When Pagan Friends Fall Into The Alt-Right
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2022
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As someone who very much understands the emotional toll this takes on a person ~ thank you for doing this.
Thanks so much for talking about this. When you feel ready, I would love a follow up going more in depth on New Age to Alt Right pipe line
Thank you for addressing this nuanced and distressing topic so gracefully. Very timely. ❤️
I’m glad you talked about how to not yell at someone and force them out of a space for being uninformed. I was far more right wing, and it took me listening, learning, talking to others, and slowly moving my social sphere and personal beliefs. I absolutely endorse the idea of spaces where you don’t have to be defensive or explain your existence constantly, but working with someone who is not yet far right can be very rewarding. Each case is unique, and energy levels vary, so it’s not the only approach of course, but it CAN work for some.
It's very disheartening to see what happened with Georgina. Part of me wants to say "oh I saw it coming, there were red flags", but that's not really the truth. It's terrifying to think about how well she's been hiding in plain sight, surrounding herself with people that made her seem progressive. You two seemed to be very close, with the podcast and all, so I can't even imagine what you must be feeling. You said it well: it's not your fault that you didn't notice the signs earlier or that you couldn't "save her", it's just a testament to their insidiousness and a reminder for us all to stay alert and vigilant.
What happened with Georgina!??!!??
@@peach411 she was pictured with someone and at a gathering of people affiliated with Neo Nazi groups, and when called out on it, was silent for four days then made a statement that basically said she has too much of a life to check whether people are NN/supremacists or not, and contained quite a few more dog whistles.
@@peach411 This video is basically *about* Georgina. She's friends with Nazis along with a lot of other really nasty issues brought up through Discord messages and other sources.
@@peach411 She has friends who happen to be Neo-Nazis, a racist and a terf
@@xJadeWolfxx oh I’m
It not their discords so this is all news to me thanks for letting me know
I’m late to seeing this. I did not watch it at the wrong time. I saw this exactly when I needed to. I have cut ties all of my life for this reason, but the closest friend I’ve ever had is too far gone now. I needed to hear this. It’s time to call back my energy and center my mind back on myself. I fell off of my practice and into a depression about a year ago and now I understand. Thank you.
I am glad you made this video. Thank you for doing so much for this community. Please take care of yourself too and do what you need to do to process everything. Sending you much love!
I used to work for a social media company, removing hate speech and harassment content. Everything you have said is true. The slow pipeline is exactly how things have been set up to succeed, and it's terrifying. I have always been a socialist, always been hard anti-fascism, and 9 months into the job I started experiencing the beginnings of brainwashing. It feels like hearing thoughts in your head that don't belong to you, and I was terrified because I always, naively, believed that it wouldn't happen to me. I hope this video has been illuminating for those who might not have been aware of how prevalent of an issue this is, and how it operates. And thank you for you strong and firm reaction to what must be an extremely upsetting situation. Wishing you all the best, and sending you healing and good vibes ❤️
The Socialists ARE the fascists.
Alt right Extremism has absolutely invaded my community it feels so defeating. Too far gone politically... I heard that one deeply. I never noticed these things before until recently because in a lot of witch, pagan, spiritual spaces there's the "we don't talk about politics here" and now I see how problematic this actually is. I'd really like to keep this conversation going and I appreciate that you spoke about it because I am feeling overwhelmed and even alone in it. This insidious growing extremism has been very emboldened lately and is on the rise, even with people I never would have thought.
I've missed you. I'm sorry you're hurting. I appreciate your content and the amount of time and love you put in it.
As someone who once was engaged pretty deeply in the alt-right pipeline, what helped me the most was talking to those I loved who I knew were not also alt-right. At the time, I was very into the debate bro culture and wanted to challenge others with different views. I feel like that liking of debate and challenging myself and my beliefs to help strengthen them was the thing that kept me from cutting off my friends. I wanted my views challenged so I too could have the ideal interaction of wrecking a feminist. That never occurred, and instead my friends challenged my views in a compassionate way that supported my departure from the alt-right.
