20W-50 vs 5W-20: Which Oil Protects Better?
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Which viscosity provides the best protection - a 20W-50 or a 5W-20? Which one delivers the lowest friction? Since friction and wear are independent of each other, we need a special engine equipped with combustion analysis to separate engine friction from the horsepower created by combustion. To measure wear, we need used oil samples of both oils to measure the wear generated in the engine during start-up cycles and full power runs. To isolate just the effect of viscosity, we choose two oils that have the exact same additive package and base oil types. This way, the only variable is the viscosity.
While we had the engine on the dyno, we also tested the impact of pre-filling (or not pre-filling) the oil filter on engine wear, and that produced an unexpected result!
For more about Oil Analysis, check out: www.speediagnostix.com
For more information about EFI University, check out: www.efi101.com
Here are links to the products used in the video:
GP-1 20W-50 amzn.to/3VsZc9J
GP-1 5W-20 amzn.to/3yOzC6q
Wix Racing Filter amzn.to/4bJLK77
To see how friction and wear are independent of each other, check out this video:
• More Zinc = More Wear?...
To learn about viscosity grades, check out this video: • The "W" DOESN'T Stand ...
Who is the @themotoroilgeek? I'm a Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Monitoring Analyst (I've maintained both of those for over a decade). I also worked for Joe Gibbs Racing for 12 years as their lubricant specialist. During that time, we worked with Wix Filters (one of our sponsors) to test and develop filters for our race engines. We also worked with Lubrizol and Chevron-Phillips Chemical to test and develop oils for our race cars. Following that, I was the head of R&D for Driven Racing Oil. During that time, I formulated and tested over 50 products. We also worked with Cummins, Comp Cams, Oak Ridge National Labs and General Motors on various R&D products. Those efforts are recorded in peer reviewed white papers published by SAE International and ACS Sustainable Chemistry journals. Today, I am the Tribologist for @TotalSeal , and I provide used oil analysis via SPEEDiagnostix.
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases That just means that I may earn a small commission, at no cost to you, if you choose to purchase that product from Amazon.com. It is a way to help support the work of The Motor Oil Geek.
#oilchange #motoroil #oilfilter #engine #dynotested #syntheticoil #oilanalysis - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thanks for all the comments! I wish I had time to read and respond to all of them, but I still have a day job that keeps me very busy! Fortunately, that "day job" allows me to go to a lot of cool places where we can sneak in a video sometimes, so it works out in the end as a positive.
For those with horizontally mounted or inverted filters, see if your vehicle has clear flood mode. If so, that's a great way to prime the oiling system before the higher pressures of combustion kick in.
Where would one look for "clear flood mode" information? I've never heard of such a thing, or seen such a phrase in the owner's manual.
I searched for "clear flood mode" in the PDF workshop manual, for my 2005 Jaguar (with horizontal oil filter) and "No matches were found."
What about cartridge filters? Should we soak the filter first and then place it in the cap, with oil up to the brim? Many thanks!
@EdAb I don't think every car has it. If you have an inverted or horizontal filter, even some oil is better than no oil.
@EdAb basically the ability to run the starter without fuel or spark activated.
Ive got one of my cars that i dont drive very often, wired so that i have the factory fuel injectors fuse, like 10 amps, going through a simple switch, so i can crank with the spark still going and once i crank and see oil pressure i just flip the switch and it lights off. Its also great to test for leaking fuel injectors and a theft switch.
@@danbusey Thanks for that explanation!
This channel is a must for car enthusiasts
Thank you!
Motorbikes too, but I wish Lake would test some motorcycle engines and bust some myths.
@@davidcann8788 That would be fun! What are motorcycle oil myths? Do air-cooled (oil-cooled) cars and bikes need to run different oils than water-cooled ones? Do rotary bikes (and cars) have different oil requirements?
Especially for gear heads
It's a must for people who want to believe a bunch of self-aggrandizing BS from a guy who claims scientific principle but doesn't adhere to it
This channel and Project Farm has saved me $$ from not buying products with trial and error 😡 Valuable information ℹ️
PF is a legend, TMOG is getting there.
@@MonkeyPunchZPokerlake is a true tribologist. PF will never be on his level on knowledge with oil. Those oil tests from project farms is a joke. I do like pf tool tests tho.
@@jwatt95 Love PF...most of his tests are great, but sometimes he is way off the mark because he doesn't quite understand something or how something works....
Love to see the data from both channels not just a guy saying he put it in his car and it was good or bad.
If he could only figure out how to save us all from chinesium junk car parts... 🔔😎
I have always prefilled my oil filters. My dad and grandpa taught me to always prefill the oil filter. They both gave a simple reason for it. Don't make the motor wait for oil.
