The Sin of Eve | With Matthieu Pageau
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- čas přidán 6. 10. 2022
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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Mathieu Pageau discuss humanities longing for a union between meaning and fact, exploring the idea of “stumbling blocks” and “foundation stones.” In other words, the outlying truths we discover that usurp and update our current understanding of the world. This concept is then applied to the biblical story of Adam and Eve.
Matthieu Pageau is a Canadian author, residing in Quebec. For two decades, he’s discussed religious philosophy and symbolism with his brother and icon carver Jonathan Pageau, a frequent guest on JBP's CZcams channel and podcast. These discussions were part of what motivated Matthieu to write his new book, The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism: A Commentary (amzn.to/3LVzkgj).
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Dr Peterson I would like to tell you something. I have bad anxiety. The cigs and dope didn't help .
I've stopped for over 3 weeks now .
I loose it sometimes over the slightest things. My 26 year old nephew . Sat me down
And we had a good talk. He watches your vids all the time.
He calmed me down using what he saw on your chanel . I'm ,69 years old . I thank you
For your vids . And thankyou for teaching my nephew .
He is an amazing young man.
Thankyou Dr.
👍👍👍💯💯💯😀😀😀🇦🇺🇦🇺
I appreciate starting right at the beginning. As someone who is going to watch the whole video no matter what it is nice to not have to skip the beginning to avoid watching the same part twice
A cup of tea and a conversation with this guy would be awesome
I am impressed with the unbelievable depth of your mind, buddy. Awesome.
@@lordjim3109 thank you.
I'd take a beer instead but yeah it would be awesome.
I agree with most of what is presented here and love the richness of the symbolism Matthieu brings out. But there's something bigger going on that wasn't discussed.
Saying, "This is a dog and that is a cat" as Adam did, is entirely different from saying "I like dogs and don't like cats." Distinguishing is not the same as placing value. Placing value is what eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is about.
So "...the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom." Two things go on in this passage: The woman saw the fruit. And the woman was pleased with it. It was desirable to her. But God warned about acting on these desires with a law lest they die. "Don't eat from that tree..."
James describes what happens next. ",,,each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own desire and enticed." (James 1:14)
It is THIS process that separates the two kingdoms (heaven and earth). One declared all of a diverse Creation to be "very good." (Gen. 2) The other has wildly differing opinions of that diversity (based upon what they like and don't like). As it should be. But now, how are the two camps to be reconciled? (Another discussion)
Mr Peterson, Thankyou for making the world feel that bit softer.
Thankyou for all your doing.
Love Australia
Thank you. Seeking wisdom.
Love One Another God Bless Everyone :)
“Why can Eve understand the snake?” Because the snake isn’t an ordinary snake, but Satan who merely chose to take that form? 🙄
The Snake in the Garden of Delight is a mysterious creature, and nobody knows where it comes from, and it has no origin story. It is often interpreted as The Satan, the opposition, as it interferes with the LORD's rule.
Awesome! Next step is to talk about the war in heaven just before the Genesis to really dig deep into the power of the creation !
He's a mystic.
Because he uses plenty of words you never use?
So was Jesus, and also Apostle Paul.
Here is a condensed expansion on the what the actual point was of what was written....
So, when it comes to original sin, it's sometimes referred to as the shame of original sin. The root of the word shame meant something along the lines or "to hide, or to cover up"... And so when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden, they were ashamed of their nakedness and tried to cover themselves... well, what were they covering? And so, if we think about the serpent as having tempted Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil.... well, we all have our family trees, and our seed, which are sperm, look like tiny little serpents... So, it could be interpreted a little differently than usual, in that, maybe it's trying to say that the possibility of being impregnated was an influence that tempted Eve to seduce Adam into giving her his seed, and that the knowledge of being able to inspire lust, gave Eve the power of her ego, to be able to have influence over Adam, and upset the balance between them.
It's the masculine that endows us with spirit. That's why it's God the Father. And it's the feminine that invites us to commune, and is represented by nature and the creative forces of growth, change, and evolution. That's why we call it Mother Earth. There's more, but I think this should get people thinking.
That was a amazing talk
Always love a good religious video comment section 😄
your 'good' refers to the video or the comment section?
I wonder how many "takes" we're tooken to make the interaction as meaningful as possible?
