Why Creation Engine Isn't Starfield's Problem
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 12. 2023
- With the Xbox release of Starfield, there has been a major Starfield Engine controversy. Most people blame the creation engine for Starfield's lackluster gameplay, major glitches, and terrible mechanics. Well, today I'm going to do the impossible and defend the Creation Engine. I'm going to debunk the hate and show why Starfield's biggest problem is Bethesda themselves.
#bethesda #starfield #gaming
SUBSCRIBE for more content
/ @alexadrift
Follow me on TikTok
www.tiktok.com/@alexadrift?is...
Music Provided by FREESOUND
Used his footage, check him out.
• Fallout 4 Load Order G...
Skyrim clips used from here
• ALL Shout & Word Wall ...
Original clip. Check it out here!
• When Todd realised Sta... - Hry
Do you blame Bethesda, Creation Engine, or Obama for Starfield's shortcomings? Let me know.
Emil Pagliarulo and the lack of internal design documents.
All of the above. Especially Obama, he knows what he did.
Obama, because he gave me deadly space herpes!
Obama ruined the economy and the economy ruined Bethesda
Obama can't keep getting away with this
dont make an endless game, make a good game that people want to play endlessly
100%
AC6 is a great example.
Linear ✅️
Not endless in scope ✅️
Replayable as hell ✅️
Done on a 10th of budget ✅️
Fallout New Vegas is a good example, in my opinion.
@@lucianwong420 Fallout New Vegas is also a massive open world RPG. It is an 'endless' game, just an endless game that happens to be replayable.
@13:55 - Yeah that was the clincher for me (in terms of his argument) countless "open world" games developed years ago which still most gamers hold in high respect
“They wanted the game to be endless so they created eternal damnation” killed me
Props 🤣🤣🤣, I tell you comedy genius. I though so immediately as well-- can I steel this line? I'm give him props too lol.
Endless nothingness
Frankly, this part is the engine, it simply can't handle the procgen of No Man's Sky, Bethesda is not even the first company that tried to copy NMS, in 2016 Bioware tried the same with Mass Effect Andromeda, but they realize that it wouldn't be possible to applied NMS model in the Frostbite Engine. Bioware had to spcrap the whole game because their idea wasn't working, and guess what? Despite been a horrible Mass Effect game, Andromeda is still better than Starfield, the worlds you can land, at least doesn't feel empty and lifeless, you can see that the problem of this worlds is that they are unfinished, not repetitive, they are by all effects, handcrafted open worlds.
@@Life-IRL-ih1pcI re downloaded starfeild to do a single main mission fetch quest and realized I was waisting my time
This line was FIRE
The entire Mass Effect series had countless loading screens and annoyingly long elevator rides, but like you said, the content that lies on the other side of these pauses in gameplay is worth waiting for. I wouldn't consider the combat in any of those three games groundbreaking, they all had flaws, but the core story, character interactions, and dialogue made those games something people continue to play a decade later. While people like to say "Well, that's a different game, go play that instead then!" there's nothing inherent to Mass Effect's design that couldn't have been applied here. Your Cyberpunk example too is an even simpler example, the meta rewards for participating in radiant activities in the form of street cred offer a reason to engage with the content. And again, there's no reason Bethesda couldn't have put in a system like this.
Mass Effect is also a decade old.
Comparing Starfield to other titles only further highlights the clear lack of innovated design and nuanced systems. Starfield, in my opinion, is just the victim of inferior design choices at its core.
I was looking forward to those elevator rides in ME1 because of companion dialogues and funny news on a radio. Bethesda could give us a few radio stations when we jump to different settled systems. But that would be fun so they didn't
@@TearfulMoon Great point. Bethesda hates us and music.
Keep in mind that at the time Mass Effect was being developed, loading screens were a common occurrence and were quite expected. In this day and age years later, loading screens should have become a thing of the past, especially on next gen hardware.
No Man's Sky proves that it's entirely possible to create a space game with seamless transitions. That Bethesda didn't strive for this seamless transition achievement within Starfield during its development says only one thing. Bethesda has some serious problems within its studio.
the irony is that while its massive the scope is literally just 5 systems at the most so really they could have shortened down the explorable area and it would have given time to create more unique events and missions and more noticeable planets for us to explore
I realized once I stepped outside of New Atlantis and Akila I had seen the entire game. It made no sense that all of human civilization would be confined to like 4 settlements of about 150-250 people each. The problem with procedural generation is that smart people catch onto the smoke and mirrors and it destroys immersion.
Exactly.... They 'hand crafted' 100 planets and dispersed those assets over 1,600 planets... Just make 100 planets? Thats still so much content for us to explore. Imagine Starfield where 1 planet served as the home of civilization for humanity. One planet houses Akila, Neon, New Atlantis and Paradiso. They are just on very different places on that planet. Now theres 99 other hand crafted planets that feel relatively unexplored, each feeling unique and new when we land. We don't have to be a space explorer to play this game, we can travel between the major cities and do the content that takes place within them OR we can be a space explorer trying to solve the mysteries of the universe but you're never forced to be a space explorer if you don't want to be one. The systems in place start to look alot less shitty when you realize they are more optional if you just want to do one faction (Constellation). Space pirates and limited space travel and small outposts filled with spacers and such start to look like they make more sense. The war that took place between Akila and New Atlantis start to make alot more sense as Akila started building settlements on land that wasn't theirs. They just didn't think through this games design at all.
From what I've seen, many more negative reviews are focussing on the design flaws rather than the engine. I think that most people who are paying attention are well aware of the real problems, but perhaps the reasons for them could use more coverage. The NG+ nonsense was such a misstep that it's quite astonishing that Bethesda couldn't see it. They can blame the fans till the cows come home but they can't ignore the dwindling player count.
that’s the thing; a game can be both creatively bankrupt and technically inept. Blaming something like the creation engine for the latter is in no way an inference that it is responsible for the former as well.
and sometimes it is very small things which make a game less enjoyable. Like loading screens. Which are not entirely a design decision.
Yeah most people are not blaming the engine but a complete lack of creativity and terrible design. The game ran fine for me but the game is so bad I rushed through to finish it and uninstalled.
The idea to replay the game again itself is not bad. Its the way it was implemented. There is not nearly enough chance to alter the future universes by changing its outcome and unlocking new mechanics. A game that did this idea well in a way was Everspace 1, where restarting (after death) allowed the player to approach the game in new ways.
@@vast634 Why would you want to do the same things over and over? If you primarily enjoy the game as a shooter I can see some purpose, but otherwise I can't see any at all. It's a very lazy way of trying to get people playing forever and it won't work, however it's implemented. Take No Man's Sky's galaxy reset. Hardly anyone bothers.
I had that wait a minute moment when I went to NG+1 but we universe seemed very much the same. I sm now playing mo man’s sky and preparing to resume DCS world
I think this is the best critique of starfield I've seen. Todd Howard on the lex Friedman podcast exactly said that the challenge with their franchises is that modders keep the communities going a decade after launch and that its hard to design a game to have the kind of replay ability. The result was the all of starfield feels like a template for a game rather than an actual game. But I think they misses the mark thinking skyrim was being replayed for those jokes of radiant quests that are randomly spawning.
Yep, my many hours in Skyrim were strictly for the modding:)
There were so many mods to "fix" the experience.
They should have looked at the mod scene and said "we can do this but even better cause we're a huge studio with money". Instead I really feel like they threw in the towel and just said "you do it".
Discussing with my partner instead of Bethseda making games perhaps they should instead focus on game engines and release sand boxes for others to make the games.
Be upfront about it instead of making an empty game.
And with this create a platform where modders get paid, which I think that might be where it is going with Skyrims last update.
Bethesda can stop focusing on content, instead focus on world building, lore and the world itself. Let others create the game
If they released a game template and said they were making a game template I think it would have been better received than saying they released a game. To me it feels like what they want to do are game templates, perhaps they should just lean into that authentically. Go all in.
