We Are Failing Novices
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- čas přidán 20. 12. 2021
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I'm a writing tutor, which means a major part of my job is teaching people how to research. There's this idea on the internet that everyone already knows how to research, and that is so not true. Especially today, when so many books are sold that look very legitimate and turn out not to be. For that reason, I get frustrated when people say "just do your own research" as if that's knowledge everyone has. Being taught how to research is a privilege, not an inherent skill. People "just doing their own research" is how you end up with anti-vaxxers. People historically have always relied on the experts they know to help them navigate complicated topics. Unfortunately, this does put a lot of pressure on influencers today who didn't necessarily sign up to be teachers. This has created kind of a huge mess, where people we trust as experts are not either prepared or willing to play that role. That's a long-winded way of saying I loved the video--both novices and influencers are having a hard time, and we've got to find some way to share knowledge that leads to less misinformation getting out there.
Important stuff.
There's a big difference between knowing something, and understanding something. Novice practitioners need to understand it's not a race, and experience is time. It's in their best interests to open their ears to listen, not to respond.
Experienced practitioners need to be okay with answering the same question over ad-infinitum, and need to recognize unwise questions are often a result of social media trends and poor infomation. We need to lift novices up.
@Trinity M I never said that? I said exactly what you just said?
The fact that you just willfully choose to misinterpret my comments in order to place your input in there, shows you're doing the thing that you think I'm accusing people of, listening to respond instead of understanding.
You lay the points out very concisely. And thank you SO much for not using the term "baby witch." I loathe that label. A baby is learning everything in life from scratch; beginners in witchcraft or Paganism are simply looking at a new field of interest.
i see the same creators get upset when novices ask them questions because "google is free" but then get upset when no one asks questions because now they have no way to make content. its infuriating
Right? Or they say, "Stop believing everything you read online" after sending people to Google. It's nonsensical - how are novices supposed to know what is good info vs misinformation without experienced guidance?
I honestly HATE Google, it is so hard to find resources there nowadays that aren’t ads trying to sell you whatever they’re endorsing. It’s not impossible, but it’s super frustrating and demoralizing to dig through all that crap to find maybe 1-2 true sources. I now rely on recommended books and specific blogs/CZcams channels because of this.
I'm on a discord with very wise people and they always answer my questions really nicely but always offer an alternative. For example I asked if a flickering light could mean a sign or something and multiple people answered saying it is, others what I could do after that, and some saying it might be a draft and to check that out. I'm enjoying it so far!
It took me a long time to find my path. I don't ask a lot of questions, I just listen and read and read and read and read and read. Been at this for about 10 years or more. Probably more! I have severe ADHD and, on the spectrum, so I knew there was no way I was going to collect massive amounts of plants/herbs, stones, and the likes. The last thing I need is more clutter in my house. As a matter of fact, the only candles I will use when doing a spell are birthday candles as they burn fast, I know where they are, they don't take up a lot of space. I am sure that is why I finally found ceremonial magick.
Funny story, I once mentioned on social media that I prefer ceremonial magick. Some twat who thought she knew everything told me, "That's new age shit and not real witchcraft." Yeah, people on the internet are real tools. I guess she didn't like the fact that I am not into herbs or nature hikes and gathering crap that will just end up in a pile in my house. It isn't crap to people who love to work with it, and have a neurotypical brain and can use drawers and cupboards, but drawers and cupboards to a neurodivergent person just eat stuff you put in them. I think people need to accept people where they are at. As a neurodivergent person, I don't ever ask for help because that is when I get neurotypical people telling me that I need more drawers and cupboards/doors. Therefore, I have spent so many years just learning on my own.
i agree with everything you said. i think more experienced practitioners should learn to be more patient with novices, they’re not obligated to have the knowledge you have with so little time, tho i’m not saying everyone should learn to be a teacher for free, but to be more understanding with people who are just starting. you don’t need to actually teach what you know and your practice since it’s something personal, but the least we can do is teach them how to spot good sources
I've been at this a few years now and I can say, gatekeeper witches do fail novices. They fearmonger and judge and look down their noses, they rarely want to help. They are often rude and insufferable. I still consider myself a novice because it's a journey, not a race, and due to mental health issues and being the single matriarch of my family (including a special needs child), I am not as far in my studies as I'd like to be. I think people expecting a linear learning of witchcraft are ableist against those of us just doing our best. So while yes there is knowledge people should listen to, I also do believe one should sink or swim. I also don't understand what you mean about "folkism" being bad, I've never heard that. I wish you'd elaborated about it because I have no idea what you mean. Is it something to do with appropriation or what did I miss?
