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I wanted another token copier, and being a new toy it works nicely since we have lots of lifelink in the deck, although it doesn't auto equip them for us. The bonus is that if you can get another token copier online with it, it'll double up each of the copied equipment. I didn't include a game in the video (because it was a long slog) where I had Danitha suited up with a bunch of stuff, with Anointed Procession and the Ocelot. So I was getting cloned tokens Sigil of Valor and Sword of Forge and Frontier directly on her, then at end of turn, I'd get copies of each created by the Ocelot, which I'd equip the next turn and it would make even more on the next swing. In the end, I was at 154 life, Danitha was a 65/65 with First Strike, Vigilance, Lifelink, and Indestructible, and they scooped because the game wasn't going to end in their favor with her ever growing.

It helps loving both games. I wanted to give a brief lore because so many players were either dismissive or had no idea what to make of the cards.

That's a good one.

Thank you very much.

It can be. But Nim Deathmantle is more for the pump and reanimation. The intimidate is a bonus for when you can use it. My group has a G/W counters deck so it works well against them. Build to how your group is comprised. So many choices, and if no one in your group is vulnerable to it, then swap the mantle for something else.

@twilightscallmtg thats fair for the recursion and pump Intimidate is best on mono colored things but it's niche otherwise

Glad you liked it. I decided to do a little character background since I saw a lot of players saying stuff like, "I don't even know who these characters are." or "All I know about this game is you run around in a hood." I love the games for their attempts to blend historic events and characters into the story narrative, and I want people to be interested in trying the card versions of the characters out.

Not sure either. I just spent 20 minutes thinking about how it could work and I'm not seeing it because you're only getting the 1 cast trigger. You aren't casting the copies because the way both cards are worded, and that was deliberate. Otherwise one spell could infinitely re-trigger either Echoes or Ulalek. At most, if you copied the Echoes with Ulalek first, I think you only get up to 8 total (1 for the original cast, 3 from Ulalek triggering and paying 6 into it (per rulings that say 2 echoes causes 3 triggers from other colorless permanents), and 4 from Echoes seeing each other and making them each trigger the spell copy line twice. It's a lot of tokens but not infinite.

@@twilightscallmtg Yea its very confusing I asked some judges and they said that that specific combo does not end on an infinite in itself. But if you already had infinite mana, you apparently can Keep infinitely copying the stack

@@twilightscallmtg Still trying to understand it myself im pretty new to the game, this is very confusing, I tried to play out an opening hand scenario and let a judge check if my stack looked correct and he said it looks right. This is only with 7 colorless mana starting the stack, so with a lot more or infinite even it gets so wild. This is what I wrote: Colorless mana left after initial eldrazi creature cast 7, and then increments of paying ulalek trigger cost 5>3>1 On field: ulalek, reflections of littjara and 3 echoes of eternity eldrazi creature spell littjara trigger to copy creature spell ulalek trigger (pay 2 colorless) echoes #1 copy ulalek echoes #1 copy creature spell echoes #2 copy ulalek echoes #2 copy creature spell echoes #3 copy ulalek echoes #3 copy creature spell Resolve echoes 3 copy creature spell Resolve echoes 3 copy ulalek (paying 2 colorless) stack update: eldrazi creature spell littjara trigger to copy creature spell ulalek trigger echoes #1 copy ulalek echoes #1 copy creature spell echoes #2 copy ulalek echoes #2 copy creature spell coppied eldrazi creature spell coppied littjara trigger to copy creature spell coppied ulalek trigger coppied echoes #1 copy ulalek coppied echoes #1 copy creature spell coppied echoes #2 copy ulalek coppied echoes #2 copy creature spell Resolve coppied echoes #2 copy creature spell Resolve coppied echoes #2 copy ulalek (paying 2 colorless) stack update: eldrazi creature spell littjara trigger to copy creature spell ulalek trigger echoes #1 copy ulalek echoes #1 copy creature spell echoes #2 copy ulalek echoes #2 copy creature spell coppied eldrazi creature spell coppied littjara trigger to copy creature spell coppied ulalek trigger coppied echoes #1 copy ulalek coppied echoes #1 copy creature spell another copied eldrazi creature spell another copied littjara trigger to copy creature spell another copied ulalek trigger another copied echoes #1 copy ulalek another copied echoes #1 copy creature spell another copied echoes #2 copy ulalek another copied echoes #2 copy creature spell another copied coppied eldrazi creature spell another copied coppied littjara trigger to copy creature spell another copied coppied ulalek trigger another copied coppied echoes #1 copy ulalek another copied coppied echoes #1 copy creature spell then resolve entire stack? Since no mana left other ulaleks in the stack dont copy anymore, loop is broken.

