Hyperspeed is Insanely Fast
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2018
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I think all ships in Star Wars travel at the speed of plot.
lol
:-D :-D :-D A good one.
I believe that your statement perfectly applies for the films (or at least some of them) and perhaps also the TV shows.
However, more thought has usually, not always, been put into this reality within the work of the Expanded Universe (now Legends) to make it feel more "realistic" (if this word can ever be used in such a debate), because lots of the authors were nerds who liked this kind of stuff, plus they did not have to hasten a pace of the stories as much as the film creators usually must.
Having said that, I'm fairly sure that one would also find in those works quite a few instances of nonsensical speeds.
Green Dragoon yeah. Lol.
And the first series of Discovery.
It's been clear since the original trilogy that they traveled much faster than star trek ships.
Interestingly.. Game of Thrones has a similar problems. Westeros is really England. Some of the cities in the same locations are even named similarly. But it was made 4x as big so it would be a full on continent. Then Martin or HBO forgot and used travel distances based on england-- not westeros. So you have very high speed dragons (about 2,000 miles in 24-48 hours), and armies that move at modern mechanized speed.
Meanwhile in Warhammer 40k, of you use FTL travel:
- you may not arrive at the right time
- you may not arrive at the right place
- you may not arrive at all
Honestly I don't know why 'anyone' in 40k uses that FTL system when the risks are so damn great, surely the physics in that universe allows for even 'slow' Warp Drives.
@@mrbuttocks6772 The answer is there is no other alternative unless you’re the necrons with their magic level technology. Without warp travel the imperium itself would fall apart over night.
Or you will arise. But by the time you do, it's like 5 million years in the future
@@MrCOLBSTAH Or three thousand years before you were born.
@@mrbuttocks6772 The Eldar Webway is faster and safer than Warp but still requires whatever magic mumbo jumbo Eldars have in their ships to access. Meanwhile, the Tau has their Ether/gravitic drives that are waaaaaaay slower than Webway or Warp travel, but much safer and more consistent.
Yes, but you forgot *Spaceballs* and their *Ludicrous Speed*
When you go plaid, all bets are off.
Go past this part. In fact, never play this again.
And the necrons and their I shit you not the faster then everyone drives
@@dudeyoudontneedmyname p l a i d
Haiperspace Is a different dimension
"They'll never get there in time to save him, they have to come half-way across the galaxy." -- Padme, Attack of the Clones
If anything, that says more about the Geonosian justice system and how they deal with spys.
then again, that was hyperspace tech from around 70 years before
@@luiscolin7775 I think Acclamator-class assault ships have pretty fast hyperdrives, though. I think they have Class 1.0 hyperdrives.
@@MaxWelton they have class 0.6
@@joelbibeault1169 No, they don't.
Hyperspace speeds absolutely vary depending on the hyper-routes. Ships can move much faster through well-charted hyperlanes (like the Correllian Run or Hyperion Way for example). Minor hyperlanes are not as well charted and ships must go slower through them. And the difference can be vast. Going from the core world of Coruscant to Tatooine is like a day, whereas it can be weeks to get to someplace much closer because there are no major hyperlanes in that direction. This has all been established since the 1980s. That's why speed is rated as a multiplier of travel time, and not an absolute speed (like lightyears per hour, etc). Instead, you look at the travel times on the chart, which is all about the nature of the hyperlanes, and then you multiply by the hyperdrive multiplier.
this
double this
Triple this. While warp don't need lines if im correct.
@@rohenthar8449 correct, point in direction and go.
Since the show was all about exploring, I guess that is by design. Whereas star wars was a more well explored galactic community with strategically important stable trade lanes.
They tech is usually a function of the theme.
It’s like the difference between taking a highway to get somewhere as opposed to a state road
FTL is always interesting grounds in SciFi. Star Trek has Warp Speed which may well be slower, but it's a slower paced franchise in general. Halo is interesting where Human ships could escape into slipspace only to find the Covenant fleet that left hours after them, waiting for their emergence. Forerunner mastered FTL to the point their infantry have it.
And then there's Warhammer 40k, where you can arrive as early as yesterday and as late as 500 years in the future.
there have been ships that existed the warp in 40k that entered it before the fall of the eldar empire so 10 to 15 thousand years, and it only felt like a few hours to them. meanwhile there have been ships that arrived a few hours after they left but the crew experienced thousands of years
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Holy crap the warp is an even shittier FTL Option than I thought with this tidbit.
@@kraigisboss Everything about 40k is shitty. It's a horrible, horrible place to live. And we love it.
@@destyrian sounds like Palatine would have a vacation home there lol
You forgot to mention that in Warhammer 40k there is also the possibility to make a covenant with a god while you are traveling, so things don't get boring. In-flight entertainment! :D
Hyperspace speed is heavily dependent on the amount of data available. Using a major trade lane will let you cross the galaxy at mindblowing speeds. Traveling throw the middle of nowhere - well.
It's not that you can't go fast without data, it's just that you would essentially be driving your car blind and hoping you don't slam into anything while going fast. They go slow so that way if something pops up in their path they have more time to stop. It's why the randomness of the purrgil annoys people, especially when they cause crashes.
With the lack of cohesive, planned, Canonical writing in these movies I think looking too deeply into any details may well make the entire thing unravel... in many spots it feels like the writers of one film are TRYING to unravel any continuity from the previous film.
Kind of like real life, I remember me and my family went on a road trip and my dad had the bright idea to take a shortcut through the woods, said we would get there in half the time it would take using the main roads, it ended up taking even longer then if we just used the highway XD
Everybody gangsta until the flying space church comes out the inmaterium with echoes of the damn souls of hell at it back.
In legends, they measured hyperspace closer to 1,500x the speed of light....it's very inconsistent...I think Hyperspace speeds are as fast or slow as the script and screen writers need it to be.
WE TRAVEL AT THE SPEED OF PLOT
Seems to be the same with warp drive really. we know what the tech manuals say, but they violate those figures constantly. I play a lot of Elite Dangerous and I learned that at 500c it takes forever to get anywhere.....lol
Tasty Treats It depends on the ship in my opinion.
Speeds below 1.2 million times light are extremely unlikely, given the 'days/weeks' to cross the galaxy assumption. The slowest flight was actually Tatooine to Geonosis, which may have taken over a day to cross only 1 parsec/ 3 light years.
Legends is stupid.
I always thought that "hyperspace" travel was basically going into a separate, parallel type of space and then exiting out at a different point. In the normal space, it would be like traveling faster than light, but you would still be traveling at regular speeds around actual obstacles in that other space. It, therefore would vary based on the route in hyperspace.
Welp, when Admiral Gender Studies (i.e. Holdo) pushed the last Rebel (Resistance...oh well, not even the freaking writer know which is which anyway...)cruiser into hyperspace to kill the Supremacy, she (well, the SOB who wrote that malignancy into existence) KILLED every theory everyone had been building on how hyperspace worked in the past 40 years...so your theory is as dead as everyone else's! Subvert expectations? More like subvert the whole universe and throw it into the nearest black hole...
TSEDLE333 The Last Jedi is not canon. It was just Luke who had a bad Dream....
TSEDLE333 -- afraid that movie can't count toward canon if the writer is too stupid to know how the universe they are writing about works. (Unless canon is a tool of the patriarchy and "in universe" feminists can ignore it whenever they want)
I am fairly certain that the ship goes into hyperspace after it is done accelerating or doing to initial jump.
Meh, canon is whatever the writers decide it is. Always has been, always will be, in all fictional universes. We say hyperspace is another dimension, but we can clearly see celestial bodies from our own 3D space turning into bars of light that rush past us. Even Han says (in the clip in this video) that they have to navigate around stars and planets when travelling in "hyperspace." Hyperspace can't be another dimensional space or level or reality that has different physics and actually has stars and planets in it; after all, those things can only exist because of the physical constants of our universe, chief among them being the speed of light. Hyperspace is just a term, a plot device, used by writers to suggest that there's a way to beat the speed of light. It will never be logically consistent because, like all technologies in all fictional universes, it is only there to serve the writers.
As to the misogynistic epithets some of you are tagging Holdo with....I know, right? How dare a female occupy a prominent position in OUR universe, let alone make the ultimate sacrifice to protect her people? Also she has purple hair and isn't as pretty as Leia, damn her eyes and may her spawn be cursed unto the fiftieth generation.
Since Star Wars doesn’t really care about science and hyperspace is a different dimension maybe there are hyperspace currents
More like mass creates gravity shadows and wells on the dimension, so flying near a planet in hyperspace or a star is a bad idea, its gravity well will pull you out, then its either a case of SPLAT or burning up. It's why interdictors work, they create fake gravity wells and anything passing by loses their hyperdrive.
