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@@Thomas1980 thanks man. Will make pt 2 soon

@@MPDTransport thank you brother. I need to get on these again soon

Try your best !

Thanks alot! It is cool isnt it!

Ah you just seen yh? And they were indeed, i remember i was so happy to catch the motors like this.

If they were as loud as a flirt it would sound twice as better than a flirt

Here listen to this! czcams.com/video/P0t-HCST204/video.htmlsi=rD65v_coKia0rtcn

Bro i see you vanished on the "gram" Hope everything is lright.

It does doesent it , and i dont even think this is the fastest 4 car ive been on before, the /6s still seem to have the edge as i suspected though. My theory behind /7s and 6s being a bit better, better traction control system meaning better allocation of power at the wheels, and also likely better efficiency. I still havenr caught a 377/ 6 or 7 doing notch 4 yet out of norwood.

It was literally 23 seconds between 60mph and 70mph. Not bad.

Ive got a more recent and MUCH better 1995 stock video if you wanna see it? I dropped the link below for you ;^) Also 1995 stocks arent talked about as much likely due to the fact that they don't have an interesting inverter sound and are probably seen as spare jubilee line trains. But the motor/gear drive sounds are where its at!!!!! Also remember the 1996 stock uses GEC Alstom traction the exact same as the 1995 stocks the only difference is the Alstom onyx inverters. Additionally the gearbox is the exact same more or less as a 96 stock. But Here my newer 1995 stock video!! czcams.com/video/-Mlss27dgMo/video.htmlsi=X_kBShBIk2cMLwPS

Nice!! And thanks for subscribing, I also agree, the SWR livery is cool on these units. Im going to try and find some class 458/4s again and film in future. Also feel free check out my channel for more performance vids of UK trains ;^)

@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 okay will do I wish scotrail had 458 trains and more different trains up here

@@ghighlandchieftain4462 indeed, 334s sound amazing too with their traction equipment. Also I recently uploaded an Electrostar video today.

@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 yeah, I totally agree 334 do have amazing moter sound

@@ghighlandchieftain4462 yeah man glad you agree!

Its temporary, theyll join Portsmouth once the 701s join also i do think the 458s probably will pick up speed. Its just a weird thing they accelerate really slow off the mark. Idk if the driver was holding back though

They were probably holding back. as part of the conversion, they are re-geared, and had yaw dampers fitted that were removed in the 458/0 100mph -> 458/5 70mph conversion. All these stuff probably need a bit of time to bed in, so they are taking it easy on the early notches, to acoid too much stress ont he parts?

@@JanoJ(apologies for the long reply , but i was intrigued by what you said) lets hope so, i was speculating that too. Its entirely possible theyve been power restricted temporarily, or drivers holding back. They are still just being re done and so you may be right. With regards to gear ratio, the way the gear box/motor sounds, its likely geared up to 85mph as opposed to 75mph (as stated on wiki that they are 75mph) but cant achieve 85mph due to limited power on the /5s and no lateral dampers (which may lead to catastrophic outcomes if they ever did try to hit 85mph due to stability physics) the way they sound now, the traction is so deep sounding it may actually be geared to 110mph but rated at 100mph, this explains the weak starting acceleration combined with the lack of power it takes up. Apparently their traction system is one used for a tram and is limited via that also. Doesent mean it probably cant be altered to take up more power at mid to higher speeds. Class 458s are supposed to have a total output of 1620kw as the motors are at least rated at 270kw. But on DC power should at least be nearer 1200kw output for any decent acceleration. This is due to them being similar in weight to electrostars and electrostars use something like 1200kw to 1300kw on DC per 4 car set. I speculate if class 458s could output at 60kw to 80kw more power per 4 car unit, theyd have decent continuous acceleration. Maybe 70 seconds to 60mph, thats a good metric imo. At the moment they seem to take like 80 to 90 seconds to 60mph. Im guessing anyways. Only time will tell to be fair. Theres no way SWR are comfortable operating with such appauling acceleration. They could have had it geared to lower gear ratio threshold nearer 90 or 95mph and push them 5 to 10 extra mph to hit 100mph. This means less power for starting acceleration as the gear ratio is in a lower speed range but has enough reach to hit 100mph still.

