Quiet replacement gears for my South Bend lathe
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- čas přidán 11. 04. 2024
- Printerdoctor: info@printerdoctor.com
Made to order Nylon Gears. Send him your specs and get a quote.
Specs needed.
1) Face width
2) Outside dia.
3) Bore dia. (key size if applicable)
4) Pressure angle
5) Pitch
Mark i have a south bend and i run chainsaw bar oil on mine , it works quite well. It stickets to the gears better than any other oil.
I've been doing the same but honestly 600w gear oil is a little better
I heard the beast of Winkysville in the middle of the video. Rumor has it that it only comes out at night.
Dog barking???
@@WinkysWorkshop Half dog half unknown
@@andyZ3500s Perhaps my wife taking to the dog in her own sort of slang and Spanish
@@WinkysWorkshop I don't think so. You are trying to hide the Beast so the local peasants don't overrun your house looking for it.
Great video. I recently 3D printed the reversing gears for my SB 13 but haven't had the opportunity to install them yet. Also, instead of using screws to hold the gear cover in place I switched 1/4" studs. The gear cover on a 13 is rather heavy and I was always afraid of dropping it. Now I can hang it on the studs and then put the nuts on, much easier 🙂
Thanks, thats a great idea on the studs. I should do the same.
Aluminum chip block is a good idea. I used the same solution about 46 years ago on my 1936 era 10 inch. No RTV. I used gasket sealer to stick it, and magnets to hold the plate in place until dry..
Thanks, so far its doing a good job
Mark, I installed an aluminum block off plate on my 10L SB, but since it's a slightly newer underdrive version I placed it on the front side of the headstock. It really helps with the chip management.
Good idea on the nylon gears 👍👍
Cool! Great minds thin alike!
That was a quite a nice batch of quiet gears!
I think so... so far they work great!
Good improvement,Mark.Thank you.
Very welcome, Thanks for watching
Thanks for that, I have been tossing up whether or not to print some reversing gears for my 9*20 lathe to make it a bit quieter. I think I will go ahead now.
Have fun! These gear are nylon.
After some time running in, they will become quiter. Simple and effective.
I think they are very quiet, the remaining noise is the sliding gear I think. Still mush better.
Suffering from a noisy gear train in my Jet lathe, I also got a pair of nylon tumbler gears from Printer doctor, after watching your earlier video. I measured the noise level before and after with my old Radio Shack sound level meter. I was surpised that there was no measurable reduction, maybe even a dB louder at some speeds. However, subjectively it seems queter. I suspect there's less high frequency component to the noise, and it's substantially less irritating than with the steel gears. And I can hear the radio over the noise now. It was worth the modest cost of the gears.
Yeah... I think mine is similar. I didn't think about the dB meter (and I have one). It seems to me that the sound that remains is higher frequency. Do you also build speakers? I just finished these. photos.app.goo.gl/tqdDTk5Epzrj4daM7
@@WinkysWorkshop If you do any Instrgram, my friend Mark is an acoustics engineer. @kravchenko_audio
Been very happy with the ones I have, a metric transposing and one other I needed to cut metric threads. From the back and forth I had with him, I think I was the first one to ask him for a Logan gear. I don't keep them in the lathe, so don't have any experience with metal sticking to them. Something to watch for. Thanks for the heads up.
He was easy to work with. I think the gears are going to work well.
I use CRC Open Gear and Chain Lube and it really quiets down things a lot. You'd be surprised. You don't wan't to get in on you though. I spray it on a piece of cardboard and use an acid brush to paint the gears. And it doesn't fling off like oil. Still don't wan't chips getting into the gears, no matter what is used. Good luck, G.
I used some on my logan 200. Man that stuff was nasty but it did make them quiet.
@@WinkysWorkshop LOL!! Nasty is a word I used before I posted, but I took it out. It does work well, but have not found a product that will take it off the skin. You have to wear it off over time. But like you said, it does make them quiet. Take care Mark, G.
