The British know how to use sub 12 FPE effectively . I had to buy one just to get a feel for what they are dealing with . We are spoiled rotten in the US ! Lol I would like to say , you’re videos and presentations are good and informative . I believe you will see a growing audience in a short period of time .
Appreciate the representation with respect and grace. Most of the time us brits get laughed at. I have a number of different fpe options but there is still a place for
From the UK here but have access to a few different power levels. I agree with you about how on small varmints you need less than 5 ftlbs on impact. Muzzle energy is less important than muzzle velocity and the coefficient to retain that velocity. Weve come a long way from diablos and a .22 20gr slug coming out at 850fps is a fantastically accurate, effective, and safe varmint hunter. Flatish tragectory great power rention, efficient on air usage, quiet and hits like a train on rabbits out at 50-90yards which is a good enough distance to stalk to without spooking them
Very good explanation. I agree 100%. Spot on accuracy and good fpe. That is why I love my Airforce Condor SS in.25. Wood match splitting accuracy at thirty yards done successfully by myself. It also packs alot of fpe. Plus quiet enough to not scare the pest or game animals away for the rest of the day.
Yea, that is amazing. Actually tell people about that here in USA and they are like no way you need way more power.... hence the creation of this video. Thanks for watching....
I agree,your 100% boss!!! I thought about these things last year. I purchased some powerful air rifles with all the hype in the newer stuff coming out! I was sitting thinking one hot day. I said wait uh minute,i got all this power and thinking about using slugz and all. I had watched a video or 2 the night before where the UK guys were shooting ridiculous amounts wit 12fpe and under. I broke out my older springers , very old ones and started messing with them, low an behold it did dawn on me lol don't need a bunch of power pesting and small game hunting! I set the power levels down on my pcp air rifles and tried it. I was kinda shocked but remembered how much of this stuff I took down for years with lower fpe and I was caught up in the newer pcp rifle world lol anyways, I use lighter weight pellets and low power levels and I still have the high successful rate! I've taken large pesty birds 60 yrds easy with cheap pellets and I use .177 in the FX Maverick, Air Arms and Kral and BRK pcp rifles ! I'm still living the air gunnarz dream!!! I won't say what type pellets cause then there will be a big shortage of this. Lol my secret with my secret formula lol hey great video! Sta slingin that sweet air rifle lead! Ed da pro snippin air man💥💪😱😱😱
Yep, had a talk with a buddy, He was killing sparrows with his daisy red ryder when he was a kid. His red ryder was 350 fps 7.4 grain bbs for a total of 2.1 fpe taking out sparrows at close range just an FYI. You know kids... Yep less air less costs same result. Thanks for chiming in.
@@ShootingTargets727 yes sir! Right on!Did the same thing when I was a youngster, then upgraded in a few years to the crosman 760 pump up with crosman flat match pellets.Then few more years a Mexico made Gamo breaker800fps. And joined an air rifle match shooting club and shot competition, think a Weihrauch German made rifle. Went on to shoot the 10m. 1st 2nd places. Then got a Benjamin made pcp. Went into service 4 yrs. Got out Been collecting and buying since. I have over 40 yrs in it now.👍
@@ShootingTargets727 Still great information. I personally don't get into the power thing. I love 177cal tuned around 18ft pounds. It works fantastic in my backyard and I don't have to worry about the pellets flying places with alot of energy if I miss. I've been shooting my new HW30S 177cal lately. It's only alittle over 6ft pounds. But it's as accurate as anything else out to 25 yards. 👍
Wow, there are just so many variables that go into this topic. I believe that when it comes to pesting or hunting that FPE isn't quite as important as shot placement. One of the videos that comes to mind is the guy on CZcams who dropped a full grown Elk with one shot from an FX Impact M3 in 30 cal. The Elk turned away from him and he shot it in the skull right in-between the ears and that Elk dropped without a single twitch. Here's the kicker, he used a pellet and not a slug. Seen another video here on CZcams of a guy dropping a 400lb hog with the same gun, an FX Impact M3 in 30 cal (but was using slugs). I believe that when it comes to FPE that we need enough to penetrate specific areas for a good clean kill. That being said, how much FPE and speed do we need to penetrate the skull of a given animal (within a certain range of course). And aside from FPE, there is also projectile design whether it's a pellet or a slug. You take a JSB Hades for example, in 22 cal let's say. That 15gr 22 caliber pellet, upon impact, expands to around the diameter of a 30 cal. So regardless of FPE, there is also the projectile size, when expanded, that is contributing the overall effect of the shot. Similar with powder burners. I can shoot a coyote with a 55gr fmj 223 and it will penetrate into the heart and pass through and the coyote will still run a tiny ways. But I can also shoot a coyote with a 55gr VMax in 223 and that bullet will make a damn near fist size hole in it and it will drop like a brick upon impact. Same size bullet, same caliber, but one has a much more efficient design for the task at hand. Personally, I like as much power as I can get without sacrificing accuracy, and then I turn to the projectile that has the best design and size for what I am going to be using it for. I think that's the ticket.
Yes exactly. So far everyone on here has been really mature with replies. There is not one simple answer to all the things mentioned but to most of us accuracy is still king Thanks for watching....
