BSR & Garrard record turntable lubrication & adjustment
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2016
- Richard Shireby, G0OJF discusses & demonstrates lubrication & adjustment of a BSR autochanger record deck. Many BSR & Garrard models are treated in exactly the same way. Stylus tracking pressure adjustment is then demonstrated after a new stylus is fitted.
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Great video buddy, I also love bringing these old school works of art back to life.. I wish Emerson , that currently owns bsr would start making these again,, I can’t get them fixed fast enough ... people love them.
I made these turntables at The BSR Stourbridge plant . I was the float so did every job from start to finish from jigging up assembly electrical and packing .
cool
OMG lucky you I would have loved that job but I ended up as a textile finisher
@@RockinJohnny I do t know about being lucky , my mother made me go and work in a factory and I cried my eyes out ! Hard work but good wages .
@@riacarter2269 Aye it was hard in them days 40-48 hours per week for a crappy wage at the mill needless to say I was not happy either.
Got a Garrard 620s with a Curtis Mathis Receiver. Receiver works flawless but the Turntable had a few issues, Tone are wires were damaged, rca cables to preamp we're bad.,speed control was stuck, Automatic Drop would not work. And there was a horrible hum when ever the Turntable was turned on. Lubed , stuck parts, adjust the Automatic Spindle retaining clip, and made a new ground wire that I attached to the receiver ground. Replaced tone arm with a refurbished one, I will repair the other and keep as spare. Replaced RCA cables. Bought a set of fresh needles. Works like a champ now. And the ramp speeds are right on the money. Only minor adjustments needed for the stylus force and rest position in the cradle. But this baby sounds great. The console it was in is in decent shape, I got the whole thing for 9 dollars a a goodwill didn't even test it first, new the parts were worth a lot alone. I think eventually I am going to build a custom console cabinet for both components. But overall I am very happy and learned a lot along the way.
Oh my god, this brought back some memories !, Many many years ago I used to work for a slightly less than honest tv/audio repair shop after I left school, this was my stock trade "servicing" old decks like this, back then I was stripping two or three of these a day , cleaning off with meths, and re greasing with vasaline !. ( I said less than honest!).Then charging a small fortune for the repair. Damn you new fangled cd thingies killing off my skills. Hmn maybe with the great resurgence in vinyl I may be on to a winner again. Cor I can smell the servisol from here.Love your vids, keep them up and thanks.
Know anyone that will fix a reel to reel, and not fuck you over on repaires.?? dont do johns tv in reignham. I gave him a schematic and cross wired my tape head,,
out of $70.00..
Ahhh....BSR record changers. These things definitely bring back childhood memories. I have several BSR changer vids posted as well. BTW, two of my vids focus on reconditioning and rejuvenating the idler wheel as an alternative to having them re-built.. Check them out!
Very good and instructive for us to see. However, many, many BSR record changers made over the years tend to have Pickering Magnetic Cartridges, which you can easily pull out and replace the stylus effortlessly without any real difficulty.
Well I don't know what country you are in, but I've never heard of Pickering. 99% of the time they are fitted with Sonatone, Goldring or BSR cartridges here in the UK.
RIchard
@@ukfmcbradioservicingTango21 Here in Brazil some BSR turntables usually had cheaper cartridges and needles. Garrards almost all times came with a Pickering V 15 Cartridges
Hi I have just purchased an itt ka1255 with a bsr it was locked solid ie the bearing on the platter the bottom bearing the changer cam. Iv got it all cleaned and lubricated. The auto system still seems a little stiff sometimes like 1 record in 20 it may cause the deck to slow almost to a stop but other than that its great. Like you said the sound quality is mind blowing when compared to a modern cheap deck
Hoprfully you took off the auto mechanism drive cam, took off the old grease & re-lubricated as per this video. Otherwise perhaps the odd linkage underneath is dry.
richard
@@ukfmcbradioservicingTango21 Hi
many thanks for replying. I did remove the cam i think the stiffness may be coming from the tone arm as it seems a bit stiffer than the BSR on another ITT i own. I think i will continue using it for a bit to see if it free,s up if not i will investigate further and grease.
Good job. What camera do you use?
Sony TRV27E
Thank you for sharing this, is it possible to upgrade these old cartridges for better sound or are we stuck with them?
As the amplifier is designed around using a high output crystal cartridge, a different cartridge would need pre-amplification to work & of course a way of mounting an alternative cartridge would have to be devised.
