Royal Marine Reacts To The M1 Garand
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- Original Video (The M1 Garand - Feat. Garand Thumb)
• The M1 Garand - Feat. ...
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The white claw thing started where they just shot the flavors they didnt like and then it just became a whole thing
during kovid 19
Whiteclaw is also garbage drinks. Its just beer that doesn't taste like beer. In the 90s - 00s we had similar products and they were called alcopops by the pearl clutchers. Mostly because they were seen for a way that young people could over drink who wouldn't drink older drinks that weren't marketed to teens.
@@narr0wm1nd49 nah its a seltzer, mostly sparkling water with alcohol in it. Veery different to beer 😅
@@TGBattyCrease it's basically regulated like beer as it has a similar alcohol content. It's beer for people that don't drink beer and that's why people say it's marketed to children
@@narr0wm1nd49children hate the taste of seltzer water typically
The Gun that Changed the World by Mikhail Kalashnikov. Kalashnikov also wrote a few other obscure books and wrote poetry (he originally wanted to be a poet instead of joining the Red Army, but he did continue to write poetry for the rest of his life).
Love my 1944 M1 Garand; as a WW2 buff, I have it with me on the couch whenever I rewatch Band of Brothers
“This is my rifle this is my gun; this is for fighting this is for fun!!”
Emotional support M1
Same, buy when I watch Porkchop Hill.
Interesting Fact:
The British tested one prior to WW2 and they were not impressed.
Nevertheless, the British Commandos of WW2 were the only ones that used the M1 Garand. Seven units were issued with the rifle but only one retained it in the Korean War.
Imagine not being impressed and being that wrong lmao
@@BullsMahunnyit happens
Lets be fair though this is a military who saw submachine guns in WW1 and thought "who'd need those" then panic bought Thompsons for gold in the late 30s, not really a marker of sensible thinkers.
Standard British cartridge was .303 and the Garand is .30-06. That means two supply chains for ammo and parts. They wanted to keep logistics as simple as possible. Just like all NATO countries use the same ammo for everything.
@@TheAlexagius well the Austrian painter said rifles were stupid and only making SMGs were the future. maybe he shot some and didnt like the recoil. Im not usually a hateful person but what a lil bich
The book he was talking about was "The Gun that Changed the World" by Mikael Kalashnikov(the inventor of the AK-47 series).
Yeah the M-1 was in service for a long time. But people forget the M-16/M-4 series have now been in service for 60 years!
to add, the longest service weapon in use is the 50 cal, its been in service now over 100 years (directly replaced the browning machine gun) while invented in 1910, wasn't adapted until like 1926.
Also,
the marine sword has been in use since before the civil war.
Versions of the SMLE were in service longer.
Even the L85 has had a longer service life than the M1, probably suggesting it isnt a great metric 😬
@@BusbyBiscuits Fair, but you know how us Yanks like to spend money on this stuff
Bro...at 10:29 Brandon literally says "Kalashnikov talks about it in his book" in reference to how Kalashnikov got inspiration from the M1 when he designed the AK...so I hope you can appreciate that many of us yelled at the screen when you went to look for the book and could not find it due to not knowing the author RIGHT AFTER HE SAID THAT!
😂😂
Yea he has a couple of books when I googled it. I wanted to know which one haha
@@OriginalHuman The book is called "The Gun that Changed the World" by Mikhail Kalashnikov
I was going to post something about drugs and YouTubing but decided it might be taken wrong.:)
yeah first google search after i typed in "book about AK's by Kalashnikov"
Oh, bought a M1 Garand a long time ago, yes if you don't pull the bolt all the way back, A:you can't get the clip in, B: if you stick your thumb in the breech, the bolt will release and hit your thumb hard, hense the term "Garand thumb"
As long as you keep your thumb on the top mounted round in the Enbloc clip, you're fine, but the second it slips off, the Garand demands blood.
@@danielhenderson8316 just remember to bring the bolt completely to the rear, if not you'll learn to do it next time.
@@terrycarter1137 it’s self correcting.
a lot of equipment from this era seems to want a blood sacrifice to use it. i recently bought a 1927 pattern thompson, and the combination of a stiff recoil spring and the knurling on the charging handle has chewed up the inner face of my thumb below the pad itself.
Watch Ian with forgotten weapons. He goes over the history of everything gun related.
