Interpreting the Hidden Meaning of the Bible | Matthieu Pageau EP 15
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- This episode was recorded on May 31st, 2022.
In this episode, Tammy welcomes Mattieu Pageau to discus his interpretations of the Bible. Mattieu is the brother of Jonathan Pageau, a frequent guest on Tammy’s channel. Tammy and Mattieu delve deep into the hidden meaning of the ancient scriptures.
Matthieu Pageau wrote The Language of Creation in 2018, which is an attempt to interpret the Bible by rediscovering its ancient cosmology. He has been independently studying biblical Hebrew since the age of 16 and eventually continued within the department of religious studies at McGill University, where he majored in Mathematics and Computer Science.
Mattieu’s book, The Language of Creation:
www.amazon.com/Language-Creat...
Connect with me:
Instagram: / tammy.m.peterson
Faceboook: / mrstammympeterson
- Chapters -
[00:00] - Intro
[02:51] - Introduction to Mattieu Pageau
[05:50] - Mattieu's future writing plans
[07:37] - The Bible isn’t about morality
[13:56] - Learning from historical stories
[21:13] - Mattieu’s interpretation of the Bible
[26:20] - Tammy’s experience in the hospital
[29:06] - The experience of losing control
[31:36] - Discovering meaning at a young age
[34:56] - The current climate of our secular society
[36:24] - Understanding the simple truths over the complexities
[38:21] - The removal of sin from society
[41:57] - The importance of taking care of your needs
[45:48] - We often do not know what we want
[49:50] - The meaning of unleavened bread
[56:44] - The symbolic meaning of the sacrifice of an animal
So freaking excited to see Mathieu giving these interviews as of late.
His interview with Dr. Peterson was so good.
I am very so much happy he is talking about it .... he is a person God choose to do this....
Hello does anyone here believe in Jesus?
@@connorlancaster7541 speaking for myself here but HECK YEAH
@@connorlancaster7541 Jesus is The Truth. Nothing is truer than the words of Jesus. Nothing is truer than Jesus himself, who is also The Word. You better believe in him and everything he says.
Hopefully Matthieu continues talking to people. We been trying to get this guy to speak again for like 6 years now
Hello do you believe in Jesus?
Looks like he went back to his wizard cave again. Maaaan!
❤❤❤
Oh what a delight. Matthieu is turning into such a social butterfly. So good to see you, Tammy, I hope you and Dr. Peterson are both well.
Hello do you believe in Jesus?
@@connorlancaster7541 3:30 who did he say he read ?
@@londonbowcat1Rene Guenon
The Pageau brothers have the most winsome smiles 🙂
First Jordan, now this? What a treat. Thank you for the engaging discussion. Glad to see Matthieu healthy and sharp.
Hello do you believe in Jesus?
@@connorlancaster7541 isn’t that between Derek and Jesus? I find myself wondering why you’re asking…
…everyone.
@@stvbrsn Jesus says to preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 15:16). Are you an atheist?
@@connorlancaster7541 not likely you will bring people to God through a comment box
@@connorlancaster7541 although it is a very noble effort!
Love the way Tammy is so natural.Seeing someone like this is so refreshing.
The author MP mentioned is Renee Geneon
Thank you! I replayed it several times and thought the first name was Lenny.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Guénon
I wish he would write a book on symbolism for children-lol then maybe I can start to understand it before tackling his book 👏
There’s a lot packed into that line.
His book is actually really clear and simple. I bet you'd be able to handle it very well, Palmtree ❤️
Hi, Tammy!! Your voice is so calming. Thank you for starting your own podcast!
P.S. I’m muslim but I’ve started wearing a rosary for you ♥️
May the Holy Lady the blessed virgin of the rosary keep you and guide you
Oh that’s so sweet!
Hello does anyone here believe in Jesus?
@@connorlancaster7541 Yes!
@@connorlancaster7541 yes ! Pray to Him humbly ask Him to reveal Himself to you
I was one of those who left the church and got far away from my belief only to wake up during COVID. I saw departing from God’s ways that something tyrannical was taking its place and taking control of our lives. That shook me out of my sleep and brought me back into a deeper meaningful relationship with God. I eventually came across podcasts like this, Jordon Peterson, Jonathan Pegeau and many others on his podcast that slowly reeled me back in. Today I’m finding a different and more meaningful way of the importance of understanding Biblical stories than when growing up in a church.
