The Slightly Interesting Origins of the Githyanki - Codex Compliant
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- We've been playing a lot of Baldur's Gate 3 recently, so this video happened.
Featuring the voice of @StellarTemptation
/ stllrtemptation
Analog Game Studies Article:
analoggamestudies.org/2021/10...
Charles Stross Interview:
archive.is/20100208231909/htt...
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“Yes. For better or for worse, the githyanki…are British.”
The delivery on this made me laugh so hard! 😂
Now imagine Lae'zel with a cockney accent.
@@gerardmontgomery280shes already played by a British voice actor with a prominent accent, as it most the cast, so no need to imagine!
Gith tea confirmed
Finally. I was starting to suffer from Snipe and Wib withdrawal.
Snipe and Wibdrawal
😬
A recurring theme on this channel is the slow shift of something by a bunch of 20th century hobbyists having a laugh and being creative into the intellectual property of 21st century corporate giants.
Hobbyists, and the counter-cultural authors of the 60s fantasy/sci-fi fiction. (Deeply connected to the counter-cultural music too - see Moorcock's involvement with Hawkwind etc.)
something something capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself
@@eleanorbrushiabuy this Karl Marx tshirt now!
The more you look into the history of the fantasy and sci-fi novel genre, wargamming, JRPGs, CRPGs, wargaming and trading card games the more astonishing it is how deeply interconnected everything was and feeding off each other.
Something one has to keep in mind is that the TTRPG industry and the wargaming industry are TINY. Like comically small numbers of people who actually have this stuff as their full time job. As such a lot of things are way way more interconnected than people generally think they are. And of course - this is nowadays, 50+ years ago it was even more so.
Not to mention the degree to which fixtures of these industries, that continue to make large sums of money for their rights holders, were created by enthusiastic creatives who have since received far less recognition, compensation, and creator rights than they deserve.
See also superhero comics, and the plethora of creatives (like Jack Kirby and Alan Moore) who, to greater or lesser degree, carried the "Big Two" companies on their backs. Yet did not control the rights to their insanely profitable works or characters. Because Capitalism.
Fun fact: the Hooked Horrors were supposed to be the Minor Daemons of the 5th Chaos God, Malal….
I think that deity deserves his own episode considering the mess he is in canon….
If D&D demon/devil lore wasn't confusing enough as it was...
Do you have a source for this?
I think minor daemons of Malal were inspired by Hook Horrors, they weren't supposed to be them originally
Holy crap, Githyanki and Slaad have been my favourite monsters since 3rd edition - it's mad to know they were the same dude's homebrew!
The war between the Illithid and the Githyanki is by far my favourite part of D&D lore.
Star-Spawn psi-wizards VS dragon riding space-elf raiders.
How do you beat that?!
Don’t forget about the Githzerai! Equally important to the equation imo but often left behind due to their lack of presence in BG3. :’ D
*Time-travelling* psi-wizard starspawn
Don’t forget also the 3rd faction, The Pirates of Gith sailing around in Space!
Don’t forget also the 3rd faction, The Pirates of Gith sailing around in Space!
4:56
George RR Martin: Gith have radical approaches to family dynamics and thinks incest is taboo
Karlach is bae! On an unrelated note, it is genuinely good to see Snipe looking so much better.
As someone who has been slowly making his way through The Laundry Files series of books (which is excellent and I would highly recommend), seeing Charles Stross pop up here was both surprising and interesting.
It's interesting that, not only did some of those Fiend Folio monsters become Actual D&D mainstays. They actually had toys made of some from LJN in the eighties. The Grell, and Hook Horror were some of my favorites.
Charlie Stross! 😲😄👍
Russ Nicholson's artwork was always cool, creepy and characterful.
Thanks for another fun video.
Russ died last year. He'll be greatly missed.
"Let's use something new to talk about something from the 70s"
I wouldn't to have seen many of their videos yet, but I feel like that summaries this channel pretty well.
I was enchanted by the Githyanki since getting the 3e monster manual. It's neat to hear their real world backstory! :D
Time to make a AOS Githyanki Army
I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the discussion about whether or not they're 'canon' with a GW store manager or tournament rep.