The thing is, they did regear it. As The motor/gear sound takes longer to hit a given speed vs the /5s. They sound like they are geared more towards 110mph or 115mph. The problem here...is that SWR seem to have forgotten to RE POWER THEM for DUTY!! and its not like they cant give them more juice, because of course they can. Electrostars are a PERFECT example of a train that is basically the same weight and configuration as a juniper (4 cars , 80 to 82 metres long, weighing 160+ tons) aint no excuse for them to be this slow. Seriously. If power was an issue, they could have geared them to 90mph and have them push a further 10mph to hit 100mph this means theyd have a lower gear ratio that can still hit speed a bit faster. But man its disappointing so far, ill get more footage soon and see if it isnt any better. its like SWR took the train and hacked the software specs to deliberately reduce the power?!?! Theres no way this train was that slow when they first ordered them in the late 90s. Its practically impractical (lol) for anything. Its like taking a class 387 and only accelerating in notch 2, as opposed to notch 4 power. Thats how it performed. Perhaps the driver wasnt going all that hard. I dont know tbh.

Yh , they are smooth, the seats look even better, the suspension is even better now that the dampers have beem re attatched. Only issue THE ACCELERATION SUCKS 😭🤦‍♂️😭 and no i don't care that they are express units now, at least give them the same acceleration as 377/6s in 10 car formation...idek how long they'll take now to hit 60mph..maybe 90 seconds. 444s for example only accelerate skow because they are too heavy, class 458s are not. I think i know the issue. They were ordered way back when the DC supply was really bad in the early 2000s, so im not suprised that they are software capped to hit speed so poorly. But again SWR can easily have them modified. Time will tell again, maybe theyll be improved or maybe the driver was holding back

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 The driver was probs holding back as the 458/4s are said to have improved acceleration VS 458/5

@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf thats what i was assuming

@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf yeah man, id hope so tbh

@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf incoming 377 4 car accel vid solomon stay tunes !! ;^)

They didn't really mean it. Lol it was likely until the 701s entered but 701s arent available yet. So we have these. Then these will get moved to mainline after 701s enter service.

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Oh Ok that makes sense. What about the remaining class 458/5s will they be staying till the class 701 is in service?

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I thought some 701s were already in service and are the amount of 455s not enough?

@@TrainLifeGB they are going to get taken out of service and refirbished over time

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Oh Ok makes sense tbh the /4 carriages look so similar to the 460 carriages. You’d never think they were removed.

Likely software limited

Tracks for sure id assume.

Pretty springy units much smoother than 96 stocks, Despite them being my favourite stock.

Thanks !

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 np!

I wish i could translate this, my apologies

@gapthemind It says nice interior the view from the train window is also nice and he says he subscribed to your channel

@@TrainLifeGB ah i see. Thanks to that guy, it was a prefferable choice of seating

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 👍

Class 707a have both. The 1+2 seating is likely to accommodate for bikes or space etc. They are only in the driving coaches as far as im aware. Really its to make it easier to walk through. Technically the 707s are one of the best, really well designed trains within the last decade. The only problem is a lack of toilets. Thats the only problem. They can likely get a tender sent out to get a company to fit a toilet on them. But i dont know if southeastern will opt for that any time soon. The 707s already have the plumbing systems installed incase as ive heard. So far 700s are the only desiro city with toilets .

Today, i went on a 700, not filmed, but the starting acceleration was crazy. That driver did not hold back.. im starting to realise that 700 drives are probably taught to hold back all the time. Making us assume they cant get up to speed all that fast. Nah mate, the driver proved me wrong , the starting acceleration seemed better than a 707, but 707s seem to have much better mid to high speed acceleration than 700s.

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Idk tbh I can never get a signal inside Desiro Cities

@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf nah it just feels powerful, more than ever, and i agree to that, if you sit near the front cab it doesent work properly.

They would if SWRs network wasn’t so packed and desperately needed so many trains but I honestly think the last 2 707s should stay with SWR

I realised that after😂😂😂 but i wasnt about to delete and reupload it . I just though "they can pause it this one time".

