How to Make the Inner Coil of a Mainspring Smaller- Without Breaking It
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- čas přidán 29. 03. 2023
- In this video, I'll show you how to make the inner coil of a mainspring smaller without breaking it. If you're working on a watch mainspring replacement, you may encounter a mainspring with an oversized inner coil. This can make it difficult to hook the mainspring on the barrel arbor.
But don't worry, with the right technique, you can safely and effectively reduce the size of the inner coil. I'll guide you through the process step-by-step, highlighting key works and demonstrating each stage of the procedure.
We'll begin by explaining why it's important to adjust the size of the inner coil and how it can impact the performance of your watch. Then we'll move onto the tools you'll need and provide some tips for preparing the mainspring for work.
Next, we'll demonstrate the technique for reducing the size of the inner coil. We'll show you how to hold the mainspring securely and use a pair of pliers to gently compress the coil.
By the end of this video, you'll have a clear understanding of how to make the inner coil of a mainspring smaller and how to do so safely and effectively. Whether you're a professional watchmaker or a DIY enthusiast, this video is a must-watch for anyone working on a watch mainspring replacement.
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USED IN THIS VIDEO
► Soldering Iron watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Round Nose Pliers watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Dumont 00 watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... Tweezers (Amazon)
► Shellac watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... ( Amazon)
► Spirit Lamp watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Bench Block watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
MY MICROSCOPE SET-UP
► Amscope SM-3T watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... Amazon)
► Barlow Lens watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► LCD Ring Lite watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Hayear Microscope Camera watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Camera Adapter watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
** FULL LIST OF TOOLS & SUPPLIES I USE **
watchrepairtutorials.com/tool... - Jak na to + styl
Alex, thanks so much for this tip. I came back to this video and it finally clicked. I get it now! What a world of difference this makes. I wish we lived closer.
That's awesome man. By the way where are you?
Colorado
Ooops. I was really responding to your lift angle video but the tempering vid also helped me resolve an issue.
@@normanrehme3836 love Colorado. Where about. What town?
@@watchrepairtutorials I sent you an email directly.
Thanks. Had a memory lapse on the post. Was remembering a new 2824 MS too small for my available winding arbors. Should have popped right in but didn’t and went downhill from there. You have great videos that the average guy can understand. Thanks again.
Glad I could help John
What do you do in that scenario? I have the same issue. Is tempering advised for that also?
Every single time I need to learn how to do something new, you already have a video which explains it perfectly! So grateful for all the hard work you put in Alex. It is so appreciated! 👍🏻
You got it Seth 🤙
Excellent lesson. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you liked it Peter. Thanks Buddy
Thank you, Alex, for the great lesson yet again.
No worries my friend. Good to see you again. How have you been?
What a great tutorial many thanks.
You're very welcome Andrew. I hope it saves a spring one day. 😃
Bless you sir. Struggled with this beast many times. I appreciate your advice
You got this!
Thanks again Alex, great information!
My pleasure Tom. Nice to see you again
Always something new interesting and Applicable! Happy when when a new teaching comes out :) thanks Alex for Keeping them comming Rick
My pleasure Rick. Actionable. I like to think of them as actionable.
Very useful, first time I see this issue treated. Many thanks from France
You're welcome my French friend. Thanks for stopping by
Great stuff!.Always something new interesting.Thanks,Itzhac
Thanks more watching what I do. Alex.
Great video as always! Crystal clear in-depth explanations, great editing, and overall quality.
Thanks for all this online material you provide, it's so helpfull!
Thank you as always my friend.
Great stuff! Made some really small round pliers from harbor freight by grinding it down to size.. but mostly for click springs . Awesome content !
Thanks for the info my friend. Good tip. Are you using them to form circle springs?
This is a question I wanted an answer to so thank you very much.
Glad it was helpful Jon.
Thanks Alex! You make it look easy. I can do this!
You CAN do it MIke
Thank you, Alex, for the great lesson yet again. it's so helpfull!
My pleasure brother
Oh a new video from Alex, opening, thumbs up, comment, sharing, watching. 😊
You're the best Michael. and funny
Clarity and practicality.
Perfect.
Excellent job 😮
Thank you very much!
Heck yea, this is the exact information i was looking for. I ran into this problem for the first time recently.
Now You know Billy
Thanks for the information! Always struggled with this. Hardest part besides the size of inner loop is installing the arbor!
Thats why I like my arbor vise.
@@watchrepairtutorials yes I saw you use those. Thanks for reminding me
Thank you Alex! Next time I'll know how to deal with those big inner coils.
