How Do You Hold Pastors Accountable? | Why I Don't Go (Q&A Ep. 3)
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- čas přidán 30. 03. 2021
- We bring the panelists back for our "Why I Don't Go" Series for Q&A with Da'Truth and Flame. The third question on the table is "how do you hold pastors accountable?"
Part 1 (Listening):
Episode 1: • What Made You Leave th...
Episode 2: • Has Your Life Improved...
Episode 3: • Can the Church Answer ...
Episode 4: • Do You Still Consider ...
Episode 5: • Is Church a Safe Space...
Episode 6: • Is the Church Full of ...
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Credits:
Videographer: Lance Asper
Production: RevPro Media
Best way to hold pastors accountable... Read yo bible!!!!!!!!!
Real talk
No one actually reads their bibles , they want to appear religious but hold no reference or understanding
You are so right
Let's even rephrase that and challenge people to STUDY the bible. Because interpretation can be it's own issue.
Like your comment Amen, but what if you have a Pastor who knows more word than you and I'm talking about he may also have studied more than you so he knows the history and context of scripture, so when you do say a scripture to you he is quick to tell you that the scripture you gave him was not in context so he tried to make you feel like you can't correct him... it is so sad... but thank God for the word of the Lord! I like that comment you said Read yo bible.
I believe if a pastor is “burned out” they need to first be honest with themselves and then the flock and take a seat. You can’t hide burnout!
Sabbaticals are definitely important for Pastors
Facts
Great responses. The real problem is that many need to ask for help and not take on too much but to delegate. A lot of Church Leaders lack true friends that they can share their struggles and many don't trust others. Many don't seek professional counseling.
Pastors and congregations need to remember we are to serve God. God gives supernatural gifts in the church to overcome some issues in the church. We start looking to men for all of our help, we fail. Jesus is the corner stone of the church. Some where all the way we have lost sight of that. Let us continue to pray and encourage each other. We serve and worship God!
Exactly. Psychology, philosophy and sociology are good but not enough
Great conversation. However I was taken aback when the host stated that "if you don't pay people in this culture, they ain't helping you". I disagree. Perhaps you should have stated "some people". There are a multitude of church folks who count it an honor to serve their pastor and/or church without pay. There are students, retirees, housepersons, etc., who are available. There are some positions however that do require paid employees, but not all of them. The body of Christ must have a "servant" attitude. Again, thanks for a very informative panel discussion.
Its issues like these that is the reason I subscribed, yall still believe in God but talk about the issues in the church
There is something wrong with the structure of the church. It should not be mirroring a corporation.
Until I had an intimate talk with a family pastor I had no ideas what they go through. I continue to pray for the men and women of God who have been called, remembering that when called means more than what you truly see. 🥰
It's one thing to come in contribute and add value and another when you try and it's shut down bc it doesn't fit with the vision of the Pastor yet it's the consensus of what the members are saying would help or is needed. Too many Pastor's hold too tight to their vision thinking it can't expand unless it comes from them. If God brought people to the church to help with the vision then the Pastor needs to listen before objecting just because it's not what they thought of first.
I feel like churches although they should not operate like a business they would benefit from certain aspects of of business administration. For example they need an nonmember certified HR person to handle staffing and grievance issues, maybe legal counsel especially for larger churches, and a contracted Licensed Therapist when members may need counseling outside of spiritual counseling from the pastor. This could help alleviate alot of internal issues and provide parameters for more accountability.
I agree wholeheartedly!
I respect this suggestion/POV...
To touch upon what Lisa the founder says about the pressures of the pastor..this is the result of 20th century American Christianity of running a church...it's not about being a community place for a small group of families within the community anymore...back in the day it was the ONLY job of the pastor to bury, marry, feed, heal/pray over the sick, tend to the garden tht fed the village tht was on / near church grounds...now it's nothing like tht...it is a BUSINESS..and unless it stays small, the issues the panel are bringing up r inevitable
Let's start by holding ourselves accountable.
We are too worried about what the other person is doing or not doing.
Let's get the focus on God and ourselves first, then the Holy Spirit will lead on the next steps.
