How to build cannonball delts: 4 tips
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- čas přidán 6. 02. 2023
- Do you struggle with building round cannonball shoulders? This video explains why and gives you 4 practical tips on how to build rounder delts.
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Recap:
According to a study, many bodybuilders have front deltoids that are on average 5 times bigger than sedentary people, but the rear deltoids are only 15% bigger. In the study "Front vs Back and Barbell vs Machine Overhead Press: An Electromyographic Analysis and Implications For Resistance Training," Italian researchers found that the behind-the-neck barbell military press is the best for the lateral deltoids and the posterior deltoids. The more the elbow is moved towards the back of the body, the more the stress is shifted towards the side and rear deltoids. On the other hand, front machine or barbell press was the winner for the pecs and deactivated the pecs when the elbow was moved back.
Thanks
OK, I'm sort of novice when it comes to anatomy, but medial delts always threw me off. Thanks for clearing that up! Lateral delts makes so much more sense.
I don't know if I'm doing it right but just trying the behind the neck press and the engagement of all the the stabilizer muscles in the upper back feels so amazing.
Thank you so much for sharing great evidence based information.
Your tips are absolute gold. Of course some of them just confirm what I already knew, but I still learned something new
Absolutely first rate information, Menno. Time to change my overhead press technique!
amazing always very knowledgeable and informative thanks
Newbie here. I was watching this video while doing lat raises, and transitioned immediately into behind the head presses, pushing backwards and outwards instead of directly up and narrow. The posterior delt pump I got was insane! 👏🤯 Amazing!
Thank you menno
nice. thank for this awesome information.
Informative video, thanks.
Thank you fot the great video 👌
Excellent video 🙏🏻
High cable face pull and incline reverse dumbbell flys work rear delts great
Menno Super dit soort youtube informatie filmpjes zijn top. Ben zelf een personal trainer in Amsterdam en dit helpt mij echt. Ben heel benieuwd wat jij vind van het wendler programma. Ga zo door!!
those overhead presses were awesome
Hi Menno, in your advice for military press with a barbell for lateral deltoids it seems that if you arch your back and lean back that you would be simulating a steep incline press. I agree that using dumbbells is a more effective method and I personally have had very good results using dumbbells.
I'm currently doing sitting dumbbell behind the neck presses, but I'm actually leaning against an almost vertical seat with my chest, not the back. I guess this is not possible for most people due to mobility constraints, but it stabilizes me while taking care of the problem of immobilizing the scapulae
Rear cable crossovers get a good long length stretch on the side delts.
I prefer cable lateral delt raises and the tip to lean forward I suspect will make a big difference. Thanks, Menno.
Bodies are vastly different. So regardless of all the training advice, there will be some exercise that you like and can do better than others, depending on how you're built. That's why there's so many machines and variations in exercises. Do the ones that are most comfortable for you.
It try and throw in a bit of everything except where an injury makes it impossible to do.
You're awesome man
Smith machine behind the neck ohp is the goat for shoulders for me. No stability requirement so you can push super hard, and loadable and able to progress better than something like a lateral raise even though i do both
Yup, i use to train from front to rear, but now I the opposite. Also i will save my front delt work at the ennd of my chest workout
I like the lateral raise machine that has pads that sit on the upper arm.
The lateral raise machine is a great machine. It allows for strict dealt training for single or double arms that is safe and secure. It especially useful during my shoulder rehab.
Nice video Menno. Currently swimming 3 times a week so have reduced specific shoulder volume. Have just removed lateral raises from the program as I feel I need to keep the arms tight to the body at the moment with all the swimming which hammers the shoulder joint. But have just introduced standing DB shoulder press. Feels nice. Good timing with your video
Awesome. Keep doing these videos!
I've had a dedicated shoulder day in my program for the last 5 yearrs and it consists of just lateral/rear deltoid work.
Not only have my rear/lateral delts grown significantly (now have round shoulders as a natty) but my chest has improved too because my front delts are never overtrained before my chest workouts.
