11 Shotgun Hunting Myths BUSTED
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- Whether you are hunting ducks, turkeys, or pheasants, there are lots of shotgun myths that can lead you to make ineffective decisions in the woods. I tackle big questions like: What is the best shotgun gauge? Is a 20 gauge just as powerful as a 12 gauge? Does shot string matter for hunting? Was lead waterfowl hunting ammo really better than today's steel, bismuth, TSS or tungsten blends? Do you aim or point a shotgun? Is lead shot really poisoning the environment? Are 3.5" shells really better? How much does velocity matter? Do ported choke tubes reduce recoil or improve patterns?
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To answer these questions and bust these myths I draw from dozens of ballistics gel tests, pattern tests, recoil tests, and hundreds of hours of research. This information can equip you to be a better hunter and a better shotgun shooter. #shotgun #duckhunting #turkeyhunting
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George , I’m so glad to listen to a person( hunter ) that knows what he is talking about and backed it up with proof positive by extensive testing. Yes George I am subscribed ever since I found your channel. 3 years at least. 👍👍👍🙏🏽🇺🇸✌🏻😎
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the long term support!
Your videos check off all the boxes. Looking forward to seeing the next one.
Thank you so much!
You are spot on - a 20 gauge is no match for a 12.
A 12 is also no match for a 10 :D
You should try one...
I'm good. I don't hunt anything, at least right now, that would warrant the firepower. But maybe someday.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide 10 gauge’s are for S’s and G’s.
15:44 Phew! Glad my super x steel at 1350 is considered “lower” velocity. I thought he was talking about me.
what did you say? I had to turn it up... yes well said ... I have few of the 10, 12, 16, 20, 410's lol love them all at the right time... great video ... agreed 100 percent , (after I turned up the volume lol). well done
Thank you!
The imagination of basement-dwellers amazes me. Hadn't heard of some of these myths, but you are absolutely correct. You even induced me to subscribe!
Haha, thank you so much!
Preach it George! Another Great video! 👍 keep em coming!
Thank you so much!
‘I love shot string”…, Brick are you just looking around and saying that you love stuff? “I love lamp”…. lol. Great channel George, always great stuff.
HAHA great reference! Thanks so much!
Brother,,,,everything you said was bang on,,,,,i been subscribed more than a year,,,keep em pumpin out(vids)im a life time subscriber,,,love the vids brother,,,lookin forward to next one
Thank you so much!!!
Another good video George. I especially like your marketing myth busters, e.g. velocity, shot string, ported muzzles, etc. keep on busting those myths with testing, data and critical thinking. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much!
A pair of Tetras and a Mossberg 940 Pro is the same price as just a Benelli SBE3 or Beretta A400 by itself. Personally i'd rather have the Tetras and a 940 with an incredible pattern then a Super Black Eagle 3.
People can have all of the above! I just think people should prioritize their ears first, and get the fancy shotgun later.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
You hit the nail on the head on every myth.
Thank you so much!
Man that was a lot lol thank you for another great video George God bless you and go get them in the marsh
Thanks so much Jeff!
I am just overwhelmed to watch this and subscribe now. Great videos, realistic information. I have watched many Utube chanels. But this is different. Thank you. I shall always follow you.
Wow, thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Awesome video sir! I have a few questions for you regarding turkey loads. I’m planning to go out Saturday to try and get a bird. My dad picked up a box of Remington Nitro turkey and I was wandering your opinion on them. They are the 3.5” 2 oz #5. I’ve watched many patterning videos on them and they just don’t seem to be that good. I want to be lethal out to 45 yards. For my setup, I’m running a browning maxus II ultimate with a Carlson’s .680 turkey choke. I was just wandering if you think I will be ok using this out to 40-45 yards. Thanks!
That choke is fine, but I have never had Nitros pattern for anything. I would never use them. I'd probably go with 7.5 target loads first. Winchester Long Beard XR is the best most consistently effective lead load on the market I've seen. You can't go wrong with that. Works in any choke. I recommend 3" #5s or #6s. 3.5 is fine if it's all you can find and your gun shoots it.