This conversation is a gift to me. It illuminates a lot of ideas that I haven't been able to reconcile or that I have been neglecting because I couldn't make sense of them. Thank you for reminding me to focus on the importance of the circumstances rather than my own understanding of them.
I understand Mattieu's approach to speaking. Words carry a very heavy consequence. Wisdom is knowing when not to speak. We are literally judged by our words and deeds. Let us be cautious. 🙏
Thank you so much for your videos. I started reading Matthew's book recently and so this is talk is really helpful for me to understand it on a deeper level. There is so much important information to be found in the "four horsemen" and Pastor Paul's work. I've been thinking lately it would be nice to have more women involved in this corner of the internet. You're really the only one I've found so far and I really appreciate what you've been giving us . Keep going with it!
Check out The Meaning Code with Karen Wong. There are many fascinating interviews there, including one with Tammy Peterson and several with John Verwaeke.
Sevilla King also has an interesting CZcams presence on her channel A Quality Existence, in which she presents Pirsig’s worldview in his books, notably, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
Miss Tammy u are precious.. this is what the Bible says
2 Corinthians 12:9-10 NIV
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Love these Tammy. God Bless your family. Matt is such a great thinker, him and John are powerhouses. Thank you again.
Beautiful. I hope Matthieu keeps being a guest and eventually opens his own channel. His strange ideas are wonderful
I love that I found this!! I am a person of faith also, and really appreciate Tammy's sharing with us her experience with "near death" and how it relates to acknowledgment that God is always in control.
I am deep diving on Tammy Peterson, it's really helping me and my relationship, more than therapy or medication or other professionals here on CZcams. Shes making a difference for me. Thank you. I'm off all medication, I've been meditating and microdosing one week a month. She's the mentor I've never had before. Such a blessing to my family.
Part that struck me the most was when Matthieu said some thing along the lines of "it's not about understanding the meaning of story but rather about understanding the importance of the story...that is wisdom". Wow. Thank you. I was listening to this while calibrating hydrophones :D
This is the first time I've listened to one of Tammy's podcasts and I love it! She is deep and intellectual! This is a great conversation that I bet I will listen to more than once!
Oh I can’t wait to watch this!!
I loved this interview! So interesting! Thank you Tammy!
Every time I hear Matthieu's book described, all I can think about is Beetleguise, where the "handbook for the recently deceased" get repetedly described with "its like reading stereo instructions!"
i was looking for videos of him everhwere after his jp podcast. i watched the ones with his brother, but his understanding now compared to years ago is much sharper. He really is a very good voice and needs to do more interviews. Thank you Matthieu, thank you tammy
Hi Tammy ! You are such a pleasant presence ! I find the subjects you speak about of great interest. Thank you both !
Love you both! I read the book and still am scratching my head (in a good way)💞
Really enjoyed this conversation and the questions yielded a relaxed conversation on the importance of thinking about the "simple/basic" questions. Thank you for getting Matthieu on your podcast, I was curious how the two of you will negotiate the space and ideas together. It was great!
I love it! Thank you!!
Such a gracious lady you are!
Tammy is so wildly relatable. Great.
I start my garden seeds indoors each Feb/March when the long, gray New England winters become too much to bear. And I dont think much about the food that the plants will or will not produce at that time, so I dont say that I am planting seeds. I say that I am planting hope -- hope for the future. And thats what a child is -- a blessing, a miracle...hope for the future. 💖🙏🏼🤗
P.S. My grandmother used to use the expression "plant a seed" when she was trying to introduce a new idea to my grandfather or loved one. She was a patient woman who gave people time to think & come to their own understanding of things in their own way. Glad youre doing better, Ms. Tammy! 🙏🏼
Wishing you all many blessings.
Great episode!
Years ago I was hit by an epiphany, a flash of insight.
What insight was that?
@@davidmurray6429 Not easy to explain. I first had to learn something first, in order to gain the insight. In a convoluted way.
As part of my job I had to learn about the 12 steps of AA. Later in a discussion with my girlfriend at the time we were reading passages from the bible.
It struck me that there were instructions in the bible on how to stay healthy and what precautions people needed to take to protect from food posioning etc.
thanks for the upload Tammy, i am still wrapping my head around Jonathan and Matthews interpretation and or thoughts on the bible and symbolism, its a very different approach to reading the text.