It sure doesn't hurt anything.
After you run the engine if the filter is vertical with the mating surface up, the oil doesn't drain out..... that is the 'normal' condition.. so why not just fill it. I don't get people arguing against pre-fill
They were amongst the wisest of men. 3-6 seconds of no or low oil pressure at 1200rpm on a cold start elevated idle speed is never good. Not only pre fill the filter but change the oil while the motor is hot. Reason being, when starting it will go straight to the normal (lower)idle speed.
@@gothicpagan.666 prefill yes, hot change vs warm change, not much difference. They say so the old oil will drain out of the block,but it does that every time you shut it off. Only benefit is the oil flows out of the pan better.
That is the simple truth and based in physics I have no idea the logic people would have for not pre-filling.
Love the shoutout to Project Farm. Great channel.
Thanks!
Shout out to his brother😂
Putting all of the bro science theories to rest 1 video at a time 👌🏽
Yes, whenever a commenter includes “bro”, I discount them immediately.
Rock on!
Back in the day one of my manuals said 5w30 was acceptable below 70 ambient, 10w40 for -10 to 110, and 20w50 for 60 and above.
That engine is still going with 680,000 on the clock. This was before they cared about mileage and the minute difference it would make.
@@GT-mn3bx nice what engine is this?
I’m currently running a Nissan VR30DDTT and oem calls out for 0w20. There are arguments in the FB pages on whether or not to run 0w20, 5w30, 0w30, 0w40 or 5w40. OEM clearances are pretty tight, but this engine gets pushed to the extreme because of the tuning potential so lots of opinions being thrown around.
I always suggest to use the oil depending on climate and usage of the vehicle. If the car spends its time at 220+ engine oil temp you’ll want the thicker viscosity, but how thick is too thick on a modern vehicle you know.
@@ZillaFullBoostHow thick is too thick is a fantastic question. My truck calls for 5-20 and I suspect it’s too thin. But I don’t want to have it rebuilt anytime soon so I don’t want to pour 5-30 in and somehow it not receive good lubrication.
I've been using 20w 50 regular oil yearly for my 1986 Porsche 928 with over 200k miles recommended by Porsche mechanics in southern California because of Thrust bearings failures on low viscosity oils.
Manufacturers are under extreme pressure to achieve higher fuel efficiency and this is the main reason we have such thin oils as 0w8. Thin oils do save fuel. I will continue to use 5w30 or 0w30 in winter for all of my vehicles. If you get a new car every few years then the thin oils will be fine but I keep my cars as long as possible and 5w30 seems to be the ideal for me. The engines definitely run quieter.
I've been an engineer and auto technician for over 40 years. I have always prefilled the filter. Even if it's on a slight angle(old fords) I would try to put as much oil in as I could without it running out.
On my BMW E36 track car, that doesn't get used a lot especially in the winter, I installed an electric oil pump. When I turn the ignition on the ECU runs that pump until I get over 30 PSI of oil pressure.
No matter how long the car sits I never have a dry start.
My background is in Electronics and Automotive technology and I have wanted to do something like that for nearly 40 years. When I was a kid my dad had a system on his Humber for introducing a certain amount of upper cylinder lubricant (Redex) into the intake manifold on cold starts. Ever since then I always wondered why there wasn't a system like the one you described. How did you implement it and what kind of an electric oil pump did you use. TIA
I am the chief engineer for Hyde Motorworks.
I originally built this for my own car, 650 whp 2.3L TVS supercharged 3 l M50. My track toy. now I am developing it for customers.
I used a relatively inexpensive gear type oil pump from Amazon. It has a brass housing and stainless steel gears. I use a -8 line from a fitting in where the oil drain plug used to be. Not ideal but I didn't want to take the pan off again. Braided stainless over rubber line to the inlet of the pump. -6 line out. First to a 10 micron inline oil filter, then a one-way check valve, to T where the oil pressure switch is. It's not high volume with the restrictive lines. And the small Port where the oil pressure switch goes.
The pump itself is not designed to pump such heavy oil, and will overheat and shut down if I try to run it too long. But even after a complete oil change it only has to run about 5 Seconds to build 40 PSI of pressure. Cold the pump will run more than 30 seconds. So it does the job.
There are more expensive continuous duty oil pumps. They are used on small aircraft engines. But they cost over 1K. Back when I had oil starvation issues on high G corners, I thought about buying one. But then I realized the starvation issue was because the oil wasn't draining back to the pan fast enough and that pump would just be sucking air the same as the mechanical one.
