Video

I’ve been saying this for years! I think Snyder has a unique directing style that can work, and some of his earlier films were pretty good, but as soon as he was given the pen to start writing his own scripts, is when the quality of his films just plummeted, and yeah, I’m still baffled that Man of Steel 2 wasn’t ever made, I feel like it honestly should’ve been made directly after the first one, why not strike while the iron is hot, and continue his story

Yeah, I was a little skeptical of the 4th film just because Matt Reeves wasn’t returning to direct it, and it’s so far in the future, but I really liked it! The Rise, Dawn, War trilogy really did shock me with how good it was, I never thought I’d care so much about an ape who couldn’t even speak until like 3/4 of the way through the first movie, but they did a great job developing Caesar throughout

@@ScreenedStories People seem to think that this is what movies were and are like in terms of quality: Pre-21st century: More quality than quantity 2000s: Perfect blend of both 2010s: More quantity than quality (I guess I just focused on all the good ones like Planet of the Apes) 2020s so far: More Ideology than quality What do you think of all of these? The first 3 were from a comment I found on a Foltest Animations short, and the last one was from my brother.

@@suryasingh9738 Yeah I think as a broad stroke these categories/labels make sense to me, the 2020s have definitely seen a lot of movies more concerned with spreading a message rather telling a coherent narrative, I do think there’s some exceptions, like pre-21st century most successful horror films got a slew of sequels, most of which ended up being bad, but that’s honestly a pretty consistent thing for the horror genre even now, but I do think the 2000s saw a lot of solid trilogies, which is usually a good balance between quantity and quality

@@ScreenedStories Yeah, thankfully both this decade (so far) and the previous had plenty of good movies to keep us entertained. I can only hope the 2030s is an improvement on both the 2010s and the 2020s in the eyes of the public.

@@ScreenedStories You're right, there are some exceptions in the 2020s like Soul. The main story wasn't about the main character being black it was about him pursuing his dream of being a musician. Elementals gave a watered down version of a Chinese immigrant's journey to America & settling in America by using elements (I personally thought this movie was barely average overall, had a really nice soundtrack though).

I will say, I think Man of Steel 2 should have been made ages ago, before Batman V. Superman in my opinion honestly

Monkey, is home

I love the passion, I agree with you though, I think we’ve seen a lot of the A-list DC characters in movies, primarily Batman and Superman over the past few decades, so it’s definitely time to let some of the other characters shine, and focusing on villains would be great, I think DC definitely has more iconic villains than Marvel, so putting them in the spotlight would be interesting, I’d also love if most of the villains weren’t just one offs, most MCU bad guys get one movie and then are killed off unceremoniously, so I’d like to see some recurring villainous characters in the DCU to set it apart

True, Batman V. Superman did come out two months before Civil War, but BVS was undeniably a rush job that tried to fast track a team up in just the second film of a cinematic universe, and was a response to the success of the MCU overall, the MCU was financially dominating the box office with Avengers films, and the DCEU wanted to reach that point as fast as possible, hence making a BVS as their second film

Civil War was better. Batman V. Superman only good first watch.

Yet civil war made sense because it already established characters, WB shouldn’t had gone from man of steel to BVS, WB was trying to bank on the fact that avengers made money

@@Linktheevil1211 100% agree, I think WB saw that the Avengers made over a billion dollars, and decided to fast track their way to a Justice League film without setting up anything properly, which is the biggest reason it bombed in my opinion

@@ScreenedStories yep it bomb and thanks to that the future of the DCEU took a hit at the box office no matter how good some movies were after JL people were not interested in the DCEU and damaged the brand, let’s hope James Gunn can restore that trust in audiences because even for DC fans we are not the majority for the DC movies to keep making money in return, they need the trust in general audiences just like what marvel did with their movies leading up to avengers and even infinity war and endgame because they know marvel will deliver

For sure, I expect both roles will get recast and I’m interested to see who the new Wonder Woman will be, I’d personally like an Ana de Armas casting

Yeah I’m definitely surprised they allowed a new Batman to be made without connecting it to the DCU, especially since it was successful, feels like a natural way to kick start things with a project that you know fans are already behind

@@ScreenedStories do you think there is a chance they will change their minds?

@@samuelwanzio4703 I think it’s unlikely, but not impossible, if the first few films/projects don’t generate the movie/views they want them to, I think it’s possible that they’ll try and use Pattinson’s Batman rather than creating a new one just for financial reasons since Pattinson has a committed fan base already, and they did a really good job of fleshing out Gotham City in his film, so in my mind it would lend itself to bringing additional characters into the fold

@@ScreenedStories I really wish they would do it because I don’t want a new Batman again we just got this one and I want to see him grow. The new they tryna give us sounds like he been Batman for a very long time already. I really hope they change their mind and reconsider

The only thing I'm worried about is this movie not making enough for a sequel. It has all the tools to start a new universe and even surpass a lot of comic book movies. Although who knows, I might be surprised seeing that Aquaman of all superheroes made over a billion at the box office.