I feel like having support is something a lot of folks lack in the alt-right space, and once they entice you by aligning with some of your beliefs and become your friends, they may encourage you to cut off others who aren't in alignment with them. This causes an echo-chamber that only gets louder and harsher and more violent the longer you stay, and leaving the chamber feels like torture because the group has caused you to leave your friends behind. It behaves like a cult in some aspects and causes fear of leaving and fear of questioning your beliefs, because then you'll be cut off for being too liberal.
exactly, she was literally reaching out to progressive people and now they're all cutting her off she'll be led down an echo chamber and her bad experience with progressives are just going to full on radicalise her. i understand being uncomfortable but everyone is making the problem so much worse.
Thank you for making this video. You said everything so well.
Great video!! Thanks for the upload!!
Nike I'm so sorry that this blew up like this. It sucks so hard, I mean I feel like its not difficult to not be an asshole, that its more energy to be a bigot than it is to be kind. You deserve only the best quality friends.
This is such an important topic to be discussing. Thank you Nike.
Very well-said! I'm glad that constructive dialogue is resulting from a very sad situation. And that many Thelemites are speaking out & engaging to draw clear lines.
Thank you for making this video, Nike.
As someone who lost family to the alt-right, thank you for making this video. Solidarity, and I'm so sorry you're going through this.
@DARK LORD 767⚕️🌀 Oh sorry no, they radicalized my family members so much it's no longer safe for me to be around them.
Thank you so much for the sentence at the beginning. I feel immense pressure that 'i should be working on this stuff and educating myself and others' which is definitely true but i am also struggling heavily with mental health issues and this takes a huge toll on my energy, motivation, empathy, and self-love levels. so, thank you for seeing me and others like me and acknowledging that it's okay ❤
This is important. Thank you for bringing attention to this topic.
Thanks for doing this. It is interesting you open mentioning seeing this space as mostly lefty. As a Lakota my experience is to be wary of the neoliberal racism and alt right in magical communities. When I finally stepped into the mainstream (as opposed to Indigenous) witchy spaces I was surprised (relieved) to find lefties here.
omg thanks for being open about it, so many people blindfold themselves because it's easier than to face this kind of issues... they don't realize that those beliefs can have real life consequences on real human beings who absolutely do not deserve it.
I’m sorry you went through this. This video is excellent though. You are at your best both in terms of fighting for what is right and treating people with respect.
I used to love Spirit Science, then the larger the channel got, the more questionable it got as well, less spirit mixed with science and more conspiracy theories that often have roots in xenophobia 😬 don't even get me started on the leader Jordan, total cult leader energy 😅
Yes, I thought they were interesting with cute low budget animation when I first saw his stuff in 2013/14... But now 😬 It seems like a lot of New Age spirituality easily slips into far right and other dangerous nonsense :/
can you give some examples of videos of theirs showing these beliefs? I never picked up on that from tjem
I've been watching recent events go down on Twitter; I never would have seen all this coming :( I really appreciate how seriously you take this.
Thank you for taking the opportunity to make such an informative and helpful post out of such a disappointing revelation. And I'm sorry that you've lost a friend in all of this. It's all so heartbreaking. I wish I could hug you for all of it.
This is why the Ego is so important to manage. And detach the attack of your view and not take it as a personal attack.
With that said. We need to also be objective with said views, we as humans make mistakes and will only inform our life perspective with our experience. And developing empathy is super important.
I want to say shadow work is the recommended route for this issue? But not everyone gets to have that in their life journey.
A cookie for the Algo. This vid needs more traction.
Feed the Algo cookies
Honestly, it is still a surreal feeling about what happened with Georgina but thank you for making this video! Sending a lot of love always ❤️❤️
So sorry about everything that happened, and thank you for speaking about this.
I watched this twice over now, unfortunately I've engaged with quite a few very far-down alt-right people in spiritual spaces myself (pagan and occult) and I couldn't agree more with your advice and points.