In service until 1957 but still being used after that. MY father was in the army in the early 60s and it was still around then. It was my fathers favorite rifle to shoot and got my love for the Garand from him.
Correct. The Garand was in use by some US forces in Vietnam until about 1965, and throughout the war by ARVN, VC and PAVN troops and militia. I saw Philippine civil militia types packing the Garand in the 90's. Once asked a company c/o of Philippine militia why they did not pack the domestic manufactured Armalite rifles as opposed to their Garands. He replied, "Sir, our job is to kill communists, not wound them."
Ian McCollum with his channel “forgotten weapon”. He is excellent with his break down of the weapons features and history.
this right here...can't recommend this channel enough for his in depth break down of any weapon you want to know about...or weapons you didn't know you want to know about. lol
I never get tired of the iconic ping. It's like an old fashioned cash register. The m1 is so cool. I like the look of it too.
an old M1 is surprisingly light and easy to clean. theres a reason we still like it
For Memorial Day this year, I took my 13-year-old to the range to give him his first trigger time on my M1 Garand. We had a great time, and he went from getting his front foot lifted off the ground with every shot, to happily and (reasonably) comfortably shooting it.
The cleaning gear is stored in the butt of the rifle. Rods screw together. I bought one for its historical value but it turns out that it’s the BEST gun to shoot. LOVE it!
A 21-year service life is actually not long at all. The AR platform has been in service since the 60s.
While officially adopted in 1936, being in the middle of the Great Depression, most of the front line service rifles in the US military were still 1903 Springfield bolt actions at the start of US entry into WWII in 1941-42. My Dad, a Army ranger (36th "T" Division) still was carrying a Springfield when we hit the North African beaches at the end of 1942.
The infamous affliction of "Garand Thumb" only happens ONCE, it's almost a 'rite of passage' to new M1 rifle owners.
I remember tagging along with my brother to an indoor range with his M1 Garand, all the folks shooting their 9mm pistols stopped dead to rights when this thing goes off.
This is a seriously powerful and fun firearm.
I have owned my M-1 Garand rifle since 1988. I use for Deer Hunting with a 5 round En Bloc clip. As for being service period of time, my states National Guard were still using them up into the early 1970s. And is still for most purposes I viable rifle to this day.
The rifles had a basic cleaning kit under the butt pad. Taking the stock off didn't happen during field cleaning per my understanding. It wasn't needed and removing the stock negatively affects accuracy.
I was at the range a few weeks back I was able to shoot a 1943 M1 Garand that was definitely used in WWII ! It was an absolute honor to shoot such an iconic weapon ! Damn did it kick but man was it intoxicating to do so
What they didn’t mention is the M-1 had probably one of the best rear sights on any military rifle at the time. It was easy to adjust for elevation and windage in one MOA increments.
Because the boys like their hard seltzer but the case is a mix pack and not all flavors are created equally lol.
Shittiest part about the Garand is the Germans knew when they heard the ping you had to reload. American GI's would throw a random clip on the ground to get Germans to peek when they actually weren't out of ammo yet.
That has been proven to be simply untrue, for the following reasons:
1. The ping actually comes from the clip passing out through the top of the receiver as it is being ejected. When the clip hits the ground you hear nothing. Rerun the video and watch the clip and where it is when you hear the ping, and you will see that the clip is just exiting the receiver when you hear it.
2. When you were in a battle and using the M1, you were in a group of eight or more other guys and they are all firing their rifles, the enemy is firing their rifles, and none of you were wearing hearing protection. You were all temporarily deafened. None of you were going to hear that ping.
The origin of this story has been traced back to an Army Ordnance guy named Roy Dunlap, who eventually wrote a book that I recall was titled something like Ordnance Goes Forward. He heard the ping story from a soldier on Guadalcanal, and just repeated it in his book.
The M-1 was originally in 30-06 but near the end of their "service" the navy had some M-1's in .308
I have TWO M1 Garands. The first is a WWII-era rifle made by Springfield Armory (The real Springfield Armory founded during the George Washington administration, and finally closed by Sec Def Robert Strange McNamara after the M14 debacle.) But I digress (Hey, I'm 71 years old, and a tendency to digress is not only excusable, but is actually expected!). Now, where was I? Oh yeah. My other M1 was made by Harrington and Richardson for the Korean War, but the war ended before they could ever actually use any of the H&R rifles in Combat!