Lmao, that was hysterical, fair play 😂

Bro why?? Man gave us guardians of galaxy 3, one of the best mcu movies ever made

Fair enough, I mean I’m a fan of Gunn’s films so I’m interested to see what’s what, but given Warner Brother’s track record with DC content, I kinda get it

@user-hf4jz8uj5n One of the worst in my opinion.

I hope so, I’ve been hearing that’ll be the structure of things, which would be great, but as you said, WB seems to never know what they want so there’s always that chance that they’ll interfere, but my hope is that the first few installments are successful, which should lower the odds of WB ruining things

The only person who can interfere is Zazlav. And he’s already funded the studio. So the gamble on the investment is in Gunn and Ssfrons hands right now. And it seems things will be ok

@@AlkalineInsides For sure, assuming the first few installments are financially successful, I think they’ll stay the course and let Gunn and Safran cook, if Superman gets mixed reviews or does so so at the box office, then I’ll start worrying a bit harder

The Genre is done. I think it will be a decent film, either under appreciated or overrated ... a lot of "It was always doomed" sh*t talking .. we will see in 2025. He better get it right, and I just don't think a lot of people , esp. normies wont really care. Its all convoluted.

@@SuperOmnicronsj44 Yeah, the superhero genre as a whole is definitely over saturated at this point, so there’s certainly a chance it flops at the box office even if it is pretty good

I agree with you, I’m mixed on Snyder as a director, but can’t deny that he had some interesting ideas for the DCEU, but ultimately I do think his takes on the characters definitely don’t lend themselves to an expansive universe, as you need a wide spanning audience in order to maintain something for so many movies, and while he has his diehard fans, I don’t think his darker tone necessarily works for all of DC’s characters

Hindsight is 20/20. Gunn could f up as well .. I think the whole genre is bad until DEI is finished. A lot of Gunn stans running their mouth ... WE SHALL SEE.

@@ScreenedStories I see a lot of people say that it was the studios fault because they wanted darker like the Nolan trilogy, so it’s not zack’s fault. But here’s the problem zacks ideas weren’t good. U can still have a dark cinamatic universe but when the characters are not who they truly are is where the problem lies. There are plenty of dark Batman stories where Batman is still fundamentally who he is as a character. Same with Superman and other characters. There’s nothing wrong with darkers stories it’s just that zack changed the characters from who they fundamentally are

@@hungryalmighty7156 Yeah I agree with that, darker stories are definitely a staple in DC comics, and part of what makes these storylines so great is that they confront the characters with bleak times and tough scenarios, which ultimately highlight the fundamental core of who these characters are, even through adversity, but, much like a house, if they foundation isn’t solid or established correctly, it doesn’t really matter what storyline is used, it was doomed to fail anyways, Snyder’s fundamental misunderstanding/misinterpretation of a lot of DC characters was always going to be an issue

In current Disney canon no gray Jedi exist, but they were a thing in legends. I disagree with your assessment because it is impossible to truly eliminate all of the darkness within oneself, rather, accepting it and learning to keep it under control is what true balance is in my eyes, hence my stance on mastering both being actual balance. But, even if true balance is using the light to eradicate all darkness, I still think having Dooku trying to use both sides and forge his own path in the middle would’ve been a far more interesting direction, and is an understandable conclusion I could see someone coming to

​@@ScreenedStoriesThere were no gray jedi in the EU, too, and no balancing the light and dark isn't possible it's like mixing water and oil.

@@clonecommanderrex8542 I’d argue Cade Skywalker, Asajj Ventress, and Quinlan Vos were all arguable gray Jedi, but whether or not they were officially titled it doesn’t really matter to my point, the idea of falling somewhere between the Sith and the Jedi is certainly a thing whether you give yourself the title of gray Jedi or not. To say you’re either 100% dark side or 100% light side is just something I don’t see at all to be honest with you, the Jedi didn’t want to train Anakin initially because they saw darkness within him, and Luke didn’t want to give up on his father because he saw light still within him, I don’t think Anakin/Vader was ever 100% on either side which of course means he fell somewhere in between. But, even if you think I’m wrong, which is fine, people will interpret things differently, that’s natural, I still think the story of Dooku foolishly trying to have the best of both worlds in training in the light and dark side, would have been a far more interesting story than what we got, it then becomes a tragic tale of a man who wanted to pave his own way, but was ultimately corrupted by the dark side and lost his life’s purpose, but as is he’s just a pretty cut and dry sith apprentice, and I wish we explored his psyche a bit further

@@ScreenedStories None of them were grey jedi unless you mean the offical definition of a grey jedi: A Maverick jedi or a lightside user who isn't a jedi. Balancing both sides is the fan Definition

Yeah I do think it was an intentional decision from George, and I think you make a good point in that it may very well have been a reactionary decision to the negative feedback from episode 1, but yeah the dark side corrupting him is the most common explanation I’ve seen, and I think it’s a little weak tbh, conceptually I understand that the dark side corrupts individuals over time, but Vader was a sith for longer and still was able to rebuke it in the end, so I feel like if Dooku’s goal was to be in the middle, which it seems like it was, that he’d be able to walk the balance between the two, but even if he couldn’t resist the darkness, I think exploring his struggle and failure to resist the dark side would have been interesting to see, as it just largely gets ignored