The best critique is that 8-hour-long video essay on why it isn't good. But this touches on the major points and is more managable
Yeah and they hire some modders if i recall, and didn't use their knowledge.
I think Emil is a big factor in why they've been going downhill. He can't write, and thinks design documents aren't necessary. Which is why quests can feel so disjointed from each other as there's no overarching vision.
From how disconnected and limited some things are, I would not be surprised if some stuff was left on the cutting room floor when the game went through revisions. This could explain the disconnect and other things, such as the limited companions.
@@AlexAdrift Yeah, I wonder how much content modders are going to unearth once they get their hands on the creation kit.
@@AlexAdrift I think the disconnects stem from the lack of design document. A few other videos made this point about the zero-gravity combat - it must have taken a ton of work to implement properly and have the AI work, but it's only used in a few places. A ton of work wasted because only one or two designers knew this feature would be there to take advantage of.
@@Eamil That is another great point. Also, look at "ship stealth" another thing that is introduced then forgotten. If it is true that a design document was ignored or intentionally not used, this would only further highlight the massive design failures.
@@AlexAdrift There may be credence to Emil not using Design docs for their recent games, he was doing an on stage presentation once some years ago basically saying they use to use it around the FO3 era, but to him he made it sound like it was too much of hassle with new developments to keep track of and the doc would need to be changed because it became quickly outdated that it was eventually ditched in their dev process.
Though if that is the case, it's not the design doc's fault. It's suppose to be changed and constantly iterated upon. From what I understand design docs are crucial in minimizing development lag by constantly asking leads or other department questions about certain aspects when they can reference things themselves. It could provide the dev team focus and help them account for all sorts of mechanics and the player's potential interaction with them to better utilize features, other wise game mechanics or quests have this sort of disjointed feel like things are under-utilized etc.
The problem is that it is small. Neon should have been Night City. New Atlantis should have been larger. Planets should have been more, but without endless ships landing next to you.
The small scale of the locations is rather odd in my opinion. New Atlantis doesn't feel like the biggest city they ever created. It feels shallow with a bunch of crazy-eyed, soulless weirdos running around.
I would have been happier if most of the planets were emptier. It's super immersion breaking walking into the same building multiple times on multiple planets. New Atlantis was honestly fine, but it shouldn't have been alone on the planet. In Oblivion, there were small settlements dotting the landscape. If you walk out of New Atlantis, there's no way to tell that you haven't landed on a random unexplored planet on the fringes of space.
@@davidpretorius2984 yeah, it was very odd to not include more cities on the planet. I'm pretty sure Oblivion has more settlements than Starfield despite being a far more limited game from over a decade ago. Again, I don't understand Bethesda's choices.
I am a bit afraid, that Bethesdas push for paid mods may harm the modding community and make it more difficult to "save" Starfield.
Yup....they are, in fact, killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.
The mkment they started charging for already free mods with FO4 was the moment they started losing.
It's nothing new, they tried the same shit 10 years ago. They sucked then and they suck now.
How is giving the CHOICE to modders harming the modding community? is not as if they are shutting down nexusmods.
@@BernardoPC117 Because very few people will buy mods (well on PC anyway...console people who are conditioned to spend money on MTX may) and there will be backlash and that backlash will fracture the modding community AGAIN, and more modders will just get fed up and move on. Some very good mod authors quit modding for good after the last attempt to monetize mods because of all of the drama.
Starfield is already a divisive game among fans, paid mods is just going to make that division grow even wider. But hey, if that's how they want to roll, then more power to them.
I think the BGS devs having a meltdown on twitter and attacking the fanbase illustrates your point...lol. As long as Todd is calling the shots, you can expect more of the same for years to come.
I have close to no hope for ES6
the mixed reviews as an aftermath of SF obviously is putting a lot of stress on BGS
That's the part i don't understand tho, cause Todd was there when they were creating mega hits back in the day so he knows what it takes, yet they botched starfield so hard. The hell happened there? lmao
@@piccoloatburgerkingthe thing is that Todd thinks he found a formula that he can keep repeating over and over to achieve success, but in taking the formulaic approach he sucked all the soul and passion out of everything Bethesda makes
@@piccoloatburgerking Emil Pagliarulo
I can't wait for Starfield 1.0 to come out in 5 years! This alpha build looks pretty promising. I hope we don't need the entire community to give an actual source of custom planets, quests, npcs, ships, and a proper progression system! Oh wait...
I wish I had more than one upvote! Nailed it.
nailed it!
@@StewartWild ...you're not on reddit.
@@OCTO358 I'm pretty sure I am. Yep, I'm logged in, looking at it right now. Edit: *facepalm* just realised you were being humorous! My apologies, I totally misunderstood your comment!
Once creation kit is released they’ll leave the fixing to modders. 5 years from now this game will be amazing because of modders. Typical Bethesda loop. Release cool concept game, half bake the game, release creation kit, let modders fix and make the game better, then release unneeded updates that will break the best and most needed mods.
Fallout 4 mod developer and hobby UE5 developer here; Creation Engine is just a tool, and if I was to make an entire Open World RPG and had free choice of engine (with source code access), I would seriously consider picking Creation over Unreal. It's a specialized engine that does this one thing really well but it's completely useless for anything besides this type of game. You are absolutely correct that the tool used to make SF is not anywhere close to being the main problem with SF. SFs problems are design-level problems: it doesn't matter how you implement the design, it's not going to turn out well if the design is bad to begin with.
Yeah, I believe Starfield would have been bad regardless of system.
We need a CK2 for Elderscrolls6. The creation engine is not responsible for this mess but it did not do any good either and if you ever tried working with it, its a mess and i cant imagine how many workarounds you would have to use to make a game in 2024 that has a right to be in this decade.
To this day despite all the definite issues around bethesda, i'm still a loyal fanboy (in particular the publisher because of all the franchises they own that i adore)
Skyrim being my favorite of the bunch of their games
And it really throws me off how probably thousands of people have the idea that the engine is the sole reason why the games are so "bad".
A lot of the arguments come down to "ugh i can't believe they still use the same engine they used since morrowind"
Yea, and people are still using unreal engine 25 years after it's release. Almost like engines get updates with modern features.
There is no argument that creation engine lacks a lot of said modern features and just QoL improvements that would make using it (along with creation kit) actually not a draining experience. But it's not the root of all evil.
@@tommax1626 "i cant imagine how many workarounds you would have to use to make a game in 2024 that has a right to be in this decade."
You can literally ask the Fallout London team, they can tell you exactly how many.
I don't think that number would be significantly greater than a handful maybe.
@@Chris-lc3wi I dont know where you are comming from but in my world somerhing like Skyblivion takes 10 years+ to make i was talking about a triple A game like Elderscrolls 6 and that will take more effort than we both can imagine.
I've been a creation engine defender. I always point to Skyrim and Fallout 4 mods that literally change the way animations and combat work. All done in the creation engine. Like you stated, it's Bethesda that doesn't utilize it correctly.
Personally, I think it is the sheer size of Starfield that prevented them from making a better game.
@@UnknownMosesPatricianTV's video on Starfield gives some reason on it's shortcomings like Bethesda apparently not using design documents
I mean the mods can make them look really nice and all but the animations and everything still kinda look relatively static, don’t really look that fluid and just repetitive when compared to modern games.
The environments I can agree on, the actual character models and animations nah it’s becoming outdated there
Let’s be real with ourselves those animation mods look janky and out of place. Some of them are very fluid but the combat ones aren’t great.
Well, is the Creation Engine really good if it arguably isn't updated/improved and the integration of extra features, both old and new, is still a mess. Skyrim and Fallout 4 NEED the mods and fixes from the community to function at a somewhat acceptable level, but the simple fact the Bethesda refuses to rewrite the Creation Engine to integrate the mods and fixes, let alone to optimize performance and stability. And Skyrim and Fallout 4 are pretty old games by now and Starfield makes it painfully clear that where the other engines have evolved, the Creation Engine hasn't. In the end it's the combination of a non-evolved engine and a very bland and empty game that shouts out how Bethesda is purely going for that low-effort cash-grab and it makes Starfield a meh game.
