DYNO TEST! 2 Stroke, Smashed Pipe Vs New Pipe! How much of an effect do dents have??
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- čas přidán 16. 02. 2021
- Today the IRC Tire Guy partnering with the MotoStation at the Utah location DYNO testing the 2021 Gas Gas EC300 with a Dented vs a Brand new pipe.
Comment for more Dyno pulls you'd like to see! - Sport
Great work Rich! I paused the video on the graph from the dyno for a closer look at the results. It shows that the dented pipe and the new pipe produce nearly identical power in the low RPM and mid range. The new pipe only really pulls away after mid-range and at the top end. Most of the time people ride in the mid range and lower. This means it won't be nearly as noticeable... most of the time. That confirmed what I've felt on my bikes. You also confirm something that I've always felt about pipes, it's the bends and dents in the gooseneck that really matter.
Mine is right on the fat part and where it connects to the head
I let it scream every time. If you riding on the highway maybe lower RPM but when I'm in the dirt I let her eat!
Well that solves that debate.
You honestly do some of the most interesting and straight to the point videos on CZcams in the hard enduro space 👍👍
Sooo refreshing to see a commentary based on actual data. Sincere thanks
do a before-after rebuild when you go to do a top end.
Great Idea!
this video deserves a milli!! Straight forward no bullshit.
This is great stuff! I just clicked the bell for the first time ever. This content quality is measurable!
Thank you for showing both HP and torque. Love the channel.
Very interesting vid Rich... I wouldn't have thought it was that much of a difference.. Do a full FMF next.
Pretty Crazy! Will do!
I actually thought more constriction might help the low end
I love your content & the direction your channel is going !
Keep it coming brother !
I appreciate that! More to come!
As always your vid gives so much informations. Thanks Rich. Cheers from France
Great video Rich! Based on the condition of that dented pipe I would have guessed a power loss of 2-3% at best. 6.2% is significant. Can't wait for your next video about the new re-flash.
You can also test different exhaust, fmf,pro circuit etc....Different silencers. Can't wait for the next videos 💪💪
Congratulations! Another great video ✊
Oh sweet,,, good stuff as usual Rich!!
Great test! That was awesome to put that issue to rest. Nice work!!
Getting the content out that people want to see 👍 excellent work rich
Appreciate it!
Another kickass video thanks Rich. Looking foreword to the TSP review, Im.running the TSP ECU remap.and their medium comp head and it's amazing.. cheers
Dyno your Gas Gas vs a KTM XC-W, it would be nice to see stats on how the different flywheels they have affect performance. Also, you just wrecked the whole #powerdentpipe theory!
I’ve read that dyno runs are only done at full throttle. I wonder if that makes a difference for the power dent theory? I’ve never heard of dents making more power, only moving the power/torque around in the rpm range and changing the feel. That could still be true.
This is truly Amazing. I never thought it would be this much of a loss. It is difficult to take the dyne offroad so even though it shows less impact down low on the trail it could be monumental. I would love to se the FMF Gnarly as well. Great Vid as always.
Good stuff rich, very helpful! How about clean vs dirty air filter, and properly oiled vs wet and over-oiled air filter!
Great content as usual ! Confort me in my use of pipe guard. On additional dyno testing maybe try to see if different oils yeld different power, or what can be the effect of a dirty air filter.
Love it! Thanks Rich
1:49 Is the best description of using a dynamometer I've ever heard someone put into words.
That first taper has to diverge at a about 7* to create a good impulse that makes the pipe work. The first taper ends near the middle of the pipe and when the exhaust pulse hits the straight largest section it keeps going but also sends back a negative air pressure pulse (suction) that travels back to the exhaust port to help scavenge spent gases. Right after that the positive wave is bouncing back from the pipe's reverse taper to stuff the fresh fuel/air back in the exhaust pipe as the piston comes up. I'm surprised it was only a few ponies, but the crispness will be reduced with dings. Not always a bad thing to use if the motor runs clean and you're riding slick conditions. Great test!
I just bought a new pair of IRC tires for my 1978 XR75 owned since '83.
Another great video! If you ever decide to change your reefs I’d be curious to know if there is a difference between stock reeds and v force or boyesen.
Perfect idea, very interesting topic.
-Would like to see power valve adjustment based on dyno results;
-Dyno results with 1/4 and 1/2 throttle position, not only wide open (ususal). As in hard enduro very really we use wide open throttle.