Hey Mark, sounds better. I found that adding some white silicone grease really helps with noise, but by far the banjo tension is the main culprit. Recently I adjusted my banjo and the noise completely disappeared. I thought Id messed something up but didn’t. Anyway, keep up the great work. I like it. Gilles
I wish it was the banjo but I've moved it many times. I think it's mostly the sliding gear and the gear that meshes with the reverse gears. I'll probably get some more nylon gears. I tried grease and it works well for a while and then the grease gets displaced and sits on the side of the gears. Oil does the same but slower. I need to get a low volume pump with a constant feed.
There has been a fellow selling the reversing gears with roller bearings for years, quiets them right down. Could always stuff a wad of tinfoil under the headstock to keep the chips out.
I've seen those roller bearing reverse gears. I wrote the company and asked then how much to make a set for my SB11 and they never replied. I know they are very expensive.
Hey! I see my sticker hiding up there on your wall! I was surprised they weren't a bit quieter too!
Yep... I need to be more active with the stickers. The other day I accidently sucked Billy up in the vacuum.
LOL.. poor Billy
@@PeteRondeau Don't tell him. :o)
I would remove the metal gear cover, clean and apply something thick and sticky. There is likely room for this. As on my lathe that cover amplifies the noise. It's like a drum skin. Could be another good video and we would all learn what is best to use. Good video.
Interesting idea. My cover make the lathe more quite. It's almost 1/4" thick cast iron. Still, a sound deadening layer might help.
@@WinkysWorkshop
you can use sound deadening material used in vehicles for audio or just general noise reduction.... there are many available online...
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Putting some insulation inside the gear housing may help muffle the noise if there’s room for it.
Yeah, it's a super close fit... no room. I'm okay with the current noise level but I also have a plan to make it even "more better". ha
Simple find the noisy gear trick. Add heavy grease to the teeth as it's running. Just enough to damper the lash.
It's several gears.
6:00 Sometimes when parts fit like this or are a bit snug, they may not need reaming as much as they need finishing. A little deburring and you're off to the races
I agree, this one was perfect. The last gear I bought was more than a burr however.
Now you know why compressed air is not your lathe's friend. An air hose is just the thing to blow chips and tiny metal fragments into gears on the headstock, quick change gearbox, and gears on the backside of the carriage apron.
I always vacuum before blowing down my lathe or mill but I'll continue to use air although a bit more carefully. It's almost impossible to clear some areas without it.
I have a number of these machines and through the years i have come to know that the gear backlash clearances are critical to silent running or quitter running. Too much clearance gives a rattle and too little clearance gives the type of noise you are hearing. Use a strip of standard office paper as a feeler gauge to set the clearance between each gear, it takes a bit of practice getting the correct feel as you run the paper through the gears. If the bushings the gears run on are worn excessively it becomes very hit and miss. If you have eliminated chips and dirt getting into the gear train a PARATAC oil (sticky) chain lube will also help but attracts dirt and other contaminants (not good to lubricate the bushings with) hope this helps? Malcolm Finch South Africa
Out of all the gears there is only one that has adjustable backlash. The rest are in fixed positions. I think the spindle gear it a little messed up. I have a replacement i need to bore. The bearing are a little worn but really not too bad.
Aside from one gear pair there is no backlash adjustment. But you are correct.
On my 10" South Bend, the noise is coming from the shaft bushing of the stud gear (where you replaced the larger gear). The shaft bushing is worn oversize about .015".
Mine is actually fairly tight... the remaining noise seems to be coming from the sliding gear.