Excellent discussion. Gracias Señora Peterson
The discussion about sacrifice is particularly fascinating and it made me realize some things that I was not aware before. It's mind blowing how things tie into each other and come together in the bible. And I think that the flesh aspect of sacrifice is indeed not at all hard to understand and it goes back to a intuition I always had. Our body is in fact the link and union between heaven and earth. The earth is the material part, the stuff, the potential and heaven is form, it's the pattern, the intelligent aspect, logos. Intelligence incarnate. Once you see it it's very obvious and I think also undeniable. And I think that now I see where people make mistakes when saying that we are only spirit or only body. They're leaving out the other part. It's beautiful how in reality everything is actually balanced out symmetrically. There's nothing left out.
Thanks Matthieu and Tammy!
Oh my goodness!!! Mrs. Tammy I didn't know you started a podcast!!! Oh I am so excited!
Omg!! I wasn't expecting this!! I wouldn't have in a million years!
Although I’m delighted to see Matthieu doing more, I kinda feel like when a secret restaurant you love gets discovered
Similar to Dylan's "You gotta serve somebody", I've been meditating lately on the apparent fact that whenever I'm conscious, I am possessed by someone/something. I do have free will, but that free will is primarily the will to serve who I'm going to be subservient to and possessed by. Hopefully each day I am surrendering more and more to be possessed by (that is, to be a more dedicated possession of) God and less and less to anyone/anything else.
"When you look at the past with their own perspective at that epoch it leaves a totally different perspective." Brilliant!
Light but meaty convo, lovely to listen to
Well you put a perfect bow on that! Now that we have Matthieu, so much is made clear
Such a wonderful conversation. Matthieu is so very intelligent, but also somewhat difficult for me to understand. Mrs. Peterson, you were such a help by sorting thru and explaining in laymens terms. Thank you for this exchange.
Alright, more Matthew!
God bless your family Tammy!
I love your content. All of you Petersons are just wonderful.
Thank you. This was encouraging.
Thank you Tammy. Wow! Matthieu Pageau! I have his book.
This is good. keep up the good work.
Brilliant! Thank you xx
The Book of Mormon has many insights that add clarity to some of these things. Like this one about the Heaven and Earth duality: “And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.” (2 Nephi 2:14) This to me is just one more evidence of many that the Book of Mormon is an ancient book, one that was written with the intent of being another testament of Jesus Christ and of confirming what the Bible teaches about him.
Just realized the four horsemen of meaning have crystallized: Jordan Peterson, John Vervake, Jonathan Pageau, Matthieu Pageau. We've heard conversations between many subsets (especially of size 2) of these 4, but I think a conversation with all 4 at once would be lightning in a bottle. Without Matthieu in the picture, the more reserved and quiet Pageau voice wasn't heard as loudly as the others; his addition should balance the 3 voices perfectly.
I would replace Vervake with Bishop Barron
Wonderful
Great video
You learn exponentially more lessons in failure than with successes. This is why failures are highlighted in the Bible, and why these stories had it into the book after the Councils of Nicaea.
I do appreciate your outlook Mr. Pageau
Pageau needs to be in a space that records voice w/o too much echo. Interview is hard to listen to due to voice quality.
I have some tips that God likes that work all the time.. He likes for u to pray fir people who have done anything agaisnt u, he likes u to ask him to soften their hearts.. he especially likes for u to ask him to BLESS people too.. and if there’s something u really want and for the good u can bargain w him by giving up something u like to do.. I got my lost dog back within 8 hours and had been looking for a her for a month..
I am reading the book. I find it fascinating! It is very simple in a way...
Matthieu's view of the Bible is do profound. He sees it as laying out how the world works. It also describes all the ways in which we try to make sense of the world and fail.
so, And its not excluding other "narratives"/ truths,. As bible is in many levels. Jordan is faithful in the psychological view. He says he knows that bible is true in that sense, and is not arguing that its not true in any else way. Its just his speciality.
The point about not knowing what we really want (or at least what would be ultimately good for us) is quite salient. For example, I have a bachelor's degree in biotechnology, but I have never once had a job in a lab; I graduated, thought "glad that's over", and went back to writing software. Within the software career, I have had many experiences where the ultimate end was nothing like what was anticipated at the outset, so the pattern is fractal.