The issue is you aren't casting the copies. They are simply created. Once the original set of triggers resolves, there's no more ways to copy. You can't keep paying into Ulalek at will to keep copying. It triggers one cast, even with Echoes doing copying stuff. So once you resolve Littjara, multiple copies of Echoes, and copied triggers off Ulalek, you would need the mana to restart copy stack with a brand new cast spell and reactivate Ulalek for that cast. So with your initial scenario, you will have the original creature, 5 Ulalek copy opportunities (original + Echoes trigger copying), and 9 Echoes copies (each one sees the other 2 and triggers 3x), and the Littjara trigger, so 16 creatures created then it should stop and need a new cast to restart and copy a different creature 16x (if you have the mana). I hope I have that right. Copy effects are crazy difficult when they start multiplying.

@@twilightscallmtg haha yea indeed, but a copy of ulaleks trigger with echoes does initiate another stack copy once that choes copy of ulalek resolved, granted you do still have to pay colorless. Im not 100% skilled in this but I asked in a judge discord, perhaps you can discuss the correct ruling with them, perhaps they are wrong?

The backside of flip cards counts for color identity in Commander. So all the MH3 "flipwalkers" are one color on the creature side but technically are 2 colors because of the Planeswalker side of the card, Ajani being red and white.

It's fine. I'm pretty laid back on comments unless it's something that's offensive.

Been a while since I visited this one. We've seen several printings (and reprints of some insanely expensive cards) since I did this video. In no particular order, these are the demons (and one devil) printed (or reprinted) since Dominaria United that I would look into adding some where: Archfiend of Despair (NOW AFFORDABLE!), Bloodletter of Aclazotz, Rakdos, Patron of Chaos, Rakdos, the Muscle, The Balrog, Durin's Bane, and Pyretic Prankster. I'd also look into some newer support spells, such as Rakdos Joins Up, Pyretic Rebirth, Calamity, Galloping Inferno (Copying Archfiend of Despair or Bloodletter sounds like a recipe for some crazy plays), Lavaspur Boots, Connecting the Dots, Judith, Carnage Connoisseur, Bitter Triumph, Lich-Knight's Conquest, Virtue of Persistence, Call of the RIng, Spiteful Banditry, and Mithril Coat. Not all of this will fit, but it's all the stuff since I did the video that I would consider good additions somewhere depending on what your budget is and what you want to do with the deck.

I've not done a revisitation to old precon upgrade videos before, but I'll give you my list of cards from the new precon and MH3 mainset I would consider here and a few sure-fire cards I would use as well. From the precon, I'd consider Twins of Discord, Eldrazi Confluence, and Ulamog's Dreadsire. Couple more big Eldrazi for Zhulodok to double Cascade with and the Confluence can be use to handle indestructible creatures as well as simply ramping up to the bigger Eldrazi ahead of schedule. From the mainset, I'd consider Devourer of Destiny, Ugin's Labyrinth, Kozilek, the Broken Reality, and Ulamog, the Defiler. I think the only thing that would keep me off most of these cards, is current pricing for Ulamog and the Labyrinth currently being $100 combined. For sure, from both the precon or mainset, I'd use Eldritch Immunity, Selective Obliteration, It That Heralds the End, Idol of False Gods, and Echoes of Eternity. Immunity is the cheapest way to protect the creatures in a colorless deck, Selective Obliteration is a really good wipe, Herald and Idol are great ramp in a deck like this, and Echoes copies any cast triggers off the Eldrazi and even causes Zhulodok's Cascade trigger to copy.

Glad you liked them.

You're correct. I didn't remember it was a top of deck tutor effect when I was rounding up cards. It's still worth running to get your Eldrazi of choice that fits the game, but not worth copying. Thanks for pointing out my goof. Pinning this so it's pointed out.

Good idea there.

It can, but you have to wait on the cards and a wipe means you get 1 card and nothing more. It's why I prefer Reclaimation. Just personal preference.

to add, you went for token copying effects and a bit of additional proliferate, but did you think of Copying the triggers instead, to make the deck less reliant but still grateful for satya? I speak of Panharmonicon and Virtue of Knowledge. both will copy effects like Guide of Souls, Ghonti's Aetherheart, etc, alongside any ETB triggers the creatures would have on their own. Guide of souls being able to make creatures into Angels can also call for putting in a Roaming Throne, naming angel, though you can name human to a decent effect too. to copy triggers. I personally threw in Lithoform Engine and Strionic Resonator for the trigger ability copy for 2 mana, given that i ran with an ETB trigger heavy deck styling.