So far I've had this exact same setup and pump on my car for over 5 years with zero problems. Last year I even dropped the pan and inspected the bearings. Despite all of the abuse they looked almost perfect.
@@kcdesignconcepts5216 I had 4 of those E36 models and an E21 as well. I wish I still had one, they were better made than what followed.
I'm so glad to find so many like-minded people here. I pre-fill my filter so I can get the level on the dipstick right the first time without having to faff around making up for that volume of oil that an empty filter takes up.
@@kcdesignconcepts5216 mech engineer here working in API rotating equipment...I do most of my own auto work. One thing I don't know for sure is, do all street car engines have the oil pressure switch upstream of the bearings? I assume yes but just seeing if you knew otherwise. Basically I've wanted to do this on my 12 Civic, 18 Camry, 05 Highlander.....basically any car I own. I'd love to know the make and model of the pump you use. Thank you! Lake confirmed pumping is different than pouring when it comes to cold pour tests but here in dead of winter, heck ya I'd like to start after oil pressure is satisfied.
OMG! This moment has come. Finally a real life approach of analyzing oil instead of using this one-handed bandit that everybody admires on CZcams. We need you, Lake!
This is the channel we have all been waiting for, real knowledge about oil and put it to the test, in stead of underbelly science...... Real engine, real oil analysis.
Thanks for sharing,
Thank you!
The water was interesting. Thanks for putting this to bed! Also, nice shout out to Project Farm!
Yes because the air has water on it and when you do not prefill the filter, that air and that water will be there until the PCV takes out the air
@@josemanuelaviladossantos3705 Agreed. Thinking out loud. If we accept that the water came from the relative humidity of the air in the filter. Does it make any difference HOW the water got out of the air and could it be controlled? A vacuum should force the water to vaporize out , wheras compressing the air would cause condensation. 🤔
I’ve been changing the oil in all my vehicles for the last 24 years. Today was the first day I’ve ever prefilled the oil filter. My engine thanks you, Lake!
I had a 76 Jimmy with a 350 and I always originally put the filter on empty when I changed oil, and it would clatter for several seconds before pressure built up on the gauge and the clatter would stop. I always hated that because I knew the engine was running with no oil and that was parts rubbing and wearing. One time, and this was back in the 1990's, I had the sudden idea to fill the filter before I installed it. The Fram filter at the time was the PH13, now the PH5, and it took a full quart. At the startup, it built pressure almost immediately with almost no clatter. I decided to prefill the filter from that point on. I was sold on the idea.
Now granted, that engine was upwards of 200,000+ miles by that point and may have benefited from an engine rebuild, but I ran it as is. I recently sold it and the people who bought it are having a blast getting it up and running again.
As far as the prefilled oil filler argument goes, how cool is it that we got real data and were among the first to know for certain, pre filled wins!
With lower viscosity oils, which makes it especially pertinent for most modern cars which specify thin oil grades.
so why are all newèr cars equiped with non spin on filters you cant prefill if it hurts so much?
Also i work on wheeloaders with 3 oil filters who take 3-4L of oil each, none pre fills them and we have had no failure due to not pre filling.
@@alexstromberg7696 Some engines like Subaru have the flood mode so you can crank them without starting (vertical upside down filter on the top of the engine in a FA-series Subaru). I don't believe Hondas have a flood mode though, so with the horizontal filter on the F-series and K-series I don't really understand how you are supposed to prefill it.
@@alexstromberg7696 I’m not sure “All” cars is true. My Tacoma uses a can that I prefill.
If you watched the video, failure wasn’t mentioned, wear was. Repeated wear isn’t every a good thing if you can avoid it.
Very cool BUT with a N=1 on each test its not possible to draw a conclusion such as they did. We have no idea of the variability of the measurements. they might be +/- 30 which would mean its the same. Depending on the variability they might have to run 3, 6, 10 times. Sorry to burst your bubble guys but its an easy fix...repeat at least 3x to get a handle those stats
As an analytical chemist, I love seeing proper experiment design and proper sampling technique. Great job! Awesome video!
Thank you!
@@themotoroilgeek how about repeatability and reproducibility? They skipped that part didn't they :)
No.
@@gacha24 most labs charge for digesting the sample and have a per element charge on top of that. Multiply that by the number of replicates and that gets expensive really fast. If you want to.do that, go ahead. They would love to take your money.
Very cool BUT with a N=1 on each test its not possible to draw a conclusion such as they did. We have no idea of the variability of the measurements. they might be +/- 30 which would mean its the same. Depending on the variability they might have to run 3, 6, 10 times. Sorry to burst your bubble guys but its an easy fix...repeat at least 3x to get a handle those stats
Lake is by far the smartest guy around on oil. Simple explanation for the novices. For us that have been around both stock and racing engines for decades have been through these type tests, but its never too old to learn. Thanks Lake
Got a 25 year old 5.3l Silverado with 500k km on the original drivetrain that says prefilling the filter doesn't hurt a thing. Just prefill the filter, you're going to put the oil in the engine anyway!