@@ScreenedStories all in all i think he was used great and a lovely character also tho im not 100% sure but can the dark side corrupt deep conviction for justice and even then seems it’s kinda weak ,palpatine was a psychopath before he even touched the dark side so yeah maybe it doesn’t corrupt maybe it just gives you more power to do the things you want or maybe this was all a facade to appear good and noble if they went with that could have been cool as well it feels theres a lot of mystery still with dooku tho

@@andresfurious8302 I agree, I do think he’s a good character, especially when including the comic and TV show materials, but you’re right about still having a bit of mystery with his character, which honestly is probably intentional, but I do think there’s some interesting things that could be explored pertaining to his mindset and why he became a Sith ultimately

For sure, I think a balance of lesser known and well established characters will be key, because if you can get people to buy into the obscure ones, then they’re way more likely to buy into the universe overall. I think the Batman dynamic will be very interesting between the DCU and Reeves films, it could work, but I do think on top of competing with Robert Pattinson’s take on the character, Batman has just been a bit over saturated over the past set decade or so, I mean 4 live action Batmen in the past 15 years or so is a lot, so I’ll be interested in how Gunn goes about making his take stand out. I didn’t mention the suit just because I need to see it in motion first, it’s looking okay in the one pic we got, but I think the trailer will be more telling and give us a better glimpse of it, it’s not blowing me away, but if we get some great looking shots of him in the suit, my opinion can be swayed a bit

Like I said from the beginning. He better get Superman right, and he is talking WAY TOO MUCH. He wrecked a very popular and likeable character (Henry Cavill).

@@SuperOmnicronsj44 Cavill was MY Superman growing up, but yeah Gunn's gotta do great on this movie for a prosperous live action DCU. So far, based on what I've seen Corenswet looks like he's gonna do great as the character, and the rest of the cast seem like great casting choices (I like that they made Lex and Lois seem like they were around Superman's age).

@@SuperOmnicronsj44 Yeah, I do think the handling of letting Cavil go and closing out the DCEU could’ve been handled a lot better, I also think Gunn’s confidence is interesting, I guess you kind of need to at least present that level of confidence to get fans talking, but it lends me to think that he has some tricks up his sleeve

No no, you were always a Captain Marvel stan, don’t switch up now

?

@@ScreenedStories What is this guy talking about?

@@suryasingh9738 lmao, he’s a good friend of mine, he’s just yapping 😂

@@ScreenedStories Oh lol.

Yeah that’s definitely one of the biggest points the DCU will have to hit on, getting characters to vibe together. Presumably we’ll be getting different tones/genres from project to project, so once it’s time to bring everyone together it’ll be interesting to see how they go about doing it. The MCU had an easy time of this since most their films have similar tones, but I’m interested in the path the DCU will take, I have a feeling it’ll be similar in some regards, but will aim to try new things as well

I have a good feeling they will.

@@suryasingh9738 They certainly could, they have the material to adapt and draw inspiration from, and James Gunn is proven in the comic scene, but they did just fumble the DCEU, so I’m cautiously optimistic, and a little weary of the studio itself

well if the batfamily is already developed, batman would've already gotten over the "working alone" aspect.

@@jjeteuati264 I'm guessing he did by year 2 or 3 in the DCU.

Oh I agree 100%, killing Maul off after just one movie was a huge mistake in my mind, he looks so intimidating, and the clone wars did prove that he could be at the heart of some really great storylines

From a technical filmmaking perspective, I agree with you, they certainly look better with great practical effects and less of a dependency on CGI, and I think you can certainly argue that the dialogue is better written (though I think the screenwriting is really weak in both trilogies) but my biggest issue with the sequels is that the storyline is directionless and pointless. The prequels set out to tell the story of the chosen one’s fall to the dark side, which was something that the OT left untold, and is intrinsically interesting, but what did the sequels set out to tell? The prequels have poor execution in a lot of areas, but what are the sequels even trying to execute? The fact that the tone and direction of each film changes so drastically within the sequel trilogy, tells me that Disney didn’t really have a purpose outside of making money, and that is my biggest issue with the sequels.

Yeah I agree with you wholeheartedly, not that Christopher Lee is horribly casted in the role, but I do think he was casted due to his role as Sauroman and I think adding the “Count” to his character’s name was a direct callback to Lee having played Count Dracula in the past

@ScreenedStories Not at all, but Christopher Lee basically always excel anyway. But typecast usually means you are so good at that role, you always get it. And it does not really appeal to your acting artistic side.