Bethesda managed to make the closest thing I’ve ever seen to purgatory
I think what Bethesda should have done was focus the game's exploration on the travel aspect, mostly doing away with fast travel (though perhaps leaving in taxis between major locations on a planet). This would allow them to better leverage the procedural event generation they are known for. They do use it in Starfield, but there is no reason to interact with it since you can just teleport halfway across the galaxy with very little effort. Additionally, events and locations should be placed closer together on planet surfaces to avoid having players walk five minutes to discover some meaningless anomaly that is exactly the same as the ones you find on every other planet. This would help make the game feel less empty.
Well, modders are bailing on Starfield in large part because BGS did in fact break the engine in order to make various new mechanics work. When ElminsterAU is pointing to specific coding errors and incompatibilities - and the response is for Discord mods to DELETE his points - then yes, there's not only a problem with the engine but a disinterest on Bethesda's part to help the modding community work it out. For reference, ElminsterAU's key work on XEdit is a major reason big chunks of the Elder Scrolls/Fallout modding community even EXIST.
That said, looking at what Emil's done to slash storytelling to the bone - claiming it's in line with the "KISS Principle" to not even maintain design documents (it isn't) - is telling enough. Bethesda has taken its fan base, and its ability to make its money back through sheer first-day sales hype, for granted. Starfield is the result.
This is not going to be a "No Man's Sky" redemption story.
Bethesda has NEVER done an NMS-style rework of ANY game. At best, you get dribs and drabs across the years. We might see fishing at Atlantis City implemented sometime around 2030, if that.
What you see right now, is the vast bulk of what you'll get, and it's because way too many people will happily buy the hype, instead of waiting just one more month to see if the hype is real.
"It not the creation engine its the design" YES YES YES. I 100% AGREE
Cyberpunk looks way better and came out first why because the engine is better
@2gunzup07 Well, I could say Red Dead 2 has way better graphics than cyberpunk 2077, but then again, who cares about how good graphics are. The DESIGN of the game that matters more than anything else
@@2gunzup07GTA4 came out in n 2008 and it’s a better game than cyberpunk. So what’s your point?
@@2gunzup07 so Bethesda should buy cp2077s engine?lol
@hibernate44 gta4 was a boring bland character. Nothing to buy, stupid suits and sweatsuits to wear, your annoying dumb fat cousin, niko was the worst story and gta character so far gta4 was the only gta I haven't completed and ever will and after all the updates and dlc I think cyberpunk is a much better gm
“A poor tradesman always blames his tools.”
That kind of describes what is going on at Bugthesda.
I’m playing Starfield right now & agree 100% with you. I also play FO76 & since they have brought Double11 & some other software developer to basically do the work on FO76 it has improved dramatically & looks like it will be getting a new lease of life in the near future.
What I’m saying is that shows in a small way that it is Bugthesda that is Microsoft’s problem now.
Bethesda not only uses the tools, but they also design the tools. It is rather alarming that at every turn, other companies or modders are improving their creations with ease.
To be fair, the tools haven't been maintained for decades.
They're the best damn tools around, but they're coated with rust, missing so many pieces they don't qualify as tools, with random objects welded to them.
Then the head contractor decided to further destroy the tools by scrapping even more parts from them.
"16 times the loading screens!" -Todd
Lol. It just works.
Something I find interesting about Starfield is that it has a very similar broad-strokes plot to Enderal, a mod made from skyrim. The thing is Enderal had fundamental aspects of game, narrative, and visual design that made it blow every other bethesda game out of the water while starfield seemed determined to waste as much of the engine's potential as possible
So sad to see this game flop this hard, but I agree with every argument and point you've made. We'll see in the next year or so if Bethesda is really capable of learning from this, or will just suffocate in their own copium.
No, the sad thing is the fact that it was NOT A FLOP. The game sold well, even though its a shallow husk.
Most likely? They will strip ES6 of even more RPG elements and make it a mindless dungeon crawler. Hopefully not though.
They didn't learn the last three times.
Don't worry they get their Award if you like Raspberries. Can't wait until Todd holds them in his Hand. Todd: I make games and you keep this up and Your getting Detention where you write 1000 times I will not make Games. Sad part they use to be Great at it.
Just like F4. everyone rushed in dropped their money then later realized they didn't have what they expected.
Way after millions of units sold.
Then you have the console crowd who have just waited years for the distribution to get on track. They're ready to buy anything to justify the new system.
Btw, anyone else not liking this new yt text setup?!! lol
Skryims radiant quests in exchange for 1/2 or even only 1/4 of storied missions from oblivion was their first step into mediocrity.
The real problem with the vast majority of planets is that they are too empty of any proper substance to be interesting, but to crowded with random junk and structures to seem truly baren or untouched.
New Vegas is evidence you can make a good game on creation engine in 18 months if you're NOT Bethesda.
100% agree
I blame mostly Emil Pagliarulo tbh
Emil "it's your fault for not appreciating us enough" Pagliarulo
@@GhostOfSnufflesgod, the way he talks… I can believe he really does think like thay
If they spent as much time generating points of inteterest instead of barren planet landscapes while following the open world "40 second rule" coined by CD Projekt Red AND had a rover for traveling, the game would have less hate.
The engine's moddability is probably the one thing Bethesda ever did the most competently. It's what has saved nearly every game they ever made from their own incompetence.
Yeah, great point.
I've enjoyed Starfield a lot, despite it crashing multiple times each time I try to play it. Something is messed up when I can literally drive across the map in CP2077, ride across it in RDR2 or the Witcher3 - all with no loading screens - but in Starfield I hit a slow loading screen just about anywhere I go. Those loading screens also often crash the game - back to the desktop, so I'm really hoping they fix it so NG+ would be worth getting to and playing.
Xbox Series S memory limitations
Great video! I would definitely consider myself a Creation Engine truther. Does it have weaknesses and flaws? Absolutely! But it has strengths...some really great strengths that have led to some of the most immersive and detailed sandboxes out there. Starfield doesn't lean into those strengths.
There's no interactivity between characters and the world around them. No sense of movement or existence to the world that's so prevalent in their previous titles. The static nature of every NPC is such a strange direction. Think back to Skyrim. Everyone had jobs, lives, a family, etc. There was so much passive storytelling within these characters that they didn't necessarily have to be all that deep for players to use them within their own stories.
The biggest disappointment with Starfield imo, is that instead of pushing this system of existing NPCs forward, it's essentially been removed.
What if that person you helped in Akila had a trade route that took them to a nearby planet? Much in the same way we'd see traders and caravans travelling in Skyrim/FO4? What if you could follow them? Maybe something happens, maybe not, maybe you just decide to blow them up? - regardless, there's a story there and the game doesn't need to even write one.
Thanks!
And yeah, the world seems frozen. Look the poor shopkeepers stuck behind the counter for an eternity. The previous games actually felt like you were exploring a living, moving world. I still have to google characters just to find their daily routines so I can locate them. There was always a sense of discovery within the world and characters. Things aren't unique anymore in Starfield. The world waits for you and the game is a mindless, casual looter-shooter. Cities are filled with soulless NPCS. Items is just generic loot. I agree 100% with your points.
You don't even to be a truther to believe that the Creation Engine isn't Starfield's biggest problem. Take all the art and design ideas that went into the game and reimplement them in Unreal Engine 5, and you'd have a game that works very much the same but with fewer physics glitches, maybe better enemy AI and perhaps fewer loading screens. That solves some of Starfield's least significant problems by trading away the ability to mod the game, but you're still left with the sparsely filled worlds, lack of space exploration, terrible inventory management, poor story writing, generic characters, etc.
These problems are almost certainly a result of problems at the top of the organization rather than any failings of the software developers, artists, writers and QA testers who work at the ground level of the game development process. The people fleshing out a faction questline weren't the ones who decided that your decisions have no effect on the progression of the quest. The artists weren't the ones who prioritized procedural generation over hand crafted landscapes. The software developers weren't the ones who decided the game should have a new game+ mode without any of the usual benefits of a new game+ mode.