Folkist ideas are “white practices are closed to white people” type ideas. The violent white nationalist types.
@@WarriorWitchNike Thank you for answering her question, because I had no idea what you were talking about with that. I have only been studying for about 10 years. LMAO! I still consider myself a novice. For me though, I was researching all the paths and looking for one I could deep dive into. There are a lot of paths that I touched on, and went..."OH HELL NO!!!" That ain't for me!
Thank you so much for this video! I’ve had some encounters with certain witches that really made me feel so horrible… I don’t think it was intentional, but I have witnessed a lot of.. classism and ableism from the Magickal community… when it comes to asking questions, seeking advice, a lot of times it’s almost always… “buy this, get his, get that”. Type of responses.. which I understand and it’s important to research, but it’s _SOo_ discouraging as a Novice and someone who has a disability and on fixed income to constantly hear HP’s, Elders, and predominant and more experienced witches in the community with all the recommendations that require money.. and yes, Piracy should never be a go to thing, ever… but it’s like.. I just don’t think money should be the reason for anybody to feel pushed out of Practicing.. and I actually have almost given up many times because of it… I feel like a lot of practitioners don’t understand that being able to afford something that really is a requirement, as a privilege… I wish more people in the community understood that.. I’m lucky to have one person that is my friend now, that understands and is helpful.. but it’s very discouraging… and relying on the internet for research is hard.. lots of time, fact checking, ect.. and that much free time, can be impossible for some.. so I just stay away from any Bougie types.. but they’re all over the place now.. lots of people in it for the wrong reasons and lack of understanding.. but thank you so much for being kind and helpful and understanding! 😊🙏🏻. Blessings
I'm new to your channel and I'm really enjoying the content. I eventually left Discord (over a different server) for the constant "try google" answers. I used to ask for book recommendations on something I found that looked good and when I would ask if it's reliable, I would just get "look at the reviews." I did look at the reviews and that's why I'm interested and came to reliable practitioners to get their opinions. I just learned how to research on my own and go to local shops with questions and then cross reference. It was important they taught me to do independent research, but it would still be nice to get a yes or no on reliable sources rather than dismissing it. I think this video is important for everyone. Thank you for your content.
this was a great video, as always, but the kitten energy at the start? big mood
Ocean Keltoi suggested we give you a watch and I wasn’t disappointed. Great conversation with spot on points. Thank you
Honestly, I've so appreciated getting resource recommendations, even being intermediate within my path. When you're new to certain aspects or looking to deepen, there is A LOT of garbage out there. especially with all the racists in the scene. it's nice to at least be pointed to good books or good accounts that aggregate resources in a way I can trust. I have researched other things before, so I honestly sympathize with the overwhelming amount of reading to sift through. It sucks to waste time on mediocre books. And one of the best tips I got was honestly unexpected. I think I got it from one of your videos! Read anthropology instead of modern witch books to learn more about folk traditions.
As a witch who's other main hobby is martial arts I love the analogy
I think our culture is so results based, that the quicker we learn something means the better we are at it, but in reality this isn't necessarily true. You can pick up on the basics quickly, but learning and growing is eternal. BTW, awesome presentation. Probably the most well thought out and practical view on this tumultuous topic I've heard to date.
You truly are one of my favorite sources on this subject. Gate keepers drive me nuts. I always feel like you come with the best of intentions and deep consideration, and that’s rare. I love your content and I greatly appreciate your light!
I second this!!!!!! 👏 👏 👏
Ocean sent me. Subbed. Fascinating content.