Very good session for pest control, agree that a headshot on a racoon with 20 FPE will do the kill, but here in Denmark the hunting regulation has a minimum of 129 FPE at 100m for racoon and fox etc, guess that is meant for heart/lung shot
Wow thanks for the education. I figured there are some regulations depending on locations but did not know Denmark had specific regulations for animals. Also thanks for sharing.
@@ShootingTargets727 Oh yes to be a hunter in DK you almost need a PHD 😆👍 Also thanks to you for some great videos 🙂👍 If that should be of any interest this is our regulations translated with google and me 😉 Ammunition § 2. Cartridges for smoothbore shotguns may be used for hunting and pest control when the following requirements are met: 1) Cartridges with shot that have a density of 7g/cm3 or more. 2) Cartridges with shot that have a density of 9g/cm3 or less must have an muzzle velocity (V1.5) of at least 400 m/sec. 3 ) Cartridges with shot that have a density greater than 9g/cm3 must have an muzzle velocity (V1.5) of at least 375 m/sec. Sect. 2. Shot in shot cartridges must have a maximum diameter of 4 mm. Sect. 3. Bullet cartridges in smoothbore shotguns may not be used for hunting or regulation. Sect. 4. Shot cartridges with lead shot may not: 1) traded, included or used for hunting or pest control, or 2) is included or used for clay target shooting, including on shooting ranges. § 3. Hunting ammunition for rifled weapons may be used for hunting and pest control of the mentioned species when the following requirements are met, cf. also appendix 1: 1) For red deer, fallow deer, sika deer, mouflon, wild boar and harbor seal as well as the game species mentioned in no. 2-5, either bullet weight at least 9 g (139 gr) and impact energy E100 at least 2700 J, or bullet weight at least 10 g (154 gr) and impact energy E100 at least 2000 J. 2) For roe deer and the game species mentioned in no. 3-5, bullet weight at least 3.2 g (50 gr) and impact energy E100 at least 800 J. 3) For foxes, raccoons, raccoons, hares, marsh beavers, geese and cormorants as well as the game species mentioned in nos. 4-5, impact energy E100 at least 175 J. 4 ) For house marten, ferret, mink, wild rabbit, muskrat, hen, coot, ducks and seagulls as well as the game species mentioned in no. 5, impact energy E0 at least 150 J. 5) For pigeons, cormorants, waders and starlings muzzle velocity V0 at least 200 m/sec. Sect. 2. In the case of hunting ammunition for rifled weapons for hunting or regulating red deer, fallow deer, sika deer, roe deer, mouflon, wild boar or harbor seal, the projectile must be expanding. Sect. 3. Weapons that can use ammunition in caliber · 50 BMG may not be used.
I converted a .177 Diana Chaser to hpa. With the long barrel it's running around 6.5 fpe with an 800 psi regulator. Accuracy is fantastic out to 60 yards but it's a whole new shooting experience and lots of fun when you're getting 250 shots per fill.
Townsend Whelen is who said "only accurate rifles are interesting" back in the 50's . Sam Fadala has some good books out there on the subject of energy albeit his works are mostly related to black powder guns. One of his quotes I like relating to energy is " You have to start with something" While I don't suffer from magnumitis, I think taking a minimalist attitude towards airgun power is the wrong approach especially considering the low levels of power we're dealing with. I'm not sure where the cutoff is, I've taken squirrels rabbits and various birds with my .177 cal RWS model 34. My pellet choices were anything from standard 7.9 grain to the 10+ grain H&N Barracudas. I doubt the rifle exceeds 13-15 ft lbs with any given projectile and it's been a very effective hunting tool. With these weapons I think penetration and shot placement are the bread winners with energy coming in as an ancillary factor although not an insignificant one! Just my humble thoughts on the matter.
Excellent common sense information 👍. I'm a ex field target shooter, most of my field rifle's are set at half the power of my hunting colleagues. Accuracy before power, every time.
Very very apt video..... craving for more and more power is a human instinct. In case of modern and new airgunners, this craving surpasses the practical requirements and make spend $$ much in excess to acquire high power PCPs, however they may seldom be shooting over 40 yds. Even the madness makes them negate the other reality as area available for plinking, scope of gaming in their country, legal issues, etc. Thanks for the nice video and compliments to the pers feeding sensible and mature inputs.
Intresting point there, agree that sub 12 fpe is more than enough for most pesting in both 177 and 22.yes and its all about shot placement before energy in fpe, that energy does not help without the proper shotplacement, thanks for another excellent video.👍🇸🇪🔫
I have a lot of British friends. The airgun world is so different there. I am a moderator on several pages in uk and i live in the states (NY) In the states we make up for lousy skill with more power , yet my brit friends learn to read wind and compensate accordingly because of 12fpe power limitations. Here if there not all in the 10 ring with 30 mph winds then you need more power. Very few people learn to read wind or set their scope up properly in the first place. How many viewers really know about parallax vs focus. If the target is “clear” my scope is bang on? No, no its not
Where can you find a 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge/barrel combo producing 3000 fpe at the muzzle? All my research and personal experience show the 6.5 Creedmoor with 22 inch barrel and 120-143 grain bullet producing ~2200-2300 fpe at the muzzle. Thanks for an interesting and thoughtful video.