But back to M1 Thumb. I've never caught a case of M1 Thumb, but I did get a case of M1 Pinky-finger. I was cleaning one of my rifles after a range session, and after reassembling it, and while performing a function check, I noticed a piece of lint from a cleaning patch on the magazine follower. Without thinking I reached my little finger in to whisk the piece of lint away, when CLACK! The bolt released and attempted chambering my right pinky!
I can run my finger over the nail and can still feel the little ridge on y fingernail, after 40 years or so.
By the way, I purchased both of my M1 rifles, as well as an M1 Carbine, via the mail, directly from the U.S. Goverment Civilian Marksmanship Program, as established by President Theodore Roosevelt, to encourage civilian familiarity with military rifles and marksmanship practice.
And the CMP shipped them directly to my house, as well as a couple of crates of suitable ammo. Cool, huh?
I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.
I think the book he mentioned is "The gun that changed the world" - Mikhail Kalashnikov
I think it’s that one also
little fun fact the germans liked the sound of the ping as well. SOO MUCH SO that the US GIs would just throw the clips on the ground to recreate the ping sound making the germans think the US was out of AMMO
I’ve held out of service M1 Garands back in high school and yes they have a heft to them. And accidentally gave myself Garand thumb don’t recommend.
according to the fat electrician. garand thumb is a weaponization of the fight or flight mechanism 😂😂😂😂
@@jeremyaudet3810 Now everyone's getting their ass beat
I have an M1 Garand myself. From the serial number, mine was made in February 1945, so while it is possible it saw WWII service, it likely didn't. Maintenance isn't hard at all. It is quite large compared to more modern military rifles, and fires a much more powerful cartridge. The length and weight takes some getting used to after carrying M-16/M-4 variants in the military. But for World War II it was considerably better than the bolt action rifles that were standard issue for other countries.
Forgotten Weapons would be a good place to learn the history of various weapons, along with a look at the important design features. In this video, while discussing the pronunciation of "Garand", Brandon refers to Ian (McCollum) who runs Forgotten Weapons. The M1 is pretty ubiquitous, and Ian has videos on several variants of the rifle.
Good chance it did in Korea
The M1 rifle had a cleaning kit that was housed in a compartment in the butt of the rifle. There was a hinged cover in the steel butt plate. It contained a segmented cleaning rod with cleaning jag and oil/cleaning fluid. The rifle as you seen was easy to field strip and clean.
In WWII wood was plentiful and used whenever possible. Steel and other materials were needed for manufacturing of other stuff where wood was not suitable.
If you want history and maintenance watch Ian McCollum on forgotten weapon
Ian's done several Garand videos, but to my knowledge only about weird variations and specific issues. Don't think you can get an overview from that source.
@@mikepeterson9362right. People forget that his channel is called FORGOTTEN Weapons for a reason and 90% of his videos are about shit most people haven’t ever heard of. The M1 is far from forgotten.
One day C&Rsenal will come out with a Garand video with everything there is to know about the rifle.
Totally, totally right dude-from-Arkansas. 🙂
Yes and for NORMAL people, it happens ONCE. Happened to me once, my thumb swelled up so much they had to put a hole in my thumbnail to released the blood. NEVER AGAIN. Still my favorite rifle, speaks with authority.
I learned to shoot when I was 9 on an M-1. It's still my favorite rifle. The one I bought a few years ago was stamped in the International Harvester factory. I've never had Garand thumb (daddy taught me right), but the en bloc has hit me in the head a few times when it was ejected.
This reminds me of something my grandfather had said of his time on Guadalcanal with the army. They had to be extra extremely careful with their M1s and steel pot helmets as there were many enterprising (marines I believe) that would seek to upgrade from the Springfield in unorthodox ways. Wish now I had heard those details among much else during that was experienced during those years of service
Cadets and midshipmen carried the Garand up into the 1970s. It was not difficult to clean, but keeping the stock shiny was difficult.
Mr K also borrowed from Browning. The safety on the AK is the same as the Remington Model 8, which first came onto the market in 1906. The rifle is very accurate and was further developed into the M-14 and the Italians did some modifications on them too. They are also the basis for the Ruger Mini 14.