Yeah I do agree, I think if the prequels focused more on the Obi-Wan and Dooku connection, it could have been something great, given that Dooku was Qui-Gon’s master and it was already established that Qui-Gon was often at odds with the council, having Dooku as a middle ground between the dark and the light, could’ve served as actual temptation for Obi-Wan to join him, because the allure is certainly understandable… but instead it ends up being a throw away scene where Obi-Wan rejects him quickly and emphatically, which I think was just a big mistake, because presenting us with an anti-villain/anti-hero who is trying to tell us that both the heroes and villains are wrong, would have been fascinating to me, and all the pieces were in place to go in this direction

Dude with gray hair is Saruman, and the little green guy is Gollum

I agree, I think the comics and especially the clone wars made him a more dynamic and interesting character, but I do wish the movies themselves utilized him a little differently, or even just more, his screen time was super limited

@@ScreenedStories Did you see the official look for Darth Plagueis? Disney released it back in 2021.

@@suryasingh9738 Yeah I was a fan, it didn’t give us too much, but I liked his ominous sith eyes, I honestly was a big supporter of the Snoke being Plagueis theory prior to TLJ, honestly wish they ran with that idea

@@ScreenedStories Or Palpatine could've used a Plagueis clone to make Snoke. Maybe Snoke is a descendant of Plagueis or simply someone that follows the teachings of the dark side but not the Sith. Would've been nice to see a flashback of Palpatine training Maul on Korriban (the Sith planet) with Plagueis as a ghostly figure watching them knowing his apprentice would kill him so he made plans to start a secret cult BTS. Snoke could be a descendant of one of the followers.

@@ScreenedStories Btw, keep doing more characters that had potential. May I suggest General Grevious for your next one?

I respect your opinion, I personally don't think any movie can truly be 100% flawless, but everyone watches movies for different things and have unique preferences, so I understand the love of the prequels and the OT, but we can certainly agree on the Sequels, definitely flaws galore in that trilogy

Yeah I agree with you largely, I think ROTJ, the prequels, the sequels, they all have their flaws, but film is largely a medium that’s made to allow people to escape for a few hours and transport themselves to a different world or different time, so I think it’s important to find what you like and to enjoy it regardless of how objectively good it is, I’ve also been someone who enjoys analyzing movies, but can still enjoy them flaws and all for the most part

I agree with your take on the cannon, I like a lot of the new stuff, but definitely miss some of the old comic material like the Heir to the Empire trilogy, and I understand your take on Anakin, I think his journey is fascinating, regardless of how good the execution is at times

@@ScreenedStories of course. There’s a lot I feel they can work with but a lot of those old stories need streamlining. It was a lot of 90s era schlock being crammed in I feel. The Luke clones and tbh a lot of stuff in regards to Luke I really didn’t like in legends ngl Lmaoo I will say this and I mean, I DO think Revan and Mara Jade gotta show up in a canon story at some point I feel. We got Darth Bane and they can use those unused models down the road for him someday. But man, Just don’t make Mara Luke’s wife. they can have like a fling or something but Luke married to that grind loll

@@senior_sakuga Lol, yeah I agree, I'm luke warm on Luke's storyline post ROTJ (pun intended) but I do really like Thrawn as a villain and Mara Jade is my favorite legends character which largley fuels my enjoyment of the heir to the empire trilogy, but you're right there's definitely ways to improve and streamline it if they do end up adapting it at some point, and I would love to see Revan, Malgus, and Vitiate in some form or capacity in live action, potentially in a Knights of the Old Republic trilogy would be cool to see

I agree with that, the only movie in the sequel trilogy that I actively think is really bad, is Rise of Skywalker, I think Force Awakens was a good first step, Last Jedi I’m kind of mixed on, I think it’s a better Science Fiction film than a Star Wars film, but yeah I do think the level of backlash towards the trilogy was extreme, and I could see the younger generation defending them heavily in a decade or so

@@ScreenedStories Yeah man, like a traumatic amount of hatred against movies that really don’t deserve it. No movie should deserve a Star Wars fan level of hatred tbh also, “better science fiction film than Star Wars film” that’s such a backhanded compliment dude lmaoo it’s just as much a Star Wars story as every other one that you do and don’t like. That’s like saying the clone wars is a better war show than a Star Wars show. Just because Luke isn’t chopping down stormtroopers or whatever doesn’t mean it’s not worth being seen as a SW story, warts n all. Last Jedi is the most Star Wars thing I feel because they can’t stop doing stuff with the force. Also Yoda. Also it’s the best acting we’ve ever gotten out of mark hamill for this franchise that’s for sure. I can’t stand attack of the clones either but I know that it’s still a star war XDD

@@senior_sakuga It is a bit of a backhanded compliment, but it mainly comes from a place of it feeling like an odd continuation of the storyline, I'm all for being experimental and trying new things, but I think Last Jedi takes it a bit too far, with like the whole Rose and Finn off world storyline, and how dark and bleak they went with Luke's character, from a technical perspective it's well made, and well acted, and yeah mark is showing his acting chops off here, more than any other Star Wars film by a good margin, but it feels to me like he is a totally different character almost, and it's not because he isn't twirling around or cutting a bunch of storm troopers down, it's more so because he in a way gave up on his Nephew because of a bad dream and thought about killing him, where as he refused to give up on his father and held onto the little bit of light that might've been left inside Vader, so it feels like an odd thing for an older and more wise Luke to do, now of course people grow and change over time, so it is possible that Luke grew cynical in his older age, but we don't really get to see any of this development happen, which is why it feels so odd, so when I say it's a better science fiction film than a Star Wars film, it's not that it is poorly made, directed, or acted, or that I don't view it as a Star Wars film, I think it's well made, it just feels like an unnatural story progression in the context of the other films, especially post Rise of Skywalker which essentially ignored and retconned as much as it could from Last Jedi, where Luke is now joyful and optimistic again in ROS