This was fantastic. To T.R.U.T.H's last point tho, we can take that mindset if we are coming into a new ministry and we are somewhat mature in our walk and expectations. If not, hopefully that person is childlike in learning so they can grow to that because coming in with a mindset of how can I serve vs what serves me and overcoming that for a new believer or a babe in christ is an obstacle
Lisa, thank you for adding real life context to that conversation. I believe it grounded the remaining comments and centered the conversation into a walk a mile in the shoes of the average pastor and think about how to help them hold it together as well as get it right.
Yup ...I wanna see the next episode 😩
I'm so grateful for this channel and this episode. I am going through this right now with my church and Pastor. There is no accountability and the congregation and board members are almost like his peasants/workers in many respects. Play keep us in prayer. I will most likely leave but I love the people so change would be amazing.
I like that we are all preist in different roles. ❤
This is soooo good.
Equality but different roles.
Yes!!! 🔥🔥🔥 We designed our church this way from inception. This was encouraging yo hear! We're still working on the paradigm shift as people come and go and Covid this past year. But I absolutely agree with the content of this video. From experience not just theory.
Love the conversation. 🌸
This was sooooo rich...so much gems were shared🙏🏾
I love the perspective and discussion
I tried to help my pastor with ministry stress by taking on bible study. The next Sunday after he preached and sweated out his suit he turned to me and said in my ear " Don't ever make me look bad in front of the people like you did Wednesday night." After that I haven't volunteered for anything nor will I again.
He sounds very arrogant. If your pastor does not meet biblical qualifications you should leave:
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 Timothy 5:17-21
Titus 1:6-16
The Bible is super clear about who qualifies.
I have really enjoyed these conversations. So helpful!
They need another part to that.
Great video
Da Truth is so right with saying Monarchy Church can definitely cause Church hurt I've seen it first hand
It's because The Most High already stated that he doesn't dwell in brick, and mortar buildings, nor with things built with hands. Church is an organism, not an organization. The Most High is not the author of confusion... Satan is. Ministry is going OUTSIDE those four walls... Hitting the hwys, and byways, and helping the widows, poor, fatherless, and orphans in these communities. Not being bunched in these large white bank 🏦 owned buildings like sardines listening to one person tell people what The Most High is saying. That's roman catholic tradition that is designed like a pyramid to oppress, and rob people while the so call leaders financially thrive. The simple answer is to come out from among them, study scriptures for yourselves, and bring that hard earned money home. Never let a preacher count your pockets, or tell you you're cursed if you don't tithe... Those charlatans are lieing spirits destroying many sisters spiritually, and financially, because they're the largest supporters of those demonic machines.
What is the blueprint given to us in Acts? That should have been the basis of this conversation. Yes to transparency. A lot of Christians should also hold themselves more accountable. That pastors have to pay people to do what members could do is not right. These are ways of giving. Build God's Kingdom is not a spectator sport.
Thank you for raising these issues, and I enjoyed your discussion. Something I would like to contribute is that the church needs to be distinguished from the world. Furthermore, the church should be leading the way in influencing the world, and not the other way around. The worlds definition of a leader is so different from the leader that Jesus described. Jesus was conveying the message that the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. What that means is that one who leads must get behind the people they serve, pushing the least to the front. He also demonstrated that to lead you are to serve others, as opposed to being served by others. Jesus demonstrated this by washing the disciples' feet. The issue in many churches, are they are not Christian leaders, they are corporate leaders who are not equipped to handle the rigors of a church leader, thus the will burnout. Finally, most of us do not want leaders, we want people who will please us. Jesus was a great leader, yet the world rejected him.
The bible has a clear model. Maybe we should adhere to it? Paul sent Timothy to church plant but the interesting point was that this was based on spiritual maturity and character suitable to the roles. It also builds in accountability. God bless
Very true!
The overarching problem is the Church's adoption of a corporate leadership structure (e.g. senior pastor=CEO, assoc. pastors=VPs, elder board=board of directors). The NT model call us to a plurality of elders where there is shared leadership and a flourishing of gifts among the shepherds. For reference see "Biblical Eldership" by Alex Strauch and "The Plurality Principle" by Dave Harvey.
The Authority given to men is the gift of God to serve His people. Anyone who uses that to lord over the people has fallen from their position.
The church is not to be held uplike a business....Pastors are not CEO'S..of Ministry....God Is! The CEO...
