Oh man. This is giving me thoughts and feelings tonight. Was just reading a particularly upsetting chapter in my apocalyptic Octavia Butler book this afternoon which has stuck with me for the rest of the day. I can’t say I understand this song’s lyric entirely, but it seems to be grappling with the same questions she is squaring off with in that book… what kind of force runs this pitiless universe, let me off this planet, how are we supposed to relate to all this human evil? Cohen’s take is sooo acid, really ironic and deeply angry… right?(?) It’s such a strong and clear perspective, really distilled… quite masterful. I do not like it though!!! Listening to yours I couldn’t understand what might be the original musical context of the HINENI/“I’m ready” part. I googled the term, and the first thing that came up was “a response of sacred and undiluted presence, a response in which the self sheds all reservations, which expands the boundaries of self, indicating a readiness to receive and respond to whatever experience is about to unfold.” - Then when you hear him do it, you’re like, oooohhh he’s saying Fuck You God… right?? It’s so bitter-seeming. What is your take on that part? What is your subtext as you sing it? It certainly doesn’t have the same darkness, especially with the vigour and energy of the guitar texture (I was thinking how crazy it is that you can play this ornate while also singing 🫨). Maybe I hear more surrender or resignation in yours? The simplicity and directness of your tonal character sits unusually against the heavy, baked-in irony of the Cohen. Maybe I’m just too naïve or optimistic - but listening to your singing I also feel like you are not as naturally aligned to this Cohenesque way of being as I may have once thought. I really love the cantor-style HINENI toward the end of Cohen, though I can’t quite sort out the relationship between the seeming earnestness of that and the rest of the song. It’s such a great piece of music and text combined, a real mood, and the perfect use of Cohen’s accumulated experiences as they manifest in his 100-year-old voice. However I feel a repulsion for the world view it represents… how do you relate to that? How does your voice relate to it?
Yes, I read the Cohen intent the same way that you do. This is probably his angriest piece, but the context I usually hear it in is that it directly precedes "Treaty" on the album. I think this has always mitigated some of the anger for me, because I feel like he's immediately succumbing to sadness as the real force of his rage wanes. Perhaps that is naive on MY part, or just a projection of my relationship with my own anger onto Leonard's intent. I've always heard the "Hineni" voicing as an expression of duality. Yes, there is a "fuck you God" intent to the song, but he's also admitting that he's dying and is resigning himself to whatever is waiting. I also think that there is some admission of the remnants of belief involved (similar to what I view as an underlying theme in "Treaty"), but I'm not completely sure if that is also a projection of my own experience. My take is more informed by the resignation that I hear than by the obvious anger, and, although I relate to his sarcasm, I don't know if I'm physically capable of interpreting it. In a bizarre way, I've always taken some comfort in this song, if only for the fact that it is clearly from the point of view of someone even more outraged about the state of the world than I am. Often I wonder why everyone isn't MORE angry, but when I listen to Cohen sing this I feel like he is carrying some of my anger for me. I'm not sure if that makes sense? I do understand your repulsion towards the world view - it is a very jarring take, and I'm not even sure that some of it isn't almost performative in a way. Some anger can be cathartic, but this isn't. It's pure venom, and it feels like my version removes most of the venom - I don't think my voice can sing that particular bent of the emotion.