Being Canadian shot placement matters the most since we only are allowed 500 fps any energy we want but only 500 fps, for raccoons and possum and skunks I’ve used 17 fpe air rifles firing around 30 grains for 490 fps and have dispatched them in the 20-30 yard/meter mark. Make sure to just aim for eyes or ears and you will have the dispatch is perfectly fine seen much worse from my grand father who would shot groundhogs with .177 500 fps at around 6 fpe and would dispatch groundhogs within 15 yards again eye placement, aim for the soft parts and trust me they will drop.
The Brits are taking down all types of small game and pests with sub 12ft/lb air guns. IMHO, having more FPE often times increases the noise level which nullifies the inherent advantage of air guns.
I think comparing the .22 cal making 120 FPE to a heavy regulated .177 Maverick is not a solid comparisson. Instead of going one caliber down (.22 to .177 pcp) you can also chose to go one caliber up (.30) and get to 115/120 fpe from a 600mm Leshiy 2. PCP will outshoot most .22lr pistols so In the lower end of the spectrum pcp is closing the gap. Like you said, I wouldn't want the airguns to go any higher, for obvious reasons. But it's good that hey try because it pushes the developers and designers to come up with new and better ideas.
Awesome video man I agree with you on this accuracy is king I'd rather have an accurate gun than a powerful gun thanks for sharing very informational video thank you have a great day
Depending where you live it is accuracy at the range you are shooting that counts. For example in New England, most of your small game shots are going to be this side of 50 yards and 6 to 10 ft lbs of energy at the target will be enough. You are right that the charts got inflated too. Have no clue who inflates them and why but they have. The chart you displayed showed 9 FPE for squirrels. In the past it was 6 in most charts. I have a modified 1720 pistol in .177, very accurate doing 9 FPE at the muzzle with 10.5 gr pellets. At 35 yards it goes through both sides of a soup can. Would the squirrel skull know the difference? Now this is where modern PCPs come in, if you live in prairie dog country where you can not approach within 100 yards, you need the extra FPE and again you need that to achieve good accuracy at longer distances.
The problem over the last few years is the marketing BS towards more FPE. OK, I do a lot of testing & my Impact MK2 V2 25 cal can push over 110ftlb (over 12fpe at 1 mile) but i normally have it around 70fpe. But the issue being, especially FX (which I love the brand) is the restrictions of South African calibre for air rifles being 22, unless they apply for a license, which the two FX bods state "can't be bothered" so they push & push the limits on 22cal, which is great for FX as it means the introduction of extras that they say you need. 800mm barrel, carbon sleeves, tension systems, tuners etc etc. Then people buy into it. But the problem is, that I have said many times, it's great seeing what can be achieved but too much FPE leads to reduced precision accuracy, which on small game is bad news. Though a monkeys head at 100yds is a massive target. So more FPE less precision. But then they all reduce the energy for competition as they accept precision is better at reduced fpe. Which they don't generally mention. So all the folk who bought into the more more more FPE gimmick start reducing power, as they miss constantly. CZcams is great to edit misses. It's great how the industry has gone & still going but I feel some people are in it for money otherwise transparency would be better. My Impact MK2 is pretty standard, only slug kit, dual port & 720 plenum & the fpe in can produce is way more than needed. The Epoch looks interesting 🙂
ahh you make some very good points. Yep applying more power does lead to problems of accuracy especially depending on the projectile. I was not aware of the limitations in south africa. Thanks again for sharing and watching.
yep and the zues 72 cal is pushing about 1500 FPE as well. I hope this does not blow back on us you know from regulations. Where every bb gun needs a background check.....
Very informative information, thanks for the video, In one of my recent videos I mentioned if you are hunting how much shots do you really need, and how far are you taking the shots with an air rifle, and all reality most people hunt between 30 to 80 yards with an air rifle, to be honest most hunt the same distance with a real rifle so you are right the extra power is really not needed, unless you really trying to reach out there, accuracy is most important to me, shut placement is important to me.
LOL, the FPE for coyote has changed so much it is not even funny. Like 25 FPE to 35 FPE min. That is for a brain shot.. 50 to 100 FPE or more for body. Hope this helps and will make charts bigger.
Its an interesting subject. Smash and rupture overkill or the accurate coup de grace. I think most hunters agree on accuracy but none, especially Bush tucker men, like the idea of vaporizing what could have been a nice meal in thanks for the life of an animal or bird. Smashing creatures into oblivion just seems more the mindless action of a childish video game player, than a mature experienced hunter. In Scotland I filled up my freezer with Rabbits, Wood pigeons and pheasants with a Brocock cartridge air rifle .22. It was the weakest air gun I ever owned. Well under 10fpds. But could easily put the pellets behind the rabbits ear. The birds were a different challenge with this pea shooter. They had to be shot against the grain of their feathers or the pellets simply bounced off. But all this simply emphasizes the excellent points made in this video. Crude Power helps but without accuracy its shooting at fresh air. Tactics are also very important. In winter, roosting birds dont like the cold wing blowing up their feathers. So they face the wind to hold their warmth and fluff out their feathers to improve insulation. Making them more vulnerable to the hunter and pellets that come with the breeze.
