LAST OF US Episode 9 Breakdown - Ending Explained and Every Easter Egg
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- čas přidán 11. 03. 2023
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Rohail Mistry, Lee Mazzio, Brianna McLarty, and Harriet Lengel-Enright
#LastOfUs #Breakdown #EasterEggs
We open with Anna, Ellie’s mother, running through the woods. This is by far my favorite easter egg in the show. Anna is played by Ashley Johnson. 80s babies might know her as Chrissy on Growing Pains, Marvel fans know her as the Waitress in the Avengers, but a lot of you might also know her from Critical Role, where she role plays d&d with a group of other prominent voice actors on a weekly twitch livestream. [clip].
But last of us fans know her as the actor who plays Ellie in the game. So Ashley Johnson has given birth to Ellie in the game, and in the show.
Doug: That’s so cool!
I know, right? She even looks like Bella Ramsey.
Now all of this is a new sequence that does not appear in the game. Although the backstory-the relationship between Marlene and Anna, was implied in the game and in the American Dreams comic book. Now showing Anna struggling to reach this house-how she falls, outranks the infected-and then her water breaks [clip, 1:20]. All of this is showing that Anna is the first of many people who have fought to keep Ellie alive.
When Anna is attacked by an infected, she fights back with her knife. The same knife that Ellie has used all through the series, drawing one of many parallels to her and Sarah. Remember, Sarah was briefly fascinated by Joel’s knife in the first episode.
And this episode is the first time we’ve seen exactly why Ellie is immune, like Blade, she’s a daywalker.
Doug: What do you mean by that?
Well, Blade is a vampire who can walk in the daylight, because his mom was attacked by a vampire while he was in the womb. In the same way, Ellie's mom was attached the moment she was giving birth. S Ellie's stem cells-maybe?--found a way to control the fungus.
Doug: Science and stuff.
That’s right. So the episode begins with a mother giving her life to save Ellie-and it ends with a father taking life-to save ellie.
Then Marlene shows up to the house, and she’s played by Merle Dandridge-the only actor in the show playing the same character she did in the game. Marlene finds her best friend and her new daughter-and it's hard to not find a parallel here with other Chosen One babies. Moses was discovered floating in a basket. Kal-El was in a rocketship. Tee’s a narrative trope of babies with a special purpose being alone, and then taken in. This is all building up to the idea that Ellie exists for a reason.
Again, the show has been building this idea up in our heads for a long time. [ep 8, things happen for a reason]. Or when Ellie talked about her greatest purpose [clip].
Now I would argue that Ellie did exist for a nobler purpose, but we can talk about that later in the episode. So as Marlene arrives in the house, we hear Anna singing [clip].
Doug: Yeah, what is that, boys to men?
No, that’s “The sun always shines on TV” by ah-ha-and there is a lot of hidden meaning packed into that song. First of all, you’ll remember that Ellie had an ah-ha cassette, and she and Riley had their small adventures set to the song “Take on me.” [clip] Knowing that Anna was an ah-ha fan, this makes me wonder if Marlene found a way to give this cassette to Ellie, because she knew her mom would have wanted that.
So the lyrics that she sings are: Touch me, how can it be? / Believe me, the sun always shines on TV / Hold me close to your heart / Touch me and give all your love to me.
Doug: To me….
There’s a very literal meaning here-a mother is singing to her daughter to hold her close, to get all of her love. But on a more meta level, the song is a deeply ironic statement about how television prepares us for happy endings that never come in the real world. The music video begins with a man singing to a woman, as the man slowly becomes a drawing. And it's a very slow, somber part of the song [cli].
And then comes a “the end” card-in the same way that this prologue is showing the end of Anna's story but the beginning of Ellie’s. So this show within a show depicts a man who is transforming into something else-so he can't be with the woman he love.s in the same way, Anna is transforming so she can never be with ellie.
And then the band performs the song in a cathedral in front of mannequins. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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Well, f.. the idiot doc, on an asumption and a clear misguided trust of his medic expertise, he decides to exhaust the only inmune specimen... if his hypothesis was wrong he just says get me another one I'll try sthelse with the same method, ultimating chances... so Joel did the right thing terminate idiocy.
Moreover no studies, no background, no investigation just on a belief they were to terminate Ellie. I understand is postapocaliptic and all research might be lost or exhausted, we are talking about 2003 research and medic tech, so it figures out the stupidity of the method portrayed, same goes for the game it's old enough to present such decision.
Now there is this hypothesis about Ellie being infected with another strain of cordyceps, but that is discarded by the intro on this chapter, well compared to blade, thus just to mention that the same thing that evolved the cordyceps in the series/game is the very same thing that makes Ellie inmune or transient to infection.
'til we find out the cordyceps' strain type, they still can state it was engineered or designed, hence prone to evolve and adapt as a symbiote, which can be the case of Ellie.
Either she is inmune, symbiote, resilent, etc... or even just an unique case... on the later the doc was an idiot and deserved to die for recklessness.
At any point this chapter takes away so many options.
Would also like to mention the bad standing they give to the fireflies, since the black female character knew a lot of the background of Ellie's birth she could explain that to the movement, then take pregnant volunteers to recreate conditions to spawn another inmune subject, again I understand tech of 2003 was not as merry as nowadays, anyway that speaks about why fedra was right about genocide.
If they have had the same information or lucky findings as the fireflies, would they have treated Ellie diferently?
