New Semi Rotary Engine with 2 Connecting Rods 🤯 Avadi MA-250
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
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In this video we analyze the new engine from the Avadi company that uses 2 connecting rods and rotates. Basically, this system integrates a reduction in rpm and increases torque, creating an engine worthy of analysis.
What is your opinion?
#engine #avadi #connecting rod #power #horse #turbo #repairman22 #animation - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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4:51 This is insanely efficient
I love to run the numbers on any motor that I ever see
Your average hot rod motor moves 1.35 CFM to make one horsepower
The closer you get to a formula 1. It's more like a 1.00 to make a horsepower
This thing 0.96 CFM to make a horsepower
So this thing is officially making more power per cubic inch than formula 1
5:00 yeah see this motor is 1.65 CFM for a horsepower. It shows how much more efficient the first one is
Don't download it, my wallet and my sanity are gone. This game will ruin your life and will to play any game for more than 5 minutes at a time.
@@Bozemanjustin So uh.... life of that wrist pins gonna be what 20-30 hours? This is a joke, it will have NO reliability. Rotating the piston rings is also a nightmare. Hey, on the bright side, if it weighed more it could be a boat anchor.
Huge thumbs up to them building a working prototype and making a video of the engine running! That already sets them apart from 99% of the other "innovative" engine designs.
my thoughts exactly. even if it turns out to be worse than the competition, atleast they learned a few things while building it.
No, it’s a 4 stoke , one rotation engine. A rotation and a stroke is not the same thing, has never been the same thing, and will never ever be the same thing 🤦♂️
Yup, sleeve valved 4 stroke 👍
no compression cycle no 3rd cycle between the exhaust stroke, it only goes up and down once per firing sequence the next is exhaust.
less losses to friction is quite possible, only things rubbing are the rings and bearings.
tho ceramic is built to fail? and would grind into the metal?
@@pazsion The engine has an exhaust stroke, an intake stroke, a compression stroke and an ignition stroke. 4 separate stokers, i.e. a 4 stroke engine. Sorry you have trouble counting and comprehension issues son. 🤣😂
Certainly not single stroke! ...This channel gave bad information ☝
1 full rotation of the crankshaft per stroke. U don't get the same with conventional engines
The side pins that are connected to the gears are submited to great forces, by being supported on only one side, the bushing/ bearing will fail fast.
As opposed to conrods? It's a non-issue.
@@michaelbuckers Conrods are supported equaly by the crankshaft. It is an issue.
You would be correct, but if you look at the 3D model provided by the company you see an additional support bracket at the other side of the gear.
I think the age old problem with all engines with sliding type valves will be sealing the ports properly when they're closed.
yep. sliding valves never work when exposed to extreme pressure and extremely hot exhaust byproducts...
but what i keep seeing with all engines is the terrible mechanical advantage they all have on expansion versus compression. really good at compressing... really crap at expanding.
@@paradiselost9946 You won't see different without a vastly more complex compound crank linkage. See examples like the Atkinson engine.
@@wagnerrp You don't need that linkage for the advantage, see Miller cycle. Toyota also calls it Atkinson cycle, but it's actually closer to Miller cycle. Basically, compression stroke is retarded by keeping intake open part of the way piston goes up after intake stroke. This pushes some air out through intake. Some economical modern engines with variable valve timing are fully capable of switching between Otto and Miller cycles depending on power needs. Otto utilizes more volume and time for compression stroke for maximal power output, but Miller/Atkinson cycle is more efficient. Real downside is complexity.
@@jarivuorinen3878 Toyota has an Otto cycle engine that simulates the Atkinson cycle. Miller is just Atkinson with a supercharger. Toyota’s modified Otto cycle does not address the claimed issue. During compression, peak pressure occurs at the top of the sine wave, and you get maximum mechanical advantage to keep compressing that charge. During combustion, you still start at the top of that sine wave, and expansion experiences maximum resistance. You cannot change that without either a compound linkage, or eliminating the crank and doing something even more radical.
@@wagnerrp You can get very good mechanical advantage on expansion by simply offsetting the crankshaft a little.
Lets crank the friction WAAAY UP for...some reason.