@@ShootingTargets727 And thank you. By the way am all for pest control. But I don't really get the idea of a " humane" kill. In my mind, unless you are killing an animal to put it out of some misery and pain, that concept just isn't realistic. We are talking about healthy animals. In some instances perhaps too healthy. But we are taking an innocent form of life. I think what we are really talking about with respect to humane, is our wish to minimize any suffering in our attempt to kill. This brings up the question of suffering and perhaps how long an injured animal might suffer if our shots are not on target. Ultimately this leads to moral and ethical issues. But that risk is always there. I cant say that I have never felt the guilt. Especially when I have taken what didn't have any reason to be taken. Why take a shot at a creature when just as much or more joy can come from a paper target or tin can. Sure! Instant kills are far from guaranteed. But few things are. We will all die in time.. Hats of to the accurate hunter that knows there is only one way to go. And that's b4 the pain impulses even reach the brain. And that's why we want the most accurate rifles and ammo available at the price we can afford. Hunt and shoot with purpose, as I believe you do my friend. The rest is in gods hands.
@@ShootingTargets727 Yes very complicated. Almost political in nature. And some moralistic agent will trash me for killing a rat, head shot, but supports war in Europe with missiles and bombs while I only dispatch disease routes with a 10gr pellet. Sums it up! Senseless! 😉🤣
You can kill an elephant with a .177..It would need about 30-35 J..And a hard pellet like the barracuda... 35 J in .177 has the same joule per mm2 as a cal. 50 with 279,6 J.. Front area of the .177 is 15,9 mm2..The .50 area is. 127 mm2..But there is a very little difference between calibers. My .177 at 32 J can not penetrate 21 mm plywood..My .22 can. But only just .. At 48 J Its the same joule mm2 as the .177.. .48 x 15,9 div. by 23,75 is 32..
@@ShootingTargets727 Well. Nobody does..Thats why .50 and .72 where invented..But it has also to do with max velocity..A .177 barracuda at 930 ftp can not go muth faster and hit where you aim. A .22 barracuda at 930 Fps has about 20 procent more power per mm2. But will be fine with 950-970 fpe..Anyways the difference to a .177 will be +- 5-7 mm on the skull...SO..Aim is everything.
How much power...? Let me guess ...after going thru famous CZcamsrs and reputed airguns shops peddling their stuff it's hands down a tricked out Impact M3 in .30 cal spitting out slugs at 130 ftlb at a ground hog 5 inches tall. The upside is at 240 FPS on GoPro 8 the footage is detailed and gory. If you aren't impressed by the hollopoint expansion nothing will . point is you would rather err on more humane side
Totally agree. I mean do what is right for the person. The point being is that we get fascinated by power vs accuracy. New shooters always ask is it powerful ??? More like is it accurate ??? Thanks for watching...
Personally, my favorite quote is "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final." ~Wyatt Earp
lol ill take that 😀
Very Good explaination about fpe . Easy to understand when you said it. Thanks and keep up the Good work your doing.
You bet thanks for watching !
The British know how to use sub 12 FPE effectively . I had to buy one just to get a feel for what they are dealing with . We are spoiled rotten in the US ! Lol
I would like to say , you’re videos and presentations are good and informative . I believe you will see a growing audience in a short period of time .
yep spent a season with 12 fpe field target rifle for hunting was fun. We are spoiled.
Yeah, but the brits aren't going after woodchucks or coyotes at 50+ yards either. Or ground squirrels at 50+ yards.
@@212caboose nah, just rabbits, squirrels, pigeons etc over 200yds 😂
12ft.lbs. will not shoot 200 yards
Appreciate the representation with respect and grace. Most of the time us brits get laughed at. I have a number of different fpe options but there is still a place for
From the UK here but have access to a few different power levels. I agree with you about how on small varmints you need less than 5 ftlbs on impact. Muzzle energy is less important than muzzle velocity and the coefficient to retain that velocity. Weve come a long way from diablos and a .22 20gr slug coming out at 850fps is a fantastically accurate, effective, and safe varmint hunter. Flatish tragectory great power rention, efficient on air usage, quiet and hits like a train on rabbits out at 50-90yards which is a good enough distance to stalk to without spooking them
Indeed here in the US all that is talked about is POWER...... Thanks for commenting.
Very good explanation. I agree 100%. Spot on accuracy and good fpe. That is why I love my Airforce Condor SS in.25. Wood match splitting accuracy at thirty yards done successfully by myself. It also packs alot of fpe. Plus quiet enough to not scare the pest or game animals away for the rest of the day.
Thanks Again for watching !
in the uk we hunt with 11fpe at the muzzle, we take rabbits at 70 - 80 yards with around 3 fpe at that range
Yea, that is amazing. Actually tell people about that here in USA and they are like no way you need way more power.... hence the creation of this video. Thanks for watching....