Awesome mention of Project Farm! They aren't as precise but they give a good ballpark idea of what's good or not.
Yep. I always fill it unless it’s at some awkward angle that makes it impossible.
@WalkerSmallEnginePerformace
I put as much as possible into those filters.
@@WalkerSmallEnginePerformance Even then you can usually fill it enough to soak the media.
@@WalkerSmallEnginePerformance even then i put a little in it and roll it around. My theory is every little bit helps and soaking the element has to help some.
@@GT-mn3bx wow i just made that point, i should have read ahead some.
This upload will likely launch this channel onto a whole new level.
I knew it. I really did use a little bit thicker oil than what is usually recommended in my diesel trucks. And after so many years, I never had any engine problem with any of them but I could not help by being anxious from time to time as I was doing what is out of the norm. But this video can somehow give me a peace of mind now. Thank you so much TMOG for bringing this topic up.
2 take aways:
- pre fill the filter, just in case.
- use the correct viscocity for your bearing clearances.
Thanks for doing the testing Lake. You're doing Gods work by helping people out in the small parts of thier lives.
Forgot to add,
What's the engine is being used for,
long runs= higher viscosity,
errands &mall pavement use= low viscosity
Which god?
@@dingbop963 The real one among the fakes ones.
ALWAYS knew that pre lubing an oil filter IS A MUST and that too thin of oil causes EXCESSIVE wear . Thanks for PROVING it.
I’m glad I watched this video, real world evidence instead of just theories
Thanks for watching and for sharing.
Love the science based approach on this channel and tribology seems very interesting. Thank you for your service to the car community!
These videos are so informative. Knocking these theories out and showing evidence based proof is awesome. Keep up the great work.
Really appreciate all the effort that goes into making this great content. I'd also suggest adding chapter markers to the video to help us follow along, especially for longer videos. Thanks you!
This is awesome to witness! Thank you Lake and Ben for providing science and breaking it down. Decades of speculation resolved.
What an amazing series of tests, I didn't want the video to end!!!
Thanks. I know it was a long one...
I LOVE the Filter Dry vs Filled Test! Myth of Contamination is DEBUNKED! Science over Speculation! All the Love to you Lake!
I use the motor oil designed for my Main Bearing clearances. When you start getting into the 0.001" clearances.. Thick oil just doesn't cut it for me. My clearance specs for 0W10, but the only availability for me is 0W8 or 0W16, so I will pick the closest I can. I am so glad Lake is covering this topic. If your oil can not flow into the Main Bearings, you will destroy the bearings in short order.
Thanks Lake, that was real research science data driven testing! NO Hogwash! I really like your Motor Oil Geek testing channel !
There's been a long-lasting debeate on this subject. Thanks for investigating it!
Forgot to mention great video one of the best most verbal controlled test i seen.
Those windage losses are not something that the average person thinks much about but they're clearly significant. Thanks for all the info in your videos!
Changed the oil in my 300k Corolla1.8 this morning, YES, I filled the oil filter! Please keep the info coming!
My 05 F150 4wd w/362k mis has never had a pre-filled oil filter. Tho 4-5k mi oil changes!
Thanks for your testing, Lake. You're doing us all a great service!
Our pleasure!
Awesome video... especially with Ben and EFI University involed. Very well done. 👏👏
Man,I think who ever built that motor with that many dyno pulls is the Goat! Great video as always!
An awesome vid as usual Lake! Thanks to You and Ben for dropping all this USEFUL, ACCURATE science!
Ben is the man! I hope we get to do more with him.
I’ve been “geeking out” getting most of my motor oil knowledge, beliefs, & practices confirmed.
Keep those vids coming!
That was very impressive. It looked like it was a huge amount of work and very painful to do but the results were fantastic. Thanks for sharing and yes I do prefill my filters now.
FWIW I'm using 5W-30 instead of 0W-20 in my wife's 2018 Jeep Cherokee after the warranty expired and noticed a definite difference in engine noise. It's a 2.4 Multiair and it's working like it should too. We're in a southern climate, though.
