Great video. I drive these on this line. Unlike Electrostars, Capitalstars have an extra motor on each motor coach to enable better acceleration/deceleration. A 5 car 378 has 12 traction motors whereas a 5 car 377 has 8. Leaving Norwood Junction in this direction, we coast for a short while as there are a few sets of points that would cause jerking if the power was kept in. I usually take it up to 50mph heading northbound, but southbound between Anerley and Norwood I'll take it up to 60mph. I sometimes get it to 60 between Honor Oak Park and Brockley too and it's quick to get there! Going straight in to full power is frowned upon by management, but when we open it up, it wants to go! Geek alert, can tell you left Norwood at **:07 or **37 due to the fact that the driver was able to get up to 50mph. If it was **:22 or **:52 you'd have been following a Southern train from London Victoria from Sydenham.
Wow, aye man thanks for the insight. I was actually going to do a south bound journey soon. And thanks alot for the explanation. Its nice an actual driver is informing me of this!! I want to drive trains at some point myself, and thats funny , if i was a driver id aim to always gun it to line speed if theres enough distance and nothings in front of me haha. Also id probably blitz it after 4 mph , notch 3 then boom!! notch 4 if i could get away with it 🤣🤣 ive been on one that hit 60mph between norwood jnc and anerley before. I didnt get film though. Also ive theorised alot as to why southern 377s are slower upon starting. The funny thing is 4 car 377s are rapid by comparison to the 8 cars. But the newer 5 car 377s are really fast, but the 10 cars acceleration better than the 8 cars😂😂 ive even made a video showing it. Ill likely send you a link for it if i can. That being said, i speculate first, that the 378s having multiple motors enables better starting acceleration , but slightly tapers off due to the max power still being capped , regardless of more motors than the 377s. Its likely they may use a little more power than a 5 car 377, but who knows. The thing is the 378s acceleration seems very similar to class 376s towards 50 and 60mph, but have a slight edge i think so perhaps have slightly extra juice. The alternative ultimate reason i think 378s and 376s are faster than the usual third rail electrostars is due to motor and gear ratio. They seem to geared down to a lower speed than 377s, however heres the bizzare thing, 377s are geared towards higher speeds than the max speed they are capped at. E.g 120mph instead of 100mph. At least thats what the motors can likely do on a 377 if all software limits were off. Its been talked about on rail forum too about the max speed liky being well above 100mp for a 377 or 387. This means 378s can likely use the same power output but achieve faster acceleration even likely to the same max speeds hypothetically. The class 376/378s despite being limited to 75mph due to lack of lateral dampers on the bogies, in theory could probably hit 100mph. The sound they make and how long it takes to get to certain pitches via the motor/drive sounds are very similar to other trains like the class 458, or class 395 (they are geared for 140mph) and even a german train called the "talent 2" which sounds almost identical to the 378s. Ill link you a video of the german train .German talent 2 train *sound+rapid acceleration* (watch first 2 mins as it gets slow after) czcams.com/video/BxJbLEhIgng/video.htmlsi=aRzhBIYZmEQkaCFd
I just watched that video of the talent 2. Yeh they do sound very similar. You have an ear for that for sure! I wouldn't have noticed. " if i was a driver id aim to always gun it to line speed if theres enough distance and nothings in front of me haha" - What I normally do is pull away from the platform in Power Notch 2 until the cameras go off. Then I'll pop it in to Power Notch 3 until 15mph, then I'll whack it in to Power Notch 4. Mostly passengers apart from yourself wouldn't notice, as it's in fairly quick succession. That way it gives us enough time to view the cameras before they go out and then gives a nice smooth gradient to taking power. Trust me, you'll know when a driver goes straight in to Notch 4 from start haha! "That being said, i speculate first, that the 378s having multiple motors enables better starting acceleration , but slightly tapers off due to the max power still being capped" Agree with you on that. They're designed to be able to stop and start quickly with short durations between stops. I really don't expect them to win any long distance speed runs against a 377 for sure!