Yes sir
Alex, it's almost like you know exactly the issue I am going to have next. Thanks for this video as I am working on an old Russian watch that is having this exact issue.
It’s not magic John, these are the issues I know people have. Thanks as always my friend.
Thank you for this video. I was able to finish an 1883 Waltham Broadway using this method. I guess new white alloy mainsprings are built assuming a larger arbor size.
Oh that’s great to hear Gregory. Glad I could help.
You saved me money today, I would have thought the roskopf watch I am repairing had the wrong spring as it kept being unhooked,however I had watched this video and checked the spring someone had already taken the temper out and tried to resize to fit the arbor. I have followed you video and haven't yet broken it.
There you go Andrew. Good job
@@watchrepairtutorials it took a long time but I now have a running watch.
@@andrewwebster437 Feels good, Right?
I have destroyed more mainsprings than I'd like to admit by crushing the inner coil. Another tip I haven't seen anywhere else. Great video.
That’s why I’m here Heath. 😄
Thanks Alex for another interesting video. I have a similar problem with my mainspring winder. The spring is not tight enough to get hooked on the winder arbor pin so I cannot wind it properly. I think your technique will help with that also.
Thanks for sharing. I didn't even think about that, but that's another good use of the technique.
Hello Mr Hamilton, I touched base with you after starting to watch your lessons. I thank you not just for sharing, mentoring etc. but because of your lateral approach. And, in this virtual world how you still reached out to show interest in my journey. So, in return here is my update. On topic of the main spring, this video was invaluable but just a week after I ventured to test my winder set on a 'practice' Seiko movement. Diagnosed issue that arbor was not grabbing spring so guess what I did. Learnt a quick lesson. And then you offered the solution. Further reading and I now realise the importance of understanding how metal and heat are used to change its properties. Invaluable but I do have a broken main spring. So, that is the purpose of buying a cheap movement (I bought 2 with the goal to have 1 fully working, fine tuned movement in say 2=3 months). OK, so progress so far. I have taken apart, re-assembled 4 times. Still not quite memorised sequence but comfortable. Tweezer skills, screw driver skills, keeping movement untouched, unscratched, using loupe etc. all coming along nicely. 2nd phase, I cleaned 1 movement. 5 minutes at 65c using dish cleaner, rinsed 3 times with final in IPA and dried in oven at 65c with fan on. This turned out to be too aggressive. Top bridge or main train bridge lost its finish. My 2nd movement is getting a clean today with 3 minute timeframe and less cleaner. Just need to get the formulae correct and repeatable to ensure I get the right outcome. All my tools are lovely and thankfully, with guidance such as yourself, I feel I have invested just right. I have a microscope although I only have one working eye so just a single lens fed to my surface pro high resolution screen works great. My goal I mentioned is to be able to service my 'baby' 1965 Grand Seiko watch in about 4=6 months but I also have thought that the Moeris swiss brand of the 1950s played a big role in Seiko's 50s to 60s period and want to service one of these for its lineage. Turns out the Grands Prix I bought had a broken balance wheel pivot so I am going down the path of learning to dismantle, re-rivot and fit a repaired balance wheel. Of course you have some great content on understanding how this works and I am supplementing this with further reading. I am getting so serious about this journey I just bought a Staking set and also reading up on its usage. I also do have a Timegrapher that uses PC software and this is proving to provide interesting in-sight into the behaviour of a mechanical movement when not properly serviced and adjusted. It gives me a baseline and I feel as my skills grow I will see this baseline improve. I temper this with the understanding that vintage time-pieces and the quality of the build dictate what can be achieved. I have also not been shy to remove and clean cap jewels etc. and yes, the odd one has tried to disappear but I have a nicely setup environment, good light, organised bench, and lots of patience so to-date I have not lost a part and my practice movements are still operating. Big ramble, but I wanted you to know that the Watchmaker bug and my excitement has not wained, it has cost me about $1000 New Zealand but I feel this is no different to going out an buying a set of Golf clubs or a Sail board so easily justifiable and affordable and the reward is immense. Hope you don't mind me dumping this on you as though I am your student but it is nice to bang out my thoughts...cheers, Brett P.S. the most interesting side of Watchmakers I was not aware of at the beginning is just how important it is to understand that you can manufacture your own hand tools. You have advised this and I am reading text from 1906 that talks about how important it is to make tools comfortable to use by adding handles and to prepare, sharpen etc to ensure they give the best result. So interesting is the history...
Just a couple thoughts for you. What was the Soap that you used for your cleaning solution. You need to be careful about the PH Level. That sounds like the alkaline level is too high.