That eject ping🤤..got it as a notification tone lol
General Mikhail Kalashnikov acquired an M1 early in WWII and loved the way the rifle ran. He began working on improvements in 1942, and five years later produced the Automat Kalashnikov '47.
George Patton called the Garand, "The finest battle implement ever devised by man."
I love my M1 Garand. I started collecting firearms three years ago, and the M1 Garand is by far my favorite firearm to shoot.
My late father-in-law trained with the Garand. He was training for the invasion of Japan, before VJ day. Later in life his sons bought him a Garand.
I love the Krink propped up behind him
My supervisor’s son got him an M-1 Garand for Christmas one year and it shot like a house a fire. Upon checking the bore and rifling’s, he found it to be a National Match Rifle. Man what a bonus. He was able to get a beautiful Walnut stock for it later on, plus an original bayonet. As an aside, I’ve got two hunting knives that were made from Garand Bayonets on the island Tinian for my wife’s father by a Marine gunsmith. A family treasure.
IIRC the M1 stayed in some army national guard units till 1970 (?). When they were replaced by the M16A1
Yes..the M1 had a custom cleaning kit stored in the but stock
Actually, the M1 Grand was still in use by the U.S. Navy well into the 1970s and possibly longer in some cases. I know this because I had to train and qualify with one in boot camp in the 70s. I also carried an M14 as a Sea Bee before transitioning to the M16.
It is easy to clean and maintain, robust, and hard to damage. Plus you can use a hunter's carry to move with the M1 Garand. You can watch old WW2 videos to see the hunter's carry. The rifle is held in one hand at its balance point barrel pointing forward towards the target. Your finger is away from the trigger so, if you trip and fall, you will not accidentally fire the rifle. It is fast to bring up into action and it frees the other hand for other things
To avoid Garand-thumb you used the blade of your right hand to hold or block the operating rod to the rear while you pushed the clip in with your thumb. You then quickly pulled your hand away to the side (90% to the receiver), allowing the bolt to close with full force. That is one reason why the operating rod handle is shaped the way it is. To fit the blade of the palm.
I carried (and kept shiny) a leaded barrel M1 for 3 years as a cadet. Made it even heavier. Forrest Gump set a Unit record for dissamebling/reasemmbling an M-1 in Basoc Training.
The M14 automatic rifle is the direct descendant of the M1 garand. It is an automatic magazine fed version of the M1
We called that injury a "purple thumb" because of the bruise that resulted in incorrect usage of the M-1. There always seemed that one guy who didn't pay attention to the instructor.
they say that the Garand won the war as American soldiers we're equipped with semi rifles as the German soldiers we're using Mauser 98k bolt action rifle since 1898...
one in a line of weapons developed with pride at the Springfield Armory and nearby small arms pioneers including smith, wesson, colt, remington, winchester, savage, browning and more.
Best reaction channel with best gun channels, perfect video to watch chillin and munchin on some snacks
My favorite fact about the M1 Garand is that every European nation, except for like Swedes and Norwegians, thought it was too heavy and had too much recoil. Same thing also with the Colt 1911 except Norway also adopted it as a service pistol along with the U.S.
Heavier than a Mauser, sure, but recoil? The recoil on the M1 is very tolerable, especially compared to any large caliber bolt action rifle. Also an 8rd en bloc is better then a 5 rd stripper. Sounds like they were making excuses.
I have a few of these awesome rifles. Never got garand thumb as my pop taught me to always keep the side of my hand on the charging handle.
My dad and I bought an M1 together before he died. I love it so much we marched our hunting rifles to the M1 so we all hunt with a 30.06. If have never used an M1 it is worth the price of admission as it is really fun!
You can buy a Military surplus M-1 Garand. You have to go through the "Civilian Marksmanship Program" or CMP. They offer M1911A1 Pistols, M-1 Carbines, M-1 Garands, M-1903's (bolt action from WW1), and M1917 Lee Enfields. Some of these are for ceremonial purposes and are rendered non-firing. The M-1 Garands are always in stock. $1,100 to $1,500 depending on the manufacturer, Remington, Winchester, etc.
In 1980 I bought 2 M1s at a garage sale at the age of 13 for 50 dollars that I borrowed from my dad. Aw× the good old days..😊
13:51 "I wonder how accurate it was."