I knew you would have a really considered take on all this! I don’t know Cohen’s work very well, but was he this angry when he was younger? My impression is no? So maybe at the end of his life he is encountering this kind of disappointment and resentment in a new and sharper way? You had a lot of experience with anger as a young person, so your response to those same triggers is naturally going to evolve as you do. There is a depth in your vocal colour in this song that implies knowledge of the subject, but not total involvement in it… which resonates with what you’ve said, and which I often feel is the stronger approach, that can leave more space for the audience’s response. I know what you mean about someone else carrying the anger, and also about this outrage that people are not more outraged. This book I mentioned is bringing up both of those feelings…. But perhaps because I’ve never had any real relationship to anger - feeling it is an unjustifiable expenditure of resources because I’ve never been able to believe that I could actually effect any change with mine - I’m starting to wonder if it isn’t time for me to feel and express more. It’s true the world is so fucked - Cohen is certainly responding to real things to be enraged by - and maybe the relay has to be passed between people to share the load. I don’t think either resignation or anger are inherently superior responses… I think it just depends on the context at the time, which is the best adaptive response. What is your relationship to all that at this time? I can’t tell whether my initial response to Cohen’s anger was because I felt it was childish and performative, or because I intuit maybe it’s time for me to let go of being so laissez-faire in a world that needs some angry impetus. Real head-scratcher, this song and performance! Listening again however I am blown away by what you’re doing musically, both with vocals and guitar…
@@isaiahsays I do think that Cohen got angrier as time went on. However, it could have been that his anger was more obscured by a wry humour earlier on and as he aged that humour slowly dried out in the sun until it was just the aging bones of his rage showing. I don't actually believe that you personally inhabiting righteous anger is necessarily going to make the world a better place. One of the tremendous gifts that you have (and share so freely with everyone who comes into contact with you) is your kindness and sensitivity. That is a much rarer and more precious gift than anger. This is just my opinion, of course, and you need to do what is right for you. I feel like my ability to experience the world around me is enhanced by reverting less to anger as a primary emotion/motivator. It's something that kept me going at times when I was younger, but I found it exhausting to maintain. Rage is also unreliable and dangerous, and it's so easy to end up hurting even those who you are angry FOR. I'm excited that you are hearing depth in my performance! It seems like a slow climb at times, but there is work put in every day, and it's nice to know that maybe it is paying off! ❤️
@@johnny_amish Humour drying out in the sun! What an image. I know what you mean about experiencing the world more fully as your perception is less clouded by reactivity. I feel this with other reactive emotions. I do also worry that I live too comfortably and that if I’m not feeling outraged maybe I’m not paying attention. And I do believe that kindness and sensitivity are extremely important, of course, but it’s hard to view them as strengths that can compare to the power of anger, even as I sense that anger can often become an out-of-control fire, or can just become a selfish personal vent. I guess we really do need others to mirror us back to us, to know what the best gift we have to offer is. Maybe it’s a question of who is building vs who is tearing down… or when each of us is doing which. Sometimes you have to destroy abusive systems, and sometimes you have to nurture new life. I’ve always felt like the destructive impulses were more powerful, even enviable, but I’ve also felt like they weren’t available to me. All I have is the “soft skills”….
@isaiahsays I think there are more people exploring their anger than there are people actively showing kindness. It's a tremendous and rare gift. ❤️ Maybe not everyone feels the way I do, but I hope you don't feel less than for not accessing that rage. I also know it's one thing to hear that, and another thing completely to internalize it. Part of the journey?
👍👍One of his best late-era songs.
Agreed! 🙏🐶
I love this song, and you did an awesome job singing it J!! 💖🖤💖
Thank you Kim! 🥰🙏 A great Cohen song for sure!
Oh man. This is giving me thoughts and feelings tonight. Was just reading a particularly upsetting chapter in my apocalyptic Octavia Butler book this afternoon which has stuck with me for the rest of the day. I can’t say I understand this song’s lyric entirely, but it seems to be grappling with the same questions she is squaring off with in that book… what kind of force runs this pitiless universe, let me off this planet, how are we supposed to relate to all this human evil? Cohen’s take is sooo acid, really ironic and deeply angry… right?(?) It’s such a strong and clear perspective, really distilled… quite masterful. I do not like it though!!! Listening to yours I couldn’t understand what might be the original musical context of the HINENI/“I’m ready” part. I googled the term, and the first thing that came up was “a response of sacred and undiluted presence, a response in which the self sheds all reservations, which expands the boundaries of self, indicating a readiness to receive and respond to whatever experience is about to unfold.” - Then when you hear him do it, you’re like, oooohhh he’s saying Fuck You God… right?? It’s so bitter-seeming. What is your take on that part? What is your subtext as you sing it? It certainly doesn’t have the same darkness, especially with the vigour and energy of the guitar texture (I was thinking how crazy it is that you can play this ornate while also singing 🫨). Maybe I hear more surrender or resignation in yours? The simplicity and directness of your tonal character sits unusually against the heavy, baked-in irony of the Cohen. Maybe I’m just too naïve or optimistic - but listening to your singing I also feel like you are not as naturally aligned to this Cohenesque way of being as I may have once thought.
I really love the cantor-style HINENI toward the end of Cohen, though I can’t quite sort out the relationship between the seeming earnestness of that and the rest of the song. It’s such a great piece of music and text combined, a real mood, and the perfect use of Cohen’s accumulated experiences as they manifest in his 100-year-old voice. However I feel a repulsion for the world view it represents… how do you relate to that? How does your voice relate to it?