Animals live in a paradise because their perception of the optimal behavioral path is based on practical responses to instantaneous needs, which is easy. They do not think abstractly in time as we do. We suffer because our perception of the optimal behavioral path requires deciphering the complexity of the world and failing thousands of times in the attempt, and even then sometimes it is not enough because contexts change and there are things that are not possible to know (halting problem). In addition, there is a battle between the old system and the human system.
I think the fall of Eve has something to do with the affectionate curiosity that comes with feminine naivety.
🤨 wrong. You also believe children are born evil?
Jesus said of them, "...for of such is the kingdom of God." ~ Mark 10:14
wasn't only listening to nature... She was seeking to obey God's commandment to multiply and replenish the earth. She had to have knowledge to do that. Adam didn't have that knowledge. I believe she was also listening to her own soul in wanting children. As we can see when Rachel said, “Give me children, or else I die!”
@@stephtimms1776 Eve is an archetype, not a person. The end of genesis 3 speaks of flaming swords and cherubim guarding the tree of life, in exactly the same language. Its symbolic, and to interpret it otherwise will not support sanity.
@@stephtimms1776 so my point is then, what does the story tell us about femininity and what in that causes the fall?
@@EzioAuditoreDaFirenze99 And his father said to Bruce, “Why do we fall? So we can get back up again.” - Batman Begins
" In the absence of that which you are NOT, that which IS, is not " CWG Book 1
I could follw them right upto the apple?
What does the apple represent in their analogy and Eve's act of of taking it, or her persuading Adam to eat from it?
The Bible says she ate fruit, it does not say apple.
To me curiosity is the engine of human development and this is a positive
feature .
Nosyness , on the other hand , is
a negative trait and is often the
cause of trouble .
It can't come to life without eves reception
Read 'Sayings of Sri Ramakrishna'. The words in this book are direct from Source. I am giving the gift of truth. I am only able to give what is real. Thank you for your insights.
To enter paradise you must use the door.
Either Adam and Eve were innocent and God was a negligent parent leaving them unattended with something dangerous in paradise or these were two adults each making their own bad choices. Blaming Eve alone for the "fall of man" implies Adam had no responsibility for his own actions. Just because Eve made the bad choice first doesn't negate Adam's bad choice.
this is not what's implied at all, since Eve is part of Adam, literally. You can't separate them as God said: "You will be one flesh", and it means forever. So what is actually implied is that when Eve commits sin, Adam does too and vice-versa.
The story is way deeper. Try again.
Waaaaaaaaay deeper.
More study.
@@dedezindovrau Or you can read it as Adam being responsible for all of Eve’s sins, but *not* vice-versa. If you read it that way, you understand why all three Abrahamic religions evolved the notion that they had to “keep their women in check”.
Adam is supposed to protect and guard her. As the same way we are to guard our women. That's just one issue.
Absolutely fascinating conversation. A point that I bring up in conversations about Adam and Eve is they are given 2 commandments and the commandments conflict with each other. Gen 1:27-28 "...be fruitful and multiply..." and Gen 2:16-17 "...but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it..." These 2 commandments conflict with each other and force Adam and Eve to make a choice. I believe Eve was the more enlightened one and realized she and Adam must eat the fruit of the tree to gain the knowledge to multiply. I do not believe Eve was "beguiled" by the serpent but that she made a deliberate decision for the beginning of man kind. If I am looking at this incorrectly or missing something please feel free to relate your view.
I think that if she didn't take the apple, the commandments wouldn't be contradictory. They could be fruitful and innocent at the same time. I see it as an end of innocence when they ate. They knew right from wrong because the ate of the fruit.
They knew how to multiply, they just did not know whether it was good or was evil (hence why when they ate of the fruit of the tree they covered themselves). They lacked the discernment to do so before eating the fruit.
@@WordOfYah How could they know how to multiply if they didn't have *knowledge* of good nor evil, as the Holy Bible says? They didn't even know they were naked.
@@stephtimms1776 Well the belief is that everything started out perfectly ordered so it’s not about how did they know and more about they didn’t have to know because they didn’t know… if that makes sense 😂
I don’t think it was about more enlightened, I think Eve’s position is actually more like Oppenheimer. The scientist that stumbles into something not realizing what they stumbled into. She presents a problem Adam isn’t aware of, but she doesn’t have a solution for it.
