experiences. Knowledge, finally seeing what is going on is painful. Stay strong. Take good care of yourself. Be true to your own values. And as Prof Vaknin pointed out in another video statistically with so many billions of people on the planet it is impossible to deny there are lots of people out there who will value you, love you and treasure your friendship.
Currently in the total experience with a psychopathic narcissist . "Locked in to the position of hurt"
If you are currently in it leave before the damage is too great.
@@desgray5420 when the realization of damage became known as of this time, the effect of it still cannot be noticed until the effort to change or leave becomes suddenly challenging ea; physically/financially/resources, compared to how it was in years past efforts. The toll has set in before I could get a counseling session started. I take that back. I had my very first meeting with a professional today! However, Not a chance could she been familiar with narcissist partner relationships. I didn't ask, I can tell by they way she responded first chance she spoke she just wanted to say we will work on me and let the people I'm speaking about deal with there own separate things separate. It was just me and her on video chat but as I inform her of my general troubles and my circumstances to contribute, That is her best Initial approach for me to focus...right like that is a option
Being with a toxic partner IS a personal problem. The red flags wave from day one but we overlook them due to any number of issues including abandonment wounding. Trust that if we don’t sort out the reason we attract these people, we will attract them again. From experience, the abuse gets worse. Better to be homeless than locked up with one of them. Mean that.
May just be the humble I've established to become, as a homeless in Miami historic Overtown district...aka first 48 filming site. I attract God. I am A child of God, resilient by far. I buckle to the command of the foolish flesh of this man, my spirit and soul thrive with power from within me a higher power ma'am. No judgment zone when no weapons formed against me shall prosper. Not even of the wicked
Professor, why are you helping us?
Shmuel u look good today
My candy for u for the day
That Video make me think if a frined trys that intermittent reinfocrement with me. We know each other our entire life, over 40 years, and this year i realzied that he manipulated me all those years. anyways, i decided to vanish from his life slowly, cutting him off his supply, but now, out of the blue he sends me an expansive gift, in decades he never gifted me something. maybe he flees that he is losing his grip on me. idk. but honestly it terrifies me a little bit.
What is the part called when "the cold phase" is active, an, triangulation also begins simultaneously... eruption happens when narcissist drinks and the hostile behavior then prompts me to go into confrontation mode without actually saying anything in accusations but defense by yelling at narcissist to rationalize the mean words and purpose for saying such to me is crippling. As the show continues into more cold and withdrawing from him.. I am literally heart broken, and yes I almost feel completely physically weak like the stress attacked my muscles...what is this elevated anxiety causing crippling along with the heart ache? If so how long does this last because I feel pretty depressed so if a turn of mood is to cure ...oh man.
Sam, my biggest problem is that HE talks at me saying I am toxic, mentally ill etc.. he says if I would just stop questioning him and giving him peace and a life without drama, everything would be perfect. He sometimes doesn’t speak for days when I said something wrong and doesn’t accept any explanations. I feel intense guilt because I think I am doing everything wrong.. don’t know what to do
When two people come together there has to be room to discuss everything between you two. There are lots of things that are important to you and you want to express and of course be heard and understood. What you get is stonewalling, invalidation, blocking and diminishing for expressing your authentic self and what you believe to be true and worth to discuss. If you talked to a healthy person in the exact same way you would be appreciated for bringing things up, being invested in the relationship and wanting to grow. You would be appreciated for being a deep person, that sees beyond the superficial and wants to explore it. Be really aware that with this partner conversations will be disappointing, invalidating, superficial and frustrating like that for the rest of your life. Thanks for sharing what you had to say and is important to you.
Baby seals?!😄🦭
Not knowing what is happening to you while this is going on feels like a nightmare horror show, then suddenly exquisite bliss. You somehow know you have to get out, but can't because it's so titillating, you know you will survive the disgusting stuff just to get the good stuff, which by the is mind blowingly good. Normal healthy interactions with normal people are excruciatingly boring.