Again Joel did the right thing, ultimating a bunch of ignorant cowards willing to kill a posibility of cure on a base preliminar asumption.
@@Hexodduz Lmfao how would that have been any better? The fireflies would then have had to cut open the brains of newborn babies to get the mutated immunity cordyceps out of them. Killing Ellie who Marlene knew would have wanted to go through the operation is far more ethical than killing a baby who doesn't have the mental capacity to make that decision.
Furthermore, this scene with Ellies mom is a completely new invention for the show. It didn't happen nor was it alluded to in the game, so this defense of Joel doesn't work in that universe.
Also, Ellie's mom lied to Marlene and said the bite happened AFTER she cut the umbilical cord. If the Fireflies tried to recreate the circumstances of Ellie's birth by sacrificing pregnant moms and their newborn babies, they would have failed every time since they don't know what actually happened.
Joel is a cold blooded murderer who only saved Ellie for selfish personal reasons of not wanting to feel alone again
Ugh another one who didn't get every easter egg but says they "did". Onto the next channel.
@@DeanoDino do you ? ... I bet you don't
There is also a part where Marlene says doctor THINKS it could be a cure. So that I think also triggered Joel not to let her die for a "maybe".
FR. You can’t just throw words like that if a life is on the line.
@@devielee00007 he would have killed those people whether it was a “maybe” or “yes” or “no” loll😭😭
@@camillej4593 hahahaha. Wouldn’t you?
Pretty much everything is a maybe though. And this one is like humanity's only chance as far as anyone can see...
Since ellie wasnt given a choice. Thats wrong in itself.
She's too young to decide is negated by the growth she's had over the course of the season. She isn't ready to decide because she's still reeling from the events of the last resort simply implies that the fireflies were impatient and unfair.
They also had somehow decided as adults that the ONLY immune person would rather be killed for a possible cure without considering doing more research and taking some more time. She's the only possible solution and they decide untested brain surgery is the answer.
Joel killing the doctor was harsh. I get he needs it to be a secret but enough paper trail probably exists, medical recording by doc etc could be there that haven't been shredded. He could've knocked them out and just killed the armed fireflies.
Watching Ashley Johnson play Ellie's mom with Ellie's voice gave me such a beautiful feeling of deja vu😭🤧.
hearing her voice (Ellie) and Tory baker (Joel) made me so happy.
Hearing her say in ellies voice: yeah you fucking tell em ellie made me tear up for some reason-
@@tbknick6703 Me too. Voice of Ellie telling little Ellie to fucking tell em was full circle.
I knew it sounded weird
IT FELT SO RIGHT. The episode immediately starts with no visuals but we hear Ashley grunting and running through the woods. I was so confused for a second because I heard Ellie but then saw a random pregnant woman. Only when they showed her face did I realize why I was trippin for a second haha
It felt like Joel was in haze as he moved almost wasn't himself, and let his heart guide him. You can see the clarity come back after he confronts the surgeon.
Honestly, this was the worst finale ever! The explanation of immunity is so boring. What is Ellie's mom was immune too and just passed the immunity on to her? We'll never fucking know because the show executed the mom and fed us this garbage origin story. I am going to save myself the trouble and not watch season 2 because obviously, this show will never get better.
@@minafrota6124 They are just following the game are they not
@Mina Frota
It was explained that since she cut the umbilical cord AFTER the mother was bitten, the cordyceps had a few seconds to slightly infect Ellie, but not enough to fully infect her brain. This resulted in a mutation to the fungus that lies dormant in her body. The regular Cordyceps can't tell the difference, so it leaves her alone as it thinks she is already infected.
That said, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the show. I'm sure there are other shows you'll find much more entertaining and enjoyable and you are entitled to your opinion.
@@Carlos-gm8rq You are correct that the last episode basically was almost a shot for shot remake of the game. They only thing that was really added was the opening scene with Ellie mom but other than that everything plays out very close to how it does in the game
Honesty This "Mina Frota" guy just sounds like he is looking for something to complain about, but because the ending was so fateful to the game all he can do now is nit pick everything lol
Because the player was in control
Sure there could’ve been a bit more focus on the infected, but for me, the beautifully written story about love and grief outshines every other aspect. The show adapted to that depth perfectly. 10/10
You’re right. It is called LAST OF US not ALL OF THEM lol
I think this story is brilliant because Joel makes a choice that we all know is messed up and selfish, yet 99% of parents would make the exact same choice, and the morally ambiguous nature and duality of that is what makes this story so powerful.
I saw a speech the other day where the speaker said something to the effect of “if you put a button in front of any parent that, if they pushed it, it would ensure their child’s life, health, and happiness yet it would also harm the planet every time it was pressed, there’s not a parent in the world that wouldn’t mash the button so hard it would make their hands bleed.
Right or wrong, that’s what a parent will do to save the life of their child. Consequences be damned.
@@jasonjack7606 In The Last of Us podcast, Neil Druckmann says that, for the game, when surveying people who didn't have kids if they agreed with what Joel did, it was 50/50 whether they agreed or not. But when he asked people who had kids, 100% of them agreed with Joel with "absolutely no exceptions".
That’s because a person has a soul. The planet does not. The planet is merely matter. We are body, mind, and spirit.
I am not even a parent, and never plan to be one, but I would’ve done the exact same thing without hesitation.
Perfectly stated. As a parent of two daughters whether right or wrong I’d burn it all down for them no hesitation. It’s like the director said this is a story about the lightness and the darkness of love. For love your can be the greatest or worse versions of yourself
"Time heals all wounds."