Now lets spin the block, woah ! now lets spin the car ! Let's spin everything in the engine and drivetrain except the wheels !!!
i would not be surprised if it has very high thermal efficiency. basically piston goes directly up and down. sure it rotates but even going directly up and down so way less friction like traditional engine. plus no puppet valves. no energy loss for those springs
@doesnotcompute6078no valvetrain. As mentioned, poppet valves are the main limitations of modern engines, as well as force imbalances on pistons due to cam offset.
doesnotcompute6078 Where did you find information about the friction forces of the engine?
@doesnotcompute6078 Where did you find the data about the friction? Or are you making it up to win an argument on the internet?
Any time someone says an engine part is subject to "no wear" they are immidiately wrong. It might not wear "much" but it will in fact wear down
There is a lot of rotating mass per cylinder compared to a traditional engine, with additional losses through the gears. In addition the head design seems limiting.
It is good to see innovation but it is unlikely this engine will be more efficient than a conventional piston engine.
It's relaxing to watch these videos.
However, with more moving parts, it may be more unreliable than a conventional engine
Edit: the compression stage will force a load onto the piston, which will be transfered to the connecting rods. The resulting opposing forces are not completely canceled out, as they are a perpendicular distance apart. This forms a rocking couple which tries to rotate the piston from the top and twist the connecting rods, putting a lot of physical torsion on them.
actually it has no cylinder head or valves or camshaft and they can most definitely make it so it can be a one crankshaft engine instead of two. but it will vibrate more and that might make it less reliable...
the cranks don't need to rotate. that big ring gear with some ball bearings could rotate just fine. spinning the piston in the cylinder like that will cause more wear
Theres less moving parts but more rotating mass and oiling may be an issue. The ceramic sealing surfaces lasting though, maybe.
Also where the f did they pull that a 250 honda would have 16hp? 150cc japanese engines do more than 16.
There are a bunch of flying bomb uses where short term reliability is just fine and it would just need to work for 10 hourds though.
@@manitoba-op4jxThe piston and cylinder rotate together.
So at half way in the video you make it seem like the engine is way better than a traditional engine in terms of performance but later down the line you say that the engine is actually at a 2:1 gear ratio by default so its actually the same. Honestly I don't expect these engines to make it to the market because the seals are probably not going to be able to withstand the harsh conditions as well as poppet valves can
You can easily replace the ports with poppets. Just make the top of the cylinder a cam to drive the valves. You cannot get rid of the outer ring that seals the cylinder to the head. As mentioned in the video, they're actually going a different route, and moving the ports to the side like a traditional two-stroke, where the ports are now protected during combustion. Again, you still can't get rid of the outer ring, but that will be much easier to maintain than ones that are sliding across an open port.
First thing I notice when I look at it are the straight-cut bevel gears. How much do I believe in its longevity and reliability, and why "not at all" is the correct answer?
Its just a proof of concept, small issues like these arise and find a solution.
Even if they were refined helical cut hypoid gears, they are still subject to heavy shock loads as there is no flywheel. Thus the gear are like how they are... Its a clever design, but not a good design...
@@LunringNassar I've seen the exact same concept about 12 or 15 years ago and it doesn't changed a bit. All the same problems with unnecessary piston rings rotational motion added, unnecessary gears, cantilevered crankshafts and difficulties with making the engine bigger than a single cylinder one (it's possible yet difficult and expensive).
In conclusion this engine doesn't make much sense because of added mechanical complexity and cost with almost non-existent benefits (only real one is it's balance but it could be achieved without all that gears and complexity).
Straight cut gears are tougher and have less friction than helical gears. What's your point?
Actually the piston does indeed rotate. Just because the cylinder rotates with it does not mean it is no longer rotating it is just that the cylinder rotates with the piston. I don't see how this extra rotational force could defeat the standard piston engine of the same caliber. Sometimes less is more.
The piston does not rotate within its cylinder, is the point he is making.
Yes I covered that in my comment.