Creation Engine may or may not be the problem. It sure as hell isn’t the solution.
It is however the cause of the endless loading screens, wooden animations, and probably the ever shifting object ID system, which was probably implemented to get around some limitation of the engine because they wanted to implement semi-random map generation.
The creation engine is definitely antiquated compared to the proprietary engines other studios use, but they still use it because it's easier for them (and their modding community) to use. You really can't divorce the design decisions the studio makes from their technical capacity, that would be like divorcing a painting from its canvas. But if the quality of the other stuff like writing and gameplay is good enough, sometimes it's enough to paper over the cracks. Sometimes Starfield pulls it off and sometimes it doesn't. But it's impossible to ignore that they haven't truly innovated the engine since Fallout 3.
I would love to see them make improvements or lean into what the system does well. For example. You can pick up and rotate objects. When has this ever been used? If this were Zelda, they would build entire dungeons around mastering the mechanic. If Bethesda is going to rely of focus on mod support this heavily, then it should be early support. The only reason its not? Its hard to sale DLC when free mods are readily available. While Creation Engine is flawed in many ways, lots of the issues with the games I put at the feet of Bethesda.
Didn’t skyrim shut down the multiplayer mod?
@@rockfire1669 I remember there being something about this. Don't know if it was true or not. I just know Bethesda wants their slice. They want that creation club cheddar. But, shutting down a mod doesn't sound like them.
"You really can't divorce the design decisions the studio makes from their technical capacity, that would be like divorcing a painting from its canvas."
A good painter can make a great picture on a bad canvas, but a bad painter can't make a good picture on a good canvas.
Fallout New Vegas is IMHO a much better game, despite running with a worse version of this engine, simply because of writing and quest design.
@@mrm7058 Yeah, a sentiment I share. I also think it had better gameplay mechanics, such as the way it handled the skill system, level cap, perks, and how this all tied to balance. Starfield was made with an advanced version of the same system, yet is heavily flawed and inferior.
Honestly i think its both. They didnt update the engine near enough. It still even has limits on interior lighting. And then yeah bethesda just kinda dropped the ball on everything else.
There is another older video on this platform going over all the games built on Gamebryo around the time of Fallout 3 or Oblivion. The video focuses on technical aspects and game engine usage not writing. Bethesda’s entrees made up the bottom half of the pile.
Agreed. The technology is super dated. No windows in interiors, loading screens, no vehicles, no seamless flight. Character and facial animations. GTA 6 and Horizon Forbidden West look like another gen.
@@nygeriunprence the character gen and NPCs I have to blame squarely on Bethesda. Modded Skyrim characters can look as good if not better than most current gen. But Bethesda went for androgynous uncanny valley horrors with Oblivion era facial animation.
@@nygeriunprenceliterally all of that can be implemented in starfield. They weren't because it was their design decision. Why? Because having a game knit together requires having a plan. Separated locations allow you more inconsistencies and ease optimization, simple as that
I'm done with Starfield at this point, Todd just please don't F up Elder Scrolls 6.
I actualy think Bethesda should've went "all in" on random generation. Seeing exactly the same location, where even smallest details like boxes and corpses are on the exact same places feels surreal. It was crusial to at least add some different interiors for existing locations so you wont be clearing exectly the same places over and over. Jees, make walls a different color, at least.
Great point. They could have done that or in the very least play it into the story. Make a shady corporation that floods the settled systems with generic prefabs. This has even managed to spread into art, fashion, and workforces. How things have became bland and lifeless. Then you can have a counter culture of "flower people" that want expression, art, color, and graffiti. Seeing the two opposing styles clash in space could have not only added visual variety, but also some much needed worldbuilding.
literally today a major modder for Bethesda games said he would not be working on Starfield
I'm sure there will be others as well, which sucks for the Starfield modding community.
Who? You mean the guy who worked on Skyrim Together? If so, Im not interested in a Starfield Together mod, anyway. The game is being modded like cazy, and the CK for Starfield isnt even out yet. Im not a fan of the game myself. But I dont believe modders are abandoning the game.
@@Oozaru85 Oh I'm sure modders will make mods for it. Its a new toy they get to play with. But I'm curious on how fast the new toy gets old.
@@AlexAdrift Easy answer: just look at Skyrim. Skyrim was also heavily criticised after Oblivion. Yet here we are, with Skyrim still being alive and its modding community being at another high peak.
What becomes of the game in the future depends on how many modding possibilites the new CK will give us.
@@Oozaru85 That is a good point. Plus, we don't know the final state of the game as well. Might change for the better.
I just don't understand why they didn't go all in on procedural generation. Let it create massive cities, dungeons, NPC's, quests, etc. Let the systems run in the background allowing the factions and NPC's to interact dynamically. Either that, or do just the Sol system with all handcrafted content. As Starfield is right now, I feel like we got the worst of both worlds. Not enough handcrafted content, and not enough procedural generation to make the simulation believable. They should have just picked one lane and committed to that vision.
I think the "simulation" aspects of the game were hamstrung to fit into the "story." If they really wanted to do the NG+ shenanigans, it should have been done like Majora's Mask. There should have been an impending threat, like a massive war between the factions. You have 30 in game days before the war kicks off. By doing repeated NG+ loops you gain enough character knowledge and resources to help your chosen faction win the war or stop the war from happening altogether.
My worry is that this is now becoming a trend....Release a game subpar (charging full price), people rightfully criticize it, the devs take years to make it "right", and then we praise it and give thanks as if nothing happened. I think we gamers are just as guilty as the developers for the state that gaming has become.
A concerning trend indeed. Early access on steam also plays a factor. More and more gamers are becoming desensitized to WIP games.
I know that when I was playing Starfield, the engine was never my concern. I had a relatively bug-free playthrough and the physics were just fine. I actually had a lot of fun with the game. My issue is that after the main quest and faction quests, that's it. That's all of the content in the game outside of ship and base building. I wanna know who's idea it was to have 1,000 planets but like 5 varieties of copy-pasted dungeons
Yeah, I would love to see how the PR team spins all of their bad choices. "Some people like exploring the same thing 57 times. You like your house don't you? You see that everyday."
@@AlexAdrift They would not need to, if people would just move on to play something else like they should. There are way too many games around to play to stick with anything for more than the time it takes to do a single playthrough.
I haven't been able to play all good games that came out this year, even reviewers who do it as their job aren't. Just buy new games and play them. It's better for the industry too, and doesn't give people like Beth ideas how they could monetize their players with third party mods, that are never worth it compared to buying another full game. It would also make Beth's development cycle more focused and healthy.
@@noway8662 Some people can't afford to buy every new game. Gaming is an expensive hobby unfortunately. While some people can buy 3 games within a given week, others have to be strategic with their purchases. Being on game pass probably saved some people in the long run though. Add all this to the expectations they had for the title and I can see where the frustration grows from. I myself am a Bethesda fan yet have grown tired of the monetization practices and subpar design. It actually makes revisiting their older titles harder because it is a glaring reminder of the sad state today.
I would've cracked and bought the game no matter what. I'm glad I did, but it's for certain their worst game sadly, not counting Fallout 76, which I haven't played
Sadly endless often mean repetitive, you can get endless mission from the mission board, but they ends up using the same dozen or so building over and over, enemies are always in the same location, conversation are always the same and the loot is always at the same place. No man sky kind of suffer form the same issue, its always the same building doing the same things. Land anywhere and you always get another ship landing at the same distance from you.
Exploration is fun to me but the immersion rapidly broken by the countless outpost you can find and other ships landing, I'm clearly not the first one exploring this planet, they could have made a limited set of star be the "settled systems" and stars outside of this be "wild space" full of unexplored planet with the rare pirate camps hiding there without it being and "abandoned building".