No not evan the people in star wars don't fully understand it It was reverse enginerd from a specicis named the rucatdan so shut up
@@robertnegotei3495 I bet your diet consists of fried butter.
If you think star trek gives two shits about science either I've got bad news for your understanding of science.
There's so much unobtainium, technobabble and utter bs it's just as ludicrous.
Just pop popcorn, sit back and unplug your brain.
The fanboiz who argue one sides more accurate than the other makes Asimov spin so hard in his grave we could end oil dependency just by hooking a generator to the corpse.
@@robertnegotei3495 you mean the Rakata?
Late to the party, but I always took hyperspace to be essentially near-infinite speed, primarily limited by finding paths not interdicted by natural gravity wells. Thus, the hyperspped factors of engines are not velocity, but tolerance of gravity wells, allowing you to take longer jumps with less lane clearance.
with regards to spacetime relativity, the difference between the two understandings fades
Yes I agree with this comment a lot, elite dangerous fsd drive shows a realistic version of this
Also fuel burns fast so you can’t go that far without refueling, Star Wars goes around this by having fuel be used slow in hyperdrive, elite dose the opposite and it goes faster in the regular enigne(seems the same but it’s not)
I can go with that, given that it was established in Legends that a hyperdrive would not even function in a gravity well, which is why the Empire build vessels like the Interdictor-class cruisers with the gravity well projectors. Something that they threw out the window with the sequel trilogy.
@@CharlesHuse Which is why I hate the new trend of showing ships make the jump while still within a planet's atmosphere. Or the Force Awakens "we'll come out of hyperspace really, really close to the planet" method.
Trips in Star Wars across the galaxy take a matter of hours or at most days.
Trips in Star Trek across the galaxy take Decades. It's the foundational plot point of Voyager.
That's for 24th century Starfleet. Various other races in Trek can cross the galaxy in days, hours or minutes. By the 29th century, Starfleet can casually time travel anywhere instantly. This context is important for comparison.
yea, but they are measuring distance by lightspeed and calculating base on that, hence the light day, week, or years. Warpspeed is calculated on that. Warp 1 = the speed of light or 189,000 miles a second, warp 2 = 2x2x2 or 8x the speed of light and so on.
@@orencio1969 ...You forgot the Cochrane factor, for the effect of mass, averaging 1292.7238c for Wf1 from the Introduction to Navigation booklet, Star Trek Maps.
2x2x2x 1292.7238 for an example.
the Borg get around just fine
@@cgdimension Borg Transwarp Hub; deployment anywhere in the galaxy in minutes.
"Prepare the ship for ludicrous speed!"... "They've gone to plaid!"
You're always preparing! Just go!
It's magic and we know that a wizard arrives exactly when he intends to.
Unless he is.... delayed.
Brah it is a different dimension and the speed is dependent on the hipperdrive class if the main one is destroyerd or not the class of the backup usually much slower like class 10+ natural gravity wels like black holes or roge stars artificial ones named interdictors
In SW lore, hyperspace is pretty much teleport. The distance traveled matters little, what makes going to point A to point B take a second or a year is how well know an hyperspace route is, how powerfull your navicomputer is and how many jumps are required to get in there.
You could travel from the core to the tip of the galaxy arm in a second if your route was solid enough, or you could take a century navigating inside a nebula to find your way out. Distance is not a problem in SW lore, how you know your path is.
THE FORCE IS THE ONLY PATH. THATS WHY LEIA FLYS IN SPACE! HERRRRRR DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Distance and speed are not the issue yes. It's more about smacking into things en route. Some hyper drives ARE slower than others, but most ships only care about smacking into other objects.
The inconsistency of Hyperspace speeds is pretty consistent with what we know from previous canons. It's why hyperspace lanes are important. They presumably make hyperspace lanes faster.
I know it's a year later, but did you say that hyperspace lanes make hyperspace lanes faster?
@AmplifiedSilence Hyperspace is analogous to Minecraft's Nether, key differences being that (according to the EU) Hyperspace is composed of a highly energetic, exotic matter that would annihilate normal matter similar to anti-matter (which is why we only see a "tube" when ships enter it, for it is not a corridor or tunnel, but a shield protecting the ship from Hyperspace itself), is occasionally patrolled by starweird, is influenced by massive bodies in normal space (usually in the form of mass shadows, which can cause a slew of accidents such as going nuclear (but still remaining in Hyperspace), just simply being stranded there, being blended by gravity, blown across time, disintegrating, dropping out of Hyperspace (Oh, and in the case that you drop out of Hyperspace unintentionally, your ship most likely immobile and you have to deal with whatever pulled you out too.), etc.), has different universal constants (especially the values for special and general relativity), and is much more condensed than normal space (increasing the chances of accidents in that dimension). This is not Star Trek's Warp, where they bend (mostly empty) space to propel themselves, this is Star Wars, where we blast ourselves into an entire dimension of its own, to bypass the light speed limit.
@@MarioPerez-ng9it It's interesting to think about how the legends explanation lines up with what we've seen in THR, with (LOTJ spoilers) the Legacy Run disaster, the San Tekkas and their hyperspace prospecting empire, and the Nihil and their paths. It's also being depicted as somewhat like water or air, with turbulence and rough spots that actually cause a physical change in colour. (Spoiler end)
I hope we get fully fleshed out lore soon, because trying to piece it together is a real headache
@@littlechickeyhudak It is, but it is a fun headache.
Having different speeds at different locations for hyperspace makes sense: after all battles are fought over hyperspace lanes
But how do we know that the (far, far away) Star Wars galaxy is the same size as our own (and Star Trek) galaxy?
It does seem to make sense that hyperspace or subspace (or whatever) has "lanes" or "weather" or "terrain" which affect travel speeds between different points.
@@pwnmeisterage it was stated a while ago that the star wars galaxy was comparable in size to our own, now weather or not that's still cannon I dont know but I guess I'll accept it until Disney wants to change it
@@grandadmiralthrawn8116 officially it should not be canon because it was stated by george lucas in an interview. But as I don't care for disney at all I would still consider it canon especially since we have no other number.
Nothing beats Dune's folding space. Travelling without moving.
The Spice MUST flow
Or the spore drive anywhere any time
@@aditya3127 The spore drive was a dumb idea.
4:04 "So that means one of two things..."
You are neglecting a third possibility: the writers are complete hacks.
also his measurements on the size of the star wars galaxy would greatly affect the final number.
100K Ly may be far larger than the actual size of the star wars galaxy
@@halochamp91 that's actually reasonable. Consider the millennium falcon flies from the hoth system, to the bespin system without a hyper drive (I know later retcons added a backup hyper drive that it used for this, but that's BS, as if we follow retcon rules some other things break badly) in a few days to weeks not a few hundred or thousand years.
So either bespin is now in the same system as hoth, which it's not, they are shown to be over a 1000ly apart at minimum or light travels far slower in the SW universe, which actually makes sense when you consider their directed energy weapons moving so slowly. Thus a LY is actually far smaller in SW than in star trek, in turn I also argue that standard gravity is far lower on SW to explain who swings and base model tie fighters (max speed 100MGTL, max accel 20MGTL or 4100g/s) in theorgy fly speeds upto 200900m/s (2009km/s or 72323km/hr), and fight at the speeds with normal human reactions. Take into account at that speed, the death star trench run lasts less than a 10th of a second, and that's a full lap. So, either they just make up numbers for fun at times, or they are morons. I go for the latter, as they give ships in space max speeds, which is stupid. Ships have maximum acceleration, a max speed only applies to an object encountering resistance.
@@cgi2002 A for effort, but the correct answer was: The writers are complete hacks.
The correct answer is, of course, that the writers are complete hacks... That being said, nothing in any of the Star Wars movies leads me to believe that the Star Wars galaxy is very large at all. Consider the senate in the prequels, my guess is that there are 500 seats there. Many planets aren't part of the Republic and many planets aren't even inhabited and perhaps only relatively major planets are represented. But from what we have seen, many planets with small populations are represented, so... I figure we are looking at maybe 1,000 planets with significant populations, Maybe, 2-3,000 others with outposts or the like, and perhaps a hundred thousand or so total stars. Oh, and a parsec is a unit of measure which is based on earth's orbit. At that distance an object would have one arc second of apparent shift over 6 months (half the earth's orbit.) Every planet would have a different measurement for what a parsec is based on it's orbital diameter.
@@cgi2002 Actually when you travel at speeds over I think two thirds of lightspeed (don't quote me on that one) the near vacuum of space starts behaving like air because there are particles flowing around but with far more distance than in atmospheres.