I did the same thing on a high mileage ford modular 5.4 3v engine. Also, a southern climate. Went from 5w-20 to 5w-30
@@impaledface7694
Me too
So am I. In a BMW 2.0 diesel 🤞
I had a 01 Grand Am 2.4l in Phoenix for 12 years. I was using 5w 40 synthetic oil and sold it when moving out of state with 327k miles. Manual called for either 5 or 10 w 30 oil. When some mechanics used 20w 50, the oil pressure sensor blew and started hemorrhaging oil until the oil pressure light came on. Be careful with too thick oil. I chose Mobil European 5w 40 because its specs were almost identical to 10w 30. It took Arizona heat without any problem.
exactly and as you approach 250k you may concider 10w40 if you live in a warm climate.
My work car is a 2005 Hyundai Accent 1.6L. The manual states to use 10w-40 for most conditions. The dealers started using 5w-20 at some point anyway, and it destroys the cylinder walls in these engines. An engine that should go 300k is lucky to go half that before major oil consumption problems start.
The engine was built to do 10w40 switching to a lighter oil will probably lead to oil consumption then engine damage because not everyone checks their oil all the time
@@anthonyk Definitely, in addition to the fact that a lighter oil than specified increases cylinder wall wear as Lake has demonstrated here
thinner oils are good for fuel economy but for me, I'd rather choose the thick oil that will guarantee engine longevity over changing cars running on thinner oils every 4 years
Wow.. NICELY DONE. Can't wait for the dry sump test !
Thanks for the great content as always, and all that effort you guys just put into this testing will go a long way!👍👍
I believe this video just ended the never ending arguments about thinner & thicker oil + pre fill oil filter
people who believe that prefilling filters will always believe it. (it doesn't matter)
Not really, because that's a race engine. The results might be completely different for a production engine. I bet on that.
@@xXturbo86Xx I agree. try this on modern mass production direction injection engine's...I'd be more surprised if it replicated this video's results.
@@alexstromberg7696 didnt you even watch the vid? there scientific proof prefilling is better.
@@xXturbo86Xx grasping at straws.
Lake, another fantastic video. So much content covered and so much to un-pack. As always, thanks for providing data instead of opinion.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Been prefilling my oil filters and cartridges since day one of owning a car! Great to hear the old timers taught us right!
im so glad this channel is a thing, i had so many questions about oil and stuff that i just couldnt get a solid answer on
Happy to help!
I ALWAYS learn good information on your videos. FYI being from Columbus MS and a huge NASCAR fan. Always pulled for Lake Speed! I have a couple of his nascar baseball card laminated and when I find them I’ll send them to you because I really appreciate your videos. Randy
I've always pre-filled my oil filters. I figured the less time it takes to build up oil pressure, the better, even if it was only a couple of seconds difference. Now I know why it's a good idea. Thanks for doing these tests! 😊
It sure doesn't hurt anything.
I agree about prefilling oil filter…. But with a horizontal oil filter you’re screwed…
Saturating the filter media and filling half way has benefits without spillage.
I have an inverted bare element, so I can't.
But I don't worry too much about it. It's still miniscule wear. But if possible, why not do it.
Cranking the engine with the fuel disabled until it builds oil pressure is an option, but I'm not entirely sure if that's actually much better for the engine since it will be rotating much longer without oil pressure since the oil pump is not efficient at ~200 RPM.
And even if cranking to prefill does reduce bearing wear, I'm not sure the extra battery and starter wear would be a worthwhile trade off for most people since bearings hardly ever wear enough to be a problem for the first few hundred thousand miles while batteries and starters frequently do.
@@averyalexander2303 limited load with no combustion, so nano wear. As far as the paper element filters, again crank the engine over by disabling the injector fuse or ignition fuse. With a push button type ignition, hold gas pedal to the floor at the same time holding the brake pedal and push the ignition button letting the engine spin over for about 3-5 sec. Push ignition button again to stop the engine from cranking. This procedure will fill the oil filter. I have tested this--by removing the oil filter on a horizontal spin -on filter after performing the procedure above, oil drained out of the new filter as much as did the old filter when removing it.
you could pre fill the vertical filter on my Fiat as long as you used the filter with the anti drain back feature. Could at least 2/3 fill it.
This is a most awesome comparison and illustration of hard to come by information. Big cheers.
Glad you liked it!
I have my parents 58 cadillac they bought in 1960. As long as I can remember dad always ran 10 40 castrol in it. In 1982 it was given to me. By 2011 the blow by coming out of the down draft tube was just no longer tolerable. I had the engine rebuilt by a shop in business for 54 years. The gentleman who did the work was 74 years old. When the car was ready, I asked him his recommendation for the oil. He said , Castrol 20 50. That's what's in it now. I said really? He said yup trust me. Run that oil in it, these 365, 390 engines love it. We're in Southern California, no issues with the winter temps. 13 years now it's running great. And NO BLOW BY!