I have gone to sub gauge shotguns just because I enjoy it more. It has taught me let birds work, taught me to cover up better, and I like the challenge. All on public land. I use my 20 and 28 gauge about 50/50 of the season. Have not touched a 12 gauge in 2 years.
Nice!
Funny... absolutely people shot magnums in the 50's on up... some upland hunters used game loads. Duck and goose hunter were shoot hi power or magnums Rem Exp 3" 4 1/4 D- 1 5/8 - 6's... Good videos...👍👍
Yea, people certain have done just about everything that could be done. But I'm focusing on trends. Diehards are few in number compared to masses. That's always been fairly true. It's probably even more true today
“That’s not one of the 11 that’s just a bonus for you” 😂😂😂
I live to give!
Good information and I think you are correct. Years ago we had a Turkey shoot in our family with several people participating. That said the only thing that ever won it was a 3” 12 gauge. There was no 10 gauges entered but there was 3-1/2 inch 12 gauges. We was shooting Turkey target or paper plates at 30 yards. That might have been different if you was measuring 30” circles. Just what I’ve seen. You’re mileage may vary 🤷🏽♂️
Your mileage may vary, well said!
I think there are only two reasons not to use a 12 gauge. Noise and recoil. Which may or may not be a dealbreaker.
There are others. Many 20s weigh 5 pounds. If you are hiking 10 miles a day looking for turkeys, that lighter guns make a big difference. And there are 20 ga tss loads with 2 oz of shot. Many 12 loads don't have that. In that scenario a 20 may be the best option for someone. If you are hunting ducks in flooded timer, you might have to walk a while too, a 20 with #5 bismuth may be more than ample at less weight for close range shooting.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide i didn’t think about weight. Makes sense. I have some 1 3/4 oz tss loads but never tried them. The 1 ounce wolframs from Boss look good. TSS is dense enough to hold that high velocity, curious what kind of terminal ballistics it has at range with 1500 fps muzzle velocity.
Good video
Thanks!
Hey George I am one of those 16guage lovers and after 45 years + of waterfowl hunting, I’m just as successful as I was when my belief of having a 12 was the only way to go 😂😂. As I post this I can also say that with the new bismuth I have been downing ducks and geese with my 16 AND my 28 just as much as my old 12.
Another thing I must add is that the 2 3/4 16 and 28 guage are performing better than the 3”.
I really appreciate you addressing the speed and pattern quality issue.
I have Not a single shotgun that can pattern anything faster than 1450fps. Any guage. Actually the best speed has been and continues to be 1200-1450 fps. People would know this if they would just pattern their own shotguns instead of relying on media hype 😮. People, do the work!
Thank you so much! I am a big 16-gauge fan. The only reason it's not still the most popular bore is marketing and the lead ban of 91. You didn't need more than that to shoot a duck before. Then they started pushing the 12 and invented the 3.5" to sell more expensive shells. Modern ammo lets us go back to making sensible decisions once again.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I couldn’t have said it any better 👍🏻👍🏻 😀. Actually the more people that fall victim to the hype are actually leaving more birds for you and I😉. Unfortunately with these stupid fast loads that cannot perform well…I believe that there are more cripples than when steel first came out 🤷🏼♂️😞
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I would love to see some 28guage videos. Not many people out there that would address that!
All it is, is common sense. A 410 with tss could and would humble a 10 guage fan shooting steel!
@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk I want to get a 28, but I'll probably go with a 20 first and work my day there in time.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Quite honestly I don’t think any of it matters all that much. If you’re comfortable with the gun that usually means you can hit things with it confidently It’s mostly about the type of hunting you are doing. M O. High flying snows I believe I would use an extremely high payload. Jump shooting ducks-anything would work-Pass shooting….. what is your skill level?? All around, I would still like to be shooting my 16🙂
Ωραίος ο Γιωργάκης, σωστός και μοιάζει με μας Ελληνόφατσα 🤩
I use hearing protection for everything except Turkey. Got to have directional hearing for turkeys which isn’t possible with sound boosting hearing protection, it will make you hear them better but you can’t tell the direction and actual distance with them on. Luckily with turkey hunting it’s just a few shots a year, if I’m lucky.