Overhead press is the most overrated exercise in the world of bodybuilding.
Overhead press is highly underestimated,.
I recently learned about these and I'm currently working to improve my bench press PR and I heard from few other sources that working overhead press is greatly beneficial for improving benchpress.
After hearing about this I'll definitely be putting my elbows back further s.
@@devintompkins9626 I was speaking purely about bodybuilding (muscle gain).
If your goal is strength, you MUST have ohp in your routine.
My bench and ohp tended to go up together when I was powerlifting.
The 2 people that helped me with my side delts the most are Alberto Nuñez and John Meadows.
The y raise, heavy lateral partials, incline lateral raise, and the partial ROM cable side lateral completely blew my side delts up. They are my best bodypart by far now.
What does the partial ROM cable lateral raise refer to? Doing partials in the lower position?
Incline lateral raises und y raises i think are the Same
@@ew-zd1th incline raise performance with your side on the incline bench not your stomach.
It is performed unilaterally, and it is not the same as a y raise.
@@TypicallyUniqueOfficial ah okay. I also doing these. The burn IS better than on regular laterals
@@ew-zd1th wherever you feel it best, do that exercise. Everyone is different, experiment with what works best for you.
Now I understand why Arnold used to sit on a regular bench but not on a seat with back support while performing smith machine ovhd presses.(Because this helped him keeping his torso as flat as possible rather than a slightly inclined position as in seated presses) He was way ahead of his time. Way to go Arnold.😎💯
It is rare that I disagree with you but here we go:
In terms of principles, you are spot on, everything checks out.
Functionally though, it is obvious to me you are speaking from personal experience when it comes specifically to overhead press. I can see from you speaking, and the ohp video, that your external rotation is abysmal. That is the reason you have to lean back so far. When you arch your upper back that much, even though relative to the ground you're moving in the frontal plane, relative to your shoulder blades (what actually matters) you are basically doing an incline press, which is mainly front shoulder/chest. Ohp just isn't a great tool for lateral/read deltoids, regardless how you perform it. The other tools you mentioned are far superior.
Highly recommend working on your external rotation either way. If you'd like some how-to advice I'd be happy to share. For someone who is adamant that bodybuilding is sufficient/good for increasing range of motion, you have certainly neglected that one for a long time.
Cheers from Canada.
I’d like some tips on how to increase external rotation! I have that issue too. Also you’d say OhP unnecessary and to instead stick with lateral and rear delt isolation for shoulders?
@@patrickjulius7352 Increasing range of motion at a joint is the same as increasing strength at the maximum range you can reach. Some PNF stretching (google it) followed by training in the newly achieved range, over time of course, will result in permanent increase in range of motion.
I would stick with specific lateral
ead delt work yes. Menno commonly mentions that front delts get overworked by most people anyway, and he's absolutely correct. rear delts in particular tend to get underworked. Just remember that when doing anything with the rear felt, you need to anchor your shoulderblade first. Best way to think of it is like you're pushing your elbows away from your midline throughout the whole movement, creating the biggest arc you can. This will mostly counteract any shoulderblade retraction while training. Alternatively, you can retract your shoulders all the way and just keep them there, but I find it dramatically harder to maintain full ROM, in particular the lengthened portion which seems to be most important.
Best of luck sir!
@patrickjulius7352 purely anecdotally, from my own experiences and people I know, you won't get very far solely on isos for the shoulders. Hopefully you can do some btn pressing, but frankly even when I did military presses with isos I always had better results. If you can't press behind the neck, doing your isos before the ohp can help have your side delts closer to failure during the pressing.
What about sitting in reverse on the bench? Basically having your chest supported and maybe even a little bit tilted forwards. Firstly because stability is important for muscle activation and I assume that's more stable than standing. Secondly it's much harder to cheat subconsciously and let the stronger front delts do more work by leaning back slightly if you can just focus on keeping your chest on the bench.
Menno, I’ve been advising my clients to lean forward when doing lateral raises for over 10 years now.