The Staking set was a great investment. It is the one tool that has the most usefulness in watch repair. I will be doing some videos on its use and all the jobs it can do.
What you say about timegraphers is completely true. A lot of new watchmakers get a rude awakening about their skills when they first start using them, but a timegrapher doesn’t lie. As you understanding of inspecting and troubleshooting improves, those initial readings after service will get better and better.
“The quality of the build dictates what can be achieved” this is super important to understand.
“! have a nicely setup environment, good light, organized bench, and lots of patience so to-date I have not lost a part”. It looks like you have been taking some of my advice. If you do the things I talk about you will eliminate most of the problems newcomers deal with.
Too many people skip around the videos and miss all the little nuggets of information. This is why having a mentor is so important in the learning process.
You are my student and I am your teacher, well maybe a little so no problem. I really am interested, especially when I see the things helping you to succeed come from my teaching.
@@watchrepairtutorials fantastic, I'm onboard, thank you. I have a ph tester so will check.
Just thought, our water in Auckland is pretty soft and I don't doubt local supply cater so dishwashing in suds. That suggests Alk to me. Can I use the same stuff I use in spa pool to set to 7.0. Are we seeking neutral?
A bigger reveal, whilst making my espresso coffee I realized, my attitude is at fault...I treated my seiko $20 movement like it was junk. I used filtered tap water taking a short cut. That is more alkaline to start, ha other content etc so I created this problem. 2nd lesson learnt. Treat all your valuables the same...with utmost care! I am sharing so others realise the advise you receive is not just best practice, it's about professionalism!!!!
@@loungebiddle7922 closer to neutral. I believe I had looked into the pH of professional grade cleaners and most of them were around 7.0.
That was a GREAT TIP the problem was I Tempered the end many times but I mauled the center when the arbor did not fit-feeling stupid🤪,Thanks Again!!!
Glad it helped Amanda
Tho is great information!! Thanks for sharing 😂
Thanks for watching Joel
Another tip I haven't seen elsewhere. I have to use this pronto because the mainspring winder i had to use the winding arbor was a little too big but I had nothing else. Great work. Do you ever worry about taking the heat treat out of the mainspring?
What videos you working on? Whats on deck? Let us know maybe in one of your vids? As always many many thanks Alex.
Do you answer your question about taking the heat out of the main spring, that’s why I use the soldering iron because it localize’s the heat to just the coil. So there are a lot of things in the pipeline I’m writing a watchmaking course, I’m finishing a small book that I’m getting ready to publish, called the secrets to adjusting watch rates, i’m waiting for some parts to finish the video series on the 917 project, I’m getting ready to review the Chinese version of the Horia Jeweling tool, the biggest mistake people make when oiling jewels in a full service on a PT 5000 that’s running poorly where I’m going to use some of the techniques from the book on watch adjusting to dial it in.
@@watchrepairtutorials yes even with the iron I wondered if it would weaken even at the just the coil. A great tip yet again that makes me wonder why didn't I think of that? Look forward to your future projects.
How do you handle a replacement MS that is too small for the arbor? Great video BTW
If it’s only slightly smaller, then I can usually get it in, holding the arbor and the arbor vise.
If it’s noticeably much smaller, then I would make sure that it’s the right main spring and if it is you could use the same technique to open it up
This is a handy tip for sure. After heating the inner coil, do you need to reshape while the coil is still hot or can you first let it cool?
No you are just trying to temper it a bit to be able to shape it without breaking it. It just takes a second to cool down.
✨✨ Get Your Copy of my eBook, The Secrets for Adjusting Watch Rates ✨✨
➡➡PDF DOWNLOAD watchrepairtutorials.com/ebook/ ⬅⬅
➡➡Available on Kindle & Soft Cover @ geni.us/4x8C (Amazon)
✨✨Watchmaking Courses and Training ✨✨
➡➡ watchrepairtutorials.com/watchmaker-course/ ⬅⬅
Once again, big thanks for the sharing this priceless knowledge. One question - once you are done with forming the inner coil to the desired diameter for the arbor, do you need to reheat and dip in water the mainspring for hardening or it is not needed?
I think the least amount of modification to the mainspring with heat is best. One of the reasons that I use this tool is because I want to isolate the heat to as small area as possible. Since the heating process that manufacturers use for mainsprings is so proprietary there's no way you would know whether you were doing any good or more harm by adding more heat especially at a very high temperature.
@@watchrepairtutorials I got your point, thanks a lot
Thanks Alex, yes I’ve tried this a couple of times with some success, but without the heat. Took me ages and lots of patience (sounds like all watch making!). I will give the heat a go next time, I have a soldering iron. Would a normal cigarette lighter work? Also I’ve never worked with shallac, have you a video on that? Ta!