🎯
The main issue is, in Americanized Christianity everything is put on the Pastor when there's 4 other offices that Christ appointed for the church to operate in the way He intends for it to.
I love your comment. This is a GREAT way for leaders to be held accountable. Sadly it seems that the "pastor" is above it all 🤦🏾♀️
Da T.R.U.T.H. sent me here!
If pastors can burn out are they called by God or appointed by man not saying its easy but if you answer the call of God to be a pastor you welcome the responsibility but in many cases the leaders do ignore people no all but a lot. I do agree they some leaders we should show some grace to
Exactly.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 Timothy 5:17-21
Titus 1:6-16
Do they even meet the biblical qualifications?
Pastors burn out trying to be spiritual Supermen.....Over preaching and or trying to please every member.....cracking under pressure
Of influence to seem God Like.....when
They are mere men...
...
🎯
This conversation sounds more like a college campus discussion then about souls need to be saved from hell and a pastor that leads Christians into that work.
The whole conversation didn't answer the question biblical 🤦🏾♀️ so sad. Like where's their Bible?
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 Timothy 5:17-21
Titus 1:6-16
Like American constitutional government, with checks and balances, instead of a "benevolent dictator" model. We see how focusing entirely on that benevolent dictator has led people astray. We also forget what Jethro told Moses: give responsibility to others who are trustworthy, and do not do it all yourself, period!
@James England, you are so right. The blueprint for the church is written in the bible. Also, Ministers don't want to share the tithes with other ministers. Ministers need to bless it's congregation by speaking and teaching the truth and stop manipulating the congregation to give tithes. If they Speak the truth the people will happily give from the heart which will lead to a healthyer congregation that is not so needy.
@@aprilwhite1794 amen!
While I agree with there being accountability, I also am aware that there needs to be degrees with that... there are certain things that can be given in account to amongst the congregation but there's also things that a pastor should have a pastor to be accountable to concerning... every pastor should have a pastor, any that are functioning without one should raise caution
How about sticking to what the Bible actually says about the matter:
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 Timothy 5:17-21
Titus 1:6-16
I just wished more believers would study the Bible. There's no mystery or misinterpretation when it comes to holding a pastor accountable biblically.
How do you reconcile equality and role distincitions?
The Bible usually does things in two's so with that being said some pastors dont listen and don't want to listen. The support staff ( custodian, secretary, others ) can tell the pastor and staff they are wrong but they get hit with the " God talked to Moses only " thing. So I let them folks just go on to their destruction.
Do local churches with a team government / leadership model really have less hurt people than those with a Monarchial government model? I've heard from many hurt people from each of these types, but it seems most churches have changed or pastors are in the process of trying to change their churches to a Monarchial model.
I do believe that a team model is best and my vantage point is based on the Council of Elders in Acts that responded to different issues and even sent people out for ministry work (Paul and Barnabas and Silas) as well as 1Timothy 3 and Titus speaking to the appointment of elders (plural who might also have titles like apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, bishop, missionary, or presbyter, etc.) who would oversee a local church and seek the LORD as to direction for that church and hold each other accountable according to the kind of character scripture says each elder must display. All of this representing the Great Shepherd Jesus Christ while taking into account the needs of the members and allowing them to speak into situations and solicit needed changes (without their comments and activism being looked at as evil, wicked, or gossip) as in Acts Chapter 6 when the people spoke out about the needs of the widows and inequality in food / monetary distributions, which led to the establishment of another portion of the government structure of the church - Deacons (men full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom that might one day become elders) who would attend to both ministry issues and physical and financial care for the church and its people under the guidance of the board of elders, the scripture, and the Great Shepherd.
We need to ask Elohim and go to his word to get understanding not men's opinion about Elohim house. The laws are in the book and Jesus and the Disciples show us how the church is ran and how to hold pastors and the people accountable. We don't need man or woman's opinion.
Thank you!
What about the pastors that are not working or that don’t have small children at home but still are burned out or not on fire for GOD or barring fruit but expect you to give ?
Churches were never intented to be run by one person read Phil 1:1 (plurality is model Elder(s) ).