The US military uses a 500 meter range for qualifications.
I shot expert every time I went with an M-16.
M-1's were used as sniper rifles in Nam and the Sandbox.
Back in the UK during the 80's, I had a friend in my gun club that had a beat up surplus M1, it cost him 50 quid!
My stepdad learned the M1 grand in Officer, Basic Training back in the day. For the tampon story that relates to this, read on…
All military bases have, or rather had, shopettes (RIP the PX/BX system). we would go there for simple supplies. Shoe polish, soap, paper and pens, etc.. These places were tailored to the location. So when an all male basic training unit had tampons in the store, it raised questions! The answer was simple: M1 grand but stock padding!😂😂😂
I have 2 Garands, and I have never smashed my thumb in the bolts of them. I have several vintage WWI & WWII rifles, M1903A3, M1917 Enfield, M1 Carbine, but my Garands are my favorite. Also, I have a Springfield Armory Inc. M1A, which is a semi-automatic version of the M-14. The M-14 is very similar to the M1 Garand.
Oh yeah, the M1 Garand (9.5 lbs.) is a beefy bit of wood. It handles well, though, and the balance is nice.
OH, he's probably referencing to Mikhail Kalashnikov's autobiography "The Gun that changed the World"
Yes, the proper pronunciation of John Cantius Garand's name is closer to GARE-und. The reason that I am so firmly convinced of this is that I have actually heard the man himself pronounce it that way, in a film of a speech that he gave, and he started out by introducing himself to the audience. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'm confident that he knew the proper pronunciation of his name.
As Mr. Garand was actually French-Canadian, from the province of Quebec, and thus was a native French speaker. His family emigrated to the U.S. when he was a child, and as a result he actually pronounced his name with a little bit of a French accent, with the "-und" syllable pronounced in a sort of nasal manner with the last 'd' being silent.
I'm sure that the pronunciation became "Americanized" due to the fact that at the time of the rifle's adoption it was long before there was easy widespread access to audible recording, and any documents and information regarding the rifle was propagated by on-paper documentation.
oh man my stepfather has one of these and its a beefy fucker in terms of weight, an excellent blunt object if you run out of ammo lmao.
if i remember right the soviet union got one of these in the 40s and recalled how heavy it was
The Garand can be very accurate - it did very well at the Camp Perry competitions for years - like any other style, the individual guns vary but on the whole they were quite accurate for a semi. Also, it was still the regular issue rifle for the Korean War and still in wide-spread use at the beginning of Vie tNam.
If you want to start a collection, maybe the British contemporary Lee Enfield Rifle is a place to start. Being bolt action, it’s probably still legal even in the UK.
Brandon has some videos in the 249, M60, and the dinner plate machine guns and are excellent
It would be really nice to do a video on the Springfield, and the Enfield, military rifles, of the US.
Bought my “Mr. Tiger Stripes” Garand a month ago. 48 rounds down the tube. It kicks but damn fun to shoot. The thing was made between July-November 1944. This had me buying a complete set of U.S. GI outfit, uniform and equipment set to compliment the Garand. Go figure.
It was also a big influence on the M14 . They have the same bolt design.
They probably use White Claw it because it was what they had on hand and a trend was formed, because that was what he had on had those times, too.
Some were also used in Vietnam my grandpa had one in 1963.
Nice haircut
also I can't believe you skipped the Garand ping
During WWII, General George Patton called the M1 Garand, “the greatest battle implement ever devised.” Garand Thumb did a video on modern Russian body armor and helmets, and of all the guns they tested, the M1 Garand with its 30.06 round was the only one to completely and quite easily penetrate the armor.😉 At least, that's the way I recall the video.🤔 BTW, the hair looks great (high & tight, as we used to call it in my line of work).😉 "Garand thumb" (or M1 thumb) is a term that was coined during WWII for the very common injury incurred after an improperly loaded clip.
Carried a Garand in boot camp in 1985.
In what military were they still giving you garands in 85??
@@CharlieFoxtrot128 more so for ceremonial purposes, they have M1 garands and M14s which are only for ceremonial purposes or if you are a tomb guard.