Companions in starfield are also bad, there are a good number of them, but the only ones to get any storyline, romance are the 4 one from Constellation, compare this to Fallout 4, fewer companion but they where all fleshed out and they only thing linking them was the player.
Yeah, by making the game endless and casual friendly, lots of systems suffer in the process. Having things within reach of the player on the surface of a planet might appeal to a casual player who mindlessly wants to loot and shoot, but for some, it doesn't make logical sense and becomes repetitive very quickly.
We all know it… they should have made only a few well designed planets, and maps for those planets.
One aspect that really disappointed me was the enemy variety, I hate that they seem to take a little step forward in fallout 4 to just drop the ball hard. In fallout 4 ghouls would rush you evading and jumping on you when close and the way I used to deal with them was blowing the legs in vats or place land mines and bating them out. It felt unique when radscorpions or mole rats would dig and re-appeared elsewhere, some aliens do that in starfield, but it feels worse. They should have taken a page from the Halo games and made an energy shield type enemy like the jackals. Imagine an ecliptic that uses a shield to bring mele enemies closer without them taking damage while shooting you with a handgun and the ways to deal with them is to hit them in a weak spot, flank them or just to overwhelm them with firepower. This fits perfect whit the verticality added to the “arenas” (the 5 building throw out all the game) and movements. But instead we have AI that just runs up to you without thinking.
Yeah, the lackluster enemy types. tactics, and variety was extremely disappointing. The only thing that makes enemies stand apart are their weapons, which are random.
The game certainly feels like its only around 30% complete. It lacks the 'depth' of other Bethesda games, the adventure, the grip that keeps you coming back. After completing NG+1, building an awesome yet useless ship, relationshipping the desireable companions, getting the cool weapons, choosing the corny Starborn dialogue options, what is the point of endlessly replaying the same storylines?
And don't get me started on the endless jetpacking across planets. It needs some randomness, some NPCs to bump into, or shorter walks, or more micro quests along the way. The whole thing just feels so empty and void of character - because its generated by a soulless computer.
Mods show that the Creation Engines works fine. Just look at Nolvus, Shows what you can do with Creation Engine. It all depends on how much polish you want to put in to make it all work. However Creation Engine with tools like SKSE allows for even more tools that helps us to push the Creation Engine to it's true potential. BUT above all that, you still have to make a good game for the audience not the corporate investors.
Fallout New Vegas is the proof you don't need a good engine to make a good game. That thing essentially used a 2006 era Oblivion engine (yes, it was used in F3, but that iteration of the engine started with Oblivion).
And they made it work. You're right about mods. I've seen 144Hz and super advanced scripting stuff in modded Skyrim.
It doesn't matter what you do, really. But whatever you do, it needs to work by design and artistically.
Bethesda is finished. They can't put together something decent to save themselves, but the modders can? I've been saying they are done since Fallout 4, basically. Not a lot of people listened. Starfield didn't surprise me.
@@CyroTheSpider New Vegas wasn't fun to play, but it was written by better writers in a way that called back to the original Fallouts 1-2, and that rescued it from the infinite blandness that has been Bethesda games since Oblivion.
@@rclaws3230new Vegas didn't even have proper crash prevention due to memory limitations, unlike every Bethesda game. Not engine problem
You are 100% right in my own experience. Trying to forcibly recreate what made a previous project so good, oftentimes doesn't produce good results. Something that was an organic spur of the moment, creation, ends up being soulless and forced.
reminds me of the Family Guy episode where Brian takes adderall for days on end to great his "Space Shire 7" (like Game of Thrones) and it ends up being a massive pile of stinky shit and George R.R. Martin berates him for it hhahaahahh czcams.com/video/6LskIQNVirc/video.html
Never forget that The Forgotten City started as a Skyrim quest mod.
Ships originally required fuel, and we were supposed to build outposts to collect helium 3 as we travelled further out into unexplored space, but I guess the devs decided that wasn't fun and scrapped the whole mechanic, which is why there isn't even a reason to build outposts anymore.
Yeah, that and seamless travel were both cut along with other tweaks such as combat.
There is a lot of truth in the fact, that the Creation Engine isn't that bad! We all see, how modding enables for example Skyrim, to be a very moddern game with all the best mods installed!
That is not a true statement in anyway shape or form.
@@jhallo1851 Very insightful rebuttal there. Explains everything.
*My complaints against Starfield.*
The inability to loot armour and clothes directly off of dead NPCs ....a feature in all previous Bethesda single player RPGs since Oblivion (first Bethesda game I played). Or pickpocket clothes/armour from living NPCs like you could in Skyrim and Fallout 4.
Few reasons for this. Firstly it was just funny removing clothes from people! Also looting armour from numerous dead enemies in a heavy gunfights was a good indication to let me know which fallen enemies I had looted.
Also, how cool of a stealth kill would it have been to sneak up on an enemy in a zero oxygen zone and pickpocket the helmet from them and see them suffocate? Missed opportunity there.
Another problem is that 95% of the human enemies you fight are ALL wearing spacesuits and helmets EVEN in breathable environments. They all just look the same ALL THE TIME. This frustrates me no end. The game feels like I am always fighting identical clones all the time. No visual identity to them. Just another person in a spacesuit with a helmet. And since you can no longer remove the helmet from dead NPCs you never get to see their face ...this is a big factor for me in making the game feel soulless.
You can set the game to where your character is not visibly wearing the helmet and spacesuit in breathable environments ....so why does this not apply to NPCs?
Other issues....
Merchants now stay in the same place 24/7. Gone are the days of Oblivion where you could visit a store or big place during the day...scope out the place for valuables and then come back in the night when everyone is sleeping and carry out a heist.
Oblivion actually had NPCs who had daily routines, work during the day, take breaks and eat, go to chapels...go to a tavern in the evening before going home to bed. NONE of this exists in Starfield. In my 484 hours of play time on Starfield the only character I ever saw sleep was the Adoring Fan on my ship.
Swimming underwater is another thing now not possible in Starfield. The pickpocketing has been heavily downgraded. You can't reverse pickpocket...place an item in the NPCs inventory, like a grenade in the Fallout games or poisoned apple like Oblivion.
Outpost building is a joke. The only time I needed to build an outpost was just so I could deploy a bounty clearance thing on a planet not affiliated with any faction...so I could quickly fly there without interference and easily pay off my bounty.
As pointed out in this video....limited melee weapons and no modding possible for melee weapons. No hand to hand weapons either.
Dropping clothing items on the floor now shows the item as a boxed package instead of an actual clothing prop like previous Bethesda games did.
Way too many unkillable NPCs. What I loved about Fallout: New Vegas was that pretty much everyone could be killed (even companions) and you could just fail the quest but the game still continues.
Some of these may seem trivial but when you add them all up it really becomes noticeable.
The game really lacks the soul of previous Bethesda games. So much missed opportunity.
The creation engine is literally a massive factor in what makes BGS games feel outdated.
Perhaps, but I find that Bethesda and others made better games with even greater limitations. Just look at Skyrim, New Vegas, or some fan made projects as an example.
@@AlexAdrift Skyrim and Fallout New Vegas are over ten years old. And New Vegas isnt even a Bethesda game its an Obsidian Game. And fan made projects are impressive because of the creative freedom and time they get. The creation engine is cool for modding 10, 15, 20 year old games. Not modern games.
Part of why I continue to sink hundreds upon hundreds of hours in Skyrim is the handcrafted world. Throwing that concept out was a huge step backwards.
Yeah, was a poor choice in my opinion.
creation engine is essentially the same engine that ran fallout 3
Yup, that game engine is 15 years old lol
Bethesda use to make there games for PC as well now they're a console developer
Bethesda will always give bare minimum because they need to make a game modders can match in their backyard.
I dont think the engine has been the first criticism. I largely see the writing and design criticized.
But, you do an excellent job summarizing many of the design issues.
Personally, I wish we could ban "lackluster" from CZcams reviews. It's a crutch word which stands in for argument and explanation.