This isn't how Jesus, His apostles or any of the prophets interpreted Genesis. This is leaven. I enjoy many of Peterson's interpretations on general revelation but not special revelation.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil in the sound just means The tree of awareness of spiritual and material hence the energy in words like good being or evil world /spiritual being and material world this two being are not even students let alone teachable but many life spans might allow them to be aware of the self/ego mis(sin) GUIDED
“All that abstraction still has to serve life.” Why? Because Eve wants it?
The bible was important to history not for it's narrative, but for it's capacity to keep reading and writing in practice. Reading and writing today might not be around today if not for religious texts.
The story of Adam & Eve is metaphorical to illiterate how the vices are born through the consciousness of the body, the illusion of the self (the body), and how sin is the expression or the consequence of that illusion. It's a story how Body Consciousness (the fall) defeats Soul Consciousness (virtues). The first vice is Ego (false knowledge) This is the false recognition of humans as male or female as oppose to a "soul" who we truly are. This was the first mistake human beings made, so we became body conscious (sinful) and all other vices took birth from that first vice of Ego.
'ne'er had the apple taken been / the apple taken been / nay had never our lady / been heavenly queen / blessed be the time / that apple taken was / therefore we bound singen / deo gracias, deo gracias!'
Adam and Eve were spiritually immature, with immaturity comes nievity and desire to bridge that gap. The fruit wasn't evil in itself, God makes everything Good until mankind twist the Good to different degrees of evil.
I've sung to possum hugged trees made bonds with ferals and cried for the moon. Some say I reached for the secret too soon.
Shine ON, you crazy diamond!
The snake is the ego. Eating the fruit means allowing your concept of right and wrong to get under your skin. Attachment is the Eating part and judgment is the fruit produced by the knowledge of good and evil, the Tree's namesake. Forgiveness is spitting the fruit up and Grace is leaving it on the Tree, reserving judgement or at least our attachment to it.
There is one Tree of Life in the center of the Garden of Delight, and it is God's tree: To eat of this is to receive God's blessings, provisions, and anything you need. There is another tree, the false Tree of Life, that is the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, and to eat of its fruit, means sin enters you, and it becomes part of you. Worshiping idols, and kings who declare themselves gods, are false Trees of Life (they can look good on appearances), and to partake of this fruit is to enter sin and its wages. Jesus Christ is the new Tree of Life, as the Firstborn of the Dead, and he offers you to become part of it: Christ is the vine, so that you are not ever separated from God's blessings.
Dr, please utilize the King James Bible
What is a choice? Free will
Free will make you choose bad
Not a mention of sin, odd considering the title.
Zijn er ook nog Nederlanders in de comments? :) Ben benieuwd wat jullie van deze video vinden.
Nein
@@SentMyOwnWay Schade
I have always enjoyed thinking of the story of Adam-and-Eve as a political metaphor where Eve is essentially the newcomer and has yet to understand how it is that she has been voted into incompetence. Followed by the Defenestration of seats and faculty.
God gave humans all the raw material to work with to make a heaven out of earth
Oh my! Finally someone is close. Eve lied to the serpent by adding words to God's command. She said don't touch it. They could have played baseball with a branch. But eve was lying and then came the attack.
As God says in the end don't add to or take away from the Word of God.
Then we see Adam doing the same thing Jesus did on the cross and that is dying for his bride and he loved her and ate of the tree not leaving her . Jesus also would do the very same thing.
Why don't readers of the bible not get this?
I guess I too didn't get it fully till I was 51 yo. I'm 52 today. I'm Still learning
Dont brag about the little you know, but thank you for sharing it.
Isn't it funny that a book supposed to be understood by all is understood by none 2000 years later?
@@adamgates1142 funny is that anyone would claim to understand it, the experiences of life only gives us a glinch of the greatness of it throught the Holy Spirit.
@@enriquebaez504 Were the words of God not intended to be understood?
@@adamgates1142 of course they are to be understood as experiences show me the reality of the words and it's power. But the more you read it the bigger the depth in them, while sinless the more the understanding.
Its like digging for gold, at the surface a few nuggets yet the more digging and work the more, how much do you want the gold? Are you happy with understanding the surface? Or are you willing to suffer to go as deep as time allowes you?