I recently found the channel, love the great content. I recognize just about every place you ride, I hope to see you out on the trails sometime!
Thanks for watching! I'm definitely out a lot!! Keep an EYE out!
Good stuff man.
Very informative!
Hey mate,
You should do a video on the dino of a spark arrester in and out on a performance pipe
The kink at the neck of the pipe is the worst for top end power, used to use lever mine with 2 hard wood track pegs while it was hot before it happened.
Had to put my sunnies on when you showed that new pipe fitted 😎
Brilliant idea! Real metrics to figure out what's what.
I would also love to see what a flywheel-weight does exactly. Preferably on an older 250 2stroke MX bike :)
Great video. I would have liked to have seen a chart of a pipe with damage on the fat part of the pipe, but not on the header.
Good video and interesting 👍🏻
Eye opener 🤔👍🏻👌🏻✊🏻
Great video. Oil and carbon buildup can reduce power so I would try to run that new pipe for a while (without denting it) and dyno again.
Awesome show idea! Can we compare powervalve springs and perhaps the difference in different pipes. I would love to see how the power curve changes. And,lol you asked, how about the high compression heads? Thanks again for your show!
Great suggestions! We'll make it happen!
Interesting indeed. Can you compare leading brand exhausts?
I would love to see what ignition-advance does to effect performance!
On an older two stroke bike, no tpi. I had to get an aftermarket ignition setup that is really hard to adjust. Fixed stator, and you're meant to set the piston to where you want it to spark, (1,35mm to 2mm BTDC) and then put the flywheel on, (no keyway) lining up the mark on flywheel with the one on the stator. So making small adjustments is a complete nightmare. Wish I had a dyno right now!
Well damn! Time for me to get a new pipe.
Really interesting, so basically, for a pro like you, replacement is an absolute must, for a knob like me, it's not event a factor :) .
Awesome!!
Popped out a deep fist sized dent out and cleaned out all the hard carbon buildup and could tell immediately.. sounded instantly better and ran smoother
How about the difference between the exhaust powervalve springs? Where the "hit" is in the RPM band and the area under the curve for a powervalve opening early vs later in the RPM range.
Thinking about different things to test... of course different head pipes, but also different silencers. What about air filters? How much power does a dirty one rob? Also, since measuring power via the wheel, what about the age old tale of an o-ring chain "robbing" power? So many variables can come into play. Wheel/ tire/sprocket/rotor weight combo vs acceleration. Even different wheel bearings. Standard vs ceramic. The possibilities are near limitless.
I'm not surprised at all. I usually feel like a bike is about to rip my arms off when I replace or repair a badly dented pipe.
I would have actually guessed it would be much more than 6%, but maybe it's because my pipes are usually much more dented :D
I wouldn’t say 6% is huge but it isn’t nothing. I would be more interested to know how it affects power delivery,as in power curves rather than peak numbers. Looking forward to more videos. Thanks
Shame that the bottom of the chart
is missing, but one thing we can see
is that the P and T are flat for most of the
tested rpm range on the old dented pipe,
whereas the new pipe is on a fairly constant
rise throughout the main body of the testing
parameter.
That's why I buy two at a time. Some tuners can blow out the dings with heat and air pressure, but yours might be a challenge to fix.
Great video! Please if possible compare the Gas Gas EC 250 to the EC 300.
Just put a new header pipe on my 300 after 70 hours. Bike feels like new and makes noticeably more power. Only problem is now I’m scared to dent the new pipe!
yeah, im currently doing a complete rebuild of my bike, 3rd gear was popping out. decided to get a new pipe while i was at it. old stock one was dented and cracked pretty bad. this one looks so nice though, i used to happily drop my bike, that has definitely changed. pipes aint cheap.
You can have your expansion chamber repaired for a fraction of the price of a new pipe. Last time I checked, about a year ago it was less than $100. They pressurize it and heat the dents to straighten them out. Never had it done myself but have seen pipes before and after and they look new-ish.
Amazing
Rich, i'd love to see dyno tests comparison between different exhaust valve springs and preload on KTM bikes :-)
Would love to see a curve comparison between FMF & Pro Circuit
The max power isn’t that important tho for hard enduro right? Looks like there is MORE torque and power on the low end before it flattens out. Could the power dents be performance enhancing??