"... It wasn't time."
What'd he mean by that
>
?
@@noprovh7656 it was Ellie that healed him
@@noprovh7656 He is such a great actor so it was clear what he meant from his face, his voice...
@@noprovh7656 being able to bond and feel secure with ellie was what allowed him to continue on
@@gaymer6689 Okay yea I get that now, I understood what he meant in the other scenes like when he said ''I was the one who shot'' and all that.
The Ellie death/life choice was expanded upon in the game with audio logs. The fireflies weren't certain the "cure" extracted from Ellie would even be viable for a vaccine for others, the fact that they didn't tell her it would kill her before they put her under was just the icing on the cake.
Ellie always wanted to die, Neil cut that line 5 seconds short of her last monologue when she says "when is it my turn" after naming the people who died along the way. She absolutely knew death was a possibility on the surgeon's table. The reason why she's pissed at Joel is because she had that choice taken from her. She has survivor's guilt after killing her best friend.
The vaccine would work. It’s explicit in both games and even Neil confirmed it.
@@FabioF10 There is an audio log near the end of the game that is basically Marlene having her own private struggle with potentially killing Ellie on the operating table, and she talks about how it may be for nothing in the end as they are working with decades old equipment and an untested theory that they can develop a vaccine from Ellie's mutated brain tumor.
@@ODDaKilla015 my friend, its CONFIRMED by the dude that makes the game.
yeah this
That one scene where Joel expressed that his wounds were healed by Ellie was probably one of the most touching. However, it felt like Ellie was burdened by this throughout the entire episode (versus in the game) because she realized that Joel would now place her above the mission, even if it meant that she would die as a result. The comment she made that she would follow him wherever he wanted after everything was done even seemed like the promise that you make to spare someone's feelings.
Honestly, this was the worst finale ever! The explanation of immunity is so boring. What is Ellie's mom was immune too and just passed the immunity on to her? We'll never fucking know because the show executed the mom and fed us this garbage origin story. I am going to save myself the trouble and not watch season 2 because obviously, this show will never get better.
@@minafrota6124 Anna got bit while Ellie was still tethered to her via umbilical cord, perhaps transferring the cordyceps to her but a different/mutated version, sort of like how a mother's antibodies are transferred to her child. That's what made Ellie immune.
@@minafrota6124 if you’re such a genius screen writer tell us what your version of Ellie immunity origin story should be? I bet it will be soooo much better than the booooring finale we got
@@renaudlemieux1 I certainly didn't understand that word salad.
@@minafrota6124 There wasn't much of an explanation of immunity, and that was fine. It's the story that mattered, but if you're so frustrated by one scene maybe you should sit the next season out.
Joel carrying Ellie out of the hospital was an homage to Michelangelo's La Pieta. Parent holding a child who is The Chosen One.
Thank you for mentioning Marlene’s role in all of this. So many people focus on Joel being right or wrong but neglect to admit how guilty Marlene is.
Honestly, this was the worst finale ever! The explanation of immunity is so boring. What is Ellie's mom was immune too and just passed the immunity on to her? We'll never fucking know because the show executed the mom and fed us this garbage origin story. I am going to save myself the trouble and not watch season 2 because obviously, this show will never get better.
@@minafrota6124 lmao tell me u missed the point of the show 😂. The purpose of this show isn’t to delve into the origins of the virus. It doesn’t matter if she was immune or not.
@@minafrota6124 she wasn't immune. Nine great episodes and your takeaway is some weird theory no one else is talking about from a 5 minute opening scene of just one episode? Weird take.
@@icyvolts some people still just don’t understand this isn’t a zombie show. You’d think the fact that they’ve barely appeared across the 9 episodes would be telling enough, but seemingly not lol
@@GenghisWanghisSuper weird take lol
Personally, I'm fine with the decision to use the cordies sparingly. It's one thing to keep fighting infected in a game where you might die, but it's different when it's a tv show where you know the main characters won't. Imo, they used their time better building character rather than action scenes to stay alive with characters you know won't die, thus undermining their threat when they do show up. When they have shown up, it's been important.
I also appreciate that every time we have seen infected, it's lethal. Someone always dies. I think it makes the opposite point in the video. The rarity, but lethality of the infected we have seen has shown just how serious this apocalyptic threat is.
It's a fair point. I do think their relative absence does make them seem less rampant and dominant though.
That's what I was thinking too. And I believe they explained in the show why the infected aren't outside the QZs. I believe there was a line that mentioned there wasn't enough for them to eat in the rural areas
Joel’s almost manic euphoria while they’re hiking through the woods at the end was so unsettling. I never played Part 2 so I don’t know what happens next, but that sure felt like some heavy foreshadowing.
Oh boy, you’re in for a ride
@@Carcosahead 🏌
Please go play Part II.
@@Hollywood041 Maybe not, I feel like the show would be so much better to me if I didn't play the game. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but I think it would be better, if I didn't know the story already.
@@TChalla616 I think you are making the right choice homie, just be careful on vids and pages about it as there are a lot of spoiler spewing assholes out there.
The doctor was technically armed with a scalpel, and you missed that Joel's bad ear was bleeding from firing his weapon in close quarters
yup,
if the doctor stood down, he might have lived
The surgeon brought a scalpel to a gun fight
@@flerbus I doubt it because the doctor said he wasn't going to allow Joel to take her, which meant they would likely come after Ellie later if Joel didn't kill him. Same reason he gave Marlene right before he shot her.