Yes, I read the Cohen intent the same way that you do. This is probably his angriest piece, but the context I usually hear it in is that it directly precedes "Treaty" on the album. I think this has always mitigated some of the anger for me, because I feel like he's immediately succumbing to sadness as the real force of his rage wanes. Perhaps that is naive on MY part, or just a projection of my relationship with my own anger onto Leonard's intent. I've always heard the "Hineni" voicing as an expression of duality. Yes, there is a "fuck you God" intent to the song, but he's also admitting that he's dying and is resigning himself to whatever is waiting. I also think that there is some admission of the remnants of belief involved (similar to what I view as an underlying theme in "Treaty"), but I'm not completely sure if that is also a projection of my own experience. My take is more informed by the resignation that I hear than by the obvious anger, and, although I relate to his sarcasm, I don't know if I'm physically capable of interpreting it. In a bizarre way, I've always taken some comfort in this song, if only for the fact that it is clearly from the point of view of someone even more outraged about the state of the world than I am. Often I wonder why everyone isn't MORE angry, but when I listen to Cohen sing this I feel like he is carrying some of my anger for me. I'm not sure if that makes sense? I do understand your repulsion towards the world view - it is a very jarring take, and I'm not even sure that some of it isn't almost performative in a way. Some anger can be cathartic, but this isn't. It's pure venom, and it feels like my version removes most of the venom - I don't think my voice can sing that particular bent of the emotion.
I knew you would have a really considered take on all this! I don’t know Cohen’s work very well, but was he this angry when he was younger? My impression is no? So maybe at the end of his life he is encountering this kind of disappointment and resentment in a new and sharper way? You had a lot of experience with anger as a young person, so your response to those same triggers is naturally going to evolve as you do. There is a depth in your vocal colour in this song that implies knowledge of the subject, but not total involvement in it… which resonates with what you’ve said, and which I often feel is the stronger approach, that can leave more space for the audience’s response. I know what you mean about someone else carrying the anger, and also about this outrage that people are not more outraged. This book I mentioned is bringing up both of those feelings…. But perhaps because I’ve never had any real relationship to anger - feeling it is an unjustifiable expenditure of resources because I’ve never been able to believe that I could actually effect any change with mine - I’m starting to wonder if it isn’t time for me to feel and express more. It’s true the world is so fucked - Cohen is certainly responding to real things to be enraged by - and maybe the relay has to be passed between people to share the load. I don’t think either resignation or anger are inherently superior responses… I think it just depends on the context at the time, which is the best adaptive response. What is your relationship to all that at this time? I can’t tell whether my initial response to Cohen’s anger was because I felt it was childish and performative, or because I intuit maybe it’s time for me to let go of being so laissez-faire in a world that needs some angry impetus. Real head-scratcher, this song and performance! Listening again however I am blown away by what you’re doing musically, both with vocals and guitar…
@@isaiahsays I do think that Cohen got angrier as time went on. However, it could have been that his anger was more obscured by a wry humour earlier on and as he aged that humour slowly dried out in the sun until it was just the aging bones of his rage showing. I don't actually believe that you personally inhabiting righteous anger is necessarily going to make the world a better place. One of the tremendous gifts that you have (and share so freely with everyone who comes into contact with you) is your kindness and sensitivity. That is a much rarer and more precious gift than anger. This is just my opinion, of course, and you need to do what is right for you. I feel like my ability to experience the world around me is enhanced by reverting less to anger as a primary emotion/motivator. It's something that kept me going at times when I was younger, but I found it exhausting to maintain. Rage is also unreliable and dangerous, and it's so easy to end up hurting even those who you are angry FOR. I'm excited that you are hearing depth in my performance! It seems like a slow climb at times, but there is work put in every day, and it's nice to know that maybe it is paying off! ❤️
@@johnny_amish Humour drying out in the sun! What an image.
I know what you mean about experiencing the world more fully as your perception is less clouded by reactivity. I feel this with other reactive emotions. I do also worry that I live too comfortably and that if I’m not feeling outraged maybe I’m not paying attention. And I do believe that kindness and sensitivity are extremely important, of course, but it’s hard to view them as strengths that can compare to the power of anger, even as I sense that anger can often become an out-of-control fire, or can just become a selfish personal vent.
I guess we really do need others to mirror us back to us, to know what the best gift we have to offer is.
Maybe it’s a question of who is building vs who is tearing down… or when each of us is doing which. Sometimes you have to destroy abusive systems, and sometimes you have to nurture new life. I’ve always felt like the destructive impulses were more powerful, even enviable, but I’ve also felt like they weren’t available to me. All I have is the “soft skills”….
@isaiahsays I think there are more people exploring their anger than there are people actively showing kindness. It's a tremendous and rare gift. ❤️ Maybe not everyone feels the way I do, but I hope you don't feel less than for not accessing that rage. I also know it's one thing to hear that, and another thing completely to internalize it. Part of the journey?