Another trick to disengage anterior delt and engage posterior delt while doing lateral raises is to externally rotate the humerus about 20° as you raise the arm
You should check out a short that Jeff Nippard put out recent about the lateral raise. Just as an addition or alternative. I tried the position out today and it was waaay better.
If you can't do behind the neck presses, you need to do behind the neck presses.
And you need to use them correctly, meaning low weights and high reps with slow eccentrics. Use them either as warm-up before something heavier, or to stretch after the heavy stuff.
Super set with light laterals for extra pömp
I rotate them into my routine every now and then to maintain my shoulder health, having recovered almost completely from a nagging injury.
Any exercise recommendations for the lateral and rear delts?
What is your opinion on Powell raises? Have you looked at hand position and this exercise?
What about reverse flies and do it more often?
can you explain about best volume for deltoids?
If I can do a back overhead press with a barbell is that better than with free weights?
How much do pulling movements contribute to medial deltoid development?
Doesn't EMG detect electrical neural impulses only and not measure muscle contraction?
Didn't know Menno was that strong.
Worth doing behind the neck with limited weight just for the stretch.
Doing DB shoulder pressing while standing is a pain in the ass. Although it’s gonna humble you, but just getting DBs up in position is hard compared to seated
Previously you have recommended butterfly lateral raises or Lu raises I recall. Have you changed your view on that lately given you didn’t mention them in the video?
No, I still like those a lot.
Thanks you for sharing this however i don’t agree with the stand or sit! I rarely do a stand shoulder over head press and when i sit i do it at the edge of the bench so my back isn’t against anything. Pushing your feet down the floor and the the exercise with Dumbell is just amazingly efficient! Most of people do standing overhead press by excessive lower back arching which at the long term can create spinal impingement and definitely transform the exercise to an incline press.
What a smart educated well rounded person and then awesome athlete you are. Sheer pleasure listening to u. Regards. Camel
Regarding Dumbbell OHP: isn't it recommend to press in the sagittal plane rather directly sideways? i've been lifting directly out to the sides is bad for shoulder health?
If you have no shoulder problems, it's generally fine to press out to the sides.
What about leaning forward slightly with an upright row?
It works well. Just make sure they don't bother your shoulders.
What are your thoughts on using slanted smith machine while sitting on a flat bench (no back support)? You can get the bar very close to your nose and when it gets to the top, it feels good on the lateral delts because of the slant.
It can work if you get the right pressing angle.
Damn my lower back is hurting just seeing those OHPs!
Use to obsess over finding the perfect exercises.
I wish I learned it faster: The excercises that work best are the ones that work for YOU! (And there a bunch that don't work for me)
Still like Menno though! ☺
If you get back pain from OHP, you're probably not contracting your glutes enough to prevent lumbar hyperextension. The movement should come from the thoracic, upper spine.
Awesome cue thanks menno, Greating from Bahrain 🇧🇭 @@menno.henselmans
The sooner people get this the better off they'll be. People are just built differently. Some people have the flexibility to raise their lower arms vertically. Others (like me) cannot. It depends on how your torso is built.
After several years in the gym trying maximise my shoulder presses, two years in the dissection lab, having worked in orthopaedic surgery and my own experience with an emg, I would have to disagree that vertical pressing where the arms are inline with the shoulder joint in the coronal plane is the optimal suggestion to grow the side delts
I would argue in the average human body, in order to able to press vertically, some external rotation will be required by the humerus in order complete a vertical press be it in front or behind the head. This external rotation thus forces the front of the delt to be the main driver of abduction of the shoulder, and the side does not get adequately loaded because the direction of it’s fibres are parallel to the plane of abduction when there is external rotation. With my own personal use with an emg, found side delts activated a lot more when abduction is done in neutral position (think cable side raises) or even internally rotated which also hits the rear delt (think dumbbel raises with the pinky sticking outwards)
Just my 2 cents. Worked for me in the gym. Could be wrong, but others also agree with sentiments after testing shoulder abduction with varying external/internal rotation.