@@tboneforreal yes, he said he wasn't going to allow joel to leave...as he picked up a weapon
if he had just stood down he may have lived
@@flerbus agreed, but I think its important to realize that the surgeon standing up to Joel with the scalpel was more of a symbolic stand than an actual threat. It was his way of saying "I believe in this cause and I will put my life on the line to defend it."
To which Joel responded with a swift bullet to the head. That scene was hard for me to watch because it didn't look like Joel thought for a second about his actions. But imo, this is what makes TLOU such a great story. Honestly, none of us can truly understand what Joel was thinking or going through without experiencing what he went through.
The ending brought back Maria's advice to Ellie, that the only ones who can betray you are those you trust
Ooh, nice catch there. And Ellie is betrayed by both Marlene and Joel.
I don't think it was mentioned but I love how the first episode was called "When you're lost in the dark" and the last episode is called "Look for the light" the start and end of the fireflies saying which opens and closes the season
I like how Ellie tells Joel about Riley, it’s like a subtle hint that she knows Joel isn’t being fully honest, like how she wasn’t being honest about her first kill.
Marlene: We can still find a way.
Me: This is the way.
Oh, NOW she wants to find a way.
My son wanted him to say that so badly.
They could not have cast a more perfect mother. She looks like she would really be her mother.
Yup,She looks,and She is the one that played Ellie in the game!
I think the sound is muffled in the hospital scene because Joel’s hearing has been affected over the years, and perhaps mostly affected by attempt to take his own life. There is a loud ringing after Joel fires each of his shots in the hospital. What an amazing sequence.
Well, one Joel is getting old. Hearing loss happens to older people. Two, shooting inside a confined space without ear protection will make your ears ring. Three, years of shooting without ear pro will also give you tinnitus (the ringing). Four, he's experiencing an adrenaline dump.
I actually think its supposed to be him dissociating. He's not *there*, he's deep in his past trauma. The way they showed the physiological effects here was spot on.
@@loganlapointe2744 hahaha "getting old". Yes, hearing loss happens in some older people but not, lol, when you are 56. Maybe in your 70s is more common.
This episode was an emotional rollercoaster for me!!
Honestly, this was the worst finale ever! The explanation of immunity is so boring. What is Ellie's mom was immune too and just passed the immunity on to her? We'll never fucking know because the show executed the mom and fed us this garbage origin story. I am going to save myself the trouble and not watch season 2 because obviously, this show will never get better.
@@minafrota6124 the episode was definitely the weakest and not a great finale for many reason. But yours is explained in the episode. The reason you list may just be a small sample size of you as a person but I will still base an opinion. And my opinion is that you're dumb. The sooner you just accept that, the better the world will be. You're a dumb person.
@@minafrota6124 I think you need a rewatch then. She was not immune, Ellie was because she wasn't fully infected because her cord was cut after birth. Also the explanation isn't boring isn't actually where that fungus grows, it's science lol. now the explanation of, that's the only way to get a cure out of her is lacking, but doctors are in short supply so maybe that's the only way THAT doctor knew how to extract a cure.
@@minafrota6124 and if you look, the wound didn't looks like ellies did after she was bit. mom wasn't immune it was already hurting her
@@minafrota6124 They didn't need an explanation. The one provided in the show was really only just handwaving to allow Joel to understand that they were going to kill Ellie.
Glad you mentioned Critical Role and Laura Bailey with the break down. Fun fact Laura also voiced the nurse in the game as well
And a handful of my favorite animated characters! I had NO IDEA that Abby's voice actor was one of my most beloved characters, Tohru Honda. That's actually insane to me.
"You've kept him alive so that he can die at the proper moment. You've been raising him like a pig for slaughter!"
- Professor Snape
I think Joel was right because Ellie thought the doctors were just going to draw some blood. She never agreed to a brain surgery that would probably kill her or leave her damaged.
Won't spoil part 2, but she does get pretty upset when she finds out the truth.
I'll spoil it for you. Ellie always wanted to die, Neil cut that line 5 seconds short of her last monologue when she says "when is it my turn" after naming the people who died along the way. She absolutely knew death was a possibility on the surgeon's table. The reason why she's pissed at Joel is because she had that choice taken from her. She has survivor's guilt after killing her best friend.
She was convinced that she would be the cure. Marlene obviously knew (or at least had an idea) how it would all go down by Ellie dying during the procedure but she basically tricked her (an adult tricking a child) into believing she was humanity's only hope. And then at the hospital by just putting her under she knows she is gutless and is denying Ellie the choice to make the decision on her own.
So, if the plan had worked out for Marlene and they operate on Ellie, she dies during the procedure and they get the material they need to create a cure and.... it doesn't work. What then? Shit happens?
I'm team Joel for saving Ellie. Sure, he to didn't tell her the truth about what happened, but at least she is still alive and can make a decision later on. He has taken on the role of her protector and sure, not telling the truth about what they were going to do will come back to bite him... but even if Ellie is pissed with that choice, she is alive and able to make that choice. Marlene's way, she would be dead.