Matthieu is so patient and good listener too. I wish he could have touched more in depth on those topics
Very interesting correlation of the passing of time into the leaven bread, adding no substance, only adding air and consuming our most valuable asset, time. Over my years of Bible Study I've come to understand the "puffing up" in life is sin. Self seeking worldly nature is adding no substance to what matters. Adding leaven to the bread is symbolic to the self seeking sin of this earthly nature... Thank you Mrs. Peterson for being a part of the conversation. Please give the Good Doctor my Best Regards PVVP
Puffing up is “Pride” that’s a good idea. Dr P says good point!
Thanks for the reply. So enjoy all of the informative and meaningful content. FYI I'm inspired to write my stories from a 57 years young "PK's" perspective. lots to say... I am formalizing my 3-5 year plan to write then publish...foolishly failing forward... trying to develop myself by using all of the tools Dr.P has shared to accomplish each step. Grateful for the encouragement
Tammy... Ohh la la. Looking good! 👍
We need to donate for a tapestry and fern, ambiance for Mattieu ❤
Awesome! I think Matthieu can check Fr. Don Calloway probably nice to have discussion about Joseph, he made a deep dive research about St. Joseph and check Joseph the dreamer at the same time. Hope their paths meet in this topic, I think Matthieu's work is something to look forward to.
Once again on the second part when we start mentioning finding solutions to the problems that have plagued us for generations, Tammy abstracts into an outside view of time. You slip into external abstractions to view the world, which is very interesting because there is a deep wisdom there. Its much how God sees the world. God sees the world as one constant with no past present or future. Much like Ecclesiastes. So yes we face problems now that were ultimately the same problem of temptation that eve faced in the garden. Temptation with pride as its prophet.
Just finished Matthieu's interview with papa Peterson, now I'm onto momma Peterson. Interesting to hear the perspective of Adam and of Eve one after the other.
Officially seen every combination of Perterson+Pageau. Nothing better. What are the chances of us getting the 4 of you together for a conversation, Tammy?? 😄 Heck, Mikhaila too....
At 17:10
Symbolism (in (h)Our own words)
- literal / illustrative
- words of a boat, ark, ship, flood, promise/drawn as a boat, covenant, catastrophe contingency
- parallel symbolism : remove too much air/water = flood. Remove too much water = burnings
- ark + flood : the (interplay) promise and those promised to, no more flooding’ + stripping away (aside from Noah and company) destructive human aspects
- The Spirit: the Dove “signal that” it’s now okay to start really living again
_________________
+ (the whole thing)
_________________
= A Message (from a messenger)
A Tupperware container, it not food, but sometimes; Tupperware is used to preserve food 🔽🔼
May God bless u Dr Tammy.. I think u wanna save everyone too, even your enemies if that’s possible..I would think there wouldn’t b anyone out there that wouldn’t like u..❤
thank you
The thing about the Bible is one can interpret in so many ways, which explains the diversity of Christian thought.
At 8:48
Mrs. Tammy Peterson:
“that’s the passage of time” she said. Communicating that to the audience, and then representing that in like, with a personally story, and then it manifest here on CZcams as a participatory dimension. And so, in (h)Our own words:
🔺
the stars
(representers & communicators)
tell us time
🔻
not the clocks
At 9:21 🤔 “it’s not it’s own thing…”
• not it’s own…(what exactly)…
• not it’s own; ownership?
•
🔺
who claims ownership?
• is it the parents?
• but then….
🔻
who “owns” the parents?
⏳
you know something funny story:
…a couple years ago, i could hardly do 2 push-ups. And today i could do much more than that; i own that.
⌛️
but… a couple years ago…i literally could ‘not own the phrase
“i could do much more than 2 push-ups”
🔻🔺, ♾, 🧬
For the imagery of Mary standing on a serpent. I'd suggest something along the lines of "having put her attention toward the snake, she was able then able to ascend into her proper place"
What Matthieu said about the flood...this illustrates the "law" of correspondence throughout the Bible. God responds according to, and in reflection of, what people do. God's response is "according to its kind" (This can be more easily seen in the most literal translations.)
