New BOSS Warchief vs. Original Bismuth TESTED | Pattern + Ballistics Gel
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- The BOSS Warchief is their new buffered bismuth shell designed to have tighter patterns and deeper ballistics gel penetration which should enable you to hunt waterfowl at longer range with less recoil. I tested the original legacy BOSS bismuth against the new BOSS Warchief in three shot sizes incuding 5, 4, and 3/5 blend. Other bismuth shells like Winchester, Kent, and HEVI use higher velocity to get more penetration but BOSS accomplishes it with its new organic buffering material to make a more effective duck hunting shotgun shell.
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I conducted this test using my Mossberg 940 Pro Waterfowl with a Carlson's Bismuth Bone Buster Choke tube. This experiment to collect real ballistics data around gel penetration and pattern density was conducted at a certified range with proper ear and eye protection. Every shell tested was 2.75", 1.25 oz of shot, traveling at 1350 FPS. The only difference is some were buffered, and some were original. BOSS provided the shells tested in this video at my request, and Carlson's provided the choke, thanks to them for their support. #waterfowlhunting #duckhunting #goosehunting
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This channel is going to make answering new hunters questions so much easier. Thanks for the hard work!
Thank you so much!
@@TheNewHuntersGuidewould you shoot their 1s and 2s or three the highest you go
I would shoot 2s at late season geese if that is all that was in season and the birds were far off. I don't think 1s are needed for anything. #2s penetrate deeper than Steel BB.@@justinmolle8647
You've got me sold on the boss warchief shells. If they aren't a sponsor to your channel. They should be.!!!!!
Yea I agree, they should be lol
This is the only channel I know of that consistently test waterfowl ammo with such attention to detail. Good job and thanks! I really use this information.
Thank you so much for the kind feedback! I hope the channel grows and my budget increases so I test more and better.
You bet. If you get time, it'd be interesting to see pattern of the 1.5 ounce Warchief #3 vs. #4 vs. #5 from a SBE3 28" 12 gauge with a Müller Passing vs. UFO at 20, 30 and 40 yards. Those two tubes and that gun seem to do really well together, at least in my experience. Thanks again for the content brother.
Thanks so much!
Man I've been waiting for this video to come out. I knew you'd be the one to show how much of an improvement Boss was getting. Lets hope they just make this the new ammo without jacking up the price!
Thank you! I knew i had to do this video too, for my own curiosity lol. It does look like the price is a little higher but not drastically.
Doing what you do best! You always go above and beyond and get straight to the point in your videos. No B.S. Best comparison videos out there, hands down, my man. I'm curious what you'll do next. I'll be waiting 👌
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Very impressive indeed. I reload. I load both buffered and unbuffered shells. I did not know the difference was this substantial. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Thumbs up for the pellet counting! Appreciate the work you put in!
Thank you so much!
This was an excellent video. Really liked the objective data you enthusiastically presented. I was planning to buy some boss ammo for next season. This demonstrates that it needs to be war chief.
Thanks! I've been a big fan of it ever since doing this test.
Another great video with quality research, giving great answers. I used Boss 2 3/4 no3/5 last two seasons, will be getting some war chief for certain.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the support.
What's even more crazy, is when comparing them to your previous testing on 1.5oz shells, that extra 0.25 oz of shot resulted in LESS than 10 additional pellets in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. This is CRAZY! As a goose hunter, the paying more for 10 less pellets isn't really worth it, HOWEVER, I am very excited to see how the 1.5oz loads compare, considering it looks like BOSS has discontinued their 1 5/8 oz loads. If you normally shot 1.25 oz loads though, this is a less than 12% prince increase for a 22% increase in performance. I'd say that's great value! I was very skeptical when I saw this advertised, but I'm glad you tested it. Thanks!