@@ScreenedStories “The greatest teacher failure is.” And it’s gonna be a lifelong battle you face no matter how old you get was my takeaway. Even Luke can take L’s after everything he’s been through man. Look at the last 20 minutes of that movie. My fellow nerd, you understand that for how dark his story got in TLJ Luke had a character arc where he did become the more hopeful optimist again and did the most Jedi thing of using knowledge and defense to sacrifice himself for the future and bounced back right? He pulled an obi and became more powerful than we could possibly imagine. Unc got his groove back after learning to let go. Which is again, a very Star Wars thing to do. I’m sorry but calling it good sci fi and not good Star Wars is just such cope. 😭 Yeah Finn n rose arc coulda been if not cooler, for sure way less meandering. Yes they did finn n Poe dirty. They shoulda been together ngl so I’m with you there. Also, for those still saying Luke was nerfed, could Anakin do force projection? I don’t think so lmao And Yes I’m with you on that we should’ve been shown way more of a like more “objective” answer as to how everything came undone post ROTJ, but like, its not the route they took but I still get the gist. Also they wanted to make room for making stories abt that with all these shows and comics and now movies coming out soon during that era like a clone wars. Make of that what you will. But it’s not like we were gonna get 15 minutes of worldbuilding about galactic politics during a time when prequel hate was still fresh when the first two sequel movies came out. Streamlined to a fault. Should we have seen more brief vignettes on how Ben got trained and got turned? Absolutely. If they wanted fans to be less pissy, make the Rey and Luke fight in the rain lesson three, have him pop out the green saber so nerds can coom n point at the screen, extend the fight, get them good angles, and extend the scene where Rey confronts Luke and have him show and tell all about how Ben got handed off to Luke and Ben’s training started to make him lose himself and all that. Give Kylo the Voldemort treatment and show us everything we need to know so we can make better conclusions. It would minimize the amount of anger nerds still have while having the movie still be itself. another issue I think is the whole backstory mystery angle of Luke and Ben is pretty much the only reason why ppl get so mad at Luke because of the conflicting stories each character tells. Luke as a character has always had moments of weakness. I mean, he’s a Skywalker. conflict and weakness is what they’re all about yeah? He was never gonna be Jedi Jesus, he’s Anakin’s kid bro. Did the prequels not show us that mighty skywalker blood has its drawbacks? Also Luke, like Anakin, was too prideful, he let the legend of himself get to his head and it came back to bite him. At least that’s my take about all that. This bit isn’t on you but in general man, I’m so sick of so many people saying they felt so betrayed by TLJ as if it’s an Afront to god. ROS, sure, have at it, cuz there’s enough there to shoot down story wise even tho I ironically enjoy it. It’s my spider-man 3 frfr Lmaoo There’s so much cognitive dissonance between every generation about these sequel movies should be studied at Harvard on how a nerd holy war can start. It created an entire right wing nerd movement with the fandom menace but Star Wars fan hatred has been gestating since 1999 :( I remember them making a documentary about how George Lucas was the antichrist 💀

@@ScreenedStories I don’t say any of this out of anger, Your takes are valid, I just like everyone else have my own view on what a star war is. And honestly, even if George still owned everything, mfs would still hate it let’s not even pretend anymore 😭

I've gone back and forth quite a bit on the Last Jedi, for me personally, I think it is a fine science fiction film on its own, but in the context of the trilogy and franchise as a whole, it's not a great Star Wars film, as far as fitting in the continuity and vibe of the other movies, but I do think Rise of Skywalker is far worse, and kind of makes Last Jedi worse in retrospect by not doubling down on the direction Last Jedi went in

@@ScreenedStories fair

That's fair enough, and I respect your opinion, I think a lot of film criticism ultimately comes down to personal preference and what you're looking for out of a movie experience

I agree with your point about the spanning of time throughout the trilogies, with the prequels, episode one being so far removed from the other two films has always been a weird creative choice to me, and I see what your saying about the awkwardness of their romance, I think most real life romances, especially in the early stages are naturally a little awkward, that’s part of the charm of romance, I just personally think it’s a little too weird between Anakin and Padme, like there’s a fine line between cute awkward and weird awkward when creating romances, and for me it leans to far into the later category in moments of Attack of the Clones, but I do understand your point and think there’s some validity to it

@@ScreenedStories They went with Anakin as a little kid because they used the 'see how this innocent child turns into Darth Vader" to promote the films. If Anakin is an emo from the start it doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened here.

