AWFUL Hitboxes... - Behind The Scenes Of Classic Sonic
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 06. 2024
- Crazy things happening behind the scenes of the original Sonic games, let's take a look.
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Sonic 1 Overlay:
info.sonicretro.org/SPG:Overl...
Thanks to Devin Reeves for research help:
/ mercurysilver
A GMS2 Sonic fangame framework I recommend:
/ teamorbinaut
Contact & Freelance:
lapperdev.artstation.com
Intro Music by:
Jahn Davis
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&
Noah Copeland
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What's the craziest fact in this video?
New Video: Sonic Blast MANIAFIED
> czcams.com/video/nMWZ-o5CtLM/video.html
The sonic 2 boss hit box
The sonic sensors, we could do a lot of stuff with that.
Craziest 16-bit Sonic fact: It's a hot mess that's fun to play.
My life compared to yours: It's hot mess that's fun to play.
The spikes trick in Sonic 1 and the water drop hitboxes were the craziest facts for me. and about how much of a life I have, well, I'd just say I wish I have more time to make my own stuff like you with your research. đ
Your hand's hitbox.
Ngl whoever coded your hand hitbox should be fired
They ought to fix it first, then be fired
well if you think about it, there can only be 2 possible ppl to have coded his hitbox
yooo Iâm subbed to u you animations are so good
Wait r u that old CZcamsr I used to watch?
God was caught lacking
I bet the developers _wish_ they had tools to look at the hit boxes like this. A load of these issues look like they exist because the devs had to look at them in a bunch of text boxes with numbers rather than visual images.
Now i understand why i keep bumping into things accidentally, my hitboxes are messed up too
I think the reason the hitbox of Robotnik's chemical blobs is off-center is so that they are positioned correctly when they first start falling. If you look closely, you'll notice that the position of the projectile is the same as the position of the box when it drops.
These videos have godly editing, this deserve the 100 thousand subscribers at the very least. They take long to arrive, but with this quality is well deserved the wait, keep it up!
In the future when he's at that point, we will all turn back to the old videos and see comments like these, fulfilled.
no it doesnât. paint drying is just better.
This explains my intense hatred for those stupid crabs in Metropolis Zone.
At 3:27 I'm sure it bothered us all until we realized we had to go further
Never knew about crouching on the chemical plant boss
Man the pacing in your videos has gotten so so much better. Really glad to see you keep improving!
5:35
"I ported my LUA script to real-life. And check it out!"
**pink box appears out of nowhere making a sound effect**
The individual spikes having their own collision is so funny.
Absolutely fascinating! I feel a sense of closure I never realized I wanted after seeing the hitboxes for those frustrating crabs!
7:40
CSS players: *maniacal laughter*
That intro looks amazing.
Just a little too loud espescially in contrast with your quieter and gentle voice. Got Lappy jumpscared
Apologies! Will try adjust better in future.
Ngl, collisions are EXTREMELY frustrating to work with when creating a Sonic/Sonic-Esc game! đBut this video is so eye opening, and here I thought Sonic's slope physics were perfect!
Man Id love a sonic 3 video like this ! Keep up the good work
This is an amazing video
Intriguing thumbnail, great writing, and extremely high skill editing!!!!! Please make more like this!
And me complaining that the little game I'm making while learning Python have messy hitboxes, but then you remind me of the evil robot crab of Metropolis.
this was actually really useful, right now im developing a sonic framework in GMS2 and i was struggling to understand some sections of the physics guide!
I had no idea you should crouch to avoid the chemical plant boss attack, this will make fighting that boss much easier, thank you
An even easier strategy:
When he first appears just jump at him 8 times before he gets to do his attack and go to the left/middle before you fall into the water.
This was quite honestly very fascinating to see. I'm under the impression that you really studied this stuff. I tried studying python years ago and I made some progress but then unfortunately my medication for my ADHD had just gotten so expensive I couldn't afford to keep spending as much as I had to every month to get it so it was hard to focus and a class I should have completed years ago I am nowhere close to done.