Hello Winky, at least you fixed one problem that cover plate to stop swarf getting into the gears teeth, hope you find a solution to the noisy gears, I have the same problem too. Cheers 😷👍👍👍👍🤏
I think if I replace one more gear there will be no metal on metal aside from the gearbox
Very interesting, I think I'll do the chip guard on my 13" SB. I made my two reversing gears out of cast iron and they are much quieter. I'd like to ask you are both gears the same diameter? Mine are different diameters. I can't figure out why. Being different they cause the carriage to travel at different rates forward or backwards. What if I wanted to cut an internal 13TPI & had to do it on the backside? It wouldn't be correct would it? And yet if I made the gears the same diameter the detents wouldn't line up in the handle. You got any input on this?
Cast iron is great but I have not had great luck making gears. I need to try again. Yes the two gears are different and that confused me for awhile. They are intermediate gears so the tooth count doesn't matter as long as it fits. The only gears that matter are the two outside gears. The one in the middle could be 1000 tooth. Think of it this way. If you took out the middle gear and laid a rack gear across the top of the two gears. What would the ratio be. A flat rack is theoretically a infinitely large gear.
On my myford the chips migrate down the lathe bore. I just keep a rolled up piece of paper towel in the end of the spindle. Remember to push it out towards the chuck or you have to clean chips off your gears. Ask me how I know..
This might be true in some cases but my spindle sticks out over an inch past the gear guard.
How about a foam sponge with a string so you can extract it from the chuck end of the headstock? Also, try chainsaw bar oil or grease on those noisy gears.
The end of my spindle bore is 1 inch past the gear cover so no chipc coming from the bore. Thanks
Hey Winky! Ever think about putting a brake on the spindle? Bringing the chuck to a quicker stop would come in handy.. Not sure how to implement though...
Yes I have... but with a screw on chuck I'm afraid I might spin the chuck off.
@@WinkysWorkshop what about braking at the chuck?
@@SquareRootOfNegativeOne Doable... but not in reverse!
if you replaced the in/out gear then there would be no steel on steel gears meshing....except in the QC box. that might make it even quieter.
Good observation and I agree. If I'm able to keep these gears clean I may also replace them.
Hi, maybe you should also seal off the front of that under-headstock cavity?
You might be right!
Since you have stopped ingress of shavings, I'd leave the metal gears, give them all a good clean with brakeleen or similar and then dust the cogs with molybdenum disulphide, not moly grease - just straight molybdenum disulphide powder.
Thats kind of like a nasty graphite right? That might work
@@WinkysWorkshop MoS2 has a low friction coefficient and high load-bearing capacity and It works well in on surfaces that are exposed to extreme wear and tear. For your application, graphite would need constant maintenance, MoS2 won't - once it has become integrated with the faces of the gears it is there forever. Because they are dry lubricants, any swarf, dust, grit won't stick on the gear faces as it will on greased gears. The nylon gears additionally will allow swarf to embed in the gear faces. So if you choose to use MoS2, make sure the gears are spotless with no oil or grease residue. Drizzle the MoS2 on as the gears are turning without load initially.
@@BenMitro I was aware of it's use in lubricant but not in dry form. I'm sure it lubricates well but I'm wondering if a sufficient thickness would be maintained on the gear surfaces to actually quiet the gears. The gear noise is not really a lubrication issue, it's a less than perfect transition between the gear teeth. This is why thin oil has no effect on the gear noise and also why a very think oil makes a drastic change. The thicker oil fills in the gaps during an imperfect mesh between the gears. I'm also concerned about keeping oil off the gears. There are several oil lubricated locations that would eventually get to the gears but the spindle bearing produces the most. So if the gears need to remain free of oil the MoS2 is probably not ideal.
@@WinkysWorkshop OK, I see. Its pretty cheap (I got 100g from ebay for AU$20 (US$13) so you could try it, see if it makes a difference to the noise then revert to the heavy oil/grease if not. I would expect it to quieten it down substantially, but then again, I'm wrong half the time :)
@@BenMitro Its 18 for 1-oz here. The idea is interesting. I'm sure an oz goes a long ways.
I always thought the chips were falling out the other end of the spindle bore. This makes a lot more sense. So, it stays nice and clean now?