I was genuinely interested in this game's potential to be a sprawling sandbox with a massive scale. Then I realized it takes every worse parts of a Bethesda game: worse writing, worse story, worse characters, worse worldbuilding, worse gameplay loop etc. The cherry on top? Handcrafted environmental storytelling replaced for soulless procedurally generated "endless damnation". Rather than being something I'm replaying for the years to come, instead it's something I'm only looking forward to finishing years after its release only if somehow they (or anyone) is able to make this game salvageable.
Amen.
PatricianTV's Starfield video showed that apparently Bethesda doesn't use design documents...
I'll have to check it out. That sounds scary as shit though.
My art teacher used tell us that a great artist doesn’t blame his or her tools. He drew a realistic self portrait with only cue tips and coffee
Bethesda lost the moment Starfield was nominated in the RPG category, given who actually won the award
Some of the nominations this year were pretty suspect...Happy for some of the teams though.
I dedicated 460 hours to this game (although I suspect some of them were due to loading screens) and I think it's a game with good intentions. We as a community, need to revaluate our expectations. Or now we are hoping every game to last forever? Is every game from a company after a masterpiece supposed to be a strictly better game? Is that fair?
If you get bored after grinding the game for weeks, or if it's just not what you expected, does that make it a bad game?
I think if you focus on the main story or factions, the game is at its best. However, after 20-40 hours, I could no longer ignore the massive issues the game has. At that point, you are leveling slow, the game is repeating things, and combat is starting to become a bore. I think the game's biggest issue is, it doesn't do anything great and is inferior to contemporary games and previous Bethesda titles. There are better Bethesda games, better looter shooters, better narrative games, better action games, better RPGs, and better exploration games. Is it right to expect a game you can play forever? Yes, I would tell people to lower their expectations. I would however expect a good game for 70$ and Starfield isn't that.
Agreed.
I'm not going to lie. I was saying to myself, "I'm going to put my foot in the door this time, I'm going to go from mod consumer to mod maker with starfield." But while I like some elements of it, at the moment, I don't like it enough to make that plunge into learning how to mod.
Yep, wrong game to put that effort in:)
The mod tools aren't out yet so there's not many ways to properly make mods for it yet. I've made plenty of mods for Skyrim and some for Fallout 4, trust me if yiou wanna get into modding just wait for the official tools to roll out. Then you can decide properly whether you wanna continue or not. I'll mod the hell out of it tho and improve anything i can within my level of talent lol.
@@piccoloatburgerking I mean even with the proper tools, if you don't have the proper investment in the game to be bothered that alone is not gonna save it.
3:13 Bethesda already did give the same engine and probably a lower budget to another studio, they did that once and that studio went on to make one of the best RPG's, Fallout New Vegas.
100% True.
Modders don't even want to mod the game, it's simply not compelling enough.
Exactly, the creation engine is a symptom of Bethesdas lack of care, thinking what worked on the Xbox 360 works now, not only in tech but also in game design, gameplay, story etc
The problem is their attitude. We lay the groundwork. Any problems, let the community fix em.
And charge them for it.
The real problem I had with this game was the repetition of resetting all the time to just get armor with a new look and a ship that doesn't change anything. Starfield also feels like it's incomplete, as I imagine Bethesda wants to leave it up to modders to add content to the game
yeah, I agree, feels like a lot of the game was left on the cutting room floor.
In Skyrim if you complete the Dark Brotherhood questline you get a mission called "Dark Brotherhood Forever" which is go there and kill this person report back and repeat. If you get tired of doing it along and don't take the loony toon as a follower there are to Dark Brotherhood Initiates you can take as companions that are so bland that they do not even have names. This is Starfield in Skyrim.
Followers in Skyrim were not great but but you sort of came to like Lydia, Jezargo, Serana, Mjoll the Lioness, or any other of the 30+ followers you could find around the province. The starfield followers are so bland that even the most generic Skyrim followers have more personality. Also coming after Fallout 4 that has the best followers of any Bethesda game Starfield is a huge disappointment. Compare Sarah Morgan with Piper, Nick Valentine or Cait for instance. You get a lot more story and a lot more backstory. With Starfield with the ones I have built up a friendship/relationship the only backstory is that they all had a great fiend that is now gone and they were gay. Compare that to Cait's backstory as a cage fighter who was sold into slavery. She tells the whole story of how she was abused and how she took out revenge on her parents and became a drug addict. Cait is much more likeable than Sarah Morgan who's notable achievements was being field promoted to a boss babe, getting rescued from a spaceship crash and having a romantic relationship with a woman. Really the only two companions that were not a total disappointment where the two pirates. Even they bet repetitive with their complaining about everything though.
The NPCs in Starfield also look terrible. I think you have to go back to Oblivion to see more creepy looking general NPCs. Back then it appeared more to be the graphic limitations but here in Starfield they are in HD and still look worse then the potatoes you had back in the day. Go to Tenpenny Tower or Megaton in Fallout 3 and the NPC's are both less bug-eyed and react better to you than in Starfield.
Yeah, compared to previous Bethesda titles, Starfield is inferior in most ways. You give great examples as to why.
Highly recommend PatricianTV’s video on Starfield. Specifically, he points out that the team didn’t use a design document, and frankly most of Starfield’s issues make a ton of sense from that perspective.
Thanks for the recommendation
Ok this is a solid recommendation.
I still can't get over that space cop guy you meet during the pirate quest line.
You get arrested and are offered a chance to clear your name by acting as a spy in the pirate crew. There's a dialogue choice to fight your way off the ship, but if you choose that, you can't actually kill space cop.
But here's the kicker: you actually _do_ kill space cop later in the quest line when you blow up his ship.
You're only allowed to kill space cop once Todd says so.
The amount of Essential NPCs is actually startling. A singular location in New Atlantis has more essential NPCs than the entirety of New Vegas. This is odd, considering the game incentivizes you to play it multiple times yet gives you limited to no massive impacts or drastic story changes.
I took a 10 year break from gaming. I’m ready to take another 10 year break after Halo Infinite, Redfield and Starfield.
Hopefully by then ES6 will be out...but probably not
@@AlexAdriftI logged 20+ days on Fallout 4 and Borderlands 3, loved those, but can only beat a game so many times.
You only need to look at what modders have done with older iterations of the creation engine to know that Starfield - and Bethesda's problems - don't lie in the engine itself but in the cynical corporate machinations of the company leadership.
Great points
Facts there is nothing wrong with the engine the game will change when they release the creation engine early next year. 😂
@@mediabrandslife Hopefully. They announced a new road map for updates so I'm excited to see what and how its implemented.
Yep, some great points. Also, the creation engine is not to blame for the bland story and boring dialogue. I don't even blame the voice actors for how flat and dead they sound most of the time, I think the text is so insipid, of course they couldn't put any emotion or passion into it. The sci-fi is almost non-existant. Space ships and ... nothing else. In Starfield, in 2300, everything is much the same as Earth 2023. But in space. It's ludicrous. Discovering the New World changed Europe more in 100 years than moving to space would in 300? Not in Starfield. And it's nothing to do with technical issues. Just bland boring uncreative writing. The Creation engine isn't to blame. The Uncreative engine running Bethesda is!
I wish they just had a handful of planets that were as beautiful and memorable as Skyrim.
Thank god, I feel like I’ve been fighting this fight on Reddit for years.
Now, I’m just going to share a link to this video.
Thanks! Glad I could help.
I would have welcomed fewer planets for a better game play experience, flying your ship down to the surface from orbit, manually landing your ship on the surface or docking with a ship or space station. The bullseye was there for them to hit and they missed it. The ilink system for sending goods to outposts from the mission board just doesn't work.I thought the game had so much promise from the trailers and then the game came out. Bethesda just don't seem to realise what a hit they could have had.
Yeah, I think the game had potential. Hopefully with mods or DLC it can reach it. I just personally feel it has a long way to go.
i don't know if they needed fewer planets, but at least there should be less random POI unless its near a marked location on the planet, such as a habitat or outpost. and even then it should be POIs that could support the habitat/outpost.
it's weird that where ever i go i find random POI, like is space really this explored and settled and abandoned?
instead, i think the core worlds should be more densely populated with more and larger cities.