I have directional hearing with the Tetras. It's one of the main reasons I got them. But you're right, it's one of the lowest risk hunts. I would be sure not to use a ported choke if you're hunting without ear protection though.
My MSA Sordins Pro X I can tell direction perfect. Use them for everything. Have hear foxes running into predator calls before with them. Can hear doves flying in. Can hear turkey direction super easy.
@@stewartw7248 Those sound like a great mid-level over the ear option.
This man talks too much but talks good and technical tested truths.
Greetings from Turkiye 😉
How 10 gauge versus 12 gauge?
10 is going to be heavier, more expensive, and provide far more than you need for hunting most game with modern ammo. It has its place. But I would find much more use for a 12 and a 20.
Is the downrange performance @50 yds of the individual pellets different between different shot sizes (#2 vs #6 bismuth)?
Yup. The larger the pellets the higher the ballistic energy and the higher the retained velocity at range, which also increases energy.
Higher the velocity worse the pattern.
Yup! Generally speaking.
I gave up telling my hunting friends (no all) about velocity and speed. They can figure out that it is a physics law and they Klingon to their 1700FPS junk. I just merrily shoot 2 3/4 steel at the slowest speed I can buy and know down birds. this year I plan to reload Bismuth at 1200 FPS.
I have always liked Kent shells. Used No 4s last year with a Muller Decoy choke and a Beretta A400 Plus. Very very few cripples. Stone dead.
Thanks I will. We do a lot of upland also so good suggestion.
Man, spell check tortured my comment.
Thank you for stating publicly that shot string doesn’t matter! I absolutely 👍 agree
I almost made a whole video on the subject, but I thought it would be counterproductive, it's just not worth it lol.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I still don’t understand how anyone can still bring up shot string after seeing the surviving duck season footage… I see it all the time.
@@FirePirate099 yea, it's totally case closed.
I own a 10 ga and even a hot 12 ga load isn't close. 12 ga is hotter than a 20 ga at any distance due to pay load . You can split the difference with a 16 ga. Though Bismuth and TSS may eclipse the lead loads of old, the $10.99 a box lead vs $60 for Bismuth and more for TSS is a factor.
The great Nash Buckingham used a Fox Sterlingworth 30 inch SxS choked full and extra full . His loads was 12 ga 2.75 inch #5 lead with 1 1/4 oz of shot at 1250 fps. He killed ducks in the 40's and 50's by the dump truck load with that combo at 40-50 yards .
Yea. Modern ammo is not in any way cheaper. That's for sure.
They were the good old days because I could buy ammunition without going broke.
That's fair!
My top old fashioned duck load was 12ga 1 1/4 oz #4 shot lead. Was much better than #6
I don't believe that a very fast shotgun shell works the same as some slower shotgun shell on the game at the same distance. I tried slow S&B Red and Black paper shells on big crows, I used 3mm shells and if I shoot and hit that bird at 40 yards in the air, I saw that just a few feathers fall of and that bird flies away and If I use the same shell with the same number of pellets and the same size of pellets but with a little bit more speed, those crows are allways dead after first shot. I don't know if those shells are too slow or what? On the target I have similar patern result at 30 yards with faster loads and with slower loads. I don't know what can be result of this, but I am not so happy with S&B Red and Black ammo, I use Italian RC or B&P and they are somehow faster even with the same number of pellets like S&B, but also I can feel a little bit more recoil also with them, than with S&B. Strange, but I wote for more speed, of course if your gun makes some good patern at the ranges that you are shooting, otherwise you don't need strong kick in your shoulder with a miss after that.