If its boot camp he'll be carrying an M16 A2
@@Chris09978 garands stopped being ceremonial weapons forever ago. It’s all either the M14 or M1903 now
@@CharlieFoxtrot128 it's still used mostly so as a military funeral. I still them used as that but other ceremonial stuff it's mostly the springfiels yoy mentioned and the M14
@@Chris09978 all the pics and vids ive seen on the 21 gun salute are using M14s. at quick glance they look like M1s because sometimes theyll use shorter magazines but you can see the difference in handguard, the selector switch, and the flash hider, making them M14s, not Garands.
If you want some good history videos on the Garand, Ian (that was joked by Brandon in the video) of Forgotten Weapons has a few videos on the Garand and it's stages of development from it's 1924 Primer Actuated 276 Pedersen design, to it's Gas Trapped variant, the iconic 30-06 one we know of, and some prototypes (like a magazine fed prototype), along with the Japanese Type 4 (a Japanese copy of the Garand)
I'm 70. I still can't used to the idea of a plastic stock rifle or shotgun. Rifles and shotguns are supposed to have gorgeous hand rubbed walnut stocks.
This has been know to be effective and accurate at 1000 yrd
I dont know the book title that he's talking about specifically, but he did say, "Kalishnikov talked about it in his book..."
i think the book is "The Gun that Changed the World" by mikhail kalashnikov. he talks about his life, his time in the war and how he designed the AK.
The CZcams channel Forgotten Weapons has many videos on firearms history sometimes explaining the weapons development, history, engineering, and disassembly. It's an amazing channel.
Brandon takes a shot at Ian at 5:15. Small community. I get the impression that Ian is really quick reloading the M1, including slapping the bolt forward in case it's fasting that day.
I have pictures of the kit that came with the gun it was stored in a capsule under the but plate
The firepower disparity between a US rifle squad with it's semiautomatic Garands and the squad leader's Thompson in 45 ACP vs a German squad with bolt action rifles and maybe a 9mm SMG.
No wonder the Germans were so reliant on their squad level machine guns with ridiculously high rates of fire to compensate, to the point where their entire infantry doctrine hinged on it.
I love my National Match Garand. It lets me shoot better than I have a right to.
If you want to learn more about the history of the M1 Garand just get the dvd titled America's Rifle The M1 Garand !!!
If you want to find out a lot about the Garand in a very short amount of time.
There's a CZcams channel called Ahoy, he focuses on video game history, but his most famous series is called iconic arms, and it's what you might expect if you've watched forgotten weapons. Except way shorter and way more manageable with superb script writing and visuals. And within the context of video games and film.
Highly recommend.
when my dad served, he could hit a 2 inch target at 300 yards with the M1. The 30-06 could kill a man at 1000 yards (though you did have to hit him first 😁)
Firearm development is often times iterating and improving on what came before. Like how so many modern military rifles are using an action that is basically identical to an AR18... There are a few designers in history that would come up with things that were genuinely different than what came before, but was also game changing in that it influenced designers that followed. Browning and Stoner are examples.
Garand thumb... Yeah, if you do not reload the rifle properly, while you are pressing in the clip, the bolt will close while your thumb is still in the breech area.
And whiteclaw sucks is why... It just became a memefor them after a while.
You seem to ask a lot of questions that are answered later in the video. MY BROTHER!
Yes, at 9.5 lbs (410 kg), and that's unloaded. Imagine having to lug that thing around along with a bandolier full of 8 round clips of 30.06 ammo.
You should watch his videos on the the British "Tube" Sten and the US Grease Gun, as well as the Thompson, MG3 or 43 since he's stated they're both the same just one has NATO ammo. There's also recently he did a breakdown of the STG-44.
I love my M1 Garand M1 Carbine and my M1 Thompson (Semiautomatic) I also have an M1A1 Semiautomatic version of the M14
This is high on my list of next historical rifle to buy.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) sells surplus military weapons, including the Garand. They have stores in Alabama and Ohio, and sell several grades of the Garand. As I recall, you have to belong to an affiliated gun club to buy from them. I assume you're in the UK, so I don't know if or how you could buy one here in the U.S.
As far as accuracy goes there are videos on here of guys testing the m1 with the old 40s/50s scope and hitting targets at over 700 meters.
woah luke, back with the short hair. i like it loads mate. suits ya
The AK platform was developed off of the German STG 44 (Assault Rifle 44). Any similarities to the M-1 Rifle are purely coincidental.