@@skoodledoo wow interesting interesting!! And also notch3 till 15mph. Tbh the high motor to wheel ratio would still put the acceleration at a match for 377s using notch 3 on a 378 so its rather gentle but affective it would seem🤣the max acceleration potential there is crazy. I didnt know the cameras were another factor limiting you guys. I think ive been on a notch 4 378 train from the start almost , i mean like..3mph in and BANG we are OFF!!. It was the first time i realised these trains had so much power. It was like 3 years ago🤣🤣🤣 To your last point, i dont know if i believe that 378s would not beat 377s long distance. Because even though the gear to motor ratio is lower on a 378, the gear to motor ratio (as it sounds because the sounds sort of indicate how its geared up) seem to indicate that it would hit nearer 90mph or 100mph the drive sounds are deep and take a while to reach a mid screaming pitch pitch around 50mph. The deep motor synchronous mode sounds (the "OMMM!!" sound you hear around 22 to 24mph) also is pretty deep around 45 to 50mph combined with the other smooth screaming motor /gear drive sound. this usually means that the motora are no way near max speed likely mid speed, and given this sound exists on other trains, it means other manufacturers accross the world use the same sort of motor to gear ratio, although these trains typically hit way beyond 75mph. Another quick vid, Srt Red line hitachi A train. With similar gear ratio style and similar sound as 378s. czcams.com/video/alR96N3ke7I/video.htmlsi=sCHUgNi0qfm8mMEc Also normally. The power these trains have already put them at 50mph to 60mph very fast. I have a video of a class 376 hitting 70mph, they do it pretty well tbf. So in theory a train like a class 377 using the same motor and gear boxes as 378s may enable it to be faster to max speed than how it already exists. The only thing limiting 378s is its purpose and not being built with lateral dampers on the side of the bogies for added suspension + keeping it riding smooth above 75mph. Its been speculated that class 377s are geared up so they could enable slower starting acceleration to reduce rail wear and cost entering service, and it t seems to make sense. By also reducing the number of motors, it means starting acceleration would be slower too but increasing the overall motor rating to 250kw means despite the lower motor to wheel ratio the desired power can still be achieved nearer 20mph , so a slower start but smooth and effective mid speed acceleration . If a 377 had 8 motors i wager the starting acceleration would be 0.75m/s² to 0.8m/s². But again all of this is speculation over a long period of time thinking. Recognising things etc. I could be wrong about the 378s vs 377s but im about 90% Sure they are much faster than 75mph without the functional limits. Thanks for listening to my ted ex talk 🤣
@@skoodledoo Yep, I've been on a 378 under AC. It wasn't even at notch 4 until about 20mph yet it was easily better than a 377/2 up to 45. They are very quick.
Yeah bro!! Had to film it asap. I could have done this video a million years ago if i wanted , it just didn't cross my mind 😂😂 its also the only couple of places where the class 378 can go beyond 45mph
I think it may be the fastest in london. 12-13 seconds between 40mph? nd 50mph? Not sure what other train beats it other than a 777. 701s do match it to a degree but idk if it would match 378s at notch 4 straight off the mark. 378s have something unique, 12 motors which enable a shit ton of motor torque/velocity until nearer 20mph. You know what i could be wrong, but i do think these plus 701s and 465/9s+710s DC are fastest dowm south for sure. Class 376 not falling short of these. I have more 376 footage brewing tbh. Im trying to capture them hitting 70mph frequently to get a good reading .
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Loads of motors yes, but heavy. A 5 car 378 is 202t, while a 5 car 701 is 173t. That's a huge difference of around 29t. I'd say that equals both of them out. Remember that also the acceleration on the latter isn't fully unlocked/realised due to current TCMS instability (according to a driver I know) which is something that will gradually improve over the next year
@@OneTrackMinded yeah i know more motors =more torque /starting acceleration. This doesent mean that the full power is enabled. Its still limited on all third rail trains really. Also they do balance out but the 701 uses less power , but BECAUSE its lighter. The class 378 still uses MORE capped continuous power, but the power is just spread to all motors. So all motors use less power which gives better protection for wear and tare with more torque. Also the class 378 is given power relitive to its weight. So if you gave a class 701 the same power as a class 378 on DC (likely 1400kw-1500kw), the 5 car class 701 would likely be as fast as an AC powered train. The difference in weight is astounding tbf. 206-212tons vs 17X tons *estimated weight* of a 5 car 701. The acceleration from 40 to 50mph of a 378 still seems to get a slight edge on the 701s though. And this is likely due to claas 378s having a taller gear ratio with a motor geared at a slightly lower speed than 701s. (378s likely being geared for 95max or 100mph max vs 701s likely being 110mph in its entirety due to how low pitch the synchronous mode sounds are, meaning the motor is likely rotating comparatively slower to the wheels to help take the train to higher speeds , despite a smaller or shorter gear ratio set up) Lastly, TCMS is a bit out of my range. Do explain to me what it is? I assume ,traction control management system? If so, then lets hope that changes a bit. I think bombadier should have opted for more classic higher end gear ratios with their motors, or a mixed set where you have lower /mid range gear ratios mixed with higher end range gear drives. This means the motor can be geared down and still achieve higher speeds smoothly aa the gears are larger, or two, you could still gear them to higher speeds than 100mph , but all phases of speed"low speed, mid speed, high speed " will still be easier to likely transition towards for the motor. It also means the motors would probably sound better tbh as a bi product. But this is speculation on my part.