The concept Da T.R.U.T.H is describing is very similar to the structure of the A.M.E church, or Methodism as a whole. Their is a "method" and order, structure. It's built up very much like the Democratic process.
The church is not a business. Moreover, the pastor is not a CEO. In fact, there are to be a plurality of elders. Paul makes this clear. Large congregations, with celebrity pastors is another example of how the church is being governed incorrectly.
Study to show thyself approved to God & pray for revelation he wants you to have according to your life. Everyone's revelation is not for the next person. You can't hold a pastor accountable that you really don't even know, barely even speak to when you in a congregation of thousands of ppl, folks really don't know their pastor they just feel they know his pulpit works. Now it's up to the pastors & hold themselves accountable , Perfect example is Gino Jennings he makes sure his congregation know every verse he speaks from plus allow segments for his congregation to ask questions. To many preachers telling the congregation not to question God, but the preacher ain't God so he needs to provide times for questioning so ease his folks inquisitive mind.
What do pastor's do is sell false hope
501c3.. Pastors are in to deep.
What you're suggesting that's how the true church is suppose to function...
But many deliberately do not want it functioning the correct way...
I frequently hear some say that,,I started a church,,like it's about them,,and some would go so far as to place their wife after them and if they have kids they follow right after the wife...very much like the Royal Family in Britain...
When JEHOVAH called Moses and placed him to lead HIS people a similar situation befall Moses...
When his wife father came to visit him he saw how Moses was stressed and what did he say to Moses...
The situation will kill...He then advice Moses to get the other men,those that were able body, to assist him..
Some of the trivial matters the guys beneath him could deal with them and the more serious matters,,those that JEHOVAH got to give direction on..
He Moses would deal with those...
And he took his father - in - law advice and it was much different when he did as his father - in - law had told him to do...
At the commencement of the church after the MESSIAH left the scene it was the Deciples and Paul...It was a together effort...
But will they let you add value? Thats the question.
Pray like never before, or...
No I think you should not make excuses for the ones that are predatory. The Bible says that wolves in sheep’s clothing exists and hirelings care nothing for sheep. Pastors need to be held accountable to the Word like everyone else
Is there a difference in a democratic model and a biblical model? Or... is democratic a biblical concept?
Acts 6
If you ain’t paying people they don’t help comment I really didn’t understand and in the context of this conversation were you saying pastors are not helping you if your not paying them?
Now the Spirit [a]expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed (A)to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons................
Pastors who change the word to please political agenda
I'm a new subscriber and I've enjoyed many of the videos so far. I did give this video a thumbs down, because I'm wondering where's the Bible scriptures to simply answer the question about holding a pastor accountable? I listed them below. Please read to understand:
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 Timothy 5:17-21
Titus 1:6-16
This is something I've struggled with in church. Once you become a Bible believer and reader from front to back you can't ignore certain things. A big one for me is the qualifications of a pastor/overseer. The issue that we have in many churches is that there are wannabe pastors that do not meet the qualifications biblically. If more churches held firm to the qualifications we wouldn't have so much dysfunction in the church. If Christians would study their Bible more they would have more clarity about these types of questions. If a wannabe pastor does not meet the qualifications they are to step down. In all honesty they should have never stepped up. Of course many of them are very prideful which is one reason why they are not a real pastor. If they won't step down you have to rebuke them publicly and hopefully that will get people to wake up and walk out. There are no Bible scriptures to back up these wannabe pastors that after they do not meet the qualifications they can be restored to their position. They are to be qualified before starting the position. Of course it does not mean that the pastor is perfect. The Bible is very clear about that. We have all sinned in fallen short of the glory of God. That verse doesn't change the biblical qualifications.
Of course some of these arrogant wannabe pastors will just start another church and abuse people. The more people that will read their Bible and encourage others to do the same, the safer we will be from these narcissist pastors.
Please pray for God to continue to strengthen the pastors who do qualify. There are many of them out there and the church and community are being blessed by them. Also pray for God to remove those who do not. They have hurt way to many people.
Let's stand for what the word of God says and not our opinions and feelings.
Isn't that what a church board of trustees do ?
He just explained the Presbyterian form of church government. [5:40...]
That's one of the reasons I gave this video a thumbs down. Where's the biblical point of view?