@@Xadhoom80 That is a good point. To me, New Atlantis doesn't feel like their largest city to date. I agree that these domesticated areas needed bigger if not multiple cities, considering it is an actual planet.
@@Xadhoom80 a planet is unexplored yet there are outposts, lab, mines, etc.etc. Just wished it was a bit more gamer friendly, flying through the layers of atmosphere, landing, I desperately want a vehicle to use, all this walking is just boring. My character should be able to run a marathon in 1hr 30mins. 🤣😂🤣 it’s like they took all the fun stuff out and left us with rubbish. Some planets have oceans, why can’t there be cities under water. So much seems to have been overlooked. 😡😡😤😤
All I’m saying is I never liked their character models always look creepy,weird like they have no souls lol
Look at the NPCs in New Atlantis. Nightmare Fuel.
876 subs and a video that’s going to hit at least 100K. Nice. Godspeed!
Thanks!
And why is there a day/night cycle but the npcs don't adhere to it? NPCs are always awake, shops are always open, etc.
Great point. Those poor shop keepers man...stuck in the loop with no escape. This was most likely done to appeal to the casual fans who didn't like waiting or sleeping. Bethesda said screw emersion.
I'm ultra high and you are the best like man the holy algo did a good job
What killed the game's longevity for me is the lack of character build variety. You don't unlock different ways to play the game, you unlock content. You want to fly B and C class ships? Spend the perks. You want to be able to mod gear? Spend the perks. Want to craft components for those mods yourself? Spend perks.
There are no different ways to play the game.
Stealth is not viable because there are no takedown mechanics, and at range, because of the visual design of the game, enemies blend into the environment too much, you are discovered by the time you figure out where your next enemy is. Situational awareness without space dragon shout "sense starstuff" cheating is zero. Curiously, I don't have the same problem with Cyberpunk 2077, somehow that game retains visual superiority without being too cluttered to see enemies.
Different guns go pewpew different ways, but they play the same.
Melee is useless.
... and there is nothing else left to talk in terms of gameplay variety. 1 character does it all.
Great points. Also, because the game is endless, that essentially means that every character will eventually be the same. No hard choices need to be made when it comes to builds. The game also forces you to buy perks you don't want, again, forcing most characters down the same progression path. Why do I need to spend points in Social just because I want Leadership? The game forces you to buy stuff you don't want. Not to mention the poor melee, poor stealth, poor powers, and poor social "abilities." Overall, the entire system is terrible when compared to their previous efforts or other games, such as Cyberpunk.
@@AlexAdrift If different character builds would be a possibility, I would restart the game to play those, so the other character skills I already unlocked, along with my higher level influencing item quality, health pool, consumable availability etc. wouldn't contaminate the experience.
The game is most fun to play at the very beginning, when consumable scarcity and your character's squishiness makes it an actual challenge to succeed on very hard. As you have progressively more medpacks to use, ammo to waste, and more powerful weapons unlocked/modded, you can be more daring.
I made 4 characters before I realized I do the same things over and over again, that's when I've got bored of the game to a point where mods didn't offer enough gameplay variety to keep me interested. And by that time I've had ship fuel costs and an actual oxygen pool to worry about (among many other things).
@@dominic.h.3363 I would like to see them add a hardcore mode, something to make resources and items valuable. It could also add some much needed spice to the combat.
"It's odd seeing the saviour of Starfield being the very thing people are blaming for it's failure."
Amen.
If we lose creation engine, we lose most of if not all the modding capability and unparalleled amounts of interactivity, some of the very best things about BGS games.
Yeah. Modding means so much to the community and is a must for so many people.
Starfield has two GLARING issues and i haven’t seen people straight up say, Creativity and Passion. It’s just plain LAZY and I feel like these above all others, are unacceptable. All I did was take one look at what their ‘exploration’ looked like and there’s literally nothing to do. Not even an item-search-reward type of system like assassins creed, and even that’s lazy. Just crazy man. We need to boycott these types of developers ruthlessly until they learn we won’t buy this low effort low quality shit. That’s what I don’t get too, if they wanted to make money, why not make a legendary kick ass game that will sell for years. Seems like a much better business plan…
Great points
Well said. It only took them 5 years to get Fallout 76 to a point where it should have release at, so perhaps my grand kids may get to play a fun version of Starfield.
By that time Starfield will have been ported to every major console, appliance, bodega, smart TV, and even battery operated sex toys. No matter where you go, you can reach for the stars with Starfield.
I would still not buy it
Also, an engine is not something that you make once and never upgrade again. The fast travel system shows that they were just too lazy to make seamless level streaming. That is something that comes by default by every engine used today, even in the creation engine as shown in skyrim or fallout.
The travel times while flying between planets is perfect for this. And even if the game started stuttering, no one would complain because its normal for a game to stutter while reading large amounts data.
Yeah, Bethesda I think swung and missed unfortunately.
the last few starfield essays ive seen have said that creation isn't the problem too, and now you're saying it as well. it was something people were saying back in the 2010s when 'new engine' was a selling point, but now no one cares about that anymore because we know that engines can be upgraded to be more useful without having to delay production because they want to make a new engine.
Some people still blame the engine out of either habit or indoctrination. Just look in these comments. There are plenty who believe all of Starfield's issues are technical issues and Bethesda can only be saved by moving to Unreal.
Great video man. I agree completely. I've been modding bethesda games for a very long time and the CK has come a long way actually. One thing you hit on was the melee combat. Now, I'm not a huge fan of the melee animation overhauls for skyrim, they are all extremely impressive and could have easily been replicated on the newer CK. If you look closely they don't even have 2 handed weapons in starfield. Just two animation sets based on 1 handed weapons. (and theyre worse in third person as they force your character to move, while you stand still in first person)
The biggest point that relates to me is modders not wanting to work on starfield. People like to make mods for good games with a solid base. We don't want to fix the entire game if the base game isn't fun in the first place. The main loop is fundamentally flawed. Even if you had in atmosphere flight for planets with a stronger engine, would that really change anything other than cutting out the running?
I've uninstalled the game and probably wont back unless its to check out the DLC maybe. Hope this video gets the attention it deserves.
First, thank you for the kind words and comments. Second, I agree with your points entirely. I do hope that with mods, free updates, and DLC, the game can become something more people can enjoy. I just personally hate that it'll cost more money and time in the process though.
I really like your points towards the end of the video. I always said that Starfield is a game that was built off of analytics. Todd Howard and the team saw that people like to play their games forever so they sought out to make a game with endless content rather than quality content. I'm glad everyone is roasting them for this, but--sadly--I don't think they care and will do the same for Elder Scrolls 6.
But more importantly, they saw a way to monetize that desire to play their games forever, so their greed and shortsightedness may be their real downfall once all is said and done. Well, and their hubris...plenty of that too.
Finally, the first video I've seen about this topic. As a modder since Fallout 3, I've never blamed the engine for their failures. And they own the engine, they can do whatever they want with it, even implement new ideas how to prevent loading screens, or the best space flight and combat simulation of all time. It's just a software, and you don't blame Adobe for updating Photoshop since 1987. Okay, probably because they are actually doing it. And they probably need to do it because their audience are pros and not fanboys.
Anyway, they could have made the best game of a generation with any iteration of their engine, but they are utterly sloppy, suffer from bad judgement in game design and story writing, and are deliberately trying to remove features because they are also greedy.
In all of their games I know, it had great ideas, but you could be sure that they would remove or break it in the next iteration. I mean, they had an animation for drinking out of toilets in Fallout 3, but in Fallout 4, there was only one drinking animation in the whole game. If you don't drink from a water pump, the water is teleported magically to your stomach, pathetic. Not to mention that they removed holstered weapons on back in Fallout 4. WTF. This is so contrary to everything I know about development of any product, where you normally try to improve and add things instead of removing the most basic features. I mean, the engine has a full day cycle, and NPC reacting to it, but they removed it in Starfield. Like underwater swimming. And Todd had the guts to suggest a hardware update for this so-called optimized next gen game.