Bless Splash Man
Thank you!!! Thank you so much for this! I am very very new to all this and have been TERRIFIED of posting in any of the Discord servers because I’ve seen this happening on the servers. I’m also incredibly introverted (with social anxiety) so that makes it even more difficult to build up the courage to ask questions.
The same should definitely go for sensitive topics. I've noticed (especially as of late) that a lot of our community just does not want to talk about certain subjects, especially if you're approaching them from a morally gray perspective, and it really does do a lot more harm than good. How are we ever supposed to figure out what we as individuals think if we're only fed one side of an issue? Absolutely love that you're back though :) and btw, not to sound creepy or ass kissy, but you look fantastic in this video. Whatever you're doing, it's working wonders and I want all the tips lol
As a complete noob in all this I can say I have a very difficult time finding good resources and places to find ones to help me even get started in proper practice so agree with what u have said in this video
There are several really great you-tubing witches out there, whom I (as a novice) have found very helpful. They are patient and good teachers, and share recommended books, etc. Some who I think are great (in addition to Nike), are Ari the Oak Witch, Hearthwitch, Mintfaery, Olivia the Witch of Wonderlust, and Bex at The Witches' Cookery. They all have very different personalities, of course, and you may not share my tastes! :-) There are others, too! Many have discord servers with a mix of people, of course, but mostly very helpful.
Awesome content, thank you! I'm very new and it can be so confusing to know what to believe and what not to believe. I haven't been asking questions of anyone, just muddling my way through by myself. I'm very much enjoying all the learning and practicing simple things. Your kitty is adorable!! I have a naughty one that gets into everything, I totally relate, LOL
I'm always so frustrated looking through Facebook groups, and the answer to almost EVERY beginner question is "there are no rules, do what feels right." Which just... Feels unhelpful. I try to give pepe useful information when I can because the non-answers get to me.
Too many people who are given instruction take it personally and what's worse is others take it personally on their behalf. They get mad at a learned practitioners response to the novice because it goes against how they do it or they misunderstood the comment themselves and then take it too far with their outrage. If they just took a step back and took a breath they'd be alright.
Starting with a perfect example! Numerous paths practice sacrifice by consumption, while others would consider it blasphemy to consume something blessed.
I’ve asked questions cuz I don’t understand what’s coming up or I can’t find it and then other witches just tell me to research it. Being a beginner has been frusterating. If I could find it I wouldn’t be asking 🤦🏻♀️ then my friend found me in the group and seen my struggle and she started mentoring me thank god lol
Thank you, well said.
Interesting analogy, In my personal experience, I've found there to be many parallels between Martial Arts and Magic/Mysticism.
Sometimes there are questions that are so intrinsically personal that only the querent can answer, even when seeking guidance from those further advanced on a particular path.
It takes a degree of self awareness, and integrity to step back and say "I don't know." This response is more useful than a forced response taken out of thin air, I know I would have appreciated hearing it when I was much younger. Happy Solstice, keep up the good work.
After watching fully, and being somewhat a novice (one that left for awhile because some are just straight asshats) I liked this video. It's hard being a novice because there is so much. I mean so damn much. I didn't know where to start. And some people really are set in their ways and believe that's the only way. Also coming in as an atheist, who didn't believe in any gods or any type of other being was not easy. I've changed my view points on things. Came back to the practice but solely keep it to myself. I feel even being intermediate or advanced, you're never going to be doing the "right" thing to some.
But I also kind of still hold the belief that whatever someone wants to do as long as they are not hurting themselves or others (and obviously being disrespectful or closed practices) is fine. It may be some of that atheist in me that just believes we are animals floating on a big space rock in infinite nothingness so why would I care if you're using one plant vs another. I'm very on the line of "who cares" and "don't look at me I don't know listen to those people"
Yes! I feel there are some who think they should keep to themselves and not have a community. The community is born though. I don’t understand the ones who are mean and crabby. You’re right, they don’t have to interact. Why be apart of a community if you think we shouldn’t have an open community? I love to share information and learn. If we don’t all connect with each other, we are less powerful imo.