But the fact is I find this kind of stuff to be fascinating. Maybe I could find a way to set some time aside to really learn this stuff too. Growing up I've actually wanted to design video games but I just hadn't really had the confidence in ability to code or design them. The closest thing I can say I am done is make entire campaigns on the starcraft campaign editor and used the tools within that campaign Editor to make there be dialogue between characters and cause conditions to trigger actions to happen not just victory in the feet but various other actions that would allow you to progress on the starcraft mission.
Well anyways, this was really awesome to watch so I'm the subscribing and curious about a whole lot more
I always wondered why a hitbox can't just be the same as the model, especially in pixelated games?
Any answers?
It would have to then check many many 1px squares rather than just 1 big one, saves a ton on processing. These days computers can do it easy, but it is still simpler to code, design, and process with simple boxes.
@@LapperDev Fair enough, I suppose.
@@Foaklore Plus, when done right, the player's not actually going to notice if the hitbox doesn't line up 1:1 with the model. And sometimes, if something's hitbox perfectly matches an object's size, the player will say the game's cheap and that they're getting hit when they "clearly" avoided something, or that they should've picked something up but didn't. So, devs usually rig the game slightly in the player's favor so the player thinks the game is fair and not rigged against them.
for context, hitboxes are really simple as all they require is comparing the sums of the objects' coordinates and dimensions, i.e. you can tell if two objects are overlapping horizontally by checking a.x + a.width > b.x - b.width and a.x - a.width < b.x + b.width. or, in other words, by checking if a's rightmost edge is to the right of b's leftmost edge, while its leftmost edge is to the left of b's rightmost edge
then you just a similar check for the other dimensions and bam, you can now tell if a and b are overlapping with only a handful of checks and instructions. checking for overlapping pixels has nothing so elegant, unfortunately
Making hitboxes being the same as the sprites would make the game coding much difficult than they need to be, and also putting too much pixelated hitboxes would cause it to lag a lot. That's why it's recommended to make collisions as close as possible without using too much hitboxes.
So how would one create a physics system like this? It's awesome you can visualize it, but I think it would be even more awesome if you could create a tutorial to recreate this movement/collision c:
Yeah there's a Physics Guide but that is only in semi-code and doesn't apply to modern game engines in some cases, and the tutorials that are there on the internet never tackle slopes, only straight movement, and even then it's rarely correct to the Physics of Sonic. I have created movement on straight surfaces like Sonic just fine but slopes are just so difficult to handle with very little explanation as to the how.
The guide is designed to apply to any game engine (I know because I have been adding to it for years!) if there's anything about the guide that confuses you or you feel needs better explaining, please DM the Twitter account @SonicPhysics (me) and I can explain things or make changes.
But when it comes to slopes, in particular sonic slopes, the main advice I give is make the collision yourself using your own system, don't rely on the built in collision functions or default systems in these modern IDEs, otherwise it's likely to be even harder to do the advanced stuff (and in worst cases, affect your physics in ways you can't control). It'll mean less/faster code, more control, and better results.
Damn, sometimes the youtube algorithm doesnât miss. Iâve fallen in love with your editing style and Iâm pumped for the sonic 3 video! Youâve got a new sub pal
"In theory if there is a single pixel gap between 2 objects, sonic can get in there"
He been dietin
Thank You Bro For Discovering My Favorite Classic Sonic Games Hitboxes!! I Appreciate That!!
Cool Video Lapper Keep It up
Hi. Glad to see youâre back!
your editing is crazy man
I'm guessing the Big ring hitbox in Sonic 1 is long vertically while centered to make it appear that you are jumping through the ring, and not collecting it.
I love Overlay activation sound effect, because it kinda sounds like a vine boom
Amazing!
This is an eyeopener to many weird things possible in the classic games
Iâd love to see a part 2 with Sonic CD and Sonic 3&K
I learn so much and got an understanding to how these things work.