It use to be "urban legend" that 10w 40 oil was extra full of viscosity improver additives that diluted the desirable lube components of the product and promoted varnishing although that would not have been specific to Castrol.
Some of those engines may have had excessively rich choke setting and/or choke pulloffs that didn't work properly and caused the engine to "load up" with increased fuel in oil dilution and wear, also some running without thermostat in the coolant circuit or a stuck open thermostat also contributing to rapid engine wear.
"aplication dictates chemistry".......thank you once again for giving me peace of mind and hope you`ll keep it going- best wishes from your silent follower...
This channel is the real deal! Awesome content!
Fascinating test, this channel is getting more interesting with each new video 👏👏👏
What you didn’t discuss is whether running a thicker oil (10W50) in an older engine that is specced for 5W30 would protect it better against wear.
Yeah, that would have been interesting, but in practice, we know that a thicker oil is an effective way to keep worn engines alive for a bit longer. It won't fix anything, but it sure helps quiet loose clearances, slow down oil consumption, boost low oil pressure, etc.
Originally spec'd, but what are clearances now? Do a UOA with both oils and see what the data says.
Use a 10W like 10W30
@@oneninerniner3427 A 10W-XX is fine if the lowest startup temperatures allow for that, but generally speaking, for keeping a worn engine alive, a thicker HOT viscosity is what may help, not so much the cold viscosity. Even the thinnest oils are way more than thick enough on cold startup.
Love this!! Fantastic data, every car guy should be subscribed
Thanks!
Great Video! You and Ben produced a scientifically significant analysis that is thoroughly enjoyable to watch.
Wow, thanks!
Good video guys, thank you. Filling the filter is fine unless your oil filter is rotated by 90 or 180 degrees on the engine.
Love these videos. I run a semi, and i feel like this makes a huge difference for the big trucks that are expected to go 750K-1M MILES before an overhaul.
I do have a question though. Could you please do a in depth video on what are the actual problems running a thicker or thinner oil in engines that the manufacturer recommends. Other than oil pressure being higher or lower, is there a tangable difference?
Yes please let us know.
Thanks chaps. Great work as usual.
Thank you!
Good video to show how important oil and water temps being the same on dyno runs when comparing different components on an engine. This adds a crazy amount of time to comparison tests to make sure they are accurate.
Don't ya love all the hotrodder Dyno pulls you see where the water and oil are 160*.... LOL... engines never run the cold.
Brilliant work! I argued that point with my Dad for years, and he was right!
I always use a little bit thicker oil than they call for plus pre-fill the filter. They were specifying super thin
oils for gas mileage for one. A slightly thicker oil provides better protection. I was figuring this, but THANK YOU FOR PROVING IT. I'm 69 years old and have been working on cars and maintaining them for decades as an amateur. .
You said: 'A slightly thicker oil provides better protection'
Not true.
If your clearances are small, running a thicker oil means you don't get the flow to the part thus you aren't lubricating at all.
Manufacturers design their engines for specific purposes. They have set diameter galleys, hoses, and clearances for journals. Then you come along and decide 'Nah, I'll make my own mind up'
Well, that's up to you, but saying 'Thicker oil protects better' is nonsense.
@@Hypersonik Manufacturers LIE. They say to use a thinner oil for MPG. You can go SLIGHTLY thicker. You believe the car companies oil change intervals also? Go ahead. listen to that shit , and it WILL cut a lot of life out of the motor. ANOTHER example where they LIE.
The water in the oil is coming from the air (atmosphere) that was in the unfilled filter. When that air is compressed rapidly (as the oil fills the system) and then decompresses as the oil pressure drops, a "cloud" forms. Tiny droplets of moisture are basically being extracted from that volume of atmosphere that was in the dry filter when it was installed.
WILD! I didnt see that coming either.
Love the scientific approach!
Great stuff! Really liking this channel!
It just makes sense to prefill your filter. I've been prefilling for 30 years and now, when someone says," why you doing that? The internet says don't prefill." I can now respond, "The motor oil geek did real tests and proved prefilling to be beneficial!" Thanks!
Just think, there's somebody else in the world looking at the same thing at this very moment!🤔🤫😬🤗😇
Internet nerds only know about cell phones and computers.
I really don't see any reason to NOT fill your oil filter when changing oil. It only makes sense as to why it SHOULD be done. I can't think of any reason at all to NOT fill the filter before installing it, not one that would make any sense at all. So I'm not sure why there is any debate on this subject at all. Maybe someone could enlighten me on the reasoning people are using to claim pre-filling the filter is a bad thing???
@@johngreen6643 I can't figure that one out either.