Agreed 100%
Nevermind I have googled this
I’ve come across questions asking where can I learn about a certain topic. And to that I say CZcams and Google. I’m not going to explain to people how to type in a word, phrase or question on any search engine. There’s lots of things that I don’t know but now know because of searching on these platforms. I think what gets under my skin is that people still think that information on how to do witchcraft etc is still hard to come by.
Some time ago I reached out to a CZcamsr who offered some items for sale. One of the items was something I wanted to order (even had the item in the shopping cart.) But I was curious about the creator's process and practice with it. Their response was quite dismissive and very much in the "go ask google" vein. In retrospect I realized that I had asked a "novice" question. I thanked them, stopped watching their channel and of course no longer see them as a spiritual or material resource. I think it's very telling how (self declared) spiritually advanced people treat those they see as less knowledgeable. I got the information I needed elsewhere. And I learned an important lesson about where to not invest my time.
Having said that, not everyone is here because they want to take on the task of helping others. And, sadly, I've heard that some of the resistance comes from the fact that when they were newbies no one helped them out. They were treated the same way they now treat others. This is deeply disturbing to me, but not particularly surprising. People here are just like people in other communities, on and off line. I think the only thing that content creators can do is establish and cultivate their own stance on these issues. Some channels, like this one, make resources more accessible, and encourage asking questions, and that's wonderful!
If I could offer any advice to someone new to all of this, it's to take it slow because it's the journey of a lifetime. There's more to unpack that can be done in a day, or a year, or decades. The journey is the destination. And I'd also say it's wild country here, so pay attention, trust intuition, and gravitate towards people and channels that are openhearted and feel resonant. There's a lot to sort through, but it's usually fairly obvious which places in this community are more and less supportive.
As for the trend towards giving equal weight to all positions: I'm definitely a believer in DIY, but there certainly are best practices. Even so, sometimes the burned hand, or the broken thumb, teaches the best lesson. And if that broken thumb comes after someone willfully chose to not listen to best practices, or passively chose to listen to someone encouraging them to make their own choices - well, those are all important life lessons too. I don't think that means that we shouldn't strive towards higher standards, but at the end of the day, all power lies with the individual practitioner. Not everyone should be considered a trustworthy resource, and some magical practices cannot wait for proper form. Again, it's the journey that matters. I think we, novices and experienced practitioners, should take a longer view. There are a lot of people on the road seeking and asking questions right now. Not everyone here is going to stay. This is just a step on their journey. Regardless, the practice needs to become real, which means sorting these issues out in real time, taking active steps and experiencing outcomes. And for those seeking paths of leadership, leading by example.
So glad I found your channel! As a fellow content creator I feel like this is such an important topic. I think some of the best things for a novice to do is to get messy and allow yourself to totally mess up that’s how we grow!
Great video Nike! Appreciate you as always ❤️
people also need to know that teaching is a great way of learning! and learning is for everyone no matter how experienced you may be
Just subscribed!
I don’t interact much online anymore, and I’ve only been a practitioner for about a year, so this was insightful. It makes sense that magic has a “theory,” like music and other things experienced subjectively. Cross examining resources becomes exhausting and I find I rely on my book of shadows more and more (running out of pages though).
Thanks for your thoughts and I can’t wait to see more of your content!
Thank you! Regardless of the topic, nothing stings more than a question being unanswered in a passive aggresive manner, for example "practice makes perfect" is not an answer, it's a dismissal, practice what? Practice how? Did you even read the question? Why bother answering this at all? I don't feel it's the creators responsibility to lead every follower down the primrose path holding hands so to speak, but at least a real answer to help them find that bit of light in that dark cave of wondering. Otherwise, no answer at all is probably better.
I really loved your perspective in this video. This is super important to talk about and I'm glad you did!
Excellent points, thank you for talking about this!
Ocean Keltoi recommended to check out the channel... I’ve never been apart of a community before🤔 excited for the future you have my support 👍🏾
This video was much needed. Or at least this topic needs the attention it deserves. ✨
this was very insightful, going to check out the rest of your videos now to see if there’s something i’m missing as a beginner witch myself!