@@MrMortull let's make this happen 😂
It feels ... off that a creative competition for a magazine dovetailed into an official element still used (and monetized) decades later.
Just feels icky.
Good to see you guys; you both look great!!
brief note on the Githzerai, since they're brought up a bit briefly:
For a time, the Githzerai really were just the Chaotic Neutral version of the Githyanki, dwelling in the setting's plane of chaos and generally just acting like their more established cousins. Not quite as detailed as one would hope. Then a game (I hesitate to call it that because most games don't have a script you could beat the game designer to death with) called Planescape: Torment came out, and introduced people to Dak'kon. He's an anomaly amongst his githzerai kin, by being a Lawful Neutral warrior-monk. And much like how the existence of Drizzt was a major boost to the amount of playable underdark characters in general (let alone getting into how many drow rangers started showing up), Dak'kon pretty much reinvented Githzerai.
Now, they're a usually Lawful Neutral race who picked the plane of chaos to live in as a test of their psychic abilities and mental fortitude, creating homes for themselves through the collective mental effort of their warrior-monks.
Which is better than, "Githyanki, but chill with frogs." I guess.
While it's kind of unfortunate that a single character intentionally meant to be deviant from their parent species ends up being the template for all future depictions, original authorial intent be damned, I can't say the Githzerai aren't more interesting now.
I wouldn't complaing if frogs returned tho
So I'm like 2 months late but I only now noticed that the study referenced here from Analog Game Studies is written by Thomas Apperley and Ian Sturrock, with whom I'm now writing about a very similar subject in a study project. Small world!
Flail snail is adorable
I've just seen this Snipe and Wib video, after a day!
Hurrah.
I knew you had to cover this at some point seeing they got their start in fiend factory😊
In case you haven't seen them already, one of the BG3 voice artists has released her out-takes and bloopers. Last time I checked there were five videos, each a few minutes long.
Also, hope all went well with the move. Unless it hasn't happened yet, then good luck!
Interestingly, if you check that glossary for "Dying of the Light" you'll also see it features a settlement called Baldur. I wonder if Ed Greenwood, creator of the Forgotten Realms, was similarly inspired, or just picked the name independently?
Baldur (also Baldr, Baldar) is a Nordic/Icelandic god, so the name makes sense in European-Inspired fantasy, I doubt it needed GRR Martin to get the name into D&D
@@zhouenlai2569 Yeah, I'm aware of that, hence the suggestion it could well have been an independent choice. That said, it's interesting that both feature in the same book.
Charles Stross also wrote a 40K story, about a world preparing for occupation by the Imperium. It was pretty good. His current book series would also be appealing to many of this channels viewers, about life in a nightmare authoritarian demon haunted Britain. Very topical.
This is perfect timing, its been getting tiring ranting to people about this history since BG3 came out, playing a video as I stare unblinking at them will be much easier
The Githyanki and Githzerai have been one of my favourite races since Planescape. I've since gotten a copy of the Fiend Folio, and it's one of my go-to monster manuals when running Swords & Wizardry.
The power and glory of codex compliance returns!
This was great! If you guys are up for it, I'd love to see you cover more old DnD and TTRPG sourcebooks.
Great video. I originally came to your channel for 40k content but these looks at gaming history are fun. And I absolutely love that piece of music from the optional boss fight.
Thanks guys. You always fill my heart with cosiness. And good luck and all the best wishes for your moving endeavor.
So great to see a video - love you guys
So glad to have seen you covered this!
You guys actually were the reason I knew this stuff already - since your video on the Fiend Factory sent me to go check out what other stuff got made from it.
Lae’zel is a bae - the Githyanki stuff is easily the best part of BG3 imo - spot on in every regard with their weird warrior aspects perfectly captured.
The Githyanki are my favourite DnD race, and their lore is one of the most weird and interesting pieces of writing in the setting. My favourite campaign PC is definitely my own Gith outcast.
Loving it as always and looking forward to next time! Maybe some old world related content?
would love to see you guys make videos about battletech, those early books have tons of interesting details
amazing, I loved the bit about Ian Livingston's monsters as well
Very interesting, and good for you two, playing a game you like and turning into ‘tent 😅🙏🏾
I knew they were in Fiend Folio, didn't know about the rest of it, brilliant stuff.