This was harrowing to watch, much love to you Nike. Although I've never dealt with this situation to this extent I have made difficult decisions in the past about the people I choose to associate with, and it never gets easier. I try to remember to see things as objectively as possible and see the person as they are right now and not get caught up in the idea of who I want them to be. Actions always speak louder than words and once you've done all you can the best thing you can do is move on with your life. But always leave the door open, people change sometimes and I believe love, friendship and education is the best medicine when someone realises the path they've been heading down and actively want to change. Sending all my love and wish you the best as you heal ❤️
I had a friend that I was in and out of communication with for years and one day he messaged me asking if I knew someone that he had been in a physical confrontation with in high school's address, I didn't but when I ask why he wanted it he said something about a "dish served cold" its hard for me to believe that he would dox/swat someone over a high school conflict but I really think that was his intention.
He went through a couple other accounts and when he added me on this most recent one he had 3% in his bio and was posting things like "any mercy is a grave mistake" and "I want everyone to have a 3% patch and a gun in every hand"
Theres other stuff but tldr idk what happened, when I think of all the fun times we had together I never envisioned he would become a militant alt-right extremist.
I never accepted that final request its just sitting forever ignored.
😩 please come baaaaack
Thank you for this video, I’m sure it wasn’t easy to make. I will be sharing it to all of the pagan groups I’m a member of on Facebook. As a huge fan, I am devastated. I largely accredit them with getting me back into the occult. I can only imagine how it must feel for you. I hope you’re peace is protected, as well as can be. Blessed be.
Thanks for making this video, I see that it was a difficult one to make. I'd like to make 2 specific points that I think are important.
1. I think when dealing with these yellow flags it's important to realize that people won't change unless there is a sincere desire to grow and learn. To accept correction takes humility and if someone is receiving some feedback or correction, and isn't taking it well, that itself should be a huge red flag. This can also inform our approach when speaking with our loved ones. My mother is conservative and has friends that have fallen down the pipeline to a certain extent. I've seen red flags with her but because we are able to have open conversations in good faith and she's open to learning, I'm pretty confident that she is much safer than she was.
2. It's important to know why we believe what we believe. From what I've seen of people that claim to have used to be on the left but is now on the right is that their impression was that the left believes things on a superficial level. So, for example, why practices might be closed or why certain phrases or words should not be used. To someone that doesn't understand the context, us insisting on using "woke" language can look superficial, dogmatic, rigid, or, at worst, it can look like suppression of free speech. Like why the use of "First Nations" is better that "East Indian" for example. Having a firm foundation of knowing why we do what we do can not only can help our friends, but it can also help keep ourselves safe too.
A lot of people don't expect to find themselves in hate groups, and nobody sees themselves as a bad person. And I think a lot of people who fall down that pipeline still believe that they're not racist or bigoted or whatever. It's important to recognize that it can happen to anyone. I am not immune, you are not immune. The alt-right thrives on basic human needs, the need to belong to a group, the need to feel like life has a purpose, a desire to connect to the divine, the desire to know the truth. It's important to reevaluate our beliefs, our values, our friends, etc, from time to time. Abby at Philosophy Tube put it a really succinct way "Ideologies are like assholes. Everybody's got one, we use them every day, but you very rarely look at your own unless something's gone wrong." (From "Jordan Peterson's Ideology" 2021)
Take care everyone. oxoxo
Knowing when to cut someone off vs giving them grace and the chance to grow/ believing in their good faith is indeed so so hard. I haven't followed enough what happened with your former co-host to have a fully formed opinion but there are definitely red flags now. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
What you're saying reminds me of all the talks about "cancel culture", I used not to believe it was a real thing but since then I've seen people being cancelled over relatively petty things or it going so far that it's not just cutting links with a person but harassing them (which is never acceptable in my view, and obviously not saying that's what happening in this case). It is tricky because being "against cancel culture" is often used as an alt-right dog whistle but there also can be legitimate critiques of how things are handled in our left circles. Not considering that can lead people who have a problem with the way things are done or, like you said, who are afraid they will be cancelled because of their ignorance into falling down the alt-right pipeline (or make them stay there). The left generally has a massive problem with "moral purety", but at the same time being too understanding of people with certain views leads to being complicit to sometimes great harm, so where do we put the limit, collectively and individually? I find it so hard to answer. As someone who did leftist activism and want to go back to it, I know I have to associate with people who have different views than mine, but to what extent can is it possible until I'm compromising my own values too much?