Thank you so much! I totally agree. I am planning to test every Warchief payload released in #4 side by side to see how they compare. Hopefully the buffer material will enable the 1.5oz to maintain that Warchief edge. Also, who is to say they don't make a 1 5/8 Warcheif. Just because the legacy was discontinued, doesn't mean they wont do one here. Assuming they can fit the pellets and buffering in a shell.
You just earned yourself a new subscriber who’s getting into waterfowl hunting. Great video!
Thanks so much! Welcome aboard!
Great content. Thanks for all you do!
Thanks so much!
Thank you for your research and another fine presentation. I am a fan of BOSS shotshells, and the Warchief data speaks for itself. However, I will still use the legacy loads I have until they are gone. The legacy loads are still a fine product. But when they run out, I will become a BOSS Warchief.
Thank you! The legacy loads are actually better at close range, they open up faster. So I think there will always still be a place for them as long as they are produced.
Less recoil with increased lethality…. The shell we needed!
True story!
I appreciate the extent you go to to put these videos together. Thanks!
Thanks for watching sir!
😮….. oh good. Now I get to go tell my wife that the boss legacy shells that got delivered last week aren’t good enough now. Great video
Haha, they are just as good as they ever were. Now there are just more options, ideally for long range or lighter loads
Would love to see boss shells make their way up to Canada!
I'm still surprised they haven't!
Just bought 3 boxes of this Boss Warcheif. 3” 1’s for late season big canadas. Looking forward to trying them I have just this year tried Winchester Bismuth and some Hevi 12. I have really been impressed with both. Reaching way out if needed and killing geese stone dead. Both are a huge improvement over steel imo at least on big geese. I know some will disagree and say it’s a waste of $. But I’ve been hunting waterfowl for almost 50 years now and for ducks probably not a big deal but for big heavy down Canadian honkers these new shells are a game changer imo.
The ballistics data would agree with you!
I subscribed because I think you're very thorough and you're testing and your reviews I'm not a duck hunter but I am a big wing shooter love my upland bird hunting would love to see some upland bird hunting pattern testing and choke testing
Thank you so much! I have notes on my planning board for some upland ammo tests, but I have struggled for a year to find the loads I'm looking for with comparable shot and velocity numbers. Anymore I just use BOSS #5 or #4 for anything larger than a dove. I think the day for lead in upland bird hunting are numbered anyway.
Great job, really appreciate the work. Its gonna pay off soon, i bet your subs double over the next 6 months
Thank you so much! I hope so!
So glad you made this George, was really looking forward to this. Just picked up a mueller passing choke to compare against my carlson LR ported. Can't wait!
Thank you! Some testing with the Muller chokes is coming as well!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide After seeing the results from Joel, I was sold!
Spoiler. You are gonna be upset that you paid a ridiculous amount of money for the muller for the same performance as the much cheaper carlsons. After joels video I went and bought a decoy, passing, and ufo to try against my carlson close, medium and long range cremator chokes.
Legitimately the same performance. If there’s anything positive about the muller it is that it always seemed to manage to throw ONE pellet in what would otherwise be a gap in the pattern, helping even out the pattern. But for the considerable price increase that is definitely not worth it for me.
@@veteranironoutdoors8320 I have found the UFO to be a good turkey choke. Haven't done the test with bismuth yet.
@@veteranironoutdoors8320 Ive got an SBE3 that always seems to shoot a touch high and the carlson LR is hit or miss depending on the load. Tried the Bismuth bone buster and it performed the same. I do think the UFO is too tight for what I do but I liked the 60 day money back option for testing.
Do you ever do 20 ga pattern and jell like all the 12 ga ? You are Very good
Thanks! I do not have a 20 gauge yet. Hope to get one soon.
Definitely impressive! Thanks for doing this!
Thanks for watching!
Great shot shells my flat of war chief are in the way will let you know the results on the paper and in the field.
Awesome, looking forward to it!
Got a better idea. Have them send you a case and one to me, we could compare notes to help them out 😅.
Ha, a case is a lot of shells!