On the other hand does everything in the SW universe travel with the speed of plot so who cares.
One other issue with the map is that it's a 2-d representation of a 3-d space. The actual distances could be even greater than they appear!
Galaxies are practically 2 dimensional at this scale. The Milky Way is about 100 times wider than its disc is deep.
@@YIIMM That doesn’t change the fact that with only safe lanes of travel it would be a bitch. Play elite dangerous and you’ll see that if you had to use specific routes it would grind your travel speed down.
@@cryamistellimek9184 You've changed the topic.
@@YIIMM No I didnt? I’m giving an example to prove his point? Because it’s a game where the galaxy is scaled so you can see having to move up and down as actually a big deal you can witness yourself.
@@cryamistellimek9184 You're claiming a counterpoint to a point no one was arguing in the first place.
Yeah when obi wan had to travel to the water planet in the "outer rim" he jumps in a pod about the size of a lazy boy chair and gets there before lunch
He probably even had lunch with the Kamino Prime Minister before he tussled with Jango Fett.
Not even the outer rim. Kamino is extragalactic, on the fringes of the Rishi galaxy, which is a companion galaxy to the main one (and so decently close in terms of galaxies), but still pretty far out.
@@littlechickeyhudak yeah camino is insanely close in terms of galaxies but it is still a rarely visited world which disproves the common theory that regularly used hyperlanes are faster.
@@thehighground3630 although part of the trip would’ve been through dark space between galaxies. I wouldn’t assume there’s many obstacles that have to be carefully navigated around. It’s also possible that the Rishi Galaxy isn’t aligned with the main galaxy’s plane of orbit, meaning he could’ve simply had to go “up” out of the galactic disc, giving him a straight shot through empty space to Rishi
@@littlechickeyhudak the rishi maze is indeed above the galaxy and to the side. So a decent part of the journey would have been through emty space but still the theory says that a hyperlanes gets faster if it's more commonly used. That's apparently how the hyperlanes first developed.
Given how little thought was put into Last Jedi in general I can’t imagine they seriously sat down and decided how fast hyperspace jumps were.
Exactly, I would take it with the largest possible grain of salt
I have a good comparison for how hyper-lanes work in Star Wars. In Elite Dangerous, when your starship is in supercruise, your speed is limited when you get close to a large body of mass like a planet or a star. The further away you stay from these objects, the faster you can go. Now apply this to Star Wars. This explains why the deep core is such a clusterfuck to navigate through and why it takes so goddamn long; there's way too much mass there. But on the further-out edges of the galaxy, there's not as much mass, meaning it's much easier to go at high speed. Like in Elite Dangerous, you'd always weave neatly between planets to maintain a high speed so you can get to your destination faster.
Nicely put. There's nothing more exciting in Elite Dangerous than getting in between the solar systems of a couple stars, cranking the engines to maximum and hitting essentially Warp 15+ because there's barely any gravitational pull and there's likely no heliopause pushing against the ship.
Stargate franchise still has more insane hyperspace speeds. Even more insane when we talk about the gate itself.
Well the speeds depend on the amount of power needed to power the drive and what shielding the ships have, as while the Wraith have the power their organic ships don't have the shielding to go more than 50 light years per jump.
Star Trek also has even faster speeds, since it's the only franchise with a drive as fast as infinity.
@Nick Walsh Transwarp drive? Which grants you the ability to cross the galaxy in seconds?
To be fair to SG.. The technology that is used for propulsion is millions of years old. So, there's a definite possibility that over that time the Ancients and other such races have a firmer understanding of astrophysics and how to side-step the "rules" than we do today. There is also the possibility that once a ship leaves a galaxy's gravitational influence higher speeds may be possible than we would see within it. I know, I'm grasping at straws, but who knows?
AvengerBB1
Iirc there was an ancient ship traveling at nearly the speed of light on sublights alone. That’s pretty crazy.
Yeah, those Star Wars ships may be fast, can can they go Warp 10 infinite "freaky salamander sexy time" velocity fast? I think not!
Jack Harrison, warp 10 needs INFINITE POWER which is impossible
@@daniusredshadowdragon508
Except when they actually did go warp 10 in VOY.
yobeefjerky, I completely forgot about that episode!
Hmmm class .1 hyperdrive anyone?.... No OK! (slaps one on X-Wing) CATCH ME IF YOU CAN FEDERATION SLIME!
Hush you! We do not speak of that abomination
4:26 That actually makes a lot of sense. Accelerating to top speed and decelerating from it must be accounted for as well, just like using long and relatively straight (usually) ramps to accelerate to freeway speeds and decelerate therefrom. Even if the ships themselves are capable of much more rapid changes in velocity, the human body isn't, with anything above 9g or about 88 m/s^2 being considered lethal. Hyperspace may allow incomprehensibly fast travel, but you can't just snap your fingers and be traveling at that rate. I know hyperspace is technically more of an alternative or higher dimension rather than a pure superluminal speed, but the transition from "classical" space to hyperspace and vice versa must still be survivable in order for it to be a viable method of transportation.
The in-world theory is that the ships aren't accelerating to that speed, but the drive is "warping" spacetime around the ship. Hence the inertial effects on the crew are minimal.
Ships are NOT moving through space, they are warping it or entering subspace. There is no acceleration nor deceleration. Completely different from Newtonian physics.
In the strategy games for star wars some hyperspace lains were way faster then others so that could be why the number changed.
The better mapped a lane is, the less likely you're going to smash into something, the faster you can go towards your drives max speed. Most of the 'slowness' in hyper space is going slow on purpose to not smack into things, or have at least some time to try and react if you're about too.
An interesting topic as usual, here's some of my thoughts!
Given the upper limit of your estimates I see a very real problem. When traveling at some millions of times the speed of light a delay of even a tiny fraction of a second would probably equal missing your target by some millions of kilometers. I didnt do the math but it would be interesting to see what kind of accuracy would be needed to slot a ship into a position where the target planet is clearly visible as we see many times in the films. I bet that at your upper speed estimate it would come down to femtoseconds!
So practically speaking I imagine travel is done with a series of jumps at ever reduced speeds and ever increasing accuracy.
They may make 99% of the jump to Canto with one very long fast leg aiming for some light years wide void so as to miss any objects. Then they re calculate another jump at a slower velocity to get closer to the target. Perhaps trading off fuel efficiency with multiple rapid jumps vs one very slow but accurate jump?
On the return trip they do the same, a long rapid leg to get to the region the fleet is in, then we come in to witness the final low speed high accuracy jump across the last few parsecs.
Thats the basics of my idea, but I think theres lots of light canon proof that covering that distance naturally takes many jumps. Like the jagged line marking their course.
Then theres oddities like watching Han and others manually engage and disengage hyperdrive, with human reaction time being in the half second range I cant see us possibly navigating hyperspace with knobs and levers.
DrewLSsix And thats why hyperspace tracking isnt a thing
Multiple jumps
Here's some headcanon for your final paragraph: Han isn't controlling the hyper jump directly, but rather cutting the hyperdrive in and out of the ship's functions once calculations or the trip is complete. It seems logical to me that you wouldn't want your normal space thrusters interfering with your trajectory in hyperspace, so the levers would be like shifting a car into neutral and letting the "jet engine on the roof" (hyperdrive) power it until you reach your destination. Once there, the hyperdrive shuts down automatically at precisely the right instant and location, and the pilot re-engages the n-space engines and controls so that they can maneuver.
The only problem I see with what you are saying is...
Inertia.
We know inertia is a thing because of the hyperspace ram. The reason that worked using a smaller ship is that mass had velocity. Which means that destroying a planet would be easy (attach hyperspace engines to a mass, point them at a planet and BLAMO). Just leave the mass moving at the higher speed, right?
Second, you have a navigation problem.
When you come out of hyperspace near where a planet blew up.... oh wait.
You have inertia running in to an asteroid field (planetary debris field). How can you detect it AND drop out of hyperspace fast enough not to be obliterated by that debris running into you at.... a REALLY high rate of speed. Yes, it probably MUST be slower than the speed of light, but that’s still pretty damn fast ;)
Anyway, that’s a lot of compute cycles to spend on something that isn’t real.... yet.
@@EverettVinzant kinda hard to hyperspace into a planet when the hyperdrive shuts down or simply doesn't work in a gravity well, isn't it?