@@Bicketybam68 i agree with both sides but ultimately joel isn't a good man but IS a good parent and made the right choice as her protector, as marline said, and now she knows the truth, if that is what she wants to do, she can potentially find the doctors to make it happen with her own consent and not being tricked into it as a child, yes it'll be hard it's the apocalypse blah blah but the writers make the world and can have that happen where she choses to die for everyone or not
@@Bicketybam68 As a parent I am sure I would make the same decision as Joel but doesn't make it the right one for everyone else in the world. Most important thing here is what would have been Ellie's decision, cause even as a parent I would have to accept that.
One thing on Ellie''s character, she lives with "survivors guilt" and she doesn't want to anymore. She has seen the worse part of the world by the end of the show/game and if there is a chance, not certainty, she would go for it, not to mention all the people who died to save her.
The giraffe moment in the game ,and show was beautiful that scene was so beautiful in the game and show Because its a nice break from the violence ,and it force you to take a deep breath, and take in the nice scenery its also a nice symbolization of there being a fraction of hope ,and humanity in the word its also super rewarding.
Yeah, but also, giraffes wont survive in SLC Utah, it's too cold. They'd be dead in the first winter.
I think the show did a great job telling us "Humans are Monsters" Fungus Zombies was just the key that opened that gate.
Loll, that's not what they tell us at all. The fact that you think this is what the show is about is sad as hell.
@@renaudlemieux1 weird flex but ok
I agree. I like how in the show & game the human monsters end up being scarier than the fungal zombies. Cordyceps is horror in its relentlessness, but it can't hold a candle to the cruelty of corrupt humans desperate to retain power and control over others.
@@renaudlemieux1 my dude tlou is literally about the people, the infection is the setting of the world not the plot
All I have to do is turn on the news and I’ve already known that lol hell covid also showed it when people went crazy for toilet paper lol
I actually recognized Ashley Johnson first in Dollhouse if you believe it. I forgot she was on Growing Pains. She’s had such an interesting career.
Wait Dollhouse the Whedon show? Who was Ashley in Dollhouse?
I never played the game so my first experience seeing her was on Blindspot
I used to love Dollhouse, what character did she play?
I Just know her from critical role 😅
@@acorlite ohhhh yeah! I vaguely remember that. Thanks!
I love how poetic Joel’s hospital scene felt. They nailed that scene on a bunch of levels. I’m not sure but I think Joel/(Pedro) smiled for a moment as he was moving through the hospital sensing a part of him loves the violence too - like Ellie.
He smiled? I didn’t notice that in the show! What’s the time stamp?
My thing both here and in the game is that everyone keeps saying that surgery was going to save humanity, but there was no guarantee...they were willing to kill just for a chance.
They had the opportunity to include the Doctor in more scenes, like the one Abby oversees in Part 2, and have him explain the risks and possible rewards of the procedure. Put some weight on the other side of the scale, when the whole show has been saying it just probably won't work. Instead they... didn't do that
It should be up to Ellie whether she takes that chance.
the show explanation it doesn't make any sense
the show says ellie is immune because the cordrocyps sends a message to the fungus saying ellie is already infected
so it doesn't grow in her and infect her like it would others
so why would it be in her brain if it doesn't grow?
if it is in her brain then it did grow?
if it is in her brain she wouldn't be walking around normal
@@SgtGrub also, the doctor looks to be maybe mid forties?
how old was he when the outbreak happened
was he pre med?
where did he train during the apocalypse?
where did he study Mycology, does he have a clue how to create a cure.
does he have the equipment?
wouldn't it be prudent to run some more tests maybe?
instead of cracking open her skull?
@@flerbus In the game, there's MRI's of her head that show the fungus had actually grown around her brainstem. It just stopped before spreading like it had everywhere else, some kind of unique mutation. They needed samples from that mutation, which well... would require taking her brainstem.
It only took 4 words to significantly change the ending. “We didn’t tell her”.
I like to imagine the game was developed based on that hospital sequence. An extreme and literal version of the trolley problem. The pieces fall into place when you start trying to justify that sequence, finding all of the ways that you can fully justify the decision to save one over the world.
Never trust an MD to do science work.
Unless you're a hardline Utilitarian, there are a hell of a lot of ways to justify Joel's choice, starting with the fact that it's unethical to _murder someone and harvest their organs for science_ even if that could save other people.
I've always been a fan of the theory that how the Fireflies, being a rebel faction would have never shared the cure with everyone even if they were able to successfully synthesize a cure. They would just keep it for themselves and become the next regime after Federa looses enough power.
The cure itself was never guaranteed to begin with as well.
oh, good point! I can see that.
The hospital scene made me think of the shoot-out in Face/Off where you see this ultraviolent carnage through the eyes of a little boy who's also listening to Disney music on headphones. Lots of dream-like/stoned elements to this episode, especially the giraffe scene. Possibly a nod to the whole 'sleep is the cousin of death' factor with Ellie's sedation & hovering between life & death.
This always felt like a problem that could have been solved with a conversation. I feel like Ellie would have asked important questions like "How do you know this will work? Can't you just biopsy some of the fungus in my brain without killing me? If not, is that because you're a bad doctor. Can we wait for a good doctor then?" Stuff like that. Then if Ellie still wanted to do it, it's her choice. Marlene's to murder a teenage girl, to [maybe] save the world, without involving that girl in the conversation is monstrous. Also it lets Marlene feel like she made the ultimate sacrifice by betraying her best friend and killing the child she swore to protect. Like she gets to live and tell that story & probably be hailed as a hero. As opposed to letting Ellie make the choice, probably the same choice, say her goodbyes to Joel, take a day to pose for the damn statue they'll owe her, and save the world her self. That's what she's stealing from Ellie. Not just her agency, but her valor. If that's how you're going to run the world, you're not worth saving. Joel made choices that also should have involved her, but only because she wasn't awake to make them. And he did that knowing that the consequences may be that he loses her anyway. That's selflessness, not selfishness. I get that the conversation didn't happen so that the plot could, but in general, people that are in too much of a rush to cut up a teenage girl to bother explaining themselves aren't people I would trust to have done the research necessary to be sure that Ellie's death was the only option. More like panicky idiots making hasty decisions. Sorry, Ryan, Joel was right. Maybe just as the result of a plot contrivance, but based on all we saw & all we know, he was right.