The principle is steel has so little density that it loses all its effective velocity by 40 yard line no matter how fast it started. It's like a wiffle ball. Starting velocity matters more with denser metals.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Okay, I was talking here about lead, because I am from Eastern Europe and I never tried something else, I don't even know how steel shot looks like 😂 (you can't buy them in gun stores, because nobody use that), nice video as allways. We don't have anything except lead, 3 inch magnum loads or 2 3/4 inch, the best shotgun shells that you can find in Europe, we have them, usually they are from Italy, like RC or Bascierri Pellagri. I tried a lot of them and after few shots, shotgun barrel stays very clean and shells are very fast, but like I said, it is all lead. I have very nice B&P slugs with teflon coating and they are just anwesome, also grup size is very nice and powder burns easy, almost completely, so there is no junk inside of barrel. I will use lead a lot of years I think before they change something..
Thanks for the video!
Another myth is that you’re not the best hunting CZcamsr
Haha, you are too kind, but there are lots of great folks there.
Hell, I’ve got free earplugs coming off my toilet roll in the form of TP,🤣 seriously there’s no excuse for not using some form of ear protection, and the truth of it toilet paper works fairly decent. However, seriously, I do have decent ear protection that cuts off the loud sound of the gun blast. I started using ear protection after I lost a lot of my hearing from guess what? too much boom boom!
Yea, it is too easy and cheap to not use something! I tell people all the time, start where you are, with what you have or can afford and you can always work your way up to something better.
I never go into the woods without some EP.
@@taylorharbin3948 Good!
@@TheNewHuntersGuideMaybe some day I can get a silencer for mine. I don’t like having to wear EP. I miss the natural ambiance.
Any chance you’ll talk about silencers in the future?
A ounce of lead at 1300 fps. Is the same no matter what ga. Launches it
Yes!
4ga is best
Except recoil and cost and weight... just brutal power
Density - Hevi-Steel = 7.8 g/cc, Hevi-Bismuth = 9.6 g/cc, Lead = 11.35 g/cc, Hevi-13 = 12 g/cc, TSS = 18 g/cc, Tungsten metal = 19.28 g/cc. Let's be honest here - When lead shot was first banned for migratory birds, hunters were forced to use steel loads. The drop in density was significant. Loads have improved in recent years, but even today's Bismuth loads are nothing special to write home about. TSS is obviously superior to lead, but it also comes at an extreme cost. A turkey hunter who may shoot a few rounds per year may look at the cost differently than someone who is a duck/goose hunter. A turkey hunter may buy a box of 5 TSS rounds & be set for the season. A duck/goose hunter may go through a case or more of shells. I don't buy marketing hype, but it's quite apparent TSS loads took quite a leap over lead, copper-plated lead, and hevi-13 loads.
Yes. But if you look at the ballistics of say 1.5 oz of bismuth 5s at 1350 fps vs 1 1/8oz of lead 6s at 1100 fps, the bismuth provides equal or in some ways better overall results at reasonable hunting ranges. The modern waterfowl hunter is not at a disadvantage to the average pre 91 hunter. Though they will have to pay more for it. And if they pay enough to get tss, they can do better than anyone ever did lol.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide You are all over the place in this presentation. You just justified Bismuth by its increase in velocity, but you slam increased velocity in your presentation. You also just justified using a larger payload of Bismuth even though you somewhat slammed larger payloads. It's like the world must revolve around your new Mossberg 940 shotgun. 20 gauge can't compete with 12 gauge, 3.5" loads aren't as good as 3" loads, etc... It's how it all comes across to me, even though I agree with some of it. I would get past all that if I were you. For example, your viewers may embrace the more affordable Herter's TSS payloads for turkeys. 12 gauge & 20 gauge Herter's TSS payloads are the same 1.5 oz of TSS going 1,200 fps. It's only offered in 2.75" 12 gauge & 3" 20 gauge, but it bridges a gap between lead loads & more expensive larger TSS loads. The real joy, however, is that someone who owns a 12 or 20 gauge doesn't need a new gun to shoot them. Performance & value is key. Claiming my 12 gauge shooting 3' load is king isn't as helpful.
@@driftlesshunter9200 I think you are reading something into this that isn't there. I use what I use because it works best for my hunting style, situations, and circumstances. 3.5" shells are generally a con, which is why when I did my last gun upgrade I didn't care enough to get a gun that could use them because they had no value to me. I bought the 940 because I didn't need a 3.5" gun. I didn't invent an anti 3.5" doctrine to justify my gun purchase. I could have gotten any gun I wanted.