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 TCMS is the train control management system. It controls basically every element of the train, these are modern units. Think of it like fly by wire on Airbus planes. Power control is what we're looking at here. The computer can decide how the train regulates or how it distributes power to the motors, and its power draw. A more stable version of this software is able to do this more effectively and therefore provide a. Better overall acceleration and b. More consistent acceleration. So, in a few software revisions (versions) time, it may be quite different. I'd say give it about a year, maybe wait for the new announcements to as I hear that will be part of a big overall patch. We're on version 2.0.17 right now
@@OneTrackMinded wow man, on one level i speculated there was a power control software in the train , and that updating it would make it better to control power. But i wasnt aware that it could improve it to a point where its so specific that itll allow more power at the wheels without overwhelming the supply of DC. I Guess older models of TCMS arent as good at getting power directed efficiently to the wheels? And so the pewer has to be capped to reduce wastage? This sort of also confirms what ive also thought which is, the more efficient and less power consumed by other electronic parts of the train , i.e lighting, auxiliary parts, AC, toilet tech etc, the more power can be directed to the motor as well as traction systems being better at directing power also. Trains like the Desiro HC in germant are stupidly fast due to massive amounts of power directed to the motor. But this can only be done sustainably if the traction control it uses is good at being good at directing that power efficiently to the motors, and not being wasteful with all that energy. That includes all other parts as well as TCMS. Perhaps this is why 701s even now, still accelerate better than class 700s. Class 707s seem to balance out with them but only around 40mph to 50mph, but for all we know class 707s may still have worse TCMS. Than a 701, so who knows. Also bear in mind, class 700s are slower than 707s on DC. Its strange.
To everyone watching, ill make another video real soon of these. Hopefully towards 60mph!!
(My personal account ^^)
Great video. I drive these on this line. Unlike Electrostars, Capitalstars have an extra motor on each motor coach to enable better acceleration/deceleration. A 5 car 378 has 12 traction motors whereas a 5 car 377 has 8. Leaving Norwood Junction in this direction, we coast for a short while as there are a few sets of points that would cause jerking if the power was kept in. I usually take it up to 50mph heading northbound, but southbound between Anerley and Norwood I'll take it up to 60mph. I sometimes get it to 60 between Honor Oak Park and Brockley too and it's quick to get there! Going straight in to full power is frowned upon by management, but when we open it up, it wants to go!
Geek alert, can tell you left Norwood at **:07 or **37 due to the fact that the driver was able to get up to 50mph. If it was **:22 or **:52 you'd have been following a Southern train from London Victoria from Sydenham.
Wow, aye man thanks for the insight. I was actually going to do a south bound journey soon. And thanks alot for the explanation. Its nice an actual driver is informing me of this!! I want to drive trains at some point myself, and thats funny , if i was a driver id aim to always gun it to line speed if theres enough distance and nothings in front of me haha. Also id probably blitz it after 4 mph , notch 3 then boom!! notch 4 if i could get away with it 🤣🤣 ive been on one that hit 60mph between norwood jnc and anerley before. I didnt get film though.
Also ive theorised alot as to why southern 377s are slower upon starting. The funny thing is 4 car 377s are rapid by comparison to the 8 cars. But the newer 5 car 377s are really fast, but the 10 cars acceleration better than the 8 cars😂😂 ive even made a video showing it. Ill likely send you a link for it if i can.
That being said, i speculate first, that the 378s having multiple motors enables better starting acceleration , but slightly tapers off due to the max power still being capped , regardless of more motors than the 377s. Its likely they may use a little more power than a 5 car 377, but who knows. The thing is the 378s acceleration seems very similar to class 376s towards 50 and 60mph, but have a slight edge i think so perhaps have slightly extra juice.
The alternative ultimate reason i think 378s and 376s are faster than the usual third rail electrostars is due to motor and gear ratio. They seem to geared down to a lower speed than 377s, however heres the bizzare thing, 377s are geared towards higher speeds than the max speed they are capped at. E.g 120mph instead of 100mph. At least thats what the motors can likely do on a 377 if all software limits were off. Its been talked about on rail forum too about the max speed liky being well above 100mp for a 377 or 387. This means 378s can likely use the same power output but achieve faster acceleration even likely to the same max speeds hypothetically.