And instead the entire cylinder rotates inside another cylinder, meaning that the cylinder is now experiencing friction and wear on both it's inner surface with the piston, and it's outer surface with the other cylinder? @@TitoRigatoni
@@ericankney5957 Yeah I thought the same thing. Now, you COULD support the rotating cylinder within the stationary frame by placing it on bearings (which would significantly reduce friction and isn't possible if it were the piston rotating within the cylinder) but that's not possible if you want the cylinder head to act as intake/exhaust ports -- it has to slide beneath the port, causing friction, wear, loss of oil, etc.
looks like a diving arm bread mixer
Interesting! We tend to see a lot of new engine design ideas and most of them kind of peter out. I hope this one does better. There are myriad uses for a small, light engine. Generators, personal watercraft, scooters, Jaws of Life, emergency water pumps for flooded areas, leaf blowers, air compressors and other shop equipment.
This would be perfect for a lawnmower because of how it can be positioned and how it can have a lot of output torque in addition to being able to have 4 stroke rotation with 2 stroke speed makes it more fuel efficient 😅
This engine can easily be turned into a 2-cylinder opposite one by combining 2 1-cylinder engines
They'd have to figure out something fancy with the output shaft, you wouldn't be able to have it in-line with the housing rotation if there is another cylinder beneath it
It is interesting but another concern I would have is that the centrifugal force generated by a spinning cylinder may tend to cause liquid fuel to cling to the cylinder wall. Not as much of an issue with NG or H2 but it would be better if the same type of force could be used to do the opposite and tend to force liquid fuel away from the cylinder/combustion chamber walls.
"I was concerned there would be a lot of rotary friction between the piston and cylinder, but it turns out the cylinder and piston rotate together."
Okay, and the cylinder is rotating within its housing, including the whole cylinder head which must slide beneath the intake/exhaust ports. All you've done is move the problem to a different component.
a new design with a working model and the cons laid out clearly alongside the pros - definitely a nice change of pace
There's a lot of weight spinning there which translates to lots of inertia. Tuned trucks for car shows often tend tilt to the direction of their axle shaft spin since they're much heavier and faster spinning than regular, stock ones. There's a chance similar issues will happen in vehicles powered by this engine, especially aerial ones.
Inertia is only a factor when accelerating. If you're at a steady RPM with a variable propeller, the only torque comes from the propeller itself. If you have a fixed propeller, then the overwhelming majority of torque still comes from the propeller. In either case, it's something the aircraft is already going to be designed to handle.
Lot of friction losses. A stroke isn't a rotation btw.
Good concept, but I bet, IRL it's way more complicated. And I don't believe it's ever be more powerful than conventional 2-stroke with that volume or that mass.
The Germans are always worried about "Umlauf unruhe", or orbit discordance. This are the much higher loads, or moments of the piston given over a certain degree of the crank revolution.
Normally the flywheel takes these punches and equalised it to a certain, acceptable degree. The thick cranckshaft transfers the loads. It is thick, heavy.
In this engine certain toothgroups of the cogwheels are extremely high loaded and others are a barely loaded. Now these tiny tooth must transfer that explosive loads, and they are much smaller, hence very high loaded.
It could work for short period, like a drone.
This is the first video of yours I've came across, but I'm impressed and now subscribed 👍 Really fascinating engine concept...
Thanks
The primary efficiency limiter in a piston engine is the crankshaft, which allows zero torque to be produced at the top of the stroke, where the ignition pressure is highest and hence the greatest potential energy exists. Maximum torque is only realized at mid-stroke, where the pressure is greatly reduced. Using two crankshafts does not change this formula, but does bring the added burden of eccentrically loaded bearings and hence early bearing wear, plus all of the added friction of incorporating a differential into the engine. While this design is novel, it does not bring any tangible benefits.
I always love to see different solutions for an problem (in this case creating torque out of fuel).🤩
Some pretty mind blowing concept, complex but rather simple at the same time.
I wonder if a diesel version would be possible? 🤔
They can’t even get high compression on gasoline I’m afraid.
The biggest issue I see are crank bearings living a short life. The downward force on only one side of the crank will cause the bearings to be stressed, being caught in the fulcrum point of basically a lever. The piston will be pressing "downward" on one end and the gear pressing "upward" on the other. Similar to rowing a boat with the bearing in the pivot point for the ore. Perhaps a ballbearing design may relieve some of that direct pressure.