@@EverettVinzant a few Problems Come up with your theory:
1. the Star Wars Hyperdrive Tends to Automaticall Shut down near a Gravity well of sufficent Mass, Such as a planet, star or Black hole (the Interdictor Star Destroyer was Designed specifically to pull ships out of Hyperspace using this method, Just parks itself where they THINK you're gonna pass and wait for you to be Forced out of Hyperspace somewhere Nearby it, and yes that thing is Cannon, it showed up in Rebels)
2. a Ship does not Carry the Inertia of it's Relative Speed when it's in Hyperspace When it re-enters Normal space. think of Hyperspace as More of a Shortcut to your Destination though a Space where Distances are Compressed. Kinda Like taking an Express Elevator rather than Taking the Stairs that Wind around it, the two don't Interact with each other despite going to the same places and you don't Expect the elevator to Explode through the Roof Just because it WAS moving fast a Moment ago.
3. the Hyperspace Ram Only works Short Range, In the Space where your Ship is still Accelerating and Being Pulled into Hyperspace, during that Less than a second when your Ship is Still Somewhat Solid... To use that Elevator Analogy from earlier, if you wanna Grab someone Standing outside the Elevator to use the Force of the Elevator to Smash em against the Ceiling, you're gonna need to Stick your Arm out the Open door BEFORE it Starts Rising while it's Still on his Floor, No point in trying to do it after you've already Got the elevator at top speed Past the 5th Floor of it's Ride, even if there's someone else at that Level...
The fastest hyper drive speed that I can recall was in one of the volumes of the original Thrawn Trilogy.
If I remember correctly, Mara Jade was imprisoned on a Victory-class Star Destroyer in which she noted from the vibration/throb from the engines it was moving at near it's maximum speed of 700 LY-ph.
there was a living starship called Jabitha with a class 1 hyperdrive, but when piloted by anakin, was overclocked to a 0.4 class via the force. fastest hyperdrive in legends
The heart of gold makes even star wars look slow, as the infinite improbability drive allows them to just suddenly appear at any point they want in the universe instantly.
And yet is that used a lot?
@@HolyknightVader999 Certainly, especially in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy series, but the very nature of the drive means that it can be, is, and also is not in an infinite amount of universes (including your favourite one) just with an infinitely small probability of arriving there. To wit, it's technically not as if it even moved- it simply appears at the destination as if it were already there.
@@sunshadow7XK So it's more of a portal device to other worlds? Gotcha.
@@HolyknightVader999 Not really a portal. More like, a teleporter. Although regardless the trip is always hell. Even if the travel time is 10 seconds it might feel like hours or even years and while that time passes you see & experience maddening things.
@@HolyknightVader999 the infinite improbability drive calculates how improbable it would be for your ship to suddenly vanish and reappear in the location you desire to go. once it calculated the exact improbability, the drive would begin generating improbability. as soon as it ramps up to infinite improbability, it passes through all existing points in all conceivable universes, and you just have to use the previously calculated improbability to tell it to stop there. sadly the drive can only generate improbability figures for one improbable event at a time, so if its busy calculating the chances of a hot cup of tea appearing in front of you, then it wont be much help doing anything else until its done, but at least you wont have to bother with all the tedious mucking about in hyperspace
The Enterprise in the ST - TOS episode "Obsession" travelled over 1000 ly's in only 24 hours. And in the episode That Which Survives also travels almost 1000 light years at similarly insane speeds!!
"last jedi finaly gives" kessel run " am i a joke to you"
The issue with Geonosis/Tatooine is probably just because they needed it to seem like two separate systems at the scale of the map. The icons are likely more than a parsec in diameter.
That's a lot of words to say "both Star Wars and Star Trek never adhere to any previously established in-universe rules and there is zero plausibility nor continuity to their respective fictional laws of nature and technology".
I think slipstream or transwarp is hyperspace in Star Trek
It would take voyager 8 hours to get home lmao 😂
ya star trek has transwarp which is their version of hyperspace
Yes and No, Transwarp works with Lanes, like your traditional Hyperdrive.
Thats why the Borg needed the Unimatrix Complex hich served as a "Hub"
You need Start and Endpoints and you could access those Tunnels or Lanes just with the Transwarp Drive.
Then theres Warp 10, which is the "everywhere and nowhere" thing.
Hyperspace is the actual Term used in Star Trek.
They "travel" through Hyperspace or Subspace even though they still travel through normal Spacetime, its just a term they use for that.
Slipstream is again a different story, but is similar to Transwarp.
You simply cant compare those things :D
Transwarp was a combination of warp drive and transporter tech that caused a ship to "fall" into a transporter beam directed in front of the ship during warp speeds. It caused the upper reaches of speeds to hit up to warp 15 in extreme cases but was terribly unreliable. It didn't really work in any capacity until the end of Next Generation when warp 13 was typical. Going much faster than that was never really played upon in any series that I can recall.
The Star Wars hyperspace was more like a wormhole generator using traffic lanes. You don't punch hyperspace without coordinates due to the fact that shields don't work and running in to something was instant death.
In Star Trek you can move at warp speed in any direction in three dimensions but in Star Wars it's more like taking the Interstate Highway system, eventually no matter how straight you go you'll eventually have to slow down and make a turn somewhere.
You do realize you made the Voyager speed able to do 70,000 light years in less than 13 years instead of the Canon 75 years?
I think the 75 years is at a cruising speed of warp 5 or 6. I think I saw somewhere that the warp rating of a ship is what it can maintain for an extended, but not indefinite, time. Somewhere in the vicinity of 12-48 hours or something like that. It has a higher speed, but maintaining the maximum too long (less than an hour😲) causes permanent damage to the engines.
@@MurraySevern_of_Australia Thank you that's a good point, but that still means they would take longer than 75 years then 13.
Janway states at maximum warp speed, now I'm not denying she probably doesn't mean at 24/7 but still picked
75 years was an upper limit for their own tech. The reason it's done in so much less time is shortcuts through other technologies, wormholes etc.
That's cute. In SW, that's what's called a short bus ride.
This is why, in the Sci-Fi series I'm writing, I make calculations like this while I'm writing. Just for people like this. 🤣
(Top speed in my universe is 30,000c)
Mit Whit Gaming Nice to see someone else who wants to keep their universe as consistent as possible. Although your FTL is much faster than mine (Alcubierre Drive, max speed 2000c).
@@ARandomCogboi Ya, I wanted my characters to be able to cross 10,000 light years in 6 months, so that they could be used in any part of my fictional empire.
Mit Whit Gaming nice. I build everything in my universe around the idea of a war that has lasted hundreds of years (and would probably continue for that long), and to make that concept much more painful, I made the Tellurian Empire (Humans from Earth, the good guys) big enough that it would still take years to cross it. Also, there is no FTL communication in my universe. Messages either have to be carried aboard ship of travel for millennia through space, so that the family of a soldier lost in battle might not even know he died until years later. It’s really dark, I know. ;)
I'm working on a universe where around 250,000c is the top, but more than 80% of the MilkyWay is the backdrop so it still takes time to get anywhere. Actually using a mix of hyperspace from Babylon 5 with a form of CDP to accelerate once in hyperspace with this being the only time that max can be reached. A lower form of CDP limited to around 1500c is used while in planetary systems to reduce the risk of possible spatial disruptions caused by higher end propulsion. Trying to use science, and avoid techno babble where I can to focus on characters and plot. lol
AvengerBB1 Interesting. My fictional Empire just uses its Warp drive for STL, only using its actual thrusters when in planetary orbit (or when their Warp ring is damaged). That’s most likely how it would be done in real life, and I’m trying to keep everything as hard Sci-Fi as possible.
I remember in Legends canon saying how a ship could travel across the galaxy in about 2 weeks time, so this puts that in stark contrast.
I think your giving SW writers far more credit than they deserve. I doubt accurate distances even entered their tiny minds.
Wars and Trek speeds, weapons, numbers have always been based on plot requirements. I love both :-)
Spore drive was chad it could single handily cancelled Star Trek voyager to one episode
This isn’t really related but I love the design of the resistance shuttle. It’s just a nice little compact ship, that also has a hyperdrive! It would definitely be a ship I would want to have in Star Wars.
That four parsec line actually means option 3: the writers had no idea what the fuck they were talking about and just threw some techno jargon into the script, then had the map illustrators make something that looks impressive without realizing it utterly shatters whatever canon you prefer
I remember that in the old Expanded Universe novel, Dark Force Rising, we were given an exact speed for hyperdrive, or at least relative to one ship and hyperdrive rating. In that novel, Mara Jade notes that a Victory Class Star Destroyer that was redlining its engines all the way to maximum could reach 0.5 past lightspeed. In doing so, it was covering 127 lightyears per hour. Assuming a constant speed, that would allow a ship going that fast to cover the 70,000 lightyear journey of Voyager in a touch under 23 days. Still blisteringly fast when compared to Star Trek speeds, but absolutely standing still when compared to the speeds necessary to pull off the Canto Bite plan.
