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Hey thank you for the comment! Spell Block is a very good talent, but I like faster access to Last Stand a lot and don't want to give that up unless I'm sure it's needed. I'm sure there will be situations where Spell Block will really shine though.

I do plan to play both! :)

All of the warrior/class related stuff is Luxthos's weakauras. You can find it all on his site :)

I definitely see where you're coming from and that's a very good point about Sac's usability. I'm hoping Paladin does get some buffs to bring it up to the rest of the tanks.

I cannot take credit for creating this, it's a weakaura that integrates with DBM and/or BigWigs: wago.io/RaidAbilityTimeline HIGHLY recommend it!

Aaaaaw yeah!

Yeah loved seeing that! I definitely picked based on fun, but I won't complain about tuning being good for Prot :)

Warriors are always top at the beginning of the expansion and then fall to the worst later in the xpac. Been like that for the last 3-4 expansions.

@@stetsons222 Is that true? They were insane at the end of BFA, SL season 1 was dominated by DHs for the kite meta and DF season 1 was mostly prot paladins. I don't think warriors are ever terrible, but I'm not sure I've noticed them starting on top and ending on the bottom

Ok that's just objectively untrue. It's been a long time since Brew was the best or in the meta, but people get the M+ title on it pretty much every season and it's a regular feature in world first raiding.

Thank you for the comment! I'd say Guardian's HPS/self-sustain is in a "good, not great" place. Bear is not going to live forever on its own like a Blood DK still can, but it's got enough to not need much attention from the healer if played decently well--at least that's how it feels to me when I'm playing it.

Right on!

Yes! It's this one: wago.io/RaidAbilityTimeline I did not created it but it's an invaluable tool as a raid leader (and just extremely useful for anyone tracking enemy abilities). It does require either DBM or BigWigs--in this case DBM Dungeons.

Agreed!

I don't think VDH being the best tank is a guarantee right now, there's a lot of VERY strong melee specs that would benefit more from a Prot Warrior. We'll see how final tuning goes, I hope it's not another VDH + Mage + Aug season at the top end!

@@ThordrenekGaming y i hope to

Thank you for the comment! I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. With current tuning the raid buffs are a big consideration, but we've seen seasons in the past where a no-raid-buff tank was meta due to other reasons--Prot Paladin in DF season 1 and Blood DK in SL Seasons 3-4 being the major examples. Guardian was meta in DF season 2 due to its tier set being OP, not due to MotW. And I think most people would argue that VDH was meta in season 3-4 mainly because of its insane control. Raid buffs can be a tipping point when things are very well balanced, but the broader discussion of how each tank is doing definitely has merit.

@@ThordrenekGaming Im always talking about this topic assuming the balance is more or less equal. You would always pick the tank with the buff in that case. Chaos brand is a bigger outlier than MotW since its dmg is multiplicative not additive. If you ever played any ARPG you know how this scaling works out. And its value gets even higher the more other buffs you stack. Thats why the exodia comp will always be meta asuming a level balance otherwise.

@@normannseils3936 I understand multiplicative scaling but MotW also provides some (albeit very small) defensive value, which should not be overlooked in cutting edge level keys. That's not exactly the level this tier list is mostly aiming for though. I also don't think the exodia comp is guaranteed to be the meta for another season. It could be, but Aug's damage has been significantly nerfed in TWW and Blizzard has been making adjustments to make the timer a more relevant factor vs. being able to survive 1-shots, so it may actually be difficult to time very high keys with an Aug even with few or no big mistakes during the run. At the end of the day I do think tank balance is in a pretty good spot and for the overwhelming majority of players tank choice should come down to what you enjoy playing the most rather than what raid buff you bring, at least as a primary consideration.

@@ThordrenekGaming thats why you have a resto druid in exodia comp :D and the goal of the exodia comp is to amplify the damage so much that the endresult is higher than a non-synergystic comp, hence the name. And you get the additonal benefit of having a highly defensive comp. As i said, i dont argue about anything but the highest keys, if you are not running cutting edge keys, none of this optimizing matters, quite the opposite, if you are not running exactly "exodia" or executing the gameplan correctly it even worse than running a well mixed comp of people who play their call better.

@@normannseils3936 All fair points! Thank you for the comments!

Preservation and Resto Shaman are also looking very strong, I think the healer meta is definitely not sorted yet and if we end up with a melee meta--which seems like a realistic possibility based on current tuning--then something like Prot Warrior + Resto Shaman could be a VERY strong combo. Thanks for the comment and input!