All of that to say that I get why someone may find themselves in the situation you're in, it's not your fault :)
Can someone explain what happened with Georgina pls?
This is so important! Thank you for talking about this!
I see your pain. I’m so sorry. This is never easy but I’m glad you found the strength to let go. Hugs to you.
Keep up the good work. We need to hear your bright voice in dark times like this.
Hi Nike. I really appreciate your honesty and that you took the time to make this video. I’m so sorry about what’s happened with Georgina. It’s definitely a tough blow for the community, and I can’t imagine how hard it must be for you. Much love and healing.
Can you expand on why closed ethno-religious practices aren't bad in themselves?
I guess I don't understand why an ethnic religion which became closed years ago is morally acceptable -- while an ethnic religion that's chosen to close their practices in more recent times are morally offensive.
_How does the date in when a practice became closed affect the morality of someone's belief in ethno-religious segregation and racial discrimination when deciding who's allowed to participate and who isn't?_
It’s less the date and more the conditions. If it was always closed in recent history due to attempts to protect it from genocide and colonization, and in the name of protecting a marginalized culture, that’s very different from trying to close something based on ethnicity with the intent to exclude others despite your ethnicity being the dominant culture. Compare indigenous cultures’ history with being colonized, being the victims of genocide, and continued racism even today with the AFA trying to explicitly end race mixing.
Hi Nike! While I 100% agree on what's been discussed in this video, there is one small thing that I think could be improved. That being the term "saving" someone.
While I don't think your use of the word is wrong, as someone who use to be homophobic, transphobic, traditional christian ideals kind of family deal etc... what helped me out of that was listening to others around me without them being condescending. I've had people approach me with preachy vibe, directly telling me that they were trying to "save" me before on my religious views, transphobia etc... and it actually pushed me away and further into conservative territory because I felt indignant at how others thought I was incapable of rational thought. The underlying implication that I was some woefully lost child to be talked down to - things I picked up on and rejected angrily, even though now I agree with what they were saying. 99% of the time, people are not going to be receptive to anything you have to say if you use language that may come across as condescending.
I liken it to all those Christians in youtube comment sections telling us we're sinning and going to go to hell. Even if it's done without hatred, there's always an element of being talked down that makes it so repellant to read, much less accept. Of course, I'm not saying you cannot use the word save, it is just a suggestion that maybe "help" would be a better word? Just as something that triggered those memories in me when I heard you use them in that context.
I hope you don't think that this is an attack on you or what you're saying. I just thought it was an important thing to point out, though a small one. I hope this might help you if you ever encounter another situation where there is still time to help a friend falling into these troubling views.
Also I'm really sorry about what happened with Georgina. I can tell this situation as really hurt you, and justifiably so. Stay strong, warrior witch.
I think "save" is just like trying to help your friend not get sucked into something bad. Not the actual SAVED of the christian world.
@@Tiffany-Rose they know that and when they're picking out that word they're not speaking on it in the way that you think. They know she dosen't mean saved as in salvation in a christian sense they're talking about the connotations of the word in general like the definition.
@@x.astar.x this is 8 months old lol. they relate it to religion, I'm simply stating its multiple uses. Not everyone has religious trauma.
I don't really believe that what you're talking about with racism and prejudice is really a left or right issue. I've seen both sides be extraordinarily racist and it's disheartening. This is a people issue. they might be different reasons for being ignorant and their message may vary, but racism is racism all the same.