But nothing of it is an engine limitation. Not the green look in Fallout 3, not the bad lighting everywhere, not the blocky faces and bad textures and animations, or the quest design. Everything is limited to the worst hardware of the generation, and everybody else has to take it. That's the reason why even noob modders can have a success. They are so incompetent and limited in any aspect of game design that even a Hello world mod can improve the game significantly. I bet that all the interfaces for a day-night cycle are still there, you just need to set some flags on the AI packages for a mod called "Immersive Day-Night Cycle".
Great points! I think their design choices are a clear trend for worse.
seems like I see a lot of people excuse this stuff with "modders can fix it."
Great point. They can, but that shouldn't be the norm. Perhaps their reliance on the community patching the game is the issue.
If you played the nolvus skyrim mod you know it aint creation engine but how bethesda utilizes it. The combat of skyrim and so many mechnaics were improved with on nolvus skyrim due to plethora of mods showing how with the older creation engine what you could.schieve on terms of combat, graphics etc. Fans can do it but bethesds cant hire competent developers or writers.
Exactly. The community really showcases how great and competent the system can be.
The creation engine is certainly a limiting factor SOMEWHERE, but its the mentality of the process that resulted in a disjointed mess of a game like starfield every making it into the light of day. So many mistepps and at no point did anyone with authority successfully raise the alarm to say. "Hey this is a bit shit."
In its 7 years of dev time, how the hell did nobody say it?
well no, the problem is that they rushed the game to please the shareholders and they didn't put anything in the game on all the planets.
They need to go above and beyond for the dlcs. If they can do a couple shivering Isles quality story expansions and add a bunch of new content to the vanilla areas and new mechanics I think this could be a great game.
Hopefully. I like your ideas though. I think the game is in a clear need of content.
The fact that you still trust Todd and BGS after everything, Fallout 76... Starfield... I... You're like a battered wife that doesn't know how and doesn't want to leave.
@@matchesburn But he's different now...he promised he would change...
@@matchesburn Find me a studio that makes games like Bethesda. Nobody else even bothers with the formula which is why Skyrim is still so popular. It's the same reason I play mount and blade despite the game being ass.
They revamped the shit out of 76 after the outcry so I don't see why they can't do that with Starfield. I never said I trusted them to do anything either.
@@MultiSpeedMetal
"Find me a studio that makes games like Bethesda"
This is like asking "find me a pizzeria that has rabbit shit for toppings." It's not helping your argument.
"They revamped 76"
And it's still awful. Great example.
Y'know... You don't have to continue being with Todd. You can leave him. He can... never hurt you again...
3dnpc has a podcast where he talks with other modders. his interview with elianora was good. he mentioned that at one time you could fly from the surface of a planet, fly thru the star system and then land on another planet with out load screens. they stripped that out for some reason. there's also remanants of the fuel system in the game that modders are already trying to reimplement.
Trying to understand Bethesda and their braindead choices is impossible I'm afraid. Sucks that those systems were scrapped.
@@AlexAdrift This might be a stretch but maybe the series s is why they had to cut back on stuff like that. We know bg3 also had problems with series s because it couldn't run splitscreen properly. Microsoft could be inadvertently screwing over their own studios just to sell some cheaper consoles. But again i have no way to confirm anything.
@@piccoloatburgerking Possibly. Could have also been cut in the search for "the fun" as Todd suggested.
@@AlexAdrift But that's even more confusing because why would Todd or anyone think manual flight is less fun than loading screen? The hell is even happening in that company? lmao
CE is surprisingly sturdy and flexible. The engine isn't a problem. The decisions made during the development are the problem.
If Bethesda wanted, they could optimize more, if they wanted, they could build a new engine, if they wanted they could make a new kind of game. They don’t want to.
To use the car analogy, Bethesda has a bad car because they don’t feel like getting a new or fixed up one.
A good engine cant fix bad writing lmao. I wouldn't mind star field if at least had a good a story.
Some of that story though might have been ruined by the design. Considering how many features were chopped, I wouldn't be surprised to learn about more story or characters on the cutting room floor. In my opinion, having massive edits, design choices, and limited story engagements start before pen hits paper. I don't like the writing either, I just feel the need to defend the team. Why? I've been in those meetings and have seen how so many things can strip a game of its story. Not giving them an excuse though because damn is it rough.
If we break down the issues. One of the major ones is the short comings of the creation engines. In order to go somewhere else you have to "Enter" a new cell, and for a space game where many other games have an open cell to cell design having a game where you have to enter a new cell each time doesn't help...
Next is design issues, Not to mention story boarding, why I say this is cause all the interesting things happen before the story starts unlike in skyrim or oblivion where the interesting stuff happens around you you are in a time after the big wars, after the mechs and bioweapons fight. Where they ban those weapons of war for an armstance.
Fail to make any vehicles besides the ship for planet side exploration, and even so the ship is more or less a teleporter than it is a ship.
Then not only that they fail to make any improvements to AI, or systems like stealth. They make stealth awful, the AI is dumber than a bag of bricks when it was better in two games prior. Not to mention all the other games that have much better AI that came before it.
Gun design seems to just be an attempt at futuristic weapons but make no logical sense.
The ship as before is a teleporter and doesn't really have that good of space combat when there are a dozen other games with 10x the space combat power. Even an indie game with one dev beats out a studio of 100?
So yes the Creation engine as it is without an overhaul holds them back. They need to R&D the Creation engine to make a true Creation engine 2, Not whatever they did to it. Then next is make an outline that then turns into a path tree since RPG is meant for a path tree. Not just a rail to ride...
level up mechanics and grind isn't fun, Nor does the achievement based skill unlocks do anything but draw out tedium. Rather they had made it an active skills level up system where you use the skill you gain skill level... Just like it was in the Elder scrolls.
Then next... There are not enough POIs to make it interesting. By hour 10 you have already gone through the same lab, mine, or outpost 10 times already.
Regarding your first point, you really don't need to separate the game in all those cells, they do that because it's easier for them.
Go look for some Skyrim mods that remove the cell thing for example (mod "Open cities" for Skyrim). It has been proven over and over that the blame is Bethesda's alone.
@@Salvadorzin1 Indeed, and failure to bring in those that can tinker with the engine to get the optimal use. rather they sit with what they have and maybe even lose some of their skill cause the older programmers move out and leave a hole that is rarely ever filled in.
I have heard about those mods and it sounds interesting if I can get fallout 4 to not crash ever 5 minutes then It might have the same potential
@@mightypancake2211 well, regarding Fallout 4, imo is much easier to mod than Skyrim.
In my last playthrough of Fallout 4, I used around 800 mods. Must have crashed less than 10 times in all of my 200h of gameplay.
@@Salvadorzin1 Huh. I am only up to 200 and its crashing every time I look at it wrong. Making me spam quick save a lot.
@@mightypancake2211 well, if you already don't, you must use buffout 4 in your game. It gives you crash reports and enhances Fallout 4 engine by a lot. Usually one or two mods in your entire list are the culprit.
Ofc you must be playing on PC for that.
As Morrowind was made through financial struggles I guess they all lost drive due to their success. They raked in money with Oblivion and especially Skyrim for over a decade.
"#1, why try harder?" I guess.
This reflects every aspect of their games. They don't evolve, they try to revolutionize old stuff only to create a new abomination that is even more lackluster than the old system. They aren't trimming fat, they are taking huge chunks off.
This is valid for their engine development aswell I think. They don't think: "We had clear interior exterior separation in previous games, but we want more." No, cities are interiors now, so magic skills have to go.
Yeah, their design choices are growing more bizarre by the game. ES6? Buckle up. Shit might get wild.
The entire game feels procedurally generated, and not in a good way. In the way that every single dungeon feels like the same dungeon.
Exactly. It truly is bland and soulless. You are not alone.