No mention of the extreme friction and sealing between cylinders, or the rumble of the the whole thing rotaring on gears....Nah
That's what im saying. How do they seal the thing, it most loose so much compression or be so tight that it locks up when to hot.
If they did more like a 2 stroke, it would make more sense where the piston actually seals the holes on the side of the cylinder wall
Now put the piston inside the shaft with rotating valves in the shaft walls.
It appears to have somewhat of a rotary valve, meaning that sealing won’t do well in the long run.
Why not make it a 2 stroke and keep the piston stationary while having the ring gear rotate? Seems that would work better
How does the oil get to the rod and main bearings?
Heck with this new engine... I want that GAME you're pushing Yeah baby! Thanks so much. You RoCk
I can see how the timing could be controlled by an ECM. I wonder if side port configuration could be modified to turn the engine into a 2 stroke?
I can see the top ends of the rods producing a twisting force on the gudgeon pin 😮
I'd be interested in seeing a pre-combustion chamber in otto cycle which is possible with the side ports since you need a second injector. Then the supercharger that it needs when you do that on the output shaft
I must say nice clean design with exhaust & intake ports but when I heard 1HP for 1Lb weight then it seems we already have that engine being manufactured under PowerBee 894 brand, which exactly same weight (15Lb) and generates 16HP and is very simple 2-Stroke design with parts that lasts for 20 years or longer. This additional gears & double acting crankshaft will see a lot wear within 6-months or even earlier depending on where it is used. Besides moving Cylinders & Moving pistons- good luck with that.
The rings dont rotate, the inner combustion cylinder does, spark plug is affixed to outer stationery cylinder and protrudes into central axis port seal.
If the output shaft could be reconfigured to exist to the side an opposing piston might be doable. If so the displacement would be doubled, 100% more, with less than a 50% weight and size gain.
Interesting design, wish them all the success with it. Would love that cutaway model for my desk :)
This piston engine's now connected to the rear differential - No transmission, no driveshaft, no pinion gear - Just piston direct power -|- Wonderful 😊
When will these be available at Harbor Freight as a Predator engine ?😃👍🏻🙏🏻
Picture this thing on the power stroke with tons of cylinder pressure from super - or turbo- charging. One rod generating side thrust. The other rod is generating side thrust in the opposite direction. The rods cannot both be on the center line. So the opposing side thrusts result in a torque or moment on the piston itself. The only things stopping it from rotating in the bore are the small ends of the connecting rods being on a common wrist pin.l
It is a suicide-drone engine and that is about all.
Yeah let's add more moving parts create more friction and wear!
It sounds more like a diesel engine rather than gas.
It's got the rattle I always associate with a running diesel
The only concern is sealing of the rotary valves. This is an emissions issue for hybrid cars. There is a reason rotary valves have been tried again and again and not used.
E.g., British WW2 aircraft engine development bet heavy on rotary valves. RR gave up early and why they were the sole initial contender.
For drones, a good concept.
This seams to also be very very well balanced. So max rpm could probably be higher to.
Very cool design, but the rotating valve setup will be the Achilles heel. There's good reason why we've veen using poppet valves for over a century now.
Considering how massive and wide the spinning mass is, I want to know it's top rpm. Reasonably it could still be a high revving engine.
Big sliding cylinders do need a lot of precision and oil.
How did they get the rotating valve assembly to seal properly?
It seems to be pretty much the same as the ceramic apex seals in a rotary, just sliding between pieces of metal. It seems like it'll be even more similar if/when they move the ports to the side instead of the top
with 2 con rods going in opposite directions, wondering if secondary balance may be near perfect also....... 🤔🤔🤔🤔
No, it wouldn't be as the conrods still go sideways and then straight up. It has the same balance problems as a conventional single cylinder engine, however i don't know if or how the gyroscopic effect would affect vibrations, like mentioned in the video.
Rotary disc valve thing. Won't seal properly. Why not make the piston rotate and have a conventional top?