I always thought this was thr ultimate takeaway from that sequence: if the world needs denying a young woman basic bodily autonomy and informed consent to be saved, is it really worth saving? Joel did right by saving her, where I question his choices was killing the doctor - and, in doing so, removing her choice to sacrifice herself for the good of humanity in the future. He could have extracted her while still leaving possibly the last surviving medical specialist alive.
@@constantinak7719 You heard what the doctor said, and he even picked up a knife to fight off Joel. Now, whether the doctor was really about that business is another story, but Joel didn't want to waste to time get Ellie out of there. I guess shooting the doctor at the knee or leg was what I would've done, but at the heat of the moment Joel did what he does best.
If they had told her she had a chance of dying she would have still agreed with it. Ya'll missed the part where she implied she wanted to die from survivor's guilt. When she named all the people who died in her life she say "when is it my turn" - Neil cut this dialogue short in the show. Neil thinks Lying to Ellie is enough for her to stay pissed at Joel for 5 years. This obviously shows who was the better director for the game and that was Bruce. She wanted to die after killing her best friend and having survivor's guilt. She wanted her death to also have meaning. This is all mentioned in the game when you pay attention to the dialogue.
Well said.
Joel is just as much of a monster as Marlene as he also deprives Ellie of her own choice. And he pretends it’s for Ellie. It’s not for Ellie, if it was for Ellie he would have been able to figure out a way for her to wake up and make a choice, not kill the doctor and the rest of the fire flies and then lie to her. Very selfish.
I really like this show. All the actors are incredible. The set design is fantastic. The writing is so good
Oh how I cried bc of tis episode. Beatiful ending. You could see it in his eyes that he was gonna do whatever to save his babygirl. can't wait for the second season. BTW! when marline said that there is no other way. I automatically said "This is the way" outloud. I cant be the only one! Pedro must have thought of it too.
I initially thought after this episode that Elli might have known that a fatal operation had to be done to her, and that's because she was so absent at the beginning when they almost reached their destination. And also asked him if everything had happened as he told her to "test" him. But story wise somehow a strange decision that the immediately needed to operate on her, straightly skipping any tests or biopsies.
Maybe biopsies are tricky without a fully operational medical system.
The show was about love and relationships. The infected only serve to set the circumstances. There’s no reason to have any more action sequences in the show. You can play the video game for those. I think the show had the right amount of infected.
Exactly. Some people are still saying Bill's quest for the battery was the most important part. Love the game but glad that the creators sought out such a great director for television and didn't just make another sloppy video game adaptation
Completly agree
i am very proud and happy for your fighting and overcoming depression.
from a survivor to the other: love you man.
keep adding good to the world.
The shooting at the hospital remind me to The Terminator (1984) when the Terminator massacre the police station. Joel acting with precision and emotionless like a robot.
It was the perfect finale for a brutally great show, beautiful work
Ryan how do you crank out such high quality videos so quickly? It's so incredibly impressive. Would love to learn more about your schedule and routine. Hope you get a lot of rest and feel support from people around you. Sending thanks for your hard work!
Same. All the clips from other movies and tv shows for comedy is crazy. Plus it's so well scripted and clearly thought out. Curious to know how they get all that insight on meanings and symbolism so fast? I would have to watch these 10 times to pick up on all of it. Sometimes these videos make me feel so stupid.
I’ve looked forward to these breakdowns after every episode! Season 1 was so good and I can’t wait for Season 2!
Same!
Is it confirmed?
@@fortyozsteak yes it’s been renewed
Be careful what you wish for.
@@singleplayer69 not many will understand this comment lol
The beginning of The Sun Always Shines On TV video is the end of the story told on the Take On Me vídeoclip. He gets out of the comic page on Take On Me and he returns to be a drawn man in The Sun Always Shines on TV.
Thank you for the deep dive into the meaning behind Anna singing The Sun Always Shines on TV 😊 I gasped when I heard the lyrics of my favorite song being sung in this ep!
The Firefly deaths have much deeper impact on the show, I feel. In the game you just blast through hordes of NPCs, but in the show every person is an individual, who had their own lives and has managed to survive for 20 years in this world, only to be mercilessly mowed down by a grumpy dad.
Thank you for these awesome break downs, I always look forward to them every week 😁 can’t wait for season 2
Some subtle imagery in the beginning of the episode. Anna is giving birth right below a tree painted on the wall. Trees have often been used as a symbol of life, most notable Yggdrasil the world tree of norse mythology, the fact that a baby was born there is a tad more reinforcement of this. However because of the state the house is in the tree is dark, faded and almost looks more like how the fungus grows and spreads on surfaces. Making it also seem like a symbol of death
Anna's life & death, the infected's life and death, Ellie's birth and the birth of a "new" strain of the cordyceps being born within Ellie. Life and death coming together to culminate in the creation of the "chosen one"
Thanks for all these Easter eggs and reviews. Love you guys!