I agree,your 100% boss!!! I thought about these things last year. I purchased some powerful air rifles with all the hype in the newer stuff coming out! I was sitting thinking one hot day. I said wait uh minute,i got all this power and thinking about using slugz and all. I had watched a video or 2 the night before where the UK guys were shooting ridiculous amounts wit 12fpe and under. I broke out my older springers , very old ones and started messing with them, low an behold it did dawn on me lol don't need a bunch of power pesting and small game hunting! I set the power levels down on my pcp air rifles and tried it. I was kinda shocked but remembered how much of this stuff I took down for years with lower fpe and I was caught up in the newer pcp rifle world lol anyways, I use lighter weight pellets and low power levels and I still have the high successful rate! I've taken large pesty birds 60 yrds easy with cheap pellets and I use .177 in the FX Maverick, Air Arms and Kral and BRK pcp rifles ! I'm still living the air gunnarz dream!!! I won't say what type pellets cause then there will be a big shortage of this. Lol my secret with my secret formula lol hey great video! Sta slingin that sweet air rifle lead! Ed da pro snippin air man💥💪😱😱😱
Yep, had a talk with a buddy, He was killing sparrows with his daisy red ryder when he was a kid. His red ryder was 350 fps 7.4 grain bbs for a total of 2.1 fpe taking out sparrows at close range just an FYI. You know kids... Yep less air less costs same result. Thanks for chiming in.
@@ShootingTargets727 yes sir! Right on!Did the same thing when I was a youngster, then upgraded in a few years to the crosman 760 pump up with crosman flat match pellets.Then few more years a Mexico made Gamo breaker800fps. And joined an air rifle match shooting club and shot competition, think a Weihrauch German made rifle. Went on to shoot the 10m. 1st 2nd places. Then got a Benjamin made pcp. Went into service 4 yrs. Got out Been collecting and buying since. I have over 40 yrs in it now.👍
Used as low as 9fpe on barn pigeons & starlings effectively. Making less nozzle report & impact noise spooked the others less as well.
Solid....
Sorry, I couldn't resist. On a more serious note, a great video with a lot of good info. I shoot powder burners and airguns so I found it interesting.
cool, yep I shoot both as well but my choice is airguns because of the lack of noise.. Even thou a silencer does help the BP guns.
Looks like a Maverick to me.
Yep misspoke
It identifies as an Impact ..........🌈🤣🤣
@@heithwatkins please . . . don't, not hear, not in the airgun realm 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great looking Impact..........
The new design looks just like a Maverick......🤣🤣🤣
ohh yea.... lol.....
@@ShootingTargets727 Still great information. I personally don't get into the power thing. I love 177cal tuned around 18ft pounds. It works fantastic in my backyard and I don't have to worry about the pellets flying places with alot of energy if I miss. I've been shooting my new HW30S 177cal lately. It's only alittle over 6ft pounds. But it's as accurate as anything else out to 25 yards. 👍
Wow, there are just so many variables that go into this topic. I believe that when it comes to pesting or hunting that FPE isn't quite as important as shot placement. One of the videos that comes to mind is the guy on CZcams who dropped a full grown Elk with one shot from an FX Impact M3 in 30 cal. The Elk turned away from him and he shot it in the skull right in-between the ears and that Elk dropped without a single twitch. Here's the kicker, he used a pellet and not a slug. Seen another video here on CZcams of a guy dropping a 400lb hog with the same gun, an FX Impact M3 in 30 cal (but was using slugs).
I believe that when it comes to FPE that we need enough to penetrate specific areas for a good clean kill. That being said, how much FPE and speed do we need to penetrate the skull of a given animal (within a certain range of course). And aside from FPE, there is also projectile design whether it's a pellet or a slug. You take a JSB Hades for example, in 22 cal let's say. That 15gr 22 caliber pellet, upon impact, expands to around the diameter of a 30 cal. So regardless of FPE, there is also the projectile size, when expanded, that is contributing the overall effect of the shot. Similar with powder burners. I can shoot a coyote with a 55gr fmj 223 and it will penetrate into the heart and pass through and the coyote will still run a tiny ways. But I can also shoot a coyote with a 55gr VMax in 223 and that bullet will make a damn near fist size hole in it and it will drop like a brick upon impact. Same size bullet, same caliber, but one has a much more efficient design for the task at hand. Personally, I like as much power as I can get without sacrificing accuracy, and then I turn to the projectile that has the best design and size for what I am going to be using it for. I think that's the ticket.
Yes exactly. So far everyone on here has been really mature with replies. There is not one simple answer to all the things mentioned but to most of us accuracy is still king Thanks for watching....
Very good session for pest control, agree that a headshot on a racoon with 20 FPE will do the kill, but here in Denmark the hunting regulation has a minimum of 129 FPE at 100m for racoon and fox etc, guess that is meant for heart/lung shot
Wow thanks for the education. I figured there are some regulations depending on locations but did not know Denmark had specific regulations for animals. Also thanks for sharing.
@@ShootingTargets727 Oh yes to be a hunter in DK you almost need a PHD 😆👍
Also thanks to you for some great videos 🙂👍
If that should be of any interest this is our regulations translated with google and me 😉
Ammunition
§ 2. Cartridges for smoothbore shotguns may be used for hunting and pest control when the following requirements are met:
1) Cartridges with shot that have a density of 7g/cm3 or more.
2) Cartridges with shot that have a density of 9g/cm3 or less must have an muzzle velocity (V1.5) of at least 400 m/sec.
3 ) Cartridges with shot that have a density greater than 9g/cm3 must have an muzzle velocity (V1.5) of at least 375 m/sec.
Sect. 2. Shot in shot cartridges must have a maximum diameter of 4 mm.