Great job on an informative video! I hand load my ammo and notice that the loading data for bismuth shows more buffered loads. Probably because bismuth is more frangible. I'm not a waterfowl hunter, I hunt mostly upland or small game. Nontoxic ammo is encouraged and is in some places becoming a requirement. I'm planning on starting to load bismuth ammo later this summer. Your videos are a big help in deciding what velocities and types of loads I will work on developing for myself
Thank you so much sir! I am glad the videos are helpful! I would definately go with a buffered load after seeing this and what the new Winchester bismuth can do.
Love the channel and methods. Would like to see some stuff applied to sporting clays. Maybe 7.5 vs 8s, 1oz vs 1-1/8th, chokes, etc.
Oh, that's a good idea. The only concern I have is staying within the scope of my channel. "New Hunters Guide" compels me to focus on hunting. Sporting clays can run parallel to hunting, and I've talked about it some, but I've been careful not to shift my focus too far away from hunting. I would like to do a few videos on the subject. Maybe next summer when hunting slows down for a couple months.
I wish Boss would have just made the necessary better changes instead of selling these shells under a different name. I personally would just want to sell ONE, best option, bismuth load instead of one crappy load and a better one.
Well, it depends on what range you are hunting at. For decoying birds at 25 yards, I'd rather have the faster spreading legacy load. These could be too much.
May as well use steel inside of 25 yards though
@@mrsmith9079 Yes you could. But then you'd still need bigger steel with fewer pellets to the same or less effect. And less ability to punch out further.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide which is why I wish you would give us more information on 25 yard patterns as opposed to the focus (not unique to you) on 40 yards 😊. But I love the channel. Take care.
Once again impressive results, they will make great flighting loads. And 2-3/4" x 1-1/4 oz keeps the price down. Not long now to September- can't wait.
Thanks so much! 3" testing should be coming soon.
@@TheNewHuntersGuidethere's nearly zero need for a 3" shell they usually pattern worse and only increase recoil . There isn't extra power in them. If you can hit with a 2.75" shell, you'll hit with a 3" at added cost and recoil so why bother?
Pellet count was not exactly as advertised but did the shot weigh as advertised? Sorry for the stupid question, you are very detailed in your analysis and I did not see the answer in the video nor in the comments prior to mine. I apologize if I missed it. I don't mean to be a pain. Of course if I didn't want to be a pain I wouldn't be asking. Great channel.
It's a fair question. I don't have a scale sensitive enough to measure that reliably yet. I just counted pellets. But sure, it is possible maybe the pellets are too small or too large and you have the right count but wrong weight. Hoping to get a decent scale soon, along with a chronograph and a second camera.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I am not surprised you are wanting to upgrade your measuring equipment. You are very thorough. Thanks for taking the time to answer. And, wow, that was a quick answer. I mostly notice the duck target part of the shot tests. Is it enough shot on target to kill. It also shows you are a very "good shot". I probably shouldn't tell you that I am fully capable of missing the big sheet of paper completely.🙃 Have fun !!!
The more you do it, the better you get. You'd do it well too if you shot anywhere near as much paper lol.@@Grampa-el3kz
Love your channel man! You have saved me a lot of testing dollars! Keep up the outstanding work! It is much appreciated!
Thank you do much! Glad to help!
Awesome information. You are a Godsend. Thank you!!
Thank you so much!
The house over your left shoulder looks exactly like my house.
Haha, well come out and say hello next time!
Excellent test 👍🦆
Thank you!
Came back to say - Still waiting for the 3in war chief review! lol
Appreciate all the insight!
That's coming soon!
@@TheNewHuntersGuidehell yeah! Im waiting to buy my duck loads until then! 🦆💥 🪶
@@OG_Ghost Should have the first video with them next week!
I’ve been anxiously waiting for this haha
Just bought the 3in 3/5s
All I can say is WOW. I may have to give these a try this upcoming Season. Is there any other Shell out there that may be a little more economical with similar or close performance? Thanks again for all of your awesome videos.