I love that Joel goes from thinking of the kid as cargo, to being protective, to trying to transport the child to others, to being a teacher once accepting the child as family. Hmm.... where have I seen that arc ... with Pedro Pascal.... in a show that's also on right now....?? (edit: shoot, I typed that before the video mentioned the similarities.... but, still)
Lol The Mandalorian, write down the name 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
19:11 this is actually foreshadowed all the way back in episode 1 when Tess admonishes Joel to “save who you can”.
I think the question of whether or not what joel did is right or wrong isn't the question we should be asking but rather do we believe joel would go to these extremes to save "cargo" and for me (as a viewer) to believe he's capable of doing it? Also, big win from the actors, even though I already knew where this story was going, I still experienced these gut retching moments like if it was the first time. Great show
My biggest issue with the ending has always been the need to kill Ellie at all. Yes, it's in the brain, but biopsies are a thing. The doctor could've taken enough samples without outright killing her.
Yes, there's a risk, there's always a risk with surgery.
But just outright killing someone? What if there's more going on with their physiology than just what's in the brain? Killing the one known immune person is stupid without properly studying them.
The second games story wants you to believe the doctors were 100% justified in what they did during the first game, but for the reasons you mentioned and several more, it's a lot more nuanced than that
Plus, they clearly did not explain to Ellie that what they were going to do was going to kill her. She thought they were “going to draw her blood and put it through a fancy machine,” so maybe she would’ve chosen not to go through with it if she was more informed.
@TANMAN84 1000% and people tell me im wrong for thinking that its just a narative that they push in your face
Even if this doctor didn't feel confident that he could pull samples without killing her, they should have given her s choice and an opportunity to consent to the procedure.
This is true, but who knows if this doctor was a brain surgeon. Biopsies are a thing now, but maybe not with what they had to work with. Idk. Brain surgery is complicated enough that I was okay, given the circumstances, that it would mean certain death.
I Want MORE 😢 Awesome Episode. Going to miss your breakdowns on TLOU ScreenCrush 😢
That first scene was so heartbreaking.
Great review
Love the series. I cannot wait to see more from all the writers and directors of the episodes.
An Easter egg I doubt many will catch can be heard in the elevator scene. If you listen to the background score, it is exactly the same as the Dynamic Theme that came with the deluxe edition of The Last of Us Part II. I know this because I have had that as my PS4's dynamic theme since it released. And that was such an amazing thing to hear.
Joel does actually speak about Sarah briefly in the game at that moment, too. Ellie says she's sorry and can't imagine his loss.
I felt the muffled hallway assault scene was nice way to involve you in the scene. It Gave me the feeling what things are like after using a firearm, especially in a confined area. And the laser focus a person can have when called upon for something important. Filtering out the extraneous stimuli and heightening the senses needed to accomplish your goal.
Human emotions are complicated, the difference between black and white is not that small, it has several shades in between, both of them were correct and wrong at the same time, its painfull but at the end there was no happy ending. Love the video, Loved the series and the final episode! Greatings and hugs from Tijuana Mexico!
greetings and hugs to you too!
I personally didn’t think the episode was long enough it felt sort of rushed and the main action scene went kinda fast
awesome editing and content as allways, thanks!
and yes, I agree, not enough zombies :D
22:22 yes, garrulous and obsequious, I was about to say the exact same thing
Honestly, I don't think it's ever really certain that what the doctor wants to do will work. And they aren't even going to try anything else first. All the current data suggests that there isn't a cure at all. I highly doubt that the dude had all the necessary degrees before the outbreak to be THAT certain. And the fact that they aren't even gonna do any tests at all? It's nuts. Not giving Joel and Ellie the chance to say goodbye is cruel, but only because we know that they've bonded. Marlene has known Joel for a while, and, as far as she is aware, to him, Ellie is still just cargo, so I can kind of forgive her that.
Ultimately though, I have been on Joel's side for ten years. The Fireflies were wrong, and they were gonna kill her, without trying anything new, possibly for nothing. And when Joel tried to at least get some kind of closure, to see her again, they threatened to kill him too. So yeah, I don't feel bad about the people he killed. They all tried to kill him first, and all of them were down with killing a child. They can pretend to themselves that they thought it would save humanity, but really? It was impossible to tell without data. So really, they were all just fine with killing a child for no reason.
yes this
the writers conceit that they could have made a cure because we said so is fine,
if you want to admit that you suck at writing and world building.
I’ve been living for these reviews. They’re the best 💜😂
Thank you for your video and can not wait for me video!!!
I love your little doggy and his shirt 🐾
I always respect and watch your breakdowns before others. Thank you! Loved it! ❤😊👍🏼🙏🏼
Overall this was easily best video game adaptation I've ever watched ,and truly one of the best television show in recent memories I really cannot wait for season 2 ,and bravo to Craig Neil, Bella, and Pedro, and everyone involved in bringing this absolutely wonderful story to an entirely new audience wait til they see part 11!👏🏾👏🏾
Totally agree with you Ryan! I am casually getting towards the end of my umpteenth playthrough of the game, and noticed that you get to fight in amazing scenes a lot more! The university, the infamous basement with the generator, the highway tunnel before getting to the hospital are just the first big scenes that come to my mind... I understand that TV is a different medium, and of course I wouldn't have wanted them to add all of those, but maybe one or two big scenes to build up tension and excitement... let's hope they take that mild criticism in consideration for season 2!