Also on the chart it shows dented pipe only making it too 25 hp? Is this chart correct? Also no rpm listed on the bottom would be nice to have both axes.
Honestly max power isn't really important. I could definitely see how it could smooth out the bottom end a little bit. Possibly helping you hold traction. I just like the way the bike runs with a new pipe. Seems to be cleaner.
@@IRCTireUSAMoto I like the new pipe feeling as well, seems like it runs cleaner for sure
@@GoldenAppleGamers You're looking at torque. I also say the horse power numbers and print them on the screen...
Thank you for the enlightening review. While you've tested a dented pipe most of us anature riders got it dented and cracked 🤣. Can you show the difference for cracked ones?
Hey those guys are dope! They sent me a free set of IRC VE33s tires!
Please could you dyno trial bike, 125, 250 and 300 ? Change in power band with different reeds cage as of vforce, boyesen...
How much volume of air differences between the banged up stock pipe, and the new stock pipe?
Fmf Turbine core 2, fmf power core, and stock silencer
Super good, exhaust is the first, and other so called power add ons. You can flush out the waste of money add ons
My 18' TPI sound rich at about 10% throttle, for example 6th gear cruising speeds? Any idead
This is interesting to see the results ... obviously tonnes of variables but that is certainly noticeable
You can buy blow out kits where you pressurise the pipe (off the bike) and heat it up to pop the dents back out 👍 ... that and a mallet 👍🤣
Dent puller is the next bet.welded rod to pipe and pull out on rod
I've heard about guys partially filling a dented pipe with water and putting it in the freezer.
yeah, it would be interesting to see the hp figures of a stock pipe dented pipe, stock pipe with dents removed and a new pipe. if nothing else you can compare the repaired pipe and new pipe to see if the carbon deposits in the old pipe vs new one make any difference. or if whatever slight dents remain affect performance.
Is there anything worse about bent pipes than vibration?
Interesting numbers. My understanding is that the position of the dent is more important than the size of the dent (up to a point). The first 8-10" or so of the pipe are critical and damage there will hugely affect P/T - whereas a dent in the expansion chamber makes less of a difference. Of course, that's from others' info and not my own dyno numbers - but if you want to Hydraforce that bent pipe back and ding it 6" in, I'll be super interested in if I am expounding utter BS :-D - Great channel!
Might be a great idea to test that! Thats where the dents seem to make the biggest difference in feel. At the cone its not a lot!
Thanks for the support!
Can you test the beta xtrainer 300 2021
Looking forward to the TSP dyno results! Maybe test a FMF TC2 vs TC2.1 since most of us have to run spark arrestors.
Sparky's would be interesting!
+1 for the sparky test runs
The tc2.1 from what I hear is a quieter silencer plus they just look way better than the standard tc2
Hi!!!
Why don't You use, at least the carbon pipe protections?
Would love to see some numbers from your Sherco
Hi Rich , Can you pls check on the dyno 300cc 2T KTM vs Sherko vs Betta vs Riejo vs TM Racing , this will give us a clear picture of the diff between all
Can we do oil test to because some oils claim more hp, amsoil dominator, blendzall ultra,torco oil, blud lubricants, dicks cts2, all of the oils names are compatible for tpi or premix
Can you do a dyno of the lexx
Cant some dents actually increase torque?
The 110/100 - 18 IRC VOLCANDURO rear tire is competing with Dunlop on Cebu island for all the trail riders. Drop the price of this specific bread-and-butter tire and all the trail riders will purchase it. Same for the 21" knobby front tires and 4.10 18" rear tires.
Great video. I've heard the opposite opinion over the years and always wondered. For future content, I'd love to see some carb comparisons. I don't know anyone who's happy with the Mikuni's on the late model KTM/Husky bikes. We swap to Keihin, Lectron, smartcarb, but I wonder how those changes impact the power delivery on a dyno.
yeah, i saw/ read an article once where they tested a dented pipe vs a new pipe, and the dented pipe actually had a fraction more hp. i think it was only a single dent though, not nearly as bad as this one. i think it was the dirtrider magazine, but cant be sure. i want to see more tests. i imagine with some badly dented pipes, or ones with cracks/ leaks the performance loss could be even more than 6%
Do a video comparing 50 to 1 Oil mixture compared to 32 to 1.
did you clean out the pipe?