I wouldn't say the OHP is optimal, but it's good and it allows you to work the upper half of their ROM, which cable laterals don't. I think you want both for optimal results, or at least a butterfly lateral raise variant if you don't have any OHPing.
Genuine question, why wouldn't I just program more volume/frequency for lateral raises and face pulls rather than trying to activate them via different variations of a shoulder press that would involve you using less weight
You can do that, yes, but I think there's some benefit to having at least a butterfly lateral raise in there then to work the delts over their full length.
You want me to do standing db presses with 100s in each hand?
Great video and well explained. To absolutely maximize muscle growth, I can see why standing would be beneficial. But, the risk/reward ratio is higher from standing due to spinal compression. Even if form is perfect, spinal compression will occur.
Actually, sitting increases spinal compression forces generally due to the lack of shock absorption from the lower body.
@@menno.henselmans interesting!
Very nice. I love behind the neck press, zero issues here. I think many people have protracted shoulders from too much benching and poor lifestyle posture, I'd wager behind the neck press isn't limited anatomically for most.
👍👍👍
Youre damn strong
But I thought that in the same way your front delts are heavily stimulated by pressing movements, your rear delts are heavily stimulated by pulling movements like pullups and rows? But if that first statistic about rear delts only being 15% larger in trained lifters vs sedentary individuals is even close to true, that would mean back exercises don't effectively stimulate your rear delts?
what does science say about short clavicles? the other day I saw a competing bodybuilder here with short clavicles and when not flexing he still looks like a kid from the front. is there no way to defeat this bad luck?
I'm going to be training my delts for the rest of my life 😅
My delts are pathetic but I'm hoping soon it will look like I'm walking between two bald guys
Joel Menno Hartmans
From an engineering perspective. Pressing behind the neck will activate the lateral and posterior deltoid more than front press. This is because of the constant tension pulling the humorous out and back. I believe this is what is being measured, not the involvement of the press. If this is correct behind the neck press will not produce better results for the lateral and posterior heads. What is being measured is closer to an isometric contraction.
Yeah, the issue with emg, as far as I understand, is thet activation doesn't always mean a muscle is being actively worked or stimulated.
Exactly which is why emg is useless. I mean ffs actually paying attention to emg might lead one to believe that squats are superior to calf raises for calf hypertrophy and that chins are superior to curls.
A summary at the end or beginning would be useful :)
I woke up in 2015 today
isn’t it eastier to just skip the military press and just do lateral raise and back shoulders?? 🤔
Yes, its easier, but not nearly as effective. You need to do over the head press for full range of motion. After all that is a natural body movement isn't it?
There’s no secret , just be consistent …
Negative. You can be consistant using poor form.
didn't know he was german until 12:16
dutch
Swamp German*
@@machinotaur lmao
Say cannonball one more time
Medial is just another name for the lateral deltoid. Just as vastus medialis can also be called a teardrop muscle.
Anyway, I have news for you, front delts are naturally the bigger of the deltoid muscles.
If a pro bodybuilder only has a rear delt 15% bigger than the average Joe, why bother training it at all?
Seriously… then all the rowing and pulling only increased their rear delts by… 15%?
Because their competition is working theirs.
He actually never said “pro bodybuilders” have rear delts only 15% bigger than the average Joe, he said the study [Ironman Magazine (2002), Micheal Gundill] was comprised of average bodybuilders.
Professional bodybuilders weren’t mentioned until the second study that he referenced as part of his explanation for why the first study found some bodybuilders might not be hitting the rear delts on over head pressing movements.
Because they don't train it, that's it. If they did, it would be a Hell lot bigger. Plus, he wasn't talking about pros.
You forgot carbs. High rep high volume for slow twitch dominant muscle groups benefit from carb oxidation ability to regenerate atp at a fast rate as opposed to your fat adapted keto state. Carbs carbs carbs. When will you accept their necessity for optimizing hypertrophy? End rant.
WAT?
@@perezlindo5962 He's talking apples, but the video is about oranges.
This is terrible advice.