Love your videos
The doctor was going willing to sacrifice Ellie for an untested hypothesis. He didn’t know for sure that taking her brain would lead to a cure. There’s a chance it would have failed and the one immune person would be dead. It would be better to test other ways first that wouldn’t kill her. In that respect, Joel was right.
The flashbacks in the first two episodes tell you that it was never going to work.
Joel was not right. Joel was selfish as he always has been. The scene in episode one where they drive past the screaming family, he says "they're not family". He also mentions this again in the series when he said he'd do anything for family. Ellie is his family by the end of the game/show.
Ellie always wanted to die, Neil cut that line 5 seconds short of her last monologue when she says "when is it my turn" after naming the people who died along the way. She absolutely knew death was a possibility on the surgeon's table. The reason why she's pissed at Joel is because she had that choice taken from her. She has survivor's guilt after killing her best friend.
@@thanhiclez Have to disagree man, had they given her the information and choice Joel would be wrong, strongly doubt he'd rampage if him and Ellie had a goodbye after she made that choice, but because they just made the choice for her as well as also not making good on the payment promised to Joel, they got what they asked for.
@@dylanmcmahon9690 yup
marlene doomed mankind
My take on the show is if you want more "Zombie" action and more intrigue...play the game. If you want more emotion and story...watch the show. We have two forms of media for this and it gives us the best of both worlds.
Hey, ScreenCrush! Just wanted you to know that I haven't watched any other CZcamss. I was waiting for yours.
I agree… I wanted to see more suspenseful clickers, stalkers and runners encounters.
In the first minutes of episode 1 they explain that there's no cure for a fungal infection and that there's no way of making one. I believe Ellie's death would have been for nothing if they had gone through with the surgery.
All true. I agree 100% that they could not have manufactured a vaccine from Ellie. She would have died for nothing. BUT, in the beginning, they did not know there was anyone who was immune. I'm sure that fact alone would prompt a lot of folks to think that there is some type of treatment.
I'm team Joel on this one. Given everything we know from playing the game and the show. It's more likely that the fireflies would have thrown away this chance at a cure by killing Ellie. You'd think from a scientific standpoint you'd want to keep your test subject alive as long as possible to have the most chances to generate a cure, instead they jumped straight to killing her. Not to mention that the "cure" would only be an immunization, which would stop the spread of cordiceps, but the already infected are screwed.
I love the little back and forth promo between here and Heavy Spoilers. We are more powerful together! Get that $$$! Hope to see more collaboration and projects together.
They crack these videos out quick
Having had a daughter with health issues I totally get where Joel is coming from.
I don’t think asking whether Joel was right or wrong to do what he did is a fair question. The better question is “If you were in the same situation, what would you do?”. Before becoming a father to a daughter, I think I would have landed on Marlene’s side. As a current father with a daughter…. I would burn the whole world to protect her no matter the cause or cost. Again, I’m not saying I’d be right to do so, but I know how my whole world view shifted when I held that little girl in my hands. I’m with Joel alllll the way.
“Human!” Nice Star Trek reference there. I loved it.
that ad transition was amazing
How does Screencrush get these videos up so quick after the episode premiere? Do they get an advanced copy?
Yes
I think mention he's related to someone in production
A question I've had for all his stuff. It's crazy how fast he gets these up after a show premiers. He's got some serious editing chops and/or editors on his payroll. Also, why he can run so many clips where other CZcamsrs complain about getting copyright strikes will forever be a mystery to me I think.
i always question that and how some youtubers do that o_o but yeah i heard some get so popular that they do get special advance premiers or something who knows
Yes, HBO sends early viewing links to some youtubers/influencers, Chris Stuckmann said that in one of his series review videos
doctor was armed...he had a scalpel
if he stood down he might have lived
joel let the nurses live
It crushed me and I loved it!!
You missed the part where marlene told the guy to cover ellies ears when she killed her mom where it finally shows ellies hearing loss. which is why she couldn't hear joel multiple times when joel was clearly talking to her.
Ellie wanted to save the world.
To Joel, Ellie was his whole world.
Ever since I played the game a decade ago, I have always had a problem with the question of Joel being right or wrong. Reality was that they were living in a world where EVEN IF these docs could somehow make the cure it would be next to impossible to get the cure out to people. And the world is still effectively destroyed--even if the sickness is 100% eradicated (which it would not be). I also just generally have no faith they would have been able to engineer a cure. I think the most likely outcome would be Ellie's death followed by failure.
They couldn't mass produce anything. There was no reliable form of transportation and people didn't trust each other, I think the fireflies would have their people immune and that'd probably be how they'd recruit numbers but saving the world? Not likely
Laura Bailey also mocapped as one of the nurses for the first game, which is where Neil met her and decided she should apply for the job as Abby.
that was a killer episode! Loved the Ending! What a great Show!!! Loved the Giraffe Scene!
For those who didn’t played the games: This show will break your hearts.
I agree - not enough Zombies! Otherwise an excellent series. Looking forward to Season 2 - with more Zombies!!
This episode was so good!!! Felt all the feelings like when I played the game.
Sensacional como sempre! 👏👏👏👏👏
“A hero would sacrifice you to save the world, but a villain would sacrifice the world to save you.”
Just one word to say about this episode: ...Damn
Y'ALL ROCK!!!
What an episode!