Thanks so much! I have found BOSS to be the best balance of cost and performance on the market so far. To spend less, I would go with some Kent Fasteel or HEVI Steel, but the performance does go down.
Great unbiased info well done!
Thank you sir!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Is there a address to send some$ to support this page?
@paulbecker12 thank you so much sir! You can support the channel via patreon in the description or right through CZcams via super thanks.
Thanks for your efforts.
Thanks for watching!
Great test! Are you going to consider switching to the number 5 shot based on these results?
Food wood ducks, yes, #5. For bigger, I am thinking about 3/5. But I want to see how the 1.5oz Warchief does first in each size.
Somebody get my man a sponsorship
Preach it!
If Bismuth was cheaper $20 a box, it would make steel shot as rare and extinct as a Dodo bird.
True story!
Especially when you look at how much it has come down in price over the past few years, compared to fast steel loads, that only seem to keep going up in price, I can easily see that happening. I was at my local gun store recently, and both Winchester DryLok and Super X were both more expensive than a box of BOSS (not including shipping). I'd REALLY like to see BOSS start selling retail, considering ordering a single box adds 30% to the sticker price.
Awesome video!
Thank you so much!
Anoth great video George!
Thank you so much!
Great info 👍👍
Thank you!
The first line of data on the chart (at 6:24) is incorrect. The advertised pellet count for 1.25 ounces of #5 238, according to the pellet count data sheet available from BOSS. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks for the great comparative content.
Wow, yea I must have mistyped that. You are correct. Good catch.
So I was listening to your podcast, which I love. Any ways you were talking about cheap inflatable kayaks. Have you seen tucktec kayaks, which weigh 28 pounds. What do you think?
Thanks for the support! This is the first I've heard of them. So I just took a look. They seem very cool. The folded size is a bit big and the weight is also significant. The cost is really high also. BUT the big win is you do not need to deflate it later. That is the worst part of the inflatable. You can blow it up about as fast as you can build this, but then you have to deflate it, which takes a bunch of time and energy and is messy and is the last thing you want to do at that time of day. Thanks for the idea. I could say packing this into the sled to get it into the woods. WAY easier than a normal one for sure.
Thanks for testing for us
Is there a certain amount of BBs within a 10 inch circle at 40 yards you like to have for waterfowl? I know you prefer 100 for turkey
Thanks for watching!
very interesting data!!!🦆🦆🦆
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thank you so much sir!
🙏❤️ Love from Scotland ❤️🙏
Thanks so much!
I'm not sure what the constriction is on that Carlson Bismuth Bone Crusher ER choke you used for this video but for wild pheasant hunters and many waterfowl hunters, most shots are between 35-50 yards. I would love to see a comparison at 40-yards between the #4 Boss Warchief and the standard #4 Boss shell using a Full choke (.035" constriction). Boss states on their website that the Warchief 12Ga produce "Longer range with F and IM Chokes: 88-90% patterns at 40 yards are not uncommon". So it would be great to see if your comparison produces similar results. Thanks!
I will be doing that test! Just waiting for the 3" warcheif shells to be released. The bone Buster is between full and xf. Thanks!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I suspect it is closer to a extra full so the pellet count is skewed. Please use a Full choke with .035 construction to confirm their claim.
@@steveillingworth5120 I'm planning to run it through about 9 chokes or so. We'll see what it can do across a variety.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide perfect. I’m mostly interested in the results from the Modified and Full with Boss #4 shot. Those are the chokes I use in my Over and Under when I hunt wild pheasant. Modified up to 40 yards and Full over 40 yards. Old Boss vs Boss Warchief.
@@TheNewHuntersGuideSave yourself a ton of time. If you tested IC, Modified, and Full chokes you would cover 95% of hunting applications.
Another great video!
Thank you!
Can you do a video on how to properly pattern your gun?
@@cdotsbot3898 Hmm, you know, that is not a bad idea. I'll see if I can think of a good way to make it interesting and add to what's already out there. Thanks!