Try it and see? I did this video on shellac work. czcams.com/video/kMBJtJ8-Trk/video.html
Nice work. How do you keep the alcohol in your lamp from evaporating? Everytime I fill mine the alcohol is gone in just a few days.
I’ve never found a way. I usually just put enough in for what I’m working on.
How on earth did you know? I have even posted a request for how to do this on my forum. Using a soldering iron? Well, another thing to buy. But it would achieve what I need to do. Alex, Thank you again.
Because everyone runs into this issue when working on vintage watches
Big thanks for the excellent tips and demonstrations Alex. I’d never thought to use my soldering iron. I’m guessing the spring, being so thin, cools really quickly after you take away the heat. Does the steel stay soft enough to work without breaking only while it’s still hot, or is the steel pliable for longer? I guess what I’m really asking is - how long have you got to do the manipulation to the spring after you take it off the heat? Thanks again.
What you are attempting to do is temper the steel so it's not so brittle. Once tempered, it stays tempered.
You're not able to harden the steel again, so it's kind of a trade-off to being able to have a usable hairspring or not.
With that said, I've never had one break after installation.
Ah - I see - once tempered, it remains tempered. Thanks, Alex - I’m about to plug in my soldering iron!
Thanks! I have a blue steel mainspring for a Hamilton 987 watch movement. It's a NOS made by Hamilton. What do I look for in that case?
Hi Douglas,
I'm not sure what the question is.
@@watchrepairtutorials I wasn't clear. I was referring to the color change you mentioned as you heat the metal. My Hamilton NOS mainsprings come out of the package blued.
So, I thought with blue steel because it's already "blue" you won't see the straw color. Based your tutorial I realized I already I knew the temperature I needed, I have a smart soldiering iron (which you recommended, thanks!) so color shouldn't matter.
I just went ahead and followed your procedure and found that at 440 degrees the bluing goes away (so it was probably topical). I kept the heat on for a few minutes and then did what you recommended.
So far it has worked, I got a much better fit than I've ever gotten before. Only problem I had was shellacing the arbor to the bench block. The catch was too close to the block for the spring to attach. That may take practice. Thanks again. I'd like to subscribe to your tutorials but I don't remember how to do it. (I'm 73!)
@@douglasskinner no worries Douglas. If you go to any video you should see them subscribe button.
do you have a book for sale to how to service a watch? i need to buy one. iam new to watch service. thanks.
No but check out the website. I do include a written blog to go with the video.
Will tempering the coil cause weakening the mainspring? If not, can I use this method to restore the mainspring that is worn?
You can't restore mainsprings. If you do it the way I showed you, the only part of the mainspring that gets tempered is the inner coil. It has no effect on the rest f the mainspring.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks a lot!
Hi Alex, another great video. Thank you again for sharing all your tips and tricks.
I just installed a new MS in the barrel and found out the incircle is slightly bigger than the arbor and it didn't hook. And because I haven't seen this video before, I tried to reshape it cold and, guess what? I broke this brand new spring.
I just order another MS and I'm sure I'll run into the same issue. But now I know "What not to do" (4 valuable words in watch making that a wise man keeps telling us 😀).
Your video explains how to reshape a MS when it's uncoiled out of the barrel. Do have a method to reshape MS when it's already in the barrel? Or better yet, reshape it before putting in the barrel when it's still coiled in that ring that comes in when new? I don't want to take it out and uncoil it because I don't have a MS winder to put it back in.
P.S: My other hobby is electronics repair and I have a very professional soldering iron with precision temperature control and different tip sizes.
Thanks again for your help
Unfortunately no I don’t. This is a fix that tempers only the end of the inner coil. It’s not going to be a good idea to temper anymore than necessary.
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll use my engineering skill to build a toot to help reshape the MS while it is still coiled in that ring that comes in when new. @@watchrepairtutorials
I made this simple home made tool to help test if the inner coil of a brand new mainspring (while it's still in the ring) will fit in the arbor before inserting it into the barrel. and if it doesn't fit, you can reshape it by heating it.
I used a couple of aluminum washer I already had in my tool box, and that's why they have 2 extra holes that are not needed.
Aluminum is the idea material for this because it's softer than steal so it won't scratch the mainspring. Also the aluminum will help dissipated the heat from the other parts of the spring where you don't want to get heated.
In the video I use a soldering iron to heat up the inner coil but you could use other methods too.