Also why wouldn’t a 19 year old who spent the last decade raised by emotionless monks be awkward in romance

@@commodorezero I understand why they started with Anakin so young and innocent, I just think then jumping ten years immediately is a bit jarring and kind of skips a lot of Anakin's development as a Jedi, where we could've seen glimpses of his dark side as he trained, I like aspects of Phantom Menace, but it has always felt like it almost belongs to another trilogy with the time jump if that makes sense, I could see an argument that there should have been a fourth film in between TPM and AOTC to bridge the gap a little, the prequels were a vast amount of story to fit into 1 trilogy, which is why I think the clone wars were so good, and needed

@@Trelitty11 He should be awkward, but given how awkward and just straight up creepy he is at times, my disconnect is why Padme requites his love in a romantic way, at least so quickly, to me, it feels like she mainly does because she has to for the plot to move forward, rather than it feeling like a natural progression

Yeah I think immediately after the sequels, was a time of propping up all other Star Wars content in comparison to the sequels, and while I do think it’s fair to dunk on the sequels, them being bad doesn’t impact the quality of any other Star Wars content, it should be judged on its own merit

I think that’s a commendable mindset to have going into a movie, I think the big screen is certainly a transport to another world for a few hours, and when done well it’s a great escape, though I also enjoy analyzing movies after the fact and thinking about what worked, what I might’ve done differently, etc.

Lmao, Moon Knight might be next

I agree with you, I think it is natural to romanticize the movies we grew up on to a certain degree, but this can blind us to the shortcomings of these films. I do believe that ROTJ, while I do still enjoy it, certainly is the weakest of the original trilogy. The temptation for Luke to fall to the Dark side could have been set up better in ROTJ, and this does lead to having an inconsistent portrayal of Luke throughout the film, where he is somehow an intelligent, calm, cool, and collected Jedi, yet also a bit of a hothead in other moments. Not that this couldn't have worked, but the film doesn't do quite enough to set up Luke's hot headedness and affinity for the dark side in my opinion. Now, all of this being said, I do still think ROTJ has the best conclusion to any Star Wars film, and when Luke throws his lightsaber to the ground and proclaims "I am a Jedi like my father before me" is an awesome moment, even if it was a bit of a clunky road to get there.

@@ScreenedStories Hey-thanks for the reply! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these things. I also wanted to talk about ROTJ Luke. First of all, both the script of ROTJ and the context in which it was written is fairly complex. From what I can recall, Rinzler (the Making of Return of the Jedi author/compiler), said that the writing team (Kasdan, Lucas, and Marquand, et al.) noticed that Vader's motivation that was developing for ROTJ (at/post revised 1st draft) seemed inconsistent to Vader's motivations in TESB, to which I agree. As the hero, Luke is supposed to connect with Vader in some fashion (a la Spiderman 2 with Peter Parker convincing Doc Oc to destroy the Fusion reactor) with his motivations, but I found the manner in which they were addressed in ROTJ to be borderline vague or relatively weak. (The best the film seems to do is have Luke say to Vader on the forest bridge: "let go of your hate", which implies, "let go of your hatred towards the rebel/the conflict". But it's never addressed directly (perhaps a result of Kasdan, the editor, snipping the dialogue/content a bit too much?). Nor are Vader's aspirations addressed, which seem to be to defer constantly to the Emperor in ROTJ when in TESB, you see Vader cleverly persuading the Emperor to have him turn Luke and having thoughts of overthrowing the Emperor, which are subdued/held back by what Vader thinks he had to have Luke do in ROTJ (turn to the dark side). All of this culminates to a head when we see Luke push and push for Vader to turn to the light side (despite saying that Vader has good in him, which seems a bit illogical to me). There is little grace nor love that Luke gives to Vader, aside for when Luke is saving himself from the dark side (an act of works/out of fear) through a (supposedly) compassionate act (though Luke also has little to no choice, according to Lucas, Luke will go to hell if he says yes to the Emperor after he strikes Vader down). The other scene where Luke does show love to Vader is when he consoles Vader after he throws the Emperor down the shaft and drags his body to one of the Imperial escape aircrafts. Even then, Luke is obsessed with saving Vader, afraid of Vader dying when his helmet will come off. It's reasonable to care for them and to not let them die... except Luke sort of forced Vader into it by tossing away his lightsaber and begging Vader to save him (which also refutes his dual stand and dare to the Emperor to kill him, "I am a Jedi, like my father before me"). If it's implied that Luke wants the Emperor to kill him or is dating him to do so in rebel fashion, then why beg for Vader to save him? It seems... actually quite manipulative of Luke to do so for Vader, even if it's to snap Vader out of his dark side funk. Yet Luke's stand is widely regarded as heroic by many fans though the context, both before and after that scene. But for me, it just don't seem as heroic or epic as many fans posit because ROTJ's script keen on emphasizing "the fear factor" that was originally brought up in TESB (which was more grounded and complicated there). The Emperor has to be scary and powerful at the end partially because the stakes have to raise, even if (that makes Luke look stupid earlier for being afraid of going to the dark side over being tempted to strike down an unarmed man). Luke begging for his father ("Father, please!") is a hand-me-down TESB phrase ("Ben, please!") also seen in a variation in the 1st rough draft of ROTJ. Ultimately, I don't blame the cast or crew for the scriptwriting of ROTJ, as they were simply making a film. I feel, however, as a script, there are a lot of parts that I disagree with.