@@ThordrenekGaming Would be great to have melee again in the meta. But think prot warri lacks too much in massive aoe controls and group support.

You can’t get „non-hittable“ anymore. The chances are not additive, they are rolled sequentially starting with the highest value mitigation (parry). So only protwarrior with active shieldblock is the only tank that is unhittable like that. Regarding CC the tanks are pretty much on par, warrior has the best cc technically especially if you play Colossus. DH is the only tank that can do a cc „chain“. But shockwave has a 20 second cd on warrior so you can do it much more often. And you still have disruption shout, aoe fear and ST-Stun. I would argue that warrior is better than DH even. They also changed how cc works in dungeons, since you can never stop a ability from going off outside of kicks (they will just constantly try to recast them) cc chains don’t really work anymore. You’d rather have it more often. And you will not play the cheat death on DH since you loose way to much value if you play that talent.

@@Jo-Jo8vsProt warrior has arguably the best AOE CC now with 20 second Shockwave/knockup.

@@normannseils3936 I Don't think so, just one AOE; DH has chains, mass silence, masstun, mass fear, cage, and BDK, has mass grip, multiple single grips, entangling grip, pala shield, sry, when it comes to mass interrupts and cc, Warri is on the lower end. And Warri has to jump to the NPCs when BDK, DH and Pala just gather at one point. So, Warri is a pain for most casters.

Go ass for third dps or mm hunter all those classes are capped at 8 so you can do a spamming 8 or below group count and see your dps do insane damage while knowing that warrior buff is helping them mess stuff up 😁 go hard and live long zug zug brotha

Zug zug gang!

Cool to see you commenting here Faz, I’m a huge fan of your channel, been running your barbarian program and I’m also maining prot warrior 🤘🏻

@@dunkmasternightly9988 hey man! That's pretty cool! Thanks. Yeah I like Thors channel, chilled dude with good takes. Reminds me of myself but for wow, lol

This is a good point, though if you're playing a caster group I think Blood will still really shine. Thank you for the comment!

If you play caster comp you want VDH, or? :)

@@normannseils3936 At the highest keys. I rank BDK/Guardian as the best Pug tanks

@@jonlane6527 sure, but imagine you play a mage with a warlock friend. On any keylevel I would always invite the DH if all else is equal and none of the other tanks utility is needed. Just talking optimizing.

@@jonlane6527 I also wouldn’t rank guardian the best pug tank. It heavily emphasizes pulling big with incarn which asks a lot out of pug groups in terms of CC and defensivs. On normal size pulls Warrior for example is a much better tank.

Yeah Mountain Thane is going to shine in a lot of content I think. It's probably still my favorite Hero talent tree :)

Or just give us scrolls!

@@ThordrenekGaming This! I keep saying this everywhere. Just give us scrolls back

Hey thank you for the question! I'd say both VDH and Prot Warrior are in a similar spot as far as how easy they'd be for a new player to pick up, but they have different challenges. VDH's biggest challenge is going to be anticipating when you will need to kite to survive. Making good use of the control that Vengeance has gives it a good skill cap to aim for. Vengeance also has pretty strong self sustain compared to most of the other tanks too, which can feel really good once you get the hang of it. Prot Warrior on the other hand is incredibly tanky and pretty easy to survive with. The damage "rotation" is pretty easy too, but Prot has a very high APM (Actions Per Minute) which can be a challenge to pick up depending on what your gaming background looks like. Prot also has a lot of defensive CDs which can help you cover mistakes if you use them proactively. My recommendation to someone new to the game who wants to tank or new to tanking in general though would be Guardian Druid. I think a new player can succeed on any tank, but Guardian is the fastest to learn and simplest to play which can really help with learning the role and new content. Hope this is helpful! I've been thinking about making a video talking about the relative difficulty of each tank, let me know if you think that would be helpful!

@@ThordrenekGaming ty for the response! i was listening to ur video in the car and VDH seems fun, but ppl like Quazzi said its one of the harder tanks to pick up. i was between warr and DH cuz i like both their playstyle

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!

On the thumbnail? That's the Dragonflight Season 1 tier set, specifically the Mythic variation. Thanks for the comment! :)

@@ThordrenekGaming Hey, I was referring to the set on the Dwarf character. But you hovered over it in one of your videos :D seems to be War Within set ;)

@@TobiasWVolledal Ah gotcha, sorry for the misunderstanding! Yeah it's the season 1 set for TWW :)

I'm guessing you mean the addon that calls out mechanics? That's Deadly Boss Mods (here it's the dungeon version, which is needed in addition to the standard version for dungeon content). The scrolling timeline is a weakaura that replaces the default DBM/BigWigs timers: wago.io/RaidAbilityTimeline I find this weakaura invaluable as a raid leader!