To me it would seem to work better if them moving cylinder parts do not rotate and only the outer casing rotates... it's like making an electric brushless motor...
When under load the off center connecting rods angled in opposite directions will make the piston try to twist which will try to bind up the rod bearings creating extra friction. This and the compound gyroscopic forces from cranks rotating on rotating axes seem to me the biggest problems with this design.
Won't the connecting rods cause the rotation to slow down and speed up as they move further away from center? Won't that extra spin cause a lot of stress on the connecting rods?
Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. That's a 4 stroke in 720 degrees of crank rotation. It doesn't matter that the piston and cylinder only make one horizontal revolution, the crank is going around vertically 2 complete times, 720 degrees, to complete each cycle. I would think that what limits rotary valves would also limit this engine, seals and lubrication for the ports. Still, a novel and interesting design.
Has anyone ever seen that spining anti gravity device from the 70s? This looks a lot like that.
In 1974 my Honda XL 250 had 23 hp.
How does the rotational motion get to the output shaft?
The whole rotating assembly is the output shaft.
I'm not anywhere near an expert in this field, but this looks to have several issues imo.
For one, you're trading a sequenced line of firing pistons with offset and distributed weight for, in this case, a piston and combined crankshaft arms all firing at once (yes, they are weighted, but that really only reduces the existing problem of vibration), which means youre occilating say, a plane prop back and forth as you're spinning it, which kind of makes me think this would vibrate a directly connected prop to pieces after a little while.
Another thing is that saying the piston doesn't rotate is innacurate, it does rotate, and so does its casing, and in my uneducated brain, I imagine that rotational energy would make the piston constantly be fiighting the centrifugal urge to rub up against the casing as its firing, which would wear it down really fast. That's to say nothing about those seals around the spinning casing wearing down, and the fact that the seals around both the injection and exhaust ports are ceramic.
Like I said, I'm not an expert, so Im just talking out my ass, but hey, Im glad to be proven wrong. I'm into the idea of new and strange advanments in tech and mechanics.
This is similar to the rcv sp 60 engine for rc airplanes that was produced 20-30 years ago
It is definitely a 4 stroke engine. Even the CEO of Avadi calls it a 4 stoke engine.
Cool thanks 👍
I'd like to know how much efficency is lost with a conventional single cylinder four stroke engine as apposed to this engine. Yes, camshafts and valves suck away a bit of energy, but at least they aren't going to sheer the gear teeth off like this might.
so the spark plug is spinning in its boot?
Obvious problem - friction in "valves" as well as tight seal. Impossible to maintain for long. Poppet valve is a winner for a reason. Second issue is a bearings on both crankshafts. Room is limited and piston together with crown gear trying to bend that bearing in exactly the same direction. It wont last for long
Scalability. Conventional ICE is pretty easy to scale - add more cylinders. What about this one?
What keeps both connecting rods in time? The gear it's driving?
yes, and in a scissor, what keeps the blades in time? in this case the piston pin.
@@repairman22 ok. Cause yeah, there really no other position the crank ends could be, besides the correct one, or in line with each other, in which case it wouldn't even work, let alone, fumble itself into such a position.
Sorry, still trying to wrap my head around it! Never seen an engine like this! It's ingenious.
I've seen the exact same concept about 12 or 15 years ago and it doesn't changed a bit. All the same problems with unnecessary piston rings rotational motion added, unnecessary gears, cantilevered crankshafts and difficulties with making the engine bigger than a single cylinder one (it's possible yet difficult and expensive).
In conclusion this engine doesn't make much sense because of added mechanical complexity and cost with almost non-existent benefits (only real one is it's balance but it could be achieved without all that gears and complexity).
There's no fundamental reason why the crankshaft needs to be cantilevered. They could put an additional support in the center. The value of this is that the output shaft is naturally in line with the cylinder, so while it may be taller, it is slimmer.
@@wagnerrp there is fundamental reason for cantilevered crankshaft: you simply can't place a journal bearing between two conrods in this engine because of little available space between conrods in given piston size. And that's not the least problem with this engine.
@@teolynx3805 That's not a fundamental reason. That's a design choice. Adding more separation means introducing more torque on all those bearings, and there are good reasons for not doing so, but those are all choices.