Hello Lapper. Very nice video to show what the hitboxes is for the next generation. ^^
I like useing the term "Hurtbox" when dealing with boxes that hit you instead of hitting the foe to differenciate the term hitbox ive seen this consept in fighting games all time time its nice to finally see it in platformers especialy in Sonic games
commenting at 0:35 into the video. I've played these games from the day they were first released; I'm not a speed-runner, I don't actually have personal or intrinsic knowledge of the code and physics engine at a programming level, but my navigation of the games is almost entirely intuitive muscle-memory all these years later...
I'm looking forward to see what you have to share with this, and I already know that I'm gonna be screwing with this collision overlay tonight when I'm done with household chores :D
Loved this video! More like it please!!!! I thought I knew everything there was to know about sonic on the mega drive! How wrong I was
I am 30 years old...and i had no idea crouching keeps you safe from the Chemical Plant boss drop.
I don't blame ya, it's not exactly intuitive lol
This is very interesting stuff!
Love it!!! Whereâs the follow up?! đ
Bro, that's a lot of crazy stuff I didn't know about the hitboxes. I wonder if the hitbox oddities still are present in the mobile remake of the game (like the Metropolis' crab or Chemical Plant's boss).
probably not because its a custom engine if im correct
Very good and informative video.
Iâve played these games for almost two decades, and I never knew the reason why Sonic avoided damage from the chemicals but Tails didnât.
Really cool to see these mechanics
Great video.
For some Reason, Perhaps due to my Greater-than-Standard interest in Technology, Video Games, and Game Design, I easily find this one of my Favourite Videos on your Channel
Lapper is secretly the next TaxMan
About the Metropolis zone it is really annoyed by asteron ,the crab with a long hand and also the grasshoppers but then that one day I literally speedrunning without getting any damages
Man, youâre criminally underrated
Awesome ! Cant rember I subscribed to you nor that I turn on notifications but this js the good shit !
LEZ GOOO NEW VIDEO
I WANT MORE OF THIS
WHY DOESNT THIS HAVE 1000 MORBILLION VIEWS
UR SO TALENTED U DESERVE WAY MORE
U CAN EDIT BETTER THAN MOST BIG CHANNELS
U CAN MAKE GORGEUOUS PIXEL ART BETTER THAN LOTS OF PIXEL ART IN BIG GAMES
UR AMAZING
U CAN CODE TOO
Don't make some non-morbius jokes
3:49 Ohhh.. That's why they brought in the insta-shield!
I thought that Sonic surviving that Chemical Plant Boss attack was because he deflected it with his spines...
Like a hedgehog
Also Tails doesn't have spines to protect himself so he cannot deflect the attack
Me too
The new intro đđ
Aw hell nah, da crab robot got that janky hitbox
I think Sonic can tank the boss attack because of the spikes on his back
here's my theory about the Sonic 2 Chemical Plant boss:
Sonic doesn't get hit because he's curling up into a ball, his quills are protecting him. Tails doesn't do that, he just crouches, so he's still vulnerable.
Is this actually why they did this? Probably not, but I like to imagine it is.
I have the feeling the blob hitbox is off center, is because it's actually a larger sprite then it looks. Like the blob is the upper/right corner of a 2x2 sprite block. The other blocks simply have no graphics in them. Or something...
Why have you removed the videos on Sonic Studio? I was so hyped for that, I assume it's cancelled to focus on the channel instead? :/
Follow the Twitter đ @SonicStudioProj
awesome đ đ
Glad to see I wasn't the only one who found that jump through spikes bug as a kid.
I very carefully jumped through the section of spikes to the left of the tvs on Green Hill Act 2 thinking there must be some secret, but nope.
Jumping between individual spikes like:
âȘ Oh, I have all my fingers â«
âȘ The knife goes chop chop chop â«
âȘ If I miss the spaces in-between my fingers will come off â«
âȘ And if I hit my fingers â«
âȘ The blood will soon come out â«
âȘ But all the same I play this game cause that's what it's all about â«
âȘ Oh, chop chop chop chop chop chop â«
âȘ I'm picking up the speed â«
âȘ And if I hit my fingers then my hand will start to bleed â«
Not all slopes are created equal
Slope lives matter!
This Guy Is Awesome!