@@ThordrenekGaming Thanks. I have a voice addon that just says things like "front" and "CC". Yours has more variety and detail with the voice callouts which I like. Is it just DBM and the Dungeon DBM to get those voice callouts?

@@kethlock117 Yep just DBM!

Bless up!

CATWEAVE

Thanks for the suggestion! That comparison might merit its own video, maybe comparing several different tanks in the same key/level. It's hard to do a good 1:1 comparison though even for the same class. Keys are really hard to complete on the beta right now (in PuGs at least) as a lot of people just bail at the first sign of trouble and having incomplete keys to look at can skew things a bit.

@@ThordrenekGaming I hear you. Just me needing out on the numbers, maybe I’ll take on the task when launch comes around. For warrior specifically though, I’m actually leaning towards the colossal tree. Being this crit dominant, extremely bursty tank sounds so dope. And with the skill itself lending an additional impairment immunity, as well as a potentially permanent DR & dmg output buff, uhhhh, so tough. One thing I’ve found interesting since getting back into the tanking scene, is how different the classes feel. For instance, with Dk, the amount of buttons they have makes openers & burst feel clunky, but with warrior, I just want all the buttons!!! Everything just feels so chunky!!! With the recent change to the ethos of tanking; less spikey dmg, more sustained intake, I wonder what metas will develop with hero talents. I.e more M.Thanes for prot warrior & San Layns for Dk, because they smooth out resource gen & are lighter on rotational adjustments. Sorry for the essay, I just love the theory crafting behind tanking.

@@surin9030 Thank you for the detailed comment! I love chatting about all this stuff :) I really like that most of the tank hero talents offer distinct playstyles and I think I'll be using them all at different points as I play through the tanks. Agree that the tanks feel very different for the most part, it's nice to have that variety when playing the same content on different classes.

@@ThordrenekGaming completely agree, and I really do appreciate that getting into the nitpicky finer details doesn’t annoy you. As tanks, I feel like the minutia is what we nerd out on, both defensively and offensively. Moreover, your point on the hero talents brining diversity I completely feel as well. As someone who doesn’t have an interest in anything other than tanking, it offers that little bit of diversity that keeps the game interesting. Hoping to hit keystone & delve master for every season moving forward. You put any thought into an alt choice yet?

@@surin9030 I hear you on all of that! My primary alt is gonna be Blood DK and then I'll be working on Brewmaster and Guardian with what time I have leftover. I may dabble with a DPS or healer alt depending on what my guild needs, and if I want to play with people from the channel having a non-tank character would probably be good :)

It really is a beautiful thing!

The rage generation for Mountain Thane definitely feels great! It's probably my preferred tree for the same reason but Colossus is very fun too.

@@ThordrenekGaming Colossus is more fun to play. I'll deff go Colossus for solo content.

Demolish is sick, especially when you can stack a bunch of damage amps with it!

That's totally fair! Prot already has a lot going on haha

With you there. Boss mechanics and callouts already keep me on my toes. I don't need more complications. 😅

Why thank you!

If anyone can hake that work it's you!

I think this is a good point in general, but some of the casts that are dangerous are not interruptible so kick CD may not have as big of an impact in every dungeon. The big combo that everyone points to is Mage + Aug Evoker for a few reasons: they buff each other, they both buff the healer, and they both have (generally) strong defensive toolkits. There's some flexibility with the third DPS but if you can bring a caster that's going to benefit from Arcane Intellect, that synergy can be hard to beat. That being said, it's not really important to stack that synergy outside of push keys or at least 12s with the new affixes. All tanks should be perfectly viable up to there at least.

Those are my top two, both great choices IMO!

Bear is the most boring spec I've played in this game. Slowly gallop in, put up moonfire thrash and spam iron fur. I got bored within 15 minutes. Prot warrior all the way! You can't even see your gear as the bear, it sucks. Boring in every department really haha.

Agreed!

Pretty good! Hope you're doing well!

It's just such a cool weapon mog :)

It's a weakaura: wago.io/EfIy3LbVH Thanks for the comment!

@@ThordrenekGaming thank you for the reply

Thank you for the insights! Expectations and qualifications definitely get much tighter as you go higher in score.

Yeah low keys this is all less important for sure. This video was targeted at people pushing into harder keys--whatever level that may be for people.

Thanks!

It really is hard to overstate how valuable communication is. Thanks for the comment!