Hee Sam,❤️
Oh, I have been on the receiving end of hot-and-cold and "splitting." Also, in February years ago she told me a classmate threatened to kill her. Then in April of that same year, she said that same classmate was only a nice flirt. Then a month later, she switched between those two conflicting opinions every one or two days. She went back to saying he threatened her, then went back to saying he was only a nice man.
Every time she switched, she sounded as though she didn't remember what she said the previous time, even if that was just the day before. 😔
In other but related matters: Dr
Vaknin, do you think Elon Musk shows narcissistic traits?
Let’s be care ful with respect to cognitive resonance dissonance at these times ..?
Indeterminacy.. yes
Deliverability.. 🤲
Baby seals LOL
Reckon this can also happen when someone u started loving and they are still trauma bonded their ex narcissist? People can be very intermittent and hot and cold if they are still not over their abusive ex but try to enter a rebound with you avoiding full healing from the past? Just a question coz my ex should most traits of bpd but not diagnosed.
Can you tell me the part about twin(?) anxieties of xxxxx and abandonment. I wasn’t able to hear clearly
That's what he does ,promising he would buy us aflat then after months or weeks of waiting searching he states he doesn't want to buy at all.
Thousands of promises or behaviors that never come true
Abusive work cultures and employers do this.
A couple years of going through that.. now I’m addicted but now there is no reward anymore it’s all pain.. why is that?
I guess trauma bond, 10 years here with wife and a 9yo daughter and its basically hell worse every day but I just cant find a way out, its like brain and body its addicted to the abuse circle
Because they are done with you
How does this process work during discard? Maybe continuously abuse with no more rewards? That’s how I experienced it.
That's how I experience it currently. It's all abuse no reward but I continue going Back for more, hoping this time I will get my fix
Does this approach avoidant often happen with Asperger's sir?
No.
@@samvaknin So if it does occur along with Aspergers, would we be looking at co-morbidities then??
Do they make it on purpose? Did they know what they doing? Or this is only result of instability?
Search the channel.
@@samvaknin Mercy please. Do You know how many ten hours I spent listening to Your podcasts? It scares me that at the beginning of my relationship, she told me in the form of a scientific fact that it is possible to influence someone's brain biochemistry. Then I forgot about this. But when I was lying at the bottom and started reading about trauma bond, about what was happening to me right now, and reminding myself how suddenly, out of a loving attitude, she was attacking me, and when I asked why she was doing that, she said she was doing it on purpose and consciously, and then immediately there was love again, as if nothing had happened.
In which movie are You talking about this?
By the way, I'm really grateful of Yours movies. Listen this, give me peace and understanding. You also describe everything to what going through, the transition from regression to infant, the transitional borderline in me, and discover my narcissism.
As well as the fact that during the relationship, I myself noticed and called that she forces me to "outsource" my brain. And I reject her, when my ego stood up for the complete loss of my "I" if I accepted the state of this relationship and how she want to dominate. Then it was still as you say, fast hoovering, two meetings, but also fully aggressive devastation messages and rejection (she had a new phone at the meeting - so I'm only guessing she smashed her old one in a fit of narcissistic rage) - all according to the scenario you describe.
I mostly like Your movie "Narcissist's Real Mother and YOU".
Did I give you enough supply to point me to a video or directly answer a question? 😉
Why baby seals?
Good question what am I doing here! 😂 yes I’m a lost baby seal!
And I’m now traumatised just the right amount. Lol. Amaze vid!
Listening to my videos😂
That's just business demand destruction can happen at anytime
I wonder if it is possible for the victim to turn the tables and give the abuser intermittent reinforcement ?
It is possible but it is a very very messy game….. also, not worth it. If you have a conscience or empathy this tactic will wear you down. You can’t really fight evil with evil, even though I understand wanting to give them their own medicine….. the game would only be prolonged and potentially become more dangerous.
Misogynism is systematic intermittent reinforcement.
😆 baby seals
Academic?
This is what he has been doing to men🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Insightful… thank you from one of the baby seals🦭
Please call me a baby seal again. 🦭 😅