Sect. 3. Bullet cartridges in smoothbore shotguns may not be used for hunting or regulation.
Sect. 4. Shot cartridges with lead shot may not:
1) traded, included or used for hunting or pest control, or
2) is included or used for clay target shooting, including on shooting ranges.
§ 3. Hunting ammunition for rifled weapons may be used for hunting and pest control of the mentioned species when the following requirements are met, cf. also appendix 1:
1) For red deer, fallow deer, sika deer, mouflon, wild boar and harbor seal as well as the game species mentioned in no. 2-5, either bullet weight at least 9 g (139 gr) and impact energy E100 at least 2700 J, or bullet weight at least 10 g (154 gr) and impact energy E100 at least 2000 J.
2) For roe deer and the game species mentioned in no. 3-5, bullet weight at least 3.2 g (50 gr) and impact energy E100 at least 800 J.
3) For foxes, raccoons, raccoons, hares, marsh beavers, geese and cormorants as well as the game species mentioned in nos. 4-5, impact energy E100 at least 175 J.
4 ) For house marten, ferret, mink, wild rabbit, muskrat, hen, coot, ducks and seagulls as well as the game species mentioned in no. 5, impact energy E0 at least 150 J.
5) For pigeons, cormorants, waders and starlings muzzle velocity V0 at least 200 m/sec.
Sect. 2. In the case of hunting ammunition for rifled weapons for hunting or regulating red deer, fallow deer, sika deer, roe deer, mouflon, wild boar or harbor seal, the projectile must be expanding.
Sect. 3. Weapons that can use ammunition in caliber · 50 BMG may not be used.
@@DK-TechCorner Wow intense man.... Take care.....
I converted a .177 Diana Chaser to hpa. With the long barrel it's running around 6.5 fpe with an 800 psi regulator. Accuracy is fantastic out to 60 yards but it's a whole new shooting experience and lots of fun when you're getting 250 shots per fill.
Yea, 250 shots pers a fill is a different rifle is it not ? Also thanks for watching.
Thanks for the talk, interesting to see the relative energy.
I agree that accuracy is key.
You bet Ted thanks for watching....
Townsend Whelen is who said "only accurate rifles are interesting" back in the 50's . Sam Fadala has some good books out there on the subject of energy albeit his works are mostly related to black powder guns. One of his quotes I like relating to energy is " You have to start with something" While I don't suffer from magnumitis, I think taking a minimalist attitude towards airgun power is the wrong approach especially considering the low levels of power we're dealing with. I'm not sure where the cutoff is, I've taken squirrels rabbits and various birds with my .177 cal RWS model 34. My pellet choices were anything from standard 7.9 grain to the 10+ grain H&N Barracudas. I doubt the rifle exceeds 13-15 ft lbs with any given projectile and it's been a very effective hunting tool. With these weapons I think penetration and shot placement are the bread winners with energy coming in as an ancillary factor although not an insignificant one! Just my humble thoughts on the matter.
Thanks for watching and commenting.. Yep very deep subject but nice to hear experiences.
Excellent common sense information 👍.
I'm a ex field target shooter, most of my field rifle's are set at half the power of my hunting colleagues.
Accuracy before power, every time.
You have to love those field target rifles right ??? Also thanks for watching.....
@@ShootingTargets727 always happy to watch. Well done 👍
Very very apt video..... craving for more and more power is a human instinct. In case of modern and new airgunners, this craving surpasses the practical requirements and make spend $$ much in excess to acquire high power PCPs, however they may seldom be shooting over 40 yds. Even the madness makes them negate the other reality as area available for plinking, scope of gaming in their country, legal issues, etc.
Thanks for the nice video and compliments to the pers feeding sensible and mature inputs.
Much thanks for watching, subscribing and the kind words !
Intresting point there, agree that sub 12 fpe is more than enough for most pesting in both 177 and 22.yes and its all about shot placement before energy in fpe, that energy does not help without the proper shotplacement, thanks for another excellent video.👍🇸🇪🔫
Awesome thanks for watching !
You got to crack the skull..40-50 fpe is right for .22 at 50m
Strongly agree. Me as a squirrel hunter shot placement is most important. Therefore an accurate gun is better than a stronger gun.
oohhh yeaaahhhh...
I am in n. Wales 🏴 uk I only use 177 for hunting like you say it’s down to pellet placement
ohhh yeahhh. seen some great shots at 87 yards with only 12FPE .... good stuff.
I have a lot of British friends. The airgun world is so different there. I am a moderator on several pages in uk and i live in the states (NY)
In the states we make up for lousy skill with more power , yet my brit friends learn to read wind and compensate accordingly because of 12fpe power limitations.
Here if there not all in the 10 ring with 30 mph winds then you need more power. Very few people learn to read wind or set their scope up properly in the first place.
How many viewers really know about parallax vs focus. If the target is “clear” my scope is bang on? No, no its not
Yep, why not buy our way out right ? Thanks for commenting.
Where can you find a 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge/barrel combo producing 3000 fpe at the muzzle?
All my research and personal experience show the 6.5 Creedmoor with 22 inch barrel and 120-143 grain bullet producing ~2200-2300 fpe at the muzzle.