I gave the Herters TSS a strong endorsement in my test video, it punched above its weight class and was the best price load providing more than adequate performance.
I don't use a 20gauge because much of hunting is jump shooting and I appreciate the benefits the 12 brings to the table for shots at the fringes of max range. Though I am eyeing a 20gauge right now to get for turkey and waterfowl use. I teach 2.75" shells are generally better for most people, because they are, but buffered 3" shells are a specialty item and are ideal for my specific style of hunting so I more often use those.
Steel ammo doesn't retain it's velocity which is why adding more does nothing. Bismuth retains velocity much better and you can speed it up as fast as it will go before it sees pattern degradation, which is usually around 1400. Which just so pattens to be enough to rival the 1100 fps lead of pre-91 days. Generally speaking more payload hurts pattern efficiency after a point, except with buffered shot. Really its not just about the amount of shot but the length of the shot column that causes the issues. Buffering largely solves that, and I have an entire video on the subject coming soon.
These points are not random, disjointed, or conflicting. I just didn't want to make a 90 minute video getting into the weeds on each of them. I've already made almost 200 videos with all the details, going all the way into the weeds. Those are available. This video was meant to be a synthesis to provide some of that info at a high level without dragging everyone through a dawn of time explanation for each point with all its caveats and nuances.
Just thought I’d let you know that I was surfing around trying to find some specific ballistics data and your videos / channel kept popping up. I’ve already seen them but I thought that was pretty cool
Thanks for letting me know!
This is only the second video of yours that I have watched and I have to say I'm impressed.. Also have to say when I found this video I thought, ok hear we go, just what I thought ,another airegent yung buck that thinks he knows it all , and isn't old enough to be trying to tell anyone else how to , what to ,when to , or this is true or this is a myth ,but I have to say that I agreed with everything you said in this video.. I thought, wow this guy know what he's talking about...And this is coming from a guy that has hunted for almost 60 years and has taken lots of game over the years with lots of shotguns so I think you know your what your talking about..👍 subscribed
Wow, thank you so much! I really appreciate it. It's an honor.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide 👍 there is just one thing I have to correct you on 😁 BBs are actually steel not copper, just copper plated , they will stick to a magnet...👍✌️ great stuff,liking your videos
@@Timbermonkey360-em4th As in the BBs you buy for 10 pump BB gun?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide yes, on the Crossman pump BB gun on the cocking mechanism when you pull it back to recock to chamber a BB if you look when the BB is in position it is held by a magnetic pin.. It's all good, I was just picking at you about the BB ✌️
@@Timbermonkey360-em4th huh, I never knew that.
So I’m not a smart individual an need help on this one I’ve tried find videos on it and can’t. If a 20 is shooting the same fps as a 12 how is there much of a difference in them?
If velocity is equal, a 12 gauge has about 30% more max payload capacity. Maybe even a little more. But that's max. Often the difference in closer to half that. And the hottest 20 is equal to the lightest 12. But the short is, a 12 has about 30% more capacity than a 20, though the difference isn't always that high.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide thank you
yay
A 3 inch 20 is a 2 3/4 inch 16.
Both are baby 12 loads
Yes!
Very sad video, not once was the 10 gauge mentioned, why not they are still manufactured
It's a specialty gun that is outside what most hunters will ever use or relate to. And the video was already too long lol
Ok I went back and watched the videos posted by Surviving Duck Season. So shooting at a stationary target like a turkey…shot string doesn’t matter. When you are shooting a moving target shot string matters. The math does not take into to account barrel speed. How fast that gun moves affects the pattern. It can widen the pattern. As such shot string and density of the pattern matter a great deal. Distance, shot type, choke all matter. Pattern your gun. Find a combo that works and stick with it.