Regarding the Pattern Test I can see a substantial improvement in the 5's and a moderate improvement in the 3/5's. What's troubling to me is the data on the 4's and mainly because like you, that's the load I use. The Legacy 4's had only 5 more pellets so I can't point to that as a reason for the not so impressive pattern results. I may be way off base here but is it possible that the smaller #5's, whether flying solo or with their #3 companions, react much more positively to the buffering effect of the Warchief than the 4's do???
Thanks,
Bob
So this is actually the best pattern I've gotten out of legacy 4s ever. So I'm not drawing any major conclusions yet. I will be testing the 3" #4s as soon as I can get them. That is where the rubber meets the road. I have tested the legacy 3" #4s extensively, I have tons of data on those. I know exactly what they do in my gun. I'll be able to tell real fast if the Warchiefs #4s are better when I get the 3#. I expect the buffering to make a much bigger deal in 3" shells because the longer the shot column gets the worst thr pattern tends to be with the legacy loads for me. The buffering should resolve the primary cause and the new wads should help alot.
Did you notice any broken pellets in the gel?
There may have been a broken one or two. It's hard to say, when I remelt the gel, I do 3 blocks into one and can't tell which test produced any broken pellets. But there were a couple fragments in the 3 test gel block when I was picking out the pellets.
Too bad we can't get them in Canada. ☹️
It's got to just be a matter of time
I’m like you and prefer boss #4 for ducks- what load do you prefer for early and late goose hunting?
For early geese, #4, for late season #2. Alot of people talk about using 5s and that'd ok if they are decoying at mid to close range but I don't think 5s are enough at 40 yards for a goose, you can't guarantee head shots at that range.
Do you prefer the Carlson Bismuth Bone Buster over the Extra Full skeet choke? Just curious- I saw your other video and thought the EF was better?
Just wait till next week's video! In short, the XF choke does pattern a little bit tighter. A couple percent. But at that point I start to think I'm getting too tight for all around hunting. The Bismuth Bone Buster is very tight without going all the way. Now, with the Warchief, the game is changed. The tightness of the pattern this stuff can product is off the charts, literally. You'll see next week. I may end up using a modified choke for regular hunting and switch to the XF for jump and pass hunting.
Have you tested the difference between the 2 3/4 inch shells vs 3 inch shells? I’ve head they use a 2 3/4 inch wad on both shells and it causes pattern differences.
I am just waiting on the other sizes of 3" shells to come so I can do that test. I tested the 3/5" in 3", that video is live, it did great.
I have a question- I like when you test Turkey shells you give a certain number of pellets in a 10 inch circle- with that same idea- what would be a minimum of pellets you would want in a 30 inch circle for ducks or geese? I’m getting 93+ at 40 yards with boss #2 but at 50 it drops off fast - so I’m curious even if the pattern percentage is lower- how many in that 30 inch circle would work?
Great question. My rule of thumb is 100 pellets in a 30" circle for anything that flies, at the range I plan to shoot. 93 for geese is probably sufficient since they are big birds. You could always use the buffered loads to add more range or drop down to 3s for more pattern.
Hello, what was the penetration for the #5 warchief shot? I might have missed that information.
I only put #4s in the gel.
Hi George, Thanks for the awesome video!
This video adds to you previous, fantastic, field measured, data focused research related to BOSS shells.
You have said that for your primary hunting situation, you like #4s. If you had to choose one of the three BOSS shells below, cost notwithstanding, could you pick one?
a) #4 1-1/4 oz war chief
b) #4 1-1/4 oz legacy
c) #4 1-1/2 oz legacy
thanks again for your research and effort to produce these videos.
Best,
Thanks so much! Well, I am waiting for the 1.5oz Warchief to hit the market any day now! I plan to use that or the 1.5 Warchief this fall. But I want to do a test between the #4 1.25 , 1.375, 1.5, and 1.625 Warchief to see which really has the best pattern and how much extra recoil I'm willing to take. I will say, the Warcheif 3/5s pattered impressively, while I'm not a duplex load fan normally, the extra pattern there could be enough to sway me.