@@johngreen6643 They say you are putting unfiltered oil in the clean side of the filter. That's the reason given. I think it was just click bait to get more views, & so..... a myth is born!!
I would like to see this same test be performed in a modern engine that calls for 0w20.
That would be cool
@@themotoroilgeek Aren't we down to 0w8 now? I'm waiting for 0w1 so I can call it owl oil.
@@bobclarke5913 😂😂
@@bobclarke5913 I'm waiting to see a Negative ten-w-zero (-10w0) weight oil.....
I learn something new from all of these videos THANKS
Very cool! It makes sense! Heavier oil sticks around much better than the thinner stuff!
Thanks from Australia
G’day!
I would argue that the huge increase in metals during the last set of pulls with the 5-20 was because the oil was thinning out too much and not because of installing dry filters. And, unless I missed something, the 5-20 had very elevated lead before being run so clearly there was lead still in the engine.
The theory that most wear happens at startup seems completely logical....'till you notice that Hybrid cars don't go through engines any faster than normal cars despite the fact that they start dozens of times throughout a normal work commute vs. twice for a normal car.
Once they have turned over, stopping for a few seconds doesn't dry out the engine
@@marcus.H They stop for much longer than a few seconds, how long it's stopped varies greatly. Also, an engine doesn't dry out sitting overnight, or even months or years.
@@DonziGT230 I've driven hybrids and it's just a few seconds at the lights 🚦
@@marcus.H I've driven them too and have seen the engine off for several minutes at a time, even while driving. They don't only turn off for stop lights, and most stops at a light are much longer just than a few seconds. I spent several minutes driving in slow freeway traffic yesterday without the engine starting a single time. It ran for about 10-15 seconds when I accelerated quickly to change lanes, then it was off again for several minutes.
Exactly. Hybrid cars don't only shut off at traffic lights, it's almost every time you take your foot off the gas and when the vehicle is at a speed that it can run off electric power. My 20 year old prius will run electric only until 42mph depending on constant speed/vs acceleration. To accelerate electric only from a stop you have to feather the pedal. Current charge effects that as well @DonziGT230
One of my all time favorite videos Lake! Thank you!!!
Im very glad i found this channel
Thanks for your posts ❤
Thanks for watching!
This helps validate my choice of going with 5w30 in my brand new 2024 Mazda Miata Club over the “recommended” 0w20. I preformed an initial oil change at 800 miles from the factory fill and after watching a ton of Lakes videos I am going with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 in a prefilled Wix filter! I live in North Carolina and my Miata won’t be exposed to very cold weather and feel this oil will serve me well. Thank you for all the great information and amazing content!
Owners manual actually recommends 5w30 for best engine health.
What's wild is in the 2017 Miata owners manual, they recommend 0w20 for the US and Canada, and 5w30 in all other regions. Same story with the BRZ; Canada and US only lists 0w20 as suitable, where the Japanese manual lists 0w20, 5w30, and 5w40, noting that 0w20 will yeild the best fuel economy.
It's obvious that they're choosing emissions and fuel economy over engine longevity.
@SpencerWatches Exactly. My wife's 2013 2.4 Honda (now is my Daughter's) is the same way, factory recommended strictly 0w20 unless nothing else is available. The same engine (2.4L) in other countries, which is identical there and here, depending on the country is approved up to 5w40. Commonly recommended viscosity was 5w30. The only few countries had a 0w20 recommendation, all of the 0w20 countries were C.A.F.E countries.
I searched many engines out of curiosity, using "recommended oil" choice by country on a Castrol site. I live in the deep south US, and the summer morning are often 80 deg+ at dawn, and 100+ daytime summer temps are run-of-the-mill. I run 5w30 in my wife's Mazda cx90 and 5w20 in the Honda. The honda lives a cush life and never driven hard, and the Mazda for that matter. The honda also runs relatively low oil temps, so I'm confident in synthetic 5w20 with its oil temp and bearing journal clearances.
The Mazda is turbo, inherently runs hotter oil temps, so a synthetic 5w30 is my choice in our climate.
@@SpencerWatches Best fuel economy goes hand in hand with more power too though. The 5W30 might be costing 0.5-1hp or something compared to the 0W20. It depends how the car is going to be used (will the MX-5 do track days) and how hot the oil will get (0W8 or 0W16 generally not a problem for Toyota Priuses for instance which will never be driven hard and the oil won't get hot at all), no? It's not unheard of for small block racing engines like the LS in the video (or older Windsors or SBCs) to run 0W20 for qualifying for the extra power and then run a 5W30 for a 1000km race. Conventional wisdom may be to run a 10W50 or 10W60 racing oil in a race motor like that but that's not necessary anymore with modern racing oils, you can have the extra power from the thinner oil and *still* have no appreciable wear when the engine is rebuilt at 3000km.