You have to practice to be good. Thus lead shot. It’s cost prohibitive to practice with steel or any other non-toxic shells. I remember duck hunting before 91. Lead was sufficient to kill any duck. It killed better than steel. Fewer cripples. But we knew our guns. oh yeah, we all shot fixed choke barrels. Fixed chokes throw the best patterns (usually). Also, I’ve never seen shot in the gullet of the duck. Never met anyone who has. I’m sure some internet hero will correct me.
Good luck hunting
Go through the last 10 minutes of this video if you haven't czcams.com/video/r-MHcpMgPsg/video.html& The max variation on shot string relative to a fast flying passing bird at range is so minimal that it's beyond the functional capacity of human timing or precision to help or hurt a shot. When calculating the speed of a passing bird with the speed of the pellets and the time it takes the string to pass, it is inconsequential for hunting scenarios.
Been hunting no plugs 64 years still hear as much of wife as I want to
As a sportsman, I'm gonna ask you to change the way you talk about this subject. I know of too many people from ages 25-70+ that have lost much or most of their hearing due to hunting with no ear protection. Some have hunted for 10 years, 20 years with no noteworthy loss of hearing and then the next shot left them mostly deaf in one ear and half deaf in the other. Often not being able to hear isn't their biggest issue, its the endless static and clicking they live with day and night, the tenitus that drives them crazy 24 hour a day. And middle-aged people with moderate or worse hearing loss are at 300% higher risk for Althamer's and dementia. This is a completely avoidable problem that should not be impacting the majority of shotgun hunters. Rifle hunters deal with some but shotgun hunters shoot lot more and are at greater risk. It can be solved for free. it can be solved better with a little money. But we have to stop taking it lightly and set a better example for people.
30 years for me. Can't say I haven't worn hearing protection, but 90% of the time I don't. I definetly have a ton of scar tissue in both ears. Can't blame it all on firearms though. I have also been a Martial Artist for 35 years. Myself, I am definetly going to get a small set to put in my ears from now on to keep my hearing which is luckily still great.
@@eduffy4937 seems the attempt at humor whent unappreciated
Brilliant
So is duck hunting and turkey ammo different cause I watch your video on the lies about tungsten turkey loads, and you said it was all a marketing ploy to get us to spend more money but here you are saying tungsten duck load are better then lead shot
TSS ammo is the best for hunting everything, its also cost prohibitive for many things. But the point was there are many waterfowl loads that put "Tungsten" on the box but they are not TSS. They are some tungsten mix, blend, alloy, etc. Often with density lower than lead. They charge you more but don't give you much performance. Those are a scam. TSS at 18 g/cc is amazing but it often just costs too much to use.
People said that same thing with pistol optics... They were proven wrong.
People said that if the pistol was the wrong size for your body that an optic could help overcome the mis alignment in gun fit that causes the eye to not look where the barrell naturally points? Because that's what I'm saying. Optics are a stop gap measure to help you get some serviceability out of a poorly fitting shotgun without cutting it up and resizing.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I was commenting on the previous comment about shooting trap.
If you are “aiming” a shotgun you aren’t a good shot (full stop). Turkey hunting as the example for shotgun shooting. Hilarious. No one… absolutely no one… with an aiming device comes close to me on a trap or sporting clays course. If you show up with an aiming device… you are a beginner… and that device is going to hold you down.
I think you are sidestepping the point. Aside from turkey hunting, the example was that an optic could help compensate for improper gun fit. It's a stopgap, a backup plan, an alternative to help get some function out of a gun that doesn't fit you right and would otherwise not be viable. Maybe its a first gun, an inherited gun, an old heirloom that you just want to use without chopping up, etc. I'm not recommending optics for wing shooting, I'm just giving use cases and telling more of the story. For turkey hunting, they are a definite asset though, because poor body position is a product of shooting from contorted positions on the ground.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Ok - I’ll concede a special use case. But generally speaking… trying to rifle aim a shotgun is a beginners error. Am a 100 straight trap shooter, club leaderboard for 5 stand, and harvested 85 ducks this year. Turkey hunt with my bow.
@@Backyard.Archery I agree with you.
@@Backyard.Archery only 85??!! You gotta pump those numbers up! Those are rookie numbers in this racket!!!