I've had to cut off most of it family and friends since Trump.
Thank you for a balanced, well thought out video. so necessary, and yes, these days it is so important to help create,maintain and facilitate safe spaces for ourselves and for those who come after
Lol this is why i stay to myself and dont really talk about what deities i work with or things i do because of the gatekeeping that occurs in alot of areas
Nike, Goddess of victory right?
I'm somewhat confused because I'm missing some context here, I don't listen to any podcasts, so I have no idea what was said or what happened, I suppose if I were more informed about the situation I would understand the point here. Feeling it is necessary to break away from a friend or loved one is hard regardless of the circumstances, and again, I must be missing some context, I certainly agree attempting to close an open practice based on prejudice is awful, I suppose I dont know who tried to close what, why or how, I'm confused about why "conservative " has come to mean "racist" and how attempting to change or control another's behavior, feelings,beliefs or criticize a broad group based on assumptions is appropriate either. The older I get the less this world makes sence. I am however completely capable of having an awesome conversation without allowing logic to make me angry🥰 thanks for reading my tired rambling brain dump 🕯
Georgina from OWASS/magnolias and magic was pictured with people affiliated with neo Nazi groups, was pretty quiet about the situation for four days, then issued an “apology” that minimized how bad the situation was and said she couldn’t be bothered to make sure her friends aren’t Nazis because she “touches grass.”
@@zombotacoful thank you, that is not a good look , sorry to hear that. I found her content informative . 😕
@@zombotacoful Personally I will wait until I hear Georgina say something racist herself before considering her a racist. I would rather be vulnerable to disappointment than to condemn someone who, to my knowledge, hasn't actually expressed bigoted views.
@@Matt-mj3lk i agree.
@@Matt-mj3lk there a ton on Twitter and she already admitted she said horrible things that she apologized for in 2019 which was apparently "a long time ago." I'm just saying it's not unfounded.
To me what is so perplexing about this situation, is how unexpected this all is. Georgina opened my eyes to how broad the occult is. Being a loyal listener to the magnolias and magick podcast and your twitch streams together, i would have never guessed that she had these values. I had doubt and I truly expected her to rebuttal the claims and be soft with her apology, showing actually regret for her actions but it truly felt bitter. From what it seems, she’s not sorry. And that sucks, because she hurt people. I’m so so sorry Nike.
Okay so is hoodoo a closed or open practice to people of color (please don’t think I am racist or ignorant I’m only 13 I just don’t know )
The answer is that it’s complicated! I’d seek out some hoodoo practitioners who I’m sure have answered before. It’s very much culturally rooted and has a lot to do with links to ATR but it’s not a blanket closed/not closed answer
Thank you for answering my question 😊
My uncle is very Christian when we were out yesterday he turned the whole day into a fox news session he wouldn't stop reading their awful articles
I'm sorry, I was very disturbed when I learned about the allegations of Daat Darling. I'm so sorry.
For me, it's important to see from which Ministry of Truth the massage has come.
What is AFA?
haven't watched the video yet but since I see that Nike will be speaking a bit about Heathenry I assume AFA is referring to the Asatru Folk Assembly. I'll update my reply if it turns out I'm mistaken. UPDATE: I'm watching the video and yes, I believe Nike is speaking about the Asatru Folk Assembly.
Is wanting an all-white space always illegitimate?
is it like confirmed about GR? i loved watching her and she had a lot of knowledge on the occult… the whole thing is upsetting honestly. i saw some stuff on twitter but confused because even though it’s 10000% sus, i didn’t see any CONFIRMATION or any solid evidence of it. i really hope someone didn’t decide to just ruin your relationship out of spite or something. idk just seems so sketchy
What is GR?
i knew there was something wrong with her when i saw that she followed blaire white on twitter. so damn disappointing, i really did enjoy her way of explaining things.
Who is Georgina ?
An occult content creator who specifically does content around ceremonial magick
@@micheller3251And what about her?