Angels with free will turned evil.
A man would probably be sleeping under the tree if it wasn't for a woman that wants a happy home.
Ok let's cut down this trees and start building
No. A man would build a hut just because it is possible. How many inventors and scientists dedicate themselves solely to their discoveries, and actually *neglect* their family for that?
"EVE" ( Hebrew = "Havah" = "Life" ).....was the "Spirit" that was "breathed" into man (adam)
to make man a "living soul" .......Genesis 2 : 7 .
There was no "woman" or female man (man with a womb) until the Spirit (Eve) was removed from man
to form the female aspect of man .
When God did this, man (adam) "fell" in consciousness......he was put into a "deep sleep" ( Genesis 2:21 )
The "serpent" was adam's "carnal mind" that was left ......as pictured by "the woman" .
"And the man said, " The woman you gave me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate it ." ( Genesis 3:12 )
" For Adam was not deceived, but "the woman" being deceived "fell" into transgression ." ( 1 Timothy 2:14 )
There was no conversation between a "snake" and a "naked woman".
This is all allegory and metaphor.......as ALL the scriptures are written .
Adam (mankind) was deceived by his own "carnal mind"......and to this day .
"That old serpent, called the devil and Satan (man's own carnal mind) that DECEIVES the whole world."
( Revelation 12:9 )
And… what was the sin of Eve now? 🙄 Everything I heard here suggests her having taken the fruit from the tree of knowledge was a good thing. It’s almost as if to claim otherwise were irreconcilable with the scientific spirit.
It's a good thing... in the end.
I think Eve wasn’t wrong to eat the fruit but Adam when he found out she ate the fruit may have born the first feelings of contention or lack of love that they had so abundantly in the garden among God. So the first time love wasn’t pure and complete they left the garden and us conscious humans have never found that again. Through the repeats of history we have been distracted from that Pure Love that existed in the garden. Jesus taught the new commandment to Love God and love your neighbour.. pure love is what we’ve been missing. We will get there again. Be kind out there, get your heart and mind on this pure love! Treat yourself and others with it. 🤍
What is love ? What is pure love ?
Give me a break.
Never.
Not till JESUS comes back and creates a new Heaven and Earth.😮
The sins of Eve ? In terms of Original Sin there was no sin. Original Sin consisted of disobeying God. Or else eating apples would be sinful. This is the reason Christian’s pray before eating.
I think the sin of Eve, without reading the Bible or anything, has to do with the feminine spirit tempting Adam.
Allow me to elaborate. I’m talking the archery definition of sin here as a way to miss the bullseye.
So as far as I understand it. Animals, plants, trees, fish, insects living things essentially, they reproduce of their own accord. Nobody has to tell them to do so is what I’m saying. They’re born, live, grow, develop, reach sexual maturity and its off to the races.
Humans however, they sometimes have to be told to do so, as if it just didn’t occur to them that that’s what you’re supposed to do.
So my question here is something along the lines of, “Why does Eve feel the need to seduce Adam?”
Was Adam still a boy and not quite there yet in his maturity to be able to acknowledge the fertile woman in his midst?
Was Eve perhaps yearning for her fathers love but not quite knowing what it was she was after, so she convinced the closest guy to shag? Maybe she knew she just wasn’t quite as feminine as she should be and felt the need to offer a bit of a reward?
Lot’s of questions arise when point and you ask “But why tho?” However what we CAN ALL SAY is that Eve kind of baited Adam. She seduced him. She put on a bit of a show. Whatever you wish to call it. 👉There is a thing happening there we can all see👈
Then you ask yourself why does anybody do anything? You’re just going to have to trust me on this one but I would argue that it’s because they felt the need to.
Now if you’re still following regardless of what you think or believe we agree that 1. There was a thing that happened between Adam and Eve and it was very much intentional on Eve’s part and 2. That Eve felt the need/felt like she had to do that.
Then quite naturally you go over to Eve and you ask her, “So ummm what made you feel like you had to do that?”
And she’d probably say something low resolution like “Because I had too!” And cross her arms, flare her hip to one side and look at you funny.
She may or may not try to attack you at this point.