They only go 100mph towards kings lynn. They are banned from doing 110mph on the ecml. This is apparently because of their pantograph doing something weird to the wires. But on WCML they can go 110mph no problem Class 387, 111mph czcams.com/video/wosuDrtQ_VY/video.htmlsi=CwOC7Kk3JnHqmXjF

They have the same max speed. And these are faster unfortunately. They have much better acceleration..however thr 1995 stock is much faster than both of these trains

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 1995 stock has an advantage it has 4 carriages motored out of 6. 1996 stock has 4 out of 7 motored. Although despite this the performance isn't too far behind the 95 stocks

@@tomjardine100 id beg to disagree with the 95 vs 96 stock. Its true that The 95 stocks motors enable it to accelerate much better than the 96 stock due having 8 motored bogies with 6 carriages compared to 8 motored bogies with 7 carriages. However theres a decent margin for acceleration. Removing 20 tons of carriage will enable this. 95 stocks actually beats the S stock to 50mph despite the S stock having all wheels motored and better starting acceleration. The 8 motor bogies of the 95 stock enables much better continuous speed than practically all tubes except the 09 stock , which i have no idea how fast it is. 96 stock has good continuous acceleration for what it has. But the advantage of 95 stock is substantial overall. One thing ive noticed is that the 95 stock having less carriage to motor ratio means that is can have better protection against wear and tare as the motors have power distributed across 8 motors with 6 carriages instead of bearing excess weight and power. Its likely why 96 stocks tend to have weird motor anomalies from time to time. I could be wrong about the wear and tear theory but yeah.

Their not as bad as class 700s tbh. But still a pain long term. Ive gotten used to it tbh

It sounds incredibly smooth too!! I wish other electrostars used them. As i speculate that the motor/gearbox sounds hint at it being much higher than 75mph Usually if the motor sounds deep as well as the other sounds at lets say near 40mph, its likely that the train is geared towards 90mph or 100mph. As the deeper sounds reflect slow motor rotation despite the train being nearer 40mph.

I think it may be the fastest in london. 12-13 seconds between 40mph? nd 50mph? Not sure what other train beats it other than a 777. 701s do match it to a degree but idk if it would match 378s at notch 4 straight off the mark. 378s have something unique, 12 motors which enable a shit ton of motor torque/velocity until nearer 20mph. You know what i could be wrong, but i do think these plus 701s and 465/9s+710s DC are fastest dowm south for sure. Class 376 not falling short of these. I have more 376 footage brewing tbh. Im trying to capture them hitting 70mph frequently to get a good reading .

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Loads of motors yes, but heavy. A 5 car 378 is 202t, while a 5 car 701 is 173t. That's a huge difference of around 29t. I'd say that equals both of them out. Remember that also the acceleration on the latter isn't fully unlocked/realised due to current TCMS instability (according to a driver I know) which is something that will gradually improve over the next year

​@@OneTrackMinded yeah i know more motors =more torque /starting acceleration. This doesent mean that the full power is enabled. Its still limited on all third rail trains really. Also they do balance out but the 701 uses less power , but BECAUSE its lighter. The class 378 still uses MORE capped continuous power, but the power is just spread to all motors. So all motors use less power which gives better protection for wear and tare with more torque. Also the class 378 is given power relitive to its weight. So if you gave a class 701 the same power as a class 378 on DC (likely 1400kw-1500kw), the 5 car class 701 would likely be as fast as an AC powered train. The difference in weight is astounding tbf. 206-212tons vs 17X tons *estimated weight* of a 5 car 701. The acceleration from 40 to 50mph of a 378 still seems to get a slight edge on the 701s though. And this is likely due to claas 378s having a taller gear ratio with a motor geared at a slightly lower speed than 701s. (378s likely being geared for 95max or 100mph max vs 701s likely being 110mph in its entirety due to how low pitch the synchronous mode sounds are, meaning the motor is likely rotating comparatively slower to the wheels to help take the train to higher speeds , despite a smaller or shorter gear ratio set up) Lastly, TCMS is a bit out of my range. Do explain to me what it is? I assume ,traction control management system? If so, then lets hope that changes a bit. I think bombadier should have opted for more classic higher end gear ratios with their motors, or a mixed set where you have lower /mid range gear ratios mixed with higher end range gear drives. This means the motor can be geared down and still achieve higher speeds smoothly aa the gears are larger, or two, you could still gear them to higher speeds than 100mph , but all phases of speed"low speed, mid speed, high speed " will still be easier to likely transition towards for the motor. It also means the motors would probably sound better tbh as a bi product. But this is speculation on my part.