It’s sad when this happens. It’s like they are choosing the dark side rather than the light. Embracing their character flaws instead of fighting against them. Choosing fear and hate mongering over kindness and love. My mom lost a lifelong friend to the alt right movement. She began listening to fringe programming and parroting crazy conspiracy theories. She became ultra Maga and couldn’t shut up about it to anyone who would listen even if they didn’t want to. She eventually lost all of her friends who couldn’t take it anymore and her only daughter decided to move away from her because she became so out of control and paranoid. There was no getting through to her, so she lost everyone she loved. She fully bought into stupid sh-t like Democrats were stealing children and drinking their blood to stay young in the basement of the White House-I kid you not 😂. I was like “are you kidding??? Anyone who ever saw half of those people in office never accused them of being young!” 😂
sorry but this is ridiculous. u talk abt how even centrists need to be “saved” and how cancelling is people “calling out ignorant views”. and then u wonder why people say ur in a left wing cult. you demand tolerance but don’t extend it to the views of anyone that doesn’t agree with you
I don’t tolerate people who want to strip me of my rights or my life. :)
You can dislike some of the food that gets brought to the potluck. We can talk about who has the better recipe for potato salad. But we don't need to tolerate or accept the person who brings dog shit in a bowl to the potluck. We don't have to tolerate the intolerable. This idea that the left is somehow meant to "tolerate" everything and anything is stupid. Thoughts, actions and opinions don't happen in a vacuum and they don't have equal value. Don't be stupid.
@@WarriorWitchNike So you would rather accuse people of something without evidence and assume that the rumors are true? That would make you very judgemental.
Everything is a personal choice. Is it a question of saving someone? Yes, lots may degree with other, so a Nike, you can remove them from your circle. Each of them made personal choices. Personally I don't agree with hate in any form. Though it's not my place to judge and over my many years of life have found that when I did it didn't end well for myself. I'm the only one who can do me. So, I stay out of doing someone else.
Do people not see there are fringes on both sides? Look at both then not just the Alt-Right but also the Alt-Left for there for sure is one.
May Nike heal!!!
@Trinity M This is the point. I don't agree with hate at all. You're missing the mark. Though hate comes in all forms, now doesn't it, and for many reasons, right or wrong. Maybe some of you would benefit from listening to a bit of Jordan B Peterson.
@@JS-rk2rd maybe a bit. Because listening to him too much you might start believing the conspiracies and lies he sells people. Like, don't get me wrong. He helps some people. I have friends that used his book to help themselves. I just wish people who like him were more critical of him. He's pushing a political agenda and has no problems lying. Like the things he said around bill c-16. The bill is about 15 lines long. Easy to read, no small text. The law is longer. Did the people who believed him read it? No. But a ton of them did tell trans people to die because "you are forcing us to use your pronouns or go to prison"?
And you can say that he doesn't endorse such hate. But it hardly matters if he endorses it, it's the effect he's having on many people. Someone as smart as him should be aware of how he's affecting others. I used to give him the benefit of doubt. Bit at this point he should be clearly aware that what he was saying is false, yet he's still repeating that stuff just not mentioning bill c-16 directly but making it more vague.
If you get some help from him great. Personally i like to take life advice from people who are honest, can own up their mistakes and openly admit their ideological views. At least then you openly know what lense they're viewing the world and talking through.
@@JS-rk2rd And there it is.... the Jordan Peterson reference and recommendation. You're in the alt-right pipeline and don't even know it. "Both sides", Whataboutism, Jordan Peterson. You're plodding along at exactly the rate it usually happens. People who listen to Jordan Peterson NEVER go left. They ONLY move farther and farther right. Your first mistake is thinking that racism/white supremacy/ethnocentrism requires feeling the literal emotion of hate. It doesn't. You don't have to feel "hate" to be a racist or a white supremacist or alt-right.
Just become a gnostic Christian at this point.
We will be happy.
You will be happy.
Do not come back.
No thanks Gnosticism made me suicidal