The Disney Craptastic Sequel Trilogy ignored every bit of lore, canon or legend, so, a terrible choice to use it.
2:24 only if they use a few wormholes, borg transwarp network, and an enhanced engine. More like 8 years without them
Henry: *Makes incredible videos with impressive technicality.*
Also Henry: *Uses The Last Jedi for technical details... The one where turbolaser bolts arc in space like they were cannonballs in Earth...*
Yeah, TLJ is probably the worst source for technical details. Like, the Finn-Rose collision, it just doesn't make sense unless Rose is a force user who can bend space and time to her will which would explain the round trip much better, come to think of it!
To be fair, it's all we got in canon.
I read somewhere (may have been a break down of slipspace on a Halo centric forum, can't remember) that compared ftl and stl travel as if the galaxy were a ball of yarn. travel in real space followed the main yarn, hyperspace were the individual threads that made of the main strand, and all the empty space in the ball was slip space. The hyper lanes were still present in real space, but needed a hyperdrive to access them. And courses had to be plotted along these specific lanes, and ships were not able to deviate from them without weird shit happening. Such as coming out of hyperspace at a location far from where you intended. Where as slip space traveled in the dimensions between physical and hyperspace. More direct routes could be "plotted" but navigation was imprecise, and you could drop out millions of kilometers from your intended destination.
As for speeds in SW vs ST. I was always under the impression that warp drives could only sustain warp speeds for a limited time. The slower the speed, the longer you could stay at warp, and the father you could travel. Where as with hyper drives, your trip was determined by your astrogation computer, hyperspace lane data, and fuel. With most ships only being able to plot out so many jumps before having to recalculate. So, if you could get from points a to b to c faster, you could plot d, e and f sooner. Hyperspace travel depended greatly upon how fast your ship could go once in hyperspace, as the faster you went the less effect gravity shadows had on your ships plotted route. Hense why the Kessel run was measured in parsecs rather than time (yes, I know, a retcon)
Point of order - I remember reading the writers scaled the Intrepid-class warp drive so that Voyager could travel 1,000 light years in 1 year, thus their 70k LY trip was described as 70 year journey. You're probably using their max possible speed here instead of their sustainable cruising speed.
Hmmm...nope.
On the original novel of the first movie we are told that "Hyperspace" is another dimension with different rules than those of the regular "Space".
A ship that enters "Hyperspace" needs NOT to be faster,but better at navigation,Han Solo explains to Luke that precise navigation is the key to succesful space travel in their universe.
Just think about it,how much time did they spent on the voyage from Tatooine to Alderaan?
Luke learned the basics to use the Lightsaber (without losing a limb) and became friend to both Han and Chewbacca (to the point of knowing that Han could be lured into helping a "Rich" princess on distress)
It was not a few moments.
Ok so if hyper space is another dimension, how does admiral Holdo take a star ship going into hyperspace and ram a star ship that's not in hyper space?
Considering hyperspace as an alternate dimension, it still takes time to travel into it. Therefore, there will be a brief moment at which the ship is half in and half out, at which it will appear to be in realspace travelling at near lightspeed. Factoring a sufficient mass shadow between two large ships (and these two were hecking massive), they could collide in that window.
What I've learned from this channel:
The Last Jedi has done wonders for explaining parts of the Star Wars universe,
but has shredded apart the storyline faster than Snoke was cut down.
Shredded the storyline?
EC Henry has defended aspects of the story as well though
Am I going to have to repeat what millions of people have already said?
Okay then. Yes, EC Henry has defended parts of the story and listed his complaints with parts of the story. Here's the thing: for a movie to split its fanbase this 50/50 is very strange... And I think the reason is that scene by scene, this movie is pretty fun. The Rey and Ren Vs the guards' fight was really cool, the battle between Fin, Rose, and Captain Phasma was pretty cool, the salt planet battle was really cool, and the lightspeed ram was fucking stunning. But if you look at the movie as a whole, it is pretty messy, just all over the place, with some big storytelling flaws. It has many things that hardcore fans just fucking hate. It has a lot of problems that Star Wars Episode 9 will certainly have some difficulty solving. It's just that some things that people think are problems are actually solutions.
@@phantomkitten73
I suggest giving this a watch czcams.com/video/w1VeOlIDD9o/video.html
I disagree. I've been a lifelong fan of the franchise and I enjoyed The Last Jedi both scene-by-scene and as a whole. The scenes are cool, but the movie is, in my opinion, good because there is a theme being built up and expanded as the story goes along.
OR, say it with me. "DISNEY FUCKED IT UP."
Digest. Repeat.
It's Disney, not known for it's accuracy in continuity.
The big problem with hyperspace though is it's very limited in it's use. You can only go somewhere that is already mapped, there are beacons required, and you must travel along proscribed routes, which leads to nexus points that control access, and that become strategic points that control access to further systems along the route.
The best way to think of it is as railway lines, you can travel very fast but only via predetermined paths.
With warp drive you can go anywhere you want, even if no one had been there ever. You can use it to go "cross country" and outflank others, and to move short distances to get in a better position (The only limitations on it are you can't use it in atmosphere). It's versatile.
Think of it as a very rugged 4WD or maybe even tracked vehicle. Can go anywhere it wants via any route, and to hell with traffic directions. Militarily it can also be used for drive by's, which is hard to pull off from a train.
So hyperspace is better strategically (and only in predeveloped paths), but warp travel is far far superior tactically, and is advancing to become better strategically as speed increases and increases and increases till eventually 29th century Federation ships can arrive before they left. In 400 years Star Wars vessels might be a little bit faster, but then considering the fastest ship is a modified freighter that is at least 90 years old that might not be the case.
But for all those Star Wars fanboys that have to always be the best, remember this, Star Trek has time travel, even in the time of Kirk. So since the timelines don't interact he could just go back to before Anakin was conceived and kill his mother. But knowing Kirk, he'd probably seduce her instead, which is how this whole mess got started.*
[* I didn't come up with this, I just shamelessly stole it. Well, a little guilt, but I still knicked it.]
The hyperdrives in Stargate circumvent this problem by having better navigation sensors and their ships phase shift the moment they enter preventing accidental ramming of solid matter.
Actually they do somewhat of same thing with warp. One thing that is not mentioned much is that space flight, in what every universe you are in is that you are never actually flying. No matter where you are in space, you are in the Hill Sphere influence of some gravitational body, be it a planet or galactic mass. You are always orbiting something. This means that you have to have accurate stapmaps to plan. When the captain says "lay in a course" that is exactly what they are doing, albeit the computer plots the course base on the input, but it is the same thing. A good example of this is in Star Trek Generations where data and picard are in the astromectrics lab (starmap room) and you can see the effect that the destruction of the star made several ships replot their warp trajectories. And this is why I love star trek... there is so much going on behind the scenes that most laymen have no clue about.
lol that last part
Unmapped hyperspace jumps are possible in Star Wars, they're just not used unless in an emergency because mapped hyperspace lanes are usually the safest routes to a given destination. It's like going offroad vs taking the highway, one is clearly safer and more practical than the other. [As a matter of fact, what many call the worst scene in The Last Jedi is an unmapped hyperspace jump.]
"A rinky-dink shuttle in Star Wars is almost 14,000 times faster than a cutting-edge vessel in Star Trek."
Everyone liked that.
29th century Star Trek vessels can casually time travel anywhere. ::shrugs::
@@Acrosurge 33th century federation is a federation of Q
@@Acrosurge a time lord ?
no it ridiculed
Star Wars takes place in a micro galaxy.
In the Timothy Zahn "Heir to the Empire" novels there was a conversation that mentioned hyperspace speeds. It was something like "this ship moves xx lightyears per hour but this ship is xx lightyears per hour." Using the West End Games RPG books for reference, which was something a lot of authors were doing back then as well, I looked up the game mechanics for Star Destroyers and the Millennium Falcon and from there began to crunch the numbers. I seem to recall my math (which is more than certainly flawed) indicated that the Falcon could travel over 1 million times the speed of light.
In the starwars d20 rpg, they explained hyperdrive classifications as how much you multiply the base travel time by.
So if the distance between 2 points is 5 hours of travel, a class 1 drive will do it in 5 hours, and an class 4 drive in 20 hours. This makes the Falcon's .5 drive something of an anachronism, since afaik it's the only known ship with a .5 installed.
I always thought it was something of a silly system, but eh, rpgs.
You have a ship that goes that fast why not just put everyone in that ship, do a couple of round trips and everyone is safe.