The class 376/378s despite being limited to 75mph due to lack of lateral dampers on the bogies, in theory could probably hit 100mph. The sound they make and how long it takes to get to certain pitches via the motor/drive sounds are very similar to other trains like the class 458, or class 395 (they are geared for 140mph) and even a german train called the "talent 2" which sounds almost identical to the 378s.
Ill link you a video of the german train
.German talent 2 train *sound+rapid acceleration* (watch first 2 mins as it gets slow after)
czcams.com/video/BxJbLEhIgng/video.htmlsi=aRzhBIYZmEQkaCFd
I just watched that video of the talent 2. Yeh they do sound very similar. You have an ear for that for sure! I wouldn't have noticed.
" if i was a driver id aim to always gun it to line speed if theres enough distance and nothings in front of me haha" - What I normally do is pull away from the platform in Power Notch 2 until the cameras go off. Then I'll pop it in to Power Notch 3 until 15mph, then I'll whack it in to Power Notch 4. Mostly passengers apart from yourself wouldn't notice, as it's in fairly quick succession. That way it gives us enough time to view the cameras before they go out and then gives a nice smooth gradient to taking power. Trust me, you'll know when a driver goes straight in to Notch 4 from start haha!
"That being said, i speculate first, that the 378s having multiple motors enables better starting acceleration , but slightly tapers off due to the max power still being capped" Agree with you on that. They're designed to be able to stop and start quickly with short durations between stops. I really don't expect them to win any long distance speed runs against a 377 for sure!
@@skoodledoo wow interesting interesting!! And also notch3 till 15mph. Tbh the high motor to wheel ratio would still put the acceleration at a match for 377s using notch 3 on a 378 so its rather gentle but affective it would seem🤣the max acceleration potential there is crazy. I didnt know the cameras were another factor limiting you guys. I think ive been on a notch 4 378 train from the start almost , i mean like..3mph in and BANG we are OFF!!. It was the first time i realised these trains had so much power. It was like 3 years ago🤣🤣🤣
To your last point, i dont know if i believe that 378s would not beat 377s long distance. Because even though the gear to motor ratio is lower on a 378, the gear to motor ratio (as it sounds because the sounds sort of indicate how its geared up) seem to indicate that it would hit nearer 90mph or 100mph the drive sounds are deep and take a while to reach a mid screaming pitch pitch around 50mph. The deep motor synchronous mode sounds (the "OMMM!!" sound you hear around 22 to 24mph) also is pretty deep around 45 to 50mph combined with the other smooth screaming motor /gear drive sound. this usually means that the motora are no way near max speed likely mid speed, and given this sound exists on other trains, it means other manufacturers accross the world use the same sort of motor to gear ratio, although these trains typically hit way beyond 75mph.
Another quick vid, Srt Red line hitachi A train. With similar gear ratio style and similar sound as 378s.
czcams.com/video/alR96N3ke7I/video.htmlsi=sCHUgNi0qfm8mMEc
Also normally. The power these trains have already put them at 50mph to 60mph very fast. I have a video of a class 376 hitting 70mph, they do it pretty well tbf. So in theory a train like a class 377 using the same motor and gear boxes as 378s may enable it to be faster to max speed than how it already exists.
The only thing limiting 378s is its purpose and not being built with lateral dampers on the side of the bogies for added suspension + keeping it riding smooth above 75mph. Its been speculated that class 377s are geared up so they could enable slower starting acceleration to reduce rail wear and cost entering service, and it t seems to make sense. By also reducing the number of motors, it means starting acceleration would be slower too but increasing the overall motor rating to 250kw means despite the lower motor to wheel ratio the desired power can still be achieved nearer 20mph , so a slower start but smooth and effective mid speed acceleration . If a 377 had 8 motors i wager the starting acceleration would be 0.75m/s² to 0.8m/s².
But again all of this is speculation over a long period of time thinking. Recognising things etc. I could be wrong about the 378s vs 377s but im about 90% Sure they are much faster than 75mph without the functional limits.
Thanks for listening to my ted ex talk 🤣
@@skoodledoo Yep, I've been on a 378 under AC. It wasn't even at notch 4 until about 20mph yet it was easily better than a 377/2 up to 45. They are very quick.