Boots are a good suggestion. I mostly like Key as it does allow for draw filtering but Boots are totally valid (barring lots of mono colored decks in your pods). I do try to avoid infinite comboing, but I didn't think much about it with the Virtuoso as I was researching. It can be useful, but I just haven't gotten a lot of mileage out of it when I've messed with it in the past (I've tried using it in the Fallout precon before, which is where the idea of it being wasteful to spend energy on it comes from). I'm possibly jaded. Now maybe this has enough toys with the Guide and other new stuff in the main set to push it to be great, but past results weren't great for me. If it works for you, great to know that it may now be a consideration to leave in the deck.

Panharmonicon was left on the cutting room floor. I literally had it laying on my desk as I was trying to come up with a slot for it and I decided to cut it as it gets overused in a lot of lists. Resonator and Engine are good alternatives that don't see nearly as much play.

@@twilightscallmtg oh, yah with the fallout precon I 100% agree that whirler would not be worth the energy when that deck had a lot of energy payouts and not nearly enough generators. with my playtesting of Creative energy, energy generation is obscenely high where making 3 thopters to block is nothing, since with Satya you can have 2 - 3 Rocs or Guides on the board fairly quickly. which also help greatly offset the cost. its actually one of 2 infinite combos that come in the precon (whirler + decoction module + Gontis = infinite for turn 4 win / lightning runner with enough generation to get infinite combats)

@@twilightscallmtg didnt help that madison Li does not trigger on ETB but on cast, making her generation not count towards the thopter either

I get the logic but I don't like that it essentially forces you to pay 3 energy or give them back a token as the copies die, which then gives them blockers for Satya later. A little counterproductive. As for All Will Be One, it would be a good include since I don't see a way to do infinite silly with it in this deck and it could compliment Aether Revolt pretty well.

Combat celebrant CAN send it infinite or any other "take another combat phase" card

You could do that. I try not to do that and curb my spikier impulses when building because it's no fun to build up to something for someone to suddenly pop off infinitely on turns 4-5 and end the game before you've actually had a chance to play anything of consequence. But those choices are up to the player, their preferences, and whatever power level they are aiming for.

Absolutely. Play whatever fits your table. I have just been doing a lot of theory crafting around this deck the last few days to find the sweet spot.

Thanks for the kind words.

Altar could be fun. If a Goyf is going to die anyhow, sac it, mill and get more on the board. Nice suggestion.

A surprise Maze's End win is appealing.

Thank you. Glad you liked it.

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up. Archidekt can time out from time to time and not save changes so it might have happened there.

I had to limit myself on what creature type synergies I wanted to mess with, so I went with the Shifting Sliver simply for the blocking and not the other abilities that could have been used as well. I think I need to get more hexproof or just shroud for Omo to keep her safe. She seems harmless and then she not and becomes a target.

Considering you're running domain, scion of Draco would be a neat card. Gives hexproof to blue dudes and trample to green dudes. Also works if you doppelgang your opponents creatures as well

Just finding this comment (Thanks YT!). That's a good suggestion, and I had it in a preliminary list (along side of the original Draco) and I was having trouble coming up with cuts I wanted to make, so I cut them in favor of what did make the list.

I like to try and explain my thought process behind the choices. Magic is a complicated enough game without just tossing out card names and being like, "Good luck figuring it out!"

Yup. Someone else mentioned it. I forgot about the card as I haven't used it in a few years where I had a copy Awakening close at hand and thought it would be an include that you don't see often. I'd likely go with Existence over it simply for the better synergy. But great recommendation none the less.

He does, but that part of him is negated if a Goyf gets milled with Disa out. It's a little disharmony for the deck but still a good card.

I'm honestly not sure if that's how the counters work. You could be right, but then the land strategy would be stopped as well. If they rule that the counters are what grants the typing however, it won't matter. I just can't find any kind of official ruling on how they work atm, just reddit conjecture.

@@twilightscallmtg The text on Omo states that the counters give those abilities. Without her on the battlefield they still have the everything counters but they don't mean anything as it's her text box that defines what they do and would only be in effect when she's in play. Think of it like Kodama of the west tree, he says that modified creatures you control have trample. If he's not on the battlefield the creatures can still have counters of any type but they won't have trample because his effect isn't present on the battlefield. He gives the trample because of those counters or modifications, the same as Omo is giving the lands all land types and the creatures all creature types. So yeah if your group plays a lot of targeted removal it can end up being pretty dead which is why I think I'm going to have to run more protection in my build. Even something like Saryth which will give Omo hexproof but can also be used to Untap a land which can work well with cloud posts etc

Yeah. It could be Saryth and Acetisicm are needed if so. Kind of weird design space to shut down a large swath of the deck like that.