Check out the video and let me know if you find any problem in using this tool. Suggestions to enhance are very welcome.
czcams.com/video/-bRaVlKCoSc/video.html
PS.: In the video I used a broken mainspring to test and get practice. I have not used in a new MS yet.
Maybe it was because the aluminum was dissipating the heat but I had to use a much higher temperature than the 227C you mentioned in your video.
@@franklima1269 you are going to just fine in watchmaking my friend. Love the mindset you have. Well done man. 👍
Thanks. It's because I have a great teacher 😉@@watchrepairtutorials
hopefully no further additions to my mainspring graveyard with this new knowledge!
That's the Goal right?
Hi, Alex I have a main spring that I need to fit to the arbor and want to use your soldering iron method. Question is, do you set the iron temp to the desired temperature or something higher. I thinking that the rest of the spring would act like a heat sink and constantly draw the heat away from the tip.
Don't overthink it. All you are trying to do is temper the metal so its not as brittle. It's the only way to bend it without breaking it. if you have a inner coil that is too large, it's the only option if you need a mainspring in the barrel.
Would you do this if it wasn't necessary, of course not.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks, Alex. Maybe I should be a bit more patient and leave it on the iron a bit longer. The only reason I asked was I'd set my iron to 220oC but the spring never changed colour and wasn't that hot to touch
Hi, Alex just to let you know my patience paid dividends and I managed to successfully reduce the spring to fit the arbor, before it was like a sausage in a train tunnel 😄
@@yesterdayschild1418 I am so happy you were able to get it figured out. Great job man.
@@watchrepairtutorials All thanks to you and your very informative videos. For a beginner, like myself, they are priceless 👍
is it possible to punch another hole on the inside of the MS?
Not really. This is more common in clock work. Your best option is replacement.
thank you@@watchrepairtutorials
Have you ever used the stepped round nose pliers? They have that variety of sizes plus a flat part to help forming any metal. Let me know your insights! As always, thank you for your videos and simple solutions to odd operations!
I just watched the video, then went to amazon and bought the soldering iron linked...but the stepped wire bending pliers as you suggest. Already have the conical ones shown, but these seem like they may be even easier.
I dont think there would be an advantage with the stepped style. Let me know how it works.
@@watchrepairtutorials I plan to give it a try. I am thinking that it may be easier to hold the coil straight so that my bends keep it flat as much as possible.
Alex....its about f***ing time. Lol🤗
Edit: thank you for putting in the time to make these videos!
Yea man, Been working on a couple project that are out of the way. Got some good one coming down the pipe.
@@watchrepairtutorials I know. I couldn't resist using the old moniker lol
@@bolgerguide You have been around for a while. Can you believe all this has turned into 10k subscribers?
@@watchrepairtutorials i find it amazing. You will prob have 200k subs by Christmas.
Edit: perfect channel name btw.
👍👍👍👍🎉
Are you not annealing the metal to make it softening toshape whereas tempering would make it harder.
Hello Dale, I think you may be getting your terms confused. In watchmaking there are two ways for hardening steel, work hardening and hardening by heat. Steel is heated to a high temperature, normally a bright red and then plunged into cold water or oil in order to cool it very rapidly. Steel that's hardened in this way is considered “Dead Hard”. The steel is at its hardest point but it's also extremely brittle which makes it pretty much useless for watch parts.
Tempering is a process where the steel is heated to a precise temperature and can either be quenched in water or allowed to cool in the air. This process makes the steel less brittle or softer and less likely to break. The main spring, because it's so thin it cools off almost immediately. The lower the temperature used for tempering, the less the softening effect or the harder the steel remains.
Annealing also has the effect of softening the metal and removing internal stresses. The main difference from tempering is that it's typically done with some sort of insulator so that the steel or brass cools down slowly.
@@watchrepairtutorials I'm often wrong, I like learning which is the reason I watch and have subscribed to your channel as well as a few others each has something to teach me. Marshall had a video in adjusting beat error, the first time I've seen it explained in a way that really made it clear to me and Adam Savage had a good video regarding machining and the effects of temperature and the fluidity of measurements.
@@dale4034 No worries Dale. Thanks for being part of the community here
There is a greusome reason why they say the steel is dead hard. In medievel times the steel was quenched in blood to harden it. Hence dead hard.
@@originalboondi interesting. Where can read more about this practice.
Its crazy that watchmaking is such a „tiny” hobby or even your work. But you are offen using big clamps or Clippers.
Good point!
That Looks Easy.....Not!!!...lol
It is pretty straightforward. Try it next time
Супер!!!!
LOL
i just murdered a fhf st 96 mainspring an two hours ago 😂
I feel your pains brother. Hopefully this will help you Chris