Richard
Hello from Across the Pond! I now have a BSR C166 turntable where the cueing lever and mechanism do not work. The lever moves but the cueing piston doesn't move. Have you done a video on how to fix this? Thanks for the excellent and useful videos!
Christopher, I've never seen a c166 in the 38 years I've done this work! It's going to be a lubrication problem. Hopefully you can buy or download a service manual with an exploded diagram so you can clearly see how thinks are put together & linked. Chances are the offending sticking part is underneath. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Richard (UK)
Just like my old Fidelity record player (Music Master). The idler wheel 'tyre' wore out on mine which caused terrible speed stability issues and insufficient torque to operate the changer mech.
I've never known a BSR or Garrard idler to wear out. Speed variation has always been caused by the idler shaft neding lubrication, and lack of torque always because the grease in the auto cycle cam has hardened. Having said that, I'm only seeing about 40 units a year & they are always post 1964. rebuilt idlers are available from the 'states.
I’m currently trying to service my Garrard 2025 TC. I’m having an issue with the auto function - the tonearm is trying to go away from the record instead of toward it. Hoping proper lubrication will help! What type of “household oil” are you referring to?
Also, is 5.75 g of pressure too heavy? I used a household digital scale to get the weight, I’m assuming the reading should be the same (even though the contact point is about an inch off the record plate)?
Thanks so much! Newbie at work here :)
The digital pressure gauges are available for about a fiver from China etc via Aliexpress or ebay. 4g should be possible but 5.7 is better than a new Crosley @ 20g+!. Regarding the fault, it sound like something mechanical is the wrong side of something & all I suggest is you purchase a service manual, sometimes they are around for free download, and study the diagrams; it's not something I've come across.
Richard
Hello. I've got one just about the same. Mine plays slightly fast. I timed it at about 34 rpm using a a digital timer and a counter. Do you have a recommendation for a too fast condition? Is it the idler wheel? Thanks. Richard W.
I'd have said that was well within tolerance seeing as it should be 33 1/3RPM, that would make it 2% fast. I check them all with a strobe platter & have to admit they are usually spot on with that method. Obviously speed is governed by the idler & stepped motor shaft. It's easy to diagnose which, by changing speed & seeing if the same speed error is present. Record decks aimed at the mid hifi market can't be expected to be laboratory standard! As for the new turntable junk on today's market.....well....
Richard
You said toward the end of the video that you would adjust the “auto off” function off camera. I am having an issue with my BSR where the tone arm moves to the label and the tone arm still does not return and shut off. If I lift ups lightly on the tone arm and move it closer to the spindle, the auto shut off will engage and move the tone arm back to rest and turn off the player. How do you adjust the tone arm/auto shut off?
If you've done all the lubrication & removal of old grease shown in the video, then autostop trigger that stick up out of the auto return cam (which you have removed & cleaned & regreased or oiled) has become bent very slightly & therefore requires careful bending back.
Richard, G0OJF, UK
@@ukfmcbradioservicingTango21 , you were 100% correct! I bent it back slightly with a pair of pliers and now my auto shut off and changer work correctly! Thank you so much for your help sir! Cheers!!
Thank you for the video, I was wondering if you knew how to adjust the timing? Mine seems to be about 4rpm/minute fast on 33 rpm
Interesting as it isn't adjustable. The motor is synchronous, so locked to the mains frequency of 50hz in the UK, so can never be wrong. As long as the idler is clean & the idler shaft lightly lubricated, the inside rim of the platter clean & the stepped motor shaft clean then there should be no speed variation possible. Having said that I came across one running fast myself once. The idler was just touching the next speed step on the motor shaft. Adjustment of the idler height (As controlled by the speed selector knob) soon corrected matters. I think it was pretty minute, as in 0.5mm. Whip the platter off and look carefully how the idler sits on the stepped motor shaft.
Richard (UK)
I had the same problem. I raised the idler wheel height so the wheel barely touches each motor step, now it plays perfect.
Same problem, same fix as he described. Highly recommend checking this to anyone experiencing the same issue
Hiya Rick I've just watched your video you can adjust the set down point just lift the control arm set size to 7 and pull the operation lever to auto and the tone arm will go to the record
BSR started using plastic gears in the late 1970s Oh have a look at my death of a chinese record player lol Andy
Have you encountered an issue where the tonearm moves slightly outside the locking clamp, drops on the record then auto shuts off? I was having an issue where the tonearm was advancing the same distance despite the 12, 10, 7 setting. I cleaned the gear wheel, made adjustments to the set screw on the tonearm and now have the above mentioned issue.
i Have A BSR Record Player From the 1970s. Works Amazing. but I cant Get The Rubber And The Aluminum Ring To Stay Glued Flat On The Platter. any Ideas?