I am willing to bet the reason the hitbox for the chemical plant boss is like that is so you get hit if you are jumping at robotnik as he is doing his attack animation, that offset hitbox comes out right at the corner of the container.
I always knew that damn robot crab was unfair
That mega crabmeat is the bane of my existence
Make more of this content on other sonic games as well in other games
people are talking about how your hand hitbox is off centered, but why has nobody mentioned that his fingers have no hitboxes? its just one big cube
ah yes, I am not clumsy, just my hitboxes are a mess
This is a great video. Those badniks are so annoying.
Well. Yesterday was my birthday. Hooray I guess...
This is really neat.
the box hitbox is disappearing makes sense, particularly becasue bosses where the boss disappears and reappears and you can embed Sonic in the middle of their hitbox, and you don't hit the boss every frame when you do so.
That's exactly why, nice point, I should have mentioned it
@@LapperDev
It is interesting that it happens for Sonic 1, a game that I don't recall having any "teleport" bosses, as well as not having Spin dash, as a way to maybe attack and pass through a boss hit box.
Sonic 2 had Sliver Sonic, who I would basically beat by spin dashing through when he dashes without spinning.
and Sonic 3 had the act 2 boss of Angel Island as a "teleporter", so it's not like they didn't have use for the concept in the sequels.
I could have benefited from that chemical plant hitbox trick 7 years ago đ
Don't worry, just putting a comment just to remember that this is my first video i've watched from him.
I think I know why the chemical blob hitbox is like that. If you watch the way it's used in the attacks the egg mobile will frequently move toward the falling blob and the hitbox could have been moved so that it doesn't hit the egg mobile while it's falling. Essentially, the hitbox may have been moved there to prevent It from destroying the egg mobile when it's dropped and when it's falling.
Interesting theory! However objects arent programmed to interact with eachother by default, only with the players
@@LapperDev damn.
Honestly, most older games were coded
Extremely strangely.
Thats why i forget things all the time
*My brain is too small for the memories terrain sensors*
I KNEW IT!! I knew that the crab enemy from Metropolis Zone had a big fat hazard hitbox above its head!! đ What a cheater!
I would love to see a Sonic 3 video!
The Shellcracker hitbox is so bad, it makes Dark Souls 2 blush.
05:14 it's also hurt Knuckles (i just tried that with Sonic Tails and Knuckles)
Oh thanks for the Chemical plant thing. Now it would take me less time to beat that boss :)
the damn metropolis crab1!!!!
Metropolis' Mantis Hitbox.
Whoaaaoow my head's spinning
hey lapper i just wanted to ask if sonic studio was cancelled? It seems that you have deleted the sonic studio videos off of your channel.
Nope, follow the Twitter account for future updates: @SonicStudioProj
@@LapperDev well, I have seen this happening before and for sure that's not a good sign. But your content is quite good so I don't mind even if SS ends up getting cancelled đ
Imagine if instead of the Crab arm to been forget, it was the trajectory of those mantis spinning scythes...
Expected more Cybershell
I just saw this. It was so informative and entertaining! Good thing it has 4.1K likes already, including mine, so I look forward to more of this!
some instances of that slope in emerald hill also exhibit the same no-slope-physics traits in their top half that you highlighted in the marble zone slope object, i've noticed. it's very silly rolling on them only to come to a dead stop a couple inches down.
Because of the way it works, the flagging of that EHZ tile means you will be able to walk on it as if it is a flat wall (angle = 90), hence the flying straight up when leaving) when you are already rotated, but ALSO as if it was a flat floor (angle = 0) when you are already right side up.
I noticed its oddness way before I looked into Sonic games and I always did wonder why.
I thought I was the only one that knew that "stand in the middle of the spike" glitch in sonic 1
That robot crab from metropolis zone was a dick though. All of the badniks in metropolitan were annoying
We've seen you do so many great videos tackling classic sonic games and their pixel art, what about sonic advance for a try. It's almost classic.
Oh so I donât just suck at the game when I always get hit my the crab badniks, stupid hit boxes
Oh
You have a voice that sounds like it would be really good for asmr