-Plinkett
Plinkett’s arguments are funny, but usually easy to refute. Assuming that this shuttle is their only option for faster-than-light escape, less than 20 hours is hardly enough time to offload 400 people. It can probably hold only 5 or so people if they’re squeezed in, which means we’re looking at 160 total hyperspace jumps. Each jump (including loading and unloading) would need to last shorter than 7 minutes. Even if we double or triple the evacuation capacity, it’s a longshot. Poe and Holdo both probably figured their respective plans were better than this alternative.
Not to mention the ship would have to steal fuel from the Raddus, shortening time left (not by much, probably), and, assuming such a thing is true, the Resistance pod's hyperdrive may need a cooldown period that lasts longer than seven minutes.
Couldn't you just go to the gambling planet steal a faster than light ship or 2 that could accommodate everyone? Ray stole the Millenium Falcon like it was a bike. That's the problem, once you escape from being chased there are numerous logical things you can do that is better for changing the outcome than hack the enemy that would be way more satisfying to the audience.
That's a good idea, but it seems easier said than done. Security on Canto Bight is probably better than it is at Niima Outpost. DJ was able to steal a space yacht because he's a master thief.
@@forfluf you have to assume that a single shuttle coming and going once is harder to miss than a small fleet coming directly to the pursued ships and leaving again. The Radus was very well shielded and able to take the extreme range shots, likely a random collection of ships wouldn't fare as well. The MSD is STILL able to track ships through hyperspace. It really doesnt matter if they swap ships mid chase.
Holdos plan to evacuate the ships and cover their escape in secret is probably the best plan available that doesn't just prolong the chase and would have worked if they were jot ratted out by the hacker.
This is what I love about the Honorverse book series by David Weber - it's consistent. During battle or just when moving in system, you constantly read the numbers. "The distance is X and with acceleration Y it will take us Z hours with decelartion to 0" or the same for missiles. When you actually punch all these number to calculator, they match up. I'm fan o mathematical accuracy everywhere so I can't speak up for casual reader, but to me this makes those books so believable...
No, Honorverse runs on asspulls that try to hide behind the numbers. See all the magical techs they pull out of their behind, despite being tiny one star state that somehow can outresearch Haven with hundreds of worlds (or League with tens of thousands). Technology doesn't work that way, even if for some magical reason Haven couldn't match the cutting edge tech, they could use their material advantage to circumvent this with laughable ease. See Soviet T-72, tank that matched the Abrams much thicker armor by being smaller (and replacing crew members with machinery) to keep similar armor thickness while being 20 tons lighter by presenting much smaller, more efficient profile. Why they keep trying to make the same ships with less instead of thinking out of the box (building megadreadnoughts if size is so good?) I have no idea.
Also, that lazy jerk can't even keep numbers straight. At the start, Haven is 20-30% behind in tech compared to protagonists. 6 books later, their tech is better by 50%, yet somehow isn't even at the protagonist starting level from book one despite 50 >>> 20. Go figure. And there are tons of examples like that...
@@KuK137 What do you mean that the T-72 matched the Abram's armor? Like in effective protection or what? Also the physical size of armor isn't so much an issue on modern tanks as the weight it takes up, Abrams tanks use ceramics which weigh less than their steel counter parts but take up more space. I don't think the T-72 is a good comparison here though, the T-90 series which is based on the same hull anyways would be a better comparison since it's the one that's actually being upgraded to keep up with the Abrams series. The T-90MS and M1A2 SEP v3 are roughly equal on most factors.
I also remember in TCW a Venator travels from Mon Cala to Naboo to take on Gungan reinforcements, and returns in the span of less than a day
Voyager can’t even go past Warp 10 without turning its crew into discount Tiktaaliks.
This only proves that The Last Jedi was carelessly written.
considering some of the shitty writing in the original trilogy, i'd say it was par for the course.
Rogue One had maybe a WORSE example, as fighting on Scarif is maybe one hour advanced, before Rebels ships arrive from nearly a third of the way round the galaxy.
Also, if a SW ship can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other in less than a day, then travel to nearby galaxies would be common. But for some reason, intergalactic travel was rare. I can only think of the "Outbound Flight Project" in Legends where several Dreadnaughts attempted but failed to leave the galaxy.
Supposedly, something about hyperspace being harder to navigate outside of known space, or beyond the galaxy itself.
@@jimdigitalvideo the new cannon still holds true that there is some sort of field or something around the galaxy that makes hyperspace travel there impossible. As of now the events of out bound flight are believed to still be cannon.
What about Borg Transwarp and Quantum Slipstream? Are those about on par with Hyperspace?
Last I checked, Quantum Slipstream is exactly the Star Trek equivalent down to the effects.
Only became widespread by 2409
I liked the idea of quantum slipstream because it was a great way for
Star Trek to move forward (if you forgive the pun) and perhaps in later series set after the TNG era it would have been a great way of moving the final frontier out of the Milky Way.
Patrick Lloyd But some ships had it in 2381/2382, although a very small number of Federation ships that is.(in the Voyager re-launch novels)
Transwarp conduits and also Subspace corridors... look, ultimately these two franchises inhabit completely different universes. Complete with different physics. Star Trek is modeled closer to what ours is, whereas Star Wars is Space Fantasy. Odd that Star Trek ended up with the space elves though. As far as tech goes, I'd say the SW galaxy is obviously more homogenous in terms of tech level. In fact it seems actually quite stagnant. Yes they keep on slapping together bigger and bigger planet killers... I mean seriously, the empire must honestly employ the most underendowed leadership in existence, but they don't really progress massively. Whereas with ST there is a definite developmental curve, and small views into the future showing levels of tech that would eventually surpass those of the SW universe. I'm not talking Q here, but I am talking temporal ships etc.
It really is quite pointless to try and measure them against each other. When all you have is the writer team's imagination, one-up-manship becomes as easy as... "My Superduperdeluxe Stardestroyer with upsized turbo lasers can blow a hole through a star, so your federation vessels don't stand a chance... so, so... so I win!!!"
I just checked and a transwarp hub's corridor can transport a ship to the Andromeda Galaxy in 4.17 hours,going 5259600000c
Eight hours to go to the edge of a Galaxy (phft)How about half of that,to another one.
In Edge of the Empire, specifically the Fly Casual sourcebook, then it gives us a table of example departure planets and destination planets, and the amount of time (in days) it would take to get from Point A to Point B, using a Class 1 Hyperdrive. One of the shortest jumps possible is from Duro to Corellia. This is listed as a trip of 0.5 days, or 12 hours. According to the math provided in TLJ, then this would be the time needed to cross the span of the entire galaxy. These two simply cannot be reconciled at all. Furthermore, a trip from Corellia to Coruscant using a Class 1 Hyperdrive takes 1.5 days. Any inconsistencies between the two are easily explained in how it's not a straight jump from location A to location B. It takes jumping from location A to location A.1, to location A.2, to location A.3, and so on. Not to mention that you have to follow certain hyperlanes if you want to maximize your likelihood of actually getting there rather than dying in a random supernova.
Simply put, Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams decided to give specific times for the movies, and so we get extreme information like this that is unsupported in any other materials, and even contradicted. I personally prefer the Fly Casual version of it, not just because I really don't like TLJ and TRoS, but also because it helps make the Galaxy feel larger and more vast.
my personal answer im not saying it's exact but my answer to that is that ships have different speed, scale, mass, brand, types, and engines meaning they differ in many things and that difference affects the speed each ship go for instance; CR-90 corvettes travel faster than MC-75 ships because they differ from size to speed. Like what I said, ships are not same because they are uniquely made. But dont judge me because that's just my opinion
You're forgetting about the hyperdrive class rating. Not all ships have the same class. The venator for example had a class 1 hyperdrive, and the falcon has a class .5 hyperdrive.
Bruh
@@FormerBunsenBurner what? Just say'in
He did mention the class of drive so idk what your on about
@@LeePelagius honestly I can't remember remember what the video was about. So I can't tell you what I was thinking.
@@spunkychops7484 forgot what it was about. And who uses their fathers lube?
In some legends source it's stated that a class 2 would take 2 weeks to cross the Hydian Way (120k+ lightyears).
I remember reading in a star wars novel somewhere back in the day and remember something about crossing the majority of the galaxy in 18 hours
It's a spiral galaxy, so if we apply some IRL logic to it, what the average long distance trip would look like is a near (relative) vertical jump to the edge of the the galactic plane, where there's considerably less mass in your way, then a series of relatively straight shots to line up "above" your target system and then another vertical jump back down into the thick of the galactic plane.