There is no piston rings rotational motion. He spent a pretty big part of the video explaining this.
Waiting for D4A's video on this now
This is a great idea!
It still has a reciprocating piston but with this engine it has double the reciprocating mass & double the moving part's, & its only a drawing.
It isn't double the reciprocating mass, it's roughly the same reciprocating mass cut into two pieces, & it's not only a drawing; they literally showed running prototype engines in the video. It is double the moving parts though, and those valve ports are never gonna seal right.
1 min 17 seconds in. The point is that this thing has perfect balance, right?
Looks like it will be this versus liquid piston
Neat. I'm looking forward to seeing this in motorcycles.
96HP from 1500cc engine? That is not impressive. The only advantage I see is it’s weight and size, which has its place in certain applications.
Now make a twin cylinder.
i think its a scaled up rc airplane engine thats. been around for a long time
Piston speed will be a problem at high RPM, on the flip side I know of a engine design that has been running for over a decade on petrol & hydrogen, it is of comparable size to this design, it is over 600cc, fires 4 times revolution, has the equal to 175mm stroke of a piston engine & has only 5 moving parts.
1 stroke? Ridiculous. Its still a 4 stroke, but has a gearing before the output shaft.
Just because you can dosent mean you should ..
Brilliant design, & I do hope the Avadi company succeed with it!
If they're able to force air around the rotating cylinder to cool it, then maybe it could be possible to also incorporate a forced-induction system along the same lines?
How is it "virtually" a one stroke engine? It still makes 4 strokes. It just does it in one crank instead of two. By your logic my car is "virtually" a two stroke engine...
I imagine manufacturing costs will be high.
It sounds like and old Singer sewing machine!
Good luck to them in making this work but far simpler development is putting rotary valves on a conventional engine & the sealing problems around those valves have not been successfully resolved & 100 years ago they had sleeve valve engines (that even progressed into some high performance WW2 engines) but further development on them wasn't seen as worthwhile so whilst hopefull that they can succeed here history is somewhat against them (unless they manage to solve what others have failed to do).
It reminds me the Duke engine ...😊
The oppertunity for range extending engines for EVs was two decades ago when there were only a few but squandered Electrified projects like the EV1
If they weren't subject to corporate sabotage, god knows how far have new combustion engine designs may have evolved by now.
Fiat in 2024 is only talking about a REx for the 500e despite Fiat hybrid, PHEV and EV concepts going back to the Cinquecento and Mk1 Panda.
Good for lawn mowers also?
That looks like a fucking disaster
Exactly 😂
why is no one talking about balance?
It would make more sense to make this engine diesel with a supercharger, it would be super efficient
Why didn’t they compare it to a race bike?
For how many hours can the piston and piston ring survive?
why should it last less than any other if there is no difference.
To clarify. The cylinder rotates at the same speed as the piston 👍
@@user-oo6lm1un6m Yeah that's a problem, it's another motion that will add wear AND the piston rings will slip out of place much easier.
So uh.... life of that wrist pins gonna be what 20-30 hours? This is a joke, it will have NO reliability. Rotating the piston rings is also a nightmare. Hey, on the bright side, if it weighed more it could be a boat anchor.
The piston rings are not rotating; he spent a pretty good portion of the video explaining this.
why..? it's just reinventing the wheel and isn't gonna be used even if it's better. the standard aint gonna change
BMEP of 1.2... Not impressed.
There were 50cc motors in the 70ies that had 14+hp made by Honda.
Also. Those are rotary valves. They are worse than poppet valves at sealing and inherently leaky. (So EXACTLY the same problem as rotary).
The gear meshing will take at least 8% efficiency from the getgo, because it is similar to differential gearset.
Overhung cranks are a likely problem
So no oil at all? That doesn't make any sense at all
It has oil, the ceramic seals don't need lubrication.
very simple intake and exhaust. i suppose its not very tight but im sure it can have quite insane rpm. also it intake and exhaust are completely undisturbed by any valve like in traditional engine. yeah i guess that is cheap engine for suicide drones for sure. wonder if it was used on any.