@@twilightscallmtg Yeah, I think it's more the hope that the counters don't really seem like a threat compared to other stuff that's on the board until you slam a vesuva on a cloud post and tap for 16 all of a sudden

@@twilightscallmtg Sadly that is the case if you check mtg gatherer. Still, the deck floods itself with mana super fast, so recasting her several times, even 2x in the same turn, shouldn't be a problem. And hey, more cast triggers which are far safer than attacking to trigger

I had considered it, but for the fact that they don't grow size made me not use them. Atm, the only one I'm still on the fence about is the 1/1 unblockable and only as a way to ensure a token creation.

I'm not one for giving my opponents copies of things. I also don't like relying on what they have in their deck, to make this card worth running if I don't want to be copying things I'm casting. If I'm in a Chaos deck, sure, I'll go for it and watch the world burn with the consequences of whatever I give them. For this deck? It's not a spell I want when it doesn't really serve the rest of the deck and what it wants to be doing.

Great suggestions all around. I forgot about Tortured Existence. Very good here.

Glad you liked them. It's dicey chopping new cards but some of these just don't work for where I wanted to go with the deck.

Glad you liked it. And yeah, it feels like for this deck and another one I'm working up, the secondary Commanders don't play into the theme of the front face. But then it does allow you to diverge two distinct builds if you want. And I'm happy to hear the audio is doing better. I think I finally have the post settings figured out, mostly.

Great call on Bidding. If your playgroup is more creature type focused, you could try Command the Dreadhorde as well since most of the Goyfs are relatively low mana value. I'd also run Wheel of Fortune in my build since I own a copy, which could get you several at once. I just don't recommend it in my videos since it's so pricey. But if your group doesn't mind proxies, that's a good one to do.

And the cascade spells are from Boomer Jund Modern lol! All references. Anyways, they're not good if I can accidentally hit brawn or anger accidentally.

The ability putting them into play off the deck or from your hand when discarded does dodge counters, but you still have to cast some creatures, and I have a special bit of disdain for a couple mono-blue players at my LGS that think it's fun to run a deck with like 30 counterspells and Baral as the Commander, so this is my protest piece for them.

Glad you like the videos and thanks for the encouragement.

You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it and welcome aboard!

Some of those would be good. But the thing with the LotR decks I did was to keep them on theme and I tried to not use cards that referred specifically to locations on other Magic planes, like Castle Vantress. But yes, without that restriction I self-imposed, those would all be great includes.

@@twilightscallmtg I think at least the path would be on Theme. The Mines of Moria could be Seen as a path made by the Ancestors of Gimli.

Oh yeah. We're likely going to see some format breaking stuff, especially the "reserved list" reimagined stuff that uses energy. I could see something there getting banned in Historic.

You're right. I thought they were legal and they aren't. And that fact, makes this even worse. So instead of paying 8k gems or 40k gold for 2 formats, you're don't it for one format that's already expensive AF. Couple that most people are already wanting to use their resources on the MH3 packs coming to the client, and that makes this extra gouging. I'm going to pin your comment since I goofed about Historic. Been a couple years since I played the format and thought they were legal.

Yeah. It's a nuts when you consider you can't resell them later if you decide you don't need all of them. And you have to buy more gems than you'd need for this as well because they don't sell 8k gem packs. Bad feels all around.

Nice. Didn't think about the original Urabrask with the Bobblehead. Good suggestions to go with some these.

It's a risk, but it also robs them of access to the cards as well. Think of it like a mill effect, but no chance for them to get the cards out of the grave. Those spells are out of play for them even if they blow up the Class or Tasha, and if we get to use them, all the better.

Hope the video helps with ideas. What's great is that we now have even more adventure cards available since I made this video that Wilds of Eldraine gave us, so there's even more options to try out with Lozhan.

Glad you liked it.

@@twilightscallmtg so far it's one of the only videos I've seen on this commander

It was one of those legends that spoke to me. Often, the legends inside a precon are more interesting than the face Commanders and those are the ones I like to try and build around. It didn't hurt that Autumn is in one of my favorite color pairs as well.

Apologies, but not catching what you're trying to say here.

@@twilightscallmtg if you read the card it says “if they Draw more than one card on their DRAW STEP” meaning you can’t just make people draw card and get snakes unless it on their main phase draw step

That's why I was confused. It's all draws EXCEPT the first card of their draw steps. Otherwise the draw trigger on hitting them with Xyris would be useless. The idea is to force them to draw with it and get snakes if you don't have any other way to make them draw additional cards.

One of the things I love about Commander is that there isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to build a deck unless you're angling into cEDH. Outside of that, you can get a creative as you want, flavorful as you want, or just straight wacky as you want.

Glad you liked it. I wanted to actually show why I thought it was silly to do what they did and be constructive with the griping about it.