Well first the end of the spindle is about even with the outside of the cover. Without any modification it is possible that chips could find there way back into the cover but unlikely. However, I have a tube extension on my spindle (to hold the magnet for my speed indicator) that sticks out an inch past the guard. So this is not where the chips were coming from. So far no chips in the gear.
I just finished binge watching the Whimhurst Machine videos... Subed... Loved the series!! I am just guessing as I have not owned one of these lathes but that sounds more like excessive backlash. Are you sure the shafts that the reverse gears are mounted on are not eccentric? The offset holes in the ends remind me of a lathe I had at one time that did have eccentric shafts that had to be adjusted in sequence or it would make the same sounds. The gear closest to the headstock got adjusted first by spinning the shaft to take up the lash, and then the next and so on. Once the backlash was set they ran pretty quiet for straight-cut gears.
I really wish my lathe was made like that. Part of the issue is my microphone. I just bought a more directional mic and it fixed my gears (haha!) But seriously, the gears have no eccentric adjustments. I wish they did. I do agree that most the noise is in the reverse gear area. I was thinking about replacing the gear just below the reverse gears. I see nothing wrong with it but judging by the sound it probably has some slightly bent teeth.
@@WinkysWorkshop LOL... sorta like turning up the car stereo to get rid of engine noise? I wonder what it would take to make eccentric shafts for those gears? Are they indexed in some way? It is odd to see an offset hole in a shaft like that unless it was used as the center to turn an eccentric. That sound is straight-cut gears running against each other with way too much backlash.
@@Cyruscosmo Yeah... haha. Actually I think the old mic was amplifying the gear noise. I think the gears are just worn. The backlash is good.
The noise is prominent due to the straight gear teeth? Might have quieter running gear if you replace with helical geared teeth?
Send money :o)
I have a hercus very similar headstock and A lot chips travel through the chuck bore out the back and tumble around.your lathe is very loud compared to mine.hope you solve the problem
My spindle bore extends about 1.5" past the cover so no chips get in there. I'm okay with the noise now but 600w gear oil really makes them quiet for a short period of time. I was actually thinking about making a oil bath. I suspect it would sling out around the reverse lever.
It didn’t look like you cleaned up the other gears. I thought you wood have washed all crud off gears. Or I didn’t see that they were clean. They make sticky grease for gears also. Thanks for bringing me along
I used air on them and it cleaned all the chips off. The oil film is isn't bad thing. I've tried a lot of different lubs,. 600 W gear lube is the best I think but right now I have chainsaw bar oil on them.
Wouldn't some of the chips come thru the spindel or isn't it hollow.
Its hollow but the where the chips would come out is outside the guard.
I thought it was under the cover
How about a cabinet around that gear cover to contain the noise??? looks like there is alot of openings for the sound to escape and travel through the metal cover...
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Its a very heavy cover... thick.
Thanks
@@WinkysWorkshop
yeah but metal can transmit sound easily and not absorb the sound as good as other materials.... you know what works for you ...✌️
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@@garymallard4699 True although cast iron is fairly dead. I might try something.
The closer the teeth mesh, the less noisier they are... reduce the mess to the minimum.
To a point this is true. I think the only place that is adjustable on the SB is the banjo position. The mesh looks okay but if needed I could do a little milling and move the gears.... but I think its very close to the optimum backlash.
hay dude - you didn't oil the new barring liberally before you turned your lathe on!!!
What's a barring? Bearing maybe, there was oil on them.
Where is the link to the supplier ?.
In the description under the video. Send him an email.
Why don’t you replace all the gears ?
I might replace the sliding gear but I suspect wear with plastic on plastic might be an issue and plastic on metal will be just as quiet.
*Quiet
Yep... better for sure
This may be one of the funniest interactions ever.
Dammit
@@Impuritan1 I need to fire my proof watchers. 2100 views and 1 comment (well two now).
Thanks
Quieter is much better
Yep
I agree