​@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 TCMS is the train control management system. It controls basically every element of the train, these are modern units. Think of it like fly by wire on Airbus planes. Power control is what we're looking at here. The computer can decide how the train regulates or how it distributes power to the motors, and its power draw. A more stable version of this software is able to do this more effectively and therefore provide a. Better overall acceleration and b. More consistent acceleration. So, in a few software revisions (versions) time, it may be quite different. I'd say give it about a year, maybe wait for the new announcements to as I hear that will be part of a big overall patch. We're on version 2.0.17 right now

@@OneTrackMinded wow man, on one level i speculated there was a power control software in the train , and that updating it would make it better to control power. But i wasnt aware that it could improve it to a point where its so specific that itll allow more power at the wheels without overwhelming the supply of DC. I Guess older models of TCMS arent as good at getting power directed efficiently to the wheels? And so the pewer has to be capped to reduce wastage? This sort of also confirms what ive also thought which is, the more efficient and less power consumed by other electronic parts of the train , i.e lighting, auxiliary parts, AC, toilet tech etc, the more power can be directed to the motor as well as traction systems being better at directing power also. Trains like the Desiro HC in germant are stupidly fast due to massive amounts of power directed to the motor. But this can only be done sustainably if the traction control it uses is good at being good at directing that power efficiently to the motors, and not being wasteful with all that energy. That includes all other parts as well as TCMS. Perhaps this is why 701s even now, still accelerate better than class 700s. Class 707s seem to balance out with them but only around 40mph to 50mph, but for all we know class 707s may still have worse TCMS. Than a 701, so who knows. Also bear in mind, class 700s are slower than 707s on DC. Its strange.

(My personal account ^^)

Wow, aye man thanks for the insight. I was actually going to do a south bound journey soon. And thanks alot for the explanation. Its nice an actual driver is informing me of this!! I want to drive trains at some point myself, and thats funny , if i was a driver id aim to always gun it to line speed if theres enough distance and nothings in front of me haha. Also id probably blitz it after 4 mph , notch 3 then boom!! notch 4 if i could get away with it 🤣🤣 ive been on one that hit 60mph between norwood jnc and anerley before. I didnt get film though. Also ive theorised alot as to why southern 377s are slower upon starting. The funny thing is 4 car 377s are rapid by comparison to the 8 cars. But the newer 5 car 377s are really fast, but the 10 cars acceleration better than the 8 cars😂😂 ive even made a video showing it. Ill likely send you a link for it if i can. That being said, i speculate first, that the 378s having multiple motors enables better starting acceleration , but slightly tapers off due to the max power still being capped , regardless of more motors than the 377s. Its likely they may use a little more power than a 5 car 377, but who knows. The thing is the 378s acceleration seems very similar to class 376s towards 50 and 60mph, but have a slight edge i think so perhaps have slightly extra juice. The alternative ultimate reason i think 378s and 376s are faster than the usual third rail electrostars is due to motor and gear ratio. They seem to geared down to a lower speed than 377s, however heres the bizzare thing, 377s are geared towards higher speeds than the max speed they are capped at. E.g 120mph instead of 100mph. At least thats what the motors can likely do on a 377 if all software limits were off. Its been talked about on rail forum too about the max speed liky being well above 100mp for a 377 or 387. This means 378s can likely use the same power output but achieve faster acceleration even likely to the same max speeds hypothetically. The class 376/378s despite being limited to 75mph due to lack of lateral dampers on the bogies, in theory could probably hit 100mph. The sound they make and how long it takes to get to certain pitches via the motor/drive sounds are very similar to other trains like the class 458, or class 395 (they are geared for 140mph) and even a german train called the "talent 2" which sounds almost identical to the 378s. Ill link you a video of the german train .German talent 2 train *sound+rapid acceleration* (watch first 2 mins as it gets slow after) czcams.com/video/BxJbLEhIgng/video.htmlsi=aRzhBIYZmEQkaCFd

I just watched that video of the talent 2. Yeh they do sound very similar. You have an ear for that for sure! I wouldn't have noticed. " if i was a driver id aim to always gun it to line speed if theres enough distance and nothings in front of me haha" - What I normally do is pull away from the platform in Power Notch 2 until the cameras go off. Then I'll pop it in to Power Notch 3 until 15mph, then I'll whack it in to Power Notch 4. Mostly passengers apart from yourself wouldn't notice, as it's in fairly quick succession. That way it gives us enough time to view the cameras before they go out and then gives a nice smooth gradient to taking power. Trust me, you'll know when a driver goes straight in to Notch 4 from start haha! "That being said, i speculate first, that the 378s having multiple motors enables better starting acceleration , but slightly tapers off due to the max power still being capped" Agree with you on that. They're designed to be able to stop and start quickly with short durations between stops. I really don't expect them to win any long distance speed runs against a 377 for sure!