If she doesn’t you’d throw both hands in the air and say something like “Woah woah woah, jeez I’m just asking that’s all. Not trying to attack you or anything far out Brussel sprout.” If she does attack you, you say “Ouch” and slowly do ^that^
Then she’d probably relax her balance, raise her chin across to the heavens and look at you from the corner of her eyes. Her arms would still be crossed.
Then you say something like “I’m just trying to understand you that’s all?”
Then I’m not quite sure what happens after since I never got that far, so if anyone gets that far please let us all know.
So Eve was perfect yet decieved. Gen 3:13 fact
Adam was not deceived. 1Tim. 2:14 fact.
They were perfect our first parents, yet their selfishness destroyed them. Now we their imperfect childrencan prove Satan wrong. You think about that! Profound.
Their selfishness? How? They were commanded to have children and had to find a way to do that. The only way was to get knowledge... and there stood the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They had to prioritize *for us* they had to take risks *for us*
I don't believe in original sin. I believe Adam & Eve were married.
You have two guys expressing their belief in god here, and clearly do not believe the Word of God.
Even in the expression of understanding the Hebrew language, they miss the whole point and intent of what that scripture is saying.
“How can a snake talk?” “How can Eve understand the snake?”
Because the Nahash, in Hebrew, is the Serpent, the Devil, the Satan. That is how he could talk and how she could understand him.
You miss the whole point of the deception, fall, sin, and are not grieved by it for yourself.
There was no such thing as sin in the Garden of Eden. There was only Gods word. Sin is what came after eating the forbidden fruit. You might say the sin is not eating the apple.
You might ask yourself what could have Satan said to Eve to make her eat it. Maybe Satan told Eve to not eat the apple as God commanded. We will never know what the impetus was to make Eve eat the apple since when asked Eve blamed Satan for her actions.
what about the sin of grift
yeah, none of that here, you are just parroting others.
Before watching.. the first sin of Eve was not eating the forbidden fruit, it was lying to the serpent.
She lied to the serpent about what God had told her about eating the fruit..
Her lie to the serpent, was her giving herself permission to eat the fruit..
WTF
@@korawega6293 wtf what?
What I said is true.. she told the serpent that God told her things about the fruit that God did not tell her.. she lied to the serpent, before she ate the fruit.
The first sin wasn't Eve eating the fruit.. it was Eve lying to the serpent.
🤡👏👏👏
Oh my! Finally someone is close. Eve lied to the serpent by adding words to God's command. She said don't touch it. They could have played baseball with a branch. But eve was lying and then came the attack.
As God says in the end don't add to or take away from the Word of God.
Then we see Adam doing the same thing Jesus did on the cross and that is dying for his bride and he loved her and ate of the tree not leaving her . Jesus also would do the very same thing.
Why don't readers of the bible not get this?
I guess I too didn't get it fully till I was 51 yo. I'm 52 today. I'm Still learning.
We don’t know per scripture in Genesis if God told Eve anything about the ”tree.” God told Adam, before Eve was created. Maybe Adam miscommunicated to Eve what God said. Maybe Adam added to God’s word. Or, who planted the thought into Eve not to even touch the tree?
14:21 Here starts a laughable stream of non-stop confirmation bias from Matthieu. 😂 Jordan had to quickly follow it up (and cover it up) with some usual word salad, so that nobody notices the absurdity. What “tradition” is Adam even supposed to preserve if he’s allegedly the very first man who ever lived?
"😂"
FIRST
Fourth
Third
Second
Maybe Eve was talking to the animals because in the seed of her design is a nurturing mother?
How come Adam just walked around pointing and naming? With that comes a tendency to objectify possibly?
This is my second time listening to you both. You both never mentioned God's role in this entire thing. I think you're both heretics at the end of the day like the rest of us.
you know nothing about religion 🙂
PAGEAU NEEDS TO MENTION LILITH , THEN THE FIRST EVE , THEN THE SECOND EVE ! DO BETTER RESEARCH ABOUT THIS EVE THING , AS WITHOUT EVE MEN WOULD STILL BE COUNTING AND NAMING THINGS AND STAYING A FOOL IN THAT GARDED OF GOOD AND EVIL ! LILITH WOULD NOT AGREE!
You're completely insane, Jordy Boy. You didn't cross the line of sanity to get where you are. You're insane and you've always been there.