To be honest, I think it really comes down to recoil. 1.5oz loads traveling at the same speed are going to have more recoil than 1.25oz loads. You are going to average ~10 more pellets in a 30" circle with the 1.5oz legacy for 11.4% less money, in exchange for the added recoil. However, if you are only shooting 1.25oz loads, the value in the Warchief is quite good. A 11.4% prince increase for 22% performance increase seem like an easy choice. So I guess it really depends on what you value in money, recoil, or pattern density.
@@D_Boone So far I've found the 1.5oz to be the most recoil I want to hunt with. Less is prefered. But the 1.625oz legacy also did not produce better patterns to warrant consideration.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I shoot a heavy double barrel and put a limbsaver pad on it a few years ago. I can pretty much shoot anything comfortable now. Now something I'd want to take into the duck swap or for a long hike, but it works really well for big honkers. 😂
Thanks. I’ll look for the war chief #4 1-1/2 oz.
FYI, two weeks ago, BOSS responded to an email I sent indicated they will not be providing 1-3/8oz this year.
I can’t wait to go get ‘em in the woods this Fall.
George l remember when you tested other bismuth loads with the longer shot cups, the patterns was almost to tight for decoyed birds , is this warcheif doing the same thing? Are we going to have a more open choke with the warcheif?or is it just a long range shell? thanks man. God bless you and go get them in the marsh
Thanks! For shot range hunts, I would definitely use a more open choke. But more choke testing is coming. This patterns just like those very tight other loads so far.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide thank you George, that is what I thought.
the hand loads i make with the mg42 wad without buffer run 85% pattern efficientcy
What choke!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide carlsons invector modified
@@wagner24314 Those are some good patterns.
Wagner24314 I thought that looked like an MG42. This looks close to a load i use from Lyman's 5th.
He said Ginormous. Oh my.
I'm open to alternative terminology lol
Good evening sir.
I have a question to ask you if you don't mind answering it ? I have 3 floating goose decoys and 12 mallard decoys and 3 black duck decoys. Do you know of any good Duck spread layout for that. On the water.?
If it were me, and of course I am not a professional duck hunting guide, I would put out the mallards and either mix the blacks in or put them together along one of the edges, but I'd probably mix them in. I would then take the goose decoys and put them about 15 yards away from the main spread in a group. Geese don't typically like to land in ducks, but will regularly fraternize nearby. This spread uses the geese and blacks to build confidence for ducks, but will also give you some draw power for lone geese and pairs that may come in and land near the goose group. That is what I would do, but I can't say that is objectively the best option with any data etc.
Will they offer the Warchief in #2s? I need those pass shooting these B-52s of Western Canada Geese.
I think they already have them in 2s. It is the 3" shells that are incoming this summer at some point.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Did you get advanced info on this? I can't find any information on this anywhere.
@@D_Boone Everything I know came from watching BOSS's Facebook live state of the Union address a few months back. You can probably still find it on their Facebook group. The shells are on the site.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Ah. Perfect, thank you.
What was your thought on the recoil of the boss 3/5
The 2.75" shells are very nice. The 3" has significantly more recoil. A little more than I'd like. They only come in a 1.5 oz 3" load for now, which is hearty. For regular hunting situations, I think the 2.75 is ideal. I will use the 3" for jump hunts and long range applications
Have you tried the telametrics paper yet?
The cost for the paper is just not sustainable for how much I shoot right now. Hopefully some day.
Can you buy this at any local sporting goods store?
BOSS only sells direct to consumer from their website. Else they would cost as much as their competitors which are about 40% more this year.
Is there any difference in recoil between the 2 3/4 vs 3inch boss shells
I didn't have them when I shot this video but yes. The 3" have alot more recoil. About 30%. They have a 1.5 oz payload which is alot.