This is quite interesting. A step up from slightly interesting. It raises questions about copyright, namely corporate pursuit and claim of copyright, particularly on things dreamed up by creative people, and based on so many separate influences. Do Hasbro "own" Gythyanki? I bet they think they do.
I think it's fascinating that if you pear back far enough you can find the individual human contributions to something that seems to be a monolithic corporately produced product now
Good luck with the move! :)
2:29 Wait, freeze-framing on that background, I also see the Berbalang, the Gazer, the Eye Killer, and the Living Wall. They're all _White Dwarf_ monsters?
...somehow, that makes sense.
Edit: For clarification - they're the style of monster that looks goofy on paper but is a lot of fun to use at the table, provided the people you're gaming with have at least a bit of a sense of humour. As exemplified by the legandary Sheet Phantom, at 11:13
Huh, this turned up just as I was re-reading Charles Stross... I'm currently up to the Delirium Brief
You two talking about old sci fi novels would bring me greatest joy
First Playthrough I romanced Gale and then Karlach in my next.
For the record, I've loved the Fiend Folio since it fell in to my sweaty teenage hands all those years ago. I had never made the connection that it was, in fact, THAT C. Stross, though! And, uh, Lae'zel, obvs 🧐
love the OG Baldur's Gate music at the end
also this video is totally on brand with the rest. old nerdorana niche stuff tick
You are so delightfully british. Also, I am amazed at how convoluted so many parts of nerdy RPG/wargaming universe lore always is, and many thanks to you for untangling this again and again and making such entertaining videos about it!
.... you don't plan to return Snipe&Wib play for one episode of you playing Baldur's Gate 1, to see if you can beat that first mission after all?
The gith, both Zeri and Yanki, show up in Planescape Torment as well. There, if you have the Zeri companion and try to talk to a Yanki, all you get is a death stare and a suggestion that it might not be the best thing to do.
Wasn't he also the only character in the whole game with A SWORD?
@@CaptainTrollbeard Yes he was!
There is the other sword that you can get (from the ?Planatar?) that morphs into your chosen weapon type.
Best wishes to you both in your new home
oh that old baldurs gate soundtrack hit hard in the end
My beautiful Dragonborn druid is romancing the heck out of karlach. She's absolutely gorgeous and me, and my druid, are head over heels for her.
Edit: it's good to see you more well again snipe.
Yay! Most of the bestest series on the interwebs!... Well, in close competition with Ian's candle videos
I love the OG Githiyanki hairdo with the scorpion tail mullet.
How in the world do they lay eggs that big!?
Carefully.
Not sure how you feel about it Snipe, but I like this short style you're wearing! Obvsis it's just the situation, but yeah! Looks good!
Hope the move goes well!
well me glad you got bettter neat stuff on this vid and tune to new as do new
Thank you.
They were indeed one of the best "fully formed" entries in the old D&D monster manual and other such books; and thus insertable as your overarching villain, nemesis, foil, unlikely allies, whatever. BG3's writers ran with this in much the same way many of my old GM's did. I think we had at least three campaigns that revolved around or at least intersected with the war between the Gith and the Illithid. And at least one of those was before Spelljammer was a thing, IIRC.
I believe you should employ the full time services of the Cencor Flail-Snail in case of an errant nude thing in these old magazines.
My first exposure to the Githyanki and in particular Lae'zel, was in Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms. I'm starting to get the impression that there seem to be very few actually original characters in that game, it's pretty much all licensed characters from popular online campaigns and other pre-existing characters.
In my old dnd campaign my Ranger lawman loves his doggo, his doggo loves him, togeather they fight crime as the bestest of buds and have tried to arrest a God and a Lord of the Abyss. Didn't go very well, but they're having a nice time nonetheless.
Hope the house move goes smoothly!
I never new the Githyanki were essentially homebrew!
Another excellent vid UwU
Wild to think that you're hombrew could be a beloved playable race 40 decades later.