I love the videos of yours that involve calculations like these, great one
His calculations are not great. The full idea of Star Trek voyager is that they are stuck in a quadrant of the galaxy and takes a lifetime to return. Then the idea that a spaceship in Star Trek can run that distance in 1.5 years make no sense.
The Intrepid class isn't really that slow even compared to hyperspace. Its quantum slipstream engine grants it the ability to cross one quarter of the galaxy in mere minutes.
And then for Star Trek other FTL methods as fast or even faster than Hyperpace are: Transwarp drive, Infinite drive, Iconian gates and the tought drive.
according to EC Henry's other video, quantum slipstream travels 0.82 ly in 10 seconds
Don't forget about the new spore drive in St Discovery :)
And how often did you see quantum slipstream, transwarp and so in the show?
It just does not make sense to use rare modes of travel for comparison. (Also warp speed can vary by quite a bit depending on where you look in Star Trek)
I had already figured that hyperspace travel was faster than warp on my own, but didn't know it was *that* much faster.
I'm a purist, and would only use the distance from Tattooine to Alderran as the basis. Disney can't Star Wars well enough to be considered a worthy standard for comparison.
The Star Wars Galaxy is 120,000 Light-years across, not 100,000. This changes your math a bit, still, good work.
And the fact you can't fly in a straight line...you can, but not a good idea.
*Light Speed is too slow. We need to straight to... LUDICROUS SPEED*
I like how this stuff has always served the settings better. Star Wars is theatrical, movie-based, needs to get places in a timely fashion inside of 90-120 minutes. Star Trek has seasons, 45 minutes at a time, you can spend a long time having important speeches and staff meetings on the way.
on the other hand, star trek has way stronger weapons, while star wars uses straight-up lasers.. because they don't have fancy omnipowerful shields, they are just naked in space, risking their greebles when they get hit. because that's also better for a movie, and it allows the death star to be really special. while Trek's powerful weapons shields allow the _Borg_ to be really special, by allowing them to just shrug everything off and adapt.
0:47 even as far back as Empire Strikes Back we see how fast the Empire was able to respond to Hoth. Han and Chewbacca destroy the probe droid, with the same 24-36 hours Luke is lost and captured by the Wampa and found by Han. The Empire is there. So, either it was extreme good fortune that Vader and his ships were very close, or hyperspace travel is insanely fast. This happens a lot in Star Wars Rebels too: the First Order locates the Colossus then the First Order are there practically immediately.
And the TARDIS is faster still
What this is telling me, is not that we have an actual speed for hyperspeed, but that Disney ruined yet another aspect of Star Wars with their incompetent script writing.
Well, arguably it had been going that sort of direction since Episode 3, with the very fast implied journey the Emperor made to Mustafar, @Will Andersen . Still, I share the frustration. And TROS makes it even worse.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Legends " Atlas to the Galaxy," shows the location of Mustafar from the Core worlds, more or less measure to being within two to three days worth of hyperspace travel. Due to the pacing of the movie and it's action fight scenes, both saber fights happen at the same time for the film. In RPG table top, Yoda sends off Kennobi and goes to fight the Emperor. Emperor runs off Yoda and uses the skill Farseeing to quick see Anakin's future, then goes to rescue Vader. Few days later Anakin gets his legs cut out from under him and left to burn, and the Emperor saves him.
From a certain point of view, from following the pacing of the Clone War novels and the table top RPG, the Emperor could have warn Anakin days in advance that Kennobi was going to pop up on Anakin but didn't warn him. Just goes to show how much and how big of a dick the Emperor was.
As for the Atlas of the Galaxy grid square map, hyperdrive rating system of class: 1, covers about 5,000 light year per hour/ one sq. faster due to Astrogation computer skill checks and having the proper space lanes. Fun note KOTOR/ Saga 4e edition RPG which takes place 3,000 the Clone Wars, Class 2 was their class: 0.5, so in one regard it took a few thousand years to get 5,000ly per 4hours down to 1hr of travel time. And if you played the numbers right with the RPG any ship with enough computers could pull off one sq/ 5,000ly in 5 to 10 minutes of travel time. But you will need like fifty astro mech/ R2-D2 to do so, and the Falcon only has four droid brains running his flight computer.
My last RPG shop was full of wargaming math nerds.
@@krispalermo8133 Yes, for the Essential Atlas 5000 to 5200 LY per square is about right (depends if the whole 23 by 23 grid covers a 100,000 or 120,000 LY diameter, depending on references) but the way the film is shot, it's hard to believe Palpatine takes more than a few hours to get to Mustafar.
Myself, I tend to average a class one hyperdrive at about 6000 to 7000 LY/ph, with the Falcon able to do twice that, but that's obviously rather loose.
Book canon is much different. Ambush at Corellia puts the flight from Coruscant to Corellia at about 2.5 days on the Millennium Falcon, one of the fastest ships out there. Both planets are in the core, with Corellia slightly more than a quarter spin away and on a major hyperspace "highway". Han was taking his time because it was vacation with Leia and the kids, but still going to be longer than a day. Using that estimate and the distance in your video, no less than a week 1 way would be my estimation.
In the original trilogy and in the prequels, Lucas was careful not to mention time or to quantify power levels of shields or weapons. Those things are intentionally vague, because drawing attention to them would create inconsistencies and distract from the plot and characters. The Disney trilogy is catastrophically constructed. You can’t take the numbers quoted seriously, regardless of them owning the legal rights to canon.
Rian Johnson got nominated for best screenwriting but didn't specify how fast hyperspeed is just like George Lucas never did? What an awful writer!!! :(((
I've been thinking about this and I think I've wrapped my head around how hyperdrive works. Basically, a hyperdrive drags tachyons out of hyperspace and into realspace. Tachyons are hyper-accelerated superlight particles that can't travel below lightspeed. Being forced into realspace isn't "comfortable" for them because things in realspace can't travel beyond the speed of light and so the tachyons are bumping into a bunch of stuff that slow them down so they want to spring back into hyperspace like the poles of a magnet repeling each other. When one of these tachyons springs back into hyperspace, it creates a small force which accelerates the particles around it at light speed. In other words it pushes realspace particles into hyperspace with it. The hyperdrive suspends each of these tachyons in some sort of field (magnetic?) until it's built up enough to accelerate the entire ship. This pushes the ship at lightspeed without changing its mass or energy, basically cheating Einstein.
Now comes the part about hyperspace. Imagine the Dune Sea, tons of hills and valleys everywhere. Now imagine you want to get from one dune to the next. You could either take your bantha up and down through the hills and valleys between you and your destination or you could rig your speeder to move fast enough that you skip over the hills like a stone over water. The first option would take significantly longer because you have further to travel. In Star Wars, when you move faster than light you basically "skip off" of space time, gliding over the valleys and landing on the hills. This is why hyperspace lanes are calculated to avoid massive objects like stars. It's not that you'd collide with the star but fall into it's mass shadow.
Now I could be wrong. One area I'm unsure of is the "valleys" of this metaphor. Sure, you could drop out of hyperspace easily. Just purge the tachyon field and you'd lose momentum and fall back into realspace. But jumping back into hyperspace is the hard part. See, if I'm correct you'd have to jump the big H in a sort of gravitational sweet stop. I imagine that as mass bends spacetime there's a sort of crest that forms at a certain distance. It would be this spacetime crest that you're jumping from and between. So if you don't have a crest, like in deep space, I'm not sure you'd be able to make the jump. Instead you'd just skim along the surface so to speak at lightspeed until you found a crest to jump from. Then again, this could be another consideration when plotting routes and hyperspace lanes.
I've known SW FTL is way faster than ST FTL, but this is the first time I've seen a clear demonstration. Thanx!
One thing that should be noted about hyperspace travel, it is limited to "hyperspace lanes" so ships can't just go anywhere they want. It's why civilizations in the Star Wars universe tend to cluster around these hyperspace lanes.
See? Star Trek is superior to the point they didn't even go overkill with speed.
**grabs popcorn**
Yeeea, the traveler isn’t fast at all.
You where expecting a heavy discussion in this comment section but you got proven guilty by Q and sentenced to an eternity of blankness
With the twisting routes they take through hyperspace it could be possible that speeding up and slowing down at certain points in the journey is necessary. If the "tunnels" we see on screen already exist (in subspace maybe, is that a thing in Star Wars?) and the ships just navigate them then they might have to slow down for turns and such 🤔
Subspace = dimension "below" normal space / Hyperspace = dimension "above" normal space
So a trip through well-mapped hyperspace routes should go by quickly, but explore and go into unmapped areas, the ships would move considerably slower, lest the astromech navigates them into a black hole's gravity well...