Thank you for sharing. I never really learned it myself, nobody told me is what I mean. And it is very interesting and important and it gave me material to think about. Have a beautiful Yule time (incase you celebrate it). :)
**resource question** Maybe this is just the way that I learn, but I seriously cannot find any good sources of spell work in a recipe format, a step by step with ingredients. The way that I learned to cook and bake was by following recipes and then over the years making them my own having the experience under my belt. But I can't just pull a recipe out of my ass and create something entirely from scratch with no experience. I'm wondering if there are any sources with spell work in that recipe format?
So much important information on here
I cannot agree with this more ❤
Well said 👏
I think another failure in the community is helping other practitioners move on from novice practices to more advanced practices. It's very difficult to gauge where you are sometimes, especially when you don't have a group or a very specific practice. I don't think cleansing/banishing and protection are always beginner level either.
Thank you.
GREAT video Nike
Hey I'm a bit deaf and I noticed that there weren't any captions yet. What did Nike say when they said "There's a difference between hexxing/blood magic and _____"?
It sounds to me like folkism!
@@charturnus Thanks for the prompt reply!
I gave up on trying to talk about craft with people. Theres just too much drama in it all online.. and you get tired of truly trying to help someone with saying things like "Feel free to take it slow" "Getting a true great foundation will help your entire practice"...etc etc just gets you told "Stop gatekeeping" "You cant control anothers practice....its do anything you want typw thing........."
I have a question about correspondences. I know there are "correct" correspondences of herbs, crystals, etc. But when I research them (and I research A Lot! Maybe too much, because:) I find that the "experts" don't agree on them. There are culturally accepted correspondences for some things, like basil/money, but most herbs (and crystals) are assigned many different uses, and sometimes there is basically no overlap between people's lists. Are they going by how it "feels" to their energy? How do you know which ones to follow? Thanks.
This is hard to answer cuz it really varies. Some correspondences vary by region, tradition, a sprinkle of UPG, and sometimes mixing in the medicinal qualities something may have (like an herb). That’s why finding the root of the correspondence is vital but SO difficult.
I'm such a dummy for leaving my comment on the wrong video 😆 My apologies. I've been bing watching your fantastic videos and got confused. I was wondering what your opinion was on the book Rebel Witch? I myself did not like the book due to the very reasons outlined in this fantastic video.
Great reminders for all of us to keep in mind!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Draw, open other tabs, *makes Mac and cheese* 😅
Sound advice.
Maybe I'm missing something what's a novice?
Nike, I likey. 🤗
First off, pronouns roll call!!! I'll go first, She/her/hers.
Secondly, thank you for sharing such important information.
New here, n subbed as an offering of support, inspired by Lord Ocean..of Keltoi!!
Going to be an interesting visit! I'll just set up over here ,out of the way..by the big Spruce!! Thanks!
People need to understand that The Magical and Spiritual Traditions do not come from them. Any Tradition comes from a Source. As far as Magical and Spiritual Traditions go, those Sources are not humans. And each Tradition has effective methods to do things within that Tradition. And so even though various Traditions use the same things i.e. Crystals, herbs, etc each tradition has it's own Effective Methods to use those things. Also the Apprentice needs to ask questions in a respectful way to gain understanding and the Teacher needs to answer those questions in a respectful way for the purpose of helping people understand the effective way of doing things within a Tradition or magical practice. Some traditions do have the same way of doing things but not all of them. Most traditions that do things a similar or same way, are related to each other either culturally or Spiritually or sometimes both. I think that is all I need to say. Best of Blessings according to the Rightness of Things.
Perhaps the real problem is that the majority of content providers are novices themselves, and don't know the answers. If they aren't novices, they aren't willing to share their next level personal practices in an open forum. A conundrum. I have a few questions: how do you define novice? Is it some middle schooler who watched the Craft? Is it someone pissed with their current religion? Is it some lost soul looking for anything? Blessings.