Now that I’ve had the chance to test these shells, I have to say I’m disappointed. I got 3” #5 legacy to hit around 205 in the best combination. The best I got with the warchief was 220. That’s a 7% increase in performance. Well short of the big gains I was hoping to see. I wanted to see 250 and have a pattern that would be a passable turkey load at 40. Well short of either. Oh well. Still a heck of a wing shooting load.
My testing has not yet revealed any scenarios where a waterfowl load would make a comparable turkey load. The core pattern density just isn't there, the shot cups aren't made for that. But what chokes and constrictions have you tested with the Warcheif 5s? I just shot a test video where I did the 3" Warchief 5s through a Muller UFO choke and got exactly 250 pellets in the circle. It will air in a month or two.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Carlson's Cremator MR, LR, Sprting Clays XF, TKY .675, TKY.660. The LR was the best. The XF and .660 were the best with legacy.
@@Snailz5 The cremators are designed to be steel chokes, they are more open. Which is normally fine for bismuth, except with this particular objective. I would expect the XF to get you pretty close. The 0.675 could be too tight. Or it could just be that the load doesn't love that one for no reason but it's a shotgun. The UFO choke just seems to love the Warcheif for me. But who knows if it would be just the same in your gun. If you bought a box of ammo, I'd just stick with what you have. 220 Pellets of #5 at 40 yards is enough for just about anything you could want to use 5s for. If you bought a case, I might explore some more chokes.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Yeah I know what the chokes are about. What I'm seeing is that choking beyond the .705 Cremator LR didn't help pattern. LR- 220, XF - 202, .675 - 218, .660 - 219. Patterns had same general look to them. Whatever "unique geometry" that Mueller employs but doesn't explain, seems to help the pattern density beyond the plateau I'm seeing. My patterns were all somewhat right, so if your patterns were well off from point of aim, it could just be that your larger paper is letting you shift your counting circle enough to pick up the extra pellets. I keep my pattern sheets 30 ~33 and draw my circle to point of aim since I don't have an adjustable sighting system to account for loads that don't shoot POA.
@@Snailz5 Adjusting your gun fit can adjust your POA/POI discrepancy much of the time. Have you tried shooting with no choke in to see where the gun hits naturally?
there using the mg42 wad that i suggested to them
Good idea!
are they still using a 2 3/4 shot cup / wad in their 3" loads , if you cut a 3" shell you'll see only half the shot is contained in the wad the rest is just laying against the hull , no wonder a 2 3/4 load out patterns a 3" load , makes one wonder why they don't make a 3 1/2" , that would produce a lot of barrel streakers not contained by a wad causing some real pattern deformation , i wish they would produce a 3 1/2 " 12g instead of just saying you wont need it , as i type this while watching i see they have made changes in the shot cup but does it contain the entire load , someone cut some up
No, this issue was fixed in the Warchief, now that they make their own wads, they may have fixed it in the legacy as well, but I haven't checked a new batch.
thats great news , also would like to know about the 20g 3" as well , War Chief is looking like my next go to round , especially if the 20 cup fits the 3" hull , thanks we all appreciate your videos
More commercials than cable TV
Ha, and this wasn't even a sponsored episode. Not sure what you want.
I watch alot of your videos. You seem to shoot low alot .
I really think it's shooting a shotgun from a tripod, it messes with my shooting position. That really only works when using multiple point sights or optics like a rifle. The next few videos were all the same. I think I may try a few without the tripod.
I watched your boss warchief legacy video what a great video. I just saw the new hevi metal extrem X. What about a test against the boss.
@@chuckmartin7418 I haven't even heard about that one before. Is it new?
Yes it is new I saw it in the the Magazine Wildflowl big gear issue.