So buy a four stroke? How much is a new expansion chamber?
Are you pro of pipe covers or not many guys said that you can brake the cylinder. At the exhaust.
This channel is going places!!!
A little off topic, but how do you think the new JX tire would perform in a race such as the extreme enduro race in Page, AZ next month with the rock and sand mixture? Can't decide if I want to give it a shot or stick with the VE 33s.
I'll be running the JX8.
Thanks for the support!
@@IRCTireUSAMoto Lucky for you, I'll be in the 45+ division! LMAO!!!
Hey could you pls do a test with a new / and used air filter.
Thats an awesome idea!
Great content BRADDA . What’s your sprocket setup for wet hard enduro ??? Thanks in advance
Thanks! Id run 13-52 and keep the bike in second. Most dry stuff I run 13-50 and keep the bike in first. Depends on the bike and other factors.
Right on BRADDA 🤙🏾 I appreciate the response n advice 💯
I'm curious about how carbon build-up in the expansion chamber affects the power curve
yeah, thats what i was thinking, like, did they clean the carbon deposits out of that dented pipe first, if not the results could have been effected. since its all about the harmonics/ vibrations. having a think build up on the inside of the pipe affecting its ability to vibrate it definitely sounds like something that could effect performacne. also, a layer covering the entire inside of the pipe would slightly reduce its overall volume, reducing performance. also it would be a rougher surface that might hurt airflow. and most of the carbon deposits might be near the header, seriously restricting thins, sort of like a closed powervalve/ exhaust valve. i dont know.
Hey Rich, knowing how the sides of pipes get dented, what do you use for knee protection?
Mobius is what I use
Top vídeo, in dyno everyone see the diferences, a 11 oz flywheel make a diference in power or torque?? Teste! 👍
Thanks for the idea!
since Gas Gas has 115g more than ktm, I would like to see gas gas with a few more grams! up to 200g more, and see the difference in the dyno!
Ok, i found a guy that was selling his bike. i think it was a 2017ish Sherco 250. But he was riding/selling it with a 125cc pipe on it. I just had to talk to the guy, and he claimed that the pipe gave the bike just about the same amount of power. Only moving the power more from the top and to the bottom of the power curb. It could havve been a Gas Gas or a Beta. But i think it was a sherco. Would love to see some dyno tests with a 125cc pipe on a 250 bike. The guy selling the bike invited e to come and try the bike out and see for my self that the bike did not loose any power because of the exhaust.... Sadly the guy was on the other side of the country so i had no chance of trying it out. But it has been stuck in my mind ever since i did see thaty sales ad.
look like the dented pipe have a much higer torque and power at very low RPM like what you need at low speed in hard enduro a bit like the torque you have on a trial motorcycle. You need very open terrain to use the high RPM power who make most of the difference. I will stay with the bends for the type ride I do.
I already knew the answer to this Question. Because I have smashed a few pipes over the years.
Have any of you had luck with those little pipe guards that you bend to fit and attach with thin metal straps?
Buy a carbon fiber one! It's a bit expensier then the metal ones, but work way better 👍
@@Eloi229 thanks I've been curious about them too.
What about different silencers?
good idea!
It's too bad that Dyno runs don't really reflect what's important in hard Enduro, namely torque below 5k RPM (before the PV opens), and ultimately throttle response in that area. I get that resolution is a factor in the former, and the latter would require a more complicated TPS velocity variable added into the mix, with the output measuring both torque and latency over a limited RPM range.
I vote comparison of aftermarket ECUs - GET, VORTEX etc
We have one coming next week!
Was it 37.38 or 37.83? Were those final percentages averaged? With 37.38 I get more like a 10% increase in power. 9% otherwise. I don’t mean to be nitpicky because I’m genuinely curious! Really cool stuff!
The increase is from 37.83 to 40.18. I'm not sure how I messed up both numbers. Guess I have too many jobs! Ride, Write, Film, Edit. I need an assistant! My percentage increase was still basically right haha. It's a 6.2 percent increase. Unless I screwed that math up too!
@@IRCTireUSAMoto agreed then. Too bad, I got excited!
Always in percentages.
I would like to see the dyno difference between a lectron 38mm carb vs the stock carb
This is a tpi bike if I’m not mistaken
@@tc1254 that’s true but I think Rich did a video with a 300 carb vs 300 tpi
How long before IRC is making pipes... LOL