I've not had that happen, but would use Bostik impact adhesive & leave it drying overnight under a pile of books to keep it flat!
Richard
Maybe epoxy glue? There's a brand called JB Weld that is sold at Home Depot for $4-5. It's a double pack set, both white and black epoxy glue that you mix together. But make sure the surfaces that you are applying this glue to are clean and dry.
I like the wider headshells much better, a large number of cartridges can be used in them
That's as maybe, but this demonstration is on a 'bottom of the range' 1980's UK made BSR autochanger where the head is moulded as an integral part of the arm. The idea of different or interchangeable cartridges only comes into play far higher up the range.
Richard (UK)
I need a replacement spring for my BSR's idler wheel, do you have one I could buy?
I have no parts for any turntables here whatsoever, sorry. If I needed a spring I'd have a look on RS components website & see if there is something like. It's very rare I've come up against missing parts other than circlips
Very interesting video have you a link for that microscope Regards David
just look on ali express & search for gem microscope, usually brings them up at less than £5 delivered. Ebay too, but usually a little more money.
Richard (UK)
Is it possible to add a ground to take care of the "humming" . I have one that is part of an all in one "console" probably from the mid to late sixties. I've replaced the speakers with some pioneers to even out the tone and it has some pretty good sound... But that hummmm #newb
It's not humming because it needs a ground You should find it's grounded with the signal screen wire.
Not to be confused with hifi turntables & amplifiers sold as separates that require a ground wire between the turntable & the amplifier because the signal inputs are floating.
It's humming because all the electrolytic capacitors in the amplifier & power supply need changing. If you look at our GEC G987 pt2 video, we change 25 electrolytic capacitors in that 1969 stereogram. Cost about £16 in parts & an hour to do.
I hope you replaced the speakers with the same number of ohms impedance or you'll be running into trouble. You don't state if the amplifier is valved or solid state. Chances are that the sound was wrong because of capacitor snags. I'm worried you've put lower ohm speakers on than should be fitted & I say this because you say it now sounds better....to me it sounds like the increased speaker load is now drawing more current from tired capacitors. I don't want you to be under the misapprehension that speakers today are better than yesteryear, because I can assure you that even back in the 1930's there were loudspeakers of unbelieveable quality; and fantastic amplifiers to go with them.
rshireby@yahoo.co.uk
I think I just need a new box 😐 there's rusty all inside, yes it's solid state.
Anything over about 7 years old really needs the capacitors changing...this is why relatively modern tv sets pack up too.
Richard (UK)
I had a Garrard that lasted for over 15 years with almost daily play. Are these as durable?
Yes they are if we are comparing like for like. Garrard always had the 'edge' over BSR in finish, but are mechanically if we are talking about autochangers. You Garrard should have lasted much longer than 15 years, or perhaps you didn't lubricate it as per the instructions? All these players I'm working with were built between 1966 & 1976, so are mainly over 50 years old & after a lubrication service all go out to provide decades more service.
Richard (UK)
i had sombody tell me that 2 sided masking tape would work?
I have a BSR radiogram which has the same turntable as this, but it runs too fast at 45 and 33. Not done a test, but all records are a few bpm too quick and also too high pitched. Can I adjust the speed on this machine? If so how? Happy to pay for repair as well.
Assuming you are in the UK & the turntable was intended for UK use......The motors on these turntables are mains synchronised so can never be wrong.so in the uk, the AC mains is at 50hz. In the USA the mains frequency is 60hz, so using a turntable is a country other than what the turntable was made for is a huge snag,even putting voltage differences aside.
One thing that happens is that the idler wheel can go out of adjustment. Supposing you select 33rpm; the idler moves to that position on the stepped motor shaft....but if slightly out of adjustment, the idler may just touch the next step in the motor shaft, making it slightly the wrong speed.
The above assumes the turntable has been serviced & lubricated as per the service manual or my video instruction.
Richard
@@ukfmcbradioservicingTango21 Thank you for your advice. I am in the UK, yes, and I assume the unit is for UK use. I'm not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination and don't know if I have the skills or confidence to attempt a service as per your video. I might have a go over Christmas but am slightly afraid of damaging something!
OK - I'll have a go. How would I readjust the idler wheel if it is out of alignment? I've watched your video carefully so understand where all the components are.