@@theblindfoldedbirdwatcher570 I see what you’re saying about Luke’s sacrifice not being that heroic in the context of the script, I personally viewed Luke throwing his lightsaber to the ground as his way of refuting the dark side and rejecting the emperor, as he can’t strike his father down, nor the emperor himself if he is unarmed. Luke did not know that the emperor had the ability to shoot force lightning, nor did he really know the emperor’s power level at all for that matter, so it was certainly a naive move to throw his lightsaber to the ground, arguably stupid, though I don’t see it as manipulative or a ploy to get his father to turn to the light, I think if Luke knew the emperor was about to fry him to death he would’ve still said what he said, but held onto his lightsaber instead. Now, to go back to your point about Luke being inconsistently represented, I think this might be a key example of Luke’s overconfidence. To me, it is epic (not particularly heroic though) because of how the line is delivered, and the meaning behind it. Luke found himself in the exact position Vader was in, in the previous film, and rather than succumbing to the power of the dark side, he threw his weapon to the ground and refuted it, which I think certainly inspired his father to do the same. I think there is also a fair argument, that Luke, after having just felt a rush of power and emotions from the darkside while fighting and unarming his father, didn’t even want the temptation of being able to strike someone down, and threw his weapon to the ground to remove any possibility of striking someone down in hatred, again, naive based on what the emperor would go on to do to Luke, but not really an intentionally manipulative move on Luke’s part, I’d say it lacked foresight, and the script definitely could have done a better job at more consistently portraying Luke as a good willed, but naive character throughout ROTJ. I think if Luke was more consistently portrayed in this way, then the throwing of his blade to the ground would fit better. I also think that begging for his father to save his life is not really a manipulative thing, I think it is pretty natural for someone to ask for help when they’re on the verge of death, I mean, yes luke did cause the situation by throwing his blade to the ground, but given his still developing skills with a lightsaber, I’m not super confident in his abilities to consistently block force lightning from Palpatine with his weapon in hand either. I do agree that the script could have and probably should have developed a stronger connection between Luke and Vader, maybe having them telepathically communicating throughout the film here and there through the force could have been a useful addition, but the general connection between the two, I always viewed as being their familial bond as father and son. Despite the distance between the two and the lack of a pre-existing relationship, Vader was the only family Luke had left besides Leia, and given that he could sense the conflict of emotions within Vader, I think that bond went both ways. Even despite having his hand cut off by him, he is still his father, so I think that naturally creates a want and desire to see him be well. I agree with you largely on ROTJ being a bit weak in the script department, I think the Jabba’s palace segment was especially long and should have been trimmed down to give more time to set up the Luke, Vader, Emperor angle, which was the most interesting part of the film by far and could’ve been even better with more time and development.

I see what you’re saying, and yes I do think that pulling the lines out of context makes them funnier or feel more bizarre and out there, but even in context I think some of his dialogue is a little over the top at times, and I do find myself wishing that the script was more subtle and less shakespearean, but that’s just my perspective

@@ScreenedStories You tell me original trilogy was not over the top, nerf herder

@@LyinkKralonMP_UAsoviet I think there’s certainly moments of the dialogue being over the top in the original trilogy, Luke screaming no after the Vader reveal comes to mind immediately off the top of my head, but they’re certainly less so, the nerf herder line is a bit over the top but it’s also meant to be a funny line, where as most of the memed lines from the prequels weren’t meant to be humorous, though again, pulling them out of context does play a role in that for sure

No worries, I largely agree with you, I’m actually dropping a “Count Dooku had potential…” themed video next week because I think he was a huge missed opportunity, and I really think he could’ve been used as an interesting third party trying to walk a balance between the dark and light side, struggling to find some kind of balance in his life after the tragic loss of his padawan. I also think the fact that we not only don’t see Dooku in episode 1, but he’s absent from episode 2 for over half of the runtime, and then dies in like the first 30 minutes of episode 3 was a bizarre creative choice, that didn’t really allow us to connect with the character properly, with more screen time and better development, his death could’ve been really tragic! And yeah, Anakin’s fall is an intrinsically interesting story, the idea of the chosen one falling to the dark side and turning his back on the light is phenomenal… but the way we got to his ultimate fall was definitely a bit clunky and could’ve been set up smoother in my opinion, and yeah the age difference in episode 1 between Padme is another weird creative decision! Overall, I think your conclusion is pretty on the nose, I find the prequels to be fun and highly watchable, but I do also find myself scratching my head a bit at certain creative decisions, and think the final product isn’t the best version of what these movies could’ve been