Romancing Minthara, my queen
It's kinda hilariously amazing how many inspirations you talked about for the Githyanki, and in the end Star Wars didn't come up once, considering that's usually what people tend to look at them with the lens of now: Githyanki are the martial types and Githzarai are the more psionic-focused, aka bladecraft and the Force to the layman.
did you guys see that ebay listing for the GW training binder
Love me some Charles Stross. For mine, the Laundry Files vampires are uniquely nasty, and his tendency to big ridiculous finales is just glorious (Spoiler warning, but Concorde and the Dyson Engine make everything in the respective series that precedes them marvellous).
Interesting!
That one boss fight with That Piece Of Music was so good that I honestly think there may have been a version of Baldur's Gate 3 early in production where That Boss was the big bad of the game. I have no evidence to support this other than That Piece Of Music is just too damn good for an optional fight that players can easily miss.
Talk about Stross more, then we can add him to the "Snipe and Wib drinking game"™ because hammered is never quite hammered enough
On the romancing side, the goal was to be a bit loose shall we say, had been simultaneously romancing Shadowheart, Laezel and Karlach.
Laezel put out fairly early though and the other two where then forlorn that my heart belonged to another ...
Tried explain 'No it really doesnt' ... but wasn't happening ... dang it.
CC, gw and Bg3 today is a good day :)
Good luck with your move guys 😁
I love Laezel, commenting for algorithm
The hand of white dwarf casts a great shadow on RPGs.
Oh yeah, flail snail is too silly, but the corrosive square of jello that is the gelatinous cube is perfectly normal and in no sense a farce.
The Fiend Folio was released here in the United States in 1981 not 1991. There was a 2nd edition printed in 1991. And Karlach 4 Life.
hey y'all! /waves from Florida
I wish I got my hands on my father's Fiend Folio before he got rid of it.
Apropos of nothing, I will also bring up that I've been playing LANCER, a skirmish heavy mech battle RPG, and having a lot of fun with it. I think next will be Cities Without Number on my new narrative table!
Dying of the Light is a pretty good novel btw; actually like it better than the main series he's known for.
Huh, always felt that they had a slight Elric/Moorcock tinge to them.
My Drow Bard (Seldarine Female, but wish there was deity option for non-Cleric since she worship Eilistraee) who had a fling with Astarion out of curiosity.
Still, I wonder if Waterdeep would be a sequel. Maybe Githzerai instead of Githyanki, and maybe prominence of Seldarine Drows since the city have a temple dedicated to Eilistraee, a birthday suit wearing Drow goddess dedicated to Drows who think that being nice person is better option than spider lady.
What is that wraith-like creature called at 11:10? I can't read the font. Does it say Withra? Witeira? Witiira? I can't find anything with any of those names on the internet
But why did they have lumpy joints?
Having grown up with (I assume they were LJN products?) a rubber Grell and a plastic Hook Horror action-figures, I can't believe they were both White Dwarf inclusions in the D&D canon! Ha!
They make me think Aeldarii because of similar personalities.
I hoped somebody would tell me about Githyankis, I never dared hope it would be Snipe and Wib.
Yeah the Githyanki were 100% taken from Martin and then in turn taken from WD. Its why some of us are spikey about them not being included in the OGL because they are totally not TSR/Wizards IP.
My Barbarian has ended up with Lae'zel - I was trying for Shadowheart, but evidently Green Michael Jackson lookalikes float his boat... 🙂
Karlach, good choice.
the githyanki are british is the best thing i have learnt from this channel
I hate how they try to make githyanki almost good looking nowadays 😂
Very interesting. Now: CHAOS 3.5. Just do it. Please. You've done Xenos and Imperial Scum from the same era. Time to address the GREATEST CODEX EVER IMHO.
There's some silly stuff in the Fiend Folio, certainly, but it's an interesting and useful inclusion to any 1st-ed collection - and anybody with anything to say about the flail snail can meet me in the parking lot.
hell yeag
I'm roleplaying a monk who has taken a vow of celibacy in my current playthrough. Lae'zel seems to have misinterpreted this as a challenge.....
God I love Charles Stross, he's such a weirdo (affectionate)