@@austinralphson Some adjust from the top & others underneath. Check the model number of yours & download or order the relevant service manual. The American SAMS photofact service manuals are better/more detailed than the UK originals believe it or not. I've just had to buy one for a BSR compact unit as it has a missing spring so I needed to know where it actually goes & what it's supposed to look like.
Richard
have you ever looked into the speed accuracy turntable using an Idler Wheel? I think you might be very disappointed. Still I owned a BSR as part of a Panasonic RS 257DS and it served me well in my high school years. I'm now 60 and have moved on. But this is still a great video.
Well we do have a strobe platter to test turntables regarding speed. I prefer the HMV Stereomaster models with the Garrard 3000 deck fitted, but this 2419 was the last one they did & has the BSR P142. Having said that they are all
Idler drive anyway. At the time (in the 70's) we felt they were "crap" in comparison to the Garrard units. However, the current record player tat on the market with 20g+ tracking pressure & all plastic construction in unbelievably poor (some of those costing £299). In my opinion not of merchantable quality. Anyway, idler driven all ten models are so that's the way it is! At least the motors are synchronous . I'm sure any Audiophile's out there won't have my passion for HMV Stereomaster models anyway & will no doubt own a £1500 single speed granite product! I've done the opposite to you having bought a lovely Sharp direct drive quartz locked turnable when I was 18 which I use with a Sansui all valve amplifier & it all still works a treat. Now in my mid 50's I'm enjoying some earlier products.
Just realised this is not one of the HMV Stereomaster's but the Realistic with the BSR deck. Audio poriducts that crept into this channel were supposed to solely the ten HMV Stereomaster models from 1966 to 1973.
i thought they[bsr] stopped making cartridges by that time
The headshell on the changer in the picture looks like a headshell on a Collaro[Magnavox}
The UK were exporting huge quantities of record decks at the time, so I expects BSR & Garrard were making products for Magnavox, who weren't around in the UK.
Richard
I see that has a bsr cartridge and NOT a tetrad , did bsr start making cartridges again
I'd never heard of Tetrad so did a Google search. Turns out that in the USA they are often fitted to BSR & Zenith record decks. I've done electronics servicing 38 years here in the UK, and only ever come across one BSR or Garrard deck with a different cartridge than that specified in the service manual, that was an HMV Stereomaster 2412 which should have had a BSR C1 & had a Garrard K40A as the original had failed on one channel. I've had Sonatone 9TAHC cartridges fail & so far have been able to dismantle them & repair them on three occasions.
Richard (UK)
The main problems with those plastic platters were a little extra record wear if they were too hard and no mass to smooth out the speed and damp vibration. I wonder if anyone sold weighted mats for them, maybe a vinyl mat with 2 pounds of lead. That would have brought these cheapo versions much closer to the performance of their more expensive brethren.
Vinyl is coming back same for vintage hi-fi/home computers/arcade machines
Problem starts whey are modded badly
The only mods that happen here is higher voltage/better quality electrolytic capacitors whether it's CB / audio or whatever!
UK CB radio servicing Do you know where I can find a manual play spindle for this model?
What is the exact force for this type turntable
I set this at 7g, so not quite as low as later models....but not the 20g+ of cheap modern ones!
UK CB radio servicing thank you sir I have sharp console with bsr turntable
The BSR deck in a Sharp product will probably track down to 4g. It depends what deck & cartridge is fitted.
Richard
i use lighter fluid to remove old grease and oil, if and ONLY if very bad i use liquid wrench
The techniques demonstrated here were demonstrated & discussed with me when I did an HMV training course at their factory. You will appreciate HMV used both BSR & Garrard decks in most of their products, so their servicing techniques were relevant. I'm sure lighter fluid is great, but is unlikely to be found in a UK electronics workshop & was not mentioned in my HMV training course. I can't say I've ever heard of a product called 'liquid wrench' & I therefore assume you are commenting from another country.
Richard (UK)
I have a very similar turntable but the tone arm doesnt drop down onto the record it stops about half an inch above the record. Any advice
You have a lubrication issue. You need the turntable on the bench and see what the snag is....it's around the back of the tonearn & could be underneath or on top, but something is too dry to work.
Richard
That 45 is worth 1,500 pounds in northern England. lol
I don't think telling people to use oil on these mechanisms is very good advice , the manufacturers used grease on these mechanics for a very good reason to stop excessive wear and strain despite the case that eventually after many years it's likely to harden and will need to be redone.
I'm passing on what the manufactuter's training course told be in 1978.
Richard