Thanks for an interesting and thoughtful video.
my research might be wrong on that one. I just typed in average FPE for a creedmore. It showed 3000 fpe but I believe you.
Being Canadian shot placement matters the most since we only are allowed 500 fps any energy we want but only 500 fps, for raccoons and possum and skunks I’ve used 17 fpe air rifles firing around 30 grains for 490 fps and have dispatched them in the 20-30 yard/meter mark. Make sure to just aim for eyes or ears and you will have the dispatch is perfectly fine seen much worse from my grand father who would shot groundhogs with .177 500 fps at around 6 fpe and would dispatch groundhogs within 15 yards again eye placement, aim for the soft parts and trust me they will drop.
ahh well said, thanks for commenting and the sub....
The Brits are taking down all types of small game and pests with sub 12ft/lb air guns. IMHO, having more FPE often times increases the noise level which nullifies the inherent advantage of air guns.
Yep, it is pretty amazing to see. 12 FPE is a very efficient amount of power. Even surprising you do not need even 12 fpe .
Thanks for watching !
I think comparing the .22 cal making 120 FPE to a heavy regulated .177 Maverick is not a solid comparisson. Instead of going one caliber down (.22 to .177 pcp) you can also chose to go one caliber up (.30) and get to 115/120 fpe from a 600mm Leshiy 2. PCP will outshoot most .22lr pistols so In the lower end of the spectrum pcp is closing the gap. Like you said, I wouldn't want the airguns to go any higher, for obvious reasons. But it's good that hey try because it pushes the developers and designers to come up with new and better ideas.
Solid..
Nice video
Much Thanks , also for watching !!
I agree. Just a note, you are referring to fx maverick as fx impact. Other than that, I couldn't agree.more.
Yep LoL i caught that later ... my bad.... They look and feel very similar..... Sorry.... Also thanks for watching.....
Awesome video man I agree with you on this accuracy is king I'd rather have an accurate gun than a powerful gun thanks for sharing very informational video thank you have a great day
Same Have a great day as well.. Also thanks for tuning in.
Why do we need that much power for the US market? As Patrick Swayze said in Wolverines “Because we live here!” Good video
ohhhh yeaaaaaa... Thanks for watching...
Agree! Thank you for the video.
You Bet.... Thanks for watching....
It’s all in the placement
Yep.... so true.... Also thanks for tuning in.
Depending where you live it is accuracy at the range you are shooting that counts. For example in New England, most of your small game shots are going to be this side of 50 yards and 6 to 10 ft lbs of energy at the target will be enough. You are right that the charts got inflated too. Have no clue who inflates them and why but they have. The chart you displayed showed 9 FPE for squirrels. In the past it was 6 in most charts. I have a modified 1720 pistol in .177, very accurate doing 9 FPE at the muzzle with 10.5 gr pellets. At 35 yards it goes through both sides of a soup can. Would the squirrel skull know the difference?
Now this is where modern PCPs come in, if you live in prairie dog country where you can not approach within 100 yards, you need the extra FPE and again you need that to achieve good accuracy at longer distances.
well said,,, yep inflated numbers helps sales.
The problem over the last few years is the marketing BS towards more FPE. OK, I do a lot of testing & my Impact MK2 V2 25 cal can push over 110ftlb (over 12fpe at 1 mile) but i normally have it around 70fpe. But the issue being, especially FX (which I love the brand) is the restrictions of South African calibre for air rifles being 22, unless they apply for a license, which the two FX bods state "can't be bothered" so they push & push the limits on 22cal, which is great for FX as it means the introduction of extras that they say you need. 800mm barrel, carbon sleeves, tension systems, tuners etc etc. Then people buy into it. But the problem is, that I have said many times, it's great seeing what can be achieved but too much FPE leads to reduced precision accuracy, which on small game is bad news. Though a monkeys head at 100yds is a massive target. So more FPE less precision. But then they all reduce the energy for competition as they accept precision is better at reduced fpe. Which they don't generally mention. So all the folk who bought into the more more more FPE gimmick start reducing power, as they miss constantly. CZcams is great to edit misses. It's great how the industry has gone & still going but I feel some people are in it for money otherwise transparency would be better. My Impact MK2 is pretty standard, only slug kit, dual port & 720 plenum & the fpe in can produce is way more than needed. The Epoch looks interesting 🙂
ahh you make some very good points. Yep applying more power does lead to problems of accuracy especially depending on the projectile. I was not aware of the limitations in south africa. Thanks again for sharing and watching.
@@ShootingTargets727 pleasure buddy & thank you.
in 10 years we might be pushing .223 status a modded FX Impact is already doing .22 40 grain slugs at 1,040fps
yep and the zues 72 cal is pushing about 1500 FPE as well. I hope this does not blow back on us you know from regulations. Where every bb gun needs a background check.....
Also thanks for commenting and watching.....
Very informative information, thanks for the video, In one of my recent videos I mentioned if you are hunting how much shots do you really need, and how far are you taking the shots with an air rifle, and all reality most people hunt between 30 to 80 yards with an air rifle, to be honest most hunt the same distance with a real rifle so you are right the extra power is really not needed, unless you really trying to reach out there, accuracy is most important to me, shut placement is important to me.
Yep can be said many time for new people taking up the sport.