Well, do they ever explain what Hyperspace is in SW or how it works? The real world hypothesis is that Hyperspace is basically a fifth dimension of space and that, assuming 3D space is folded somewhat in the fifth dimension, there should be shortcuts between certain points in 3D space. If that's what's happening in SW, then how long it takes to get from one system to another world depend greatly upon where the 5D wrinkles are. Maybe the fastest shortcut between Tatooine and Coruscant takes 2 days to traverse, but if the Galaxy folded around entirely in 5D space (think a C shape), the journey depicted in Last Jedi might only take 5 hours.
Also, I like the idea that they might be speeding up and slowing down. That would explain why it takes them 3 minutes to travel the last 4 parsecs. But that would seem to fit more with a view of them just going really fast rather than traversing 5D shortcuts. Thoughts? Does any official or EU source give more credence to one of those views?
Any more on Kaluza Klein theory perhaps? Ripples in the fifth dimension...
The Science of Interstellar book by Kip Thorne was also interesting.
Referring to The last jedi.
To quote Rich evans
"you know what it was?...stupid!"
When Finn says "Four parsecs to go," I'm assuming he means within hyperspace. I'm also assuming that distances in hyperspace are not the same as distances within normal space. FTL travel in Star Wars doesn't have a great canonical technical explanation, but based on everything we've seen, I assume that when starships enter hyperspace, they aren't just traveling fast, they are in an entirely different plane of existence that allows their normal propulsion to move them through far greater distances in shorter amounts of time. I also think it's purposely nebulous so that the technicality of it doesn't distract from storytelling, but I would accept an explanation that hyperspace distances and velocities have NOTHING to do with the departure and arrival points in normal space. That there are hyperspace threads and lanes throughout the galaxy and navigating them is not at all related to a Euclidean understanding of three dimensional space. Also, that would explain why the "Unknown Regions" remain largely uncharted. There are fewer hyperspace lanes that go there or some upper dimensional anomalies make the hyperspace in that part of the galaxy much harder to navigate.
Wonder how this compares to Mass Effect FTL and also when using the arrays.
Yea from what we are told in the games relay travel is almost instant (the evidence being when Shepard unlocked the citadel relay at the end of ME1 and the alliance jumped in almost instantly) so relay travel is incredibly fast especially between primary relays that can be more than half a galaxy apart. I think the real limiting factor is travailing at FTL (14ly per day for most ships, Reapers were around 30) between relays in system (I know the game only shows one relay on the map but from what we have hear in game and the codex is that primary relays only go to one other paired primary relay, only secondary relays can go to multiple destinations and the distance they can cover is substantially smaller) so having to travel across a system or to another system in a cluster to get to the next relay on your journey would be where the real travel time would accumulate.
haha sorry that turned into a lot more text than I expected.
Basically, travel between primary relays is instant. They're locked into each other and create a perpetual field of Mass Effect that lowers the mass of objects inside infinitely so that engines are able to push their crafts to the absolute theoretical limit. Ships enter, burn for a few seconds to accelerate, turn around and burn the opposite way to decelerate, and then finally flip back to a "forward" face and exit the relay at a survivable speed. This happens in seconds. Secondary relays connect to several other relays on a network and can't maintain the same Mass Effect as the primary relays, so while mass is significantly lower, it's not enough to reach the top speeds that one could reach in a primary relay. Secondary relay trips take several hours to a few days based on in-game time frames, like the jump between the Omega-4 and the Collector base taking I believe it's 4 hours, or long enough for some crew on the Normandy to have a romantic encounter.
Yea, I'm thinking that trying to ascribe Newtonian physics to the Star Wars universe is an exercise in futility.
According to George Lucas, Pablo Hidalgo, Dave Filoni, and Irvin Kirshner, Star Wars isn't even, "Sci-fi."
During a, "Behind the scenes/Making of The Empire Strikes Back," documentary, Irvin Kirshner described it as a, "Science Fantasy."
And even mentioned that it would be mostly a waste of time, to attempt to attach our Earthly notions of physics.
(Not that that would ever stop the fandom from trying, of course.)
You could say, that since it's a pretty well known fact that even reaching any significant percentage of the speed of light is physically impossible lol its probably best to not spend too many brain cells on trying to reconcile distances and time scales in a fictional universe.
But, entertaining video nonetheless!!!👍
You can still make a practical estimates, like a ship crosses the galaxy in x hours so effective speed is therefore X, even if the mechanics involved in how they do it are fantastical
Star Trek is even more of a space fantasy since the technobabble isn't consistent and you have a walking plot device in the form of Q. At least with a Force-sensitive, there's limits to what they can do, and each piece of SW tech has a defined purpose.
I first noticed this during the Prequils. In the ship cutaway book there is information on the Venator that includes its operational range before refueling listed in lightyears...this value is more than double the distance of the return trip Voyager stated would take 95yrs in its first 2 episodes. In other words the Venator (which is regularly seen being refueled) is running missions at ranges StarTrek would need generation ships to reach even with warp drive.
I have a theory, that the mass of the ships also has something to do with the speed; as more massive ships do take a lot of time; ... played Empire at War recently, and noticed the Death Star, takes a lot of time to move through hyperspace lanes, being a moon sized station thing, its own mass may slug it a lot... in the case of the resistance Pod, being the "motor piece" of a larger vehicle, it might be overpowered, for its tiny size, resulting in an unusually fast little thing... (i'd say, sending little transports like this through all the galaxy, woul've saved a lot of personel, (i'd bet there could be a hundred little stories involving the escape of different resistance crew members through these vehicles))
My god I wish my life was so simple and secure that I could spend the time it takes to actually ponder things like this. What a world it would be. It’s nice to see some one gets to. Lol
How can a galactic map be accurate if everything in the galaxy is moving along different axes at different rates of speed?
Also, what does God need with a starship?
Lol, awesome comment!
I think another good point we get is from the Clone Wars. In season 1 episode 3 "Shadow of Malevolence" we see the effects of nebulas on hyperspace travel. We also see proof that hyperspace travel isn't always consistent. As Grievous complains about the speed a droid responds with the fact that they had to chart a complex course around the nebula and that it'll take multiple parsecs to get there.
In Because Science Kyle did a great video on how basically Han's speech about how tricky is to "travel through hyperspace" is completely wrong. Kyle uses real science to point out how no matter HOW fast you're going, the Millennium Falcon in fact COULD pick ANY random direction in space and travel basically to infinity and its chances of hitting ANYTHING are infinitesimally small. So vanishingly small, in fact, that mathematically and statistically the chances are effectively zero. That's just how far apart everything really is and how much empty space there is out there.
how do we know the Star Wars galaxy is as big as you assume it is, other than that is the estimated size of our own galaxy? maybe the map is accurate in the represented distance of Tatooine and Geonosis and the Galaxy Far Far Away is much smaller than our Milky Way? just an idea i'm surprised you didn't mention. honestly these analyses of Star Wars require a great deal of assumption as Star Wars even more than Star Trek is in service to the story and dramatic effect than scientific or technical consistency.
The Star Wars galaxy is a spiral type, meaning it's at least a few tens of thousands of lightyears across.
I'd imagine that speed in hyperspace is a factor of ship's mass relative to drive rating with respect to particle density in the lane over the distance traveled. Particle density would seem likely to enforce an upper limit assuming it acts as an opposing force against the vehicle. Those forces would increase with speed much like a car driving in the earth's atmosphere.
I have always assumed (based on what we're told vs what we're not) that baseline speed in SW hyperspace is the speed of light squared (or about 90,000,000 km/sec) divided by the engine class and reduced by a variety of factors, both static and variable. Your idea is one of them, and one I hadn't considered beyond size and/or number of hyperdrive motivators. I appreciate that quite a bit!
The extremely high speeds of Star Wars ships were established in the first movie. There's dialogue stating that the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi and the battle of Yavin occurred on the same day ("This will be a day long remembered; it has seen the end of Kenobi, it will soon see the end of the Rebellion") which means that both the Millennium Falcon and the Death Star were able to travel from the remains of Alderaan (near the galactic core) to Yavin (in the outer rim) in a matter of hours. No need to bring the Disney continuity into things.
According to trek cannon "subspace" communication travels at a speed of 52,090 times the speed of light. In Star wars they don't (or at least I don't recall) mention what type of communication they use. Perhaps folks in the starwars universe found a way to have a ship enter and travel through subspace but they just call it hyperspace? Just a thought. Then again, if they did travel that fast in star wars, what exactly are we seeing when we see ships accelerate away? Traveling that fast the ship would simply instantaneously vanish. Unlike star trek where there is a brief acceleration and bending of visual light from the warp field that gives us that stretching illusion as a ship enters warp speeds. Fun stuff to theorize about.