He's so lucid. A refreshing voice to hear on this topic. And simultaneously it's clearly deep and rooted. But I do have this small question, for anyone who wants to think about it, if I can articulate it: He talks about the idea that heaven is in some sense meaning, and earth potential; but I think we can also switch up these interpretations, in that we are in a sense rooted with our feet in the rock of the earth, and heaven provides potential for growth and development. So in that sense earth would be more connotated with stable depth of meaning, and heaven with potential and change. Does this make sense?
You may want to look into Alexander Dugin's work. He talks about "interpretive horizons" that exist within cultures. He talks explicitly about an earth centered world view (the logos of cybele) and contrasts it with the heaven centered world view (logos of apollo). What you are suggesting reminds me of this.
@@ASH-xk4ci Aye thanks! :)
I'm thinking a "The View" style set, with a new wardrobe and everything.
A show centered around Tammy talking with her friends. The major difference being, your view is something people care to hear.
So, if I get this right, animal sacrifice being about a new creation is as follows:
- You take the best aspect of the old world
- You use the blood/water to return the world to its original state
- You build up this new world using the (best) flesh of the old
So its basically a symbol of re-creation.
You scratch upon some very elemental, however eye-opening ideas tosses out here...specifically, 48:15 "listening to ur nature, paying attention, in order to untangle what one wants" .....two ears, one mouth. I hope many get a chance to hear this.
I learned after my mom died, her health ruined by smoking. Her smoking was, in her mind, taking care of herself. It was detrimental, but not as much as the anguish of not smoking. So she was acting in a way that missed the mark because she could not bear the sacrifice of suffering MORE by quitting. Just thinking along the lines of how we care for ourselves but how it can still be a detriment…
It's so weird , I just learned that Jonathan had a brother Matthieu , they sound so much alike lol. Pleasant surprise indeed
The bible isn’t about MOR-ALITY its about RE-ALITY
That's amore
And Redemption ❤️
And Relationship 😊
Please can someone tell me the name
of the author Matthieu recommends at 3.50 regarding symbolism? Thanks
losing life. you know, i lost a cousin a few years ago and it was only recently that it really sunk in. that i really thought about it, that the loss really effected me. But it came hand in hand with my search for god. The closer I come to god the more i feel things. The problem is pride. Peoples hearts and minds are waxed dry, their pride is powerful and overwhelming. Pride is like an addiction on the mind. Until we begin to fight against it, you will notice even as a child that everyone seems to be cut off, cold, and self interested.
What’s cool is the people who survive the tribulation reign w Jesus in their mortal bodies on earth for 1,000 years.. I’m gettin goosebumps..
God knows human abilities and sent the books to be simply understood. It’s clear and direct.
Matthieu certainly understands James' warning that teachers shall be held accountable for what they teach.
I listen to Jordan when I need a kick in the ass, and Tammy when I need to reconnect with my faith 😊.
What’s the name of the author and the book he used to learn about symbolism? I can’t understand his name just from hear him. Please help me with that piece of information
Great discussion, Thank you. As you ended with the concept of heaven coming down and earth going up, the image of the Star of David came to mind. Two triangles one pointing up and the other down and converging forming a hexagon. Have either of you examined the symbolism in this image? Do you think the hexagon at the center (6 being the number of man) is significant?
Choosing the wrong path is something I did for over a decade
Perhaps sacrificing the material to the spiritual both orients you towards the higher, and serves as a demonstration that you value the higher more than the lower. Perhaps that it also why sacrifice is also equated with worship.
OMG ECCLESIASTES IS MY FAV BOOK..
Time is circular - but is it not a gift to draw us closer to God? To learn, to grow? It's a chance for us like plants the sower has sown to come closer to the light of God's Word.
It's all good.
Tammy looks exactly like my sister, I wish I could show a picture of her. It is truly uncanny. I often can't get passed it enough to actually listen to her. I wonder if Tammy is native american too.. seems to be and her gentle voice is native also. I can't believe how much they look alike 😳
The part where they’re discussing sacrifice made me think of baptism. The water cleans and makes way for a new creation and then we are born by the spirit/United with the Gods purpose within our bodies (edit- we have to be born of water and spirit). Baptism is like a sacrifice of our bodies to join with God’s kingdom, just as the ancient people saw the sacrifice of animals as giving body/material to God. In this case the material for God is us.
And there he goes at 1:05!! Boom
Anybody catch the symbolic author influence he mentions at the beginning?
What is the name of the author Matthieu mentioned at very early part of the video? Thank you?
😊
i was wondering the same thing