Great video make your charts bigger so i can see them on my phone wats the fpe for coyote
LOL, the FPE for coyote has changed so much it is not even funny. Like 25 FPE to 35 FPE min. That is for a brain shot.. 50 to 100 FPE or more for body. Hope this helps and will make charts bigger.
@@ShootingTargets727 thank u im glad i subscribed
Its an interesting subject. Smash and rupture overkill or the accurate coup de grace. I think most hunters agree on accuracy but none, especially Bush tucker men, like the idea of vaporizing what could have been a nice meal in thanks for the life of an animal or bird. Smashing creatures into oblivion just seems more the mindless action of a childish video game player, than a mature experienced hunter. In Scotland I filled up my freezer with Rabbits, Wood pigeons and pheasants with a Brocock cartridge air rifle .22. It was the weakest air gun I ever owned. Well under 10fpds. But could easily put the pellets behind the rabbits ear. The birds were a different challenge with this pea shooter. They had to be shot against the grain of their feathers or the pellets simply bounced off. But all this simply emphasizes the excellent points made in this video. Crude Power helps but without accuracy its shooting at fresh air. Tactics are also very important. In winter, roosting birds dont like the cold wing blowing up their feathers. So they face the wind to hold their warmth and fluff out their feathers to improve insulation. Making them more vulnerable to the hunter and pellets that come with the breeze.
Excellent points.... Also gave me an idea for future videos. Thanks again for watching.
@@ShootingTargets727 And thank you. By the way am all for pest control. But I don't really get the idea of a " humane" kill. In my mind, unless you are killing an animal to put it out of some misery and pain, that concept just isn't realistic. We are talking about healthy animals. In some instances perhaps too healthy. But we are taking an innocent form of life. I think what we are really talking about with respect to humane, is our wish to minimize any suffering in our attempt to kill. This brings up the question of suffering and perhaps how long an injured animal might suffer if our shots are not on target. Ultimately this leads to moral and ethical issues. But that risk is always there. I cant say that I have never felt the guilt. Especially when I have taken what didn't have any reason to be taken. Why take a shot at a creature when just as much or more joy can come from a paper target or tin can. Sure! Instant kills are far from guaranteed. But few things are. We will all die in time.. Hats of to the accurate hunter that knows there is only one way to go. And that's b4 the pain impulses even reach the brain. And that's why we want the most accurate rifles and ammo available at the price we can afford. Hunt and shoot with purpose, as I believe you do my friend. The rest is in gods hands.
@@raymondclifton2440 Yes becomes very complex and everybody has their degree of tolerance for those standards. Thanks for chiming in on that as well.
@@ShootingTargets727 Yes very complicated. Almost political in nature. And some moralistic agent will trash me for killing a rat, head shot, but supports war in Europe with missiles and bombs while I only dispatch disease routes with a 10gr pellet. Sums it up! Senseless! 😉🤣
....it`s a maverick................not an impact...............................................
Great Video thank you
May I use the energy chart in my profile ?
Thanks
Yes, I found it out on the web somewhere but they are usually everywhere... Also thanks for tuning in.
Excellent, thank you
You bet thanks for watching…
You keep referring to the rifle in the video as a .177 FX Impact
But the rifle that you have there is an FX Maverick, Not an FX Impact
Yep LoL i caught that later ... my bad.... They look and feel very similar..... Sorry....
@@ShootingTargets727
No worries Bud
Just thought that it would confuse beginners
You can kill an elephant with a .177..It would need about 30-35 J..And a hard pellet like the barracuda... 35 J in .177 has the same joule per mm2 as a cal. 50 with 279,6 J.. Front area of the .177 is 15,9 mm2..The .50 area is. 127 mm2..But there is a very little difference between calibers. My .177 at 32 J can not penetrate 21 mm plywood..My .22 can. But only just .. At 48 J Its the same joule mm2 as the .177.. .48 x 15,9 div. by 23,75 is 32..
Ouch yea never thought about that... Good Points.
@@ShootingTargets727 Well. Nobody does..Thats why .50 and .72 where invented..But it has also to do with max velocity..A .177 barracuda at 930 ftp can not go muth faster and hit where you aim. A .22 barracuda at 930 Fps has about 20 procent more power per mm2. But will be fine with 950-970 fpe..Anyways the difference to a .177 will be +- 5-7 mm on the skull...SO..Aim is everything.
Maverick not impact
Keeping people on their toes.> Yep I thought that was my impact.... oh well....
Maverick 😂
Yep.. lol
How much power...?
Let me guess ...after going thru famous CZcamsrs and reputed airguns shops peddling their stuff it's hands down a tricked out Impact M3 in .30 cal spitting out slugs at 130 ftlb at a ground hog 5 inches tall.
The upside is at 240 FPS on GoPro 8 the footage is detailed and gory.
If you aren't impressed by the hollopoint expansion nothing will .
point is you would rather err on more humane side
Totally agree. I mean do what is right for the person. The point being is that we get fascinated by power vs accuracy. New shooters always ask is it powerful ??? More like is it accurate ??? Thanks for watching...
Good info, but you are ghey for supporting less power as the air rifle tech advances.
Thanks for watching !
If a airgun isn't accurate its not worth shooting high power or not
ohhh yea.....