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 Timothy 5:17-21
Titus 1:6-16
If the call to deacons etc..are to be of 1 wife...what does that mean?... u can only have 1 wife......The word answers every questions...seek the treasure of the new testament with an understanding of why the old testament is likened to a mirror..
What happened to the fourth person-Shay, I think?
Maybe I’m wrong, I didn’t feel like she was going to come back because I feel like she felt like she didn’t did not want to hear the answers. You know there were something about her disposition that she basically feels that her self thoughts is the is the best way for her. She kind of put me in a theory of I am a God I am in charge of my destiny type of feeling
First what I believe is that people have to understand that the bible is all alleged. Once people understand that, they can better get a hold of who to follow. In this episode they are still trying to use an alleged Bible scriptures to force people into their beliefs.
You don't have to God will do
We should start with acknowledging that pastors are men, not as gods. They aren’t perfect people with a different Holy Spirit than any other believer. They need prayers, counsel, correction and encouragement just as everyone else does. Also understanding that God never intended for the body to be governed by one person. Christ gave gifts so that many can do the work. It’s not about one person or couple.
Good morning family!
So family....Church is NOT supposed to be a business other than the business of salvation and speaking truth to power.
Pastors need to be accountable. We can help them strive to speak truth to power. Call them out on their fables and misunderstanding. We have to do better at shepherding Gods ppl.
As a former Pastor myself I enjoyed the conversation but...
But what???
The Bible says that a man is to be a husband to one wife. Yes that is in the new Testament. It also instructs us to honor the laws of the land. You have to understand that culture in the Old Testament was much different. Women had no rights were treated as property and yes men had multiple wives. that is not the culture of today and it was never God's heart!
So someone please let the young brother know unfortunately he can not have multiple wives!
The different donominations have been within the body for many years even in the days of Jesus being on earth. There was the Pharisees who believed one thing, the Sadducees who believed in another, and then Jesus began to establish His church. So I do not think that it is a universal church today where the body of Christ is following thw true principles of Christ because people are following man's tradition.
Jesus told His disciples in Luke 22 not to be as the Gentile leaders who excercises authority, so the church has the hierachy system of the Gentiles and God is not promoting falsehood, which is why you see the leaders failing.
I’m sorry but that entire first statement is not true.
How so?
@@erinsmith2459 I say that because I’ve been an administrator for a Bishop in a very large congregation for over 10 years. His executive administrator. I’ve also held positions in smaller churches. I’ve been in the inner circle most of my life to speak with pastors and their administrators. The mega churches don’t always pay their volunteers. They use them and they burn out. Some of the small have more help because they are more of a community church. I’ve seen it in every way depending on the church. I also feel like we can’t discuss the burnout without discussing the call. Where you called? Are most of these churches called to stand alone? Or should they stand alone and those members support it like they would a mega church (sometimes). I’ve just seen so much that I no longer loosely say the mega church versus the smaller churches. Everything said about the mega church can be said about the smaller church and vice versa. I’ve seen so much. Too much! I’m rambling lol.
Leave
This is not good. These ideas are not biblical. Pastors are the leaders of the congregation, period. The Bible gives authority to the Bishop, elder, pastor. The problem is there are “pastors” who should not be. We don’t need to reinvent or innovate anything. The Bible has already spoken, which means God has already spoken.
I don't believe in a one man show. A church should be like an institution with group leadership, not ran by person who everybody refers to as "daddy". In that case, it's easier to hold the group leadership accountable.
All y'all are TOTALLY WRONG..BUT YOU THINK YOU KNOW..
SO LET UR GROUP START UR OWN CHURCH AND SEE HOW IT GOES..
WAT Y'ALL GOT GOING
GOD IS NOT IN IT AND IT'S PURE CARNAL..
IF ANY OF YOU HAD THE HOLY GHOST THIS LITTLE GROUP WOULD NOT EXIST..
Well the bible lists FIVE FOLD ministry gifts, pastors were never supposed to govern alone. They have a function and an AREA to lead. Apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, pastors etc., should govern a house TOGETHER.
That works if the church has people with those callings. Sometimes they are not there logistically.
As a former Pastor myself I enjoyed the conversation but...
But the church is looking and operating like the world. Forgetting who and why we exist gets the church and pastors in a bind.