5w40 Is even Better, w30s are not so good in Summer if you actually run your engine like Is meant to
This was worth every minute of watching.
Sometimes opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them. The real world tests performed on this channel are the only way to go. Thx Lake for your content.
I always shake my oil container - smell the oil and pre-fill the oil filter ! Done this for decades ! Same o'l me !
I always prefill the filter before shaking the jug. I shake the jug before pouring into the engine though. The reason being, if by chance something got into the oil where they bottled it, I want it to get filtered out before going to the heads/lifters.
@LeadStarDude I'll remember that. Thanks, man!
Speed says that shaking doesn't remix any settled out additives.
Thought I was the only weirdo that smelled oil, some of it smells good to me
@@jeremymyers5643 its good to know what it should smell like, thats just one way to do it
I did it by getting covered in oil when taking off oil pan before, apparently 2 ish quarts remained below the level of the oil pan bolt and the baffling
I love this stuff!
Awesome video Lake . Thank you
Gotta love the science! Makes me think. And I like to think! Thanks Lake, thank you very much.
"I don't really care about speculations or opinions; we're going to let the data show us which one works best."
That is without a doubt the greatest quotes of all time!
I was honestly hoping for a 5w20 vs 10w30 comparison, and hopefully you'll perform that test in the future. :) Regardless, my engine calls for 0w20 and I will never run oil that thin - 5w30 will remain my standard, and this data backs up that choice.
0w20 is just catpiss. 30/40/50 are the real oils for me.
I have been prefilling oil filters for 30 years and it's just common sense. The extra volume of air in an empty filter has to be displaced for one thing, so that air has to get pushed up through the engine before dissipating around the bearings, so no oil until that happens. Your oiling system is designed to always have oil in the filter, so why wouldn't anyone do that with an oil change? Great video! Love the real info!
Incredible efforts! Shows that it is better to inch up the viscosity....do not go Lower. U guys are the best!
I really enjoyed this video.....learned a tremendous amount of info.
I always prefill my filters and I've never heard the argument not to. That few seconds difference to build pressure adds up over an engines life time of oil changes.
The dumbest argument I have heard from a well known CZcams channel is that pre filling the oil filter contaminates the oil. My reply is if the new engine oil is contaminated by adding it to the filter you might want to change brands. The oil is the same oil you are pouring in the engine to begin with. I have always pre filled my filters and although you cannot completely fill a horizontal mount filter I usually fill the filter close to half and allow a couple of minutes for the paper element to absorb before I install the filter.
Great content. If you get a chance, could you shed some light on the oil catch can? Love the info. Thanks
Sure thing
Definitely
I have noticed increased oil change intervals on my 2018 silverado 5.3 w/a catch can. I currently have 8k on my oil (0w20 costco) and it still has good color on the dipstick. Previously the oil would be dark/black by 20% on the oil monitor in about 5k miles. I'm in a northern cold humid climate.
Been awesome getting to learn all this from someone I've heard so much about...Patrick Burris is a close friend of mine. If I had finished chemical engineering school, doing what you do would have been a dream job!
Excellent! Science for the win. Awesome channel.
Great job guys
Thank you!
Keep up the great work, love your videos. I enjoy learning new content from you.
I appreciate your videos
I appreciate you watching!
Fascinating. I've always just "done what the manufacturer suggests".... and that's served me well. I'm just running a work van and a passenger car... no racing here.
Very enlightening Video. As a Retired Professional Wrench, I've encountered many Vehicles over the span of 5 decades that Unfortunately Pre-Filling the Oil filter just isn't an option. I began my career rebuilding Rotary Engines at a Mazda dealership at age 18 in 1974, Rotary Engines of that era had an Inverted Mounting for the Spin On Oil Filter (upside down). Many European Marques utilize a Cartridge Type oil Filter which is also found in modern Rotax in Marine PWC's
Real FACT is that we luv these vids! Science for the win!
Thank you!
@@themotoroilgeek i just found your channel but you are quickly becoming my favorite geek, keep up the good work
Another amazing content as usual. The only regret is that you spend so much time for a no brainer so called debate, pre-filling or not.
In this vein, I propose the next video to be the hot topic, Engine with oil vs Engine with no oil 🙄🙄 Yeah
I wished you would have spent more time for more in depth information about the differences in oil viscosity and the results in different conditions.
Thank you so much anyway for this valuable information provided!
Stay tuned for the next one…
very interesting, good job guys!!
Your videos are fascinating.