@@ScreenedStories Thanks, glad you enjoyed my enormous megapost. Having thought more about it though, I do have to recognize they were more than a bit hamstrung by the fact that they had a hard time limit (three movies) to tell the entire story of the clone wars, the rise of the Empire, and Anakin's fall and that the ending was basically already dictated to them due to the existence of the original trilogy, so they had no choice but to make sure everything lined up with canon. By the end of the third move alot of things had to happen. The war had to end. Everyone not in the original movies had to die. All the Jedi except for Obi-Wan and Yoda had to die along with Dooku, Grievous, Padme, the Seperatists, etc. The CIS had to be gone. The republic had to be destroyed and turned into a Sith Empire, Palpatine had to fully become "The Emperor", Anakin had to fall and become Vader and the suit had to be explained. His kids had to be split up and sent into hiding. So much HAD to be done by the end of the prequal trilogy. The problem was, as of Revenge of the Sith none of these things had happened yet, so they basically had 3 hours to end the clone wars and transition completely form the prequal era to basically the state of the galaxy as of A New Hope. It was a tall ask, and to their credit they did a decent job of it.

@@exorphitus I agree with you, I did briefly mention the time restriction of telling this massive story in just three films, and I do think that partially is the issue they faced, but I think episode 1 being so detached from the rest of the trilogy and honestly having a lot of filler set up for the clone wars was a big misstep, if they had just started episode 1 at the beginning of the clone wars, with a padawan Anakin, and just gave context clues as to what started the war throughout the film, I think then having three films to tell the story of the clone wars, the fall of the Jedi, and Anakin’s turn, would have been a lot easier on them, so yes I do think the limit of only having three movies to tell this massive story was a handicap, but I also think George made it more of a handicap than it needed to be if that makes sense, though you are right he did ultimately do a decent job at bringing everything together with Revenge of the Sith

@@ScreenedStories True. Phantom Menace felt almost like the first part of an entirely different story. I get that George wanted to show us Anakin being found and the events that put Palpatine in power, but those events had an entirely different tone to the other two movies. If instead we had an older Anakin being found at the beginning of the Clone Wars it would make sense why the Jedi would make an exception for him for his age. They need to get the Chosen One trained because of the impending war. Instead Phantom Menace was more of a distant prelude to everything else and you probably could have made a prequal prequal trilogy out of everything we weren't shown about Anakin's training between TPM and AotC. Instead we got a huge time skip and Anakin in the 2nd and 3rd movies seemed to be an entirely different person in both appearance and personality to the young Anakin of the first movie. This is probably due to George not having yet figured out exactly the story he wanted to tell. Phantom Menace was very much made to be a kid friendly movie what with all the humor and silly Jar Jar antics. Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith were far more serious in tone and it's telling how Jar Jar basically got written out of the series after TPM except for a handful of lines. Suddenly he no longer fit the tone of the story. George clearly didn't go in with a clear idea of the story he was telling and it's obvious he decided to make a hard shift between TPM and AoTC. Hindsight is 2020 though. It's easy for us to sit here 25 years later and pick these movies apart. At the time though, he had massive expectations to live up to and did so well enough that alot of people love these films.

@@exorphitus I think you make some great points, I do think that there was a little lack of foresight from George Lucas with the Phantom Menace and too much childish humor, perhaps influenced by the success of ROTJ which was far more kid friendly than Empire was, but at the end of the day phantom menace is responsible for a good amount of the lore that fueled some of the best storylines in the clone wars show, and it is kind of hard to separate them from each other since they intertwine so heavily, which I do think impacts fan opinion on the prequels, and to a certain degree if you’re gonna criticize his lack of foresight, you always have to credit the general ideas and lore that he birthed from the prequels, so even though the movies do have poor execution at points, I do give George immense credit for the world building and lore he conceptualized here, as a whole, the prequel era is perhaps the most fascinating time period in the Star Wars franchise

So if we have a dinner plate in front of us, where half of the plate is delicious mac and cheese, and the other half is a pile of dog shit, we should still love all of it?

@@jonnyo9193 I think your comment illustrates the negativity I was referring to. If the entire plate is a jumbled, chaotic, yet loveable mess, yes I think I love all of it. None of it is decidedly and definitively a pile of dog shit and I hope you find the time to look at things a little more positive. The Original trilogy was unplanned and controvertial, now classics. The prequels were poorly written and underdeveloped, now beloved by those who grew up with them. The sequels are half baked and lack overarching meaning, someday they will be classics too and you'll still be butthurt.

@@jonnyo9193 I see what you’re saying, I mean yeah I think it’s natural to point out flaws within a film when you see them, which is why I think the initial reaction to the prequel trilogy, and current reaction to the sequels is generally negative, but I also think it’s okay to like something even if you know it’s not great, like the live-action Cat in the Hat is a dog shit movie, but I do really enjoy watching the chaos unfold on screen, definitely doesn’t mean I think it’s a great Oscar worthy movie, but I enjoy it all the same

@@BriceReviews Rise of skywalker is in fact dog shit. It throws out even the misguided decisions of the sequel trilogy for a quarterbaked bad ripoff of Dark Empire.

@@JaxRiens I agree with you on that! Rise of Skywalker is a dogshit movie that I don’t really get any enjoyment out of