@@skoodledoo wow interesting interesting!! And also notch3 till 15mph. Tbh the high motor to wheel ratio would still put the acceleration at a match for 377s using notch 3 on a 378 so its rather gentle but affective it would seem🤣the max acceleration potential there is crazy. I didnt know the cameras were another factor limiting you guys. I think ive been on a notch 4 378 train from the start almost , i mean like..3mph in and BANG we are OFF!!. It was the first time i realised these trains had so much power. It was like 3 years ago🤣🤣🤣 To your last point, i dont know if i believe that 378s would not beat 377s long distance. Because even though the gear to motor ratio is lower on a 378, the gear to motor ratio (as it sounds because the sounds sort of indicate how its geared up) seem to indicate that it would hit nearer 90mph or 100mph the drive sounds are deep and take a while to reach a mid screaming pitch pitch around 50mph. The deep motor synchronous mode sounds (the "OMMM!!" sound you hear around 22 to 24mph) also is pretty deep around 45 to 50mph combined with the other smooth screaming motor /gear drive sound. this usually means that the motora are no way near max speed likely mid speed, and given this sound exists on other trains, it means other manufacturers accross the world use the same sort of motor to gear ratio, although these trains typically hit way beyond 75mph. Another quick vid, Srt Red line hitachi A train. With similar gear ratio style and similar sound as 378s. czcams.com/video/alR96N3ke7I/video.htmlsi=sCHUgNi0qfm8mMEc Also normally. The power these trains have already put them at 50mph to 60mph very fast. I have a video of a class 376 hitting 70mph, they do it pretty well tbf. So in theory a train like a class 377 using the same motor and gear boxes as 378s may enable it to be faster to max speed than how it already exists. The only thing limiting 378s is its purpose and not being built with lateral dampers on the side of the bogies for added suspension + keeping it riding smooth above 75mph. Its been speculated that class 377s are geared up so they could enable slower starting acceleration to reduce rail wear and cost entering service, and it t seems to make sense. By also reducing the number of motors, it means starting acceleration would be slower too but increasing the overall motor rating to 250kw means despite the lower motor to wheel ratio the desired power can still be achieved nearer 20mph , so a slower start but smooth and effective mid speed acceleration . If a 377 had 8 motors i wager the starting acceleration would be 0.75m/s² to 0.8m/s². But again all of this is speculation over a long period of time thinking. Recognising things etc. I could be wrong about the 378s vs 377s but im about 90% Sure they are much faster than 75mph without the functional limits. Thanks for listening to my ted ex talk 🤣

@@skoodledoo Yep, I've been on a 378 under AC. It wasn't even at notch 4 until about 20mph yet it was easily better than a 377/2 up to 45. They are very quick.

​@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf never been on an AC 377/2s tbh. Lets see if they ever do it again

Yeah bro!! Had to film it asap. I could have done this video a million years ago if i wanted , it just didn't cross my mind 😂😂 its also the only couple of places where the class 378 can go beyond 45mph

Nice, they are pretty decent. A bit slow but whatevs. But ultimately comfy. They have some weird motor buckling at times. I remember it sounded a bang once and the carriage slightly shifted. Not sure what caused it

Im used to partially rattling ride quality as i have electrostars down where i am and i used to riding on some of the more shakey ones.

Yeah man , definitely do!

Great northern dont go 110mph. Apparently there are restrictions on that line.. GWR are the only lines where they can hit 110mph atm.

Nope. GN 387s are limited to 100mph as their pantographs aren't suitable for 110mph running on the ECML.

@@BobC250 they should change that asap. No idea why they have a line up to 115mph but cant enable the panto for better performance

​@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524they do I've seen them pass Stevenage that speed

@@theunknown1st307 they dont because they arent actually allowed to go at that speed . Sure sometimes drivers overspeed, but its likely you caught it at 100mph. They arent allowed to even hit 110mph due to pantograph and contact wire limitations on the ECML. Unless theyve been updated which I haven't heard of yet, its likely that they arent hitting anyway near 110mph at the moment.

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They go to Bristol parkway?

@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Yeah, a handful of the London Paddington to Cardiff Central services are actually operated using Class 387s. Bristol Parkway is one of the calling points on that route, although the Class 387 services also call additionally at Didcot Parkway.