@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf never been on an AC 377/2s tbh. Lets see if they ever do it again
Use to enjoy this section years back 🔥🔥🔥
Yeah bro!! Had to film it asap. I could have done this video a million years ago if i wanted , it just didn't cross my mind 😂😂 its also the only couple of places where the class 378 can go beyond 45mph
Quite fast. Not the fastest on third rail but still really good
I think it may be the fastest in london. 12-13 seconds between 40mph? nd 50mph? Not sure what other train beats it other than a 777. 701s do match it to a degree but idk if it would match 378s at notch 4 straight off the mark. 378s have something unique, 12 motors which enable a shit ton of motor torque/velocity until nearer 20mph.
You know what i could be wrong, but i do think these plus 701s and 465/9s+710s DC are fastest dowm south for sure. Class 376 not falling short of these. I have more 376 footage brewing tbh. Im trying to capture them hitting 70mph frequently to get a good reading .
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Loads of motors yes, but heavy. A 5 car 378 is 202t, while a 5 car 701 is 173t. That's a huge difference of around 29t. I'd say that equals both of them out. Remember that also the acceleration on the latter isn't fully unlocked/realised due to current TCMS instability (according to a driver I know) which is something that will gradually improve over the next year
@@OneTrackMinded yeah i know more motors =more torque /starting acceleration. This doesent mean that the full power is enabled. Its still limited on all third rail trains really.
Also they do balance out but the 701 uses less power , but BECAUSE its lighter. The class 378 still uses MORE capped continuous power, but the power is just spread to all motors. So all motors use less power which gives better protection for wear and tare with more torque.
Also the class 378 is given power relitive to its weight. So if you gave a class 701 the same power as a class 378 on DC (likely 1400kw-1500kw), the 5 car class 701 would likely be as fast as an AC powered train. The difference in weight is astounding tbf. 206-212tons vs 17X tons *estimated weight* of a 5 car 701. The acceleration from 40 to 50mph of a 378 still seems to get a slight edge on the 701s though. And this is likely due to claas 378s having a taller gear ratio with a motor geared at a slightly lower speed than 701s. (378s likely being geared for 95max or 100mph max vs 701s likely being 110mph in its entirety due to how low pitch the synchronous mode sounds are, meaning the motor is likely rotating comparatively slower to the wheels to help take the train to higher speeds , despite a smaller or shorter gear ratio set up)
Lastly, TCMS is a bit out of my range. Do explain to me what it is? I assume ,traction control management system? If so, then lets hope that changes a bit.
I think bombadier should have opted for more classic higher end gear ratios with their motors, or a mixed set where you have lower /mid range gear ratios mixed with higher end range gear drives. This means the motor can be geared down and still achieve higher speeds smoothly aa the gears are larger, or two, you could still gear them to higher speeds than 100mph , but all phases of speed"low speed, mid speed, high speed " will still be easier to likely transition towards for the motor. It also means the motors would probably sound better tbh as a bi product. But this is speculation on my part.
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 TCMS is the train control management system. It controls basically every element of the train, these are modern units. Think of it like fly by wire on Airbus planes.
Power control is what we're looking at here. The computer can decide how the train regulates or how it distributes power to the motors, and its power draw. A more stable version of this software is able to do this more effectively and therefore provide a. Better overall acceleration and b. More consistent acceleration.
So, in a few software revisions (versions) time, it may be quite different. I'd say give it about a year, maybe wait for the new announcements to as I hear that will be part of a big overall patch. We're on version 2.0.17 right now
@@OneTrackMinded wow man, on one level i speculated there was a power control software in the train , and that updating it would make it better to control power. But i wasnt aware that it could improve it to a point where its so specific that itll allow more power at the wheels without overwhelming the supply of DC. I Guess older models of TCMS arent as good at getting power directed efficiently to the wheels? And so the pewer has to be capped to reduce wastage?
This sort of also confirms what ive also thought which is, the more efficient and less power consumed by other electronic parts of the train , i.e lighting, auxiliary parts, AC, toilet tech etc, the more power can be directed to the motor as well as traction systems being better at directing power also. Trains like the Desiro HC in germant are stupidly fast due to massive amounts of power directed to the motor. But this can only be done sustainably if the traction control it uses is good at being good at directing that power efficiently to the motors, and not being wasteful with all that energy. That includes all other parts as well as TCMS. Perhaps this is why 701s even now, still accelerate better than class 700s. Class 707s seem to balance out with them but only around 40mph to 50mph, but for all we know class 707s may still have worse TCMS. Than a 701, so who knows. Also bear in mind, class 700s are slower than 707s on DC. Its strange.