You shot one shell a piece? That's not even a real test let alone scientific
Its more testing than anyone else has done on the internet. You can come pay for the materials and time off work for me to do more testing next time lol. But I will say, having shot alot of shells in alot of test videos, the performance for pattern and penetration is very uniform. If a shell did 80% in one test, its usually very close to that in all the other tests.
Boss loads are the worst bismuth shells I’ve ever shot. You can definitely do better.
Why do you say that?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I bought into the hype a couple years ago too and got a 200 shell case. It was a total waste. The shells had significantly less knockdown power than a good steel shell which is definitely not what one would expect from bismuth. I’ve had them bounce off of geese at 30 yards. By the time I shot through a box, I was using the last of the case as swatter loads because they just wouldn’t do the job. I would recommend Kent or Hevi-Bismuth. Both are head and shoulders better than Boss.
You know, I'm just not seeing that in the test results. BOSS Bismuth consistently has 30-40% more ballistics gel penetration than steel of the same size at any velocity. The new Warcheif loads have the same penetration with better patterns than the other bismuth loads. Look back through the channel archives, I've done alot of ballistics gel and pattern testing with Boss and Hevi, and Kent bismuth, and against steel. Many videos. The results are always consistent.@@jmebig3044
@@TheNewHuntersGuide apparently some do get good batches. Inconsistent QA from boss seems to be the issue. Seems like this is one of those situations where data nuts shoot boss and actual hunters shoot something else.
I’ll take my consistent, while anecdotal, evidence in the field over any video someone could create. Frankly, I’m happy to see people buying boss while better rounds remain in stock.
So take your shells to paper and gel and see what they really do. Prove to yourself and others that your opinion is fact. That's why I started doing this. I refused to swallow the marketing hook line and sinker so I bought some big paper, a block of ballistics gel, got a camera and went to the range with some boss and some steel to see what the facts were. You can do the same. @@jmebig3044
Dude i love your videos but damn do you talk too much in the beginning….. I’m not trying to be mean but hell i almost don’t want to watch them sometimes… you need to summarize your speeches … not saying it’s not good info but Jesus, us guys that know our basic stuff, are like ok get to the load size, velocity, etc.
You can jump ahead to any point in the video you like. But watch the newer videos. I do shorter lead ins.
Nothing turns me off from a subscription faster then someone begging for subscription stop asking everyone on CZcams knows how it works if people like your content they will subscribe on their own just food for thought
You know, I used to think like that. I made videos for an entire year and never said the word subscribe. And I did the math and found that subscriber rates are roughly 300% higher when I mention subscribing in the video. Its my least favorite part of the video. But when you work this hard and invest this much time, energy, and money into a video, if you can triple the subscribe rates just by mentioning it in the video, you will do it. You might not think so from where you sit, but if our places were reversed, after a few years, you would probably start saying it also.
It is hard to pour so much into a channel, year after year, and see very slow growth. Especially when you look around and see channels doing half the work, none of the math, and really poor research that are growing drastically faster. Plus, I would hardly say I'm begging for subscribes. My standard line is "If like videos like this, reviews, field tests, and kicking the tires on assumptions, hit the subscribe button as well". It may not be the best line, but its certainly not begging. I'm letting people know what kind of videos I make if they want to subscribe to them.
How mentally weak do you have to be for this to bother you? 🤣Grow up and realize that people on CZcams are running a BUSINESS, not making personal recreationally content for you. I wonder how you survive in the world with this attitude.
You talk too much.
Would you prefer a silent video with paragraphs of information scrolling across the screen? What is the better alternative?
No better alternative, you’re just fine and informative. Ignore these twerps! Thanks for all you do.
@@OG_Ghost Thanks!
Good video
Thank you so much!
Shot some Winchester Bismuth and it clearly outdid any of our Boss loads. Almost shameful in how it dropped ducks.
look up foxtrot ammo H20Fowler 12 ga 3” 1-1/40z Bismuth x TSS i"m making a very similar load "that ive emailed you about before
Very nice. Thanks!
just yip yap for the whole video .. how about showing.
What do you mean?